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Trump Expected To Meet With Putin; India's P.M.'s U.S. Visit; Unintended Consequences Of Gutting USAID; Pete Hegseth Joins the NATO Defense Ministers Meeting in Brussels; Hegseth Says Trump Committed to Peace in Ukraine; Dozens Compete in Annual Snowball Fight Contest in Japan. Aired 2-2:45a ET

Aired February 13, 2025 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:35]

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN NEWSROOM.

Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin vow to negotiate an end to the Russia- Ukraine war. But don't say Kyiv will be an equal partner in deciding its own fate.

India's Prime Minister visits the U.S. as Washington prepares to announce reciprocal tariffs against just about every country.

And we'll look at how the Trump administration's plan to gut foreign aid could backfire.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Kim Brunhuber.

BRUNHUBER: U.S. President Donald Trump appears to be making a play for peace in Ukraine, although his comments indicate Kyiv may not have a major role. Trump spoke with Vladimir Putin by phone on Wednesday saying The Russian leader wanted an end to the fighting, and he expected they would meet soon, possibly in Saudi Arabia. Trump also spoke with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy who said he would likely not be involved in the first meeting with Putin and he implied the Ukrainian leader's poll numbers may not be strong enough for him to win reelection. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think they have to make peace. Their people are being killed, and I think they have to make peace.

(CROSSTALK)

I said that was not a good war to go into and I think they have to make peace. That's what I think. I think we'll probably end up at some point getting a cease fire in the not-too-distant future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: And Moscow is also touting a successful call between Presidents Trump and Putin. The Kremlin spokesperson tells CNN the conversation was, "positive and constructive." CNN's Frederick Pleitgen has the details.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Russians certainly seem pretty pleased with the way that the phone call between Russian leader Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Trump went down. The spokesman for the Kremlin, Dmitry Peskov texting CNN afterwards and saying he believes that the call was both positive and constructive as far as the Russian side is concerned.

The Russians certainly confirming a lot of the things that President Trump posted on his truth social accounts, saying that the atmosphere between the two leaders was very positive, that they had invited each other to each other's countries. The Russians also confirming that they did invite President Trump here to come to Moscow, but also that it was OK for the Russians, for administration officials from the Trump administration to come here to the Russian capital and negotiate for peace in Ukraine, that that's something that could be possible.

Now, as far as the as ending the war in Ukraine is concerned. The Russians did acknowledge that was a big topic in that phone call. However, there is one interesting nuance that we did pick up on. The Russians saying in their readout, "President Putin, in turn, mentioned the need to eliminate the root causes of the conflict and agreed with Trump that a long-term settlement can be achieved through peaceful negotiations."

Now those root causes of the conflict, that's something that the Russians have been speaking about a lot over the past couple of days, sort of indicating that they believe that finding a solution to this conflict, leading to a ceasefire, that that could be a little more difficult than the U.S. president let on before taking office, and then, of course, also after taking office as well. The Russians have been speaking a lot over the past couple of days about their red line, especially pertaining to the territory that they hold inside Ukraine.

But, of course, also territory inside Russia that the Ukrainians still hold. For instance, the spokesman for the Kremlin, Dmitry Peskov, coming out and saying that the Russians will absolutely not negotiate for the Kursk Region, that they intend to oust the Ukrainian forces from that area. One of the big issues for the Russians, of course, also, is they are absolutely against any sort of NATO membership for the Ukrainians.

Now, the positive vibe after this phone call is something that was echoed also here in political Moscow as well with several members of parliament coming out and saying that they believe that diplomacy between the United States and Russia is back.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

BRUNHUBER: NATO defense ministers are meeting in Brussels where Ukraine is taking center stage. U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth told members of the alliance, Europe must do more to ensure Ukraine's security. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETH HEGSETH, UNITED STATES DEFENSE SECRETARY: We must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. The United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[02:05:07]

BRUNHUBER: After the NATO meeting, Hegseth is scheduled to travel to Poland. Other top US officials are making the rounds in Europe this week,

including Secretary of State, Marco Rubio who will attend the Munich Security Conference which starts on Friday. I want to bring in CNN's Claire Sebastian who's live in Brussels. So Clare, with all the comments coming from the Trump administration about Ukraine, certainly plenty for them to talk about there.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kim. This is going to be a very intense second day. Yesterday we saw the Ukraine defense contact group, the so-called Ramstein Format Talks. That's a grouping of almost 50 nations who coordinate military aid for Ukraine. But today will be the NATO defense ministers meeting, and this will be, you know, as I said, a really intense meeting.

I think what we heard from Pete Hegseth yesterday was not all unexpected. I have to say, the allies here they knew that the U.S. wants the European countries to do more for defense. They knew that the U.S. wants to end the war quickly and wants to pull back on its role. But I think the bluntness with which he talked about, you know, ruling out NATO membership. Ukraine as part of a peace settlement ruling out a return to pre-2014 borders.

That was very stark. And we saw some NATO members come out and try to spin that afterwards and say, look, this doesn't necessarily contradict what we've said before, but it was clear that these were very stark comments for these NATO members. And I think what we're going to see today is emphasis on unity, emphasis on a continued commitment to Ukraine. Because certainly in the face of those kinds of comments, they need this more than ever.

And we've just heard the British defense minister come in, John Healey and say that no talks about Ukraine can happen without Ukraine. I think, a clear reference to the conversation that happened yesterday between President Trump and President Putin which the news of which broke later in the day here in Brussels. So, they are grappling with these headlines in real time as they come in while trying to reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine and to their own defense and security because several of them have said it's not just Russia that is watching and looking for signs of weakness.

They're thinking Iran, North Korea, China, all of these countries watching to see what this alliance does next. Kim?

BRUNHUBER: Absolutely. And we'll bring you the latest as we continue to monitor this story. Clare Sebastian in Brussels. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.

On the campaign trail, Donald Trump vowed to slap eye for eye tariffs on every country that puts its own levies on U.S. imports And his announcement about reciprocal tariffs could come at any time now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I may do it later on or I may do it tomorrow morning but we'll be signing reciprocal tariffs. The world has taken advantage of the United States for many years, they've charged us massive tariffs that we haven't charged them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: This latest threat comes the same week the Trump administration announced 25 percent tariffs on all steel and aluminum imports, starting a month from now. And these actions are raising fears of a wider trade war and making inflation worse. President Trump's latest round of tariffs comes as Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is set to visit the White House in the coming hours.

The Trump administration has complained that India's high tariffs lock out U.S. imports. Modi's visit comes a week after Indian migrants were seen in shackles as they were deported from the U.S. We get more now from CNN's Kristie Lu Stout.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is in the United States and will soon meet with President Donald Trump, a man he has called a "true friend." So, observers are looking out to see whether their true friendship can help overcome concerns about trade and immigration and to see whether, as reported, Modi will meet with Trump's billionaire advisor Elon Musk.

So far, India has escaped the threat of Trump tariffs, and Modi wants to keep it that way. Now, Sources tell Reuters that Modi plans to meet Trump in Washington during his two-day visit with tariff concessions in hand. Concessions that could boost U.S. exports to India and avert a potential trade war. In the past, Trump has called India, "very big abuser on trade." But Modi is keeping the tone positive.

On Wednesday, he took to social media to post this. "Landed in Washington, D.C. a short while ago, looking forward to meeting POTUS, Donald Trump and building upon the India-USA comprehensive global strategic partnership. Our nations will keep working closely for the benefit of our people and for a better future for our planet." But it's not clear what Modi can offer in terms of migration.

Now the number of Indian nationals entering the U.S. illegally has surged dramatically in the last few years. That's according to U.S. government data. And last week, the U.S. Border Patrol chief posted this video of around 100 Indian migrants being deported in shackles. Several deportees are seen shuffling up a ramp with chains on their wrists and ankles. This video sparked outrage and angry protests across India, with some protesters burning an effigy of President Trump.

Out during his trip to the U.S., Modi reportedly is also set to meet Elon Musk, the world's richest man and "special U.S. government employee."

[02:10:09]

Sources tell Reuters that they're likely to discuss Starlink, that's Musk's satellite broadband service and plans to launch in India. It's not clear when Tesla's future in India will also be up for discussion. Now, there is a lot at stake in the greater U.S.-India relationship. India is a strategic partner of the United States. It's a member of the quad Alliance and a counter to China. It remains to be seen how Modi and Trump will capitalize on their friendship to reconcile their differences during this visit.

Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.

BRUNHUBER: Elon Musk addressed global leaders at the World Government Summit in Dubai a short time ago and said the Trump administration is looking to reduce America's influence on the world stage. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, TESLA MOTORS: With the new administration, there's less interest in interfering with the affairs of other countries. I think we should, in general, leave other countries to their own business. Basically, America should mind its own business, you know, rather than push for regime change all over the place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The tech billionaire who is leading Donald Trump's department of government efficiency appeared virtually for the third and final day of the summit.

According to multiple sources, mass firings have begun at U.S. federal agencies as part of the Trump administration's plans to shrink the federal workforce. Until now, employees across all agencies had only been placed on administrative leave at the same time, their unions have taken the administration's so-called buyout offers to the courts. But on Wednesday, a judge gave President Trump the green light to go ahead with those deferred resignation offers.

At least 65,000 workers had agreed to the exit package as of last week before the deadline to accept the buyout or risk being laid off was paused.

U.S. Senate will take up another of Donald Trump's most controversial Cabinet picks in the coming hours. The vote today on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s nomination to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. Some senators have voiced concerns about Kennedy's vaccine skepticism, but he's apparently won over several key Republicans and his confirmation is expected.

On Wednesday, the Senate confirmed President Trump's pick for Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, voting mostly along party lines. Gabbard's nomination had drawn early skepticism from some Republicans over her lack of support for Ukraine and her 2017 meeting with former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

All right. This just into CNN. Merger talks that would have created the world's third largest automaker had been called off. Honda and Nissan announced in December they would begin the talks over the following six months, but after just a few weeks, the conversations appeared to stall. The two Japanese car makers were hoping to combine the resources to face the growing competition from Chinese car companies like BYD.

President Trump is moving to purge some U.S. government agencies, but that push could backfire on a key campaign promise to reduce migration to the U.S. We'll explain after the break. Stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: Emergency operations are underway after a deadly blast at a shopping mall in central Taiwan. Have a look.

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BRUNHUBER: You saw their footage shot by witnesses showing window panels and other de falling to the street while cars sit in traffic. Now this happened in the city of Taichung. At least five people were killed in what's thought to be a gas explosion inside the department store and seven others injured. The Taichung Fire Department shared this video from the 12th floor of the building where construction was underway on a food court. You can see their twisted metal hanging from the ceiling and covering the floor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The crackdown on anti-government protests in Bangladesh last summer may have left up to 1400 people dead. That's from the U.N. Human Rights Office, which says thousands of others were injured. The U.N. report says many victims were shot by security forces, often from point blank range. In some cases, the security forces were engaged in summary executions and torture, often with the knowledge of political leaders.

The top U.N. human rights official said this after the report was released on Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are reasonable grounds to believe that certain crimes against humanity have been committed directed against protesters and their supporters.

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BRUNHUBER: Now, the protest was led by students angry over quotas for government jobs, and they eventually forced the former prime minister to flee to India.

President Donald Trump made reducing illegal migration the cornerstone of his presidential campaign, but now some of his moves to gut government agencies and eliminate their staff could work against that pledge. Stefano Pozzebon has the story from Colombia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): It's lunch time in Alexandra's home. Today is chicken but food is not always guaranteed for these family where she is the only provider for her two children, a younger sister and her mother. In 2019, Alexandra left her native Venezuela alone, walking to Colombia with other migrants, while her family stayed behind and joined a few months later. Now in Cali, she's looking to hit the road again.

ALEXANDRA GUERRA, VENEZUELAN MIGRANT (through translator): Other countries offer better opportunities. After six years, I still don't have a formal job here, and now, with these decisions, it will be even worse.

[02:20:04]

POZZEBON (voice-over): These decisions are edicts from U.S. President Donald Trump that flipped Alexandra's life upside down, 2400 miles south of Washington. She was applying to a safe mobility program to legally move to the U.S. After two interviews, UNHCR told her by email, the program was shut down. 10 days later, a tailoring course she was taking was also halted after a stop work order for USAID. The U.S. agency that was funding the course.

This is our classroom now, sewing machines untouched. Nobody at these computers.

POZZEBON (on camera): All of this machinery was purchased more than 20 years ago with funds from USAID and since January 27 it stays like this, still unused. Now the worry is that many of the migrants who were coming here to learn a job and find work will need to go somewhere else to find it, maybe to the United States.

POZZEBON (voice-over): The project director doesn't know if the courses will ever come back. The paradox, he says, is that these are the kind of projects the White House should fund if it really wants to reduce migration. Alexandra's classmates were mostly Venezuelans who settled in Colombia and here would gain qualifications to enter the job market, and now they're all weighing their options.

POZZEBON (on camera): What's most interesting about listening to these stories is that this place had become a community center, they would not only receive an education, but also access to psychologists, network of contacts, opportunities, social workers, that in the process of migration is key, and that's why they feel that all of that effort has now gone in vain.

AYARITH OLIMPIO, VENEZUELAN RESIDENT (through translator): My whole family hangs on this decision. This is personal. Migrants are not just a face you see on social media. We are people.

POZZEBON (voice-over): Feeling betrayed by the White House, Ayarith sees no future here and no good options ahead.

Stefano Pozzebon, CNN, Cali, Colombia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: All right. Still to come, the president of the U.S. and Russia had an important phone call. Look at what they discussed about the future of the conflict in Ukraine. That's coming up next. Please stay with us.

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[02:27:31]

BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN NEWSROOM.

The U.S. President is pushing ahead to end the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. President Trump says negotiations to end the war will start immediately. This comes after what he said was a productive call with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday, and the step he says in the right direction. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think we're on the way to getting peace. I think President Putin wants peace, and President Zelensky wants peace, and I want peace. I just want to see people stop getting killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Meantime, Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskyy says he's placing his full confidence in the United States to help secure peace in the region. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): We believe that America's trend, together with us and all our partners, is enough to pressure Russia and Putin into peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: And just moments ago, NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte spoke ahead of the NATO meeting in Brussels and here's what he believes a peace deal has to include.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: It clearly has give that impression that it was a successful phone call. We all want peace in Ukraine. Obviously, we have to make sure that Ukraine is in the best possible proposition. It is crucial that when a peace deal is struck, that a peace deal is enduring that Putin knows that this is the end, that he can never again try to capture a piece of Ukraine.

So that has to be part of those negotiations. And no doubt that is also on the mind of President Trump and the American team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: All right. I want to take you live now to Brussels where the NATO defense ministers are meeting. And we're listening to U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

HEGSETH: -- real threat to the continent. This aggression needs to be a wakeup call. Americans are an active part of this alliance, as we have been and will continue to. But when it comes to defense spending, even two percent of GDP is not enough. Three and four and ultimately, as President Trump has said, five percent of defense spending is critical. A realization that there is a Russian war machine that has sought to take more and more land in Ukraine, and standing up against that is an important European responsibility.

And of course, the United States has been there for a long time as well. My role as a representative of the United States is to speak realistically about the course of that conflict, and I think you saw from President Trump yesterday, who himself is the best negotiator on the planet, bringing two sides together to find a negotiated peace, which is ultimately what everyone wants.

[02:30:03]

So, I look forward to the ministerial today with our NATO allies to have honest conversations about where we are, but to bring peace on the continent, ensure that Europe steps forward in the leadership, in leadership as far as security guarantees, and that America is right alongside our allies in NATO to ensure we remain strong and that this conflict comes to an end.

I'll take one question. Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn't your plan for Ukraine actually a betrayal of all the Ukrainian soldiers who staked their lives defending the whole of their country? And isn't it just a reward for dictators who use military strength to take what they want?

HEGSETH: Well, that's your language, not mine, certainly not a betrayal. As I said to our allies yesterday, we recognize the incredible commitment that has been made over many years. And no country, as the President Trump has pointed out, has made a larger commitment to the Ukrainian mission than the United States of America, north of $300 billion. So the United States has invested in stabilizing those frontlines after the aggression of Russia. There is no betrayal there. There is a recognition that the whole world and the United States is invested and interested in peace, a negotiated peace, as President Trump has said, stopping the killing. And so that will require both sides recognizing things they don't want to. That's why I think the world is fortunate to have President Trump, only he at this moment could convene the powers that be to bring peace, and that's a welcome sign.

My job as the defense secretary, working alongside NATO, is to ensure that the defense capabilities of this alliance are as strong and robust as possible to deter any future aggression on the continent. That's our role to be leaders in NATO, and that's what we'll continue to do. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: News conference later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWSROOM": All right, we're listening there to U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, again, emphasizing that Europe has to up its efforts to support Ukraine and that Ukraine has to have realistic demands when it comes to peace. I want to go to Kyiv now. Michael Bociurkiw is a Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council and Former Spokesperson for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.

Thank you so much for being here with us again. So you were listening in to Hegseth there, again sort of emphasizing some of the messages that we've heard already. What do you make of his comments?

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY & COOPERATION IN EUROPE: Good to be with you, Kim. Well, of course, it's a betrayal as the reporter suggested because what has happened here in the past 24 hours is, basically, the Trump Administration has taken away all of the bargaining power of Kyiv in any potential peace negotiations. How? By telling the Russians that there's no way Ukraine is going to go back to pre-2014 borders, that it has to drop its NATO bid, and that the United States will not come here and defend Ukraine, put boots on the ground.

So, that puts Ukraine in a very, very weak, position. I don't -- if you don't -- if that's not a betrayal, I don't know what is.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, it's interesting, Donald Trump's former National Security Adviser John Bolton called all of this basically the ensemble of the comments, everything that you outlined there, said that that meant essentially Trump is surrendering to Putin. It sounds like you kind of agree there.

BOCIURKIW: Yeah, sure. And you know, I probably said this to you before, Kim, is I don't think there's any floor to Mr. Trump's subservience to Mr. Putin. When the two of them meet, Mr. Putin, I think, will be in a much stronger negotiating position. I'll tell you what really, really worries people here, including myself, is if push comes to shove between the United States and Kyiv, Kyiv could very well -- sorry, United States could very well withdraw, for example, Intel that it gives Kyiv, targeting information on where Kyiv could strike inside of Russia.

And the other thing that worries us, of course, is that it could lift that Patriot Defense System, the one that protects Ukrainian cities like Kyiv every night. Now also, in the past 24 hours or so, Mr. Trump's Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said, referred to Mr. Putin as a man of peace. Well, I can tell you that overnight Russia targeted Ukraine with no less than 140 Iranian-built drones. That doesn't sound like a man headed to a peace negotiation table.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah. Both the White House and the Kremlin are sort of touting the positive nature of the call between the two leaders, so I'm wondering what the view is there in Ukraine. After all, Trump spoke to Putin before picking up the phone to Zelenskyy and the tone of the comments, I mean, Ukraine has feared being sidelined when it comes to this peacemaking, that seems to be coming to pass here.

BOCIURKIW: Yeah. And you know, in the aftermath of that call, Dmitry Peskov, Mr. Putin's spokesperson, said that no to a land swap as Mr. Zelenskyy suggested.

[02:35:00]

He, I think, repeated that Mr. Zelenskyy is an illegitimate leader. So, they're repeating the refrain. And I also would say this is that the Ukrainians, after all that's happened, probably feel very, very alone right now. But I think they knew this was all coming. They did put their stock in the rules-based international order, which I think is in a free fall right now. They did put their stock in what the Europeans and what the Americans are saying. But at the end of the day, I -- there's more and more of a feeling here that they're going to have to defend themselves because they've spilt so much blood in this war that there's no going back. So fortunately, just quickly, they have a very robust drone production here. They've learned how to use a lot of new equipment which is here on the ground, so that could keep them in the game a little bit longer, but certainly not forever.

BRUNHUBER: And certainly, the emphasis now, as the defense ministers are talking and meeting there, Europe will certainly have to step up and try and fill that huge void that's being left by the U.S.

We'll have to leave it there, unfortunately. Michael Bociurkiw, thank you so much for being here with us.

BOCIURKIW: Thank you for having me.

BRUNHUBER: All right, we'll be back with plenty more here on "CNN Newsroom." Stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: In Japan, dozens of people turned the hassle caused by record amounts of snow into good, clean, and cold fun. Now have a look here. This isn't your standard snowball fight. This actually has rules. About 120 teams were whittled down to just two during the event, now in its 35th year. Those two teams then had two minutes to throw as many snowballs as they could at each other. Of course, participants had plenty of ammo. More than three meters or 10 feet of snow had accumulated in the region on the day of the event. It's so fun (ph).

Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Kim Brunhuber. "World Sport" is next. Then I'll be back in 15 minutes with more "CNN Newsroom."

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