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Trump Details Conversations with Russian, Ukrainian Counterparts on The Possible End of War; Indian P.M. Visits Washington; New Study Finds More Health Benefits for Ozempic; Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees for 2025 Revealed. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired February 13, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, welcome to all of you watching us around the world, I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN Newsroom.

U.S. President Donald Trump details his phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin and touts their efforts to end the war in Ukraine.

India's prime minister visits the U.S. as Washington prepares to announce reciprocal tariffs against just about every country.

And how Trump's push to purge some U.S. government agencies could backfire on a key campaign promise to reduce migration to the U.S.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Kim Brunhuber.

BRUNHUBER: It is 9 a.m. in Brussels, Belgium, where NATO defense ministers are meeting under a cloud of uncertainty as U.S. President Donald Trump has effectively upended three years of policy on Ukraine.

European leaders are being told they need to do more to ensure Ukraine's security as the Trump administration pulls the U.S. back from its leading role. Here's what U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said as he arrived at the NATO summit just a short time ago. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: There is a recognition that the whole world and the United States is invested and interested in peace, a negotiated peace, as President Trump has said, stopping the killing. And so that will require both sides recognizing things they don't want to.

That's why I think the world is fortunate to have President Trump. Only he at this moment could convene the powers that be to bring peace. And that's a welcome sign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Trump says he spoke by phone to Vladimir Putin on Wednesday with the Russian leader calling for an end to the war.

The U.S. president predicted a ceasefire in the not-too-distant future. A social media post praised the Russian leader for agreeing with Trump's common-sense approach to end the fighting.

President Trump also spoke with Ukraine's leader but suggested Volodymyr Zelenskyy wouldn't be invited to an initial meeting with Vladimir Putin to discuss the conflict. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'll be dealing with President Putin largely on the phone. And we ultimately expect to meet. In fact, we expect that he'll come here and I'll go there.

And we're going to meet also probably in Saudi Arabia. The first time we'll meet in Saudi Arabia, see if we can get something done.

REPORTER: Do you view Ukraine as an equal member of this peace process?

TRUMP: It's an interesting question. I think they have to make peace. Their people are being killed. And I think they have to make peace.

I said that was not a good war to go into. And I think they have to make peace. That's what I think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: And Trump also echoed comments from his defense secretary that it was unrealistic for Ukraine to join NATO or return to its pre- 2014 borders.

I want to bring in CNN's Clare Sebastian who is live in Brussels. So last hour we heard from U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Take us through what he said and the reaction from NATO allies to all those new comments made about Ukraine by the Trump administration.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Kim. We've heard from him a couple of times again this morning.

Really sort of number one, talking up the U.S., as he says, his commitment to NATO. Number two, the idea that defense spending needs to be much higher.

He repeated the point that he made on Wednesday that two percent is not enough. And the U.S. really thinks 5 percent is the number that everyone should be going for.

And then he also talked up President Trump's negotiating skills. He says he's the greatest negotiator on Earth. He's the one person who can bring these two sides together to bring peace in the conflict with Ukraine. But look, in terms of reactions, I think we definitely saw a sort of

collective NATO, not so much reaction, but almost a paralysis yesterday in the face of his comments, particularly when it comes to ruling out NATO membership for Ukraine as part of a peace settlement and ruling out returning to its pre-2014 borders.

Look, I don't think anyone, not even the Biden administration, was thinking that NATO membership for Ukraine would be imminent. But spelling it out in those terms, many here interpreted as sort of really giving way to one of Moscow's key demands in this war was that Ukraine should never join NATO. And while Pete Hegseth didn't say never, he didn't put a time frame on it.

And I think this morning, off the back of those phone calls that President Trump had with Putin for 90 minutes and again after that with Zelenskyy, but in particular the one with Putin off the back of those comments from Hegseth, there is a concern, as you saw there being questioned to Trump in the Oval Office, that Ukraine might be left out of this process.

[03:05:10]

And we've heard a couple of officials this morning, the NATO Secretary General and the U.K. Defense Minister talking up how they think Ukraine should be the one to choose its future. Take a listen to the U.K. Defense Minister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN HEALEY, U.K. DEFENSE MINISTER: There can be no negotiation about Ukraine without Ukraine. And Ukraine's voice must be at the heart of any talks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: So, you know, it's a fine line to tread here for these defense ministers. They need to keep up the alliance with the United States. It is at this point about half of the NATO economy, the Secretary General said yesterday.

And while it is saying that it wants to pull back, that it has other priorities in the world, like the Indo-Pacific, it wants Europe to take more responsibility for its own security.

These countries cannot afford to risk that relationship. But on the other hand, it is clear that some of the comments yesterday did sort of upend the policy of NATO in this three-year-old war.

So they now have to grapple with how to sort of pull those threads together and present a cohesive front because, of course, they know that not just Russia, but other countries around the world are looking for signs of weakness in this alliance, Kim.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, treading a fine line, exactly as you said. And we'll keep monitoring this meeting and bring our viewers the latest as it comes. Clare Sebastian in Brussels, I appreciate that. Thanks so much. Now, some experts believe President Trump ended up giving away a lot

of negotiating leverage in his conversation with Putin. Former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt spoke with CNN on Wednesday. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARL BILDT, CO-CHAIR, EUROPEAN COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS AND FORMER SWEDISH PRIME MINISTER: Before the start of talks, the U.S. made very major concessions, concessions of the very major issues. The territorial integrity of Ukraine is thrown away. The NATO option is thrown away. They conceded the key Russian demands.

Does that mean that Putin is going to say, oh, fine, OK, glory, hallelujah, peace in our time?

No, that means that Putin is going to press further demands. But I mean, for European ears, this sounds like Munich. It sounds like sort of two big leaders wanted to have peace in our time. Far away country of which they know little.

They're preparing to make a deal over the heads of that particular country. And a lot of Europeans know how that particular movie ended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Now, Bildt was referring to the 1938 Munich conference, which rubber stamped the Nazi invasion of former Czechoslovakia. And the agreement signed in Munich became a synonym for appeasement.

Well, Donald Trump is about to fire yet another shot in his tariff battle with trade partners while fulfilling a campaign promise. He's expected to impose reciprocal tariffs on every country that puts its own levies on U.S. imports. And that announcement is expected later today.

Now, this latest threat comes the same week the Trump administration announced 25 percent tariffs on all steel and aluminum imports starting a month from now. These actions are raising fears of a wider trade war that could make inflation worse.

Trump's latest round of tariffs comes as Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is set to visit the White House in the coming hours. The Trump administration has complained that India's high tariffs lock out U.S. imports.

Modi's visit comes a week after Indian migrants were seen in shackles as they were deported from the US. We get more now from CNN's Kristie Lu Stout.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is in the United States and will soon meet with President Donald Trump, a man he has called a, quote, "true friend."

So observers are looking out to see whether their true friendship can help overcome concerns about trade and immigration. And to see whether, as reported, Modi will meet with Trump's billionaire advisor, Elon Musk.

So far, India has escaped the threat of Trump tariffs and Modi wants to keep it that way. Now sources tell Reuters that Modi plans to meet Trump in Washington during his two-day visit with tariff concessions in hand. Concessions that could boost U.S. exports to India and avert a potential trade war.

In the past, Trump has called India, quote, "very big abuser on trade."

But Modi is keeping the tone positive. On Wednesday, he took to social media to post this quote, "landed in Washington, D.C., a short while ago, looking forward to meeting POTUS Donald Trump and building upon the India-USA comprehensive global strategic partnership. Our nations will keep working closely for the benefit of our people and for a better future for our planet," unquote.

But it's not clear what Modi can offer in terms of migration. Now, the number of Indian nationals entering the U.S. illegally has surged dramatically in the last few years. That's according to U.S. government data.

And last week, the U.S. Border Patrol chief posted this video of around 100 Indian migrants being deported in shackles. Now several deportees are seen shuffling up a ramp, chains on their wrists and ankles.

[03:10:03]

Now, this video sparked outrage and angry protests across India, with some protesters burning an effigy of President Trump. During his trip to the U.S., Modi reportedly is also set to meet Elon Musk, the world's richest man and, quote, "special U.S. government employee."

Sources tell Reuters that they are likely to discuss Starlink, that's Musk's satellite broadband service, and plans to launch it in India. It's not clear when Tesla's future in India will also be up for discussion.

Now, there is a lot at stake in the greater U.S.-India relationship. India is a strategic partner of the United States. It's a member of the Quad Alliance and a counter to China.

It remains to be seen how Modi and Trump will capitalize on their friendship to reconcile their differences during this visit.

Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Emergency operations are underway after a deadly blast at a shopping mall in central Taiwan. Now look at this.

(VIDEO PLAYING) You can see there the footage shot by witnesses showing window panels and other debris falling to the street while cars sit in traffic. Now, this happened in the city of Taichung.

At least five people were killed in what's thought to be a gas explosion inside a department store. At least seven others are injured.

The Taichung Fire Department shared this video from the 12th floor of the building where construction was underway on a food court. You can see the twisted metal hanging from the ceiling and covering the floor.

Merger talks that would create the world's third largest carmaker have been called off. Honda and Nissan announced their talks in December along with their junior partner Mitsubishi. But Nissan says the companies have now agreed to terminate the deal.

The two larger automakers will still collaborate on some projects including electric vehicles. Companies were hoping the merger would give them more resources to face growing competition from China.

All right. Still to come, growing divisions over DOGE. Despite calls for bipartisanship on Capitol Hill, Republicans and Democrats are at odds over the direction of Donald Trump's Department of Government efficiency.

About that and more coming up. Stay with us.

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[03:15:00]

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BRUNHUBER: According to multiple sources, mass firings have begun at U.S. federal agencies as part of the Trump administration's plans to shrink the federal workforce.

Until now, employees all across agencies had only been placed on administrative leave. Meanwhile, a judge has given President Trump the green light to go ahead with so-called buyout offers.

CNN's Paula Reid picks up the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: A big win for the Trump administration as it struggles to defend the president's executive orders and new policies in court.

A Clinton-appointed federal judge in Boston has ruled that the administration can proceed with its federal buyout plan for workers, so-called deferred resignation plan.

Now, unions had brought a challenge on behalf of their members for this plan, arguing that two weeks' notice for workers to accept was just not enough time to make this kind of life-changing decision.

They also challenged whether the administration actually has the authority to engage in this kind of offer and whether employees would actually be paid through September as promised.

But the judge has ruled that the unions don't have what is called standing. This is a technicality.

They don't have the proper right to bring this lawsuit and that claims of this kind should be brought through a different venue. So it is likely that this will be appealed.

Also likely that the unions might just revise their lawsuit, perhaps have an individual member bring it and possibly in a different jurisdiction.

But this is again, this is really one of the first significant wins for the Trump administration as it has had many of its policies challenged. And almost all of those challenges have resulted in the policy either being paused or blocked, which has resulted in the president and Elon Musk attacking members of the judiciary.

So it'll be interesting to see now that they have had this one significant win, if they change their tune.

Paula Reid, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: The efforts by Donald Trump and Elon Musk to gut federal agencies and rein in government spending are creating tensions on Capitol Hill. Lawmakers held their first subcommittee hearing on the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, which is led by Musk.

Republicans said the purpose was to focus on the department's mission of cutting federal waste. But Democrats were more focused on the heavy-handed approach Musk has taken in upending the federal government and its workforce.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GREGORIO CASAR (D-TX): We're not looking into Elon Musk's $8 million a day. This subcommittee, chaired by Marjorie Taylor Greene in the House of Republicans, is looking into your grandmother's $65 a day.

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): He sat there in the Oval Office yesterday, and he admitted that he was lying and he was using his propaganda machine to do it when he said that we sent millions of dollars to Gaza for condoms. That was a lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Senate Democrats are pushing for an independent watchdog investigation into DOGE. They want the Government Accountability Office to look into the legality and scope of the agreement, allowing Elon Musk and his aides to access sensitive or classified information as part of their work to shrink the federal workforce.

A letter from Democrat Chris Murphy specifically singles out DOGE's special government employees, writing, quote: "While the designation absolves Musk and his aides of some government requirements that apply to most federal employees, it doesn't absolve them of all obligations, nor does such a designation afford Musk and his aides carte blanche access to government data and servers."

[03:20:06]

Meanwhile, Musk defended his DOGE efforts while speaking at the World Government Summit earlier. The unelected tech billionaire with no prior experience in government appeared virtually for the third and final day of the summit in Dubai, and Musk was critical of the sheer number of U.S. federal agencies. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: There's roughly 450 federal agencies of one kind or another. That's more agencies. That's almost an average of two agencies per year since the formation of the United States.

So, I mean, how many agencies do you really need to run a country? Like 99? Not 450, that's for sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: All right, I want to bring in David Gilbert, a reporter covering extremism and misinformation for "WIRED," and he joins me now from Cork, Ireland. Thank you so much for being here with us.

So, we have here untrained strangers, some as young as 19, rooting around insensitive federal data with few checks and balances. I mean, what could go wrong, right?

DAVID GILBERT, EXTREMISM AND MISINFORMATION REPORTER, "WIRED": Yes, it's interesting because Elon Musk is talking about maximal transparency now in the government, and he's talking about cutting agencies by, you know, by three quarters. Yet he has no experience of working in government.

All he has ever done is profit to a huge extent from government, especially the U.S. government. And the people he has brought in, the engineers that are now rooting around in these complex, highly intertwined systems and accessing personal data of millions of Americans, he kind of defended them saying that their age doesn't really matter.

But it's not so much their age is the issue. It's the fact that they just have zero experience, not only of working in government, but of any real life work experience, really.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, absolutely. And their experience, I mean, they're mostly software engineers doing all this. So, from a technology perspective, do we have any idea what they're actually doing or how they're doing it?

GILBERT: On a granular level, we don't. We kind of have had indications that they are, well, initially, you know, the DOGE team denied that these engineers were being given right access to the data, which allows them to manipulate the data and do more with it.

We actually know now through court records that they were actually given that, or at least one was given that access. And from the sources that we have been speaking to, these engineers have been granted high level clearance to access very personal data.

Now, exactly what they're doing with it is unclear, but we reported earlier this week that they are building an A.I. system at the GSA, for example. And whether they're feeding the information into that A.I. system is unclear. How that A.I. system works is unclear.

So, again, Trump or Elon Musk claim that they're being open and transparent about what's happening is just not true, because no one knows what's happening inside these agencies and what these young engineers are actually doing with the information that, you know, millions of Americans trust that the government keeps safe.

BRUNHUBER; Yes, and all of that, whether it's these people having access or what they're doing with it and feeding it into A.I., for example, all of that raises so many red flags. I mean, using that Silicon Valley move fast and break things ethos, what are the dangers that all of the sensitive data could get leaked or taken advantage of by criminals or by America's enemies overseas?

GILBERT: Yes, there's so many options or possibilities of what could happen. I've been speaking to former federal government I.T. workers, people who, you know, were there right at the beginning of the development of the U.S. digital services.

And they've said basically what they're trying to do is take operational control over the government by having access to this data, they can do whatever they want.

The problem is that if you look at the backgrounds of the engineers that are doing it, the experience that they have, the evidence shows, and it's out there on the internet, even though they have tried to scrub some of it, that their abilities and their experience in coding is just not up to scratch.

And especially when they're given access to these highly sensitive systems. And that means that mistakes that they made, you know, when they were undergraduates in college, you know, was something of a learning experience.

But if you're doing that inside of government, it opens up the possibility that you leave doors or backdoors open for, you know, the highly skilled hackers from China or Russia or other nation states to come in and take advantage.

[03:25:03] The other option, of course, is that just this data just gets leaked publicly by accident because they're not taking the right proportions. Because again, they do not have the experience in these systems to properly protect it.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, and then obviously the other concern here is that Elon Musk has billions of dollars of contracts with the federal government and there could be plenty of conflicts of interests there.

Now, over all of the issues that you mentioned and the one I just did as well, obviously plenty of concern in Congress. Democrats have asked the Government Accountability Office to investigate. So do you think the GAO or the courts or Congress will eventually rein in DOGE? How do you think this all shakes out?

GILBERT: It's hard to say. I think so far we've seen the courts try their best to rein in Doge, but we've also seen Elon Musk and Donald Trump push back against those courts and wage their own war. You know, they've been calling it a judicial coup just because some judges don't agree with them.

Congress, again, has been relatively weak in terms of being able to do anything to stop the day-to-day, you know, access of these systems and the GAO similarly. So I think it's very -- at the moment, it's hard to see how this gets stopped, how the access that these people have is cut off.

But I think that speaking to the people inside these companies that are still there that haven't either taken the buyout or been fired, I think it's those people who are standing up and trying to raise the alarm could potentially be the best hope right now because they are, you know, they've decades of service in the government and they want to help protect the systems that they've built and help protect democracy. And they're trying to do that in any way they can.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, unfortunately, they'll probably be dismissed, those whistleblowers, as just emblems of the swamp that they're trying to drain here. But certainly what they're doing is unprecedented and the implications, as you say, could be enormous.

We'll have to leave it there. David Gilbert, thank you so much for speaking with us.

GILBERT: Thanks for having me.

BRUNHUBER: All right, still to come, more on the relationship between U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, what experts have to say on their political bond. Stay with us.

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[03:30:00]

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KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to "CNN Newsroom." I'm Kim Brunhuber. Let's check on some of today's top stories.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is in Washington for a meeting today with President Donald Trump at the White House. The meeting comes as Trump is expected to unveil another round of tariffs and a week after Indian migrants were seen in shackles as they were deported from the U.S.

U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is meeting with his NATO counterparts today in Brussels. Many of those attending say any negotiations to end the war in Ukraine must actually include Ukraine. Hegseth denies the U.S. is betraying Kiev by working with Moscow on a timetable for talks.

And both the U.S. and Russia are touting a seemingly productive call between their presidents. The two leaders discussed Ukraine, the Middle East, artificial intelligence, and other matters. As a result, President Trump says negotiations to end the conflict in Ukraine will start immediately.

CNN's Brian Todd has more details on their conversation, as well as the recent history of U.S.-Russia relations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We had a great call, and it lasted for a long time.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump sounding confident after a nearly 90-minute call with Vladimir Putin, saying he and the Russian president agreed to work together to try to end the war in Ukraine and --

TRUMP: Do we expect that he'll come here and I'll go there?

TODD (voice-over): Trump once again embracing a relationship fraught with potential danger.

RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT EMERITUS, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: The phase in which Vladimir Putin was a pariah from the American perspective, that seems to be over.

TODD (voice-over): Trump's predecessor, Joe Biden, had not even spoken to Putin in almost three years. And an American president hasn't set foot in Russia since Barack Obama went to a G20 summit in St. Petersburg in 2013. But Trump's approach to Putin has always been distinct.

EVELYN FARKAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE MCCAIN INSTITUTE: We have seen time and time again that he has tried to somehow stay on the good side of President Putin.

TODD (voice-over): That dates back to before Trump was first elected president, when he touted his ability to strike deals with the former KGB lieutenant colonel.

TRUMP: I think I'd get along very well with Vladimir Putin. TODD (voice-over): Part of that mindset, analysts say, stems from Trump's affinity for strongmen.

MAX BOOT, SR. FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Trump has seemingly never met a dictator he doesn't like, and not just like, but he seeks to emulate, which is the scariest thing of all.

TODD (voice-over): But many analysts believe Putin has played Donald Trump from the start, with flattery and favors, deftly using his training as a spymaster.

SAMUEL CHARAP, SR. POLITICAL ANALYST, RAND CORP.: He does, at least reportedly, employ some of the tactics he learned when he was in the KGB in terms of assessing, trying to find weaknesses in those who he's talking to and trying to exploit them.

TODD (voice-over): Helsinki, July 2018. At a high-stakes summit, Putin gifts Trump a custom soccer ball in front of the media.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Mr. President, I'll give this ball to you, and the other ball is in your court.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

TODD (voice-over): When the ball was in his court, Trump, in the minds of many, dropped it. He inexplicably let Putin off the hook for Russia's 2016 election meddling.

TRUMP: I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today.

[03:35:08]

BETH SANNER, FORMER INTELLIGENCE OFFICER UNDER TRUMP: That was the kind of thing where Putin was able, I think, in some ways, to very craftily control the room.

TODD (voice-over): Trump has denied being a mark for Putin's manipulations.

HILLARY CLINTON, THEN-U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He'd rather have a puppet as president of the United States, and it's pretty clear --

TRUMP: No puppet. You're the puppet.

TODD (voice-over): How might Putin try to shape the relationship this time around?

FARKAS: I think that President Putin will try to convince President Trump that he doesn't need the international order, that they can just make deals, the two of them, and leave the rest of the world out of it.

TODD: Evelyn Farkas warns that if President Trump lets that happen, it will embolden other strongmen to take dangerous actions and simply try to negotiate it all with the president directly. She specifically points to Chinese leader Xi Jinping and the provocative moves he could make with Taiwan and in the South China Sea.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Alright, I want to go to Kyiv now and Michael Bociurkiw, who's a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and former spokesperson for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.

Good to see you again after we spoke last hour. So continuing on the theme, if we're to wrap up sort of all the comments that have been made in the past, let's say, 24 hours, the Trump administration says no NATO for Ukraine, no going back to the pre-2014 border.

President Trump said Ukraine could be Russian one day. I mean, it sounds as though Putin is getting everything he wants here.

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, GLOBAL ANALYST, SR. FELLOW AT ATLANTIC COUNCIL, AND FORMER SPOKESPERSON, ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE: Indeed, and since we spoke, I ingested a little bit more Ukrainian television and just total bewilderment here at what is going on, total shock. I've heard from some Ukrainian ambassadors, they don't even want to go on T.V. because they just don't know how to react to this.

But you know, in the past, Kim, I've called Trump's foreign policy approach gunboat diplomacy. I think I'm going to now call that schoolyard bully diplomacy, and that's the way he's going to be interacting with Vladimir Putin when they finally meet, whether that's in Washington or in Saudi Arabia.

And I think that the Russians know very well how to play Mr. Putin, how to get what they want. And that's very dangerous for Ukraine. And, you know, one of your speakers just now, Evelyn Farkas, I believe, suggested that we're moving towards a situation where things are going to happen hemispherically.

Trump will focus on Western Hemisphere, Vladimir Putin on this part of the world, and Xi Jinping on Asia Pacific.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, interesting. So with the two leaders now supposed to meet face to face, as you said, Trump also seems to, with all of this, be saying that relations with Russia are going to change substantially, it seems, in Russia's favor.

Despite Russia having started this war, having caused so much damage, it seems as if they won't pay much of a price in terms of, let's say, reparations and so on. What kind of signal does all of this send to the rest of the world, and how is that being seen in Ukraine?

BOCIURKIW: Yes, absolutely terrible. And even when Mr. Trump was asked yesterday in the Oval Office about Mr. Putin, about Mr. Zelenskyy, he seemed to really talk up Mr. Putin. But let's remember, things are happening so quickly, it seems like an eternity ago, but it was only a few days ago where the Trump administration made a side deal with the regime in Venezuela, which had no communications with the former administration, and that led to the deportation of alleged criminals back to Venezuela.

And I think what Mr. Trump and his kind of transactional nature is going to be doing, because it's all based around money and resources, is maybe even redirect, I mean, this is pretty extreme, but stay with me, redirect energy flows from my home country, Canada, back to Venezuela, so they could provide the U.S. with energy.

It was hard to believe, you know, maybe a month ago, but that sort of thing seems to be happening with dictators and autocrats, no matter how bloody their record is in the past.

BRUNHUBER: Last hour, you and I were listening in, as U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth again said that Europe and the U.S.-NATO allies will have to do more. NATO Secretary General today said they're willing to spend more, but so far, I mean, Germany and the U.K. together have contributed about a third of what the U.S. has given to Ukraine.

So Europe says it's ready, but is it able to actually pick up the pieces?

BOCIURKIW: No, it isn't. I just did a tour of European capitals and London, and the feeling there is that there's such domestic pressures right now in terms of improving infrastructure, in terms of job creation, housing, broken medical systems, that there's very little wiggle room to up their defense spending.

[03:40:03]

But, you know, this is a lot of their own doing. I mean, the European leaders were warned a long, long time ago in Trump 1.0 that they have to up their defense spending, with just one or two exceptions they haven't, and now they're paying the price for it.

We knew this day would come. It's finally arrived a lot faster than we thought, and it's going to be a very, very difficult time for European security in the next while.

BRUNHUBER: And a very difficult time for Ukraine, because we're talking there about military aid, but there's the other component as well in terms of foreign aid. The Trump administration has cut so much foreign aid, and a lot of that, you know, goes to Ukraine. It's already having an effect on the ground there, I understand.

BOCIURKIW: Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that, because as we mentioned in the past hour, 140 Russian drones were sent mostly. I checked mostly to the Odessa region, and a lot of them targeted the port infrastructure on the Danube River.

This is exactly the port infrastructure which USAID has been supporting to repair. And then the other things that are happening here, East Europe

Foundation, I've mentioned them before, but they do amazing work with, you know, building bomb shelters in schools, mine awareness program, and even things like, you know, digital transformation, putting your entire documents on phone, so if, God forbid, you have to flee, you can.

All of that is coming either to an abrupt end or future funding is very jeopardized. So just quickly, what organizations like they're doing, looking more towards Europe, Switzerland, countries like that, but in no way can countries make up the 35 billion or so that U.S. has given to Ukraine since the start of the full-scale Russian invasion.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, such a huge gap there to fill. Michael Bociurkiw, great to see you again. Thank you so much.

BOCIURKIW: Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: Well, it was a major win for President Trump with one of his most controversial Cabinet picks now confirmed by the Senate. Tulsi Gabbard was sworn in as the new Director of National Intelligence on Wednesday as the President looked on in the Oval Office. The Senate vote was mostly along party lines except for Mitch McConnell.

The former Senate Republican leader said Gabbard has, quote, "a history of alarming lapses in judgment after he joined Democrats to oppose her nomination."

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SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), U.S. SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER: This endangers our security. And my guess is, if a secret ballot were cast on Tulsi Gabbard, maybe she'd get 10 votes. You all know how bad she is.

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BRUNHUBER: Gabbard's nomination had drawn early skepticism from some Republicans over her lack of support for Ukraine and her 2017 meeting with former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

U.S. Senators will take up another Trump Cabinet pick in the coming hours. They'll vote on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s nomination to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. Some senators have voiced concerns about Kennedy's vaccine skepticism, but he's apparently won over several key Republicans and his confirmation is expected.

President Trump is moving to purge some U.S. government agencies, but that push could backfire on a key campaign promise to reduce migration to the U.S. We'll explain after the break, stay with us.

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[03:45:00]

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TRUMP: So when I win, I will immediately bring prices down starting on day one.

Together, we're going to cut your taxes, end inflation, slash your prices, getting them back down.

Under our leadership, we're going to defeat inflation, bring down prices.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Now, despite those promises from Donald Trump to bring prices down, they're actually going back up. Many common goods and services in the U.S. got more expensive last month, driving inflation in the wrong direction to its highest rate since June of last year.

Consumer prices rose half a percent from December. That's the fastest pace since August 2023, resulting in an annual inflation rate of three percent for the 12 months that ended in January.

U.S. stocks mostly fell on Wednesday with investors concerned that inflation has reversed its recent progress and could lead to higher interest rates.

President Trump made reducing illegal migration the cornerstone of his presidential campaign, but now some of his moves to gut government agencies and eliminate their staff could work against that pledge.

Stefano Pozzebon has the story from Cali, Colombia.

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STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): It's lunchtime in Alexandra's home. Today is chicken, but food is not always guaranteed for this family, where she is the only provider for her two children, a younger sister, and her mother.

In 2019, Alexandra left her native Venezuela, alone, walking to Colombia with other migrants while her family stayed behind and joined a few months later.

Now in Cali, she's looking to hit the road again.

ALEXANDRA GUERRA, VENEZUELAN MIGRANT (through translator): Other countries offer better opportunities. After six years, I still don't have a formal job here and now with these decisions, it will be even worse.

POZZEBON (voice-over): These decisions are edicts from U.S. President Donald Trump that flipped Alexandra's life upside down 2,400 miles south of Washington.

She was applying to a safe mobility program to legally move to the U.S. After two interviews, UNHCR told her by email that the program was shut down.

Ten days later, a tailoring course she was taking was also halted after a stop work order for USAID, the U.S. agency that was funding the course.

[03:50:07]

This is her classroom now, sewing machines untouched, nobody at these computers.

POZZEBON: All of this machinery was purchased more than 20 years ago with funds from USAID, and since January 27, it stays like this, still unused. Now the worry is that many of the migrants who are coming here to learn a job and find work will need to go somewhere else to find it, maybe to the United States.

POZZEBON (voice-over): The project director doesn't know if the courses will ever come back. The paradox, he says, is that these are the kind of projects the White House should fund if it really wants to reduce migration.

Alexandra's classmates were mostly Venezuelans who settled in Colombia and here would gain qualifications to enter the job market. And now they're all weighing their options.

POZZEBON: What's most interesting about listening to these stories is that this place had become a community center. They would not only receive an education, but also access to psychologists, a network of contacts, opportunities, social workers that in the process of migration is key. And that's why they feel that all of that effort has now gone in vain.

AYARITH OLIMPO, VENEZUELAN MIGRANT (through translator): My whole family hangs on this decision. This is personal. Migrants are not just a face you see on social media. We are people.

POZZEBON (voice-over): Feeling betrayed by the White House, Ayarith sees no future here and no good options ahead.

Stefano Pozzebon, CNN, Cali, Colombia.

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BRUNHUBER: Weight loss, diabetes, heart disease, and now alcohol intake. Coming up, a new study finds even more potential health benefits of Ozempic. Stay with us.

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BRUNHUBER: Drugs like Ozempic have been hailed for their benefits fighting weight loss and type 2 diabetes. Now a small study seems to confirm another benefit. Some people have claimed that Ozempic leads them to drink less alcohol. CNN's Meg Tirrell explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've heard from people who are taking Ozempic and similar medicines that they not only reduce the amount of food that they want to eat, but also for some people, they can reduce the amount of alcohol that they feel like drinking. But this really hadn't been studied in an organized way until now.

[03:55:00]

So in this new clinical trial, they looked at 48 people who reported having signs of sort of moderate alcohol use disorder. And they put half of the people on Ozempic, low doses of Ozempic and half on a placebo.

And over nine weeks, they monitored how much alcohol they drank and also their cravings for alcohol. And what they found is a significant effect on both the amount of alcohol they drank and how much they craved it. In fact, at the end of the nine weeks, people on semaglutide or Ozempic drank about 40 percent less alcohol than those on placebo.

Now they think that this might be working in this way because we know that these medicines work not just in the gut, but also in the brain. And there might be an effect on sort of the reward system around things like alcohol.

Interestingly, they also looked at cigarette use in the trial among about 13 people who reported also smoking. Now that's a very small sample size, but what they saw is that over the course of the nine weeks, people on Ozempic reported smoking fewer cigarettes per day as well.

Now this needs to be borne out in larger and longer clinical trials, before these drugs could be prescribed widely for things like alcohol use disorder or smoking cessation. And additional trials are underway, but this is really sort of the first study that we've seen in this really organized way to show this effect.

And so there is hope that these medicines could add to an arsenal of addiction treatment, which unfortunately has been fairly lacking.

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BRUNHUBER: Well, this year's nominees for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame were revealed Wednesday, and they include the artists behind smash hits like "White Wedding," "Blue Monday," "Wonderwall," "Time After Time," "The Twist," and this 2003 banger from Andre 3000 and Big Boi.

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Atlanta's own Outkast are among the nominees appearing on the ballot for the first time. Other newcomers include Chubby Checker, Bad Company, Billy Idol and Phish. Mariah Carey, Cyndi Lauper and Joy Division have been nominated before and are back in the mix.

To be eligible, an artist or band must have released their first commercial recording at least 25 years ago. Among the selection criteria, the performers impact on music culture, overall influence and longevity. The inductees will be revealed in April.

All right, thanks so much for joining me. I'm Kim Brunhuber, in Atlanta. The news continues with Max Foster and Christina Macfarlane after a quick break.

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