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Linda McMahon Senate Hearing; Kash Patel and RFK Jr.'s Critical Senate Votes; Hegseth to Address Reporters at NATO Summit. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 13, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Everybody's rightly focused on the fact that we have --

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You just heard Linda McMahon's opening speech there. She's been tapped by President Trump to lead the Department of Education and dissolve it essentially. So, a very unique situation here with the Syrian on Capitol Hill. You see Senator Cassidy speaking right there.

Coming up, we're keeping an eye on two consequential votes on President Trump's cabinet pick Kash Patel and RFK Jr. Up next, I'll speak with a former special FBI agent on what a Trump loyalist leading the FBI could look like.

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[10:35:00]

BROWN: Breaking news, it is a critical morning for two of President Trump's most controversial nominees, the fates of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And Kash Patel are in the hands of lawmakers now. And in moments, the Senate will vote on confirming Kennedy as the next secretary of health and human services. For Patel, the Judiciary Committee is meeting right now to decide whether to advance his nomination as FBI director to the full Senate.

With us now CNN national security correspondent and former FBI supervisory special agent Josh Campbell. You have been monitoring this hearing. What can you tell us, Josh?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, it's still underway. This is the committee vote on Kash Patel for FBI director. The Democrats have been speaking in succession, essentially slamming this nomination, you know, raising their concerns. We expect a vote to be coming up here very shortly.

One thing that's interesting, you know, I'm hearing from people who are inside the FBI, and this is, mind you, people from across political parties, is that this type of nomination is raising concerns because we've never seen an FBI director so politically tied to a president. And in this case, you know, history is important to look to. It was 50 years ago, about 50 years, that Congress actually instituted a 10-year term for the FBI.

And that's because for the 50 years before that, you had FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, who among, you know, all the work that he did to include fighting crime, he was also accused of currying favor with several presidents. And so, what Congress decided is they didn't want those abuses, they didn't want an FBI director to be lashed up so closely with the president.

Of course, in Kash Patel, we know, you know, based on his own words, this is, you know, assessment of what he said that he's, you know, pledged his loyalty to Donald Trump. He's also done things, you know, spread conspiracy theories, accusing the FBI of instigating the January 6th riot, for example, calling them the deep state. So, a lot of concern there about what this might do to transform this institution that is supposed to be independent.

BROWN: So, what kind of effect is that having inside the bureau right now as you're talking to agents there?

CAMPBELL: Well, they're concerned because, you know, on any given day, most FBI employees don't wake up thinking about who the director of the FBI is. They have their work, you know, they put their head down and they do their work. But the FBI director has great power in shaping what the institution does and also what it does not do.

And so, there's one concern, you know, say, hypothetically, you have a situation where FBI employees get evidence of some type of crime that may be occurring among people who may be associated with the president, would that be shut down? Would it even would they even get the green light to try to pursue that?

And again, we know just because of the political infusion here, things that Kash Patel has said about going after a so-called enemies list, there's a lot of concern, again, that, you know, on the day-to-day activity that FBI agents, analysts, professional staff are supposed to be engaged in, will there now be this added infusion of politics, which again, you know, as they say, could be a very dangerous thing.

BROWN: So, as you know, Kash Patel has vowed to not retaliate and so forth and make decisions out of that. Senator Dick Durbin, the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, has accused him of ordering the firings of these top FBI officials as a nominee and then lying to Congress about it. Durbin is citing whistleblowers as the source of his claims.

What do we know about this? And again, what has Kash Patel said?

CAMPBELL: Yes, this was really interesting because as Kash Patel testified under oath, he said that he wasn't aware of any type of, you know, firings that were coming against people who had been involved in Trump related investigations. But as you mentioned, Senator Dick Durbin, a Democrat on the committee, came out with this whistleblower information.

Essentially, there was a meeting at the FBI where agents were told that the executive floor would be cleaned out. There would be these firings. And as one whistleblower said that according to contemporaneous notes from someone there that this was allegedly something that Kash Patel wanted to do. And so, what Senator Durbin is saying is that this actually flies in the face of what he testified to that he had no knowledge of any type of firings.

Whether that will have any impact on this vote, you know, that's unclear. We expect that Kash Patel will make it out of committee. And again, you know, this is all infused with politics. You have a lot of senators there that even if they were concerned about what they're hearing about Kash Patel and there's no indication, you know, that they are, they would, you know, potentially face the wrath of Donald Trump if they try to block one of his nominations.

So, even despite all of that information that Democrats have brought up, we don't expect right now that it would at least cause him to fail getting out of committee.

BROWN: Josh Campbell, thank you so much.

CAMPBELL: You bet.

BROWN: We are minutes away from the confirmation vote of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to become Health and Human Services Secretary. We're going to take you live to Capitol Hill after the break.

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[10:40:00]

BROWN: Breaking news. The Senate just started voting on whether to confirm Robert F. Kennedy Jr as the next secretary of Health and Human Services. Let's go straight to Capitol Hill and CNN's Lauren Fox. Bring us there.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this vote has just gotten underway in the United States Senate. Obviously, yesterday, all of the Republican senators voted to advance this nomination for this final vote that you're seeing happen on the floor right now.

But one thing that we are still keeping a very close eye on is how is Senator Mitch McConnell going to vote today on this final confirmation vote? Will he vote for RFK Jr.? Just remember, McConnell is a polio survivor. He's been a strong and stringent advocate for vaccines, for children against polio. He's also been someone who's advocated extremely strongly over the last several years for the COVID-19 vaccine, even when Donald Trump had injected some uncertainty about that vaccine during his own presidency. So, it is really going to be an interesting moment as to whether or not McConnell decides ultimately to vote for this nomination.

[10:45:00]

We saw yesterday him vote against Tulsi Gabbard for the Director of National Intelligence. He also voted against Pete Hegseth for the top job at the Pentagon. And it's just this really remarkable moment, given the fact that McConnell is obviously the former Republican leader, the longest serving Senate leader in history, and yet, now, he is sort of unencumbered and finding this moment where, at times, he has voted against Donald Trump's nominees when he feels like they aren't qualified for the job or when he feels like they have exhibited questionable judgment, as he said in his statement yesterday, when it came to Tulsi Gabbard and her judgment in the past. So, that is the key vote that we are watching.

Of course, it will not have an outcome on whether or not RFK Jr. gets through, because even if Mitch McConnell votes against this nomination, he'll still have the votes to advance in the United States Senate. We do know that all the other Republicans have so far expressed that they are ready to for this nominee. Pam.

BROWN: All right. Lauren Fox, thanks so much. Any moment now. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is expected to address reporters from the NATO summit of Brussels as the ripple effect of President Trump's call with Vladimir Putin spreads among U.S. allies.

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[10:50:00]

BROWN: In moments, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth will hold a press conference from the NATO Defense Minister Summit in Brussels. With us now is retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. So, Colonel, there has been a lot of playing out when it comes to Ukraine and Russia. We know President Trump spoke to President Putin. Do you think Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is being boxed out right now?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It sure looks like that, Pamela, and it's really disturbing because, of course, the Ukrainians have made all these incredible sacrifices. You know, they've lost, you know, possibly as many as 60,000 troops killed in action and certainly several hundred thousand wounded.

And they have also been put in a position where they're losing population. And that is a considerable drain on their resources. They have done an amazing amount of military work, they've been able to basically stop the Russians, although they -- the Russians are gaining some ground in certain areas, especially in the east of Ukraine. But Ukraine is definitely not being rewarded for its sacrifices at the moment, and that's very concerning, frankly.

BROWN: Now, Pete Hegseth, for his part, has said that this is not a betrayal to Ukraine, but do you think Ukraine sees it as a betrayal?

LEIGHTON: I think they do. I think most Ukrainians are going to look at this and they're going to say, you know, why are you precluding us from joining NATO? Why are you telling us that, you know, we're not going to be really part of the negotiations? And that is, I think, a significant problem.

You know, if Pete Hegseth wants to gain the trust of the Ukrainians, he has to include the Ukrainians. Same for President Trump, and they need to include the Ukrainians in all of this. I know President Trump seems to have a proclivity for Russia, but in this particular case, it's better to be more even handed than anything else. And that does make a difference.

BROWN: Right. And there we see Pete Hegseth, right now. Let's listen in.

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: -- at NATO with 31 allies, also with my wife, Jenny, who's been meeting with families of U.S. troops, both here in Germany and we're heading to Poland right after this as well. That's what this is all about for me, for President Trump, and the Defense Department.

I also want to express a special thanks to the secretary general, Secretary General Rutte for your boldness, for your friendship, for your leadership, and most especially for your urgency, your urgency of the matter at hand, which is great to see from the leader of NATO. I look forward to working very closely with him and his team.

And before we're talking about what we've done at the ministerial, I want to reaffirm a few things from this podium. First, as we see it, NATO's strategic objectives are to prevent great power conflict in Europe, deter nuclear and non-nuclear aggression, and defeat threats to treaty allies should deterrence fail.

Second, the U.S. is committed to building a stronger more lethal NATO. However, we must ensure that European and Canadian commitment to Article 3 of this treaty is just as strong. Article 3 says that allies, and I quote, "by means of continuous and effective self-help and mutual aid will maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to resist armed attack."

Leaders of our European allies should take primary responsibility for defense of the continent, which means security ownership by all allies, guided by a clear understanding of strategic realities, and it's an imperative given the strategic realities that we face.

And that begins with increasing defense spending. 2 percent is a start, as President Trump has said, but it's not enough. Nor is 3 percent, nor is 4 percent, more like 5 percent. Real investment, real urgency. We can talk all we want about values. Values are important, but you can't shoot values. You can't shoot flags, and you can't shoot strong speeches. There is no replacement for hard power. As much as we may not want to like the world we live in some cases, there's nothing like hard power.

[10:55:00]

It should be obvious that increasing allied European defense spending is critical, as the president of the United States has said. Also critical is expanding our defense industrial base capacity on both sides of the Atlantic. Our dollars, our euros, our pounds must become real capabilities.

BROWN: All right. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth speaking there, talking about NATO nations needing to increase their spending. We need to take a quick break, and we'll be back on the other side. Stay with us.

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