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Vance And Zelenskyy Meet In Push For Peace In Ukraine; NTSB Unveils Preliminary Findings On Deadly Midair Collision; 7th Prosecutor Quits Over DOJ Order To Drop Mayor Adams Case; Israel Names Three Hostages Set For Release Saturday. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired February 14, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:37]

ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: All right. I'm Zain Asher in New York. Thank you so much for joining me today here on CNN NEWSROOM. Let's get right to the news.

President Zelenskyy is once again urging the United States to not make any decisions about Ukraine without Ukraine. Anxiety and uncertainty envelopes European leaders this week after Trump blindsided them with his plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine.

But for American allies hoping to receive some reassurance from the United States, Vice President J.D. Vance provided little comfort.

In his first address on the global stage, Vance compared U.S. allies to Cold War tyrants, accusing them of an overly repressive response to unorthodox political views and signals support for far right parties, including Germanys AFD party, which Moscow has also backed.

In his meeting with President Zelenskyy, Vance reiterated Trump's desire for a durable peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Fundamentally, the goal is, as President Trump outlined it, we want the war to come to a close. We want the killing to stop, but we want to achieve a durable, lasting peace, not the kind of peace that's going to have Eastern Europe in conflict just a couple of years down the road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: CNN's chief international security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, joins us live now.

So, Nick, just in terms of what came out of that meeting between Zelenskyy and J.D. Vance, did President Zelenskyy receive the assurances that he was looking for, that he would have a say in his own country's future when it comes to this peace deal with Russia?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's really hard to tell at this stage exactly where Zelenskyy's mind must be at after, frankly, a whiplash of a week where he's seen Trump and Putin talk, it seems possibly more than once, according to Trump's analysis of this. And it seems a process begin that clearly had him outside of the room. Now in Munich, he seems to be the beneficiary of more reassuring noises. And certainly this meeting between Vance and him and the team alongside you see flank there.

It's a sort of diplomacy you would normally expect to see emerge from the United States between Ukraine, who is supported relentlessly over the past three years. Have we heard anything from either of the two men in respect of their meeting that changes the situation? Not really. Zelenskyy is hoping this won't be the last meeting, hoping things advance forward again, reiterating the need for Ukraine to be part of all of this.

But we've seen such a marked departure over the past week from the Biden administrations position, where essentially Zelenskyy was front and center of every single motion the Biden administration did. He's been outside of the room it seems that Trump and Putin talks so far. And so, we've also had this extraordinary whiplash of the Pete Hegseth comments, so the secretary of defense talking initially about how NATO membership for Ukraine was off the table impossible, how Ukraine could never get back to its 2014 or pre-2014 borders, all things I think that Ukraine's European allies knew themselves but weren't going to articulate publicly ahead of negotiations, and perhaps hope to try and become part of negotiations.

So yes, it's been an exceptionally complex week where Hegseth has had to essentially walk some of that back over the past 72 hours. So I think if you're in Kyiv right now, you are seeing the bulwark of your support in the West, the United States, evaporating quite fast.

And also it's important to point out, Zain, this at times bizarre speech from J.D. Vance about Europe itself, calling into question the integrity of Western European democracies, America's long-term allies and a kind of fact loose speech, talking about opposition leaders being jailed, how freedom of speech is under attack in Europe.

A speech, frankly, that in Munich to many there who many of them actually frankly remembering the Soviet era around there would seem pretty distasteful and it seems an attempt to try and restart the idea of populism as a viable idea inside of the European electorate, a strange speech, particularly one that came when most of them were waiting to see exactly what the Trump administration's red lines and policy was about Ukraine.

So, frankly, a messy day in Munich for the Trump administration, and not one that's really changed I think Zelenskyy's understanding of what it is that Washington really wants.

ASHER: All right. Nick Paton Walsh live for us there, thank you so much.

[15:05:00]

And as our Nick was just talking about, Vance pushed Europe on a number of topics, not only the war in Ukraine, he accused them of backing away from free speech, inaction to curb immigration and said the threat to Europe lay not from adversaries like Russia, but actually from within. The red meat speech also defended Elon Musk's influence, not just in American politics but abroad in the U.K. and Germany.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: Speaking up and expressing opinions isn't election interference. Even when people express views outside your own country, and even when those people are very influential? If American democracy can survive ten years of Greta Thunberg's scolding, you guys can survive a few months of Elon Musk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Jeff Zeleny is at the White House for us.

So, Jeff, this was J.D. Vance essentially introducing himself to Europe, quite an introduction. I mean, he talked about everything from immigration to freedom of speech to democracy to the fact that he believed that Europe was silencing political minorities. Just walk us through what this demonstrates in the fact that he didn't really touch on Ukraine. What does it demonstrate about the daylight that exists under this new administration between the United States and Europe?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, this is perhaps no surprise. Its along the lines of what J.D. Vance as a senator, and certainly is a vice presidential candidate has been saying. But now he, of course, is saying it on the world stage directly to allies. So it rings significantly differently and much more poignantly. But there's no question that in this new Trump administration, he has the blessing of the president. Just a few moments ago in the Oval Office, the president was asked about the vice president's speech.

He said this. I thought it was a great speech. I thought his speech was well-received, of course, well received by whom? Certainly not the allies to whom he was speaking. But there is no doubt that J.D. Vance is speaking for the president of the United States. And this is a much in line with what we saw in the first Trump administration, really, rankling longtime allies. But of course, its different now with the whole Ukraine, Russia, invasion and war still hanging over all of this.

But J.D. Vance is clearly going right into the Donald Trump playbook, if you will. And again, perhaps not surprising, we've heard these words before, but it's the venue in which he said them, which is so, so different -- Zain.

ASHER: And just in terms of domestic issues -- I mean, obviously, we've seen Donald Trump and the Trump administration go to war with the press before, especially in his first term. And now the White House is doubling down on its fight with the "Associated Press", especially when it comes to the renaming of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. Walk us through that.

ZELENY: Look, every day this week as the president has signed executive orders in what has become routine, right behind the Resolute Desk is a big easel with a sign Gulf of America, making the point that he, in his mind, has renamed the Gulf of Mexico, into the Gulf of America. It's one of the first executive orders he signed. Well, the "Associated Press", of course, the news cooperative that provides news globally to clients is still calling it the Gulf of Mexico, because that is what is referred to around the world.

Because of that, the president, the White House has banned the "Associated Press" reporters from asking questions in the Oval Office at a press conference. And now, we're learning, even flying in a coveted seat on Air Force One as the president is flying down to Florida, just leaving in a few moments, I can hear the helicopters behind me here. We're told the associated press is likely to not have their traditional seat on there.

The reason this matters is if anyone's wondering, the press pool that travels with the president has long been comprised of "The Associated Press", Reuters and Agence France Press, as the print news agencies, there's a network television representative as well, as well as a print representative, "The Associated Press" being kicked out of this is the eyes and ears for the American people around the world, because the president does not like some people around the world not referring to his Gulf of America.

Of course, in the entire world, it's called the Gulf of Mexico. Only here in the United States now is it called the Gulf of America -- Zain.

ASHER: Jeff Zeleny, live for us there -- thank you so much.

Let's discuss all things moving between the Ukraine -- Ukraine and Russia.

ZELENY: All right, guys, thanks.

ASHER: Contributor Jill Dougherty joins us live now. She's a former CNN Moscow bureau chief and adjunct professor at Georgetown University.

So, Jill, Volodymyr Zelenskyy essentially saying earlier today that he's not going to accept any negotiations that don't give Ukraine a seat at the table, that Ukraine itself, of course, should have a say over its own future.

Just walk us through what are the potential consequences and ramifications of the U.S. essentially squeezing out Ukraine from these negotiations and colluding basically behind its back on its own future?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think this is pretty extraordinary because let's face it, if you have the president of Ukraine where the war is taking place, saying I should be a member of these negotiations, if he has to say that to me, it's significant.

[15:10:08] And the reason he's saying that is because President Trump talked with Vladimir Putin and then informed Zelenskyy about that talk. Now the White House is saying, days later, yes, Ukraine will definitely be part of these negotiations, et cetera.

But you can see why Zelenskyy is very worried. I mean, the indications from the administration are, number one, the policy is all over the map. I have talked with Ukrainians who say we have no idea what the policy actually is, but they hear things, you know, from one official saying, no NATO membership ever for Ukraine, another person saying no, that's still on the table. There are a lot of confusing messages, and I think probably Zelenskyy feels very much in the middle, pulled and actually pressured by the United States, not to mention Russia in this, whatever it turns into type of negotiation.

ASHER: I want to get your take on J.D. Vance's comments and that speech at the Munich Security Conference. I mean, it was obviously a deliberate decision by him, right, not to really speak about Ukraine and instead sort of sidetracked all these other issues.

What message do you think he was trying to send with that, Jill?

DOUGHERTY: Well, I think it's important for Europeans to understand and people around the world, this is a big issue in the United States, among very conservative people who believe that the deep state, as they call it, is suppressing any First Amendment, you know, ability to speak your mind on the part of conservatives. So this is, you know, red meat, as we say here, for the domestic audience who supports President Trump and J.D. Vance. And it also gives him a chance to kind of, speak out, you know, look at the things he talked about, a person who is against abortion, a religious person, et cetera.

These are things that strike home among certain very conservative elements in Europe as well. And it ironically has to if you think of Vladimir Putin looking at this, this is very much what Vladimir Putin himself says, that Europe is debauched and corrupt and has lost Christian values. This is classic Putin.

So I'm not quite sure whether the vice president actually understood, how that would be received in Europe. Perhaps he wasn't really worried about the Europeans so much as the domestic audience to see, you know, a strong leader standing up for the rights of conservatives. But it certainly has created a lot of backlash and a lot of anger in Europe.

ASHER: Yeah, especially because, you know, I think what people are sort of gathering from not just J.D. Vance's comments, but obviously Trump's comments earlier in the week is that the U.S. cannot be relied upon as a sort of stable and predictable security partner for Europe and for NATO as well.

Just explain to us from your perspective, can Europe fill the void that is going to be left by the U.S. going forward?

DOUGHERTY: You know, I think it's going to be very hard because for years and it is true, Europe kind of farmed out a lot of its defense to the United States. And there was a good reason for that for the United States as well. However, at this point, if the United States pulls back or pulls out, this is a massive problem for Europe.

And I think the real problem in Europe would be eventually -- I mean, they're rich enough that they could retool their economies, but it would be completely disruptive and it would take money from the social side of the ledger and put it on the military side that in any country, in any region, could create a lot of backlash among people. And that would work very well for Vladimir Putin, because it would create dissension and anger, and, you know, populist anger in Europe.

So the problem is that Europe now has to face the possibility that the United States will at least pull back, and maybe even the threat is to pull out. It's quite sobering for the Europeans and, the speed with which this is happening, Zain, is the other part of it. If this had happened over a while, and there was some plan, but right now, they're getting a lot of incoming information from the Trump administration, a lot of it is confusing and contradictory and also worrying for the future.

[15:15:11]

ASHER: Yeah. The first month of the Trump administration has been a massive wake up call for Europe.

Jill Dougherty, live for us there, thank you so much.

DOUGHERTY: Thank you.

ASHER: All right. Coming up, breaking news from investigators on the deadly airplane and Black Hawk helicopter crash in Washington, D.C., last month. The key findings from the preliminary report and the discrepancies they're seeing in the data, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: All right, breaking news on last month's deadly midair collision between a commercial plane and a Black Hawk helicopter in Washington. The National Transportation Safety Board says -- has just unveiled preliminary investigation findings on what happened, shedding light on procedures inside the Black Hawk and also possible gaps in communication between air traffic control and the helicopter.

I want to get right to CNN's aviation analyst Miles O'Brien for details.

So just in terms of these sorts of communication areas, we're hearing that there was a possibility that the Black Hawk helicopter essentially keyed in to air traffic control at the same time that air traffic control was talking to them. That could have meant that the message wasn't heard in full.

Just walk us through your thoughts on that, as to whether that could have been a possible cause of this crash.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yeah. One of the key things that the controller said to the Black Hawk helicopter was passed behind the CRJ jet, the commuter airliner that was landing on approach there. And that portion of that transmission, while the controller did, in fact transmit, it, it was blocked and not heard inside the cockpit of the Black Hawk helicopter. That's a key little piece of information, just one of many missteps and misunderstandings and perhaps discrepancies, which led to this.

[15:20:01]

ASHER: And another discrepancy -- I mean, the fact that the trading pilot apparently said that they were at one altitude, but the flying pilot called out another altitude. What do you make of that mismatch?

O'BRIEN: I think a lot of the investigation is going to end up focusing on this. There's a couple of ways that you get altitude inside an aircraft like that, barometric altitude is set relative to sea level. And it is adjusted on the instrument by understanding what the altimeter setting is, what the barometric pressure, the weather conditions are locally. And if one instrument was set slightly differently than the other, there would be a discrepancy, which apparently was stated on the cockpit voice recorder.

Unfortunately, that kind of data is not captured on the flight data recorder. So, they're trying to determine now what the actual altitude of the craft was above the ground using the radar or radio altimeter, which is another way of finding the altitude.

ASHER: They did also ask answer one key question that needed to be cleared up. And that is the NTSB believes that the crew in the Black Hawk helicopter were actually wearing night vision goggles, because that was an open question before this point.

O'BRIEN: Yes. It was confirmed, at this briefing that the crew was, in fact wearing night vision goggles. If they were to go without them, there was supposed to be a visual exchange saying, I'm flying unaided. And that did not occur.

So the night vision which is -- was part of the check ride that the pilot was going through, it was a night vision check ride, while enhancing the light that is available greatly, also diminished greatly the peripheral vision of a pilot. So you can imagine, looking sort of down two toilet paper tubes at the world and an aircraft coming in from the left and turning, as was the case in this case, might not have appeared until it was too late.

The other thing about the night vision goggles is they enhance light so much that in a city environment with all the city lights, it can almost be self-defeating, kind of blinding. So that kind of information is what the NTSB is going to focus on very closely.

ASHER: All right. Miles O'Brien live for us there, thank you so much.

All right. There is a crisis inside the Department of Justice's most prominent and historically most independent district. Now seven -- seven federal prosecutors in Manhattan southern district have quit. That includes the top attorney there, Danielle Sassoon, all resigning in protest after they were ordered by Trump officials to drop the corruption case against this man, New York City's Mayor Eric Adams. The order to came - the order came from the Acting Deputy General Emil Bove, who, amid the turmoil, ordered the remaining prosecutors to find one career lawyer to file the official dismissal.

Joining me now is a former federal prosecutor in the Southern District of New York, Jessica Roth.

So, Jessica, the SDNY is nicknamed the sovereign, not southern. It's nicknamed the sovereign district of New York because it historically operates independent from Washington. So this really is a seismic noteworthy event to take place there. Just walk us through what you're hearing from inside the department.

JESSICA ROTH, FORMER SDNY PROSECUTOR: Well, this has been an extraordinary standoff between the career professional prosecutors at the U.S. attorneys office for the Southern District of New York and also at Main Justice in the public integrity division against the new acting deputy attorney general, Emil Bove, who, I think shocked everyone once we saw his memo to Danielle Sassoon, ordering her to dismiss the charges against Eric Adams for expressly political reasons.

ASHER: I actually want to read from the resignation letter of one of the line prosecutors who resigned today, Hagan Scotten, and he actually wrote: Our laws and traditions do not allow using the prosecutor -- prosecutorial power to influence other citizens, much less elected officials, in this way. If no lawyer within earshot of the president is willing to give him that advice, then I expect you will eventually find someone who is enough of a fool or enough of a coward to file your motion, but it was never going to me.

I want you to keep in mind that Scotten is a Harvard law grad. He has two Bronze Stars from his service in Iraq. He clerked for Chief Justice John Roberts. I mean, this is a career prosecutor, not a political persona. Give us your take on that letter.

ROTH: So his letter is extraordinary, as you point out, his credentials, and also the fact that he has worked for conservative judges. And he says clearly in his letter that he doesn't necessarily disagree generally with the incoming administration's views on every subject.

[15:25:00]

It's very clear that his resignation is prompted by the order to dismiss the charges against Adams and the reasons stated for it. And similarly, Ms. Sassoon's letter is strictly about that order and how utterly improper it was and inconsistent with professional norms and practices in not only to dismiss for -- because they wanted Mayor Adams' cooperation with President Trump's immigration agenda, but expressly to dismiss it without prejudice, meaning that it could be reinstated.

And the order -- the memo from Mr. Bove said the charges could be reinstated after the November 2025 election, effectively making Adams beholden to Trump so that he would continue to implement the president's agenda. And she, too, has clerked for conservative judges and was a member of a Federalist Society. So these are people acting on principle, not politics, in the Southern District of New York.

ASHER: I mean, it's remarkable when you think about what's happened here, and it's such a big deal for Manhattan prosecutors to essentially indict their own sitting mayor. Just remind us the evidence and the investigations that went into getting this historic indictment.

ROTH: So this is an indictment that contains multiple counts alleging a vast corruption scheme that involved getting straw donations from people who were not permitted to donate to a New York City mayoral election because they were foreign nationals. And that's prohibited by law. Going through straw donors who themselves had permission under the law to give donations, and then to conceal that the true nature or the true source of the donations from the relevant authorities, and then also a quid pro quo of benefits from Turkish nationals and people working with interests in Turkey, gifts of luxury travel, for example, to the mayor in exchange for him using his influence with New York City officials, in particular, with getting an occupancy license for a new building in New York City that they had constructed for official functions.

So it's a wide ranging scheme, and as Ms. Sassoon made very clear in her letter to Pam Bondi, the evidence was very strong. And in fact, the office was prepared to add new charges, including obstruction of justice, for tampering with evidence related to that initial investigation.

So the southern district prosecutors are standing behind the evidence in their case, and notably in Mr. Bove's original memo, he said he was not making a judgment on the merits of the case. And so that's, again, just what's so extraordinary here, among other things, is that the direction to dismiss, at least initially, had nothing to do with the merits of the case and everything to do with political considerations.

ASHER: Right, right. Jessica Roth, live for us there. Thank you so much.

All right. Still to come, what we're learning about the next hostage and prisoner swap between Hamas and Israel happening tomorrow. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:31:22]

ASHER: Yeah. After some uncertainty during the week, it appears the next round of hostages held by Hamas will be set free noon tomorrow. Israel has announced these three hostages are due to be released from Gaza on Saturday. They are Argentinian-Israeli, Russian-Israeli and American-Israeli. Hamas says that Israel is then expected to release more than 350 Palestinian prisoners in exchange.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Jerusalem with the very latest.

So, Nic, what more do we know about these t three hostage who are set to be released because they came from kibbutz Nir Oz, which had one of the largest numbers of hostages taken from it. Walk us through that.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, it was very, very close to the border with Gaza when it was overrun. Sagui Deke- Chen is the Israeli American, 36 years old, who is due to be released tomorrow. His wife, Avital, posted this picture on Instagram, with their three daughters. And by the way, if you look, there's the two daughters next to Avital, and if you can see in the picture there, and then there's the youngest daughter is sort of playing beneath them, and that younger daughter was born while Sagui is in captivity.

So when he gets out tomorrow, he will meet his third daughter for the first time. That Instagram post was telling friends, I think it said they're telling friends daddy is coming home, so huge for that family.

This was a man, by the way, who was repairing busses, in the kibbutz there. And they were then used to go and sort of bring education to poorer communities, Israeli and Arab communities in Israel.

The Argentinian-American, 40 of -- Argentinian- Israeli, sorry, 46 years old, Iair Horn um, his brother Idan is still captive by -- by Hamas inside of Gaza, In Israel and in Nir Oz, he was somebody who -- who really, according to family and friends, was helped organize social events. He ran the pub in the kibbutz there.

And the third there, the youngest, 29 years old now. Sergey Alexandre Troufanov, he was somebody who was seen as a real sort of happy person, bought a lot into the community, worked for Amazon, but he also has a very tragic story, like so many of the hostages who've -- who've been released, they're released to discover tragedy. His father was killed October 7th. His grandmother and his mother and his girlfriend were also taken hostage on October the 7th. They fortunately were released in that ceasefire. Hostage deal back in November 2023. That's on the Israeli side.

Now, we know that they're going to be 369 Palestinians released, 333 of them were picked up in Gaza by the Israeli forces detained, being released to two different locations in Gaza tomorrow. The other 36 of that 369 that are being released, the Palestinians, they've been serving life sentences in Israeli prisons.

And we understand that 24 of those 36 will actually be deported. They won't be able to go back to their homes. They'll be deported either to Gaza or Egypt. That's the expectation.

Both sides will be looking to see how their loved ones have been treated. And of course, Israel was in shock last week when they saw the emaciated state of the three hostages released. Back then, the government decried the situation, Palestinians also saying that their hostages, their loved ones, were not treated well in Israeli jails were denied -- denied enough food, denied enough water.

[15:35:11]

The Israelis have denied those allegations. But this is the tension that exists. And part of what makes this whole process so fragile right now. ASHER: Nic Robertson, live for us there, thank you so much.

All right. This week, immigrants' rights advocates sued the Trump administration for access to the 98 immigrants currently housed at Guantanamo Bay. Of the 98 held in the detention center, 53 Venezuelan men are being held in Camp Six, a wartime prison built to hold al Qaeda suspects.

The government is not disclosing their names to prevent legal challenges and families knowing where their loved ones are being held. "The New York Times" obtained and published the names of the 53 men.

Carol Rosenberg is "The New York Times" Guantanamo Bay reporter and joins us live now to discuss the latest move by the Trump administration.

So, as I mentioned, Carol, 98 migrants currently being held at Guantanamo Bay. Just explain to us why 53 men were moved to Camp Six, which was previously for al Qaeda terrorists.

CAROL ROSENBERG, GUANTANAMO BAY REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Zain, they're up to about 150 men. And you're correct that about, at least 53 of them are being held in this prison building that was built for al Qaeda and Taliban suspects about 20 years ago. It looks like a prison building in the United States with individual cells in a common area. And it was cleared out at the end of last month to prepare for a place to put these men, they're calling migrants, Venezuelan men.

These particular men are being described as high risk, would be deportees. Men who entered or tried to enter the United States from the southern border were picked up without visas or authority to enter or having entered without permission. And they say, we are told by the government that all of them are under deportation orders, final deportation orders.

The part about them being put in the prison, I think is twofold. One is they're being held by MPs, Army guards, who until last month were holding a long held Arab prisoners of the war against terrorism who had been there for 15 or 17 or more years and who were, let's say, everybody knew the rules of engagement for both the U.S. Army and the detainees. And now, we have guards who get a new population and, men who had until recently been in strict, I would say, immigration custody, talking to what they call ICE officers and agents ending up on opposite sides of the cell.

And there's a lot of uncertainty about how it's going to work, why they're there, how long they'll be there. And you know, what their, frankly, rights are. As you said, lawyers are trying to get in touch with them and represent them. And, at least have phone calls with them. And right now they are in a detention setting, particularly those 53 men that is very different than any where they've been held until now.

ASHER: I mean, it's astonishing, isn't it, because you've been covering Guantanamo Bay for two decades. I mean, did you ever think there was a world in which you would see immigrants being housed in facilities that were previously built for al Qaeda terrorists?

ROSENBERG: Certainly not in that facility, certainly not in that prison on that portion of the island behind the gates to what is called the detention zone, which has which is, frankly, a base within a base at Guantanamo Bay. There's more than 4,000 people who live down there, and most people on that base can't go near that zone where they've moved the migrants into, as they're calling them.

There's another portion of the base where we did imagine there would be people called migrants. But it was -- it was intended and designed for a humanitarian mission, as in people who were picked up at sea, who needed shelter because they were fleeing their country and trying to get, say to the United States, tent cities. That is the vision that Guantanamo has operated under for quite some time.

That is the tent cities. Those are the tent cities that are being built right now by U.S. forces on the -- on another portion of the base, and we don't know when or if the people will be put in that setting, which could be quite similar to something that is a humanitarian operation.

You know, the Trump -- the Pentagon has said that the idea is to have it as a temporary site, that this is on their way -- for the Venezuelans who are due for deportation, and repatriation, for them to be there on their way back to Venezuela.

[15:40:12]

So why they've chosen to move these 150 people, men there when other flights have left the El Paso, Texas area to bring Venezuelans home is still quite -- quite unclear to us at this point.

Why these men, why this place and why now?

ASHER: Right. Carol Rosenberg, a life for us there. Thank you so much for your remarkable reporting on this. Such an important topic, and we will continue to revisit it. Thank you so much, Carol.

All right. Coming up, we all remember the political power of the soccer mom, but have you considered the sheer force of the MAHA mom? Take a closer look at the women and men behind the influential Make America Healthy Again movement. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: What once seemed like a long shot, a vaccine critic running the nation's public health agencies is now a reality.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. owes his new title in large part to a coalition known as the MAHA movement.

CNN's Dana Bash spent time learning about how wellness influencers took their mission to Make America Healthy Again, all the way to President Trump's cabinet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DEMONSTRATORS: Let us in! Let us in!

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): October 2024, Battle Creek, Michigan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a monumental moment.

BASH: An army of protesters delivered 400,000 petitions to Kellogg's headquarters, demanding the company make good on a pledge to remove artificial dyes from its food.

VANI HARI, FOUNDER, FOOD BABE: I'm here for the moms, all the moms, who struggle to feed their children healthy food.

BASH: The leader, Vani Hari, a food activist known as the Food Babe, who says cutting out the processed and fast food of her youth not only helped her shed weight, but curbed serious health struggles.

[15:45:07]

She has a wellness brand and a massive online following.

HARI: I feel like my voice represents so many ordinary citizens, moms and activists and dads and so many people across the United States that have just had had enough.

BASH: Hari volunteered for Barack Obama's presidential campaigns. She was a delegate at his 2012 convention, where she wrote, "Label GMOs" on signs.

She got disillusioned with politics and turned to activism, pressuring restaurants like Chick-fil-A and Subway to take some additives out of their food.

HARI: Why is it citizen activists like me and the people that follow me, and all the grassroots movement holding these companies accountable? Why -- isn't there anybody in Washington doing this?

BASH: She and others, livid about the American food system, found common cause with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

CALLEY MEANS, SAFE FOOD ADVOCATE: There's, I think, a real hunger for politicians across the aisle to be targeting this voter anxiety about why are we getting so sick.

BASH: Calley Means and his sister Casey are well known leaders in the so-called MAHA, Make America Healthy Again movement.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., HHS SECRETARY: I got a call from a safe food advocate named Calley Means.

BASH: He was a GOP Trump critic who turned supporter and helped broker the first call between Kennedy and then candidate Donald Trump last summer.

KENNEDY: Don't you want a president that's going to make America healthy again?

BASH: With that endorsement, the MAHA movement came with him.

STEVE BANNON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: They kind of what I call red pilled moms. Many of them that voted for Obama looking for change there -- the MAHA movement, Make America Wealthy Again. Bobby Kennedy is the leader of that movement, and that's why I thought it was absolutely urgent to get Bobby Kennedy across the finish line.

BASH: Dan Pfeiffer, a former senior Obama aide, says Democratic leaders missed an opportunity.

DAN PFEIFFER, FORMER SENIOR OBAMA AIDE: We're not living in the same social media Internet spaces that a lot of the public is where, you know, people talking about, you know, what to feed your kids, what chemicals to avoid.

Long before he even decided to run for president in 2024, RFK Jr. lived in those spaces.

BASH: And when Trump nominated Kennedy for secretary of Health and Human Services, the MAHA network went to work.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): I was getting hundreds of messages a day personally, and thousands through the office.

BASH: Despite serious misgivings about Kennedy pushing conspiracy theories and regularly suggesting vaccines cause autism, which was scientifically debunked --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Cassidy.

BASH: -- Republicans like Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy, a medical doctor, saved Kennedy's bid for HHS secretary.

CASSIDY: Vaccines save lives. They are safe. They do not cause autism. There are multiple studies that show this.

Mr. Kennedy and the administration reached out seeking to reassure me regarding their commitment to protecting the public health benefit of vaccination.

BASH: Are you completely confident that none of those theories that RFK Jr. has, and he's expressed many times over the years, will be part of America's public health, as he promised to Senator Cassidy?

MEANS: I am completely confident that Bobby Kennedy will come in with opinions and believe those opinions do not matter. Bobby Kennedy is coming in to institute a process.

BASH: Expectations for Kennedy are extremely high among his supporters, who want him to crack down on the food and pharmaceutical industries. But in an anti-regulation Trump administration, can he?

The way that the Trump administration is proceeding is to loosen the reins of the way government regulates clean air, clean water. So why are you so confident that they will be the opposite when it comes to the food industry?

MEANS: This is not Bloomberg, Michelle Obama nanny state, soda taxes.

You got foundational conflicts of interest in our scientific guidelines. So there's a very conservative point there, that's not ideological and not against conservative principles that we should just have accurate science. And then number two is we should stop subsidizing bad things.

And I know that many people on the left watching that can't stand Bobby Kennedy and stand President Trump, I know they resonate with something that's happening. I know they resonate, that there's a strain that we're touching on childhood chronic disease. And I would just urge them, there's a mass opportunity in society to support the Trump administration on this sector.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: We'll be right back with much more after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:52:35]

ASHER: Every great city has a building that symbolizes its grandeur and history. In Paris, one such building is the Elysee Palace, which represents the French state. Emmanuel Macron calls it home. And recently, the French president gave CNN's Richard Quest a tour.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR IN CHIEF: Look at that. What happens if the dogs go on this thing?

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: No, they don't. They don't go. (INAUDIBLE), please. Respect the instructions. And normally you shouldn't.

No, no.

QUEST: I can see who's the boss.

MACRON: And this one is a piece we -- that's the tapestry made by --

QUEST: Do you get involved? Do you choose?

MACRON: Definitely. And in fact, we go with the Mobilier National and some of our museums in order to choose the pieces which will be put here.

QUEST: What do you use these rooms for? I mean --

MACRON: This is the salon for, I mean, some meetings or after dinner, after lunch, and to have some special events. And here was in fact the room of La Pompadour because originally this palace was made by aristocrats in the 18th century. And the king a few years later bought it for La Pompadour.

And she had her room here. She was not so happy at the end of her life. And here it was completely recreated by contemporary artists and designers.

QUEST: Do you enjoy the big event?

MACRON: I think -- I like the energy that this event can create and the links it can establish and the situation it can unlock.

QUEST: Yes, that's the key to it. What's it like when you walk in here the first time as president?

(LAUGHTER)

QUEST: You know, the first time you come in and you -- what's it like?

MACRON: You mean on a daily basis or the very first time I entered?

QUEST: Let's say the very first time you entered and you suddenly realized it's all, you know, it's all mine to screw up.

MACRON: I can tell you that the very first days, in fact, you don't totally realize. And you're not totally lucid. After that, you know the place and you discover each time new aspects.

[15:55:01]

And what I do prefer is probably this, the fact that you have something out of age.

QUEST: Yes.

MACRON: Even when you put this time of pieces, this is, the fact that it can -- more long, more solid than anything else.

QUEST: Yes.

MACRON: The importance of time. I love this one.

QUEST: If you could take one piece home with you when you're finished, you can take one, I imagine I can give you one piece in the whole place. Which one would it be? Would it be?

MACRON: It's very difficult. I would take a -- you know what, I would just take my pen and start again.

QUEST: Thank you very much.

MACRON: It's much better than anything else. The rest will stay here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: That's a great final question by Richard Quest there. All right. The remains of a 2,000-year-old Roman Basilica have been

unearthed in the center of London. Officials say the building was uncovered during work on an office block in the city's financial district. According to historians, the basilica was likely the political, commercial and social hub of Roman Londinium. It would have been a key structure within London's forum, which is thought to have been about the size of a soccer pitch. There are plans to eventually open the site to the public.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Zain Asher.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next. You're watching CNN.