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Zelenskyy Calls For The Creation Of A European Army; Hamas Releases 3: More Hostages, Including An Israeli-American; Thousands Of Probationary Employees Fires As Trump Admin Directs Agencies To Carry Out Widespread Layoffs; Potentially Historic Flooding Expected As Major Storm Moves East; Trump: Reciprocal Tariffs A "Simple System," Will Reduce U.S. Debt. Trump Orders Sweeping Reciprocal Tariffs Despite Inflation Concerns; "Lockerbie: The Bombing of Pan Am Flight 103" Premiers Sunday at 9PM; Zelenskyy Warns The Days Of U.S. Guaranteed Support For Europe Are Over; Dovile Sakaliene, Lithuanian Minister Of National Defense, Discusses U.S. Guaranteed Support for Europe. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired February 15, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

[13:00:00]

ADRIAN SIMANCAS, KAYAKER "SWALLOWED" BY A WHALE: -- two dark colors and white flashing right through my face and I felt a slimy texture in my cheek and then it shot down on me and took me underwater. I closed my eyes because I thought that something would crash into my face.

It was like one second of that strange feeling where I thought that I was already eaten by some kind of giant fish. But then I started to feel my water vest that was pulling me outside of the water.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Unbelievable. And after a few terrifying seconds, he went on to describe, you know that Adrian was back on the surface swimming toward his dad's pack raft. And when asked about if they would keep on kayaking? Yes, they both said, of course.

All right, hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right, today, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy warned his European neighbors that the days of guaranteed U.S. support for the continent are over. He's now calling for a united Europe to face Russian aggression, urging leaders at a security conference in Munich Germany to band together to create a united European army.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE: Three years of full-scale war have proven that we already have the foundation for a united European military force. And now, as we fight this war and lay the groundwork for peace and security, we must build the Armed Forces of Europe so that Europe's future depends only on Europeans.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

WHITFIELD: Wow. The remarkable development coming just days after a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and President Donald Trump raising fears in Kyiv that Ukraine was being frozen out of negotiations with the White House as President Trump pushes to end Russia's three-year war with Ukraine.

Trump's Russia-Ukraine envoy saying just moments ago that Europe will not be part of the peace negotiations. Zelenskyy sat down with our own Christiane Amanpour at that gathering of U.S. and European leaders in Germany.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Here at the Munich security conference day two was sharply different from day one when JD Vance, the U.S. Vice President's speech went down like a lead balloon to the assembled delegates.

It was a scold, it was much more about culture wars. They interpreted as it being really much more ideological. They were surprised. There was very little that Vance said about Ukraine about Russia.

Now President Zelenskyy of Ukraine has addressed the delegates and his speech went down and was interrupted many times by applause. He called for a strong Europe. Be said Putin doesn't want peace. We need to make him actually come to a table where there's a serious plan that is something that he can actually sign on to that doesn't mean our surrender and that doesn't mean that Putin is able to pull the wool over let's say Trump's eyes.

He talked very, very lengthily with me during an aside interview on stage about what his conversations with President Trump has been and what he needs from the Americans, including to have him, himself, meet with President Trump before Trump goes off to meet with Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ZELENSKYY: For the dialogue between Trump and Putin and I think this is -- I mean, this it's up to them but they can discuss everything they want but not about Ukraine without us. I'm not happy. I mean, yes, but I think that more dangerous if first meeting will be with Putin and then with Ukraine.

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AMANPOUR: Zelenskyy thanked the U.S. for its continued support. It hasn't taken military aid off the table for now, so he thanked the United States for that. But talking on the sidelines with Democratic and Republican senators represented here, they felt that the American speeches, the American presence here was kind of a missed opportunity because they believe that of all people, the United States must send a strong message to Russia. And to anyone else, for instance, China who's watching what happens out of Ukraine and how it's settled. The U.S. must send a strong message that it stands for the principles and the values of democracy, the rules of the road, international borders, and with the transatlantic alliance.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in Munich. Back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, Christiane, thank you so much.

All right, also new today, Hamas releasing three more Israeli hostages as part of the ceasefire deal including one Israeli-American. Here's the moment he was reunited with his wife.

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(Speaking in Foreign Language)

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[13:05:19]

WHITFIELD: Israel says it released 369 Palestinian prisoners and detainees as part of this round of the ceasefire agreement. 24 of them are being exiled to Egypt.

President Trump has been talking about today's hostage release all week, a warning that if things didn't go smoothly on the Hamas side, quoting now, "All hell is going to break out," end quote.

CNN's Betsy Klein is with us now with reaction from the White House. Betsy, take us through what the president has been saying.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: That's exactly right, Fredricka. President Trump clearly monitoring the situation quite closely from Mar-a-Lago where he is this weekend announcing early this morning in a post to social media that those three hostages had been released by Hamas including one American citizen.

And Trump said in that social media post that all three, quote, "Seem to be in good shape". Now all of this comes right after earlier this week as Hamas had threatened to postpone the release of those three hostages and Trump had issued somewhat of an ultimatum saying that Hamas should release all of the remaining hostages.

And if they didn't, that Israel should, quote, "let hell break out". But Trump clearly giving Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a little bit of cover to do whatever he sees fit going forward. Here's what he had to tell reporters in the Oval Office last -- just yesterday saying that the ball is firmly in Israel's court right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow at 12:00. It was up to me. I'd take a very hard stance. I can't tell you what Israel's going to do now. I would take a different stance but it depends. Look it depends what Bibi's going to do. It depends what Israel is going to do. But -- and now I understand they've totally changed. Hamas has totally changed. They want to release hostages now again.

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KLEIN: Now, Netanyahu's office is actually giving Trump a lot of credit for what they described as his clear and unequivocal statement earlier this week. They said today that it helped push Hamas to release those hostages.

But of course, the future of this ceasefire deal which was negotiated during the Biden administration of course in close coordination with then incoming Trump special envoy Steve Witkoff is so uncertain. Trump himself has cast a lot of uncertainty about the future of this second and third stage of this deal.

Now, as of today, Hamas has released 19 hostages. The first phase of the deal is set to expire on March 1st. Now all of this comes as Trump has repeatedly doubled down this week on his plans to redevelop Gaza and relocate Palestinians. Of course that proposal has been roundly rejected by leaders in the region with the exception of course of Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu.

But top Trump advisers so far have said that this is just an opening salvo intended to get regional players to the negotiating table to talk about the future of Gaza, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Betsy Klein, thank you so much.

All right, the Trump administration is also full steam ahead with plans to slash the size of the U.S. federal government. Thousands of government workers are out of a job today, most of which are probationary workers who have typically been employed for less than a year. More than 200,000 workers fall into that category.

CNN's Rene Marsh has more.

RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Labor unions representing federal employees are still trying to get their hands around the full scope and scale of the Trump administration's government wide firings. But so far we know, more than a thousand were fired from Veterans Affairs.

Trump's V.A. Secretary Doug Collins said it would save the agency $98 million a year. 2,000 were dismissed at the Energy Department, nearly 1,300 at the Centers for Disease Control, 2,200 at the Interior Department, and 3,400 at the Forest Service. And that's an agency that manages the nation's public forests and grasslands to reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfires.

Now Trump has talked a lot about clearing forest floors to combat wildfires. And while the firefighting unit of the Forest Service was not laid off, employees with desk jobs and those who clear trails were. And at a time when wildfires have become more frequent and intense, those employees often serve as reserve crews, that the agency can tap into when they need more manpower.

One Forest Service source tells me, now, they may likely have to rely on backup from private contractors which comes at a much higher cost. And at the V.A. one of the employees fired worked at a vet center. That's a community based clinic that helps vets seeking mental health care.

[13:10:08]

And at the Department of Energy, hundreds of staffers at the National Nuclear Security Administration, the agency tasked with managing the nation's nuclear stockpile were also dismissed. But the agency made an about face and began rescinding terminations after senators expressed concerns about the critical nature of these employees and the impact on national security.

WHITFIELD: Rene Marsh. Thank you so much, Rene.

All right, joining me right now to talk more about these developments is Julian Zelizer. He's a CNN political analyst and a historian and professor at Princeton University. Julian, great to see you. So, I just realized, I'm always calling you Julian, I really should be calling you professor.

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No, actually, it's fine.

WHITFIELD: You're a professor at Princeton.

OK. All right. So Trump said, you know, his priority is immigration and inflation. But his focus is, as you put it in your new foreign policy column, war on the administrative state. This was a stated dream of former Trump administration adviser Steve Bannon. So what is the end game here?

ZELIZER: Well the end game is to dismantle as much of government as possible. I mean this really goes back to Ronald Reagan's inaugural address when he said government is not the solution to our problems, it's the problem. That's a paraphrase.

And I think it's unclear the end game is to reform government or to make it more efficient although that's some of the rhetoric. But a lot of what's happening is dismantling and taking apart agencies so they can't really be functional or they can't even be put back together as is the risk with USAID.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And how did the federal government worker become the enemy, you know, to this extent, you know, and lose protections that were put in place a long time ago?

ZELIZER: Yes, in the 1880s. I mean, there has been efforts to either cut down government or purge government in the Cold War. There are efforts to purge people who were said to be anti-communist. Richard Nixon in the early 70s had a secret plan to try to replace civil servants with loyalists.

And Reagan famously fired air traffic controllers after a strike in 1981. And then you have efforts like Clinton who does cut down the size of the federal government to reform it and make it more efficient. But I think this is really connected to a longstanding attack on government.

It's not just government that you can't trust. According to a lot of conservatives, it's government workers. And this is a culmination of all of that.

WHITFIELD: So now among the Trump plan detractors on Capitol Hill, former Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. He voted against confirmation of HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., reflecting on the necessity of medicine, vaccines in his own battle with polio.

McConnell condemned Trump after January 6th but then went back to supporting Trump. So who's the real McConnell? What's going on here?

ZELIZER: I think the record speaks for itself. Right now clearly, he's taking a stand knowing it won't change the outcome of confirmations. I think the real test of a profile in courage comes when a senator or representative has power rather than when he's out of that position of power.

So, this is really symbolic. I think the test came years ago. And frankly, Senator McConnell stood by President Trump and led to the election of 2024. So many cynics I think will look at it that way. And many of his critics will say this is much too late.

WHITFIELD: All right. Julian Zelizer, we'll leave it there for now. Thank you so much.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, millions of people are preparing for potentially historic flooding, severe thunderstorms, and tornadoes as a powerful storm pushes towards the East Coast. The cities that could see the worst of it, next.

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[13:18:47]

WHITFIELD: Powerful storm is bringing severe weather to the eastern half of the U.S. this weekend from the Deep South all the way to Pennsylvania. Kentucky has already issued a state of emergency and Texas activated the state's emergency response resources ahead of potentially life threatening flooding.

The storm is expected to hit peak strength overnight into Sunday morning. CNN's Allison Chinchar has the latest forecast from the CNN Weather Center.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, the most widespread concern out of this system is definitely going to be the flooding and it extends from Arkansas all the way up through western Pennsylvania. But within that area, this spot right here, this pink colored that you see here, this is where we have a level 4 out of 4, a high risk for excessive rainfall.

Just to emphasize, these are rare. They only occur on about 4 percent of the days throughout the year. But they're responsible for 40 percent of flood-related deaths and 80 percent of the flood-related damage. So this is a significant concern especially as we go through the evening and overnight hours tonight.

In addition to flooding, there's also the potential for severe thunderstorms. We're talking damaging winds and the potential for some tornadoes. This exists across portions of the southeast. So Nashville, Birmingham, Atlanta even down through Mobile.

[13:20:01]

The timeline for a lot of these storms you notice a lot of those showers and thunderstorms fire up in the back half of the day and continue through the evening and the overnight hours, which means make sure before you go to bed tonight, you have a way to get those emergency alerts on your phone to wake you in case something happens.

Then you'll also start to see more of that moisture begin to spread into portions of the mid-Atlantic and even into the northeast as we head into the very early hours of Sunday. A lot of the cold weather aspects, the wintry mix, the ice, the snow, that lingers through much of the day Sunday.

The rest of the system however really starts to exit most of these areas maybe with the exception of Maine by the time we get to the back half of the day on Sunday. Overall widespread amounts of these rainfall you're looking at 2 to 4 inches but it's not out of the question for some spots to pick up half a foot of rain.

On the snow side of this, the heaviest is certainly going to be in interior New England especially in the green and white mountains where at least a foot of snow could fall.

WHITFIELD: All right, Allison Chinchar, thanks so much.

All right, President Trump making a plan for even more tariffs on America's trading partners. What that could mean for your wallet, next.

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WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. President Donald Trump is doubling down on his push for more balanced trade. On Thursday, he ordered economic advisers to come up with plans to impose reciprocal tariffs across the board matching what other nations including U.S. allies charge for imports.

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TRUMP: India traditionally is the highest -- just about the highest tariffed country. They charge more tariffs than any other country. And, I mean, we'll be talking about that. But again whatever they charge us, we're charging them. So it works out very well.

It's very -- it's a beautiful simple system. And we don't have to worry about you charging too much or too little.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

WHITFIELD: Here with us now is Dimitris Tsarouhas. He is a visiting associate professor and a member of the Outreach and Engagement Committee for the Center for European and Transatlantic Studies at Virginia Tech. Great to see you.

So the president as we heard right there he said it's a beautiful simple plan. Are reciprocal tariffs really that simple and beautiful?

DIMITRIS TSAROUHAS, VISITING ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, CENTER FOR EUROPEAN AND TRANSATLANTIC STUDIES AT VIRGINIA TECH: Well, first of all, thanks for having me. I think it's not going to be all that simple as the president claimed right there. Of course we need to mention that this comes on the back of already made announcements about the imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum.

We know that the president negotiated with Mexico and Canada before. So the imposition of tariffs was then withdrawn. And we also know that another 10 percent has been imposed on China already.

Now, all of this matches the pattern of the first Trump administration. This reciprocal tariffs however are a bit different. They are more complicated and they invite the possibility of other nations doing the same which may lead to lower levels of economic growth and a slowdown of commercial trade across the world.

WHITFIELD: So Trump will decide on April 2nd when and if he wants to enact any of the new recommended tariffs. How soon before this floodgate of tariffs and reciprocal tariffs impacts our wallets?

TSAROUHAS: As the president has already said, Americans are going to feel a pinch. And I think that this is probably going to take a few more months. We know that the inflation data that came in suggests that there is a persistent core of inflationary pressure and it's very likely that these new measures are not going to do anything to take this away.

So it's going to be a few weeks still. But I think that depending on the sort of deals that the administration is going to be able to make with the likes of India, we heard the president mentioned India, then you've got the likes of Japan and the European Union.

These are big trading blocks. They are likely to try and retaliate or bring equivalent levels of tariffs. So this is -- we're going to feel the pinch pretty soon.

WHITFIELD: So while Trump, you know, seems to say that he's punishing certain countries for a variety of things from immigration to cheating America, he also says these tariffs will reduce America's ever rising debt. When could the U.S. see all of this money. the president is promising? And where would that money go? TSAROUHAS: So the president is committed to the idea of reducing the trade deficit which in and by itself I think is a very noble idea. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And at the same time, the idea of imposing tariffs on national security grounds is something that other nations do as well.

Now, the problem here is you can't really generate all that income simply by imposing those tariffs. Something else will need to kick in. And probably what the administration has in mind is strengthening those parts of say American manufacturing that have been lagging behind before and expected economic growth rates are going to compensate for some of the tariffs that will come in.

Now the extent to which these will be big enough is actually quite questionable right now. And as I said before, I think a lot will depend on what other nations will decide to do too.

WHITFIELD: And do you believe this is the beginning of a global trade war?

TSAROUHAS: I'm not sure it's going to be a trade war as such. What I'm certain about is that the administration is going to strike unilateral deals with countries. We heard the president talk about India. They're very likely to try and do the same with what used to be like minded nations like Japan and South Korea.

War is not so much a global trade war as a formation of regional trading blocks, say the America is on the one hand, Asia on the other, Europe on the other, which is going to reduce aggregate welfare throughout the global economy and which is something that everyone including Americans are going to feel in their pocket later down.

WHITFIELD: So trade blocks then. Who wins in something like that?

TSAROUHAS: So I'm not sure that everyone is going to win on the aggregate. The new policy, the reciprocal tariffs, Frederica, that the president has talked about is a policy that flies in the face of World Trade Organization rules.

Now, certainly, the United States hasn't always been abiding by those WTO rules, but it was the country, along with the Europeans, that created the organization in the first place.

Believing that the benefit from a free trade policy, right, and especially the Western world, the Western bloc was able to benefit from it.

Now, the president has campaigned consistently on the idea of fair trade. And fair trade comes at a cost. And the extent to which you will be able to mitigate that cost down the line is still something very uncertain.

WHITFIELD: All right. Demetrius Tsarouhas, thank you so much for your time and expertise.

TSAROUHAS: Thank you so much. WHITFIELD: All right. One South Carolina company is using real

feathers to make bow ties that are showing up on the red carpet. That's todays "START SMALL, THINK BIG."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN ROSE, CO-FOUNDER, BRACKISH: I was searching for a gift that could incorporate a touch of the outdoors. When the day for my wedding was coming up, I went to the drawing board of how to incorporate feathers.

One day, I happened to lay a turkey feather next to a bow tie, and I saw the shape that fit the bow tie shape, was the a-ha light bulb moment of the turkey feather bow tie.

JEFF PLOTNER, CO-FOUNDER, BRACKISH: Then gifted these feather bow ties to myself and the other groomsmen.

I called up Ben and said, hey, I think you got a really good idea that more people need to see.

We started with this one bow tie design and we have expanded to well over 400 different designs.

ROSE: All of our products here at Brackish are made from feathers, and they range from peacocks and guineas to turkeys and quail. No bird has ever been harmed by us to obtain a single feather.

Our feathers are sourced in two different ways, through molt or byproduct of other industries that were already harvesting those birds to go to the farm-to-table movement.

PLOTNER: We have a small team that's hand-making everything, and there is no substitute for hand selecting every feather, one by one. And it makes every single piece that we make very personal and unique.

ROSE: To repurpose the beauty of Mother Nature is one of the core things that we do here at Brackish.

PLOTNER: We've had our products seen at the Oscars, on the red carpet, with Bill Murray to Blake Lively, Andy Samberg, Don Cheadle.

ROSE: We will continue to push the form, fashion and feather boundaries until somebody says stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[13:37:12]

WHITFIELD: All right. A new CNN original series explores the circumstances behind the bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in December of 1988.

The attack took the lives of 270 people, including 35 Syracuse University students who were heading home for Christmas following study abroad.

The series includes interviews with family members of some of the victims, such as the mother and brother of Syracuse student, Alexander Lowenstein.

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UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER OF ALEANDER LOWENSTEIN: This is Alexander's jacket that was found in the wreckage. And as you can tell, the holes, the burn holes.

Of course, there's a little tiny "A" in here somewhere. He put this "A" into all his clothing.

And every once in a while, when it gets chilly in here, I actually put it on and feel good about it.

Each item, no matter how shredded or full of holes or burned it was, it was laundered, ironed and wrapped in tissue paper.

And there was a great, great deed that the Lockerbie people did for us. We will be forever grateful for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh. That is so touching.

Joining us now is Lucas Lowenstein.

Lucas, great to see you.

I mean, just listening --

LUCAS LOWENSTEIN, BROTHER KILLED ON PAN AM 103: Thank you for having me.

WHITFIELD: -- to your mom there, I mean, how -- how -- how touching.

It's incredible to see and hear from her how the Lockerbie community came together to help those affected by this tragedy.

What do you remember most about those initial days after the attack, how people from all over the world came together to support each other and your family?

LOWENSTEIN: Well, I remember, specifically, that the people of Lockerbie were tremendous. They -- they -- you know, in the case of my brother Alexander, his body was - was found relatively early. And the folks in Lockerbie took very good care of -- of him and in the collection of his belongings.

And back then, the U.S. government didn't really have anything set up for victims of something like this. So we were sort of flying blind.

And at the time, we were speaking with Pan Am, and they also didn't really have anything to say to us. So the -- the people that really made us feel less terrible were the

-- the people of Lockerbie, who were also, you know, going through, you know, their own tragedy.

[13:39:58]

This plane had fallen into their little village, killing a number of their people as well. But as -- as my mom just pointed out in -- in that piece, you just showed, you know, they -- they sent us back his belongings.

And the condition of some of his belongings were tattered, ripped, burned. And they ironed them. They washed them and they ironed them, and they folded them with love, and, you know, sent us back each and every piece, which, you know, was tremendous, very comforting, you know, at the time.

WHITFIELD: So -- so take me even further back. You know, how you first learned about what happened to Pan Am flight and to your brother and the others on board.

LOWENSTEIN: Well, as luck or as luck would have it, I was a Syracuse University student as well. So I was actually at Syracuse University taking a final exam and in a big auditorium.

And I looked up to the front of the auditorium and saw one of my roommates speaking with my professor and sort of pointing toward me. And then my roommate came down -- came to the aisle that I was in, sort of nudged his way in and said, you know, hey, Lucas, you got to call your parents.

And I was in the middle of a final exam. I said, you know, I will. He said, no, no, you have to call them now. So I knew, obviously, that something -- something bad had happened.

So I was able to leave the final exam. You know, back then, it was before cell phones. I had to find a phone. And then I was able to reach my -- my parents.

And my mom answered the phone and just said, you know, Lucas, your -- your brother's plane, it -- it crashed.

WHITFIELD: Oh my gosh.

LOWENSTEIN: You know how soon -- how soon can you come home? And that started the -- the rest of our lives, which, obviously, were significantly changed from that point forward.

WHITFIELD: Just listening to your mom and how, you know, close she remains, you know, with your brother by occasionally putting on the jacket. I mean that that is so touching to hear.

I'm wondering what -- what do you want people to know about your brother? His experience as a, you know, exchange student. his journey home and -- and all that came to be. LOWENSTEIN: Well, you know, he was -- he was such a good guy. You

know, he -- he was full of love. Didn't have a mean -- mean bone in his body.

And was studying abroad, you know, with -- with a number of other folks and got caught up in -- some in, in this case, in Libya, in Colonel Gaddafi's desire to blow up an American airliner.

And he had nothing to do with any of that. He was just coming home for Christmas after a great semester abroad.

And he was a great guy, a happy guy, always smiling. Very, very popular. And you know, taken from us, you know, way too early and sort of destroyed, you know -- I don't want to say destroyed our lives, but certainly negatively impacted the rest of our lives.

My parents -- my parents died that day. And they -- they continued to breathe but my parents, they died that day. And, yes.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

LOWENSTEIN: But he was a great guy. I mean, what can you say? He's -- you know, he really, really special, very, very special, fun-loving, "happy go lucky" guy who would have made a -- I'm sure, would have made a real positive impact on -- on the world.

He had a lot of energy and a lot of great ideas and would have certainly positively impacted the world if he had lived.

WHITFIELD: Powerful.

Thank you so much for sharing your memories of your brother. Your -- your family --

LOWENSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Your family imparting their memories as well in this entire experience.

Lucas Lowenstein, thank you so much.

The first of two episodes of "LOCKERBIE --

LOWENSTEIN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: -- THE BOMBING OF PAN AM FLIGHT 103" premieres tomorrow, 9:00 p.m., only on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: The old days are over when America supported Europe just because it always had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:44:23] WHITFIELD: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy issuing a stern warning to his European allies, telling them that their futures are also on the line. How leaders in Europe are responding, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is warning his European neighbors that the days of guaranteed U.S. support for the continent are over.

He's now suggesting Europe needs to unite in the face of aggression from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Zelenskyy, even calling for the creation of a European army.

Let's get reaction now from Dovile Sakaliene. She is Lithuania's defense minister, and she is in Munich for this major security conference.

Minister, great to see you again.

So Zelenskyy said it loud and clear, Europe can no longer count on the U.S. That was pretty bold. How unsettled are Europeans?

DOVILE SAKALIENE, LITHUANIAN MINISTER OF NATIONAL DEFENSE: Well, I think that devil is in the detail sometimes. And the message was not that United States is abandoning us, but that - that -- not that United States are abandoning Europe, but that Europe needs to pull its own weight.

[13:50:09]

And as I said during this discussion, in 24 hours, my colleagues and I, well, probably, we didn't expect United States to cover everything.

But at least most of my colleagues realized that it's not going to be according to the scenario where United States defend Europe. It's going to be that Europe is going to defend itself with the help of United States.

And, yes, that changes the picture considerably. And that shows that the moment of payment of the debt of over seven decades came now, and with high interest and without a possibility of delay.

But this is a good thing, because we are now living in the times where fast decisions are necessary, both in putting money on the table, both in developing defense industry, and both in standing our ground very firmly.

Because there are at least two people who are planning to overthrow those borders, who are planning to overthrow the world order. That's Mr. Putin and Mr. Xi.

WHITFIELD: So if I hear you correctly, you said European countries do still believe that they could rely on some help from the U.S. But it sounds less of the kind of partnership of the past. SAKALIENE: That's not what I said. I said that Europe has been living

under the illusion that United States are going to come and defend us. But now we are on the same page with understanding that Europe will defend itself with help, with contribution of United States.

And both Secretary Hegseth said during our talks in Brussels, where during discussions or my several brief personal conversations repeated that the United States are not going to abandon Europe.

United States wants Europe to grow its own military muscle very fast, and want us to be partners, actual partners. If somebody relies on somebody, that's not partnership, that's dependance.

We need to be partners because both in the Pacific and Europe has become as close as never before. And Taiwan Strait and Ukraine are going to go according quite similar scenario, because China is going to coordinate with Russia.

And when United States will need to face China, if Europe is weak, then it will be not only in jeopardy from Russia, but it will also not be able to stand beside United States.

And that's what -- that's what we need. U.S. needs Europe, and Europe needs U.S., both financially, economically and militarily.

WHITFIELD: I appreciate that clarification.

So Ukraine's Zelenskyy says, you know, he will meet with the United States, Europe and then Russia.

But then we just heard Trump's Ukraine-Russian envoy, Keith Kellogg, say that Europe will not be at the negotiating table. What's your reaction to that?

SAKALIENE: Well, I think that, in the past four days, we've heard a lot of messages. Some of them were very consistent, such as that Europe needs to pay for its defense right now.

But some of them were quite different. I don't want to say conflicting, but different because from different officials in the current U.S. administration and President Donald Trump himself, we've heard a little bit different versions of what is going to happen.

But what we've heard from president and vice president that Europe will be in negotiations.

And also it would be quite -- I'm sorry. It would be quite difficult to imagine negotiations without a partner who is going to bear, at least part, if not the lion's share of responsibilities regarding security guarantees.

And also a partner whose future is directly affected by the decisions made regarding Ukraine. Because we all understand that Russia is forming its army -- Russia forming new military districts next to the borders of NATO, Europe.

He's not going to stop in Ukraine. Well, at least not now. He definitely doesn't plan to stop now.

WHITFIELD: Yes. So then what are your concerns for your country and for the region if Russia continues to hear so many conflicting messages that are coming from the U.S.?

SAKALIENE: Also, let's be realistic. This is not a P.R. campaign and this is not a television series. This is a very difficult process.

And we are in a very beginning of this process of starting to find certain agreement on what is going to happen this year in Ukraine and with Ukraine.

[13:55:08]

And therefore, we must accept that there will be different messages in the coming days and weeks and maybe even months.

What is more important than those words is our actions. So our decisions regarding putting money on the table, regarding growing military muscle, regarding investment in our own defense industry, Ukrainian defense industry.

And also our very serious decisions on how we, as Europe, are going to see ourselves as a power and not as a beggar. And that is the most important issue that we need to resolve right now.

WHITFIELD: Minister of National Defense of Lithuania Dovile Sakaliene, thank you so much for your time.

SAKALIENE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Back in the U.S., more than 1,000 employees at the CDC are on the chopping block as the Trump administration fires thousands of federal employees. How workers are reacting to the aggressive government downsizing.

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