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Trump Administration's Russia-Ukraine Envoy Announce Europe Will Not be Party in Negotiations to End War in Ukraine; Workers at Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and Other Federal Government Agencies Targeted for Termination; Rains in Southern California Cause Mudslides in Areas Devastated by Recent Wildfires; Department of Justice Files Motion to Dismiss Federal Corruption Charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams; President Trump Issues Executive Order Directing Economic Advisers to Devise Plans for Reciprocal Tariffs with All U.S. Trading Partners; Former Education Secretary under President Obama Interviewed on Donald Trump Calling for Department of Education to be Closed; NBA All-Star Weekend Commences in San Francisco Bay Area. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired February 15, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, and thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Just moments ago, the Trump administration's Russia-Ukraine envoy announced that Europe will not be at the negotiating table when the U.S. tries to end the war in Ukraine. This comes just hours after Ukrainian President Zelenskyy warned his European neighbors that the days of guaranteed U.S. support for the continent are over. He's calling for a united Europe to face Russian aggression, and urging leaders to band together to create a united European army.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Three years of full scale war have proven that we already have the foundation for a united European military force. And now, as we fight this war and lay the groundwork for peace and security, we must build the armed forces of Europe so that Europe's future depends only on Europeans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Alex Marquardt is joining us now from Munich. Alex, Zelenskyy sounded a pretty stark warning today about the American relationship with Europe. What more did he say there?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fredricka, this was a remarkable speech. It was a rallying cry. It was a call to arms for Europe, essentially saying that the dependance that Europe has had with the United States, the reliance on that American support, is now over. He said very clearly that there could come a day when Europe is threatened and would need American support, and that the U.S. could simply say no. He named J.D. Vance. He pointed to the vice president's comments

yesterday, a blistering speech that the vice president gave chastising, scolding European countries, their leaders, their democracies as evidence that that the decades of the old relationship between the between Europe and the U.S. is ending, he said. And Europe needs to adjust to this new reality. Here's a little bit more of what Zelenskyy said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Time in Europe may not fully understand what's happening in Washington right now, but let's focus on understanding ourselves right here in Europe. We must give strength to Europe first. Does America need Europe as a market? Yes. But as an ally, I don't know.

A few days ago, President Trump told me about his conversation with Putin. Not once did he mention that America needs Europe at the table. That says a lot. The old days are over when America supported Europe just because it always had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And so, as a result, Zelenskyy said, it is now time for Europe to create a joint army, something that he called the armed forces for Europe. He said that is not to replace the NATO alliance, but simply to build up the European power so that its more on par with the United States. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Now, Alex, of course, we are hearing the U.S. kind of firm up that notion that Europe does not need to be at the negotiating table. What's the argument that the Trump administration is trying to make here?

MARQUARDT: Well, this is coming from retired General Keith Kellogg, who is Trump's special envoy for Russia and Ukraine. And he was asked very pointedly today in these negotiations that the U.S. is putting together, what role will Europe play? After all, Ukraine is in Europe, and it is Europe that will pay the consequences, suffer the consequences if Russia feels emboldened to do more.

And Kellogg was very blunt, and he said that the Europeans will not be at the table. He said that he comes to places like Munich. He has conversations with the Europeans in order to hear their positions, hear their stances, and that those will be incorporated into the negotiations between the Ukrainians and the Russians.

[14:05:01]

But he said very bluntly, the Europeans do not have a role. And so you can imagine how well that is going over. For his part, President Zelenskyy said that when it comes to Ukraine, this is this is about Ukraine's fate, so it is Ukraine who will decide who is at the table. But really quite remarkable statements from General Keith Kellogg, Fred. WHITFIELD: Right. This is just one of a variety of messages that is

coming from the U.S. just over the course of a couple of days during this security conference in Munich. What's been the response from European allies?

MARQUARDT: A lot of criticism about the U.S. already making concessions before these negotiations start. The word "appeasement" was used by the top foreign policy official of the European Union. That was a reference primarily, I think, to remarks made earlier this week by the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, who said there would not be U.S. troops in Ukraine, that security guarantees for Ukraine would have to be guaranteed primarily by the Europeans, that Ukraine would not join NATO. That's something that's been echoed by President Trump himself, who also said that Russia should be brought back into the G-8, which they were kicked out of when they invaded Ukraine back in 2014.

So there's a lot of frustration that Trump is moving closer to the Russian positions. J.D. Vance, who was the top U.S. official here, was less stringent about exactly what the U.S. is going to do. He said that he wants to maintain essentially all put, all keep all options on the table for these negotiations. But there's a lot of confusion, if not frustration, Fred, about the varying message -- messages from the Trump administration, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Alex Marquardt, thank you so much.

All right, CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is in Moscow with Russia's reaction to the mixed messaging that they're hearing from the Trump administration on Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Russians also seem to be trying to figure out what exactly to make of the Trump administration a couple of days after what the Russians deemed to be a very successful phone call between U.S. president Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, essentially paving the way for possible peace talks to try and end the war in Ukraine, but also for a possible direct meeting between Putin and Trump in a third country.

The Russians now hearing from J.D. Vance, the U.S. vice president, in an interview with "The Wall Street Journal", essentially threatening the Russians that if they don't sign on to a peace deal, that the U.S. would have both economic and military levers at its disposal to try and get the Russians to come to the negotiating table and to get to some sort of agreement.

Now, I texted the spokesman for the Kremlin, Dmitry Peskov, about all this, and he texted back that he was hoping and the Russians were hoping to clarify everything through direct contacts, meaning obviously, the Russians want to get in direct contact with the Trump administration. Now, that is, of course, already happening. The Russians are saying they're already trying to put together and putting together teams for possible negotiations for an end to the war in Ukraine.

But the main thing for the Russians, the first thing that they want to achieve, they say, is a direct face to face meeting between President Vladimir Putin of Russia and the U.S. President Donald Trump. Now, we heard from the Trump administration that they believe that such a meeting could take place in Saudi Arabia. The Russians have not yet confirmed that, but they are saying that they are already putting teams together to try and set something like that in motion. And the spokesman for the Kremlin also said that he believes that a meeting like that could take place within a matter of weeks, at most within a matter of a few months.

Now, the Russians are cautioning, though, that any sort of way to an end to the war in Ukraine might not be as easy as President Trump may have let on before taking office, and shortly after taking office. The Russians are saying that there are a lot of issues for them, that they simply will not budge from. One of the ones, and this was also set out by the Kremlin spokesman, is the territory that Ukraine currently holds inside of Russia, in the Kursk region, where the Russians are saying they want to militarily oust the Ukrainians from that territory. They do not want that to be part of negotiations going forward.

And then, of course, there is also the question of all the territory that the Russians hold inside of Ukraine and the question of possible Ukrainian NATO membership in the future. Of course, there again, we've heard mixed messages coming from the Trump administration, some Trump officials saying they do not believe that Ukraine will be a part of NATO, others saying that it is something that might happen in the future. The Russians certainly also wanting to clarify that.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, back in this country, thousands of government employees are out of work today. It's the latest move in a series of layoffs by the Trump administration. The cuts seem to be everywhere across several agencies, including the IRS, Forest Service, the CDC, even the National Nuclear Security Administration, which sources tell CNN officials did not seem to know that the agency oversees Americas nuclear weapons, and the terminations there had to be rescinded the next day.

[14:10:14]

CNN's Rafael Romo is joining me right now. So, the CDC was one of the agents hit particularly hard with nearly, what, one-tenth of the agency's workforce targeted. What are you learning?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Yes, that's right. And somebody was describing Friday to me as a Valentine's Day massacre. Just imagine how hard that must have hit a lot of people. And there's a lot of fear and anxiety, Fred, especially given what one CDC employee who would like to remain unidentified, for obvious reasons, told me yesterday that this may only be the beginning and that the cuts may be deep and widespread. At the CDC alone, about 1,300 employees could lose their jobs. According to a CNN source. One of those departments is a unit that has investigated public health threats here in the U.S. and abroad, including COVID-19.

We've also learned that at least one member of Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency visited the Internal Revenue Service offices in Washington on Thursday as part of its mission to downsize government agencies. Trump administration officials fired more than 300 staffers Thursday night at the National Nuclear Security Administration, the agency tasked with managing the nation's nuclear stockpile, although the terminations, as you mentioned, Fred, were rescinded after the full scope of their mission became clear.

For obvious reasons, many federal employees we got in touch with are afraid to speak on camera about what they're going through. But earlier we had a chance to speak with someone who has already received the fork in the road email and wanted to make clear that she was talking to us in a personal capacity, and not on behalf of any agency or union. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: When you hear statements from both President Trump and Elon Musk saying that the federal government is full of waste, its full of fraud, that it needs to be trimmed down, what comes to mind?

MT SNYDER, FEDERAL EMPLOYEE: Well, so I was one of many workers who received an email from the Office of Personnel Management that said, resign now or get fired later. That's not a choice. That's a threat. That's a coup. That's a hostile takeover of the government by billionaires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, also, Rafael, I understand that you have obtained several internal emails from the CDC about the layoffs and what their lives are like. What are you learning?

ROMO: They're very revealing, Fred. Some deal with the terminations, as you would expect. Others target diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. But the Trump administration is terminating. One message, it's a not so veiled threat against some workers. It reads in part, "We are aware of efforts by some in government to disguise these programs by using coded or imprecise language. There will be no adverse consequences for timely reporting this information. However, failure to report this information within 10 days may result in adverse consequences." On Thursday, Elon Musk defended his actions by saying that, quote, "The people voted for major government reform and that's what people are going to get." That's the explanation so far that they've given.

WHITFIELD: Very ominous. All right, Rafael Romo, thank you so much.

All right, federal prosecutors resign following the Justice Department's decision to drop corruption charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. We'll discuss the fallout with a former judge straight ahead.

Also, heavy rain triggers floods and mudslides in the burned out areas in southern California. We'll show you the aftermath.

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[14:18:34]

WHITFIELD: Flood waters are already rising in Kentucky as a powerful storm makes its way eastward this weekend. This was the scene just a few hours ago near the Kentucky-Tennessee border with roads and cars quickly submerged. The system is expected to bring tornadoes, flash flooding, even ice, and will intensify in the overnight hours.

CNNs Julia Vargas Jones is live for us in Malibu, California, where officials there are cleaning up after that same storm system brought mudslides and debris flows to areas affected by last month's deadly wildfires there in southern California. So, Julia, what are we seeing?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, we just saw a crew of workers open this gate for this property. We were speaking with the owner earlier, Lynn (ph). She said that this is the first time that she was seeing this. Ten trucks of mud is the estimate from the firefighters here, that's how much has gone into her property.

It's scary and, honestly, kind of surprising, Fred, to see how much damage this can actually make in a property. This was a flower shop and a plant shop. These are the men that just did this and opened for this business owner to be able to get back into her business. It might not look that dramatic, perhaps, but this is pretty deep going into her property that had actually been safe from the fires just up this hill. This is where the Palisades fire burned down all of the vegetation.

[14:20:04]

Now, this barren land that's why so much mud and debris was able to flow down. And this is the Pacific Coast Highway, we're literally just across the street from the Pacific Ocean. This is where I was speaking to you earlier today from this iconic restaurant, literally just across the street. This is the extent of the damage, but it's partially because all of this debris and mud was flowing through across the PCH and into the other side.

I spoke with the firefighters just moments ago, and they explained that the damage into this restaurant was actually from the mud going in and out the other way. She also said that the danger is still not over. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHLOE CASTILLO, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, CALFIRE: The residents have definitely been on edge. They know that this area, when it, when the rain comes, it's going to be susceptible to mudslides. It's important that they heed the warning when they're told that there is a potential for a mudslide and just make sure that stuff is packed and ready to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Now it's starting to be a very common refrain for us to hear, right, just to be ready to go and evacuate in the Los Angeles area. Another concern, Fred, also the toxicity. What is it that is in this mud? Things that Los Angeles residents are asking themselves and of their authorities still.

WHITFIELD: Yes, it's a pretty horrible mix going on. Julia Vargas Jones in Malibu, thank you so much.

All right, coming up, federal prosecutors resign after refusing to drop corruption charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. A former judge weighs in on what this could mean for the immediate future of Adams and the Justice Department.

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[14:26:06]

WHITFIELD: All right, following months of legal uncertainty for New York Mayor Eric Adams, the Department of Justice has now filed a motion to dismiss all federal corruption charges against him. The move prompting several DOJ officials to resign. CNN's Brian Todd looks at how the mayor went from a Trump critic to a Trump ally.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mayor, can you reassure me --

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The embattled 64-year-old New York mayor being intensely scrutinized tonight for cooperating with the Trump administration on immigration. Eric Adams, a Democrat, is allowing Trump's Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to operate on Rikers Island, New York City's largest and most violent jail complex.

It comes as Trump's Justice Department has moved to dismiss charges in a sweeping corruption case against the mayor. Adams denies a quid pro quo, telling Fox News, while Trump border czar Tom Homan sat right next to him, that he's simply not bucking the Trump team on immigration like he claims the far left is.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK: Let's be clear, I'm not standing in the way. I'm collaborating against so many others that don't want to collaborate.

TODD: But Adam's coziness with the Trump team has caused upheaval in the Justice Department, where more than half-a-dozen senior officials have resigned after refusing to sign off on dismissing the corruption case.

PROF. LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: It's a nice little arrangement all the way around except for justice. This is not justice. You know, the scales of justice are going haywire here.

TODD: Adams wasn't always so chummy with Trump, in 2019 posting messages on Twitter and Facebook slamming the president over his immigration policies, once saying Trump's hatred is bottomless. But since the corruption charges were brought against him in September, and with Trump's ascent to power, Adams has changed his tune.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION": Since Donald Trump has been elected, Mayor Adams has worked even harder to firm up his relationship with the Trump administration.

TODD: Adams has recently praised Trump in public, praised Elon Musk. He made a pilgrimage to Florida to have dinner with Trump, greeted Trump at a UFC event in Madison Square Garden, and skipped Martin Luther King Day events in New York to attend Trump's inauguration, following a playbook for ingratiating himself with the president used by Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and a string of powerful tech billionaires.

MITCHELL: I think to get on Trump's good side, you got to go down to Mar-a-Lago and kiss the ring. If you're a Democrat, you've got to be willing to not just criticize Democrats but specifically criticize the Biden administration. You've got to feed into this kind of bro-ey, alpha male way, swagger, if you will.

TODD: Trump said he would consider a pardon of Adams if he was ever convicted. Adams was asked in November by Wolf Blitzer if he's asked for one.

ADAMS: That is not on my agenda.

SABATO: It's possible for Trump and the Justice Department to bring these charges back in some form. So only a pardon will solve his problems, and he may get a pardon if he continues to cooperate fully.

TODD: We asked analysts, how might Eric Adams best navigate this relationship with Donald Trump moving forward? They said compliment Trump often in public, and if he ever gets to a point where he disagrees with Trump, think twice about speaking out about it because that could erase everything that Adams has so carefully built with the president.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, for more now on the fallout from all of this, I'm joined by former Miami-Dade County court judge Jeff Swartz. He is now a professor at the Thomas M. Cooley Law School's Tampa Bay campus. Great to see you. All right, so how unusual is it for prosecutors to be asked to drop a case of this magnitude just weeks before a trial is set to begin? JEFF SWARTZ, PROFESSOR, THOMAS M. COOLEY, LAW SCHOOL'S TAMPA BAY

CAMPUS: The only way that that should happen is if the government lost witnesses or felt they could not prove the case, or willing to reduce the charges in order to get a plea out of someone. This kind of case, you just don't drop. This was dropped and ordered to be dropped by Emil Bove, who people don't understand was the driving force in the 1/6 investigations.

[14:30:5]

He was driving, he was in charge of the criminal division. He was aware of these charges being investigated. And Mayor Adams was being investigated long before the election and long before he became mayor. He was being investigated when he was just a member of the city council. So I can understand the discomfiture of Miss Sassoon and the people who worked on this, especially in the public integrity section of the Department of Justice. This was just, there's just really no reason for this other than as was described in Miss Sassoon's letter to the attorney general.

WHITFIELD: And then I'm wondering, what happens now with the mayor's case? Because while the motion has been filed, a judge has to either sign off on it or dismiss it, right?

SWARTZ: Well, Judge Ho does have alternatives. If you remember when it relates to former General Flynn, when the government tried to drop the charges before he entered a plea, and the judge, not this judge, but a federal judge, appointed a prosecutor to protect the interests of the United States of America because he didn't feel that the Department of Justice was doing that.

This could happen here. If he does, if Judge Ho doesn't accept the excuses that are given by Mr. Bove and his deputy, who has just been appointed to be in charge of the criminal division, who signed this motion, if he doesn't buy this, if he doesn't think this is justice, he could appoint a special prosecutor to overlook what is happening here and ultimately could appoint a special prosecutor to prosecute the mayor. So that could still happen.

Remember, even if the charges are dropped, its being done without prejudice, the mayor is still in jeopardy, remains in jeopardy. And if he does not behave himself the way that the administration wants him to, they can reinstate these charges any time they want.

WHITFIELD: Oh, wow. So then you mentioned Sassoon, the prosecutor. So what recourse do these prosecutors have after Danielle Sassoon's eight page resignation letter said in part, "Adams's attorneys repeatedly urged what amounted to a quid pro quo, indicating that Adams would be in a position to assist with the department's enforcement priorities only if the indictment were dismissed," end quote. And then out of D.C., a now former prosecutor released a blistering letter accusing top leaders at the new DOJ of looking for a fool to dismiss charges, and attorney Hagan Scotten said he would not be that fool. So what kind of pressure might there be on these remaining prosecutors at the Justice Department? SWARTZ: Obviously, the ones that are there are under the thumb of Mr. Bove. I think that they've already said they want to get rid of the public integrity division and get rid of everybody there, because these are really dedicated people. They'd have to get rid of them and then reinstate it.

If I were Mr. Bove and anybody following his orders, I'd be concerned about some of the civil cases that are being filed against assistant United States attorneys over 1/6. It'd be concerned about the criminal cases that they're supposedly going to be investigating some of these people. I would really be concerned if I were Mr. Bove, because he is witnessed, number one. He's going to be witness number one in all of those cases because of his turnaround in regards to how he is acting as a deputy attorney general. The pressure is not off, and the pressure will begin to grow. And I think that Mr. Bove's future in the Department of Justice may be limited.

WHITFIELD: All right, Judge Jeff Swartz, and professor, thank you so much.

SWARTZ: Have a great day.

WHITFIELD: You too.

All right, coming up, the next round of Trump tariffs with U.S. trading partners, what that could mean for your wallet.

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[14:38:51]

WHITFIELD: All right, President Donald Trump is doubling down on his quest to level the playing field for trade. In a new executive order signed this week, he is ordering economic advisers to devise plans for reciprocal across-the-board tariffs with everyone the U.S. trades with. That means the U.S. will go tit-for-tat with our trading partners, country by country, matching tariffs on all imports.

Here to talk about all of this, CNN economics and political commentator and also opinion columnist for "The Washington Post" Catherine Rampell. Catherine, great to see you. So Trump says this is an opportunity for the U.S. to pay off its debts. Is that really going to be the case?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's not clear what his objective is here. Look, if he raises tariffs, those are going to be borne, at least in part, if not entirely, by Americans. We have seen this happen before with his prior rounds of tariffs in his first term. Lots and lots of studies have found that those tariffs, which are taxes, were passed along, again, either mostly or entirely to Americans in the form of higher prices. We saw it with washing machines, for example. We saw it with steel. The same thing is going to happen here.

[14:40:2] So it's very easy to identify what the downsides are to this particular strategy. I'm still not clear on what any of the objectives are. Like, why is he picking fights with our allies? What is he actually trying to get from them and what does he hope to achieve? Nobody can really articulate that.

WHITFIELD: Well, he's put it kind of simply when he says, you know what, this is going to help the U.S. make a lot of money. And how is that money made and where would it go?

RAMPELL: Well, these are taxes, they are taxes on imported goods. That will have some revenue. But how much revenue is probably going to be pennies relative to the economic cost because it's going to raise the price of goods that come into the United States. That's going to reduce demand, which means you won't necessarily get tariff revenue on all of the goods that we are receiving now. You'll see fewer of them, which is why the other -- you'll see fewer of these goods coming in, which is why other countries don't want them. So it's not like Americans come out ahead or behind and the other country feels the opposite. Everybody is worse off.

So yes, there will be some tax revenue that's collected. Last time around, viewers may recall that Trump just used that tax revenue, that tariff revenue to pay off farmers in the United States who were hit by retaliatory tariffs, right, that when Trump imposed steel and aluminum tariffs, for example, around the world, lots of countries retaliated by saying, OK, we are going to raise our own import taxes, tariffs, on American soybeans or corn or other products, which hurt American farmers. And Trump just transferred that revenue to them.

So maybe he'll try to do the same thing again, but it's not going to actually raise meaningful money. Again, it's likely to hurt American consumers, hurt American employers who are facing retaliatory tariffs, and also hurt American companies that import intermediate goods, right, to make their own products. So, like with steel and aluminum, if we raise the cost of those inputs, that's going to hurt automakers, beer can manufacturers, and downstream companies like American craft beer makers or soda makers, for example, appliance makers. There's going to be a lot of pain throughout the system, again, for what objective we don't know.

WHITFIELD: So these tariffs wouldn't go into effect until April 2nd at the earliest. But does that potentially open the door for other nations to negotiate to prevent these tariffs?

RAMPELL: I think that's what Trump says is going to happen. But again, he has had difficulty explaining what exactly he wants in return right. He threatened tariffs on Mexico and Canada not very long ago, citing his, you know, his objective as dealing with fentanyl coming over the border, which fentanyl, big problem in the United States. You will hear no argument from me otherwise. But what does he want Canada to do about that? It's not really clear. So they came up with sort of a fig leaf of well, you know, Canada will create a fentanyl czar, whatever that means.

So what will that be for other countries? What will be the face-saving measure? I don't know. It's not like there is a clear, I don't know, a clear episode that Trump is trying to extract revenge for, like these are allies who didn't come to our side during war time or something like that. He's just sort of walking out, throwing a tantrum, and then claiming he'll be able to recuperate some unstated benefits, some unspecified benefits from this, but not clear what those objectives are.

In the meantime, even if there is something that's hashed out, we are deteriorating all of our relationships with our allies by doing this. These are countries, many of which are close allies and friends and trading partners of ours who are being indiscriminately attacked. And for what, who knows?

WHITFIELD: OK, Catherine Rampell, thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

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[14:48:56]

WHITFIELD: All right, next week, another of President Trump's cabinet nominees will face a critical vote on her path to be confirmed. On Thursday, the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee will decide if Linda McMahon's nomination as the next Secretary of Education will advance to a full floor vote. She was grilled by the committee last week about the president's plans to dismantle the Education Department, but McMahon says that would ultimately take an act of Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY, (R-LA) COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR, AND PENSIONS: Do you agree that since the Department was created by Congress, it would need an act of Congress to actually close the Department of Education?

LINDA MCMAHON, EDUCATION SECRETARY NOMINEE: And certainly President Trump understands that we'll be working with Congress, but certainly does require congressional action.

Long before there was a Department of Education, we fulfilled the programs of our educational system. Are there other areas, other agencies where parts of the Department of Education could better serve our students and our parents on a local level?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, here with us now, former Education Secretary under President Obama, Arne Duncan.

[14:50:00]

Mr. Secretary, good to see you. I especially like your Howard Bison sweatshirt. Good choice today. All right, so is McMahon, right? I mean, would Congress need to act to

totally dissolve the Department of Education because we're seeing other departments being either gutted or shut down without congressional approval?

ARNE DUNCAN, FORMER EDUCATION SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: No, she's exactly right. And it would take 60 members of the Senate to vote to close the Department of Education. That is never going to happen. This is another false promise, another lie Trump talks about in the campaign, like building the wall, like having Mexico pay for the wall. So that is not going to happen.

WHITFIELD: Well, Trump is hoping that, you know, if she's confirmed that she won't have that job long because the Department of Education would go away. So what are you most worried about with his language?

DUNCAN: Well, again, the department cannot go away unless they become incredibly lawless and we have a constitutional crisis because Congress won't act to close the Department of Education. That would never happen.

But I think it's important for your viewers just to understand how unprecedented Trump's assault on public education is. If I can very quickly just walk through Republican presidential leadership on education because it should be the ultimate bipartisan issue. Lincoln, during the Civil War, created the Land Grant colleges. Eisenhower created the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. Pell Grants, which have been transformational, allowing so many first generation folks to go to college, that was signed by guess who, President Nixon. Nixon signed Pell Grants. The Individuals with Disabilities Act, that was President Ford. I can go right down the list.

So this is not Republican versus Democrat, R versus D. Education should be the ultimate bipartisan issue. This is an assault on public education that is unprecedented in our nation's history. That's what is incredibly concerning to all of us.

WHITFIELD: So one of the arguments is that state schools would be in a better position to allocate federal funding without the Department of Education guidance. Do you buy that?

DUNCAN: No. And nothing Trump says on this stuff is honest. So again, very important for your viewers to understand that 90 percent of the funding for public education already comes at the local level, state and local communities. Only 10 percent comes at the federal level. And what is that money for? It's basically only to help supplement that money for our most vulnerable children in America. So our children trying to have access to pre-k so they enter kindergarten ready to be successful, children who need to be fed a lunch because otherwise they'll go hungry, children who are low income, who need additional resources, children with special needs, rural children, again, students with Pell Grants trying to go to college.

And these people with challenges, these families that are vulnerable, obviously, some of their parents happen to vote Democratic. Many of their parents happen to vote Republican. And the damage he is going to do to our nation's most vulnerable, and many of whom voted for him, is just mind boggling to me. It's absolutely incomprehensible.

WHITFIELD: Earlier this week, Trump had this to say about the Department of Education.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, do you want the Department of Education to be closed?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: Oh, I'd like it to be closed immediately. Look, the Department of Education is a big con job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: What's your reply to him where he says it's a con job. I mean, the U.S. spends more than $1 trillion on education, but only eight percent of elementary and secondary education funding comes from the federal government. You just mentioned the 10 percent or so, most of that money coming from the state. So what is he talking about?

DUNCAN: You'd have to ask him. And obviously, as we know, he is a fraud. This a con -- they talk about reducing the federal workforce, making government more efficient. At the same time, they're talking about doing all this destruction to our nation's most vulnerable children, taking away their opportunities to get a great education.

At the same time, his co-president there, Elon Musk, is trying to receive a $400 million contract for Tesla. And so basically what this is, is taking money from poor, vulnerable children and families who need a great education and moving it to the wealthy. It's a transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy. This is a grift. It is a con. It is a fraud. And we have to call it for exactly what it is.

WHITFIELD: Secretary Arne Duncan, great to see you. Thank you so much.

DUNCAN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:59:14]

WHITFIELD: All right, the 2025 NBA All-Star weekend has kicked off in the Bay Area, and viewers can anticipate celebrity sightings and a more competitive format this year with a mini-tournament on Sunday and other challenges to look forward to. CNN's Andy Scholes is joining us right now. Andy, what can fans expect?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, one of the most fun events for All-Star weekend every single year, it's the practices where all the fans get to come see all of the biggest stars in the NBA up close. And this year in the Bay, it's super cool. They are holding the practices at Oracle Arena where the warriors used to play in Oakland. So the fans get to see Steph Curry who is out on the court right now one more time here in this arena, which is really neat.

Now the events tonight, they're going to be back in San Francisco at the Chase Center, where they're going to have the skills, the dunk, and the three point contest. And those are going to be fun as well.