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U.S.-Russia Talks to Take Place in Saudi Arabia Tuesday; Ukrainians Skeptical of Future Peace with Russia; Interview with Representative Eugene Vindman (D-VA); Trump Education Department Threatens Federal Funding for Considering Race; Measles Outbreak in West Texas Doubles to 48 Cases; Pope Francis Being Treated for Bronchitis in Rome Hospital; Archeologists Discover Lavish Roman Baths at Pompeii; "Lockerbie: The Bombing of Pan Am 103" Airs Next. Aired 8- 9p ET

Aired February 16, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: They will be meeting on Tuesday with top officials selected by the Kremlin including political, economic and intelligence officials from Russia.

We have also learned that Saudi Arabia will be a key mediator during these talks. And of course, that comes after Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was instrumental in securing the release of wrongfully detained American Marc Fogel earlier this week.

Now sources in the Trump administration are saying that these talks should be viewed as just an initial first step aimed at gauging how serious President Putin is about ending Russia's war in Ukraine, which is on the cusp of that third anniversary just days from now. It also comes just days after President Trump had that key call with Putin.

But here's what President Trump had to say about all this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're trying to get a peace with Russia, Ukraine, and we're working very hard on it. It's a war that should have never started.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you expect Zelenskyy to be involved in these conversations? What will his role be?

TRUMP: Yes, I do. I do. He will be involved. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Secretary Rubio also said that depending on the progress of these talks, Ukraine may have to get involved and ultimately Europe may have to get involved as well. Now for his part, President Trump told reporters hours ago on the tarmac here in West Palm Beach that he could be meeting soon with President Putin also in Saudi Arabia.

So clearly, Paula, all of this moving quite quickly. We'll be watching those talks quite closely on Tuesday.

PAULA REID, CNN ANCHOR: Betsy Klein, thank you.

And there's growing concern among Ukrainians that any Trump brokered ceasefire with Russia could be full of concessions and false promises.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh traveled to the war torn frontline to speak with Ukrainians fighting for their freedom.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): Wait, let's look at the tree again.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hundreds of dead or injured daily. But this drone war can feel here like high stakes gaming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): It seems they're in the trench.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): Got it, Lucky Strike. Let's strike it one more time. Fly, check it and strike the dugouts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): One wounded (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is crawling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): Was the strike successful?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): We struck the enemy. There are bushes, he will try one more time.

PATON WALSH: For those below a petrifying scramble in the frozen mud, the tiny buzz of death above.

This very remote world of chat groups and drone cameras so removed from the absolute horror of what's going down on the ground there. Both sides torn apart in trench warfare. Not been seen for a century in some places.

VOLODYMYR SABLYN, BATTALION COMMANDER, 66TH MECHANIZED BRIGADE (through text translation): The enemy is beyond the river.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): Volodymyr is a week or so shy of his decade anniversary fighting Russia, joining in 2015 when Moscow seized the nearby town of Debaltseve, literally during a ceasefire.

You better really mean it if you talk peace here.

SABLYN (through text translation): The conflict was frozen and it only led to a full-scale war. I think there is a ceasefire now. It will only get worse for us because the enemy will restore itself, form new military units again, regroup and attack again.

PATON WALSH: One certainty as we head out to see the front as this same drone set up and carnage is being mimicked by the Russians not far away. Dusk can bring a brief break in Russian drones in the skies, but this red dot means there's one above us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sky is dirty. We have to wait. We have to go.

PATON WALSH: So much changes fast in this war, but the shelling seems like it could go on forever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): Fire!

PATON WALSH: Massive guns hiding from tiny $500 machines here. Extraordinary change.

(Voice-over): Little geopolitics here. Just practical skepticism and hard numbers.

Do you think there could be a ceasefire here that could last?

VIKTOR, 66TH MECHANIZED BRIGADE (through text translation): What percentage for the implementation of a ceasefire?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translation): About 30 percent.

VIKTOR (through text translation): Because of the situation on the front it doesn't look like there will be a truce. It's very hard.

ANDY, 66TH MECHANIZED BRIGADE (through text translation): It's about 40 percent. The other side is winning, taking territory. And we, by and large, have nothing to say.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[20:05:00]

REID: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.

And joining us now is Democratic Congressman Eugene Vindman of Virginia. He is a member of the House Armed Services and Agriculture Committees.

Congressman, thank you for your time. First, I want to get your take on these talks between the U.S. and Russia in Saudi Arabia. Is it a mistake not to have Ukraine present for these talks?

REP. EUGENE VINDMAN (D-VA): Well, first of all, thank you, Paula, for having me tonight. These talks with Russia start with a very weak bargaining position. Think about what's happened in the last week. The U.S., the new secretary of defense, has agreed that Russian territorial gains should be -- the Russians should be able to keep parts of that, that Russia -- that Ukraine should not be in NATO.

These are -- before that Ukraine has lost aid in rebuilding of its infrastructure through USAID programs. So this is about the weakest starting position for peace talks that you can imagine. This is all before the first sides meet. So I think it's a very weak starting position. If I were to give the administration any credit at all, maybe they're looking at having sequential talks, but they're starting from a weak position.

REID: And we're getting a lot of different messages about what exactly Ukraine's role will be going forward. Ukraine says it was not informed about these talks in Saudi Arabia. Trump says they will be involved. And then his special envoy, General Keith Kellogg, announced dual talks will be taking place in Kyiv. Is this a smart strategy?

VINDMAN: No, it's not a smart strategy. Look, different parts of the administration, General Kellogg says one thing, the secretary of defense says another thing. JD Vance, vice president, says another thing. So there's no way to tell where this administration actually stands on the talks. And, you know, the idea of the U.S. and Russia having these talks without participation from the E.U. and Ukraine is nonsensical.

The U.S. is at best tangentially involved. The U.S. has provided some material support, some monetary support. And that's about it. It's not like we're directly involved in the conflict like we were in Vietnam or North Korea. So, I don't know what the administration can possibly agree with Russia that does not involve Ukraine coming to the bargaining table.

REID: Well, this week, Vice President JD Vance told the "Wall Street Journal" that the U.S. has economic and military leverage against Russia. What do you make of those comments? I mean, what do you think that leverage looks like?

VINDMAN: Well, again, I think we start from a position where the U.S. is in some ways legitimizing some of the gains. I think the president last week said that, you know, the loss of Russian -- several hundred thousand Russian forces has sort of bought them some of the territorial gains that they've made. It's nonsensical statements. It's statements that no president of the United States should ever be making. And it's frankly completely and totally unacceptable position to start with.

REID: All right. Let's turn to the Middle East. Israel vowing to, quote, "finish the job against Iran" with help from the U.S. According to our sources, both the Biden and Trump administrations received intelligence that Israel would likely attempt to strike facilities key to Iran's nuclear program this year.

Does that run counter to the Trump administration's desire for peace in the Middle East?

VINDMAN: Well, 100 percent. This administration has been promising to keep us out of wars around the world, in the Middle East. And, you know, I agree that Iran is a major destabilizing force in the Middle East and around the world. They're a state sponsor of terror. They support the Houthis that are blocking major shipping channels so that the Iranian problem must be dealt with in some form or fashion.

But I have not seen anything to indicate that there is a Iranian nuclear breakout, that would be something that could potentially warrant a response from the U.S. and Israel. Until I see something like that, until that is presented to the American people, this idea of the U.S. entering into a conflict in the Middle East, another one, is totally unacceptable.

REID: Now, back here at home, of course, as you know, thousands of federal workers are at risk of losing their jobs as Elon Musk and DOGE make their way through key agencies. The secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, he says he will welcome Musk and DOGE at the Pentagon very soon to, quote, "find billions of dollars to save."

Have you heard anything about what DOGE could do inside the Pentagon?

[2010:01]

VINDMAN: Well, look, earlier this week, a Republican senator said that the secretary made a rookie mistake. And there is no such thing as rookie mistakes for the secretary of defense of the United States. There is no warm up for an administration. And we've already seen that this DOGE, I call the Department of Government Inefficiencies, is causing a reign of terror, chaos across the federal government.

Just this week, they released classified information about a U.S. intelligence agency. They have access to the American people's personal information, bank accounts and things like that, that they're frankly not entitled to. And so I have a major, major concern about them going into the Department of Defense and futzing around with, you know, the internal systems there and U.S. national security.

REID: And DOGE is reportedly also targeting the Department of Agriculture. The agency leader says layoffs are coming. Your state plays a big role in our nation's production of agricultural products. So as a member of the Agricultural Committee, are you hearing anything about the impact we could see at that agency?

VINDMAN: Well, look, this administration and these executive orders seem to be just actually executing a policy, then thinking about it and then walking it back. We saw an example of that this week where one of their policies related to federal government employees is walked back after I introduced a bill that was bipartisan and that had generated a lot of pressure on administration.

And so move fast and break things may be a way for, you know, tech pros to manage things in Silicon Valley, but it's no way to run government because unlike in private industry you may lose business. But in government, people's lives are at stake. And when it comes to agriculture, I've heard from farmers around my district that are very concerned that currently are losing or have had programs that are supported by USDA frozen.

USAID purchases a great deal of grain and products from American farmers. All of that has put them in jeopardy. And social media is filled with reports of folks that were Trump supporters. And I've gotten calls from folks like that in my office that have been Trump supporters and are getting more than they bargained for.

REID: Now, you, along with Congressman Rob Wittman, introduced legislation pushing President Trump to allow federal workers who are married to military members and foreign service members to continue to work from home. Now this is after the White House announced a new policy requiring all government employees to return to the office.

Can you explain why this is such an important issue for you?

VINDMAN: Now, look, I spent 25 years in the United States Army. So I served with my brothers and sisters in uniform and patriotic families around the country and around the world. And so I know the hardship that they go through. I know how hard it is for them to uproot every couple of years and try to secure a job. And so as it -- when it pertains to a federal government job and you have a spouse who actually called into my office said, you know, this new executive order announced and then thought through only on the back end would have her drive 200 miles round trip from one end of my district to Washington, D.C. and would have resulted in her having to quit her job, her husband having to leave the military, or a 200-mile round trip.

And so I moved fast with my colleagues on the Republican Party. This is a bipartisan issue supporting patriotic American families as a bipartisan issue. And so we drafted a piece of legislation that put pressure on the administration in addition to calls and letters that went out to the administration. And we've seen this administration actually respond to pressure. They backpedaled before, and they did it again on this issue, which they issued an exemption to active duty military spouses that affected thousands of spouses around the country and around the world.

And I see it as a major victory and I feel great about the fact that we're helping patriotic American families.

REID: Now, before I let you go, I have to ask you about the government funding deadline that's coming up in less than a month. Are you planning to work with Republicans to ensure there's no government shutdown? Or will that all be up to the GOP to avoid?

VINDMAN: Look, the GOP is the party in power. The House of Representatives is a majoritarian institution, which means that the majority controls the House. We've seen chaos. We've seen how disjointed they are. They have a caucus that is filled with radicals. And so I suspect they're going to have to work with Democrats.

And I've already demonstrated that I'm a moderate, bipartisan member. I'm going to look for areas where I can work with Republicans on to help my constituents, help the American people.

[20:15:05]

But I'm certainly going to hold the line with my Democratic colleagues to make sure that our priorities are not cut and that the administration actually follows the law and follows the Constitution. And when we pass a funding bill that they actually execute that funding bill.

REID: Congressman Eugene Vindman, thank you.

VINDMAN: Thank you, Paula. REID: And still ahead, the Department of Education is threatening to

pull federal funding from any school that considers race in its decisions. What the repercussions could be for institutions like historically black colleges and universities.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:20:20]

REID: The Department of Education is threatening to cut federal funding from any school that considers race in most aspects of student life. In a letter to institutions from preschools all the way through post-secondary education, the agency laid out a sweeping and controversial interpretation of U.S. law following the 2023 Supreme Court decision that gutted Affirmative Action, writing that, "Even though the ruling addressed admissions decisions, the Supreme Court's holding applies more broadly. At its core, the test is simple. If an education institution treats a person of one race differently than it treats another person because of that person's race, the educational institution violates the law."

Joining us now is Arne Duncan, former education secretary under President Obama.

Thank you so much for joining us. I first just want to get your initial reaction to this letter.

ARNE DUNCAN, FORMER EDUCATION SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: There's so much here. It's hard to know where to start. But let me start on the higher ed side. Many of our nation's elite universities were literally built by slaves. So that legacy is who we are as a nation. The real affirmative action for generations, for centuries at some place, has been legacy admissions and admissions for the children of the wealthy, of wealthy donors who buy themselves into those universities.

If anyone thinks Trump got into the University of Pennsylvania on his merit alone, that's laughable. So to deny this history, to act like we don't have to do something to create more opportunities for those who were enslaved, who built many of our institutions of higher education is a real problem. K to 12, this is not what any parent is asking for. When you pull parents, they are asking for three things.

They want their children to be safe in school and they're worried about gun violence, school shootings, mass shootings. This administration will do nothing to address that. They're worried about their children getting help for their social and emotional needs, and they want their children to have a challenging curriculum and be ready to be prepared to be successful in college. So nothing of what Trump is trying to sell people are buying or asking for.

REID: Well, what could this mean specifically for historically black colleges and universities? That was one of the first questions that came up as this was released. DUNCAN: Well, all of this is intentionally vague to, again, I think

just to create chaos and create fear. HBCUs have served our nation forever. Again, starting originally trying to serve the children of former slaves. Rich, rich history. They are needed today more than ever. I happen to be on the board of Howard University, a huge supporter and proponent of what they're trying to do.

And anything that makes their job more difficult as they try and level the playing field and create the next generation of leaders for our country, who happen to be black or brown, our nation needs those opportunities. We need those leaders. We need those entrepreneurs. We need those innovators. And so anything that attacks those opportunities and diminishes it does our country a grave disservice. But I think that's actually the intent. That's what they're trying to do here.

REID: And this letter also criticizes diversity equity and inclusion efforts, saying that such programs, quote, "frequently preference certain racial groups and teach students that certain racial groups bear unique moral burdens that others do not." What do you say to that?

DUNCAN: Well, again, just the dishonesty here is staggering. And what's really fascinating, this has been reported on by "The New York Times" and others, is that during the first administration, Trump's Department of Education actually supported these initiatives and insisted that people go to training. And the huge, cruel, cruel irony now is that many of those hardworking employees of the Department of Education who are being laid off because they went to trainings mandated by President Trump's administration, were actually military veterans.

So these are people who served our country, risked their lives, came back, wanted to help, you know, increase educational opportunity, did what they were told. And they are, as we speak, not being allowed to do their job. It's just mindboggling what's happening right now.

REID: And this letter comes as Trump has repeatedly vowed to dismantle the Department of Education. And this week, another of Trump's cabinet picks nominees will face a critical vote on her path to be confirmed secretary of education. So she was grilled last week about the president's plan to dismantle education, the Education Department. Let's take a listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Do you agree that since the department was created by Congress, it would need an act of Congress to actually close the Department of Education?

LINDA MCMAHON, EDUCATION SECRETARY NOMINEE: And certainly President Trump understands that we'll be working with Congress, but certainly does require congressional action.

[20:25:06] Long before there was a Department of Education, we fulfilled the programs of our educational system. Are there other areas, other agencies where parts of the Department of Education could better serve our students and our parents on a local level?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: So as someone who has led the Department of Education, in your view, what is the impact if the department goes away?

DUNCAN: Well, first of all, the department cannot go away. She answered that question accurately. It would take 60 senators to vote to abolish the Department of Education. That's never going to happen. But what -- two things are possible here. Trump can do a lot to hurt children across the country. Who does the Department of Education serve and provide funding for? It's our most vulnerable kids across the country, children trying to go to pre-K.

It's children who are English language learners. It's children who live below the poverty line. It's children with special needs. It's world children. It's millions and millions of dollars for Pell grants to help first generation college goers go to college. And so any attempt to harm or dismantle any of those programs will simply hurt the most vulnerable children across our country.

And as you know so well, children with special needs, rural children, children who live below the poverty line, some of their parents happen to vote R, some happened to vote D. But education should be the ultimate bipartisan issue. And Trump is going to hurt so many who supported him. And again, just absolutely incomprehensible to me.

REID: Arne Duncan, thank you.

DUNCAN: Thank you.

REID: As a deadly winter storm slams parts of the south, frigid air moving in behind the system is setting the stage for another storm later this week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:31:13]

REID: The deadly storm that swept through many eastern states overnight has left flooding and damage in its wake. At least nine people are dead, eight of those in Kentucky with the death toll expected to rise. Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear spoke to CNN earlier today about the massive impact of the storm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D), KENTUCKY: We know that we've lost eight. We believe that number will at least climb to nine. We've experienced significant flash flooding all across our state and are now having significant riverbank flooding. So for us, we are in an emergency search and rescue mode. We will be throughout the rest of today and probably through at least tomorrow.

But thankfully, our first responders, our National Guard, our Kentucky state police have now rescued more than a thousand people and they're out there doing a great job. We're grateful for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: In West Virginia, you can see a semi-truck under water after severe flooding and homes almost completely submerged. Many parts of Virginia are also experiencing flooding, prompting Governor Glenn Youngkin to request an expedited major disaster declaration for storm relief. Millions tonight remain under winter weather alerts.

CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar explains what we can expect in the days ahead.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, there has been a significant amount of rainfall. You take a look at the video behind me from Grundy, Virginia. This is where they had the water rescues as that swift water just kind of overtook a lot of the roads and bridges in this particular area.

Looking at the wide swath of rain here, you can see widespread. You are looking at about four to six inches, but some of these spots picked up more than half a foot of rain in just the last 24 to 36 hours. Now the rest of the day today, we still have what's left of that front before it finally pushes back out over the open Atlantic, but there's still a little bit of moisture still left, so a lot of these places still could end up seeing a little bit more rain.

You can see there as it kind of slides through. What's really going to linger the most is actually going to be the snow across portions of the northeast, which will actually linger into very early portions of the day on Monday. Another thing that's going to linger is the winds. You can see we've got these wind warnings in effect for much of the mid-Atlantic and even into the northeast. Those wind gusts up around 50 to 60 miles per hour.

This isn't just valid for Sunday. Many of these extend into at least the first half of the day on Monday.

REID: Allison, thank you.

And still ahead, the ongoing measles outbreak in west Texas doubles in size and it's getting worse. We'll have more on the spread and why it's happening.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:38:30]

REID: A health crisis is spreading in west Texas, where officials are struggling to contain a measles outbreak. Cases have doubled to 48 in the last week. The majority of those cases involve children 5 to 17 years old. The state's health department says all the cases are among people who are either unvaccinated or whose vaccination status is unknown. Texas health officials expect more cases to come.

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones joins us now.

Julia, what more do you know about this outbreak?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, we know that this is centered around Gaines County in west Texas, but has now spread to neighboring counties as well. Wayne, Terry and Yoakum Counties.

The vaccination rates in this region are lower than the recommended threshold, which is worrying officials, but they are putting measures into place to help curb this. They're extending hours and vaccination clinics are now open seven days a week. And this week, at least 80 people, new people were vaccinated with that MMR, the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine.

The difficulty here is that for those children, for the children of population, 1 in 5 kindergartners in Gaines County does not have that MMR vaccine. That is about 18 percent exemption rate. That is the highest rate in the state of Texas, according to the Texas Department of Health. And they're worried that these measures might not be enough to curb the spread of the virus.

[20:40:02]

Again, measles is a very contagious illness. It spreads through coughing and sneezing. It can cause fever, rashes, in severe cases it can lead to blindness, pneumonia, swelling of the brain as well. It can be deadly. And deaths mostly occur in that unvaccinated population, Paula, especially in children under 5 years old.

Another concern, this virus now is spreading into New Mexico, just across the border in Lea County, now also a state of emergency declared by authorities there after a third case. Three cases total were diagnosed this week, including one unvaccinated teenager in that county.

Now measles cases already in six different states this year alone and authorities nationwide, Paula, are asking parents to make sure that their kids are vaccinated, check their vaccination cards, and ensure that they have both doses so they're properly protected and they can curb the spread of this virus.

REID: Julia Vargas Jones, thank you.

And officials from the Trump administration say they will present the president a plan to combat avian flu next week. It's as the virus continues to spread to other animals and humans. The plan involves a medication that would avoid killing chickens and addresses biosecurity issues. The officials said the plan should be ready next week.

This comes as the U.S. Department of Agriculture has issued a conditional license for a bird flu vaccine for use in chickens. The disease is causing the price of eggs to surge. The latest inflation data shows eggs cost 15 percent more from December to January.

And coming up, how Pope Francis is doing after spending the weekend in the hospital.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:46:32]

REID: Pope Francis gave his traditional Sunday prayer in writing today from his hospital room in Rome. The 88-year-old thanked health care workers for the care they are giving him as he is being treated for bronchitis.

CNN's Christopher Lamm has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: The Vatican gave an update on Pope Francis' condition on Sunday, explaining that the Pope is in a stable condition, that he's continuing to receive treatment and that he followed the mass by television from his hospital bedroom behind me in the Gemelli Hospital on the 10th floor.

Francis has been in hospital since Friday following a severe bout of bronchitis. This has been diagnosed as a respiratory tract infection, and he's receiving treatment at the Gemelli Hospital. Now, the Pope has been suffering from bronchitis for several days. He's been struggling to give speeches and finding it difficult to talk. The Pope has canceled events for tomorrow, and it's unclear how long he will be in hospital for. The Vatican said all this depends on how well he responds to treatment.

It's clear that the Pope is not out of the woods yet. There is still a long way to go, but from this statement, what we know is that the Pope's condition is stable. He's continuing to rest on the orders of doctors, and of course, we'll be waiting for further updates when they come from the Vatican.

Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Lying hidden beneath volcanic rock and ash, new Roman ruins have been uncovered at Pompeii in Italy, including what could have been an ancient version of Mar-a-Lago.

CNN's Ben Wedeman has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Around noon in A.D. 79 it's not clear whether it was the summer or the autumn, Mount Vesuvius began to erupt within 48 hours. If they were lucky, residents of the City of Pompeii managed to flee. The rest were dead. (Voice-over): For centuries afterwards, Pompeii was largely forgotten,

until the middle of the 1700s when digging began in earnest.

GABRIEL ZUCHTRIEGEL, DIRECTOR GENERAL, ARCHAEOLOGICAL PARK OF POMPEII: Minerals coming through humidity.

WEDEMAN: for Gabriel Zuchtriegel, director of the Pompeii Archaeological Park, the work here never ends.

ZUCHTRIEGEL: Yes, the site is so vast, and it's, you know, 13,000 rooms excavated in two and a half centuries.

WEDEMAN: There are still new discoveries. The latest, this lavish complex of baths, including a caldarium, a hot room, a tepidarium, a warm room, and a frigidarium, a room with a pool of cold water, and a banquet hall.

Archaeologists presumed the owner was a wealthy businessman turned politician, busy wining and dining, winning friends and influencing people. Sound familiar?

ZUCHTRIEGEL: Think it's a bit like Mar-a-Lago, right? It's not really a public place, but at some points, people would invite stakeholders and potential supporters and friends.

WEDEMAN: This Roman Mar-a-Lago was under renovation. With the eruption, the work came to an abrupt end.

[20:50:02]

This could be a modern construction site with tiles and bricks and gravel lying around, but these were the materials left behind by construction workers 1,946 years ago. Now, one of the reasons why Pompeii is so well-preserved is that when the eruption of Vesuvius took place, it was covered by this, pumice, light weight solidified lava.

(Voice-over): Anna Honesty runs the dig site here. She says archaeologists at Pompeii need to pace themselves as technology advances.

Pompeii still holds many surprises, she says, and that's why, at a certain point, excavations have to conclude so that we can allow future generations after 100, 200 years to resume digging and uncover more data.

Stay tuned. There's more to come.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Pompeii.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Ben Wedeman, thank you. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:55:52]

REID: A new original CNN Series follows the circumstances behind the deadliest terror attack on the United States before 9/11, the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988. 270 people were killed including 190 Americans.

The series shows the complex web of theories that developed during the yearslong global investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY MASON, CBS REPORTER: The world was very different then. In those days, you could just basically walk onto a plane, you know, you'd check your bag, maybe. But after that you just walked to the gate.

We were just beginning to deal with terrorism, and it was still relatively easy to fly. It's kind of amazing to think about it now, but it was events like Lockerbie which changed all of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And joining us now is CNN's senior law enforcement analyst and former deputy director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe.

Andy, in the early 2000, you actually oversaw some of the investigative efforts into the bombing. What was that like?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It was incredibly a fascinating case, and one that, as you mentioned, started on December 21st, 1988 and went on for decades. In fact we have the third co- conspirator who will go on trial for his role in essentially creating and arming the bomb that took down the plane. That trial will take place later this year.

So when I was overseeing the case, I had the privilege of talking to the investigators and watching the developments that happened actually after the Arab spring took -- destabilized the government of Libya and ultimately did away with the Gaddafi regime and created opportunities for FBI investigators to start interviewing people in Libyan custody, which is something we had never done before.

And that's what led to the most recent developments in the case. But it's just a fascinating story. It started with an incredible tragedy over Scotland, a wreckage crime scene of over 850 square miles, 300 tons of evidence deposited in that area and ultimately takes us 30 years later to filing charges against the final co-conspirator.

REID: Well, for people who don't know the story, why did it take over 30 years to get to this point in the investigation?

MCCABE: You know, it's a story that you would expect to read in a spy novel. You have these deeply trained, covert Libyan intelligence officers who executed this attack in an effort to get back at America and the West for their political reasons. And many of those people became unavailable to the United States in terms of investigative access for many, many, many years. Of course, we're able to convict the first and the main kind of architect behind the attack, Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, who served several years in prison in Scotland before he was released on compassionate grounds.

But it was ultimately the breaking open of that Libyan system that allowed us, for the first time, to get access to some of these intelligence officers and other kind of shady characters who'd been in Libyan prisons for many years. It was the result of those interviews that led us to be able to charge the most recent suspect in this case.

REID: And we heard CBS News' Anthony Mason touch on this in the clip. But how did this attack change the course of security as we know it for flying going forward?

MCCABE: Fundamentally altered the rules around security and how packages would be screened and what would be and would not be allowed on airliners. But I have to say, Paula, it also totally changed the way the FBI thought about and investigated terrorism. And I think in many ways it prepared us for the massive investigation that we would have to undertake in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.

The downing of Pan Am 103 required us to work in such a way in cooperation with our overseas law enforcement and intelligence colleagues and to pursue this investigation across the globe. It prepared us for that effort after 9/11.

REID: Andy McCabe, thank you.

And the two-part premiere of "LOCKERBIE: THE BOMBING OF PAN AM 103" airs next.

Thank you for joining me this evening. I'm Paula Reid. Have a great week.