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Gov. Andy Beshear (D-KY), Is Interviewed About 1,000 Plus Rescues In Under 24 Hours As Storm Slams Kentucky; DOGE Seeks Access To Highly Sensitive Taxpayer Data; Musk Engineers To Visit FAA Command Center Amid Planned Overhaul. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired February 17, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: -- in several states with water levels reaching historic highs in some areas and making matters worse, the bitter cold air already moving in. CNN's Derek Van Dam is tracking it all from the Weather Center in Atlanta. So just how cold are we talking about here, Derek?

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, tomorrow morning is when we will see the feel a brunt of the extreme cold across the areas that have been impacted the most. Look at these overnight low temp -- temperatures. These are windchill values, what it feels like on your exposed skin as you step outside. That is bitterly cold, dangerously cold and something we want to be prepared for because the potential here exists for record-breaking low temperatures, that's actual air temperatures, across the state of Kentucky into Virginia, West Virginia, Indiana, parts of the country that were impacted by this heavy rain and the flooding that you see directly behind me.

Just imagine if this was your backyard starting to clean up the mess and then you have to contend with the icy frigid temperatures that are following behind this system. A stretch of extreme cold alerts all the way from the U.S.-Canada border down to the Rio Grande and then to make matters worse, a storm system will actually bring snowfall to the areas that were impacted by heavy rain and flooding. You can see the winter storm watches in place across portions of Kentucky.

Right now we have five river gauges that are at major flood stage and then the potential here exists for record low temperatures. So flooding and record lows is not a great combination, especially when many people still don't have power from this latest storm system. There's the evolution of our second storm that will move through, leaving a swath of snow across some of the hardest hit areas. Our hearts go out to the people of Kentucky today. Pamela?

BROWN: We certainly do. My heart is hurting for them. They've been through so much with severe weather and now this. Derek Van Dam, we appreciate it.

The state of Kentucky, my home state where I grew up, was hit especially hard over the weekend. The governor confirms that at least 11 people were killed in his state and you can see homes, businesses, and cars submerged in the flooding. First responders there carried out more than a thousand rescues in under 24 hours. I want to bring in Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear. First of all, Governor, where do things stand right now? Is flooding still the biggest concern?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Flooding is our biggest concern. We've moved from flash flooding, which was dangerous to our riverbanks overflowing, still a number of areas where we are in search and rescue mode, still rescuing people. We're evacuating an apartment building right now in Martin County, so maybe 100 plus people that we have to move to safety. So we are still in -- in the midst of this emergency response with a snowstorm coming Tuesday night into Wednesday. But thankfully, we have a lot of resources.

We have groups from all over the state that are performing these rescues as well as from multiple other states and from FEMA. So we're grateful for our neighbors and -- and for their help.

BROWN: Help us understand, how does this compare to the recent severe weather Kentucky has experienced? I -- I was there, you know, covering the 2022 flooding in eastern Kentucky. How does this stack up?

BESHEAR: Sadly, we've had 12, this will be the 13th federal declaration of disaster just since I've been governor for the last 5.5 years. We're the worst tornado in our lifetimes in 2021 killed 81 people. We have the worst flooding in our lifetime. In 2022, that killed 45 people. Currently, we have 11 fatalities at this event. But what's different about it is it hit the whole state.

Yes, eastern Kentucky has some of the most dramatic examples, and it's where we're -- we're focusing most of our resources that we have flooding in the far western parts of our state, too. We have 340 roads that are closed right now. We think that is a record. And so this is going to be a major event that we're dealing with in the coming days for the emergency response, but then in the necessary rebuild afterwards.

Now, we don't think we'll see the level of home damages that we did in July of 2022. But for those whose homes are wiped out, it's just as important that we respond just as strongly with all the options for them as with any other disaster we face. They have to be the most important people to us right now.

BROWN: So what is Kentucky doing now? Then, as they're you're trying to do these evacuations dealing with the flooding. Now you have this bitter cold air snow moving in. What is it doing to prepare for these plunging temperatures on top of this flooding?

BESHEAR: So the first thing we're trying to do is get our power on as quickly as possible. And -- and we've had power turned back on for tens of thousands of Kentuckian. And so thank you to all those utility crews. Then we've opened up a bunch of our state parks, all of which that have power where we're welcoming our Kentuckians that are displaced in and saying, we got you, whether it's for a couple days or for a couple weeks, you're going to have a warm place to stay.

We don't want to lose anyone to frigid temperatures after what we've been through with -- with basically water rescues in the middle of -- of a snow storm. And then we're -- we're making sure that we have other options, shelter open. So the answer is we're trying to do anything. These are our people, and we want to take care of them.

[11:05:14]

BROWN: You confirmed that 11 people have lost their lives in Kentucky. Do you expect that number to rise?

BESHEAR: Right now, that's all we have confirmed, and I don't have any information about others that are out there, but we haven't been able to go door to door for wellness checks, which we will. One positive about this one is that we never lost cell phone service in most of these areas, and that gives me hope that if we lose more people, it won't be many more people.

But it's still dangerous out there. So anybody who's trying to drive through standing water, risk their lives. Anyone out there who goes around barricades, which we've seen risk their lives, and they risk pulling resources that are out there responding in dangerous situations to have to come and rescue them. So we're just asking everybody to do their part to stay safe and ensure our first responders could be where they're needed the most.

BROWN: What kind of obstacles are the rescuers facing right now? Are -- are the highways open? What's the lay of the land in that regard?

BESHEAR: So we've got low ceilings for helicopters. We were really only able to get helicopters off the ground today, and this flooding started on Saturday. But thankfully, we've got a whole bunch in the air right now that are helping us out. The current in the water also will -- will depend on whether or not our swift boat groups can get there and or efficient wildlife boats can get to different people.

The inability to get to some areas and -- and where power has failed are -- are probably the other obstacles. But sadly, we've gotten pretty good at this from -- from having to respond so many times, and -- and our people have gotten better and better every time in our emergency operations center, which I'm in, we made changes even from July of 2022, where we were able to pre-position the boat teams where we knew the flooding was coming because the National Weather Service was such a great ally and gave us such good information.

So while we have obstacles, we -- we have been preparing and preparing and getting better and better. Because when this happens, we want to lose as few people as possible because we got 11 hurting families out there, 11 children of God that aren't with us anymore, and we want to make sure we don't lose anybody else.

BROWN: Absolutely. My -- my heart hurt for them. And just the -- the stories are coming out now that the mother with her seven-year-old in -- in the car being killed because of this flooding. And there are other just horrible tragic stories. My -- my understanding is that FEMA is on the ground there in Kentucky. The Trump administration seems set on reforming or even possibly eliminating the agency and leaving it to the states to take care of these natural disasters. What is your response to that? What role is FEMA playing right now?

BESHEAR: I've been outspoken on the need for FEMA to continue and to be funded. And the idea that if FEMA was gone, every state would have to process all the applications for individual assistance and public assistance. Are there some parts that the states could probably do better? Sure. But we need a partner in FEMA. We need it to be fixed, not broken. But with that said, FEMA is in here and they are operating just like they have at any other natural disaster.

Secretary Noem and President Trump turned around the disaster declaration in near record time. So while I have a disagreement on the future of FEMA, which I think is needed, the President, the Secretary and FEMA are doing a great job here with us right now.

BROWN: Governor Andy Beshear, thank you so much. Best of luck.

BESHEAR: Thank you.

[11:08:46]

BROWN: Well, CNN has new reporting this morning about Elon Musk's DOGE team and its push to access sensitive information about Americans at the IRS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Some new CNN reporting to bring you this morning. The Department of Government Efficiency, led by Elon Musk, wants access to sensitive private information about taxpayers and that access could be given imminently. Musk seemed to hint about wanting that IRS data less than a week ago during this Oval Office event with President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: In the bureaucracy who -- who have an ostensibly a salary of a few hundred thousand dollars, but somehow managed to accrue tens of millions of dollars in net worth while they are in that position, which is, you know, what -- what happened to USAID. We're just curious as to where it came from. If you look at, say, Treasury, for example, basic controls that should be in place that are in place in -- in any company, such as making sure that any given payment has a payment categorization code, that there is a comment field that describes the payment and that if -- if a payment is on the do not pay list, that you don't actually pay it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Alayna Treene joins us now. So what more can you tell us? Your -- your reporting is that this could all happen imminently with the access.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: That's exactly right, Pamela. Look, the Department of Government Efficiency is turning its focus now to the IRS, and it's just the latest agency, really, that DOGE and Elon Musk, you know, personally are trying to look at and -- and kind of seep into to see if there's any of what they call waste, fraud or abuse within its systems. But just to break it down a little bit more for you. So the IRS has a very highly sensitive taxpayer data system.

[11:15:06]

This is what -- what the DOGE, well, at least one of their employees, is trying to gain access to. This includes, you know, their data system includes having access to social security numbers, bank statements, personal identifying information. Now, I'm told at least one employee, a software engineer, working under DOGE is being granted, or is in the process of being granted, access to this system. They are temporarily working at the IRS, I'm told, for at least 120 days, and this is where they're expected to do some of their work.

As you mentioned, Pamela, I am told that this employee, Gavin Kliger, is expected to be granted access imminently as of last night at 9:00 p.m. He had not yet had access, but they expected to have that access shortly. I just want to read to you, though, when I asked the White House about this, what the statement from a spokesperson, Harrison Fields, told me. They said, quote, DOGE will continue to shine a light on the fraud they uncover, as the American people deserve to know what their government has been spending their hard-earned tax dollars on.

Now, I'm also told, Pamela, that currently the IRS is considering a memorandum of understanding, as they call it, that would give wider access to DOGE to kind of dig into this system. And just to break down for you, one of the things that I -- I've heard is of most concern from people, whether at the IRS or in other places throughout the government, there's a system called the Integrated Data Retrieval System, the IDRS, as it's known.

Just to dig into what that is, it contains some of the most highly sensitive and personal data on millions of Americans, including Social Security numbers, their tax returns, bank account information, addresses, and other person -- personal identifying information. For one example, just to give you a sense of -- of what one person pointed us to, the IDRS includes information about taxpayers pending adoption, so parents can claim dependency exemptions and child care tax credits, all to say this is just the latest move by DOGE to get in to some of these internal systems to see what they're looking for.

But the concern, of course, is whether they have the authority to do this, and also having some of these people who are not typically in these agencies gaining access to this very personal and highly sensitive data. Pamela?

BROWN: All right. I -- I interviewed a former IRS commissioner earlier in the show who said, look, I'm all for this effort to weed out fraud, waste, and abuse, but question the need to access this system to do so, and said it's highly unusual for someone, a political appointee or someone of that nature, to gain access to it because of the sensitive private personal information of Americans in there.

TREENE: Right.

BROWN: Alayna Treene, excellent reporting. Thank you so much.

And new this morning, the FAA appears to be the next government agency on Elon Musk's radar. We've learned a team of engineers from SpaceX, which is owned by Musk, plans to visit an FAA command center today. That visit comes as the Trump administration started firing hundreds of probationary workers at the agency, according to their union. CNN's Pete Muntean is with us now. Pete, what's the purpose of this visit?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, the latest development here is that now engineers working for Elon Musk will be visiting the FAA Air Traffic Control Command Center in Warrington, Virginia today. That, plus these firings, are truly uncharted territory for the FAA, which oversees an air travel system that's stressed to the max right now. Remember, the FAA's air traffic control equipment is aging, and the system that delivers mandatory pilot safety alerts failed just days after the crash that killed 67 people over D.C. hasn't even been three weeks since that crash, and DOGE has had its eye on the FAA ever since.

Now the concern is when these federal workers return from the long weekend tomorrow, they could be barred from FAA facilities. The workers impacted here are members of a union called PASS. That is the Professional Aviation Safety Specialist Union, part of the AFL-CIO. Union President Dave Sparrow tells me between 2 and 300 FAA workers started receiving firing notices from the Trump administration starting late on Friday.

These are the workers who help maintain critical infrastructure that keep the air traffic control system operating. He says not only were these workers fired without cause, but that this was hardly a surgical move by the Trump administration, that it's dangerous to public safety, and especially unconscionable in the aftermath of the crashes that have been grabbing headlines over the last month.

It's important to note here, these are probationary employees, meaning they've been on the job for less than a year. So this is the next generation of FAA employees at an agency that's had a hard time keeping up with retirements and attrition. So far, the FAA has not returned my request for comment, but we do know this from Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, who announced the visit by Musk's team.

He posted on X that President Trump is ordering a new air traffic control system and called for help not just from private industry, but any high-tech American developer in overhauling the FAA. So we're talking about private individuals as well. Important to keep the context here, Pam, this is happening during a very busy weekend for air travel, seeing as though it's a long weekend. In fact, some of the garages at Reagan National Airport were packed already on Friday. On Friday, about 2.5 million people passed through security at America's airports. A pretty big weekend for air travel.

[11:20:24]

BROWN: It certainly is. Pete Muntean, thank you so much.

Well, the IRS and FAA are joining the growing list of agencies targeted by President Trump as he tries to overhaul the federal government. And his actions are leading to lawsuits, including one involving a government watchdog who was suing after he was let go. A federal court reinstated him while his case is still pending, but now the Trump administration wants the Supreme Court to step in. Sarah Krissoff joins us now. She's a former prosecutor with the Southern District of New York. Thanks for joining us. So this involves a man who led the agency that protects whistleblowers.

The Justice Department wants the Supreme Court to lift that lower court ruling and keep him off the job while the case proceeds. What do you think will happen? Do you think the Supreme Court will take the case?

SARAH KRISSOFF, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, this is a real test for the Supreme Court here. Are they going to get involved, or are they going to let this play out in the lower court? So all that's really happened so far is that the district courts, sort of the lowest court, paused the termination of Hampton Dellinger while, you know, this all sort of sorted itself out, and there was a discussion about whether or not President Trump was able to fire Dellinger at this point.

The appellate court upheld that pause, said, OK, we're going to -- there was some dissent in the ranks there, but it said, we're going to keep this pause and let this play out, like, prevent this firing from happening, keep the status quo. And -- and now Trump's team has brought this to the Supreme Court. So this is sort of the first test of them weighing in on these really exceptional personnel decisions Trump's team has made so far.

BROWN: And what does this all mean in terms of separation of powers and the test of that?

KRISSOFF: So it -- it's a little alarming, actually. The -- the President certainly has broad discretion to replace personnel. In this particular case, Dellinger was appointed for a five-year term. He has some protections awarded by Congress. I think that is because of the nature of the work he does. He's essentially there to ensure their -- their -- the whistleblowers are protected. He's investigating government misconduct. He's investigating prohibited actions against federal employees. So I think for all of those reasons, it certainly was in Trump's crosshairs and Trump wanted him out. But there are certain protections, he has limited protections against his firing and we'll see what the Supreme Court does with that.

BROWN: We'll be watching for sure. Sarah Krissoff, thank you so much.

[11:23:04]

Well, the nation's top diplomat, Secretary of State Marco Rubio arriving in Saudi Arabia, had a pivotal talks with Russia over ending the war in Ukraine. What Ukraine's president is saying this morning about Ukraine's participation or lack thereof, I should say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, this morning, the top U.S. diplomat is in Saudi Arabia to hold peace talks about Russia's war on Ukraine. Just minutes ago, we received this new video of Secretary of State Marco Rubio meeting with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman at the Royal Palace in Riyadh. But it's noteworthy who is not at the table during this trip. That would be Ukraine, the country that was illegally invaded by Russia three years ago. Ukraine's president questions how much can be achieved without his country represented.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Ukraine will not participate. Ukraine knew nothing about them. Ukraine perceives any negotiations about Ukraine without Ukraine as those with no results. We cannot recognize anything or any agreements about us without us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Also new this morning, a sobering reality check. Russia's foreign minister implies that the Kremlin is not willing to make concessions to broker a peace deal. There is a lot to unfold. So let's bring in our panel. I want to go to you first. Former CNN Moscow bureau chief, Jill Daugherty, for your perspective. So with a single phone call last week, President Trump effectively ended the international isolation of Vladimir Putin. Does the Russian president enter these talks stronger and more emboldened in your view?

JILL DAUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think so. I mean, or at least as strong as he was before. I mean, look at what he's already gotten. If you look specifically Ukraine, he has no Ukraine in NATO, his territorial concessions, in other words, the land Russia has taken from Ukraine, that's going to be considered Russian. He's getting -- getting hints at ending sanctions, economic sanctions against Russia. He has the exclusion, as you just noted, of the Ukrainian president.

[11:29:55]

And we have can't forget the Europeans. We have the burden sharing. Now the Trump administration is pushing the burden for carrying out any type of ceasefire or whatever this will be.