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Russian And U.S. Delegations Set To Begin Ukraine Talks; Airport: At Least 18 Injured As Plane Flips After Landing; Vatican: Pope In Stable Condition With "Complex" Infection; Crowds Gather in Israel to Demand Return of Remaining Hostages; Hezbollah Rejects Israel's Plan to Keep Troops in Lebanon; U.S. Judge Expected to Rule on Case That Could Rein in Musk; Prince and Princess of Wales Get Artsy With Their Kids. Aired 2-2:45a ET

Aired February 18, 2025 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world, and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max, I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead, face to face U.S. and Russian officials are set to meet, hoping to negotiate an end to the war in Ukraine, despite a notable absence. Also.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hit the ground and we were sideways, and then we were upside down, hanging like that.

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CHURCH: All 80 people aboard survived the incredible scene in Toronto as investigators tried to figure out what happened.

Plus, the pope asks for prayers as he remains in the hospital battling an infection.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Good to have you with us. Well, first to the Saudi capital, where any moment now, face to face talks between Russia and the U.S. will get underway over the conflict in Ukraine. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov says the meeting will also aim to end what he calls an abnormal period between two great powers.

U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has framed the talks as a way of determining whether Russia is serious about ending the fighting.

But key players have been sidelined, including Ukraine's leader, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will instead be meeting with the Turkish president in the hours ahead to discuss a strategic partnership.

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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Ukraine perceives any negotiations about Ukraine without Ukraine as those with no results. We cannot recognize anything or any agreements about us without us.

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CHURCH: Europe has also been left out of the Riyadh meeting, leaders held emergency talks in Paris focused on ramping up defense spending and on possibly deploying European troops to Ukraine.

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PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): A window of opportunity opens because the United States administration is laying the foundations so that conversations that lead to peace begin. Well, we welcome those talks, but we need to remember that this can't be a false closure. We can't repeat the mistakes of the past.

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CHURCH: I want to bring in CNN's Fred Pleitgen now, he's live in Moscow. Good to see you, Fred.

So, what's expected to come out of these direct negotiations with te -- between the United States and Russia?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, direct, very important negotiations, obviously, the first time, Rosemary, in a very long time that the U.S. and Russia are meeting directly face to face.

And I think there's several things that we can already ascertain about these talks. On the one hand, we have heard that they're only going to be going on for today. They do also seem to be very exploratory in nature.

Both sides are saying, look, we're trying to feel each other out, see what's positive, what's possible, what is not going to be possible.

But there are also some key differences between the two sides. If you look at or listen to, for instance, at Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, he keeps saying the reason why this meeting has happened -- happening is because of President Trump's desire to end the Ukraine war as fast as possible.

So, that definitely seems to be by far the most important item on the agenda for the United States, and sort of see where Russia is at and whether or not something like that is possible.

Of course, we have heard from the U.S. president in the past couple of weeks were, on the one hand, he was talking about his good relations with Vladimir Putin. He was talking about good will that he's seen from the Russians, for instance, in the release of a U.S. person who was in custody here in Russia, Marc Fogel, on drug charges.

But then, also, he criticized Vladimir Putin as well, saying that he believes Putin is destroying the country and that he needs to end the war as fast as possible.

As far as the Russian delegation is concerned, it seems as though their agenda appears to be more broad than that. They keep talking about wanting to normalize relations between Russia and the United States. You already alluded to Sergey Lavrov saying he believes that it's in an unnatural state.

And yesterday, when the Russians touched down, one of the other chief negotiators, Yuri Ushakov, he told a prominent Russian journalist called Evgeny Popov that the goal for the Russians is to normalize relations between Russia and the United States.

And of course, that for them means diplomatic relations, but also very much means sanctions relief and economic relations as well.

[02:05:07]

And if we look at the makeup of the delegations, the sort of people who are doing the negotiating on the Russian side, you have Yuri Ushakov, who's a very senior Kremlin aide. You have Sergey Lavrov, the foreign minister, who of course, is a very seasoned diplomat. And then you also have Kirill Dmitriev, who's the head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund, which seems to show that there is certainly an economic element to all of this as well.

But again, right now, both sides are saying all of this very much exploratory. They want to see where they are at at this point in time.

And of course, because it's the first talks in such a long time, there are a lot of things on the agenda where the two sides are going to really have to get to know each other, get to know each other's positions, and see how far all this is going to be able to go, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And Fred, you spoke to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently. What sense did you get from him that Russia is willing to make a deal?

PLEITGEN: Yes, so a deal -- a deal on Ukraine. First and foremost is what we're talking about at that point in time. Of course, that's really what's on the mind of the U.S. President of Donald Trump.

And one of the things that Trump administration has said is that they believe that both sides are going to have to make painful compromises.

So, we were at a press conference yesterday with Sergey Lavrov shortly before he then took to Riyadh to go to those negotiations. And I asked him what compromises the Russians are willing to make. And here's what he said.

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PLEITGEN: Which territorial concessions, in general, which compromises is Russia willing to make to achieve such a peace agreement?

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): To cede how with people, with Russians or without people with only rare earth metals, for what? So that Russians can be destroyed like they are now being destroyed in the Kursk region and in other regions of the Russian Federation.

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PLEITGEN: So, you see there seemingly a pretty hard line position by the Russian foreign minister. And that's really something that we've been hearing here on the ground in Moscow over the past couple of days, is that these negotiations that are starting right now, while they are historic and while the Russians do have a great deal of optimism, are not going to be easy, especially as far as the conflict in Ukraine is concerned, where the Russians certainly seem in no mood to cede any of the territory that they've taken on the Ukrainian side of the border.

But at the same time, they're also saying that they don't want the territory that the Ukrainians hold on the Russian side of the border to be part of the negotiations they say they are going to take that territory back militarily, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Fred Pleitgen joining us live from Moscow. Many thanks for that live report.

Well, now to Paris and Steven Erlanger, Chief diplomatic correspondent for The New York Times, good to have you with us.

STEVEN ERLANGER, CHIEF DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Thank you, Rosemary. Nice to be with you.

CHURCH: Good. So, American and Russian officials are now set to meet very soon, in fact, in Saudi Arabia in an effort to find a path to peace in Ukraine. But Europe and Kyiv have been shut out of these talks, and that's why European leaders urgently arranged Monday's meeting in Paris. What all came out of that meeting, and how does Europe feel about what looks like blatant American hostility?

ERLANGER: Well, they were quite shocked by the tone of American officials all last week, first in Brussels, with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, his first meeting with Europeans criticizing them sharply and almost threatening to pull American troops out of Europe gradually.

Then the Munich Security Conference with Vice President J.D. Vance, criticizing them for their democratic failures without pointing to America's own. And then there was just this feeling from Keith Kellogg, Mr. Trump's envoy, one of his envoys for Ukraine, that Europe should have a role.

I mean, it should support Ukraine and provide peacekeeping troops eventually, but wouldn't have a seat at the table now, Ukraine will certainly have a seat at the table eventually. And I think the U.S.- Russia talks really are to see whether, as your correspondence says, Russia is serious, and to start talking about how such talks should work.

So, I think it's a little early to say it's going to be done over the head of Ukrainians, but not too early to say it's being done over the head of Europeans.

And so, this meeting was called by French President Emmanuel Macron, who loves the spotlight, loves to show himself off as Europe's leader, even as he's terribly weakened at home. And he called a collection of some of Europe's largest nations for informal talks about how to respond to the Americans and how to support Ukraine.

Now, this created some division inside Europe because countries were left out, and many countries said this should have been done at the European level, a meeting convened by the president of European Council, Antonio Costa, not by Macron, who was a bit of a showboat.

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But still, the people who attended were serious, and they said there was a good discussion of increased military spending, of the kinds of options they're thinking about in terms of securing Ukraine if a peace deal is ever made, let's be honest, there's no indication Russia wants one right now.

And even thirdly, how best to deal with the Trump challenge and this hostility?

So, that was an interesting discussion, and I think it was a helpful one.

CHURCH: And as European leaders explore options for putting their own troops on the ground in Ukraine, once a cease fire is eventually in place, they want -- they want to know how much non troop support they'll get, don't they from the United States such as intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities. When might they know this, and how far do you think the U.S. will go in supporting European efforts in Ukraine?

ERLANGER: I think it's all very preliminary, because, I mean, we don't know what -- first, we don't know whether there's going to be a cease fire or a peace settlement. And if there's a peace settlement, what security guarantees Ukraine will want.

Now, Ukraine is nearly 900,000 troops in uniform. So, it's not like Europe has to do everything, but I would think it would take at least 40,000 troops, and they don't all have to be European.

And in fact, Mr. Putin may not allow European troops that may be part of -- part of a final deal. Who knows? But they could be spread out along Ukraine's very, very long border with Russia. But if they're tested, that's your question too. What would happen? Who would come to reinforce them? Would there be a war? Would America provide important things like air lift, more artillery, more Patriot missiles?

Doesn't have to be American troops on the ground, but air cover is vital. There are things that the American military has and does that the Europeans don't have, have never needed and would take five to 10 years to purchase.

So, it is a very important question, but it's all very preliminary. We don't know whether it ends up being a monitoring force, a peace keeping force, a tripwire force, or any force at all, to be honest.

CHURCH: Right. Very much at first steps here. Steven Erlanger, thank you so much for talking with us. We appreciate it.

ERLANGER: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well, now to that very frightening plane crash in Toronto that passengers and airport authorities say could have been so much worse. A commuter jet with 80 people on board made a hard landing in windy and snowy conditions, flipped upside down and sheared off at least one wing as part of the plane caught fire.

Everyone got out safely. At least 18 people were taken to hospital, although authorities say none of the injuries appear to be life threatening. One passenger recorded the evacuation on his cell phone.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything, drop it. Come on. (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hit the ground, and we were sideways, and then we were upside down, hanging like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: The Delta flight, operated by Endeavor Air, was flying from Minneapolis, Saint Paul to Toronto.

More now from CNN's Paula Newton.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: The investigation is already underway in what was an absolutely stunning crash with an equally startling outcome. Everyone survived. That is 76 passengers, four crew, all evacuated. There are injuries, but none are life threatening.

At this point in time, the officials at Toronto Airport saying that they really commend their first responders, and of course, the crew and passengers.

I do want you to listen now to one of those passengers describing exactly what it was like. Listen.

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JOHN NELSON, PASSENGER: When we hit, it was just a super hard light, like, I hit the ground and the plane went sideways, and I believe we skidded, like on our side and then flipped over on our back where we ended out. There was like a big fireball out this left side of the plane. And when we got finished, it was -- I was upside down.

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NEWTON: Now, survivors did explain that they thought there was a lot of snow and ice on the runway. That will certainly be something that's look into in this investigation, and obviously the wind speeds as well.

I was at the Toronto Airport just an hour before this incident, and it was more snow than I had seen in the airport in many years of going through that location, crews were working very hard to try and clear the runways of snow.

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All of this to be sorted out by the Canadian Transportation Safety Board. They are leading this investigation, but working closely, certainly with U.S. officials who are already in Toronto, beginning to try and unravel exactly what happened here.

Paula Newton, CNN, New York.

CHURCH: David Soucie is a CNN Safety Analyst and former FAA safety inspector. Appreciate you joining us.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Thanks for having me, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So far we know that 18 people were injured after this Delta passenger plane crash landed in Toronto in very windy conditions on a snowy tarmac, flipping upside down, ripping off the wings, then bursting into flames on one side. What do all these details tell you about what went wrong?

SOUCIE: Well, what it tells me a lot, Rosemary, everything that could go wrong went wrong, yet still, 80 people survived the accident. And what that tells me is just the preparedness and the attention to safety, everything that happened to make sure that these people were safe happened, and I believe that that starts at the top, the CEO of the airport. I wrote down her name, Deborah Flint. She really did the right thing by getting prepared. Every the equipment was all there. Everything was there and ready for this to happen, and they were there almost instantaneously to put that fire out and save lives.

CHURCH: And what else would you be looking for in this early part of the investigation. And how long might it take Do you think to determine the cause of this crash?

SOUCIE: Well, I think that the determination of the cause could be determined pretty quickly within a week or two, I believe, but before we get have a preliminary report, it usually takes 30 days for that. Particularly up in Canada, the Canadian Transportation Safety Board will take that long to put out their preliminary report.

But in looking at this, there are a lot of clues that you can see right away. The things I'd be looking at right away are, was it a hard landing? We look at the fact that the landing gear aren't on the aircraft. So are they there, or did they get torn off in the accident? Or perhaps they weren't even down at the time? So, there's a lot of questions, but I think a quick visual of the

aircraft on site would give them a lot of clues as to where this goes.

CHURCH: And how surprised are you that this crash didn't end up worse than it already did?

SOUCIE: Well, I'll tell you, it could have been much worse. It gave me flashbacks of an accident in Denver in 1987 which was a DC-9 that flipped over in Denver and had passengers on board.

Unfortunately, in that -- tragically, in that, 25 people did not survive that accident. And I think comparing the two being in safety all these years and trying to improve safety, really having this comparison between the two that are so similar tells me that the advancements in the things that have been done, like the 16g seats, at making the seats stronger and more secure. That's different in this accident compared to the one that I experienced before.

The other one is that the wings on that one in 1987 stayed there and actually destroyed the aircraft and continued to crush the aircraft, even after it had flipped over.

In this case, the wings broke loose and that's a good thing. That's by design. When an aircraft goes there, you don't want that wing ripping the fuselage in half. You want to make sure that it breaks away as it's supposed to, to let that aircraft slowly come to a stop. And really saved a lot of lives.

CHURCH: Yes, that is an interesting point of it. And I did want to ask you why you thought the plane flipped.

SOUCIE: Yes. I think that that has a lot to do with the crosswind, regardless of whether it was a hard landing or whatever happened. As you land an airplane with the cross wind and the reports say that there was a 35 knot crosswind, meaning, that it was coming at the aircraft from the side.

And so, what happens there is the aircraft has to approach crabbed into that. It has to point into the wind, even though the runway is here, you're pointing into the wind. And at the last moment, you've got to crank that around so that you're going to land straight, make sure the wheels are straight. And when you do that, that right wing can come up and catch the wind and cause it to roll.

So, that's one of the reasons that you have to be careful. But if that runway was icy and it landed that way, made that last minute move, it could then start drifting sideways and cause the aircraft to go over. But that crosswind has a lot to do with what got under the wing and may have caused that aircraft to roll.

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CHURCH: And it sounds like you were very impressed with the way Canadian authorities dealt with this. When you look at the video of the evacuation process, how would you describe that? SOUCIE: Oh, I think it was so smooth. You can even see the flight crews and the assistant people that were helping people off. They were smiling at them and reassuring people and helping them off the airplane.

You know, I was involved in the certification of the Airbus 380 and we did that as evacuation tests. And in that, we experienced being upside down with that lap belt on, and when you're six feet above, looking down at that, it takes a lot of guts to just go ahead and release that belt, because you're going to fall straight down on your head.

In my case, I grabbed the side handles, thinking that would save me, but the side handles just came up forward like this, and I went straight down on my head. And it's quite an experience. It takes a lot of guts to do it, so it's very, very -- I really admire, and I'm very proud of how the crews were able to ease the passengers and get them off the plane without taking a bunch of garbage with them too. I noticed very few people had anything in their hands, which is the way we need to do that.

CHURCH: Yes, I think I just heard one person being scolded to drop something, but amazing how this ended.

David Soucie, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate your analysis.

SOUCIE: Of course, Rosemary, anytime.

CHURCH: Still to come, Pope Francis is still in hospital in Rome. We will get an update on his condition after short breaks. Stay with us.

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CHURCH: Pope Francis is in stable condition in hospital, according to the Vatican, doctors have been adjusting his treatment to deal with a complex respiratory infection.

CNN's Christopher Lamb has the latest from Rome.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: The Vatican providing an update on Pope Francis' health condition at the end of his fourth day here at the Rome's Gemelli Hospital behind me. The Vatican saying in a statement that the Pope is in a stable condition, that he continues to be without a fever and is continuing the prescribed therapy.

They also said that he has dedicated his time to some work activities and reading texts. Now, the doctors had told the Pope to have a complete rest, but as we know, Francis is pretty relentless when it comes to doing his job, but the Pope is battling with a serious respiratory tract infection that is taking a number of different treatments to deal with, the treatment the Pope has had has changed twice.

Now, it's unclear how long the Pope will stay in hospital. The Vatican not given a timetable. It all depends on how he responds to the prescribed therapy.

The 88-year-old Pope has been suffering from respiratory problems for a number of days, he's been struggling to speak, and he was hospitalized on Friday.

I actually saw him on the day he was hospitalized, and it was clear he was really finding it very difficult to talk because of the breathing difficulties.

We're going to have further updates from the Vatican up to date, and of course, we'll be updating as soon as we hear more information.

Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.

CHURCH: Still to come, families of hostages are vowing to keep up the pressure on Israel's government until their loved ones return home. The latest on the Israel, Hamas ceasefire deal is next.

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[02:32:05]

CHURCH: It's more than 500 days since the start of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, and Israeli residents are not letting the government forget the hostages who haven't returned home. Crowds filled the streets on Monday in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, were demanding the release of the hostages in Gaza. Their families are worried a breakdown of the fragile ceasefire agreement could further delay the return of their loved ones.

This comes as a source to CNN, Israel is preparing to receive the remains of an unknown number of hostages from Gaza later this week. It will be the first handover of deceased hostages since the ceasefire began, although Israel's military has previously recovered multiple bodies.

In Lebanon, the deadline has passed for Israel and Hezbollah to withdraw all their troops from southern Lebanon per a ceasefire agreement. But Israel's plan to keep limited troops at five points, in places they're calling strategic points have, sparked stern reaction from the militant group. Hezbollah's leader has rejected the plan, noting it would be in direct violation of the ceasefire agreement.

One extension has already been granted, and the Lebanese Parliament speaker is refusing to consider another, noting that it's up to the U.S. to enforce Israel's withdrawal from the region.

In the next 24 hours, a U.S. federal judge is expected to rule on a case challenging Elon Musk's role in the Trump Administration. Several states have sued to keep Musk and his D.O.G.E. team from accessing critical government systems, but the judge is asking for more proof that Musk's firing of federal employees and access to confidential data would cause real harm. CNN's Evan Perez has details.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR U.S. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It was a rare court hearing on President's Day and Judge Tanya Chutkan appeared un -- at least at this point, un-inclined to grant a temporary restraining order against Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency in accessing the data of government workers. One of the things that the judge said from her -- from the bench today is that she believed that the states that have sued the government don't have enough proof, beyond media reports, of actual harm coming to those states.

I'll read you just a part of what she said from the bench today. She said the court can't act based on media reports. We can't do that. We can certainly take judicial notice of them, but they can't form a basis, I don't think of me finding that a temporary restraining order is warranted because of imminent harm.

Now, a group of states were pushing for the judge to block Elon Musk's DOGE or Department of Government Efficiency from accessing data at the Office of Personal Management and some of the other government departments across Washington.

[02:35:00]

The judge promised to make a ruling, an official ruling within 24 hours, but for now, she is not -- she does not seem inclined to grant that request.

Evan Perez, CNN, Washington.

CHURCH: "CNN Newsroom" continues after a short break.

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CHURCH: Family time for the British Royals at Kensington Palace can get quite artsy. On X Monday, the Prince and Princess of Wales shared portraits drawn by Princess Catherine herself and their three children, George, Charlotte, and Louis.

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Their artworks are of each other, captioning the post the Royals highlighted, "A moment of connection the drawing portraits with children can bring as well as lots of fun." Earlier this month, Princess Kate inaugurated a new exhibit at London's National Portrait Gallery that encourages children to draw self-portraits.

I want to thank you so much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. "World Sport" is coming up next. Then I'll be back in about 15 minutes with more "CNN newsroom." Do stick around.

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