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U.S., Russian Counterparts Discuss the End of War in Ukraine; Investigators Figure Out the Delta 4819 Crash Landing that Survived 80 People Onboard; Students Involved in Pro-Palestinian Protests Face Consequences; Mexican President Threatens to Sue Google for Gulf of America Renaming. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired February 18, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead.

Face-to-face. U.S. and Russian officials meet, hoping to negotiate an end to the war in Ukraine despite a notable absence.

Also --

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PETER KOUKOS, PASSENGER: We hit the ground and we were sideways and then we were upside down, hanging like that.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CHURCH: All 80 people aboard survived the incredible scene in Toronto as investigators try to figure out what happened.

Plus, the Pope asks for prayers as he remains in the hospital battling an infection.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: And we go first to the Saudi capital, where the U.S. and Russia are now holding face to face talks over the conflict in Ukraine. The delegations gathered just a short time ago, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says the meeting will also aim to end what he calls an abnormal period between two great powers.

U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has framed the talks as a way of determining whether Russia is serious about ending the fighting. But key players have been sidelined, including Ukraine's leader. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will instead be meeting with the Turkish president in the hours ahead to discuss a strategic partnership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Ukraine perceives any negotiations about Ukraine, without Ukraine, as those with no results. We cannot recognize anything or any agreements about us, without us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Europe has also been left out of the Riyadh meeting. Leaders held emergency talks in Paris, focused on ramping up defense spending and on possibly deploying European troops to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): A window of opportunity opens because the United States administration is laying the foundations so that conversations that lead to peace begin. Well, we welcome those talks, but we need to remember that this can't be a false closure. We can't repeat the mistakes of the past.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: CNN's Clare Sebastian is standing by in London. But we begin with our Frederik Pleitgen, who joins us live from Moscow. Good morning to you, Fred.

So what's expected to come out of these direct negotiations between the United States and Russia? And is Moscow serious about making a Ukraine peace deal?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's certainly something that I think is still in the very early stages. We can see that meeting, as you've mentioned, is now underway.

And by the looks of the makeup of that room, it's obviously very senior delegations, both from the U.S. and from Russia, meeting for the first time, really, in years. But you can also see in that room that clearly the Saudis are playing a very important mediating role as well.

So just from that vantage point, this meeting, obviously a very important and a very historic one. It was quite interesting because on Russian state T.V., after that meeting happened, one of the negotiators, Kirill Dmitriev, who is, of course, the head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund, he spoke to Russian media and he said he made clear that, look, this is more an exploratory meeting than anything else.

The Russians right now believe that the Trump administration is out to understand Russia's point of view, to speak with Russia, to communicate with Russia, which is something that obviously they felt they hadn't gotten from the Biden administration for various reasons, of course. But he also said, look, right now we're trying to feel each other out. We're looking to see what's possible, what is not possible.

But then when you look at some of the rhetoric, Rosemary, that we've heard from both sides ahead of this meeting, the U.S. has been very clear that for them the key issue is ending the war in Ukraine. It's something that Secretary of State Rubio said that it was President Trump's desire to end the war in Ukraine as fast as possible.

When you hear the Russian side, that is one of the things that is on the agenda for them. But they take a much more broad view, it appears. They keep speaking about normalizing relations between Russia and the United States.

You mentioned that Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister ahead of this meeting, felt that the relations were in an unnatural state with the sides not communicating with one another.

But one of the things that we've seen also in the past couple of days from readouts, from phone calls between Secretary of State Rubio and the Russian foreign minister, but also some of the comments that were made on Russian state T.V. as well, is that the Russians certainly in the future are aiming for sanctions relief and better economic relations with the United States also. So they take a much more broad view.

[03:05:05]

But both sides agree that they are in the early stages. The next thing probably on the agenda for them is as fast as possible trying to get a meeting going between President Trump and the Russian leader, Vladimir Putin, most probably also in Saudi Arabia. The Russians believe that can happen very quickly.

And as far as concessions that the Russians might be willing to make, I was able to ask that question to the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, and he certainly didn't give the impression that the Russians were willing to make territorial concessions as far as the war in Ukraine is concerned.

They obviously hold a considerable amount of territory on the Ukrainian side of the border. But they've also said as far as a pocket that the Ukrainians control on the Russian side of the border in the Kursk region, the Russians want to take that back militarily and they do not want that to be part of any sort of negotiations. Rosemary.

CHURCH: Right. And Clare, let's talk about Europe and Ukraine being left out of these talks. What are the optics and what does it signal?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosemary, I think there is a significant level of concern both in Ukraine and in sort of Europe as a whole here. And I think if you look at the diplomatic calendar that's been taking shape for this week alone, that does betray that level of concern.

Europe -- neither Europe nor Ukraine want to stand by and let the U.S. set the agenda here. So they are on a diplomatic blitz. You can see that just there.

Just today, Zelenskyy will be in Turkey. Tomorrow he heads to Saudi Arabia, though that will be separate from the Russia-U.S. negotiations. And then he expects to host General Kellogg, the Trump administration's Russia-Ukraine envoy in Ukraine on Thursday.

And he says he wants to take him to the front. He wants to show him the critical issues at hand. And he hopes that that meeting will pave the way for a meeting between him and President Trump. So he is not standing by here.

But I think for Europe, the problem that we saw from that meeting in Paris on Monday is that there is at the moment still a lack of cohesion here. Take the issue, for example, of troops on the ground, potential peacekeepers after a ceasefire or some kind of settlement in this conflict.

We have countries like the U.K., for example, Sweden, who say they're open to the idea of sending troops. Then others like Poland and Spain say that they -- they're not ready to commit to that as of yet.

And then we have Germany. The German chancellor came out and had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLAF SCHOLZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): I'm even a little irritated by these debates. I will say that, quite frankly, people are talking about possible variants of outcomes over Ukraine's heads, about the outcome of peace talks that have not taken place, about which Ukraine has not said yes and has not sat at the table.

This is highly inappropriate, to put it bluntly and honestly. We don't even know what the outcome will be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: So, look, that is not the image that Europe wants to present, really sort of internal divisions even before they've managed to secure a seat at the table in peace talks.

And of course, we know Russia looks very closely, watches very closely for signs of disunity in Europe and certainly tries to exploit it in their propaganda.

And I think, look, if as President Zelenskyy has suggested, Europe is to have one envoy to represent all of its views and opinions at these peace talks, that will be an immense challenge. They also want to include the U.K., which is, of course, no longer in the European Union.

So, again, I think as Fred was pointing out, things are still in the early stages. You see the scale of the challenge ahead when you already have these kinds of early teething problems.

CHURCH: Indeed, we do. Clare Sebastian and Fred Pleitgen, many thanks to you both for those live reports. I appreciate it.

A bipartisan group of U.S. senators paid a visit to the Ukrainian capital on Monday and they underscored the importance of Ukraine's presence and participation in any negotiations related to the conflict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): I don't think we believe any just peace can be reached without the participation and leadership of Ukraine, without the participation of Europe. And I don't believe that any agreement can be done behind Ukraine's back.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Of course they have to be at the table. There are thousands of people who have given their lives to defend this country.

Does anybody really believe that the United States would negotiate an agreement with a European nation that's done what they've done on the battlefield, that's suffered what they have, and not be at the table? Of course they will. And you'll see that in the coming weeks and months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: We go now live to Kyiv, and to Kira Rudyk, a member of the Ukrainian parliament. Thank you so much for talking with us.

KIRA RUDYK, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER AND LEADER OF UKRAINE'S GOLOS PARTY: Hello, Rosemary, and thank you so much for having me.

CHURCH: Good to see you. So what are your main concerns about these direct talks between the United States and Russia in Saudi Arabia right now, while Ukraine and Europe don't have a seat at the negotiating table?

RUDYK: Well, Rosemary, the concern is that at some point in history, people decided that there should be no negotiations with terrorists, right?

[03:10:02]

And right now, it seems that this idea is not on the table anymore, and that you can invade a sovereign state, commit all kinds of war crimes, and just try to get away with that, because the leader of the free world will be talking to you and trying to figure out any kind of agreement with you.

We in Ukraine say one thing, and we have been saying this since the beginning of the full-scale invasion. There is one language that Russia understands the best. It's the language of power, the language of force.

And we have been able to show the world how you should deal with Russia. We have been showing that in 2014, when we had a sort of ceasefire deal with Russia, there has not been a day when this deal was honored by Russia.

So that's why we are saying, look, by fighting Russia, we have shown how you should talk to them, and this is the only way of dealing and finding any kind of resolution. But for some reason, there are illusions that you can find an agreement with Russia, which we strongly believe is impossible.

CHURCH: The United States is saying that these are exploratory talks. But why do you think the U.S. has so blatantly shut out any Ukrainian or European representation at these negotiations with Russia?

RUDYK: Well, we don't have any information, why is that, right? But we think that there is an opportunity there that the United States are looking to find that maybe there is something that Russia really wants and that they can get that would stop the war and would separate Russia from its alliance with China.

President Trump was very vocal about that, saying that the goal is to take apart this alliance. But of course, it would be very unfortunate if delivering on the United States' key strategic goal, Ukraine will be just a bargaining chip there.

CHURCH: How far is Ukraine willing to go to negotiate a ceasefire? And what do you want from Russia to reach a deal?

RUDYK: Well, Rosemary, for us, the baseline of any peace deal is the security guarantees. As I said, we have already been in agreement with Russia. We know that Russia would not honor that or would not honor it in, like, a long term.

That's why we need to understand first of how do we make sure that Russia would not attack us again. As of right now, it's absolutely unclear how this can be delivered by our allies, both the United States and European Union.

And before that on the table, we cannot talk further, right, because there is no baseline of this deal. And because there were discussions about what Ukraine should give up and territorial gains and losses and Ukraine agreeing on this and that, but no understanding of how are we acting if Russia breaks their part of the deal.

And there is another question, Rosemary, that has not been answered by anyone, but I think it's worth asking many times is, how do you make sure that if there is a peace deal, Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea would stop from ramping up their military production?

What's going to happen next? Do you think that they will just magically stop doing what they are doing right now and then just believe in the peace in the whole world? I do not believe that. We on the ground in Ukraine do not believe that at all.

And we think that the West needs to be mindful of that and be looking at this agreement in like a really holistic way, figuring out how to contradict these military powers that are coming together and continue to develop the weapons of different kinds of destruction to then military attack other countries.

CHURCH: The United States says there will be a separate track of talks with Ukraine in Kyiv. So what long-term security guarantees will Ukraine be asking for once a ceasefire is reached? And what are you expecting to come out of those talks with the United States? RUDYK: Well, first of all, we have seen this in the past, that proper

visit to Ukraine can change people's minds. We have seen European leaders who were not considering supporting Ukraine and then changed their minds after they have been here, talked to people, have seen the destruction, spent a couple of hours in the bomb shelter with everyone while Russia is trying to kill us.

So we have high hopes on Special Envoy Keith Kellogg's visit to Kyiv.

[03:14:57]

And President Zelenskyy said that he would like to take General Kellogg to the front line to show him what we are fighting against and to show him the everyday life and destruction that are happening and how brave the Ukrainian nation is standing against this.

So for us, it is critical that any kind of positions are being taken after this visit when we are able to show the reality on the ground. Then President Zelenskyy was very clear that the key goal for us is to have the controlled territories of Ukraine in NATO. That would be the best security guarantees.

If no, then there should be alternatives. But these alternatives are coming again and again to the willingness of our allies to come in basically confronting Russia in a military way.

Because the main question about any kind of the international forces here is what happens if the British soldier are killed by the drone? What happens if Russia breaks their part of the deal like next day after it is written on signs and agreed on, right?

And before we have an answer to this question, any kind of the deal, they are just like useless, right? We need to understand what happens the day when Russia will break their part. And I can give you a guarantee that they will do that.

Plus, Rosemary, I think people who are discussing security guarantees for Ukraine, they do not take into the consideration that this war is very different from anything that the world have seen. This is a war where the drones are used massively. The missiles are used massively.

And it will be indeed very hard to determine which side the drone came from. And this is why it will be very hard, incredibly hard to accuse Russia on breaking their part of the deal.

So we need to be mindful, taking everything into consideration. And this is why we are waiting for Keith Kellogg to come so we can explain in details what is going on and what we are concerned about.

CHURCH: Kira Rudyk, thank you so much for talking with us. We appreciate it.

RUDYK: Thank you, and Glory to Ukraine.

The plane turned upside down, passengers hanging like bats. The very latest on that crash in windy and snowy Toronto. That's just ahead. Plus, Pope Francis is still in hospital in Rome. We will get an update on his condition. That's just ahead.

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[03:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Flights are coming and going again from Toronto Pearson International Airport after that terrifying plane crash. A commuter jet with 80 people on board made a hard landing in windy and snowy conditions.

Flipped upside down, shearing off at least one wing as part of the plane caught fire. Everyone got out safely. At least 18 people were taken to hospital, although authorities say none of the injuries appear to be life-threatening.

One passenger recorded the evacuation on his cell phone.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KOUKOS: We hit the ground and we were sideways and then we were upside down hanging like bats.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CHURCH: The Delta flight operated by Endeavor Air was flying from Minneapolis and Paul to Toronto. More now from CNN's Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: This crash so easily could have been much worse. Remember, it wasn't even three weeks ago that we were talking about the crash over the Potomac River in Washington, D.C., where all 67 people were killed.

Now, all 80 people have escaped with their lives from a Delta Airlines flight 4819. On its way from Minneapolis to Toronto Pearson International Airport landed around 2:13 p.m. Eastern time on Monday.

When apparently the plane on landing crashed, cartwheeled onto its back, passengers in a dark and on-fire passenger cabin had to evacuate through one of the doors on the right side. Also, one of the emergency overwing exits now turned into an underwing exit if the right wing was still there.

Investigators very much have their work cut out for them. They always look at the airplane, the environment and the pilots. The airplane, not all that abnormal. A CRJ-900, completely full, configured with 76 seats and four crew on board. But the weather and the environment may be the most abnormal part of this incident. The wind at the time of the crash was howling, gusting from 27 to 35 knots, about 40 miles per hour, at a right crosswind as this plane came into land on Toronto Pearson's Runway 23.

The other big question for investigators, was the runway surface contaminated? Meaning, was it slick with ice or was it dry?

Investigators really have their work cut out for them now and Transport -- Canada's Transportation Safety Board will look at this, along with the Federal Aviation Administration in the United States and the National Transportation Safety Board, since this flight did originate from Minneapolis in the U.S.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: David Soucie is a CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector. Appreciate you joining us.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST AND FORMER FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR: Thanks for having me, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So far, we know that 18 people were injured after this Delta passenger plane crash landed in Toronto in very windy conditions on a snowy tarmac, flipping upside down, ripping off the wings, then bursting into flames on one side.

What do all these details tell you about what went wrong?

[03:25:09]

SOUCIE: Well, what it tells me a lot is, Rosemary, everything that could go wrong went wrong, yet still 80 people survived the accident. And what that tells me is just the preparedness and the attention to safety, everything that happened to make sure that these people were safe happened.

And I believe that that starts at the top. The CEO of the airport, I wrote down her name, Deborah Flint. She really did the right thing by getting them prepared, the equipment was all there, everything was there and ready for this to happen.

And they were there almost instantaneously to put that fire out and save lives.

CHURCH: And what else would you be looking for in this early part of the investigation? And how long might it take, do you think, to determine the cause of this crash?

SOUCIE: Well, I think that the determination of the cause could be determined pretty quickly, within a week or two, I believe. But before we have a preliminary report, it usually takes 30 days for that, particularly up in Canada, the Canadian Transportation Safety Board will take that long to put out their preliminary report.

But in looking at this, there are a lot of clues that you can see right away. The things I'd be looking at right away are, was it a hard landing?

We look at the fact that the landing gear aren't on the aircraft. So are they there, or did they get torn off in the accident? Or perhaps they weren't even down at the time.

So there's a lot of questions, but I think a quick visual of the aircraft on site would give them a lot of clues as to where this goes.

CHURCH: And how surprised are you that this crash didn't end up worse than it already did?

SOUCIE: Well, I'll tell you, it could have been much worse. It gave me flashbacks of an accident in Denver in 1987, which was a DC-9 that flipped over in Denver and had passengers on board. Unfortunately in that, tragically in that, 25 people did not survive that accident.

And I think comparing the two, you know, being in safety all these years and trying to improve safety, it really, having this comparison between the two that are so similar, tells me that the advancements and the things that have been done, like the 16-G seats, making the seats stronger and more secure, that's different in this accident compared to the one that I experienced before.

The other one is that the wings on that one in 1987 stayed there and actually destroyed the aircraft and continued to crush the aircraft even after it had flipped over. In this case, the wings broke loose and that's a good thing. That's by design.

When an aircraft goes there, you don't want that wing ripping the fuselage in half. You want to make sure that it breaks away as it's supposed to, to let that aircraft slowly come to a stop and really saved a lot of lives.

CHURCH: Yes, that is an interesting point of it. And I did want to ask you why you thought the plane flipped.

SOUCIE: Yes, I think that that has a lot to do with the crosswind, regardless of whether it was a hard landing or whatever happened. As you land an airplane with a crosswind and the reports say that there was a 35 knot crosswind, meaning that it was coming at the aircraft from the side.

And so what happens there is the aircraft has to approach, crabbed into that. It has to point into the wind, even though the runway's here, you're pointing into the wind and at the last moment, you've got to crank that around so that you're going to land straight, make sure the wheels are straight.

And when you do that, that right wing can come up and catch the wind and cause it to roll. So that's one of the reasons that you have to be careful. But if that runway was icy and it landed that way and made that last minute move, it could then start drifting sideways and cause the aircraft to go over.

But that crosswind has a lot to do with what got under the wing and may have caused that aircraft to roll.

CHURCH: And it sounds like you were very impressed with the way Canadian authorities dealt with this. When you look at the video of the evacuation process, how would you describe that?

SOUCIE: Oh, I think it was so smooth. You can even see the flight crews and the assistant people that were helping people off. They were smiling at them and reassuring people and helping them off the airplane.

You know, I was involved in the certification of the Airbus 380 and we did that as evacuation tests. And in that, we experienced being upside down with that lap belt on. And when you're six feet above, looking down at that, it takes a lot of guts to just go ahead and release that belt because you're going to fall straight down on your head.

In my case, I grabbed the side handles thinking that would save me, but the side handles just came up forward like this and I went straight down on my head.

And it's quite an experience. It takes a lot of guts to do it.

[03:30:00]

So it's very, I really admire and I'm very proud of how the crews were able to ease the passengers and get them off the plane without taking a bunch of garbage with them too. I noticed very few people had anything in their hands, which is the way we need to do that.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I think I just heard one person being scolded to drop something, but amazing how this ended. David Soucie, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate your analysis.

SOUCIE: Of course, Rosemary, anytime.

CHURCH: Still to come, families of hostages are vowing to keep up the pressure on Israel's government until their loved ones return home. The latest on the Israel-Hamas ceasefire deal is next.

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[03:35:03]

CHURCH: It's been more than 500 days since the start of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, and Israeli residents are not letting the government forget the hostages who have not yet returned home.

Crowds filled the streets on Monday in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, demanding the release of the hostages in Gaza. Their families are worried a breakdown of the fragile ceasefire agreement could further delay the return of their loved ones.

This as, a source told CNN, Israel is preparing to receive the remains of an unknown number of hostages from Gaza later this week. It will be the first hand over of deceased hostages since the ceasefire began, although Israel's military has previously recovered multiple bodies. And in Lebanon, the deadline has passed for Israel and Hezbollah to

withdraw all their troops from southern Lebanon as required by a ceasefire agreement. Paula Hancocks joins me now from Abu Dhabi with more on this. So Paula, where do things stand with this deadline right now?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Rosemary, the Israeli military was supposed to withdraw completely from southern Lebanon by today, February 18th. It had already been pushed back once by the Israeli military.

And once again, they are saying that they are going to stay with some troops in this area. There's five outposts that they have said they will be remaining in. These are outposts that have a decent lookout over northern Israeli communities.

Now the military is saying they're doing this to protect those communities because they're accusing the government of not having adequately deployed the Lebanese army into these areas. This was the deal with the ceasefire. Hezbollah and Israel were supposed to withdraw from this area and the Lebanese army was supposed to fill that vacuum.

The Lebanese army rejects Israel's accusations that it's simply not in these areas in time. But what it means at this point is that the Lebanese government has not accepted this extension of the deadline.

We've heard from Nabi Berri, for example, the Speaker of the Parliament in Lebanon, saying that it's up to the Americans now to impose this withdrawal on the Israelis and that Israelis will practice freedom of movement and aggression in Lebanon and this is unacceptable. That a direct quote from the Speaker.

Now what the plan was, if there were going to be these hurdles, which were expected in this implementation of the ceasefire, there is a group in Cairo which is made up of U.S. officials, U.N. and Egyptian officials, and they are supposed to be the ones that will mediate any disagreements between the two sides. So really it now rests to them.

But what we have also seen is that on a near daily basis in southern Israel, the Israeli military has been destroying certain buildings. They say that it is Hezbollah infrastructure and we have seen that some towns in southern Lebanon are effectively in ruins now.

So at this point the Israelis have not explicitly said whether or not they have agreement from the Lebanese side. But it does appear that this will be up to that monitoring unit which was set up as part of this ceasefire to ensure that this ceasefire does continue. Rosemary.

CHURCH: Paula Hancocks, joining us live from Abu Dhabi with that report. Many thanks.

Well, fear is growing among student protesters here in America. President Donald Trump is threatening to deport foreign students who took part in last year's pro-Palestinian demonstrations.

CNN's Elle Reeve sat down with some of the students being targeted. Take a listen to their reactions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, so I'm just going to jump right into it with this.

To all the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protests, we put you on notice. Come 2025, we will find you and we will deport you. I will also quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses which have been infested with radicalism like never before.

Do you think he's talking about you?

BIANCA WAKED, PHD CANDIDATE, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: I think he is absolutely and misguidedly talking about me and others. Yes.

REEVE (voice-over): President Trump said that in a statement about his executive order to combat anti-Semitism.

REEVE: And do you dispute the characterization that these protests were pro-jihadist?

WAKED: Absolutely. I mean, I think that the problem with the protests is that everybody wants to talk about the protests. But nobody wants to actually ask the protesters what the protests were about.

[03:40:02]

REEVE (voice-over): Waked is a grad student at Cornell and a Canadian. She's among several international students who participated in pro- Palestinian protests on campus.

They say opposition to the war in Gaza has been wrongfully portrayed as anti-Semitism, so they fear that the fact that they protested at all is a reason for Trump to target them.

AMANDLA THOMAS-JOHNSON, PHD CANDIDATE, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: I got a text message. I got pictures of black-clad ICE agents in Ithaca, right? And I got really scared. So I'm there in the class.

I had to call someone, basically, and say to them, can you pick me up, pull up right outside the exit of the building, and I'm going to run inside the car.

REEVE (voice-over): There was an ICE raid in Ithaca, and one person was arrested, a 27-year-old Mexican man who pled guilty to third- degree assault charges in New York.

MOMODOU TAAL, PHD STUDENT, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: Of course there's a fear for many international students right now, but that's the intended effect.

With the levels of repression that the universities meted out on their students, it was done in such a way to lull and bring down the protesters. And I think what Trump's trying to do now is a continuation of that kind of policy.

REEVE (voice-over): Taal first faced the threat of deportation under the Biden administration.

Last October, Cornell students protested a campus career fair where two defense contractors were recruiting. Taal and the two other students we spoke to were part of that protest. Students pushed through police to enter the fair and banged pots and pans.

Cornell has punished several participants.

TAAL: I received an email promptly saying that I had been suspended, and then I was told effectively that I would have to leave the country by the end of the week.

REEVE (voice-over): After a public backlash, Cornell said Taal would be allowed to finish his degree and therefore stay in the U.S., but he was still banned from campus and from teaching his courses.

Waked and Thomas-Johnson signed agreements with Cornell and got written reprimands and deferred suspension.

When asked if the school was shutting down debate, a spokesperson referred to a previous statement by Cornell's president saying students were punished because they forced their way past police, so they were not peaceful.

REEVE: Were you officially accused of anti-Semitism or hate speech?

THOMAS-JOHNSON: Absolutely not. No. I know, of course, that Donald Trump's executive order talks about anti-Semitism and hate speech. I think this has been a tactic by governments, by universities as well, to try and shut down legitimate debate about what is going on in Palestine.

REEVE: What would you say to moderate liberals who are like, Yes, I think Israel went too far, the war went on too long, but you campus protesters, you did it the wrong way, you were too violent, you were too hateful, you went too far.

TAAL: In this country, we've seen people who wear keffiyehs being shot, we've seen a child being killed in Chicago by his neighbor.

So if one talks about political violence, where should we point the hands? Are we pointing the hands at people who say chants and slogans and maybe are a bit too loud in places?

REEVE: Is it on you as an activist to try to win over more moderate people so you have a critical mask to demand the government to do what you want?

TAAL: Absolutely. But I think if the images of patients attached to IVs burning alive doesn't move people, then I worry.

WAKED: I wouldn't say the protests were successful. People are still dead, homes have been ravaged. But I will say, now I'm watching students that would have otherwise never encountered this conversation be forced to think and talk about it.

REEVE: So what role do the universities have in potentially cooperating with Trump on this order?

MARY ANNE FRANKS, PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: If we're talking about a principled university that's actually worth its name, they should be refusing to even so much as indulge the suggestions of the executive order.

What Trump is trying to say is universities, all universities essentially need to help us. They need to report on these activities. And there's absolutely no reason for the universities to do that.

REEVE (voice-over): When asked about the executive order, Cornell said it continues to evaluate how the order will affect its community. As more concrete information becomes available, it'll provide guidance.

REEVE: Will the executive order affect your activism going forward?

WAKED: Well I might not be as quick to pick up a megaphone, I'll put it that way. But I'm still going to be writing, I'm still going to be teaching, I'm still going to be thinking through and encouraging folks to like have these conversations.

And so, Yes. But I guess it will affect it, at least a little bit.

REEVE (voice-over): Elle Reeve, CNN, Ithaca, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Still to come, Pope Francis is recovering from bronchitis at a hospital in Rome. We will have a live report on how he's doing. That's after a short break. Stay with us.

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[03:45:00]

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CHURCH: Pope Francis is in stable condition in hospital, according to the Vatican. We are seeing live pictures outside the Gemelli Hospital in Rome, where the pontiff is recuperating.

Doctors have been adjusting his treatment to deal with a complex respiratory infection. The Pope was admitted on Friday after having difficulty breathing. His treatment is ongoing and it's not yet known how long the pontiff will remain in hospital.

For the latest, I'm joined live now by Barbie Latza Nadeau, who's outside the hospital in Rome. So Barbie, what more are you learning about the Pope's infection and of course his current condition?

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN REPORTER: Yes, you know, we heard the last update last night and that he was in stable condition, but it's a very complicated clinical picture. Now, what that means, of course, all sorts of factors to be taken into consideration, including his age. He's 88 years old.

He has mobility issues, you know, largely uses a wheelchair to get around. He is missing part of his lung. He had an infection when he was a young man.

[03:50:09]

All of these things are very much complicate the situation for doctors and for his own recovery. We also know that they've changed course now three times when treating this respiratory infection.

And when he was out before he came into the hospital, he was on one course. When he got here on Friday, they tried an antibiotic treatment, we were told. And then yesterday they changed course once again to try to -- to try to get a hold and a handle on this.

We haven't seen any images of the Pope during his time here. And, you know, they're really not telling us how long he might stay in there. You know, it's a great concern, obviously, not just to Catholics, but to everyone.

A person this age, so desperately unwell, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes, absolutely. And as you mentioned, with just one lung, that makes it even more of a concern. And the Vatican is describing the Pope's infection as complex. What does that mean exactly and how much concern is there about just how sick the Pope might be?

LATZA NADEAU: Well, you know, I mean, one of the things, obviously, we don't know is we haven't heard directly from the Pope's doctors. But usually when an infection like this, the way they've described it, there are many, many factors involved in what's causing the infection.

So it could have been a viral infection and a bacterial infection. You know, one of the big factors, though, is this Pope just won't stop. He was trying to give a mass outdoors just a little bit over a week ago.

You know, it's not, you know, that cold in Rome, but it's certainly chilly for a man who's unwell. And he had bronchitis then. He had this lung infection or this respiratory infection at that time as well.

He had to stop giving his prayer and his speech and have asked someone else to continue for him. You know, he's had a difficult time breathing, a difficult time speaking. But we have not heard directly from his doctors yet.

We don't know if that's something that we can expect. The Vatican's, you know, very, very cautious in giving their information out there. It's very, very succinct, curated, one might say, in terms of what they're telling everyone not to get people to be over worried, I suppose.

But yet at the same time, we don't necessarily have all the available information. Rosemary.

CHURCH: Of course, and we're all wishing for a speedy recovery. Barbie Latza Nadeau, many thanks for joining us. I appreciate it.

And "CNN Newsroom" continues after a short break.

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CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone.

The United Nations is seeking $6 billion for Sudan this year to ease what's being described as the world's worst ever hunger crisis.

[03:55:01]

It comes weeks after the U.S. accused the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces of committing genocide in its 22 month war with Sudan's army.

The U.N. says a fifth of Sudan's population has been displaced and half the population is experiencing severe hunger. That's only expected to get worse. The U.N. is launching the appeal to donors at a time when the world's aid budgets are being increasingly squeezed.

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TOM FLETCHER, U.N. UNDER-SECRETARY-GENERAL FOR HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS: Because this is a humanitarian crisis that is truly unprecedented in its scale and gravity, and it demands a response unprecedented in scale and intent. It's a crisis that is increasingly crossing Sudan's borders, threatening to destabilize neighbors in ways that risk being felt for generations to come.

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CHURCH: The money would help support nearly 21 million people in Sudan.

Well, the president of Mexico is threatening to sue Google. The warning comes after Google changed maps shown to U.S.-based users last week. The label in Mexico reads Gulf of Mexico, but in the U.S. it now reads Gulf of America, following President Trump's executive order to rename it.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world sees both names displayed. President Claudia Sheinbaum stated on Monday that Google's new label is simply incorrect.

She argues Trump's decree to rename the Gulf is not applicable to the entire body of water. Rather, it should only cover the continental shelf under U.S. control, which extends just 22 nautical miles off the U.S. coast.

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CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): So Google is wrong. Then they responded to our letters and the foreign minister answered no, that they are wrong, that you cannot call the entire Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. The decree was given again and they were told what the international norms are. So if they keep insisting we are considering a lawsuit.

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CHURCH: At least 12 people have died in the U.S. state of Kentucky after a coast-to-coast winter storm unleashed torrential flooding and severe winds. That is according to the state's governor.

And now another winter storm is taking shape and is expected to target other recently flooded states like Tennessee, Virginia and West Virginia. Meanwhile, temperatures are plunging across the north central U.S. More than 270 cold records are expected this week across at least 27 states.

I want to thank you so much for spending part of your day with me. I'm Rosemary Church. "CNN Newsroom" continues next with Christina Macfarlane.

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