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Israel to Begin Negotiations for Phase Two of the Ceasefire Deal; Pope Francis has Found a Double Pneumonia in His Lungs in a Test; New Video Shows the Actual Crash Landing and Rollover of a Delta Jet; ASAP Rocky Found Not Guilty for Felony Assault. Aired 3-3:45a ET

Aired February 19, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead, Donald Trump takes aims squarely at Ukraine, just hours after U.S. and Russian officials hold high-level face-to-face talks.

Hamas is set to release more Israeli hostages this weekend, but before that, a final journey home for some of the youngest victims.

And new video shows the moment a Delta Airlines flight crash lands and flips in Toronto.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Thanks for joining us.

France is getting ready to hold another meeting later today on finding a path forward for Ukraine. This comes as the U.S. president falsely claims Ukraine started the conflict that's killed thousands of its own people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it's going very well.

But today I heard, oh, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: There's no question, of course, that Russia was behind the invasion nearly three years ago. And the meeting between U.S. and Russian officials in Saudi Arabia reflect a stunning reversal in U.S. policy. The two countries did not include Ukraine in their high-level talks.

European and NATO leaders were also left out.

Ukraine's president has been criticizing the Riyadh meeting and has now postponed his own trip to Saudi Arabia. Volodymyr Zelenskyy says his government won't be honoring any agreements that happen without Ukraine's participation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Russia attacked Ukraine and we had no choice but to take up arms and defend ourselves. And there was no diplomacy because Russia attacked.

Attacked Ukraine at night and Ukrainians took up arms and started to defend their country without the help of any country in the world. That's how it was. If we didn't go for all these ultimatums at the most difficult moment, why do we have the feeling that Ukraine will do it now?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: After the Riyadh talks, the U.S. Secretary of State said concessions will have to be made by all sides to end the conflict. But it's not clear what, if anything, Russia will give up.

And just a short while ago, the Trump administration's envoy for Russia and Ukraine arrived in Kyiv. President Zelenskyy says he would like Keith Kellogg to visit the front lines.

And our Paula Hancocks joins us now from Abu Dhabi. Good to see you, Paula. So, what have been the various reactions from Europe and Ukraine to Tuesday's developments?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Rosemary, this has certainly struck fresh fear into many European leaders' hearts.

The fact that this meeting was going ahead without Ukraine, without Europe being part of it, was of great concern to those leaders. And they were very vocal about that.

But then, of course, on top of that, you do have the U.S. President Donald Trump blaming Ukraine for the war starting three years ago, which, of course, is false.

So, there have been great concerns, especially when you consider the last week of diplomatic turmoil with speeches by the U.S. Defense Secretary, by the U.S. Vice President, that has concerned Europe as well and questioned the U.S. role going forward in Europe.

Now, what we did see after the meeting, for example, in Riyadh on Tuesday was the U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio did make a phone call to some of the foreign ministers in Europe to brief them on what had happened and presumably to try and allay some of the fears.

Now, we will see in reaction going forward this Wednesday whether or not that had the desired impact. But there are certainly concerns.

[03:04:43]

And this has been highlighted by the fact that European leaders themselves are having their own meetings, that there was this emergency meeting called by the French President on Monday, where leaders discussed not just how they could try and help secure peace between Russia and Ukraine, but also how to deal with the fact that the U.S. seems to be pulling out of its significant role in Europe, or at least from what we have been hearing from Trump administration officials.

So, there's no doubt that there is concern. What we have just seen, though, in the last hour or so, or the last few minutes, in fact, is Keith Kellogg, and this is Trump administration's envoy for the Russia-Ukraine conflict arriving in Kyiv. He will be speaking with President Zelenskyy.

And he was asked by our CNN team on the ground what exactly his message is. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEITH KELLOGG, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY FOR RUSSIA AND UKRAINE: We understand the need for security guarantees. It's very clear to us the importance of sovereignty of this nation and the defense of this nation as well. And part of my mission is to sit and listen and say, okay, what are your concerns, where are we at, so we can go back to the United States, talk to President Trump and with Secretary Rubio and the rest of the team and just ensure that we get this one right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANCOCKS: And in the short term, we also know that there will be further talks among European leaders discussing all of this. Rosemary?

CHURCH: And Paula, everyone's talking about concessions from both sides, but we're only hearing about what concessions Ukraine will need to make. Have we heard anything about what Russia might be asked to give up?

HANCOCKS: No specifics at this point, Rosemary. In fact, what we heard from the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, was that the conversation was very useful. We not only listened, but also heard each other, saying that the two sides actually agreed to take each other's interests into account.

Now, of course, what this historic meeting did was to end Russia's isolation. So in itself, it is considered a victory for Moscow and for President Putin.

So there are, of course, concerns about what may have been agreed on Ukraine's behalf. We've heard very strongly from President Zelenskyy that he will not accept concessions for Ukraine that have not had Ukraine as part of those talks, saying you cannot agree on Ukraine's future without Ukraine's participation. So certainly there are concerns as well when you hear the U.S.

President Donald Trump appearing to parrot some of President Putin's lines and false lines in cases. For example, saying that the war was started by Ukraine, which he was not. Also calling for elections in Ukraine, potentially trying to sideline President Zelenskyy.

Now, President Trump appeared to be aware of the criticism that he has been parroting President Putin, saying in that statement he gave at Mar-a-Lago that these were his words and this is what he believed, not what Russia had told him.

So there are great concerns that what has been discussed so far benefits Russia, that the Secretary of State has spoken about there will have to be concessions made, there will be discussions on territory, but at this point it's not clear what exactly Russia would be giving up in these discussions. Rosemary.

CHURCH: Paula Hancocks joining us live from Abu Dhabi with that report. Many thanks.

Well, now to Berlin and Alexander Baunov, he is a visiting fellow at European University and a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Appreciate you being with us.

ALEXANDER BAUNOV, VISITING FELLOW, EUROPEAN UNIVERSITY AND SR. FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Thank you, Rosemary, for inviting me.

CHURCH: So the world appears to be at a crossroads with the leader of the free world, U.S. President Donald Trump, falsely accusing Ukraine of starting the war and eager to side with Russia's President Putin at a time when the two nations are holding talks to end the conflict in Ukraine without any representation from that war-torn nation or from Europe. What does all this signal to you?

BAUNOV: Well, it depends on, for myself, it's clear injustice because when Vice President Vance criticized Europe for the lack of freedom of speech, it was exactly the anniversary, one year since the Russia's most well-known opposition leader Alexei Navalny was killed in the prison exactly for the speech freedom. So without any mention of this how we can discuss the -- well -- the freedom of speech.

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Then, of course, the people who were anti-war, anti-dictatorial in Russia are embarrassed, disappointed, shocked, and demotivated because many of them risked their freedom, their property, the ability to see their families and friends and even their lives, as I mentioned with the case of Navalny.

He's not the only one. We have people like LGBT people killed in Russian prisons now for being exactly. And now it's like that doesn't matter anything. It doesn't have any meaning.

We used to believe that U.S. are representing some -- you know -- some values. And for this category of people, of course, America is not great anymore. Then if you go to the Russian elite and the Russian majority, passive majority is another question.

CHURCH: Well, so Donald Trump says he thinks he has the power to end the war in Ukraine, but appears to favor Russia in that process. What will all this likely mean for Ukraine and for President Zelenskyy, who has been shut out of any negotiations so far?

BAUNOV: Well, I started about describing the Russian mood, the Russian, at least, well, the Russian mood I know and I represent. Exactly not because I am, I'm feeling entitled to speak about what Ukrainians are feeling.

But again, from the anti-war parts of Russian, which is not, it's not maybe a majority, but it's a large group of people. It's an active, politically active group of people.

And we are talking about millions. It's very unfair. I mean, Ukraine was called to sacrifice somehow itself for supporting the shared Western values, for fighting for these values.

And that now it's accused of starting the war, which is obviously not corresponding, not matching the facts. And you know that in Russia, if I were in Russia, I would be already prosecuted criminally for the very fact of saying that two and two are four, for saying that war is war and for saying that Russia invaded Ukraine.

Because if you remember this famous phrase of Lavrov in 2022, when asked by journalists, he told Russia didn't, Russia hasn't invaded Ukraine, which was totally, in total, absolute, obvious contradiction to the facts.

CHURCH: Right.

BAUNOV: But this is an official tradition. Russia didn't invade Ukraine. So it's totally unjust for you from our point of view, I mean, anti-war, anti-dictatorial Russian to see how Ukraine is asked to pay enormous sums for this aid.

I'm saying this about the fact that Ukrainians were not always kind to anti-war Russians. And then again, I say that if you are talking about Russia majority -- Russian majority wants this, I mean, the war to end as soon as possible, regardless of the, well, how fair and just this end of the war would be.

CHURCH: All right.

BAUNOV: And it's partly shared by even anti-Putin Russia, because they see that war is a terrible thing for Ukraine, first of all.

CHURCH: Indeed. Alexander Baunov, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

Well, U.S. President Donald Trump and Elon Musk sat for a joint interview with Fox News, where they praised each other with help from host and Trump sycophant, Sean Hannity. This comes as many Americans fear Musk and his DOGE team are gutting critical federal agencies without regard for safety or privacy. Mr. Trump is refusing to clarify what Elon Musk's official government

role is. On Tuesday, he said the billionaire could be called an employee, a consultant, quote, "whatever you want, confusing matters further."

The Trump administration in recent court filings said Musk is not an employee or administrator of the DOGE team, but a Trump adviser working as a special government employee. In the Fox interview, Musk says that he sees himself and DOGE as a presidential enforcer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, TRUMP PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: One of the biggest functions of the DOGE team is just making sure that the presidential executive orders are actually carried out. And this is, I just want to point out, this is a very important thing because the president is the elected representative of the people. So he's representing the will of the people.

[03:15:02]

And if the bureaucracy is fighting the will of the people and preventing the president from implementing what the people want, then what we live in is a bureaucracy and not a democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: The interview aired hours after a U.S. federal judge ruled against a lawsuit seeking to block Musk and DOGE from accessing federal data systems.

Well still to come, concerning new medical test results for Pope Francis as he remains in hospital. We'll have a live update from Rome after the break.

Plus, Hamas will release another group of hostages to Israel. Why this time is different and comes with a somber reminder of the lives lost in the conflict. That's just ahead.

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[03:20:07]

CHURCH: Hamas says it will release the dead bodies of four Israeli hostages on Thursday and six living hostages on Saturday.

The Hostages and Missing Families Forum named all six of the living hostages, including two held in Gaza since 2014 and 2015, respectively. We're also learning more about the four deceased hostages. They include Kfir and Ariel Bibas, who were just nine months and four years old when they were kidnapped by Hamas in 2023.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is following the story for us from London. She joins us now live. So Salma, what kind of reactions have been seen to news that Hamas plans to return the Bibas children's bodies on Thursday? SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's very sad and heartbreaking

news that I'm sure Israeli society is processing and having to process very quickly because this is supposed to take place tomorrow, Thursday.

And I say all of Israeli society because these two children really became the faces, the most prominent faces of the call for hostages to be released, of the call to bring the hostages home. As you mentioned, nine months old and four years old when they were taken.

There was actually footage, video that was released of their kidnapping with their mother just in tears as these Hamas operatives took her and her family into Gaza.

The father of these two children as well, Yarden, was also kidnapped. Now, we had heard from Hamas, from a statement from Hamas some time ago that the two children were killed. Hamas had blamed an Israeli airstrike for their death.

And in a very cruel twist, Hamas had the father, Yarden, actually go on camera and blame Israel for the death of his family members. The two children were killed alongside their mother. Again, that's according to Hamas' statement. But Israeli officials have not confirmed their death so far.

So there's still many details about their last days, their time in Gaza, their last moments that I'm sure will become clearer tomorrow. But you can expect also that their father, who was released earlier this month, will be there to receive those bodies in some way.

But this is absolutely going to be an extremely dark day for Israel as they receive these bodies tomorrow. There is, of course, the bittersweet optimism that diplomacy has worked in this case, in the sense that you have six hostages now being released on Saturday rather than the expected three.

These four bodies being released as well, of course, this week, indications that diplomats are going to point to, to say, look, talks are working, especially in the face of a President Trump who is pulling away focus, to say the least, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And Salma, this is, of course, all happening as phase two of negotiations are expected to start soon. What more do we know about where things stand with those talks?

ABDELAZIZ: Yes. So this statement from Hamas yesterday about the release of these four dead hostages and the six living ones on Saturday, that statement came and coincided with Israeli officials confirming that they will get involved in phase two discussions, according to the country's foreign minister.

Negotiations could begin as early as this week. And he did commit to reaching some sort of truce or some sort of agreement before the 42nd day, which is what's stipulated in this agreement.

So signs of progress already. Prime Minister Netanyahu had instructed some of his diplomats to head to Cairo earlier this week to also continue those negotiations.

You have to remember Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in the United Arab Emirates today. He will be speaking alongside Arab leaders as well to try to find a future solution to Gaza. But you have to remember that over all of this, of course, is President Trump's proposal, if you will, to own Gaza.

Meanwhile, it seems that diplomats and negotiators are just trying to continue their track, continue the talks as stipulated in phase one of this deal.

Just a reminder to everybody, this is supposed to be a three-phase truce, a three-phase agreement. We're in the first phase of it, approaching the final weeks of it, which should see dozens of hostages, some 33 hostages exchanged for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.

But it's phase two and phase three where things get really complicated, Rosemary, because it talks about the political future of Gaza, who rules Gaza, which of course for Israel, Hamas ruling Gaza is a red line. And it also stipulates how and what presence Israel may have in Gaza.

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So highly controversial topics, highly difficult topics to find and bridge agreements on, but signs of progress, again, with Israel saying that it will engage in phase two talks.

CHURCH: All right. Our thanks to Salma Abdelaziz, who brings that live report from London.

Well, now, to the health of Pope Francis, who has been in hospital in Rome since last week. In just the last hour, the Vatican said the 88- year-old pontiff had a quiet night and has eaten breakfast. Now that update coming one day after tests showed the Pope has pneumonia in both of his lungs.

So for the latest, I'm joined now by Barbie Latza Nadeau. She is in Rome. So Barbie, what more are you learning about the Pope's condition?

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN REPORTER: Yes, you know, we're expecting the spokesperson for the Vatican press office to be giving an update on the health a little bit more detail here in the next half an hour or so.

But you know, we heard on the Telegram channel, the Vatican's Telegram channel, that he had a peaceful night and that he woke up and ate breakfast this morning. Of course, that's not a lot of detail.

And it leaves a lot of questions, especially after the news we got yesterday at the health bulletin last night, actually, that he has pneumonia, bilateral pneumonia in both lungs.

Now, it's worth remembering, of course, that one of those lungs is just a partial lung. He had some of that removed when he was just 19 years old due to an infection.

And so, you know, there's so many questions right now about his recovery, about the treatment he's under. And then what happens in terms of his ability to carry on? You know, this is going to be very, very hard to come back from.

He's 88 years old. He has mobility issues. And then this sort of, very, very difficult type of pneumonia that he's fighting leave a lot of questions for a lot of people in terms of what happens, even if he does make it through this very difficult illness that he's suffering right now, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And of course, one of those questions, while the Pope remains in hospital, what is happening back at the Vatican?

LATZA NADEAU: Yes, you know, the Vatican press office would have us believe that he's still in charge. He's answering some of his emails. He's still, you know, conducting some business of the church.

But of course, the Vatican is a fine-oiled machine and there are layers and layers and layers of bureaucracy. So there are lots of things going on. There are people who can take over and can make decisions, can deliver the prayers of the Jubilee, that's a very important year for the Catholic Church.

All of those things, you know, sort of kick in when the Pope is unwell. But it's sort of the bigger picture that people are really looking at next, that, you know, how sick is he and how long, if he recovers, how long will the recovery take for him to get back on his feet if he can.

And it's worth remembering as well that, and we reported this a couple of years ago, that the Pope did sign a letter of resignation should he become incapacitated or should he become too ill.

So, of course, a lot of Vatican watchers are wondering if that is going to be something that it's taken into consideration if he does recover from this, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes, and we're certainly wishing for a speedy recovery. Barbie Nadeau Latza, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it.

Well, a fiery crash landing at Toronto's International Airport, captured from multiple angles in new video. Plus, passengers dangling from their seats in the overturned plane.

We'll have all those details after a short break. Stay with us.

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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: A major runway at Toronto International Airport is expected to remain closed until Thursday as investigators try to determine what caused a passenger plane to crash land.

New video shows the moment after the plane's wing broke off and the aircraft rolled over. Some passengers can be seen dangling upside down in their seats, strapped in by their seatbelts, while others begin climbing out.

The crash landing was caught on camera by the pilot of another plane on a nearby runway. Everyone on board the plane survived and some are recounting the frightening ordeal.

CNN's Jason Carroll reports from Toronto.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New video capturing the shocking moment a Delta commuter jet crash landed and flipped, leaving passengers strapped in their seats hanging upside down Monday at Toronto's Pearson Airport.

DEBORAH FLINT, PRESIDENT AND CEO, GREATER TORONTO AIRPORTS AUTHORITY: The crew of Delta Flight 4819 heroically led passengers to safety. I thank each and every one of these heroes.

CARROLL (voice-over): Those heroes swiftly and efficiently evacuated all 76 passengers off the aircraft after it crashed. As they crawled one by one out of the plane, passengers helped each other along the way.

PETE CARLSON, PASSENGER: You could see kind of row by row or area by area, people were checking one another out, making decisions about whether we would help one another with their straps or if by doing that would they be landing on somebody else.

CARROLL (voice-over): One passenger told out front that all seemed normal as the aircraft was on its final descent, but then suddenly a hard landing. The new video filmed from another plane on the tarmac captures the jet erupting in flames as it skids down the runway and flips over.

JOHN NELSON, PASSENGER: When we hit, it was just a super hard light, like I hit the ground and the plane went sideways. And I believe we skidded like on our side and then flipped over on our back where we ended up. There was like a big fireball.

[03:35:02]

PETE KOUKOV, PASSENGER: There was no like real indication of anything. And then, yes, we hit the ground and we were sideways and then we were upside down, hanging like that.

CARROLL (voice-over): In the few days leading up to the crash, Toronto received more snow than it had the entire previous winter. But officials say it's too early to answer if that was a factor in the crash.

FLINT: This would not be a time for us to have theory or to speculate on what caused the crash.

CARROLL (voice-over): Canadian officials say 21 people on board were injured, none were life threatening. And on Tuesday afternoon, officials said only two remained in the hospital.

The incident comes as the aviation industry is still reeling from recent accidents involving an American Airlines commuter jet and a military chopper near Washington, D.C., a medevac jet in Philadelphia, and a Bering Air flight near Nome, Alaska.

Passengers on board flight 4819 say it's remarkable everyone survived.

P. CARLSON: I think the most powerful part of today was there was just people, no countries, no nothing. It was just people together helping each other.

CARROLL: The plane is still out there on the runway behind me, still in the same position where it crashed. Investigators have been on board. They have retrieved the cockpit voice recorder as well as the flight data recorder.

But even with all of that potential information in their hands, it's still going to be some time before they come up with an exact cause of this crash.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Toronto.

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CHURCH: You're watching "CNN Newsroom." Coming up, charges against Brazil's former president, Jair Bolsonaro, accused of plotting a coup after losing the presidency. Back in just a moment.

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CHURCH: Brazil's former president, Jair Bolsonaro, has been charged in connection with an alleged coup following the 2022 election. That's according to court documents filed at the Supreme Court on Tuesday.

Prosecutors allege the plot began in 2021 with an effort to undermine public trust in electronic voting machines. They also claim Bolsonaro approved a plan to carry out the coup, which they say included the death of the newly elected president.

Bolsonaro's supporters stormed and vandalized three government buildings in Brazil's capital on January 8, 2023. Prosecutors say this was the last attempt to overturn the election. 33 others also face charges. Bolsonaro denies any wrongdoing.

A California jury has found rapper ASAP Rocky not guilty in his felony assault trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant, Rakim Mayers, not guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Screams, as you heard, erupted as Rocky moves to the back of the courtroom to hug his longtime partner, singer Rihanna, the mother of his two children.

Rocky, whose legal name is Mayers, was accused of assault with a semi- automatic firearm during a 2021 shooting incident with a former friend in Los Angeles. His attorneys argued the weapon was a prop gun that fired blanks borrowed from a music video set. They said Rocky carried it for security.

I want to thank you so much for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. Have yourselves a wonderful day. "Marketplace Europe" is next, then "CNN Newsroom" continues in 15 minutes with Christina McFarlane.

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