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CNN International: Trump Calls Zelenskyy a "Dictator"; Some Republicans Push Back on Trump's Ukraine Claims; Europe Scrambles for United Response on Ukraine; Pope Francis Showing Slight Improvement; Bolsonaro Charged with Alleged Coup Plot; Ukrainian Lawmaker React on Trump's Comments; Alef Tests Flying Car. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired February 19, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: -- being very clear that that's not possible in his intervention.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Christopher Lamb in Rome, thank you so much. A big programming note, starting March 3rd, that's a week from this Monday, The Lead is on the move. Look for the show in our new time slot, 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. Eastern, every weekday here on CNN.
The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer, right next door in a place I like to call The Situation Room. I'll see you tomorrow.
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max, I'm Lynda Kinkade.
Just ahead, Donald Trump calls the Ukrainian president a dictator after Zelenskyy said Trump was repeating Russian disinformation. The Vatican says Pope Francis is showing a slight improvement as he struggles with double pneumonia. And a flying future? The company testing its flying car in an urban environment for the first time.
We begin with U.S. President Donald Trump's extraordinary new attack on the Ukrainian President. One day after forcibly accusing Ukraine of starting the war with Russia, the U.S. president calling President Zelenskyy, quote, "a dictator without elections."
In a lengthy social media post, a reference to the fact that Ukraine has been forced to postpone elections due to the ongoing conflict, Mr. Trump saying, quote, "Zelenskyy better move fast or he is not going to have a country left."
In the meantime, we are successfully negotiating an end to the war with Russia. The post coming after Mr. Zelenskyy accused President Trump of parroting Russian propaganda, saying he lives in a, quote, "disinformation space" created by Moscow.
Well, this back and forth between the two leaders is being viewed with shock and dismay in both Ukraine and Europe, where leaders met in a virtual summit Wednesday to discuss security issues. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz calling President Trump's new comments, quote, "wrong and dangerous."
Mr. Trump also getting blowback from some fellow Republicans, including Senate Majority Leader John Thune, who said Wednesday that there is, quote, "no question that Russia is the aggressor." Republican Senator John Kennedy also saying Ukraine is the undisputed victim in the ongoing war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): The White House said that Ukraine started the war. I disagree. I think Vladimir Putin started the war. I also believe through bitter experience that Vladimir Putin is a gangster. He's a gangster with a black heart. He makes Jeffrey Dahmer look like Mother Teresa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, President Zelenskyy says he'll meet with the U.S. special envoy to Ukraine and Russia on Thursday. He says he hopes for constructive work with the United States while also cautioning the U.S. on the diplomatic path ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I would like Trump's team to be more truthful. All of this definitely doesn't affect Ukraine in a positive way. They are letting Putin out of isolation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Mr. Zelenskyy says the world faces a choice to be, quote, "with Putin or with peace." Our Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv with more on Wednesday's developments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was the day it was all meant to get back on track. President Trump's envoy, Keith Kellogg, coming to town to listen.
KEITH KELLOGG, U.S. RUSSIA-UKRAINE ENVOY: We understand the need for security guarantees.
WALSH (voice-over): But he was walking into a storm. Hours earlier, Trump falsely said Ukraine started the war.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.
WALSH (voice-over): And he falsely stated Zelenskyy had only 4 percent approval rating. Basically, Kremlin talking points at which Zelenskyy hit back.
ZELENSKYY (through translator): Unfortunately, President Trump, I have great respect for him as a leader of a nation that we have great respect for, the American people who always support us, unfortunately lives in this disinformation space.
WALSH (voice-over): Trump retorted with extraordinary words, calling Zelenskyy a dictator, refusing to hold elections, falsely repeating half of USAID had gone, quote, "missing," and saying Zelenskyy wanted the gravy train to keep going and had better move fast if he wanted a country left.
Russia advancing still both on the frontline and on the diplomatic arena with Trump's top officials in Saudi Arabia. Imagine hearing today's outburst from your main backer while fighting on the frontlines, almost ripping up the U.S.-Ukraine relationship and making it harder still to answer the question of what peace deal works for Ukraine.
WALSH: Mr. President, we've heard the idea of security guarantees again and again from the Americans, but they don't want to put troops on the grounds, they don't want to put you in part of NATO. How would security guarantees potentially look given those restraints? Can you explain what would work?
[18:05:00]
ZELENSKYY: What will work? I think NATO will work really, but I --
WALSH: But they won't let you win.
ZELENSKYY: Yes, yes. Yes, it's true. It's true. The strongest -- but when they said, for example, no boots on the ground, you know, but they have ships, but they have air defense. They really have it. America, they have it. They have air defense. OK. Can we have 20 systems of petrol (ph)? It's enough.
WALSH (voice-over): We heard ourselves how the threat is over Kyiv most nights when the Russian drones come.
WALSH: Let me just pause and let you hear that.
WALSH (voice-over): This is why a peace deal must be real and urgent.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, the U.S. vice president has also weighed in on the war of words between Trump and Zelenskyy. J. D. Vance says the Ukrainian president's criticism of Trump is counterproductive and, quote, "disgraceful."
Well, Larry Sabato joins me now. He is the director of the University of Virginia's Center for Politics and the editor of "A Return to Normalcy?: The 2020 Election that Almost Broke America." Good to see you, Larry.
LARRY SABATO, CENTER FOR POLITICS DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA AND EDITOR, "RETURN TO NORMALCY?": Nice to see you too, Lynda. KINKADE: So, Trump said Ukraine started the war. He called Zelenskyy a dictator. He accused him of not wanting peace or elections. Has the U.S. president fallen for Russian propaganda?
SABATO: Well, he always has. He's been very, very close to Russia during his first term, not just now in the beginning of the second term. He either believes it or he wants to believe it. And it's pretty clear that what he said about Zelenskyy has backfired, even in his own party.
For the first time today, some senior Republicans disputed Trump in harsh terms. His former vice president, Mike Pence, accused him of lying and insisted that he tell the truth and support Zelenskyy. So, I would say on the whole that Trump has made the situation much worse for himself. Of course, he's also made it much worse for Zelenskyy and for Europe.
KINKADE: Yes, it was quite a contrast, wasn't it? Looking at what Trump's current vice president, J. D. Vance, had to say about Zelenskyy and, his words, on Trump basically saying, don't bad mouth Trump or it could backfire, which is quite a contrast to what the former vice president, Mike Pence, said who called out Trump's lie online. He said, Mr. President, Ukraine did not start this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion claiming hundreds of thousands of lives. The road to peace must be built on the truth.
And he also posted a link there to a Fox News article about that truth, that fact. What do you make of that distinction?
SABATO: Well, Vance doesn't want to end up like Pence. He knows that his entire future depends upon Trump supporting him in 2028, if he decides to run for president, which is almost certain. So, he doesn't want to end up like Pence.
At the same time, I think he has to be careful because he's going to be caught in the same web that Trump is, particularly if things don't turn out well. And it's no coincidence, I think. And in the past 24 hours, three very good surveys, including Gallup, have shown Trump's approval ratings dropping into the mid-40s and his disapprovals rising close to 50 or above 50. We're only a month into his presidency.
KINKADE: And big picture, Larry, can you describe, historically speaking, what we're seeing in terms of this U.S. pivot towards Russia and how that differs from what we've seen from U.S. presidents in the past?
SABATO: Well, it's unprecedented. I grew up in the '50s and '60s and '70s and '80s when both parties said that Russia or the Soviet Union was the enemy, as Ronald Reagan, the predecessor to Donald Trump and the Republican Party, that Trump himself likes to cite, Ronald Reagan said the Soviet union is the evil empire.
Well, this is pretty much like the Soviet Union once was, but now, apparently, according to Trump, it's a bed of roses.
KINKADE: Exactly. Larry Sabato, always much to discuss. Good to have you with us. Thanks so much.
SABATO: Thanks a lot.
KINKADE: Well, we're going to stay on this topic. Russians in Moscow telling our correspondent, Fred Pleitgen, that they are heartened by the foreign relations between the U.S. and Russia, and that they also have a positive view on President Trump. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (through translator): Do you think Trump understands Russia better than Biden?
[18:10:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, of course. He already maintained good contact with President Putin during his first term. And he said that they had good relations. Judging by the statements made, you know, I think the world is changing.
PLEITGEN: Do you like Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody, I think, like his new relations with Russia. Because it was bad that two big nations was out of any embassy relations even. And now, I think the thing's going to be better.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I think Trump isn't a bad president. At least he thinks about his own country. And we have a president thinking about Russia. So, that's also good news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, for more, Stephen Sestanovich joins me now. He's a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations for Russia and Eurasian Studies. He's also a professor emeritus at the Columbia University School of International and Public Affairs. Good to have you with us.
STEPHEN SESTANOVICH, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS FOR RUSSIAN AND EURASIA STUDIES AND PROFESSOR EMERITUS, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Pleasure.
KINKADE: So, Trump kickstarted this push for peace with a one-on-one call with Vladimir Putin a week ago. Then we saw this meeting between the top officials of U.S. and Russia, a meeting to discuss the future of Ukraine without Ukraine. And now, we're seeing Donald Trump calling Zelenskyy a dictator, saying that Ukraine started the war. Are you and your friends in Foreign Relations just baffled to hear Trump parroting Russian propaganda?
SESTANOVICH: Well, it's shocking to many people. What no one understands really is whether this is an example of incoherence, meaning he doesn't know what he's doing or coherence, he has some plan that he imagines will get him a result that he can call a success.
But, you know, it's always tough figuring out which it is with Trump. Right now, he's made some obvious, to most people, negotiating mistakes, giving Putin too much in advance without getting any concessions. And he's obviously walking into a meeting that he has to be prepared to say is not a success. No one knows what his aims are for that meeting. It's probably going to come soon and we don't know how it's being prepared.
KINKADE: And to your earlier point, Stephen, there are some that are suggesting or they're hoping that this is a negotiating tactic. The former British prime minister has said today that Trump's statements are not intended to be historically accurate, but to shock Europe into action. Do you believe that?
SESTANOVICH: It is true that the president does not mind shocking American allies. The question is, at what point he sort of puts -- pushes the alliance to the breaking point, undermining confidence in the United States.
You know, alliances are supposed to be built on consultation, common purpose, joint activities, common resource commitments, and Trump is sort of saying, those rules don't apply to me anymore. I want to deprioritize Europe. I want to look elsewhere. And Secretary of State Rubio said, you know, we're looking at all these incredible opportunities to partner with Russia, Europeans just don't understand what Trump officials mean by such things and how they can see it as productive to launch into such an enterprise without any coordination.
KINKADE: And, Stephen, Donald Trump is also blaming Europe for failing to bring about peace. What sort of coordinated response do you expect to see from Europe? Are they going to stand up and rise up to meet the moment?
SESTANOVICH: The Europeans have had some difficulty developing common programs on their own over the years. And certainly, this week, you've already had one summit of European leaders that produced virtually nothing. There's going to be -- you know, they're going to be more meetings. And the question is, are they going to be able to insert themselves in some way into Trump's calculations, or is he going to make clear that he regards them as kind of a burden and a nuisance and just, you know, people to inform afterwards as to what he and Putin have agreed.
KINKADE: We know that Donald Trump responds well to flattery and compliments, and it seemed like J. D. Vance, in criticizing Zelenskyy, was basically saying, you know, don't bad mouth Donald Trump. It's not going to work in your favor. How should Zelenskyy handle, moving forward, working with the Trump administration?
[18:15:00]
SESTANOVICH: Zelenskyy has a really difficult situation because obviously he has to maintain a kind of working relationship and some ongoing ability to communicate with the Trump administration. But he has other audiences. He has his own domestic audience. He wants to retain his credibility as a leader. He has the Europeans whom he wants to inspire to act effectively in his behalf. He has American politicians whom he wants to kind of encourage to speak up against what the president is doing. He wants to reach out to American media. He wants people to be watching your program to, you know, speak up against a policy that Zelenskyy wants them to see is counterproductive, bound to fail, bound to produce bad results for the United States.
KINKADE: Stephen Sestanovich, appreciate your perspective and analysis. Senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations of Russian and Eurasian Studies. Thanks so much for your time.
SESTANOVICH: A pleasure. Thanks.
KINKADE: Well, later in the show, I'm going to be joined by the Chair of the Ukrainian Parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee for more reaction to President Trump's comments and the prospects for peace. He'll join us live from Kyiv.
Well, still to come, a sign of improvement. We'll have the latest on the pope's health when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade. The Vatican says new blood tests show a slight improvement in Pope Francis' condition. After meeting with the pontiff, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni says he is alert and reactive. The 88-year-old was diagnosed with pneumonia in both lungs this week. He was initially hospitalized last Friday.
Well, for more, I want to welcome CNN medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is a professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University. Good to have you with us.
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST AND PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Thanks, Lynda.
KINKADE: So, the pope obviously was first admitted to hospital Friday with what was believed to be bronchitis. He now has pneumonia in both lungs. Talk to us about what this means in terms of multiple infections in his lungs.
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DR. REINER: Well, first of all for an organization, the Vatican, that is traditionally extraordinarily opaque over the last few days, they've given quite a bit of data to the public about the health of the pope, and what they've done is they painted a picture of, you know, a very ill 88-year-old man.
Well, we know as of yesterday, when they described the findings on his CAT scan is that he has pneumonia, which is infection of the lung tissue on both sides. We know this is occurring in the setting of structurally abnormal lungs because when he was a boy at age 11, he had what's called a partial pneumonectomy removal of part of his lung to treat an infection, you know, 75 years ago. So, he comes to this illness with certainly chronic lung disease. The disclosure that he has what has been described as a polymicrobial infection, meaning more than one infectious agent is not surprising. It appears that the pontiff has been -- his lung disease has been treated with steroids. That sets up a situation that makes more than one infectious agent likely. They described him as having what's called bronchiectasis, which are abnormal sort of FCI form dilated segments of his bronchial tubes, which allow secretions to basically linger and these kinds of, sort of, chronic secretary areas are a set up for infection.
So, what they're -- what the Vatican is telling us is that the pope has an established bilateral pneumonia in an 88-year-old man with multiple infectious organisms. So, you know, they're telling us that he sadly is quite ill right now.
KINKADE: Yes, he's very sick. And as you say, it is kind of remarkable to get so much information on the pope's health at this particular point. The Vatican did say, though, that blood tests show a slight improvement, particularly in the inflammatory markers. How much can you read into that?
DR. REINER: Really not much. And, you know, my guess is that what they're showing is perhaps that his white blood cell count is perhaps stable or maybe a little bit improved. But what happens is, you know, organizations, you know, like the Vatican or, you know, Buckingham Palace or, you know, the White House, it release as much information as they want to release.
So, you know, if they're releasing information, it's to tell us something. So, I don't gain a lot of optimism from this, just this one measure that markers of information might be a little bit better. That's not much of a change.
KINKADE: I mean, one thing that seemed to give certain, you know, people in the Catholic Church some hope was the readout from the Italian prime minister who visited the pope and said that he was alert, he was responsive, he was making jokes. Certainly, that seemed to be a positive sign.
DR. REINER: I agree. I think that's great. Particularly if he's able to converse. You know, what we haven't been told us some critical pieces of information such as what kind of oxygen is he receiving? You know, is he receiving oxygen via a face mask? Is he receiving oxygen through something less oppressive like just nasal cannula? How much oxygen is he receiving? Is he able to speak? Has he been able to eat? Or has he been out of bed? You know, these are the kinds of pieces of information that I think would give us a better sense for which direction the pontiff is moving.
The other thing I'll say is that recovery, you know, while again, I think quite uncertain at this time, can take and will take a very long time. And so, it takes a long time to recover. The older we are, the longer it takes. And even if one does recover and is able to be discharged from the hospitalization after a serious bilateral pneumonia like this, I tell my patients that typically recovery takes about three times as long as the index hospitalization. So, I think, you know, there's a lot of recovery and rehabilitation in store for the pope.
KINKADE: Dr. Jonathan Reiner, great to have you on the program to give us that insight. Thanks very much.
DR. REINER: Thank you, Lynda.
KINKADE: Well, Brazil's former president Jair Bolsonaro has been charged in connection with an alleged coup to overthrow the country's 2022 election. Prosecutors allege the plot involved efforts to undermine public trust in electronic voting machines. They also claim Bolsonaro approved a plan to kill the newly elected president.
[18:25:00]
Thirty-three others have also faced charges. Bolsonaro denies any wrongdoing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAIR BOLSONARO, FORMER BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Look at my face. What do you think? I have no concerns whatsoever about the accusations. Zero. Zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Stefano Pozzebon is following this story and joins us now live. So, Stefano, what happens now? How soon could he be arrested?
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, one thing that Bolsonaro seems not to be concerned, indeed, is the risk of being arrested. We understand from legal experts and sources down in Brazil and also from our friends at CNN Brazil, the local affiliates that we rely so much on, that he's not at immediate risk of being arrested.
The justices will do its course in Brazil. The trial may take months, although authorities will hope that this trial will end up in -- either in a conviction, in a found guilty or not. And perhaps with the sentencing before the commencement off next year's presidential campaign. But Bolsonaro is not at risk immediately of being arrested.
One thing that could change, however, is whether Bolsonaro is found trying to tamper with investigation, perhaps either threatening witnesses or trying to destroy some of the evidence or try to leave the country or escape. We know that his passport has been seized years ago to prevent him just to travel abroad and leave as the investigation was ongoing. And that's why, for example, Bolsonaro was not able to go to Washington for President Donald Trump's inauguration last month.
But we also know that Bolsonaro spent two nights at the Hungarian embassy last year at a moment where it seemed that justice was catching up with him in an apparent bid for asking political asylum to Hungary, which is, of course, ruled by Prime Minister Viktor Orban, which is also another populist conservatives that is very allied and aligned with the Bolsonaro around the world. So, that could be a rapid escalation. In all of these also, Lynda, as in any geopolitical story, we're reporting you this week, well, we need to consider the Trump factor. Of course, the fact that another populist conservative sits in the White House means that the implication are much different now that a very close ally of his is facing considerable and serious charges by the local justices.
If, for example, Bolsonaro was to be found asking for asylum at the U.S. embassy in Brazil and Trump granted him political asylum, well, these would be, of course, a major story. Right now, it doesn't seem like that's happening and it doesn't seem like that Bolsonaro is at risk of immediate arrest, and that's why it seems that his strategy for now is to kick the can down the road and perhaps trying to gather support and to rally his troop ahead of what comes ahead in next year, in the new presidential election in 2026.
KINKADE: Yes, exactly. We'll see how this plays out because some of his allies suggest that he could be on that presidential ballot. Stefano Pozzebon, good to have you on the story. Thank you.
Well, still ahead, we hear from a leading Ukrainian lawmaker as tensions flare between the U.S. and Ukrainian presidents. Stay with us. You're watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
KINKADE: Welcome back to CNN Newsroom. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Here are more international headlines we're watching today. Hamas is expected to release the bodies of four Israeli hostages Thursday, including the Bibas children and their mother. The family have become some of the most recognizable victims of the October 7th attacks. It will mark the first handover of dead hostages since the ceasefire deal went into effect last month.
A judge delays ruling on the Justice Department's motion to drop corruption charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. The judge says he needs more time to -- for a thorough consideration. Eight federal prosecutors have resigned since the Justice Department's request. Adams denies any wrongdoing.
The Trump administration is moving ahead with its plan to kill New York City's congestion pricing program. The plan went into effect last month, charging drivers $9 when entering Southern Manhattan during peak hours. The money helps fund public transit projects. The New York governor is promising legal action against the administration.
Well, let's return to our top story this hour. At least some Republicans are pushing back against President Donald Trump's false claims that Ukraine is to blame for the war with Russia.
In a post on social media, the U.S. president called Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a dictator and warned him that he better move fast or he won't have a country left. Senate Majority Leader John Thune and former Vice President Mike Pence are calling out the president for accusing Kyiv of starting the conflict. The war of words escalated after President Zelenskyy accused Mr. Trump of living in a disinformation space when it comes to Ukraine.
Well, one Ukrainian lawmaker is urging the importance of clear communication between Washington and Kyiv. Oleksandr Merezhko is chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee in Ukraine's parliament and joins us now from Kyiv. Thanks for your time.
OLEKSANDR MEREZHKO, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE CHAIR, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: Thank you for inviting me.
KINKADE: Of course. So, obviously I want to start with your reaction on Trump's comments. He called your democratically elected leader a dictator. He falsely claimed that Ukraine started the war. What's been the reaction in Ukraine?
MEREZHKO: Well, what really matters in our situation, because Ukraine right now is really in difficult situation. It's been three years of full-scale invasion, and you can imagine how hard it is to fight against huge, brutal Russian empire. And what really matters is to maintain good relations, friendly relations between our countries, because we cannot allow Putin to win. Any kind of statements which destroy relations between Ukraine and the United States are detrimental for both countries.
That's why I have always been in favor of direct contact between our presidents. I'm absolutely sure that having such meetings or summits they -- in a very easy way, they will clear the air, they will remove all obstacles, all misunderstandings. This is a crucial thing for our survival, and it's a crucial thing for the reputation of the United States as the leader of the free world.
KINKADE: Yes, clear communication is key. But is it demoralizing hearing those sort of statements by the U.S. president?
[18:35:00]
MEREZHKO: Well, I -- of course, Ukrainians don't agree with this because of a very simple reason, we cannot have elections during the war. It's against our constitution. It's against our legislation. But most importantly, our people are categorically against holding elections during the war because they will be the only winner, Putin. Putin is trying to push this narrative about elections during the war. He understands that it will have terrible consequences, divisive consequences, and it will undermine our country from within.
He failed to destroy us from outside, and that's why he's pushing this narrative, trying to destroy us from within. It's very dangerous. And we hope that our American friends understand what's really at stake here.
KINKADE: It was interesting hearing the U.S. president claiming that Zelenskyy's approval rating is only 4 percent despite the fact that the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology reported just in February that -- just earlier this month that 57 percent of Ukrainians said that they trust Zelenskyy, which is higher than the approval rating of Trump here in the U.S. Why would Trump parrot Russian propaganda?
MEREZHKO: Well, it's hard to say. Now, there can be several explanations. One of them might be that maybe someone is trying to misinform President Trump. It's -- we cannot rule out this possibility. But again, if Trump would come to Kyiv, he would see for himself and very good sign that Mr. Kellogg, General Kellogg has come to Kyiv tomorrow, he will have meeting with President Zelenskyy, and I hope he will convey the messages and firsthand information about what's going on.
Another explanation might be related to sort of political rhetoric, because President Trump is trying to deliver on his promise made on election trail about bringing peace to Ukraine. And maybe in this way, he's trying -- the addressee of these statements might be Putin because President Trump might be trying to sort of entice Putin to bring him to the table of negotiations. So -- but it's my subjective kind of hypothesis with regard to this situation.
KINKADE: As you mentioned, Trump's envoy to Ukraine and Russia is in Kyiv, and we'll have some pretty significant discussions tomorrow. What's the hope for those meetings, and do we know whether he will go to the frontlines, which is what Zelenskyy has suggested?
MEREZHKO: General Kellogg has been many times to Ukraine, to Kyiv, and you know, I have noticed one very interesting thing from my communication with American congressmen and senators, those of them who have visited Ukraine before, you don't have to preach to them, they are, so to speak, already converted. They understand perfectly well what's going on in Ukraine.
So, I believe that this is the key how, for example, to change opinion of Mr. Trump, of Mr. Elon Musk, for example. I don't know whether General Kellogg will go to the frontline, but he has seen it before, he has been before, and he understands perfectly well what's going on in Ukraine. And honestly, we treat him as our close friend.
KINKADE: And U.S. President Trump has suggested that the U.S. should have access to Ukraine's minerals in -- you know, in terms of leverage and negotiation going forward if Ukraine wants U.S. support. How is that being received in Ukraine?
MEREZHKO: Well, for me personally, it's a good sign. It would be much worse if President Trump would not be interested at all in Ukraine. But being interested in our strategic resources, he understands the importance and value of Ukraine in terms of geopolitics, in terms of geoeconomics. He understands that these resources, they're important for the free democratic world.
If Russia occupies these territories the chances are that they can end up in the hands not only of Russia, but also in the hands of such rival of the United States as China. But we agree and we want -- we welcome American investments and in development of our natural resources. We agree to do it on mutually beneficial basis.
And -- but at the same time, we understand that there is Ukrainian constitution, there is Ukrainian legal system, which regulates the process of development of strategic and mineral resources. But we are open for such mutually beneficial cooperation. It's important for the development of our economy.
[18:40:00]
But the thing is that we can talk seriously about this only after the end of war. Because in conditions which we have right now, when the war is raging on, it's difficult to develop mineral resources.
KINKADE: Oleksandr Merezhko, chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Ukrainian Parliament, we appreciate your time. Thanks so much and we wish you all the best.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. You're watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Well, you would be forgiven for thinking our next story is something out of science fiction rather than a daily news show, but it could be a breakthrough in the future of travel as we know it. Take a look at this. This is a flying car taking off for the first time ever in an urban environment. Alef Aeronautics is a company working to pioneer the flying road vehicles. It says the test was successful with no safety issues reported. Alef says the test took place on a closed off city road in an area where there are no bystanders.
Well, the car was also flown over a truck, as you can see here. Alef is likening the test to the Wright Brothers' famous first flight.
Well, joining me now is Jim Dukhovny, the CEO of Alef Aeronautics. Good to have you with us. This is certainly remarkable news. I'm so intrigued. You have carried out the first successful test flight. Congratulations. How does your flying car work?
JIM DUKHOVNY, CEO, ALEF AERONAUTICS: Thank you, Lynda. So, the flying car works as the car and as an aircraft. You take the car, you pretty much take the engine up front. You put four smaller agents in four wheels in this space, which is left, you put what is called DEP, distributed electric propulsion, which is propeller speed controller motor battery systems, which are independent. On top of the car, you make a mesh, something which allows the air to come through that's allows to the vertical takeoff. Also, size of the car served as the wings as -- they're in the shape and airfoil that allows for the efficient flight forward.
KINKADE: And so, obviously, like so many of us recall seeing flying cars in "Back to the Future." I just want to play a little bit of vision from that film.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:45:00]
KINKADE: So, is this our future? How soon will people be flying your cars?
DUKHOVNY: The funny coincidence is that car, which you just showed, flown into the October of 2015, about October of 2015 is when myself, Oleg, Konstantin, and Paul actually started Alef Aeronautics.
KINKADE: Wow. That is remarkable.
DUKHOVNY: It's just a coincident.
KINKADE: You really are the future. So, I understand you've already got over 3,000 pre-orders for this car. And obviously, we saw that successful test flight. This is an ultralight vehicle. How does it go? How does it handle strong winds? What sort of anti-collision technology is built in the car?
DUKHOVNY: Yes. So, the first part of the question is when -- so, remember, I said this to distribute the liquid propulsion, which means some propellers spin faster and some slower. So, that in milliseconds stabilizes your flight. There's also like elevons and other systems which have to help to stabilize during the wind.
It has a lot of safe -- so, innovation is not only it's a new type of aircraft, innovation is also in safety, in redundancy. In redundancy within the systems and between the systems. In the full ballistic parachute because it's so light, it can have actually the parachute which just deploys even at low altitudes and high altitudes.
So, there's innovation in aircraft safety in addition to the innovation aircraft itself. So, theoretically and on paper and probability wise and in practice, as we tested it for 10 years, it is actually the next level of safety of the aircraft.
KINKADE: Wow. And of course, it was the first vehicle of its kind to obtain this special airworthiness certificate from the FAA. What does that mean exactly?
DUKHOVNY: Sure. So, just to point out, it's a previous version of Model Zero. The one you should show this Model Zero ultra-light. There was a previous version called Model Zero, that received the FAA air (INAUDIBLE) certification. That means we can test for R&D. We can fly for research and development, and we could also fly for exhibition. Something we were doing.
That limits the -- what you can do with this, and it limits where you can do with this. But the significance of it, again, was the first time the car was actually given permission to very quickly take off and fly.
KINKADE: So, the price tag right now is $300,000 for the world's first two flying car. You've got over 3,000 pre-orders. How soon will people actually be flying this car? What are the next stages?
DUKHOVNY: Sure. So, the sentence which I usually say and people just hear very last word of the sentences goes like this. If everything goes right, we plan to start production of the first one by the end of '25 beginning of '26. Right now, we're on scale, but you have to read the whole sentence with all the asterisks, which comes before the last date because we don't want to over promise. But so far, that's definitely a target.
KINKADE: And so, what are the safety tests are going to be needed?
DUKHOVNY: Sure. So, this particular version, which you see is an ultra-light. So, which means it has limited range. There are a lot of -- like I mentioned, we've been doing it for 10 years. So, there's a lot of safety test going on and was next systems and everything. The long-term, it will need the full FAA type certification here in the United States and other types of certification outside the United States.
We actually plan to deploy first outside the United States because there's like legal infrastructure which allows us literally to fly this today commercially. And then works through the way of the full range without any limitations in the United States also.
KINKADE: So, who wants to buy this? Who's the target customer and how will they benefit from a flying car?
DUKHOVNY: So, as you correctly mentioned, the early adopters have to be high net worth individuals because the price of the car is big and this is because it costs us a lot to produce one, two, three cars and we also right now not efficient in producing this.
Once we get mass production, once we get factory efficient, once we get better at this, the price should drop eventually, again, it's not going to be in two, three, or four years, but eventually, the price of this car should drop below Ford Focus or Toyota Corolla because it is less complex. But to get there, we need volume and we need optimization of the manufacturing.
[18:50:00]
KINKADE: And just quickly, how soon will you be able to test this car with a passenger in the car?
DUKHOVNY: So, there is a pilot, when we call pilot and a passenger, it's kind of like a different terminology. But from -- you mean if we take a CNN anchor and we actually put you in the car?
KINKADE: Yes, I'll volunteer.
DUKHOVNY: This is pretty -- so, the reason we actually didn't allow anybody yet, and it was just our people in that video because we're still a startup. So, we still protect intellectual property. If we can figure out how to put you in the car and at the same time protect intellectual property, it can be next week.
KINKADE: Your secrets are safe with me. Jim Dukhovny, good to have you with us. CEO of Alef Aeronautics. Amazing invention and technology. Appreciate your time. Thanks so much.
DUKHOVNY: Thank you, Lynda. Thank you. KINKADE: Well, still to come, Real Madrid clashing with Manchester City for a spot in the Champions League round of 16. We are going to bring you the highlights next.
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KINKADE: Welcome back. Real Madrid advancing to round 16 after dominating Manchester City in the Champions League playoff. Kylian Mbappe, the standout player. Patrick Snell joins us now. So, Real Madrid dominated. Mbappe, of course, got a hat trick. What's it going to take to stop them?
PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Hi, Lynda. Yes, one very high powered and impressive defense. He was magnificent. Man City fans may want to look away now, just a heads up. But Real Madrid, they took a 3-2 first leg league into Wednesday night's clash with City.
To the Bernabeu we go, where the hosts hitting their stride early in this game. And no prizes for guessing who breaks the deadlock. That's a stunning finish from Kylian Mbappe, just four minutes on the clock. Beats the keeper. That finish, Lynda, oozing class and brilliance. As it turned out though, it was only just getting started. 33 minutes in, this is my personal favorite. Look at the lovely flowing move and then the final piece of the through the legs sublime skill from Mbappe through the legs of a defender and then into the corner for two-nil. City's defense left absolutely bamboozled.
Elite players always want a hat trick if they can, and this is just brilliant. Just picks his spot and then slides it right into the far corner across the keeper. That is the hat trick goal, 13 minutes from time, Mbappe departing to raucous applause. It's nights like these, Real wanted him for, it's nights like these he wanted to join a club that's trying to win the champions of Europe for a 16th time. Lynda, incredible scenes there.
KINKADE: Yes, really. And of course, a huge match in the English Premier League, right, with Liverpool dropping points.
SNELL: I know.
KINKADE: What can you tell us?
SNELL: Do we have a title race on our hands in England? It's getting exciting Aston Villa hosting leaders Liverpool Wednesday night at Villa Park in Birmingham. Villa gifting the Reds the lead. This is a horrible error.
[18:55:00]
I really do feel for Andres Garcia there, because it just plays Liverpool. And Mo Salah, the Egyptian superstar, is not going to miss from there. 1-nil. Liverpool. Credit Villa though, they took this game and not only did they get level there through their Belgian star Youri Tielemans, but then in first half stoppage, they take the lead. It's Ollie Watkins with a nice header into the corner of the net. Liverpool, at this point, 2-1 down, but credit to them, back they come, it's Trent Alexander Arnold for 2-all, and that is honors even.
But Liverpool do drop points, Lynda, and that gives a little bit of hope to second place Arsenal. Back to you.
KINKADE: I just love the celebrations after those goals.
SNELL: Oh, yes.
KINKADE: Amazing. Patrick Snell, as always, great to see you. Thank you. And thanks so much for your company today. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Stay with CNN, there's plenty more news coming up.
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