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Israeli Military Now Has Custody of Four Hostage Bodies; Rise of Far-Right Party as Germany Votes this Weekend; DOGE Claims Billions in Saving but Receipts Raise Questions; Vatican: Pope Tests Show Slight Improvement. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired February 20, 2025 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster. Here are some of today's top stories.

Donald Trump says he wants to resurrect a deal which would have required Ukraine to share rare earth minerals with the U.S. as payback for past wartime aid to Kyiv. Ukraine's president has pushed back and asked for security guarantees.

The U.S. president is also calling Volodymyr Zelenskyy a dictator and repeating Kremlin talking points. President Trump accused him of refusing to hold new elections in Ukraine even though elections can be pushed back whilst under martial law.

Earlier, President Zelenskyy said Mr. Trump is living in a, quote, disinformation space.

The Israeli military has now custody of the bodies of four Israeli hostages. Hamas says it handed over the bodies of Shiri Bibas and her two sons, Kfir and Ariel, and Oded Lifshitz earlier today. The four were taken by the militant group on October 7th, 2023, along with other family members who were returned alive. This is the first handover of deceased hostages since the ceasefire deal with Hamas went into effect in January.

Live now to Tel Aviv, Alon Pinkas is a former Israeli consul general in New York. Thank you for joining us, sir. What's the atmosphere like there today watching this very grim scene unfold?

ALON PINKAS, FORMER ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL IN NEW YORK: Well, very sad, Max. It is sad not only because these are four hostages that could have been saved.

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But because Shiri Bibas and her two little children became sort of a symbol of the entire hostage ordeal, and even though there were indications and rumors and signs that they were killed, apparently in an Israeli military attack, in late '23 or very early in 2024. Since no one knew for a fact, there was, you know, this glimmer of hope that, you know, every man is the world and every person means the world to his family. But those two children, people had a glimmer of hope that maybe the reports, maybe the rumors, maybe the indications are mistaken and they are alive. And today, it turned out that they are not. So in this respect, it is very gloomy.

People who think or are busy trying to anticipate the future are thinking beyond this exchange and into phase two, wherein the remaining hostages need to be released, those who are alive and those who are not. And there is huge doubt and skepticism that Mr. Netanyahu is going to go through with phase two.

FOSTER: So we've got something like 60 who are believed still to be held hostage. Is that correct?

PINKAS: Correct. Three hostages, live hostages, thankfully, will be released Saturday, 48 hours from now, roughly 48 hours from now. And that more or less ends the phase one, which leaves us with the 60 that you just mentioned, Max, yes.

FOSTER: And I was speaking to a family member of one of the hostages released recently. She was uncomfortable with the images that Hamas, you know, these handover images, saying they're playing to Hamas's propaganda. What's your view on that?

PINKAS: It's disgusting and abhorrent and inhumane, but you don't have to watch it. I avoided watching it because I knew exactly what it was going to look like. This is, you know, this is a cult of death.

This is transacting with bodies of civilians, of innocent civilians. From a Hamas point of view, they need to prove that A, they are standing, B that they are abiding by the agreement. So I understand the reason they have to make sure this is visible and that there is a visual that people can see. But turning it into a ceremony is truly, truly abhorrent.

FOSTER: Yes, they are very difficult images, particularly the ones from today to watch. As you say, coming to the end of phase one, phase two was always going to be the big challenge, wasn't it? And in terms of internal politics for Netanyahu as well, you know, what's the talk there about how possible, you know, even starting phase two is going to be?

PINKAS: I don't think, Max, anyone in his right mind thinks there's going to be a phase two. I mean, Mr. Netanyahu may exaggerate, using his usual hyperbole about renewing the war and destroying Hamas, something which he hasn't done in the last 16 months. But phase two, aside from the hostages, again, that mean everything, but aside from the hostages, phase two requires, on day 42, today's day 33, on day 42, 10 days from now, requires an Israeli reduction of forces in two key passages in the Gaza Strip, and day 50, 5-0, which is 17 days from now, requires an Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, from 95 percent of the Gaza Strip.

That's not going to happen. Mr. Netanyahu had hoped that he would get a green light from President Trump to not go forward with phase two. He did not. So he chose, you know, by default, the second option, which is to derail this during and throughout the negotiation. So at that end, he basically fired, dismissed, removed, sidelined, call it what you want, the head of the Israeli Mossad and the head of the Israeli Shabbat, the General Security Service, both of which were on the negotiating team and put in their place one of his cronies from the government, a minister by the name of Ron Dermer. That is seen, that is perceived as something intended specifically to derail the negotiations.

FOSTER: OK, Alon Pinkas, thank you so much for joining us today.

PINKAS: Thank you, Max.

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FOSTER: As voters head to the polls in Germany this weekend, one far- right party in Germany, the AfD, has been gaining some international support, notably from Elon Musk, the world's richest man. The party is also growing more popular amongst some young people, in eastern Germany in particular. More on that from CNN's Sebastian Shukla.

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SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Suhl is a sleepy town in former East Germany, but over the last few years, it has seen a major political awakening with the far right, the Alternative for Germany, the AfD.

SHUKLA: This region, Thuringia, is AfD heartland. In fact, it became the first regional state to elect a far right party since the Nazi era. So we've come to hear from the most controversial figure in the region, Bjorn Hocke, and who might be listening to him.

SHUKLA (voice-over): The AfD in Thuringia is designated an extremist organization by German intelligence authorities. Hocke, as its head, has previously been convicted for the use of banned Nazi slogans.

Nevertheless, he's feted in these parts, in particular among young people. A question I put to him.

SHUKLA: There is rising popularity among young voters for the AfD. Are you a good role model?

BJORN HOCKE, AFD FACTION LEADER, THURINGIA, GERMANY (through translator): I hope that my performance is lively and that the youth can also identify with me. And if they can do that and see a bit of a pop star in me, then that's fine, because the youth also need idols like that.

SHUKLA (voice-over): Support from the youth for the AfD is growing quickly. In European elections last summer, votes from 16 to 34 year olds increased 18 percent from 2019. Young people we spoke to at the rally didn't hide their backgrounds either.

Dante Riedel, a 26 year old student, told me he's also designated an extremist and had clear ideological views. DANTE RIEDEL, STUDENT, AFD SUPPORTER (through translator): Prussian virtues, things like diligence, discipline, etc. These are the things that are important, including the cardinal virtues from antiquity.

SHUKLA (voice-over): Eric Engelhardt spent his evening photographing Hocke and as the regional head of the Young Alternatives, the AfD's youth wing. He's another party and Hocke disciple.

We met up with Eric and his friend Max the next day in picturesque Sonneberg. I asked Eric about Hocke's pop star comments.

ERIC ENGELHARDT, YOUNG ALTERNATIVE'S LEADER, THURINGIA, GERMANY (through translator): I see him as a politician who can achieve a lot for his country. He stands for something. He stands for his cause.

SHUKLA (voice-over): The Young Alternatives are also designated extremists by the domestic intelligence services, something that Eric says is a political conspiracy.

ENGELHARDT (through translator): Our secret service is controlled by politicians. It is an authority that is bound by instructions and ultimately it does what is said from above. We ourselves are not extremists. There are no extremists in the Young Alternatives.

SHUKLA (voice-over): The association was recently forced to disband effective 31st of March, but the mission isn't changing.

ENGELHARDT (through translator): Migration is the mother of all crisis. We have a lot of illegal immigrants in this country who are also on welfare, who are not behaving in this country. Many young people are on the side of the AfD and naturally want change.

SHUKLA (voice-over): Eric says the youth won't be deterred. They will be back, more formally aligned with the AfD and under a different name. But with the same vision for Germany's future.

Sebastian Shukla, CNN, Thuringia, Germany.

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FOSTER: We'll have a two-hour special on the German election on Sunday at 12 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. in London, 6 p.m. in Germany, right here on CNN.

As President Trump pushes his administration to slash the size of the cost of government, he's suggesting some of that money may end up in the pockets of Americans. Mr. Trump says he's thinking about returning 20 percent of the savings identified by Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency.

The President says another 20 percent of the DOGE savings may go towards paying down the national debt. DOGE claims it has already saved taxpayers about $55 billion. But when you look more closely, the numbers don't quite add up, as CNN's Tom Foreman shows us running through some of DOGE's wall of receipts.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And also, could you mention some of the --

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The White House is rolling out its wall of receipts on the DOGE website, claiming an estimated 55 billion taxpayer dollars rescued through fraud detection, workforce reductions, regulatory savings, and more.

TRUMP: Not like a little bit. Billions, tens of billions of dollars. It could be close to $1 trillion that we're going to find.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But hold on. A closer look shows big problems. For example, DOGE claimed axing a single immigration and customs contract saved $8 billion. Turns out that contract was worth a maximum of $8 million. And that was just a theoretical ceiling for the deal. Less than half that amount was actually slated to be spent.

DOGE corrected that error, but a CNN review of the more than 1,100 contracts listed on the DOGE site found about two-thirds made similar inflated claims.

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And while this alleged outrage dug up by DOGE grabbed headlines --

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There was about to be 50 million taxpayer dollars that went out the door to fund condoms in Gaza. That is a preposterous waste of taxpayer money.

FOREMAN (voice-over): That proved to be dead wrong, as DOGE boss Elon Musk admitted.

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Some of the things that I say will be incorrect and should be corrected.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Still, even with the receipts not all adding up, DOGE keeps filing reports of alleged widespread waste in aid to foreign countries, deals tied to diversity programs, and millions of dead people collecting Social Security.

MUSK: We've got people in there that are 150 years old.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Analysts say that most likely reflects DOGE's misunderstanding of Social Security data, and a former federal official calls the notion laughably false.

MARTIN O'MALLEY, FORMER SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION COMMISSIONER: He has no idea what he's talking about. There -- there is not like a zombie apocalypse of people, you know, cadavers running around with Social Security checks coming out of their pockets.

FORMAN: No one is saying there's no waste to be found. It's just that team Trump is wildly exaggerating what they have already discovered. And there is this.

Even if the DOGE numbers are correct and they have saved $55 billion, that's still way short of their goal of $1 trillion.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now, some encouraging news from the Vatican about the health of Pope Francis as he remains in hospital with pneumonia. We'll have a live report from Rome for you in just a moment.

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FOSTER: The Vatican says Pope Francis is showing slight improvement just days after he was diagnosed with pneumonia in both lungs. Earlier the Vatican said the 88-year-old pontiff had spent another peaceful night in the hospital in Rome where he was admitted last week. The Pope is said to be making decisions and signing off on things whilst there.

And on Wednesday he met with Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni. CNN's Barbie. Latza Nadeau is in Rome and has been following events closely. But all you've really got to go on, Barbie, is these two bulletins you're getting every day.

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN REPORTER: Yes, you know, I mean, they're a little bit curated, let's say. This information that's coming out of the Vatican is very much scripted to show this incremental improvements of the Pope. You know, we're getting details like this morning he got out of bed and was able to eat breakfast sitting in an armchair. That's better than yesterday when we heard that he just got out of bed and sat in the armchair. So these little details that are coming out.

We also haven't heard anything in great detail about what went on between the Prime Minister and Giorgia Meloni's meeting yesterday with him. She came, she was here for about 20 minutes. She described him as reactive and that he still had his sense of humor.

So, of course, all of this is good news in the sense that just 48 hours ago he was diagnosed with pneumonia in both of his lungs. One of those lungs, of course, compromised because he had part of it removed when he was a 19-year-old.

But this is a really important time of the year for the Vatican, Max, and you've got Lent coming up next week, Ash Wednesday next Wednesday, and that leads into the Easter season. This is usually the busiest time of the year for a pontiff, and it's especially important this year because it's the Holy Jubilee, something that this Pope in particular was really looking forward to presiding over all of these events.

So everyone, of course, is hoping and praying that he gets better soon, he can get back on his feet. But for someone who's 88 years old with mobility issues and these continuous respiratory issues, it's really worrying in terms of how long it's going to take him, you know, as this recovery goes forward to eventually get back out there and do the job he so demonstrably loves so much -- Max.

FOSTER: OK, Barbie, thank you, and we'll wait for the next update.

Now, another mid-air collision in the U.S., this time involving two small planes at a regional airport in Arizona. Details on the deadly incident, though, up next. Do stay with us.

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FOSTER: U.S. federal investigators are expected to arrive at the scene of a crash in Arizona in the coming hours after two small planes collided in midair at a regional airport on Wednesday. Two people were killed. One of the planes hit the ground and caught fire whilst the other was able to land.

Officials in the town of Marana, northwest of Tucson, said two people were on each plane. The AP reports the two survivors were on the plane that landed.

The Federal Aviation Administration said the airport does not have an operating air traffic control tower. Pilots often use a common traffic advisory frequency to announce their position to other pilots in the vicinity. The airport is closed during the investigation.

Investigators are trying to figure out what caused a massive sinkhole to swallow up part of a road in southern England. Authorities evacuated people from about 30 homes in the Surrey village of Godstone after the sinkhole appeared on Monday. Council officials say parts of the community may have been built upon sand pits, and they're checking to see if nearby homes are structurally sound.

A new study reveals that the world is losing fresh water and sea levels are rising quickly due to rapidly melting glaciers. Data from more than 35 research teams show the world's glaciers have lost approximately 5 percent on average of their total volume over the past two decades. However, the amount of ice being lost jumped by 36 percent in the second half of the study period compared to the first half. The study was published Wednesday in the journal Nature.

Thanks for joining me here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster in London. CNN "THIS MORNING" is up after a quick break.

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