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U.S. Envoy Meets With Zelenskyy After Trump Calls Him a Dictator; Soon, V.P. J.D. Vance Speaks at Annual Conservative Conference; Senate Committee Advances Linda McMahon's Path Education Secretary. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 20, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington.

And we are following multiple breaking news stories today. Right now, escalating feud, President Trump's Russia-Ukraine envoy is in Kyiv meeting with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy as the firestorm is intensifying over Trump calling Zelenskyy a dictator.

Plus, Vice President J.D. Vance is speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference as he and Trump take a victory lap.

And on Capitol Hill, a crucial test for Linda McMahon, she is facing a key vote in her path to become education secretary.

We begin this hour with President Trump's unraveling relationship with an ally at war. In Kyiv, Volodymyr Zelenskyy is meeting with the U.S. envoy to Ukraine, as I mentioned, as Trump ramps up his attacks on the Ukrainian president. He has called Zelenskyy a dictator repeatedly and nearly three years after Russia illegally invaded Ukraine. He has blamed Zelenskyy for the war.

It has been a remarkable 48 hours, including these comments yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: A modestly successful comedian, President Zelenskyy, talked the United States of America into spending $350 billion to go into a war that basically couldn't be won. The only thing he was really good at was playing Joe Biden like a fiddle. He played him like a fiddle, a dictator without elections. So, let's keep better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. Got to move, got to move fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We have a fact check on this. President Trump's embrace of Russian talking points is so extraordinary that even a key Putin deputy appears shocked. Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev posted on social media, quote, if you had told me three months ago that these were the words of the U.S. president, I would have laughed out loud, end quote.

Joining us now is CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour and CNN Military Analyst, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Chris, I know you want to respond to what we just heard from Trump and fact checking that, but also help us put this into context, how big of a deal this is. Is this a leverage move to pressure Zelenskyy or could we be witnessing the beginning of a new world order here?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I think a little bit of both is going on. Certainly, allies are concerned about what appears to be a realignment away from alliances and towards adversaries, in this case, Russia. But beyond that, you've already heard, I think, the national security adviser, Mike Waltz, essentially trying to cool and calm this situation down, saying that, I'm paraphrasing now but I just saw it cross, that, you know, they need to get back on track and cool this personal exchange that's going on with what is, after all, a key American ally. Why? Because it is, Ukraine, the trip line between Russia and the rest of the U.S. alliance.

And I think we have to be super, super realistic about what actually has happened over three years. President Zelenskyy has stood up and confronted and defeated Russia's maximalist aims. That was President Zelenskyy before even getting one single weapon, one single bullet from the United States. If you remember when President Biden called him and said, do you need a ride out, an airlift out right after Russia invaded? He said, I don't need an airlift. I don't need a ride. I need ammunition and weapons.

On the issue of the money, $320 million, as President Trump said thereabouts, he said, is about the amount, but it's not all from the United States. At least half of that is from Europe. And the money from the United States comprises about $67 billion worth of weapons, old stockpiles, right, and you know more about that than I do, and then another $30-plus billion in terms of loans and stuff to buy back American weapons. So, it's actually being plowed back into the American economy.

So, just to be clear, the Europeans have absolutely stood up, everybody admits that. Europeans are actually doing a pretty good job in the three years since this full scale invasion, because they know they have to stand up and they know they have to do more.

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But this is a crucial point.

And, you know, you said Medvedev reacted in shock, shock but glee. I mean, they are thrilled. They are thrilled. And this is very important. Whatever your endgame is, you cannot show your hand to the adversary from the beginning.

BROWN: You know, earlier I was speaking with a former Trump administration official from the first time he said, what's different here, you know, Trump was always sort of friendly with Russia the first time, but now we're seeing more actions, sort of bolstering those words supporting Russia's narrative.

And, you know, it is remarkable when you think about Trump calling Zelenskyy a dictator. We're not hearing him say Putin is.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's right, even though the facts are that Putin is a dictator. And when you look at, you know, you look at the election results from Ukraine back in 2019 when they had the election for Zelenskyy, Zelenskyy won the second round of that vote with almost 75 percent of the vote. And his popularity, according to the latest polls, is at least at 52 percent. The most recent poll has him at 57 percent.

So, he is not going anywhere, and, in fact, Trump's remarks, President Trump's remarks against Zelenskyy will serve to solidify Ukrainian support for Zelenskyy. Now, Zelenskyy is seen as the bulwark against the meddling from the United States. He's seen as the one guy that can basically keep Russia at bay. And he's also the person who can make that connection to NATO, to the NATO countries in Europe that no other Ukrainian leader could do. So, the indispensable person appears to be Zelenskyy in this,

AMANPOUR: And I think it's very important watching these pictures of Mr. Kellogg there, who also has obviously a military background and he knows the lay of the land. Certainly, Zelenskyy was hoping to take him to some of the frontline because a false narrative is also being taking hold in this country. And it's Russian propaganda and disinformation that Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians are losing. Yes, they are under threat. There's no doubt. But the Russians have not been able, in three years, have not been able to get the whole of the Donbas region. They've got some bits.

Yes, they keep probing. Yes, they -- but in the last year, this fight has been over inches, practically inches. The Russians have not been able to get their maximalist demands, either on the battlefield or politically. And it's really important to recognize that the Ukrainians are fighting.

And regarding the elections, yes, Zelenskyy hasn't had an election. That's true. It should have happened, you know, what, last year or something. But when I asked him about that, he said, look, we have martial law. I'm here trying to save my country. And if we raise martial law, then we risk losing our army, because martial law is all about gathering the army, gathering the troops for Ukraine to fight its fight and our fight. Ukraine are the foot soldiers right now.

LEIGHTON: Exactly. And you know, they are the foot soldiers and the fact of the matter is under the Ukrainian Constitution, you cannot have elections. I think it's Article 30 of the Ukrainian Constitution that says if there's martial law, if you're being invaded, you cannot have elections. They can only happen once martial law is lifted. So, that's the kind of thing that we're dealing with here.

And in terms of the military picture, you know, you look at how hard it has been for the Russians to move forward. They've had a significant problem doing this. Logistically, they're not capable of doing it. We saw that when they tried to capture Kyiv and that long -- 40-mile long, convoy ended up in utter destruction because the Ukrainians stopped it. And they were able to do that not only with soldiers, but with regular farmers who volunteered their time and effort to do what they needed to do.

BROWN: I want to hear what you have to say to that. But I first want to go over to Nick Paton Walsh. He's in Kyiv. And he can bring us into this meeting that's happening right now between Zelenskyy and Kellogg, the significance of it during this critical time. Nick?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, important just to give you some breaking news here.

We had been gathered around the presidency on the (INAUDIBLE) potentially, as you'd expect in situations like this, that after the two men met, they might take questions from the press. But we have been told by an aide to the Ukrainian president that there will not be a press availability after this meeting, and that is at the request of the American side.

Now, I read into that what you will. I think it certainly speaks to the frostiness maybe that's set into this meeting after the remarkable comments of President Donald Trump last night on Air Force One, that President Zelenskyy was asleep when the U.S. treasury secretary came here to deliver a deal over rare earth minerals. And I think it also potentially speaks to the complexity of what General Keith Kellogg came here to do, which was to listen to the Ukrainians, to hear the things that they felt would work for them, for a peace deal, to hear their concerns about security guarantees.

And he's had the meetings, he's met the foreign minister, he's met Zelenskyy's chief of staff, he's met military (INAUDIBLE) chiefs. So, he's heard firsthand on the ground.

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There's been talk from Ukraine's president if he'd like to take him to the frontlines is unclear. Indeed, if that is potentially going to happen, complex as it would be at the best of times. But this trip has been, no other way to put it, overshadowed by the intensifying personal spat between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy, initiated when Trump suggested Ukraine started the war and Zelenskyy had 4 percent poll ratings, both it's false. Then Zelenskyy said Trump was in a different disinformation space, and that led to the remarkable claim that Zelenskyy is a dictator who refused (INAUDIBLE) and even suggesting the money had been stolen.

So, we are out here waiting to see how this meeting progresses. But the fact that neither men together at this point think they're going to speak to the press and discuss the results of their meeting potentially suggests certainly how the American side feel this may go. It's possible things may go well between them when they have common ground, but there's a frostiness here, certainly, that may have led to what you would normally expect answering questions from the press. That's simply not happening for now.

BROWN: Yes, frostiness, literally and figuratively, right? And certainly we have a lot of questions. What do you think about this?

AMANPOUR: So, look, I think it's absolutely has to be a reduction of this kind of temperature. There has to be something that comes together to put this relationship back on track. I can't see any other way forward other than giving Russia what it wants. Russia has not, in any forum, changed its maximalist positions and demands than it did on the day, you know, it invaded. I want all of the Donbas, I want all of Crimea. They still say that. We want the Nazi puppet regime out of Kyiv. We want Kyiv to be essentially no NATO, no independent space. That is what they want. They want a neutral Ukraine back into the Russian fold. That's what they want. And they also want territory that they haven't even won at the moment. They're asking for territory that they haven't even occupied or won at this moment. So, that's an issue.

Now, I know that probably the Trump administration has questions about what kind of weapons. We know that actually, yes, President Trump did supply Javelins to Ukraine, which were, you know, after a lot of conversation, and you have more of the details on that, which were actually quite instrumental in the early days of the invasion. The Ukrainians -- I was there. I watched it. They use these shoulder-held missiles and were able to stop Russian tanks and armored vehicles that were coming down from the north from Belarus to try to capture Kyiv, and that was instrumental. So, that shows what Ukraine can do and did do with American help.

And certainly one of President Trump's previous envoys Kurt Volker, who was his envoy to Ukraine, is also very clear that he believes the U.S. will have to keep arming Ukraine because it actually works. And you don't want, necessarily, I assume, even this administration doesn't want Russia to have the whole kitten caboodle in Ukraine.

LEIGHTON: Yes, I think that's absolutely correct. And, you know, you're absolutely right, Christiane, about the Javelins because they were instrumental in really stopping the Russian onslaught because the Russians were basically going to do a pincer movement to capture Kyiv and basically decapitate the Ukrainian regime. They were obviously unsuccessful in that.

And when you look at what is happening right now, you have Ukrainian forces in a part of Russia, in the Kursk region, a very small part of Russia. You know, it's about maybe half the size of a normal U.S. county that they currently occupy. And it is one of those things where right now in the tactical sense, the Ukrainians are preventing the Russians from capturing the town of Pokrovsk in the east. And that is also significant because it's an area that has been decimated by fighting but the Russians have been at it for months now, trying to capture that one piece of Ukrainian territory.

And, you know, Christiane, you're absolutely right, they have not been able to capture parts of Donetsk and Luhansk, those provinces that are part of the Donbas that they say they want as part of a settlement. And if the Russians get a settlement, what they will do with this is they will use it as a pause to move forward once the opportunity presents itself for them to capture more of Ukrainian territory or even the entire country.

AMANPOUR: And also threaten other countries. That's what the alliance is concerned about, what is going to stop Putin.

But I think, you know, also really interestingly, really, the question is, what is President Trump's negotiating style? Many people say the things that he puts out are a way to get people to come to some kind of table and discuss. And I think it's really important to remember that just a few weeks ago, I can't remember exactly what date, but, you know, towards the end of January, I think, President Trump put out a tweet that essentially told Vladimir Putin, you can do this the easy way or the hard way.

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You know, either you're going to come to the table and end this, or we're going to add sanctions, add this, add that. I mean, he put pressure on Putin.

So, it's interesting to see that then, and then this now, and, you know, what is the actual endgame and strategy for some kind of talks towards end this. Obviously, this has to be ended in some way. But it has to be done in a way that does not surrender and maintains a secure Europe and a secure part of the world, which is still part of the NATO alliance, not Ukraine, but Europe, obviously. And I think that stuff is what we're going to be really waiting for.

And don't forget, you know, Russia, which has four times the size population of Ukraine, has lost many more, tens of thousands of people, than Ukraine has, many more, something like -- I mean, I heard a top British -- you know, the head of the defense force there saying in the region of 700,000 in three years, dead and injured Russians, and 400,000 in the last 12 months alone.

BROWN: Yes. Well, wow. Christiane Amanpour, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much for bringing your analysis and to help better understand what is unfolding right now on the world stage.

Soon, Vice President J.D. Vance will speak at a key conservative conference. Will he double down on President Trump's turn on Ukraine? We're going to take you there live.

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BROWN: In moments, Vice President J.D. Vance is kicking off CPAC's annual event with opening day remarks. The conservative conference is being held in National Harbor, Maryland and wraps up Saturday with expected remarks by President Trump.

CNN's Steve Contorno joins us now from the event. Steve, what are we hearing from the vice president?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well, he hasn't taken the stage yet, Pamela. We're expecting him any moment now, and he will especially talk about the first month of the Trump administration for this CPAC crowd, breaking down what the administration has done in those first four weeks in office. And we will be watching closely to see if he continues to double down on the anti-Ukraine rhetoric coming from Donald Trump and as well as J.D. Vance. Yesterday, he was critical of Ukrainian President Zelenskyy saying that he shouldn't be attacking the president in public and maybe he wouldn't be in this situation right now, and he doubled down on that. Just before taking the stage today, he posted on X the following, quote, for three years, President Trump and I have made two simple arguments. First, the war wouldn't have started if President Trump was in office. Second, that neither Europe nor the Biden administration nor the Ukrainians had any pathway to victory. This was true three years ago. It was true to two years ago. It was true last year. It was true today. He went on to say that this war is bad for Ukraine, bad for Russia, bad for Europe and bad for the U.S.

And this is a message that he has been delivering to this CPAC crowd really since the war began. In fact, I just went back and looked at his remarks to CPAC in 2022, which were two days after Russia first invaded Ukraine, and he was highly critical of those in the United States saying that we should be supporting the Ukrainian effort, saying even then that we should not be putting money behind Ukraine until we have fixed our own U.S. borders. He said that Washington was, quote, obsessed with this idea that Ukraine needed assistance. And so that has been his message throughout this war. And now, in a position of power, he has continued to echo similar themes. Pamela?

BROWN: Steve Contorno, thank you so much.

And happening now on Capitol Hill, a key Senate committee just advanced the nomination of Linda McMahon to be the next secretary of the Department of Education, of course, a department that President Trump wants to get rid of.

CNN's Manu Raju joins us now on Capitol Hill. So, where do things stand now?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is a straight party line vote, 12 to 11 vote. The debate that really was colored over Donald Trump's and the efforts by the DOGE, Elon Musk's efforts to fire federal officials to try to potentially gut the Education Department. It was really a larger debate over the role that the Education Department would have in Donald Trump's administration. But, nonetheless, the Democratic concerns did not sway any Republicans who joined, helped push this nomination through. Now, she will go to the full Senate. It will be considered as soon as next week and very likely to be confirmed as well Linda McMahon to be the next education secretary.

That confirmation vote probably will happen next week. But a key hurdle here is Donald Trump again seeing Republicans back his cabinet choices really down the line, even the most controversial ones, even some that have prompted major concerns from Democrats. Nevertheless, Republicans believe she's the right person for the job and ultimately voted to push her through a panel.

BROWN: The right person for the job that President Trump said he wants her to put herself out of the job, very unusual times in that regard.

So, Manu, this afternoon, the Senate will vote to break a filibuster on Kash Patel's nomination to become FBI director. What are you hearing from Senators about his future?

RAJU: Yes. He's very likely also to get confirmed, despite this one also being a very controversial pick. Remember, most of the time that FBI directors, they're not fired, or they're not -- new presidents typically don't come in and install an FBI director. It's typically a ten-year term that is filled out by that FBI director. But Trump made clear he wanted Christopher Wray, the former FBI director, out. Christopher Wray stepped aside and Kash Patel is now coming in.

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And now this critical vote this afternoon where we do expect him to have the votes to get confirmed, maybe on straight party lines as well.

Two votes to watch Senators Lisa Murkowski, Senator Susan Collins. I asked both of them just now if they would vote to confirm Kash Patel. Collins said that she will have a statement out shortly. Murkowski didn't say. But even if they were to vote no, Pamela, it requires four Republicans to break ranks on any party line vote to stop a nomination from going forward. So far, zero Republicans have come out in opposition, which is why Republicans are very confident that after weeks of fighting, after efforts by Democrats to try to stall, delay and derail the nomination, that Kash Patel will get the job later this afternoon.

BROWN: Manu Raju from Capitol Hill, thank you.

And coming up, bracing for major budget cuts at the Pentagon. A memo sent by Defense Secretary Hegseth on where to cut first, up next.

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