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Marine Le Pen Banned From 2027 Race In Embezzlement Verdict; Trump Plans To Unveil Sweeping New Tariffs This Week; Rescuers Race To Find Survivors In Myanmar; Trump Criticizes Kremlin, Threatens More Oil Tariffs; U.S. Stocks Fall In Q1, Recession Risks Rise Amid Tariff Fears. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired March 31, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:42]

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to all our viewers around the world. I'm Lynda Kinkade. And this is CNN NEWSROOM.

First, a ruling that shuffling all the cards in French politics. Far right leader Marine Le Pen, who many saw as a possible next French president, is calling a court ruling to ban her from seeking public office for five years purely political. The stunning ruling from a court in Paris came during her conviction on embezzlement charges, which she has denied. She was also handed a four-year prison sentence, with two years suspended and two years to be served under house arrest.

Her attorney said the ruling and conviction will be appealed. Le Pen last hour said the rule of law is completely violated and then an effective recourse under the European convention of human rights was denied.

Jordan Bardella, Le Pen's successor at the National Rally party, is asking people to sign a petition in support of her and calling for a, quote, peaceful mobilization.

Well, CNN's Melissa Bell is following the story and joins us from Paris.

Good to have you with us, Melissa.

So, Le Pen and others were found guilty of embezzling more than 4 million euros from the European parliament in a system where they set up some sort of fake job contracts. Just take us through the court ruling and Le Pen's reaction.

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, the verdict and sentencing went as far as the prosecution had sought. And when the prosecution had sought those very harsh sentences, including that ineligibility clause of five years back in November, there had been a lot of surprise, frankly, Linda, that they should be calling for that. In fact, the current justice minister, who is by no means a supporter of Marine Le Pen or of her party, had tweeted at the time that this would represent judicial overreach. Now, I think that is why, and that is the context in which you have to

understand that the presiding judge really went to great lengths and took great pains today to explain that it was precisely because of the nature of this vast system of embezzlement of public E.U. funds in order to fund a political party that at the time was struggling financially, and that that the presiding judge was taking these very severe measures and imposing this very harsh sentence because, she explained, it had been an attack on democracy itself, that the party should have misused the funds in the way that it did.

Now, as to Marine Le Pen's reaction, well, it's very combative. This is a woman who's been fighting for decades to reform, transform the party she inherited and took over from her father, who's been fighting in three presidential elections already. She had her eye very much on 2027.

That appears to be finished now as a result of this verdict. This is an extremely combative woman by nature and what she told French television just a few moments ago was that she is a fighter and she will continue to fight, describing, as you say, this judgment as a political one, although again, the presiding judge went to great lengths to explain the judicial nature of the judge's findings and how they had come to the conclusions that they had.

There are two separate things here. There is the judicial case that was quite well known. These are old allegations that have been pored over by French media and at the heart of this trial, now for many months and years, and that were well-known to the public. And it was little surprise that they should be found guilty of that misuse of public European funds.

But I think what has come as a shock is that the judge should have gone as far as she could in approving that sentence, which again has huge political ramifications, not just for Marine Le Pen, by the way, in herself and her future and potential presidential hopes, but actually, very immediately for the French government. This is, after all, the National Rally, the largest political party in the French assembly. And there are questions now of how far they will go to support the current prime minister over the course of the next few months, Lynda.

KINKADE: And, Melissa, just take us through the international reaction, because we have seen reaction from both the Kremlin, even Elon Musk. What are they saying?

BELL: The Kremlin's reaction was the first international reaction that I saw. And it was very interesting. It spoke to Democratic norms, said the Kremlin, that had been breached very quickly after Viktor Orban, the Hungarian leader, spoke or tweeted rather Je Suis Marine a reference, of course, you'll remember to Je Suis Charlie in the wake of those attacks ten years ago.

[15:05:03]

And then of course, we heard and this was fairly predictable, because this has been one of his big themes, Elon Musk tweet, as expected, that he said when the radical left feels that they're not going to win an election, they use the judiciary to take on their opponents. And I think this is very much in line with what we've seen him say about German politics and the politics of other countries in which he's chosen to implicate himself and carry a judgment on.

So, a lot of reaction from people you would expect to have supported marine le pen. So no surprise really, really picking up the themes that her party is likely to continue speaking very loudly, and she herself has made clear she will not keep quiet on in the next few days, that this was judicial overreach, and that she should have been allowed to present herself to the -- in the polls, to the French public, and that this was not a decision that a judge should have made.

So, a lot of very interesting days ahead here in France and political debates to come. Linda.

KINKADE: All right. Melissa Bell, good to have you across the story for us from Paris. Thank you.

Well, the looming new wave of U.S. tariffs is fueling major economic worries right across the globe. The uncertainty led to another volatile day for world markets.

And here's how U.S. stocks are faring. Less than an hour before closing bell. You can see it quite mixed right now, and we are two days away from what President Donald Trump is calling "Liberation Day". That's when he plans to impose sweeping tariffs targeting all countries that levy duties on the U.S. and it will include a new 25 percent levy on cars and car parts, which was announced by the U.S. last week.

Well, a short time ago, the White House press secretary deferred to the president when she was asked about the details of the upcoming tariffs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'll let the president make the announcement on Wednesday, but I think any country that has treated the American people unfairly should expect to receive a tariff in return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: So, Richard Quest is live for us in New York.

Good to see you, Richard.

So, Liberation Day coming this Wednesday. That's what Donald Trump is calling it. What are the expectations?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: We don't really know, to be honest. We know that the auto tariffs are supposed to be coming along and the reciprocal tariffs. But he's teased us over the last 24 hours that maybe he's been talking about some countries and saying he's had good discussions. But then on the other hand he says there'll be no exemptions and no exemptions.

So, frankly, on -- we just don't know. Liberation Day, supposedly the day that the United States economy and trade policy is liberated from the yoke of those unfair tariffs that so many other countries put on the U.S. and whilst its certainly true that Donald Trump does have a point, a valid point, the U.S. does pay in many cases higher and in some cases unfair tariffs. It is the way the administration that has gone about this that is so disruptive, and that's what the market doesn't like.

KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. I mean certainly investors, business leaders, heads of state don't like uncertainty. We've got a graphic. I just want to pull up of the tariffs that are already been announced. So, 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico suspended for auto. China has gone from 10 to 20 percent. Steel and aluminum 25 percent, E.U. 25 percent, auto 25 percent. Which of course, as you mentioned, will come in Wednesday. And the worldwide reciprocal tariffs are expected on Wednesday.

QUEST: Right.

KINKADE: So Richard, how would you describe Donald Trump's use of tariffs?

QUEST: One great, big, massive economic experiment, the like of which we have not seen since the '20s, the 1920s, Smoot-Hawley. We have never seen by an advanced economic country, the use of tariffs in quite this way before. In fact, what he is doing is contrary to all the conventional wisdom of how widespread tariffs are so damaging.

The goal, of course, is to rebalance U.S. trade. And what does that mean? It means either getting other countries to lower their tariffs and non-tariff barriers, import restrictions, rules, regulations, barriers, that sort of thing, or get companies to transfer production back to the United States, build new factories, start new businesses. But that's a long-term goal. Thats a sort of five, 10, 15-year aim. That's not going to happen before this administration comes to an end.

KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. Although he is teasing a third term, that's another story. Richard Quest --

QUEST: Yes.

KINKADE: We will --

QUEST: Don't start me on that one.

KINKADE: We'll talk again soon. Thanks so much.

QUEST: Yeah.

KINKADE: Well, I want to turn to Myanmar now, where time is running out for rescue crews who are actively searching for survivors after a massive 7.7 magnitude earthquake tore through the country on Friday.

Our Ivan Watson is tracking the devastation. [15:10:03]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Desperate cries for help, two teenage girls trapped in an air pocket with their grandmother under the rubble of their home, trying to get the attention of the outside world by banging on concrete with a butter knife.

The trio trapped and terrified for 15 hours until rescuers pulled them to safety. Frantic rescue efforts repeated across Myanmar since a deadly 7.7 magnitude earthquake shook the country on Friday.

These two women, who asked not to be identified, say they were also trapped when their five-story hotel in Mandalay collapsed.

WATSON: Could you see outside? Could you see daylight from where you were?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We were trapped in total darkness. But, the good thing is, we had a phone and we could use its light to see. If we didn't have that, we could have died. We could see to clear rubble from on top of each other.

WATSON: They say civilian volunteers from the neighborhood rescued them after five frightening hours.

Also in Mandalay on Monday, a Chinese rescue team pulled three people from the wreckage of a residential high-rise, including a pregnant woman and a little girl. But now, as more time passes, hope starts to dwindle. The majority of those still missing now thought unlikely to be alive.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people in quake-damaged cities and towns must now find food, clean water, and shelter. Myanmar's military ruler, Min Aung Hlaing, who rules over a closed society and rarely cooperates with the international community, is asking for international aid and help.

Already one of the poorest nations in Asia, Myanmar has been further devastated by four years of civil war, and the earthquake zone crosses the war's frontlines. With its people in desperate need, some have been critical of the military junta.

YANGHEE LEE, FORMER U.N. SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ON MYANMAR HUMAN RIGHTS: Why hasn't Min Aung Hlaing sent in all of his military assets for rescue and relief? We don't see any helicopters with rescue and relief team. We only see civilians digging into the rubble.

WATSON: Some lucky survivors in this majority Buddhist country are giving thanks to a higher power.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): While being trapped, we learned that nothing is permanent, and the most important thing to do before death is to live a happy life and to do many good deeds. Don't do bad things, because karma will follow you.

WATSON: They say they may become nuns to show their gratitude for their miraculous escape.

Ivan Watson, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Well, Iran is responding after U.S. President Donald Trump threatened to bomb the country and impose secondary tariffs unless they reach an agreement over the country's nuclear program. Iran's supreme leader rejected Mr. Trump's threat in a speech, saying any action will be reciprocated. President Trump pulled the U.S. out of an Obama era Iran nuclear deal during his first term in office.

And President Trump had some harsh words for his Russian counterpart over the weekend. The U.S. leader openly aired his grievances about President Vladimir Putin and Russian conditions on working towards a peace deal with Ukraine. Trump used the words very angry and pissed off to describe the situation during an interview with NBC. And he threatened more tariffs on Russian oil.

A Kremlin spokesman said the Russian government will continue to work with the White House, but offered few specifics.

The U.S. presidents warning to the Kremlin came shortly after his administration presented Ukraine with a new version of a minerals deal. The agreement would give the U.S. access to Ukraine's oil, gas and minerals. Trump says there will be, quote, big, big problems if Kyiv tries to back out.

CNN's Clare Sebastian is tracking that story from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, with efforts to get to the point of a ceasefire in Ukraine essentially stalled, the U.S. appears to be stepping up efforts to get a mineral deal over the line, a central part, of course, of President Trump's strategy to ensure the U.S. gets something in return for helping Ukraine.

Well, two sources familiar with the matter told CNN on Friday. The U.S. has put forward a new proposal and one that goes beyond the original arrangement that was set to be signed on February 27th, the day of that Oval Office spat between President Trump and Zelenskyy. Well, the new proposal would apparently give the U.S. more access to Ukraine's mineral reserves and would apply to all mineral resources, including oil and gas, according to those sources, who also said it does not contain any promise of postwar security guarantees for Ukraine.

Zelenskyy, who has maintained he's open to signing a mineral deal in principle, let slip some frustration last week.

[15:15:03] He said on Thursday that the U.S. keeps changing the terms of the deal. And on Friday, he called the new proposal an entirely different document, which contains some things that hadn't been discussed and some things that had already been rejected.

Well, on Sunday, President Trump hit back.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Zelenskyy, by the way, I see he's trying to back out of the rare earth deal. And if he does that, he's got some problems. Big, big problems.

SEBASTIAN: Well, the risks for Ukraine are clear. Last time President Trump and Zelenskyy fell out, the U.S. paused military aid and intelligence sharing, though later reinstated it. The difference now, though, more than a month on, is that Trump is signaling he's also willing to get tough on Russia and ramp up economic pressure to sign on to a ceasefire, without which, of course, the U.S. cannot start reaping the benefits of Ukraine's mineral wealth.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Well, start as you mean to go on. Believe it or not, the first quarter of 2025 is almost over. Investors are on Wall Street trying to catch their breath. We'll have the latest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade.

Well, the losses may have eased today, but it's still been a first quarter traders on Wall Street want to forget. Today marks the end of Q1, and all three of the major U.S. stock markets have lost value. The Nasdaq, worst of all.

And the risks to the U.S. economy are growing. Goldman Sachs now says there's a 35 percent chance of a recession in the next 12 months. Thats up from 20 percent in a previous forecast.

The U.S. consumer confidence has also plunged in recent months. While we wait for the upcoming tariffs.

Well, Rick Newman is the senior columnist at Yahoo! Finance and joins us now from New York.

Good to have you with us.

RICK NEWMAN, SENIOR COLUMNIST, YAHOO! FINANCE: Thanks.

KINKADE: So, let's start with the risk of recession. Goldman Sachs saying it's much more likely than it was 12 months ago. Just to explain why.

[15:20:02] NEWMAN: Well, tariffs raise costs. So, everybody who buys stuff is going to be paying a little bit more because tariffs are a consumption tax. It's just a tax on imports. We import a lot of stuff to the United States. So, assuming these tariffs stick and President Trump keeps them in place, it just means that prices are going to go up. So, consumers are going to spend more for the same amount of stuff. That means they're going to be able to buy less stuff.

Businesses will be spending more, that will leave lower profits, less investment. And this -- this is just the way one of the ways any ways that you cut into economic growth. Now for all the headlines and all the drama that the tariffs are getting, they are not on their own going -- going to plunge the U.S. economy into a recession. But they're going to raise costs and they're going to lower returns for businesses at a bad time.

I mean, obviously, we've just been through three years of higher than usual inflation that has stung consumers. People really feel burned by inflation. They want to see prices coming down and it looks like they're not going to get it. They're going to get the opposite, which is prices going up.

KINKADE: Yeah exactly. And not surprising then that consumer confidence this month slumped to a 12-year low. More Americans certainly concerned about tariffs and also potential job losses. What could some of these tariffs mean in terms of job losses.

NEWMAN: Well, when costs go up, especially with all the uncertainty you know, our businesses want to know what are my costs going to be next year to the extent that I -- that I can say what those are going to be. And in a solid economic environment, they do a pretty good job of estimating what their costs are. If you think your costs are going to be higher than you budgeted for, there's a good chance you're just going to hold off on investments.

There's a -- these are a lot of things that sort of happen behind the scenes in the U.S. economy.

It's not like you, you know, a lot of people won't notice this, but when -- when businesses cut investment by just 10 percent, let's say that might be a -- that might be ten or 20 or 30 workers. They don't hire at a -- at a factory. Or it might be one new factory. They don't start -- they don't break ground on next year because they're waiting for the following year.

So, it's kind of amorphous the way these, these tariffs will affect the business climate. What consumers will see is slightly higher prices. They are preparing for that. They have been paying attention. Thats why we have seen these dismal consumer confidence, measures.

People are not saying things are terrible today, but they're saying we think things are actually going to get worse, not better. And that's because of the tariffs.

KINKADE: And Trump has overstated some of the tariffs. For example, when his administration came out speaking about tariffs on dairy products, he said Canada imposes a 200 percent tariff on dairy products, when in fact those tariffs only kick in once. You know it gets to a certain quantity and it's never reached that.

Why would the administration push that false narrative?

NEWMAN: Well, you have to get inside his head to explain that one completely. I can't do that.

But there are many ways in which Trump is basically just trying to sort of lay the groundwork for the types of tariffs that he seems to want to put in place.

Another one, Richard Quest was talking about this a few minutes ago. The so-called non-tariff barriers. So, a country can have low tariffs on U.S. imports, but they might have other ways. You know, they just don't let that many U.S. products into the market.

Trump has also talked about this idea of a value added tax, which is kind of a national sales tax a lot of countries have. He says that is a non-tariff barrier to trade. Economists say it is not. We have sales taxes here in the United States.

But there is something about tariffs. Trump just loves tariffs. He thinks they are a solution to almost any -- any problem. And he wants to impose tariffs. So, he is coming up with the rationale to impose tariffs on a country by country basis and almost on a product by product basis.

So, we're going to find out when so-called Liberation Day arrives in I guess its two days now. What he really has in mind. But I think we have to get used to the idea. Trump just likes tariffs.

KINKADE: Yep. He calls it the most beautiful word in the dictionary. So, we'll see -- we'll see what happens come Wednesday. But he has threatened tariffs in the past and walked them back. So, I think there is some hope that that might happen.

Rick Newman, senior columnist at Yahoo! Finance, thanks so much.

NEWMAN: Thank you.

KINKADE: Well, new tariffs could impact a number of companies based in the U.S., including craft breweries.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher explains why this industry is especially vulnerable.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A bustling brewery, hands stacked to the ceiling, as new ones come down the line, just six months ago.

ADAM CHARNACK, HI-WIRE BREWING: All this was destroyed in the hurricane.

GALLAGHER: Hi-Wire Brewing's distribution warehouse fully underwater after Hurricane Helene.

CHARNACK: One-point-three million unfilled raw cans, waiting to be filled with beer.

[15:25:01]

Almost 200,000 filled cans and all that was destroyed.

GALLAGHER: Co-founder Adam Charnack says they've improvised and spent a lot of money to get Hi-Wire brewing again.

CHARNACK: Oh, yes.

GALLAGHER: Cheers.

CHARNACK: Cheers.

GALLAGHER: And while these cans are signs of a comeback, they're also the source of a new challenge.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is the beginning of making America rich again.

GALLAGHER: President Trump imposed sweeping 25 percent tariffs on all steel and aluminum imported into the United States, much of which comes from Canada and is used by brewers around the country. Now Trump says the tariffs will level the playing field for domestic manufacturing.

JAMES SMITH, ECONOMIC FORECASTER: It's a tax. A tariff is a tax.

GALLAGHER: Economists warn it's not that simple.

SMITH: The U.S. doesn't produce enough aluminum. We may cure that, but that will probably take at least a decade. So, we have to import it.

CHARNACK: There's only so many options on where you buy your things.

The cans are manufactured in the United States. I can't control where they get their aluminum from. Our can prices went up immediately 5 percent, and they'll probably go up again. There's 24 cans in a case so, you know, you already have a quarter a case right there.

So those things really add up. And when you're selling, you know, it's a volume game. You know, we don't sell 100 cases a day or a week. We're selling thousands and thousands of meeting that cost.

GALLAGHER: And the only alternative to recoup that right now would be to charge more.

CHARNACK: I can't do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the most active beer cities in the country.

GALLAGHER: The extra costs are especially hard to swallow here in Asheville, home to more than 50 breweries that account for more than 2,500 jobs, with nearly $1 billion in local economic impact, according to the Asheville Chamber of Commerce. After months of loss, the beer industry, like the city, is still getting back on its feet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six months to the day we finally got a beer in the tank.

GALLAGHER: The French Broad River Brewery is still recovering from Helene. Owner Paul Casey says tariffs could make some of these small businesses pivot.

Is there sort of a breaking point?

PAUL CASEY, OWNER, FRENCH BROAD BREWERY: I think it will change some people's or some companies or breweries' business plan. So instead of packaging their beers up and sending them out into the market they may focus more on their taprooms. It's a lot lower cost.

GALLAGHER: Brewers also worry about tariff proposals on the horizon.

CASEY: A lot of our grain and malts are sourced from overseas, from Germany and the U.K. And that will impact a lot of breweries across the board.

CHARNACK: Now, a lot of our ingredients are just globally sourced.

GALLAGHER: Is it sustainable?

CHARNACK: Right now, I can tell you, you know, our costs have gone up in our cans. There's nothing I can do about it. Our margins are pretty thin as it is. So, it's making it harder in an already difficult situation to be a successful small business.

GALLAGHER: Dianne Gallagher, CNN, Asheville, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Well, still to come -- from the White House and the Pentagon to the CIA, we're tracking Elon Musk's high-profile meetings. Details ahead on the tech billionaire's efforts to reshape the federal government.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:31:31]

KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade.

U.S. President Donald Trump is making final plans for new reciprocal tariffs. The president's choices will be announced Wednesday on what he is calling, quote, Liberation Day.

However, it's not known precisely what the president will announce. He has signaled he intends to apply a dollar-for-dollar tariff on imported goods. President Trump's own top economic adviser couldn't say what would happen when asked by Fox News on Sunday. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: President Trump has a long run vision of a golden age of America, and we're working really, really hard to get it out there in time. But I can't give you any forward looking guidance on what's going to happen this week. The president has got a heck of a lot of analysis before him, and he's going to make the right choice. I'm sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: Well, joining us now from the White House is CNN's Kevin Liptak.

Good to see you, Kevin.

So, it sounds like Donald Trump might be weighing his options right up until the announcement. What are you hearing?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, that's what it sounds like. And in fact, it seems as if every single one of his economic advisers has come up with their own sort of set of plans that they have presented to the president, and now it will fall on him to make the decision about what exactly he will announce on Wednesday, which has led to all kinds of uncertainty.

You know, basically all we know about what the president plans to do is where he'll do it. He'll be in the rose garden. But what exactly these new tariffs will look like remains to be seen. And you have heard different things from different people, different things, even from the president himself about the scope and scale of these tariffs. At some point he says that these will be the dollar-for-dollar tariffs that he has been promising, essentially saying that he would slap an equivalent duty on goods that are imported into the United States if a country has their own tariffs on American goods.

But he has also suggested something that stops somewhat short of that, saying that this plan would be generous, that it would be something that people think would be easier potentially, than what many have expected. And when we heard from Karoline Leavitt earlier today, she wasn't able to answer a number of questions about what exactly this would look like, whether it was the number of countries that would be affected, whether this would include countries that have non-tariff trade barriers on the United States, all sorts of outstanding items that will have to be resolved before the president comes out and announces this plan on Wednesday.

One thing that advisers have made clear is that they do hope that these tariffs will raise billions of dollars in revenue for the United States, potentially in order to offset the tax cuts that the president hopes to sign into law later this year. We heard from Peter Navarro, who is one of the most hawkish trade advisers here at the White House, saying that this could potentially raise $6 trillion over the next decade, which was notable for two reasons.

One, $6 trillion is an enormous amount of money that would amount to the largest tax increase in the United States in the history of this country. But he's also projecting this out for a decade, pretty much suggesting that these tariffs that the president will announce are permanent, which is different somewhat from what other what other advisers have said, which is that these are kind of a starting point for negotiations with other countries to try and realign global trade.

So bottom line is we don't know exactly what the president plans to announce, but he does plan to announce something, and it is certain to cause shockwaves really through the global economy on Wednesday.

[15:35:04]

KINKADE: Yeah, it certainly sounds that way.

And of course, Kevin, Donald Trump is less than 100 days into his second term, but he says he's not joking when considering a third term. Is that even possible?

LIPTAK: Well, it's unconstitutional at the moment. The 22nd Amendment to the American Constitution says pretty specifically that no president can be elected to more than two terms in office. That was put into place in 1951, after FDR served four consecutive terms.

And so, what the president would have to do is essentially amend the Constitution. The bar is enormously high for that. It would require buy-in not only from state and federal officials, but also from voters. There's a question of whether voters would actually want to acquiesce to

changing this longstanding tradition.

I think the question is really whether the president is serious or not about this. We did hear from the press secretary earlier today. Listen to what she said on this topic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAVITT: You guys continue to ask the president this question about a third term, and then he answers honestly and candidly with a smile. And then everybody here melts down about his answer.

The president was -- talked about this last night on the plane. He said it's not really something we're thinking about. He has four years. There's a lot of work to do. Weve done a lot in these first 100 days. And the American people love what this president is doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So, in a lot of ways, this could be viewed as just kind of a distraction. It might be that. But I also think when you look at the president's history, there's a reason why people are taking this seriously.

This is a president who tried to cling to power after the 2020 election, who tried to overturn the results that showed Joe Biden winning that contest. And so, when you hear the press secretary say that people are melting down over this, or when you hear the president saying he doesn't want to talk any more about this, while refusing to rule out the prospect that he would try and stay in office. I think that's the reason why people are so concerned is because of the president's own track record in this very area, Lynda.

KINKADE: Yeah, exactly.

Kevin Liptak outside the White House, good to have you there for us. Thank you.

Well, today, one of President Trump's most polarizing advisers, Elon Musk, is set to make his first visit to the Central Intelligence Agency. There, he'll likely meet with the CIA director, John Ratcliffe, as he focuses on government efficiency.

A source familiar with the matter tells CNN that Ratcliffe's conversation with Musk will focus on technology and, quote, advancing the mission. Well, meanwhile, this morning on the outskirts of Rome, at least 117 Tesla cars were destroyed after a fire broke out at a dealership. The cause of that fire is still being investigated, though the Italian fire officials say they're not ruling out arson. It comes as Elon Musk's company deals with growing reports of vandalism, both here in the U.S. and in some European nations.

Well, still to come on CNN NEWSROOM, the politics of a guilty verdict. What lessons can French far right leader Marine Le Pen take from Donald Trump, now that she's effectively out of the 2027 race?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:23]

KINKADE: Well, there is anger and confusion in the world of French politics today after a stunning court verdict. Marine Le Pen, the leader of the far right National Rally Party, has been convicted of embezzlement. The verdict bars Le Pen from running in office for five years, meaning she won't be able to stand in the 2027 presidential race. And she was widely seen as a frontrunner in that contest.

Le Pen was found guilty of using European Union funds to pay employees of her party. Right wing leaders around the world have denounced the verdict, including Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who wrote on social media: I am Marine.

And Elon Musk wrote, quote, when the radical left can't win via the democratic vote, they abused the legal system to jail their opponents. This is their standard playbook throughout the world.

To help us break down the impact of all of this, we're joined by Dominic Thomas, CNNs European affairs commentator.

Good to see you.

DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Great to be here, Lynda. Thank you.

KINKADE: So, Marine Le Pen was one of many found guilty of embezzling 4 million euros. She can't run in the next election in 2027. Just take us through the reaction in Europe.

THOMAS: Well, the reaction in Europe, and then there's the reaction from -- from Marine Le Pen herself. And in many ways, they are -- they are related. They really depend on whether or not you trust the institutions of the French Republic, whether you trust and continue to believe in verdicts that are delivered by legal institutions. And there has been a concerted effort by the far right in France to undermine that particular trust.

This verdict, after months of investigations on the heels of many other political candidates in France, a former president, Nicolas Sarkozy, is currently wearing a bracelet for, similar kind of issues in a political campaign. So, I think it depends on where you situate yourself. But overwhelmingly it really sets apart those that trust the system and those who are questioning the viability of it in order to deflect from the very serious findings of the court here, Lynda.

KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. I mean, Marine Le Pen has called it a witch hunt, which, of course, is a term that was used often by Donald Trump here. And her supporters say it's politically motivated.

How could this galvanize supporters of her party?

THOMAS: Yeah, well, it's interesting. And then what we're talking about here are specifically the words of Marine Le Pen and her surrogate. She went on the main television show at 8:00 p.m. Paris time tonight and actually specifically talked about the fact that the courts are not to be trusted, that they persecute their rivals, that they are institutions of the current corrupt power establishment, and that it is ultimately up to the people to decide.

So, as you just said, this is straight out of the Trump playbook undermining these institutions and the credibility of the courts. Now, how this plays out in the broader political spectrum, there's a tremendous amount of uncertainty. You've got a very complex system with a president in power right now who does not have a parliamentary majority.

So, her party is popular. But the road to the presidency is a problematic one, because it's not a parliamentary system. It's a presidential -- semi-presidential system with two runs and a runoff stage. And she has thus far not been able to make it through to the sort of to the presidential office.

So, as we move forward here, we're not sure whether there will be an appeal. We're not sure whether she will step away and hand over the reins to the current sort of leader of the of the party, Jordan Bardella.

[15:45:01]

So there's a lot of uncertainty here moving forward, Lynda, but we can already see the sort of what the next two years will look like in terms of questioning the credibility of the system itself.

KINKADE: Yeah. And, of course, Marine Le Pen has said she will appeal this decision. What do you think she can learn from convicted felon Donald Trump, who is now U.S. president?

THOMAS: Yes. Well, I mean, once again, the motivation is there. It's about projection. It is President Trump and his surrogates that talk about the fact that, the opposition is trying to politicize the courts persecute and bully rivals.

But in fact, that's exactly and precisely what they are doing. They use the legal system and the Constitution when it suits them, and they seek to discredit them when it prevents them from moving forward. Here. Appealing for Marine Le Pen is, of course, very risky because the courts, even if they were to expedite the appeal process are most likely to come up with, the same findings. They spent a very long time, looking into the specifics of this case with the full understanding of the consequences, embezzlement of political funds leads to disqualification.

So, they knew that there would be a political outcome to this. But the motivation itself is not political. It's a celebration of a judicial system.

Moving forward, of course, the only thing they can essentially, you know, run on here is to try and appeal to a section of the electorate that is disgruntled and dissatisfied, and to see whether or not that argument will work and mobilize people to support them moving forward, Lynda.

KINKADE: Dominic Thomas, good to get your analysis as always. Thanks so much for joining us.

THOMAS: Thank you.

KINKADE: Well, still to come, they were in space for nearly 300 days, and now Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore are speaking publicly for the first time since their return to Earth. We'll have their comments, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade.

We are now hearing from NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams. They returned to Earth on March 18th on a SpaceX Crew Dragon capsule. That's after their initial mission of just a few days turned into nine months, but they were unable to return on the Boeing Starliner that took them to space. Captain Butch Wilmore says he takes responsibility for that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN BUTCH WILMORE, NASA ASTRONAUT: There were some issues, of course, that happened with Starliner.

[15:50:01]

There were some issues, of course, that happened that prevented us from returning on Starliner. And I'll start with me. There were questions that I, as a commander of

the spacecraft, that I should have asked, and I did not. At the time, I didn't know I needed to. And maybe you could call that hindsight, but I'll start and point the finger and I'll blame me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: Well, joining us now is former NASA astronaut and the former director of space operations for SpaceX, Garrett Reisman. He's also a professor of astronautical engineering at the University of Southern California.

Good to have you with us.

GARRETT REISMAN, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Good to be with you, Lynda. Thanks.

KINKADE: So, let's just start on what we just heard from the captain who said the blame -- you know, he blames himself, essentially. He said, I didn't ask. I should have asked more questions. I was commander of that spacecraft.

What did you make of that response when he was asked who to blame for being stuck, stuck up in space?

REISMAN: Yeah. You know, I think that's -- that's kind of characteristic of astronauts and people in the military. I think it's great when the person in leadership blames himself first and takes ownership and responsibility when things don't go exactly according to plan, instead of pointing the fingers at other people.

It might sound a bit odd to people's ears to hear that, because frankly, we don't hear that often from our leaders these days.

KINKADE: Yeah.

REISMAN: But I think that's, kudos to them for taking that responsibility.

KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, they spent almost ten months onboard the international space station, and it should have been about eight days. They sounded pretty grateful to be home safely and also surprised by the level of interest.

What was your main takeaway from listening to them?

REISMAN: Yeah. They definitely -- so I saw Suni a day after she landed. Just about two weeks ago and told her, you know, this is kind of a big deal down here. And she was a little surprised.

I don't think she -- she knew a little bit. And sure, Butch did, too, but I don't think the magnitude of it really got to them until they got back.

So, I think they are somewhat amused by all this and hopeful that the additional attention to spaceflight in general will be good for human spaceflight going forward.

KINKADE: Yeah, exactly. And they seem to be in good health. How long does it take when you come back from space to adjust to the Earth's gravity?

REISMAN: Well, you know, it depends. It depends on the individual. It depends on how long they've been up there. But I can tell you, even like within a day of coming back, Suni was doing great.

And you see them today. They're talking about jogging and working out in the gym. It's amazing how quickly they're bouncing back. And I think were getting really good at keeping people healthy for these types of stays up to almost a year or nine months in this case. But we've had other astronauts up there for over a year and bringing them back and getting them back on their feet based on effective countermeasures in flight and then really effective recuperation once they come home.

KINKADE: And it was interesting, Garrett, that you know, they spoke about missing their families and, you know, the expectations that they weren't going to be gone that long. But they did say that they would happily go back up, right?

REISMAN: Yeah. I think that's also typical of astronauts. We always want to go back to space. And it is really awesome up there.

So, I get that. I don't know, maybe if you ask their families, they might say something slightly different, but I get it.

KINKADE: What's the best thing about being up in space?

REISMAN: The floating. Or. When I say floating, I really mean the flying because when you push away from a solid wall and you go shooting across the space station, it's like you're Superman. It's like you have superpowers. And that's -- that's just great. I miss it.

KINKADE: Yeah. I mean, it sounds remarkable. And in this instance, you know, they went up on Starliner, but they came back on a space capsule. What does this mean for Boeing? The fact that Boeing couldn't bring them back safely.

REISMAN: Yeah. No, Boeing really wanted to complete the mission and have a successful test flight, and -- and Butch and Suni wanted that to happen. All of us wanted that to happen. It didn't happen. So it's a bit of a disappointment, and they need to figure out what caused it to go wrong, and then they need to fix those things and fly again.

But the thing is, we really need a second vehicle. NASA, the United States. We really need another way to get into space. We call it in the business dissimilar redundancy. What that means is you have a plan a, A one vehicle, but you have another vehicle that's completely different. So, if you have a problem with that plan a vehicle, you can resort to the plan B, and actually this entire episode shows us just how important that is.

And if you only have one option, you don't have these capabilities to do other things and replan if things don't go right. So, we all want Boeing to succeed, and we want Starliner fixed and flying again as soon as possible.

KINKADE: Yeah, here's hoping.

Garrett Reisman, great to have you on the program. Thanks so much for your time.

REISMAN: Happy to be here.

KINKADE: Well, space is a risky business. Take a look at this video. A German rocket crashes just seconds after takeoff.

[15:55:02]

But it's not quite the failure it may seem.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

KINKADE: Now, this is the Isar Aerospace orbital rocket. It was launched Sunday from a spaceport in Norway. It spun out and then crashed about 30s after liftoff. But Isar Aerospace says it is actually a sign of progress, as it allowed the company to gather flight data to apply to future missions.

This is the first time a rocket capable of reaching orbit has been launched from continental Europe. Incredible pictures there.

Well, thanks so much for joining me here on CNN NEWSROOM. That does it for this show. I'm Lynda Kinkade. I'll be back in a couple of hours with much more news. But coming up next is "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with our very own Richard Quest.

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