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Jamil Jaffer is Interviewed about the New Orleans Attack; Oliver Thomas is Interviewed about the New Orleans Attack; Johnson Faces Uncertain Speakership Vote. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 02, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:33:31]

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are working with our partners to investigate this as an act of terrorism. We're aggressively running down all of the leads to identify this - the possible subject's associates. We're working to ensure that there is no further threat.

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MAJU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR: All right, law enforcement entering day two of the investigation yesterday - into yesterday's deadly attack in New Orleans. The FBI calling the incident an act of terrorism. Questions are being raised about how and why the suspect was able to access the area with his vehicle.

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REP. TROY CARTER (D-LA): There are metal bollards that come up out of the ground that are supposed to prevent any oncoming vehicles from driving into the crowd. We were told today at a briefing that apparently they were not working properly. Therefore, there were vehicles that were placed in the place where the bollards would have been.

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RAJU: All right, and joining our panel now, Jamil Jaffer. He's the former counsel to the assistant attorney general for national security.

Jamil, thank you so much for joining me this morning. Really appreciate it.

JAMIL JAFFER, FORMER COUNSEL TO THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: Thanks, Manu.

RAJU: All right, so as we head into day two of this investigation, what are your big questions? What would you be focusing on right now to try to understand how this happened? JAFFER: Well, one, I think you need to figure out, how did this guy

get radicalized, right? You've got an American citizen, born in the United States, served in the military with what appears to be an honorable discharge for almost 13 years, eight years as active duty, five years as a reservist. How does he get radicalized? How does he be -- how does he get to the point where he decides to drive a car into a crowd in New Orleans, kill 15 people and have bombs in his truck in an attempt to potentially kill others?

[06:35:07]

RAJU: I mean, how prevalent do you think that is? I mean there's been this concern about lone wolf attacks in the United States. How concerned should U.S. officials be about people trying to replicate this, about other lone wolf attacks coming to the - coming forward?

JAFFER: Well, we know that's been a target of ISIS. ISIS and al Qaeda have been trying for years to recruit Americans in the United States and, frankly, Europeans in Europe to conduct attacks in their home countries, not to come to the fight in Syria or come to the fight in the Middle East, but to conduct those attacks here, to bring terror to the United States. So, it's definitely a concern.

We saw Major Nidal Hasan back in the day conducting an attack. It's another military officer. So, these are concerns that need to be addressed in figuring out, what is causing this radicalization. How can we prevent it? How can we identify it ahead of time before it ends in deadly results, like this one did?

RAJU: Because, I mean, one thing that I've been wondering about is that we've learned about - there were some videos that he apparently posted saying that he wanted to join ISIS, that he wanted to apparently kill his family. Now, CNN has not reviewed those videos, but apparently they are out there. Shouldn't that have like raised some red flags for officials or, you know, you say something like that, that's against the law to say that I want to kill my family. I mean shouldn't the - shouldn't - shouldn't have authorities been alerted to this?

JAFFER: Well, look, obviously if there - if those - the biggest (INAUDIBLE) that we hear President Biden talk about these videos on social media. I haven't seen them out there yet. But if we identify those, if you can identify them ahead of time, then of course authorities need to take action, do the investigation, see if this is a real threat, right?

At the same time, Americans are able to talk about their own political views. Now, in this case, he's talking about killing people, threatening people. That's a problem, right? But we haven't seen these videos. We've got to see what they are, see who saw them and what was identified and why we didn't catch this.

And, were there any communications that he had with folks overseas in ISIS or other groups, or is he simply watching videos online? And if so, how do we address that issue as well?

RAJU: Stephen, these have been - these lone wolf attacks have been a concern of U.S. officials for many years.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Right. FBI Director Wray has been warning about this for months, even years. Every time he goes before the Congress he says, our biggest fear is homegrown terrorism. And I think one of the concerns is not just how difficult these things are to stop. It's, when you look at the situation in Syria, the fall of the Assad government, if there's a power vacuum there and ISIS can make a comeback, then it gives people who are disaffected, who are looking for inspiration, something to latch onto. And that's going to be one of the big questions for the Trump administration coming in, do they maintain that U.S. presence in Syria, which is designed purely to stop ISIS as a way of trying to make people in the homeland safer?

RAJU: How much do you think this will impact the inauguration? I mean this is coming up on January 20th. And the transition. This is coming at - obviously, there's already been, you know, questions about how the transition would take place in this happening with just three weeks until Trump takes the office.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: I mean, I think that people will be looking at this differently. They'll have a different lens. But I do think that in Washington, for these events, the federal government leads the preparations for them. And they've been - you know, they're NSSE (ph) events. They handle the conventions, which are traditionally very safe. So, I'm not concerned about something happening here. But I do think that people are going to be taking note at different things, you know, like the Rose Bowl Parade next year and different, bigger events that are not under the federal government.

MATT GORMAN, FORMER TIM SCOTT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: And one of the things that was really interesting to me, you said earlier in the show was, it's really the last mile they're very concerned about security, right? It's rare that you're going head on against the actual event itself and some sort of attack. It's the tailgate at Taylor Swift. It's the Bourbon Street. I mean, look, we've been - like, a lot of us have been to New Orleans. We know how close the Superdome is to bourbon street. It's essentially walkable, which is rare for an arena like that and an event like that. So, it's a compact security kind of perimeter.

And so, you're right, it's not just the events themselves, but the things around them that a lot of people might go to but are in that, say, you know, I use this kind of word colloquially, hardened perimeter.

RAJU: All right. Well, the FBI is trying to determine whether a Tesla cybertruck explosion outside the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas was a terrorist act. Authorities believe fireworks, gas tanks and camping fuel were connected to a detonation system controlled by the driver, who reportedly had a military background. The driver was found dead inside the vehicle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEREMY SCHWART, FBI AGENT: As of right now, our number one goal is to ensure that we have the proper identification of the subject involved in this incident. Following that, our second objective is to determine whether this was an act of terrorism or not. I know everybody's interested in that word and trying to see if we can say, hey, this is a terrorist attack. That is our goal, and that's what we're trying to do.

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RAJU: What are your big questions here, Jamil, about what happened in Las Vegas?

JAFFER: Well, you know, we're hearing rumors this guy was - was a military officer, served for almost two decades, including the special forces. There's also a claim out there that he may have served at the same base with - with our - with our New Orleans suspect. We haven't confirmed any of that as yet.

But the question is, one, were these two attacks related? They used both - they used the same car sharing app, rented at both -

RAJU: Yes, what do you make of that?

JAFFER: Yes, you know, it just could be a bad day for that car sharing app, Turo, or it could be that there was a relationship here, right?

[06:40:04]

That the inspiration, where they got the idea from may have suggested, hey, use the - use an app like this to get a car. They both rented their cars in remote locations in - one in Texas, one in Colorado, then drove to their targets, Las Vegas and New Orleans, respectively. So, query whether there's something going on here that's a relationship. It doesn't appear so at this time, right?

RAJU: Yes.

JAFFER: It appears the attack in Vegas looks a little more political. You know, an Elon Musk Tesla vehicle with the Trump Hotel. That has a political feel to it, as the sheriff noted in his press conference. At the same time, there are these weird coincidences. Both U.S. Army officers. Both renting on the same app, same day, right? More to be seen about what's going on.

RAJU: And ISIS likes to do the coordinated attacks on the same day, right?

JAFFER: That's exactly right. This is part of their playbook. They're looking to recruit Americans. They're looking for particular kinds of targets, vulnerable individuals. We know that Shamsud-Din Jabbar, for example, had issues with divorce, potential mental health issues, money issues, right? He's vulnerable, right? And we see now how deadly that turned out.

RAJU: Yes. And there's so many more questions about that as well. Jamil, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We appreciate

your expertise.

JAFFER: Thanks, Manu.

RAJU: All right, still coming up after the break, New Orleans still reeling from yesterday's Bourbon Street attack as the city prepares to host a major college football game later today.

Plus, ten people injured after a shooting outside a Queens, New York.

And tomorrow, lawmakers set to vote on whether Mike Johnson will remain speaker of the House.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I remain undecided, as do a number of my colleagues, because we saw so many of the failures last year. I don't believe that he has the votes on Friday.

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[06:45:39]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We literally just got there. We're barely dancing, barely doing anything. You hear the screech of tires. I kid you not. Like, a real-life horror movie. Everything the car is hitting, it's getting thrown.

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RAJU: A shocked and somber New Orleans mourning this morning as the city processes yesterday's deadly Bourbon Street terror attack.

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JONATHAN CHAVE, WITNESS: The way it happened, like so, so, so fast. It was just like a big blur. It's very scary. And how it could have been me and my mother, me and my mom. Like, it's - it's just - it's just very sad.

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RAJU: New Orleans also preparing for today's postponed Sugar Bowl between Notre Dame and Georgia at the Superdome. The city's coroner has yet to identify the 15 people who were killed in yesterday's attack. But the victims' family and friends began to speak out about their loved ones. The University of Alabama confirming one of its students is among the dead.

We've also learned 27-year-old former Princeton football player Tiger Bech was killed, and 37 year old Reggie Hunter, who was remembered as a dad of two. Both Bech and Hunter texting their family members Happy New Year not long before the attack.

Joining me now is Oliver Thomas, New Orleans city council member. He also sits on the city's criminal justice committee.

Councilman, our thoughts are with you and your city on this very, very difficult day. I know you spent time at the hospital yesterday visiting, praying with the victims' families. Tell us what's happening on the ground and how the injured are doing.

OLIVER THOMAS, NEW ORLEANS CITY COUNCILMEMBER: Well, we we're waiting. We're going to get updates at the mayor's press conference and the police chief's press conference on the injured, as well as the joint task force that are working with our federal partners. We'll get that this morning.

But on the ground, we continue to assess the situation. I'm out here in the French Quarter, in the downtown area right now, just driving around looking, trying to imagine (INAUDIBLE) looks like. What could we have done different?

And we're still mourning. New Orleans is a festive city where we take pride in hosting events and honoring people. But we've been turned upside down. And yesterday, for me, was, from the emergency room to 6:00 to in the morning till late at night yesterday, it was just thinking about what could have we - not only what could we have done different, but what kind of world, Manu, do we live in? And when I think about it - right, so think about all the resources we use since 9/11 with TSA. Think about all the resources we're going to have to use now to reinvent public safety. That money could go to kids in schools. It could go to our seniors for housing.

But - so, in many cases, even if we're successful at preventing some of these events, the evil people are successful at making us redirect our finances that could go to help American citizens and help American programs. And we're putting it into security just so we can be - stay alive and be safe. That's crazy.

RAJU: Councilman, you said you were trying to figure out what the city could have done differently. What do you - what's the answer to that?

THOMAS: I don't think when you're dealing with mad men, evil people, people who are willing not only to take lives but risk their own lives, I don't (INAUDIBLE). This whole issue about - about mental health and people being programed, and we reprogramed, I think that's a real issue in the world today. But that's not just something New Orleans has to deal with. That's something that all of us have to deal with.

So, think about New Orleans, a city that's known for hosting events. Our police officers train other people around the world on how to host major events with millions of people on the street. Other cities now are looking at, how do you stop somebody from driving around a barrier, around a police - a police car to go down the sidewalk? You know what happens when they start parachuting off of - off of buildings or from balconies?

So, I mean, we're reeling right now, but we're also a strong and resilient city.

RAJU: Yes.

[06:50:02]

THOMAS: We bounced back from Katrina, Malaria, storms, floods. Nothing's going to stop our culture and our tradition. We're going to keep fighting.

RAJU: And New Orleans, as you know, is hosting the Sugar Bowl today, not to mention a number of other big events in the coming couple of months. How confident are you in the security for today's event, and what can you tell us about these extra precautions that the city is now taking in light of yesterday's tragedy?

THOMAS: Well, the joint task force, our federal partners, our state partners, and with our chief, who has been stellar, what I do know is that there's no stone unturned, no cover not being pulled back to take a look at what we can do to make - make it safer, right, and so that we can have a safe event.

Yesterday, the conversation in the briefings were about, how do we access -- what are the access points? How do you set up hard sites that people can't get through? How do you funnel pedestrian and vehicular traffic?

So, all of those things are being taken into account, and everybody is working extremely hard together. I mean, I'm just here trying to reimagine the quarter and how folk access the streets and what can we have discussions about with our partners to do something different. But, no, I mean, I am confident and, you know, I wish I could say that I'm 100 percent sure we can stop something from happening, but how can we say that anywhere in the world today, Manu?

RAJU: Yes, it's a great question. And, Councilman, we are thinking about you and, obviously, all the victims from yesterday's horrific attack. We wish you the best as you deal with these big events that are coming up, including today. Thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective about what's going on, on the ground. Really appreciate it.

THOMAS: Well, thank you.

But - but I - but I also would like you guys to think about how much money this is costing us. So even if we save lives, the evil perpetrators and the people who want to wreck our economy, we're redirecting billions and trillions of dollars to how people walk down the sidewalk or drive down the street, or how we access airports right now. At what point does the dollar amount stop the money that could be going to educate our kids, or educate people who don't have adequate housing. So, in many cases, even when we're safe, they're winning, because those are funds that we - that - that American cities and other communities could use to - to help our seniors or to help our children.

Manu, thank you, man. RAJU: Yes, it's a debate in Washington and in communities all around

the country as well about how best to use those taxpayer funds.

Councilman, again, thank you for your time. Appreciate that this morning.

And we are now 52 minutes past the hour. So here's your morning roundup.

A shooting outside a New York nightclub injuring at least ten people Wednesday. And that includes some minors. This video from the Citizen app taken in Queens. Police say four men attacked a group of 15 people in line for a private event, firing about 30 rounds, then took off in a light-colored sedan. No one is in custody at this point.

Three women are dead in Hawaii after an explosion caused by illegal fireworks. More than 20 people are also hospitalized, including three children. According to Honolulu police chief, a large New Year's firework tipped over after being lit and sparked the blast.

President Biden has revealed that 20 Americans he will honor today with the Presidential Citizens Medal, one of the highest civilian honors. And there is one notable name on that list, former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney. Biden also will award the congressman, Bennie Thompson, with the same award. Cheney and Thompson led the congressional committee that investigated the January 6th Capitol attack.

And now what do you think about that move by Biden to give Cheney a award here? Obviously, someone who has been, you know, center to Donald Trump's attacks.

COLLINSON: Yes.

RAJU: Almost, I don't know if you would say poking him in the eye, but sending a message.

COLLINSON: Certainly. And just a few days before the fourth anniversary of the January 6th attack on Congress, it will play into this increasingly tense interplay between the outgoing president and the incoming president. I think it will also lead to questions about whether this will be the only thing that the president awards to Liz Cheney. Bennie Thompson and other members of the committee, there's been talk about whether he would offer a pardon given the fact that especially Cheney has been rumored to be a target of the incoming Trump Justice Department, not - and also the Congress, the incoming Republican Congress.

RAJU: Yes. What do you think of the move?

GORMAN: I was looking at the list before the break. It's a random assortment of folks, whether it's Liz Cheney, Bennie Thompson, Chris Dodd, Carolyn McCarthy, former congresswoman.

Look, I - this might be a - seem at its face, obviously, in a word could also be a very subtle - maybe not so subtle troll of Trump. [06:55:05]

And, look, we'll see - my advice, if I'm giving advice to President Trump on this one, let this pitch pass. It would be very different, I think, if there was any sort of preemptive pardon. That way I think, you know, create a very different set of circumstances. This is some random award that I think people won't pay attention to afterwards.

RAJU: Well, Trump may pay attention to it.

GORMAN: Yes. Yes, it's very true.

RAJU: Let that pitch pass is not usually in Donald Trump's lexicon.

GORMAN: Fair. Fair.

HAYS: But also on this list are some advocates for gay rights and some other things and women's rights that the president's worked hard on in his career, including Senator Kaufman, who's been a long standing adviser, who's one of the most - greatest public servants for President Biden, and a great person that we worked for - or I worked with and for. So, you know, there are other people on this list that aren't controversial.

GORMAN: There are. There are.

RAJU: Yes, that's right. We'll see how and if Trump reacts to that. That will - will he let the pitch pass? A little skeptical.

All right, turning now to Capitol Hill, where lawmakers are returning from their holiday recess for tomorrow's big vote on Mike Johnson's speakership. Facing the narrowest house majority in nearly 100 years, the Louisiana congressman can only afford a single Republican defections if all members vote for a specific candidate. Johnson's most important ally, however, seems unworried about that.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT: I think they'll support Speaker Johnson. I think we're going to have a great time in Washington. And I think we're going to get great support. He's the one that can win right now. People like him. Almost everybody likes him.

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RAJU: Now, some of Johnson's supporters are warning that a prolonged speakership battle could delay Donald Trump's electoral victory certification. But some GOP hardliners remain defiant in their opposition.

Kentucky Congressman Thomas Massie, a Republican, telling "The Wall Street Journal," quote, "I don't know how to say this without cussing. If they thought I had no f's to give before, I definitely have no f's to give now."

My panel is back.

OK, so this is an interesting situation because you have Trump supporting Johnson. However, he has no margin for error.

GORMAN: No.

RAJU: I mean you already lost Matt Gaetz, assuming Matt Gaetz does not return tomorrow. That means there's a 219 to 215 majority. He's lost Thomas Massie. That's it. You can't lose any more. Do you think he's going to lose more?

GORMAN: I don't think so. I think they will probably - again, this is just my speculation, they'll find out a way for these folks who are ambivalent about Johnson to save face, maybe vote present, and that way Johnson can ascend. I think there's a very different tolerance in 2023, with a Democratic Senate, Democratic president. You're not going to get anything of substance done to burning the clock on what's essentially the first 100 days or 150 days of a Republican trifecta. Very different circumstances.

RAJU: But that's a - that's a practical argument that Matt is making.

GORMAN: Yes.

RAJU: But that argument does not usually - it doesn't always translate well among some members of the Congress.

HAYS: Yes, I could see people eventually voting for him. I think one or two votes will go by where they don't to make their - their point known. But I also think that this is where Republicans need to learn how to compromise, right? Like they reneged on a deal with the CR, and that can really backfire. Now, if are - they need Democratic help to get Johnson re-elected as speaker. And so I do think that this is, you know, a lesson for Trump and Musk, like, don't get involved in these fights, that there is compromise being done. And that's how they're going to get their - his agenda passed is with compromise.

RAJU: It's interesting because Trump endorsed Johnson during the campaign, during the reelection, during what - before November, said he backed him for speaker. I think even immediately after Trump won, if I recall correctly, said that he would back him for speaker. And then he let him kind of twist in the wind a little bit. Didn't like the deal that it had to be cut to keep the government open. Trump wanted - made some last minute demands that were just unable to get the votes in Congress.

But then ultimately came out and decided to endorse Johnson late. But this is a test of Trump's strength at this point, too.

COLLINSON: Definitely. I do think that Trump's endorsements are only as good as long as Trump sees the person he's endorsing as a, you know, a multiplier of his power. If there was someone else that Trump thought would be a more effective speaker, this might be a different issue. But we saw with Kevin McCarthy, what was it, 15 rounds it took to get to a speaker. That kind of circus would be an absolute disaster for Republicans. They've got unified control of government. They actually want to get some bills on Donald Trump's desk on January the 20th. They've got no time to waste whatsoever. I think later on in the year we're going to go through all of these battles. There's going to be more resentments in the caucus. Then Johnson could potentially be in trouble and expendable for Trump. But right now, they need to get going as fast as they can.

RAJU: But this just underscores how complex this is going to be to implement Donald Trump's agenda, with virtually no margin for error and ambitious agenda, they've got to deal with huge issues, like raising the debt limit. He made a promise on how they deal with the debt limit just recently. That's going to be hard to implement. And avoiding a government shutdown in March, not to mention all the things they want to do on immigration, energy and the like, taxes.

GORMAN: Well, look, the speaker fight is going to be important. What I'm also watching is, I think members are going to stay in town for at least part of this weekend to really game plan the next, you know, hundred - 60 or 60 days, 100 days. What is that first reconciliation package look like? What does a second reconciliation package look like?

[07:00:01]

And you're right, how do you factor in debt limit and government funding? And how do you - I think for Republicans get quick wins on the board that can unify the caucus to get some momentum behind.

HAYS: And you're going to need the Democrats. So, it's not quite the mandate that Donald Trump was talking about when - in November.

GORMAN: I don't know about that.

RAJU: We'll see how the Democrats -

HAYS: A mandate of one.

RAJU: The Democrats may sit back and just watch it all happen.

HAYS: They should.

RAJU: We're going to see what they do.

All right, thanks to our panel. Thank you for joining us. I'm Manu Raju. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.