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Hegseth Endures Contentious Confirmation Hearing; House Passes Bill to Ban Trans Athletes from Women's Sports. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired January 15, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Wednesday, January 15. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING.
[05:59:15]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, NOMINEE FOR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Anonymous smears.
All anonymous, all false, all refuted by my colleagues.
All I'm pointing out is the false claims against me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: A heated hearing. The dodged questions, the fierce pushback. But Pete Hegseth thrown a lifeline from a key senator.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, NOMINEE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Department of Justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Next in the spotlight, the president-elect's pick for attorney general, a Trump loyalist who, if confirmed, will shape his Justice Department.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): This is a great day for women in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: An uncertain future. A bill banning transgender athletes in women's and girls' sports passes in the House. Where will it go in the Senate?
And then later --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remain alert, as danger has not yet passed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: A dire warning as another round of fierce winds hits Southern California. and firefighters battle to control deadly wildfires.
All right. Just a few seconds before 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. A live look at Capitol Hill, the site of all the action here today in Washington.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.
Hegseth in the hot seat. Democrats get their first chance to question one of Donald Trump's cabinet nominees, and it went about as you'd expect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): Are you saying that you would stand in the breach and push back if you were given an illegal order?
HEGSETH: I start by saying I reject the premise that President Trump --
SLOTKIN: I understand. You've done your genuflecting to him.
HEGSETH: -- will be giving any illegal orders.
SEN. KRISTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): You can not denigrate women in general, and your statements do that. "We don't want women in the military, especially in combat." What a terrible statement, so please do not deny that you made those statements. You have.
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Another colleague, not anonymous -- we have this -- said that you took coworkers to a strip club. You were drunk. You tried to dance with strippers. You had to be held off the stage.
SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): Yes, or no? Have you led an audit of any organization of which you were in charge?
HEGSETH: Senator, in both of the organizations I ran, we were always completely fiscally responsible.
DUCKWORTH: Yes, or no? Did you lead an audit?
HEGSETH: And the way that the issue has been stated --
DUCKWORTH: Yes, or no? Did you lead an audit? Yes, or no?
HEGSETH: -- has been completely mischaracterized.
DUCKWORTH: What are you afraid of? You can't answer this question. Yes, or no? Did you lead an audit? Do you not know this answer? HEGSETH: Ranking Member Reed --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Senate Democrats threw everything they could at the Army veteran and former FOX News host Pete Hegseth, the president-elect's choice for secretary of defense.
In an earlier age, the allegations thrown at him -- sexual misconduct, excessive drinking, financial mismanagement -- might have been enough to keep him out of the job. But this is the Trump era, and Hegseth denied all of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: A small handful of anonymous sources were allowed to drive a smear campaign. I was falsely charged. Those were false charges. Those are all anonymous false claims.
Anonymous smears, anonymous smears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You passed out in the back of a party bus. Is that true or false?
HEGSETH: Anonymous smears.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The performance reportedly passed muster with the president- elect's team, multiple sources telling CNN that transition officials were reassured by the warm reception Republicans gave him on the committee.
And so, despite it all, Hegseth's confirmation to lead the Pentagon seems all but assured.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he have your vote?
SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): I am breaking news, Simon. I figured you would ask this. So yes, I will be supporting President Trump's pick for secretary of defense.
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): I know there was [SIC] a couple other Republicans that was [SIC] looking at the way she was going to go, that they were going to follow her lead. I think with her saying, absolutely yes, she's going to support him now, all but confirms his ability to -- to be the next secretary of defense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining us now to discuss: Annie Linskey, White House reporter for "The Wall Street Journal." Zolan Kanno-Youngs. He's a CNN political analyst and a White House correspondent for "The New York Times." Meghan Hays, Democratic strategist, former director of message planning for the Biden White House. And Matt Gorman, Republican strategist and former senior adviser to Tim Scott's presidential campaign.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
Annie Linskey, let me actually start with you, because "The Wall Street Journal," the paper that you write for -- this is the opinion page. You do not write for the opinion page. But it was interesting.
They're pretty skeptical about Pete Hegseth. They say that -- they called it "the Senate, the world's most non-deliberative body," and they say that his real views are now a mystery. And they say, let's hope he rises to the occasion.
I was struck yesterday by the fact that he struggled to answer some relatively basic questions about some of the big issues that he'll have to deal with, grapple with as secretary of defense.
You know, he could answer what caliber bullet goes into a sidearm that a soldier carries, and he emphasized that part of his biography. But this is not someone who, in an earlier era, might have won confirmation to this post. And yet, here we are.
ANNIE LINSKEY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Yes, yes. I think, look, when you think about that hearing, the audience really wasn't, you know, the -- you know, the country writ large. It was really focused on a few senators and, in particular, Joni Ernst, the Republican from Iowa, who came out of the hearing saying exactly what the Trump team and his supporters wanted her to say, which is that she was feeling that he -- she didn't hear anything that was disqualifying in his responses and was going to vote for him and support him going forward.
The other thing that I think was really interesting coming out of the hearing was a tweet from Elon Musk, saying that he was 100 percent in support of calls to -- on the Republicans, to primary anyone who is going to vote against him.
And that's a sort of organization on the outside that the Trump team has pulled together and is going to all but -- you know, it makes it a very -- a much smoother ride for Hegseth. And many Republicans have been saying this for a while, particularly even on your show yesterday.
[06:05:12]
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, when it comes to this hearing, I think one of the takeaways would be that actually, the actions, to Annie's point, that happened outside of the confirmation hearing, in the days before the confirmation hearing, would be some of the more influential actions when it comes to this process.
By that we mean outside of Philly, outside groups that are affiliated with the president-elect, spending money on buying ads in Ernst's home district. You know, allies also threatening her with primaries, too, if she didn't come along. That sort of pressure outside of the hearing, that -- that may be
something that we have to watch moving forward.
HUNT: And this was December 10. Matt Gorman, Marc Caputo reports in "The Bulwark" that, as Joni Ernst was publicly exploring her issues with this, it didn't take her long for her to realize that she had stepped in it. "Shortly after, Ernst offered a chilly reception to the nomination to head the Defense Department, she recognized she was in trouble politically, with grassroots Republicans calling for her head. 'How do I make this go away?' a flabbergasted Ernst said to an intermediary, according to a top Donald Trump adviser who received the message."
This is how she makes it go away.
MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I think the interesting part about this was, again, the day before December 9th, she met with Hegseth and released a statement to that effect saying all but yes, she would vote for him.
She -- she relayed that the concerns she had had for -- about the month or so prior were relieved. I think in that month or so prior, she kind of didn't articulate an exact concern. In that meeting with Hegseth, she did.
And I guess what -- you know, Zolan made a good point. What this really reminds me of, if you close your eyes, you would have thought this was a Supreme Court hearing, right? Outside affiliated groups, spending really with, by the time of the confirmation, the only thing is a few senators and -- and the actual hearing itself. You have Democrats trying to get under the skin, trying to really get the person off their talking points.
And the -- the Republican nominee or the, you know, the Supreme Court nominee trying to be boring, not have any moments that would go off- script, stick to the script. And it worked.
HUNT: And speaking of Supreme Court hearings, Meghan, one of the things that we also heard in this more critical period back in early December for Hegseth was there was reporting in "The New Yorker" that came under the byline of Jane Mayer, who Republicans really turned on in the wake of what she did all the Kavanaugh reporting.
And -- excuse me -- that was a moment that seemed to coalesce Republicans around Hegseth. And this background check was conducted differently.
I mean, the FBI reportedly did not speak to the woman who is the subject of the NDA, who was, you know, paid -- settled with Pete Hegseth after the allegation of sexual assault.
Roger Wicker, the chairman, came out afterward and said he understood that he wasn't sure she wanted to talk to the committee. And of course, I mean, the experience that Christine Blasey Ford had with Kavanaugh had to have been weighing there. MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING FOR BIDEN WHITE
HOUSE: Yes, I think, you know, look, the way these hearings have been done and the way that the background checks have been done has not been acceptable, I think, to the American people.
I think the Democrats are doing the best that they can, knowing that they cannot really stop his confirmation and doing the best they can to bring some of this stuff to light. Like you heard, you know, Senator Gillibrand doing that.
You heard, some, you know, Elissa Slotkin doing the same thing and doing that what they can here to make the best of it.
But to your point -- and we talked about this on Monday -- he is a media personality. He was very good at keeping his cool and doing -- and being right on his talking points and not letting it get under his skin.
Less trained people in media would not have been able to do that. And Donald Trump is not dumb. He knows that this is an optics game, and he is playing to the optics here.
HUNT: The continual interrupting of the senators stood out to me, as someone who has watched a lot of senators get interrupted and be very unhappy about it, I think speaks to the point that you're making.
All right. Coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING, today, we've got a packed schedule on the Hill as more of Donald Trump's cabinet picks sit for their hearings.
Former defense secretary for the Trump administration, Mark Esper, will be here to discuss.
Plus, Republicans in the House getting Democratic support for their ban on transgender athletes in women's and girls' sports. That's unlikely to happen in the Senate. We'll explore.
And powerful winds causing dangerous conditions for firefighters in California today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Imagine if you're driving down the freeway at 70 miles an hour. You stick your hand out flat and have the wind press against that. That is the wind that's happening from Ventura to Northern L.A.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:13:49]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: Joe says he'll build back better. Yes. Build the Bidens back better.
Winning this election means reclaiming something to which I've dedicated my entire career. The rule of law.
It is time to stand up and say in a loud, clear voice, "Enough." It is time for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Pam Bondi, President-elect Donald Trump's nominee to lead the Justice Department, will face questions on Capitol Hill in just a few hours. Her confirmation hearing, one of six happening today for Trump's cabinet picks.
Bondi has been a familiar face in Trump's orbit. The former Florida attorney general was part of his defense team during his first impeachment trial, and she supported his claims of fraud over the 2020 election.
Bondi has frequently criticized the legal cases against Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: The Department of Justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted. The bad ones. The investigators will be investigated. Because the deep state last term for President Trump, they were hiding in the shadows. But now they have a spotlight on them, and they can all be investigated. And the House needs to be cleaned out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[06:15:04]
HUNT: Matt Gorman, you saw her there. I mean, I remember she was flying all over the place on the Romney plane back in 2012.
GORMAN: Yes. She was a great surrogate.
HUNT: And suddenly she's, you know, right there with -- in Trump's orbit. It's a little bit head spinning, but she clearly does not -- in some ways, Matt Gaetz was the heat shield for --
GORMAN: Yes.
HUNT: Not just for her, but for a lot of these Trump nominees.
GORMAN: Absolutely. Look, it made it so much easier for people to get through, right?
And look, Pam is really good, as you saw, in the media. I think she's going to have a very successful hearing today. She knows much in the mold of Hegseth. Sean Duffy today as well. They know how to kind of work their way around tough questions. Give it, you know, either, you know, answers that seem substantive but might, you know, avoid the question if it's a thorny topic, which is -- I say that as a compliment. And I think -- I think it will be fine. I think it will be unmemorable today. And I was actually surprised about, too, "Washington Post" endorsed her nomination, which -- which kind of surprised me. And --
HUNT: In the -- in the new world, does it? You know?
GORMAN: Check. Yes, yes, yes. But yes.
HUNT: Meghan Hays, for Democrats -- I mean, that that soundbite that we played of Pam Bondi has come into very sharp focus, because this question of prosecuting the prosecutors, right?
Jack Smith just put out a letter yesterday, kind of staunchly defending the investigation. He did the charges that he brought against the president-elect, Donald Trump, in the wake of January 6th.
What -- what do you expect to see today from Democrats?
HAYS: I mean, I think they're going to do the same thing that they are trying to do in the Hegseth. They're trying to make it political. They're trying to say that she's more of a political figure out there.
But I just don't think it's -- it's going to be less fireworks than the Hegseth hearing, which was not a lot. So, I think, you know, they're going to try to bring that to light, but I'm not sure that they're going to be very successful here.
I think that she -- you don't see -- you didn't see Merrick Garland flying around with Joe Biden on the campaign. You didn't -- you know, that's not -- that's not normally something you would see attorney generals doing. These are supposed to be nonpolitical offices.
And it's -- clearly, she is inherently political. And I think that they will try to make a lot of that.
HUNT: Yes. All right.
Coming up next here, a major GOP campaign issue, now one of the top priorities in the new Congress. The House voting to ban transgender athletes from women's and girls' sports. So, what happens next?
Plus, Governor Gavin Newsom hitting back after the criticism surrounding his handling of the wildfire disaster in California.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:21:39]
HUNT: All right, welcome back.
A ban on transgender athletes in women's and girls' sports is headed to the Senate after all Republicans and two Democrats voted to pass it in the House.
The GOP-led bill would affect sports at federally funded schools. Transgender issues were front and center in the 2024 election cycle,
coming up in ads and competitive races across the country. House Speaker Mike Johnson, celebrating the bill's passage as a, quote, "great day for women in America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: House Republicans have yet again stood up for women. This is a commitment that we have made, because it comports with what is right and what is common sense.
It's a matter of biology. It's how we're made. And if we try to ignore that or to undo it, we do so at our peril and to the detriment of our daughters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, Annie Linskey, this obviously became a focal point in the campaign. One of the -- you know, it -- it's a messaging bill, right? It's the fact that it came out so early in this Congress shows you that Republicans really want to capitalize on this.
But two Democrats did vote for it, because I think they saw this as something that did move votes. Yes.
LINSKEY: I mean, I think this is a moment that Republicans are trying to elevate this issue. It's an issue they can be unified around in a caucus that -- where they really can't lose votes.
So, it's -- it makes sense as a place for them to start. And to your point, you have two Democrats who joined Republicans. And I think that just shows you the power that, you know -- that you know, elections are very clarifying.
And there are a lot of Democrats who feel that the Harris campaign did a very bad job on this issue and are trying to stake out a new position, and that's what you're going to see.
GORMAN: I'm surprised. I mean, the only two people who voted against it, and there's 13 Democrats in the House who are -- represent Trump- won districts.
And look, I think -- we saw this during the campaign. Republicans feel that this is something you can go to the American people on, and they feel that they can press this issue very, very well; that Democrats are trying to tell the American people by having kind of women in -- I'm sorry, men in women's sports, essentially, that one plus one equals three, right?
And it's very easy for them to push this sort of issue.
And I think they're I would expect Trump to -- to be willing to sign it. It's a matter of whether they can get 60 votes in the Senate. I think this is a big thing.
HUNT: Yes. Look, I do think it's -- it's worth noting that we're talking about a very small number of people here that are -- that are being addressed by this.
I mean, the Republican governor of Utah, once governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, has sort of talked about this in an eloquent way.
But eloquence not always the order of the day when it comes to how people talk about this issue.
Let's watch a moment that played out in a hearing on the Hill on this. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): We're talking about civil rights coming from a party that can't define what a woman is and won't give women the right to privacy.
You all want men with penises, chicks with (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in the bathroom with us.
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): She going to keep saying, "Trans, trans, trans," so that people will feel threatened. And child, listen, I want you to --
MACE: I am no child. Do not call me a child. I am no child. Don't even start out.
CROCKETT: I want to find out --
MACE: I'm a grown woman.
CROCKETT: Which of those emails actually have --
MACE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Order, please.
CROCKETT: Chairman, I'm reclaiming my time.
MACE: You will not do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Order.
MACE: You are not a child.
CROCKETT: I am reclaiming my time. If you want to take it outside --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That, of course, Meghan Hays, is Nancy Mace who has made quite the effort to be front and center on this, shall we say. What is this?
[06:25:08]
HAYS: I mean, well, one, they shouldn't be fighting like that. These are members of Congress that are electing -- or that are elected to represent the American people. So, that is gross in its own display on both sides of the aisle there.
But I do think this is going to be the Achilles heel for Democrats. This has been made to be an issue that Democrats, writ large, care more about trans issues that do impact such a small percentage of people, than they care about their cost of groceries.
It was very wide known in the election that that was one of the issues. And -- and that the ad that played. This is going to be the Achilles heel.
So, if Democrats do not learn how to speak about this, they will continue to lose ground on this, regardless of how many people it impacts.
KANNO-YOUNGS: And they didn't speak about it during the election. They were essentially muted.
It does seem like part of this, looking at that clip, is about stoking divisions and sort of anger in the country when, to your point, 510,000 NCAA athletes, ten identifying as transgender.
This also isn't the first time we've seen this bill. Republicans tried this last year. Last year alone passed 80 -- or excuse me, put forward 87 bills that had to do with this topic.
So, you see them trying to elevate this focus here. While on the other side, Democrats haven't figured out really any message, you know.
HUNT: Well, I mean, you had the challenge right. The ad said Kamala is for "they/them." Donald Trump is for you. When you juxtapose it that way, is that how -- why that worked so effectively?
KANNO-YOUNGS: Well, I mean, I have talked to strategists who have said that it was about sort of saying Democrats care about this population and aren't working for sort of you that have come out for the party.
But at the same time, also, we did start to see -- it's interesting to start to see sort of the ripple effects from the election, as well, on Democratic messaging.
Even in the defense -- or, excuse me, the pushback of this bill among many Democrats yesterday, you did not hear much of a message that centered on trans rights. It was about invasion of privacy for little girls, as well. That's -- that's a shift itself.
GORMAN: That's -- that's always the key to this, right, is that Democrats are very -- far more concerned about talking to this slice of the electorate and that slice of the electorate, and making sure that every subgroup feels catered to and named, as opposed to kind of normal people. And majority of the public sees this like -- it doesn't work here.
You know, I think it -- I think it's very plain-spoken way of putting that. Just -- there's a disconnect there.
KANNO-YOUNGS: I do think it's worth noting one more thing to that. There are also activists representing the trans community, too, that do feel like one party is not speaking on their behalf, and that they're sort of caught in the middle of a political fight here.
And there are real people behind this, as well, that are watching this and probably pretty scared and alarmed at this point.
HUNT: All right. Coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING, the defense secretary nominee, Pete Hegseth, grilled by senators. We're going to talk about his prospects with the former Pentagon secretary, Mark Esper.
Plus, how communities are pulling together in Los Angeles in the face of unimaginable loss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still surreal. We lost everything.
We lost our home. We lost our school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[06:30:00]
