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Senators Grill Pam Bondi At AG Confirmation Hearing; Crews Making Progress But Winds And Hot Spots Still A Threat; Ban On Popular App TikTok Could Hit The U.S. In Just Days. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired January 16, 2025 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: You've worked with her in the state of Florida across party lines.

What did you make of what she had to say yesterday, especially around this question of who won the 2020 election -- because we're still doing that, right?

DAVE ARONBERG, FORMER STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA: Kasie --

HUNT: -- because we're still doing that, right?

ARONBERG: Yeah. I thought overall she did very well. I think you could tell that she had the votes because they were more concerned with Kash Patel than Pam Bondi.

And as far as the election denialism -- you know, she actually went farther to say it was a fair election than others have been in Trump's orbit, saying that she accepts the 2020 election results. She refused to use the word "fraud" when she said that when she was in Pennsylvania she saw some things.

So remember, Trump's not going to appoint someone who is going to contradict his election fraud claims. So I think Pam Bondi went as far as an attorney general nominee by Trump can go.

HUNT: Dave, let's talk for a second about the question of January -- pardons for January 6 rioters. Senator Thom Tillis yesterday on the Hill had this to say about that question. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I find it hard to believe that the President of the United States or you would look at facts that were used to convict the violent people on January the sixth and say it was just an intemperate moment. That -- I don't even expect you to respond to that. But I think it's an absurd and unfair hypothetical here and you probably haven't heard the last of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: What -- that comment he -- Tillis is in an interesting position. He is going to be up for re-election in a -- basically a purple state. He's basically saying well, you're not going to do this. But there does seem to be this question hanging out there about how far they'll go with pardons for January 6 rioters.

ARONBERG: Trump has promised pardons for the January 6 rioters. The question is will he pardon the violent ones -- the ones who attacked police. You can't say you back the blue and then pardon people who committed violence against police officers. So Pam Bondi made it clear that she did not support that. She did not support anything to do to help people who had violent acts committed against police officers.

Now, whether she'll go along with President Trump's pardons is another thing. I think there's going to be a demarcation between the violent ones and the ones who were trespassing and who were charged with being inside the building. But we shall see because that was not a tourist event that day. That was an attempted insurrection.

HUNT: Yeah, I know. I was -- I was there. So it was not -- they were not tourists.

Dave, let's talk about Bondi the person for a second. One of the other focuses of this hearing was asking about an "enemies list." She said she would not have an enemies list. But you know her personally. We also -- we know that Donald Trump himself takes these things very personally --

ARONBERG: Um-hum.

HUNT: -- right? He often is vindictive in how he acts towards things.

What is Pam Bondi actually like in that regard? Is that something that comes naturally to her? I mean, we've also seen Kash Patel kind of talk about the deep state in a very impassioned way.

ARONBERG: Yeah.

HUNT: He clearly feels kind of personally attacked by it in many ways.

What's Pam Bondi like in this regard?

ARONBERG: She is a people person. She has the love of the people in her office because she has their backs at all times. She's very warm. She has a big heart.

She is not super partisan. That's the thing that differentiates herself, I think, from Matt Gaetz and others.

She hired me even though I ran against her. I ran as a Democrat for attorney general in 2010. I lost in the primary and then I endorsed the Democrat who beat me. And then she still hired me, and we went after the pill mills -- the opioid epidemic together. She took a lot of grief for it. So I do think that she's the best choice that the Democrats could ask for in this situation because Sally Yates ain't walking through that door. And so I think Democrats should pick their battles because there are bigger fights ahead, like Tulsi Gabbard and others.

HUNT: Really interesting.

Dave Aronberg, thanks very much for being here.

ARONBERG: Thank you, Kasie.

HUNT: Good luck with your testimony today.

ARONBERG: Thank you.

HUNT: See you soon.

All right, let's turn back now to this. As a new president prepares to come into power, President Biden defending his term in office and America's system of government as he gets ready to depart after a political career that has spanned more than 50 years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our system of separation of powers, checks and balances -- it may not be perfect, but it's maintained our democracy for nearly 250 years -- longer than any other nation in history that's ever tried such a bold experiment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: My next guest is the author of the new book "In Defense of Partisanship." And in it he writes this. "By the close of the twentieth century, partisan politics was ascendant in the electorate and in the organization of Congress. The reforms of the 1970s had built the organizational infrastructure for centralized parties to dominate the business of legislative politics. Demographic shifts produced electoral conditions where the incentives were in place for party leaders to use their new tools."

And joining us now is the author of that book, "In Defense of Partisanship," Julian Zelizer. He's a CNN political analyst and professor at Princeton University. Julian, welcome to you.

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, HISTORIAN AND PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY, AUTHOR, "IN DEFENSE OF PARTISANSHIP": Thank you.

HUNT: So you are obviously defending partisanship here, which is kind of like -- isn't this like an unpopular opinion at the moment?

[05:35:00]

ZELIZER: Yes.

HUNT: Explain why you think this is good for America. ZELIZER: Well, I try to argue that parties have been very important in American history. They organize differences through the political system. They generate big ideas at moments, like the 1930s or even in the 1980s. And they're the best way to work through our disjointed and kind of broken system of political power.

I differentiate hyperpartisanship, which we have now, from responsible partisanship where parties are strong. They fight for what they want but they abide by guardrails.

HUNT: Yeah. So the era of hyperpartisanship -- what does that contribute because, I mean, we have seen so much of that lately?

ZELIZER: Well, it still reflects real differences in the electorate, and I don't think we should discount that. And it's better if they are fought through the system rather than what we see at a time like January 6 where it goes beyond the Constitution. And there's still a big value and I don't think these are unnatural divisions. So there's still an important role that they're playing.

But I do set out a set of reforms to try to curb the worst accesses and the most dangerous accesses of the system today.

HUNT: I think one of the things that I thought about as I was paging through this is this question. I mean, you know, you talk about January 6, right?

My question had been -- and I covered every day of the Trump administration from Capitol Hill. The difference between loyalty to a person in Donald Trump is what animated many of the people that showed up on January 6, and that it struck me that maybe the issue is that -- and a lot of Democrats would even say this on the Hill at the time -- that the Republican Party was not strong. The party itself was weak and that was what created the opportunity for something like this to happen.

Do you agree with that analysis or not?

ZELIZER: No, I don't. I think the Republican Party has been very clear they are united with President-elect Trump. They were during the first term. Without that kind of protection and without that kind of support from the broad party the president wouldn't have had the power that he did, and he wouldn't have been re-elected.

So I think that discounts how much support there is within the GOP. And I think we often exaggerate the opposition within the GOP. I think there's a convergence of Trumpism, of Republicanism. They are one in the same and this has been developing for decades. It's not simply about Trump. It's about a new Republican Party that he fits very well within.

HUNT: So what do you say to people who look at our politics and say you know what, most people -- they're not actually all that partisan? They're pretty middle of the road, you know? They may not have all of the same views. Oftentimes now Democrats -- if you're going to be in the party, they

want you to have a certain set of -- way of looking at Gaza, and abortion, and all these -- you know, all of the issues stacked up, right? Whereas people may have more of a mix.

Why do you think -- you write in the book that you don't think that governing that way works. Why?

ZELIZER: Well, it hasn't worked that way since the founding. The founders always imagined we can move to this kind of unity, and they didn't want parties, and we have had parties literally from day one through today.

So even with those commonalities when it comes to actually fighting over the specifics, meaning not broad areas of agreement but what do we do on reproductive rights, what do we do on voting rights, what do we do on economic or foreign policy, then the differences start to emerge. And for those who are actually engaged in the deliberations there's not always as much gray as we hope.

So I just think that reflects the reality of a nation that's often very divisive. And we need a way to deal with that, and parties have been the best way to do that.

HUNT: So, President Biden obviously is departing the stage. He had a really remarkable experience with his own party --

ZELIZER: Um-hum.

HUNT: -- where they basically defenestrated him, right, from the top of their presidential ticket with just 107 days to go.

How surprised were you in watching how that played out?

ZELIZER: I was surprised. I mean, surprised watching the debate, like everyone was, to see the performance. But then I didn't know if the party would react. I mean, I didn't know if they would take the path of the party that rallies around a weaker candidate and tries to elevate that candidate to victory.

HUNT: That's what they had done for basically a year-plus, right?

ZELIZER: And that's what they had done. But they shifted very quickly. I think I wasn't totally surprised because the sense of desperation about what the stakes were were great enough that this wasn't an ordinary election for Democrats. So when they made that decision there was a logic to the unprecedented nature of what happened.

HUNT: Um-hum.

All right, Julian Zelizer. Thanks very much for being with us today.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

HUNT: I appreciate your expertise. ZELIZER: Thank you.

HUNT: And again, the book is "In Defense of Partisanship." You can get your copy now.

All right. Coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING the Israeli cabinet delays voting on the ceasefire agreement with Hamas, but Hamas says they're still committed to the deal. We'll talk about that new hiccup overnight.

[05:40:00]

Plus, a big night of highlights across the NBA. We'll bring it all to you in our CNN sports update.

(COMMERCIAL)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF KRISTIN CROWLEY, LOS ANGELES FIRE DEPARTMENT: We understand your desire to return to your community. However, significant safety and infrastructure issues remain, including downed power lines, broken gas lines, hazardous materials, and unsafe water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Authorities in Southern California are telling residents not to remove or clean up fire debris until a hazardous materials inspection is complete.

[05:45:00]

Red flag fire warnings set to expire in the coming hours as cooler temperatures and more humid air move in over the weekend. Firefighters hope that will help them get greater containment of the wildfires that have ravaged the area for more than a week. They are claiming tremendous progress, but they warn that smoldering hot spots do remain a danger.

The Black community in Altadena, California has been especially hard hit by the fires. CNN's Nick Watt has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Momma D, can you hear me? Momma D?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): They called in vain. Dalyce Curry, known as Momma D, is dead -- age 95. Also dead Rodney Nickerson. Been here since '68.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son tried to get him to leave, and my neighbors and myself, and he said he'll be fine. I'll be here when you guys come back.

WATT (voiceover): A multicultural community that took 50 years to build ripped apart in just hours. WATT: Katherine, you've been here since 1972?

KATHERINE ANDERSON, ALTADENA, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: I put down $300 and I bought my home on McNally. If you want me to say it, I will.

WATT: Say it.

ANDERSON: It was call "White Flight." And they moved out of the neighborhood and the Black people were able to buy homes, and they've been there ever since until the fire destroyed everything.

PASTOR VESTER PITTMAN, LOST HOME IN ALTADENA, CALIFORNIA: It's a large Black population but it's not all Black, man. It's mixed. I know people from every race that lives there and they're happy and they get along. It's nice. It's almost a perfect community.

WATT (voiceover): Donny Kincey filmed its destruction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm really afraid to see what's going to happen to my neighbors and, you know, who is going to stick around after this.

WATT (voiceover): Brian Perry, a middle school principal, moved here for community.

BRIAN PERRY, LOST HOM IN ALTADENA, CALIFORNIA: It was, to me, the ideal place to raise my son because he got to be around people who were like him, people who weren't like him.

WATT (voiceover): Nearly eight in 10 residents own their own homes. It's a rooted community in what can feel like a transient city.

WATT: Is this community going to lose that?

PERRY: I mean, that's a danger. A lot of the people who live in Altadena -- we're working class people, you know. We're not the rich celebrities. We don't have, like, the ability to just go back in.

WATT (voiceover): Fire can destroy more than the tangible. Fire can destroy community. The people of Altadena are determined that won't happen here.

PITTMAN: Restoration is going to happen because of the people.

ANDERSON: I lost everything that I had in that fire. We left with just the clothes on our back. I ask God for 10 more years to see my daughter rebuild her home, yes.

WATT: Behind me used to be Rosebud Academy. In the past hour or so we've seen search and rescue firefighters coming through doing a final sweep looking for human remains.

What happens to this school? Where do the kids go? Do they go to other schools? Do they meet in church halls? They have no school supplies. And for kids, community largely revolves around school.

Nick Watt, CNN, Altadena, California. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HUNT: That's such a good point. The schools, in particular, really difficult. Our thanks to Nick Watt for that story.

All right, let's turn now to this. The clock ticking for TikTok. It's China-based owner ByteDance has just three days before the popular app is banned in the U.S. That is, of course, unless the Supreme Court intervenes, or they decide to sell the app off.

Sources tell CNN that President-elect Trump is now considering an executive order that would delay the ban until a new owner could be found.

As the deadline approaches, ByteDance has been building its presence even further in the United States not just through quick social media videos but as a source for shopping.

CNN's Marc Stewart has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Merchandise is moving at this Beijing toy shop. Owner Wang Guifeng has made a business selling model cars not just from her storefront. We followed along as she used the popular Chinese social media app Douyin to livestream and sell her toys.

STEWART: I'm watching on the phone as she's streaming. If there is a product I like, I just touch the screen. It takes me to a payment system. It's that easy.

STEWART (voiceover): Douyin is China's version of TikTok, also owned by Chinese tech giant ByteDance. It's a place for entertainment and an e-commerce hotspot in China with similar ambitions in America.

Wong feels it should be open to everyone and says it's a pity the U.S. is banning the app. It's been a gamechanger for her business.

WANG GUIFENG, OWNER (through translator): Because of Douyin, I make money both online and offline. It's great.

STEWART (voiceover): Along with millions of other sellers she can instantly chat with customers and build a personal relationship -- a feature gaining popularity in the U.S. but already common in China.

[05:50:05]

DAN IVES, MANAGING DIRECTOR, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: It's very advanced in terms of the e-commerce platform. It's a one-stop shop. And that's what makes it so attractive.

STEWART (voiceover): ByteDance is already pushing this new way of shopping in the U.S. Introduced in 2023, a similar setup, TikTok Shop, brought in $100 million in single-day sales this past Black Friday. While TikTok Shop is still a pioneer its sister app Douyin is already a force, ranked number four in 2023 among all e-commerce platforms in China, selling more than $300 billion worth of merchandise, according to an industry report.

IVES: If you look what they did in China, the goal is that they can mirror that in the U.S.

STEWART (voiceover): That's if a ban doesn't get in the way. In China it's already something businesses rely upon.

GUIFENG (through translator): Without this platform I don't know if my store would still exist.

STEWART (voiceover): A tech tool whose fate in America is now with the Supreme Court.

Marc Stewart, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HUNT: All right, time now for sports. It was a rough night at the office for the reigning NBA Rookie of the Year.

Coy Wire has the latest in this morning's CNN sports update. Coy, good morning.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Good morning, Kasie.

Yes, it was a rough night. There were some ups, but this is one of the youngest, most talented, and tallest players in the league -- seven- foot-three, 21-year-old Victor Wembanyama. He set a Spurs franchise record Kasie -- eight blocks in a half against the Grizzlies.

Now let's go to the downer. Seven-foot-four Grizzlies center Zach Edey throwing down a monster dunk on the reigning Rookie of the Year in a 129-115 win.

Then Memphis high flyer Ja Morant tells Edey hold my beer. Oh, this dunk on Wemby, one of the greatest of all time. But Kasie, it didn't count. The whistle blew. So some are on the interweb saying that doesn't count as getting dunked on. He didn't even touch the rim. Others are saying oh, it counts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JA MORANT, GUARD, MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES: I kept going on with the play because normally I don't hear no whistle when I drive to the rack or anything, so --

REPORTER: All right. But when you saw him and you saw the other person at the rim?

MORANT: I dunked on plenty of people, bro. He don't get no pass either.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WIRE: The Clippers laid out an absolute beatdown for the ages on the Nets, winning 126-67. It's the 10th largest margin of victory in the history of the NBA and a team record for largest margin of victory. The 59-point win comes despite Clippers coach Tyronn Lue benching his starters late in the third.

All right, cuteness overload. LeBron James finished with 22 points in the Lakers 117-108 win over the Heat. And just his presence made this young kid wearing his jersey burst into tears. After the game, LeBron surprised her by giving her a wristband, then got a little usey (PH) together with her.

Here's LeBron.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, FORWARD, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: And I saw her at halftime. A family friend sent the clip and was like man, I didn't know you had this type of impact on people. So, yeah, I made sure I acknowledged her in the second half. And, I mean, when you've people like that cheering you on that brings a little bit more excitement. So she's a wonderful little girl and she's over there climbing around right now. It was special for me and very humbling that I have that type of impact on people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: All right, most adorable video of the day, Kasie. Radford hosting Gardner-Webb and it's interrupted when a young fan decides to get in on the action, scampering, ducking, and dodging on the court until Radford's Truth Harris says you know what? Come here, youngster. He picks up the little court invader and takes him to the sideline.

Radford coach Darris Nichols said that he looked at the ref and was like, dude, don't give me a technical foul for this, please.

They were up three with just a minute to go and this youngster just wreaks havoc on the court.

Kasie, those of us with kids know, like, we all have that one kid.

HUNT: Oh, my -- that's totally my son, 100 percent --

WIRE: He is.

HUNT: -- at that age. Like, forget it. Like, zero shame or concern.

WIRE: Yes.

HUNT: And I would be over there, like, bright red in the stands.

WIRE: Absolutely. And listen, Radford's actually got a decent team. They have a chance to make the NCAA Tournament this year. Let us hope they do and let us hope that young boy comes along with them.

HUNT: For real. Yeah, you know, it's a mascot. Coy, thank you.

WIRE: You got it.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

All right. Coming up in our next hour here on CNN THIS MORNING almost unprecedented cooperation. The Biden and Trump administrations working together to get a deal done in Gaza. We're going to dig into this rare moment of bipartisanship when we talk to Democrat Congressman Greg Landsman and Republican Congressman Zach Nunn. They'll join us together.

Plus, fire crews making progress as winds die down, but officials in Southern California warning they are not out of the woods yet.

[05:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm lucky. I still have every one of my family and my house. You know, I'm like stupid possessions, which they're meaningless. I just think about everybody else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

HUNT: It's Thursday, January 16. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For now, we are optimistic that this is going to get the 98 home finally after all these months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Hope mixed with fear. After 15 months of war Israel and Hamas reach a deal. But new this morning the agreement may be under threat.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Can you say no to the President of the United States when he asks you to do something unethical or illegal?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Loyalty test. Democrats trying to find out just how loyal Donald Trump's pick for attorney general will be to the president- elect.