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Rep. Greg Landsman (D-OH) and Rep. Zach Nunn (R-IA) are Interviewed about the Cease Fire Deal; John Bolton is Interviewed about a Cease Fire Deal; Biden Warns of Oligarchy. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 16, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

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SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL) AND DONALD TRUMP'S NOMINEE FOR SECRETARY OF STATE: There's no way Ukraine is also going to push these people all the way back to where they were on the eve of the invasion just given the size dynamic.

What Vladamir Putin has done is unacceptable, there's no doubt about it, but this war has to end. And I think it should be official policy of the United States that we want to see it end.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The road to this deal has not been easy. I worked on foreign policy for decades.

[06:35:01]

This is one of the toughest negotiations I've ever experienced. And we reached this point because - because of the pressure that Israel built on Hamas, backed by the United States.

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KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: There is a new hurdle to climb in the Gaza ceasefire and hostage release agreement this morning. Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu delaying a cabinet vote on the agreement, accusing Hamas of reneging on parts of the deal. Hamas disputes that, insisting it remains committed to the agreement as it was announced.

Both the outgoing Biden and incoming Trump administrations worked together to push the talks over the finish line. Immediately, though, a debate erupting about who gets credit for the deal. White House National Security Spokesman John Kirby, though, emphasized that this was, in fact, a rare bipartisan accomplishment.

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JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY SPOKESMAN: There's an awful lot of credit here to go around.

I don't think that the hostages and their families are worried about who's claiming or grabbing credit here. And the president doesn't want that to be the focus.

As the president said, it's the next team that's going to have to do that implementing. So, it was important to him that we approach this as a team. And we did. And that's what the American people should expect. It's what those hostage families should expect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And joining us now, in the spirit of bipartisanship, Republican Congressman Zach Nunn of Iowa and Democratic Congressman Greg Landsman of Ohio.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. Appreciate you both being willing to do this.

Congressman Landsman, let me start with you. You and I have had a lot of conversations about, especially with these hostage families. I know it's been something you've worked a lot on.

There is this sort of eruption of questions about who gets credit for this deal. How do you look at it?

REP. GREG LANDSMAN (D-OH): History should decide who gets credit. You know, I think Kirby was right, nobody over there cares, nor should we. And assuming it was done in a bipartisan way and - and - and that's great. That's the best you can hope for. But, ultimately, the only thing that matters is that it holds, that every hostage is returned, and, ultimately, you know, we're all in a position to help rebuild and get on a path to a sustained peace and security.

HUNT: Congressman Nunn, it does seem that one of the key differences here, Donald Trump came out and said, you know, I want this done before my inauguration.

REP. ZACH NUNN (R-IA): Right.

HUNT: That seemed to put some pressure on the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, to come to the table. Do you think that's the case, and does Trump deserve the credit for that?

NUNN: Kasie, I think you're absolutely right here. You know, President Trump was able to do more with one sentence than we've been able to do in the last year.

This becomes a challenge when America is seen as soft. And I would say it's not just the Israelis, it's everyone in the Middle East. He said all hell will unleash in the Middle East if this isn't solved by the 20th. Right now, we shouldn't even be having this negotiation. We have

multiple Americans who have been hostage for more than 400 plus days. They've been put in horrible situations, and innocent civilians should never be used as bargaining chips. And yet here we find ourselves.

And I think the pressure is, as Greg noted here, huge credit to the men and women on the ground who have been negotiating this in good faith in a bipartisan way. We want to be able to bring our Americans home. We want to release the hostages. And, at this point, we're seeing an Israel, which is responding to U.S. support against, not just Hamas, also against Hezbollah, and ultimately the funders and backers of this are wrong. And what I think Trump did in his first term, taking out Soleimani, being able to push back when Obama abandoned his red line in Syria and killed, you know, tens of thousands of Muslims, including Palestinians. Trump came in and said, no, I'm going to destroy that weapons facility. I was the commander in charge of the targeting unit that took that. This is somebody that used - when President Trump walks in and says he's going to do something, the rest of the world listens.

HUNT: Congressman Landsman, I mean to that - to that point, why - why was President Biden unable to get this together? I want to put up on the screen, this was the beginning of a Twitter thread from Tom Malinowski, who's a former Democratic member of Congress. And he says, "this is Biden's deal. But as much as I hate to say it, he couldn't have done it without Trump. Not so much Trump's performative threats, but his willingness to tell Bibi bluntly that the war had to end by January 20th." And he goes on to say that Trump is better equipped to deal with what he describes as thuggery, essentially, in the wielding of American power.

What do you say to that?

LANDSMAN: The only barrier has been Hamas. And every time that the groups get together, usually in Cairo, to negotiate, and you have Israelis and Hamas officials in Cairo, and they get a deal, the barrier has been Hamas. Hamas hasn't agreed.

HUNT: Yes.

LANDSMAN: Or they'll come up with their own plan. And so, I'm not - I'm not big on this, well, just put more pressure on Bibi.

[06:40:06]

The issue has been Hamas. And the question moving forward will be, will Hamas agree or, you know, hold - hold - uphold its end of the bargain? Will, when Sunday comes, will they release the hostages? I mean that's the question.

HUNT: Yes.

LANDSMAN: This all comes back to whether Hamas wants this war to end.

HUNT: Yes. Let me ask you both about something else that has been a bipartisan issue here in Washington, which is TikTok, which, you know, Congress voted overwhelmingly, in bipartisan fashion, to ban the app. It's set to go in effect on Sunday.

Congressman Nunn, we're hearing some reports that President Trump may be thinking about an executive order that would delay the sale. There is a provision of the law that allows that for 90 days. Do you think he should do that?

NUNN: Well, I think, first of all, let's look at - the House led on this, passed it, the Senate approved it and the president signed it into law. The Supreme Court's upheld it.

Now, this isn't a ban of -

HUNT: The court may still weigh in, but, yes.

NUNN: You know, with TikTok on this -

HUNT: We expect it to.

NUNN: Yes, exactly right.

The TikTok on this is a - is an app. And ByteDance, the parent company, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Chinese. And we have seen, for the last six months, Chinese, through Volt Typhoon, Silk Typhoon, Salt Typhoon coming in and pillaging the United States. So, we know the Chinese are incentivized to do this. I think that it's right from a national security side to divest from China being able to have its largest propaganda source right here in the United States.

President Trump coming in. We've got a lot of deadlines coming up this Sunday, Kasie, and I think it's important that we're clear with the American people, there's a new top cop in town, and he's going to have a lot of influence here in getting the Chinese to divest.

In the same tone, TikTok, the app, has an opportunity here to become an American company. And I think that ultimately their CEO may be joining the inauguration this week to have those direct conversations with leaders right here in Washington.

HUNT: Congressman Landsman, you - do you see any upside to delaying this for 90 days? Should President Biden consider doing that before he leaves office? Should Donald Trump use this executive order if he doesn't?

LANDSMAN: I don't know. I mean, quite frankly, I - you know, Zach's right. The point is, keep the app and get the company to disinvest from China. They've just got to get out of China. Because, at the moment, because it is a Chinese based company, China, who is a foreign adversary, they are at any time in a position to weaponize all of our data. And we're putting Americans at risk and our national security at risk.

And so, you know, if they can get this thing sold, that would be the best of both worlds. But, you know, whether there's a delay or not, you know, what we passed was the right decision.

HUNT: A quick last word, Congressman. NUNN: I think this is a bold world. Look, if China wants to continue

to play in this area and refuses to allow it to sell, I feel highly confident that there'll be another app that will immediately spring up in its place.

We just talked about our kids. This is the generation where brand loyalty is not there. They're going to go to something that they need.

LANDSMAN: I asked my kids before the vote, I said, hey, I'm going to vote on this, you know, curious, do you care?

NUNN: Yes.

LANDSMAN: Focus group of two. The answer was like, no. They're both in their phones in the back of the car. And I was like, why? And they're like, something else will come up.

NUNN: Absolutely right. Absolutely right.

HUNT: All right. Well, it's nice to have some bipartisanship breaking out on the set on all of the issues we have talked about today (INAUDIBLE).

NUNN: Agree. Agree. Dads in agreement, right.

LANDSMAN: Yes.

HUNT: Congressmen, thanks to both of you for joining us. I hope you'll come back soon.

NUNN: Thanks, Kasie. Appreciate it.

HUNT: All right, coming up, John Bolton, the former Trump national security adviser and one time U.S. ambassador to the U.N., he's going to join me live to discuss the ceasefire, NATO, and, of course, all things President-elect Trump.

Plus, President Biden issuing a stark warning in his farewell speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to warn the country of some things that give me great concern. This is a dangerous - and that's a dangerous concentration of power in the hands of a very few ultra wealthy people.

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[06:48:20]

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MIKE WALTZ, DONALD TRUMP'S NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER NOMINEE: You're seeing the overwhelming celebrations in Israel. And again, we're going to have people coming out alive.

I'm convinced that if President Trump were not elected, this deal was stuck.

So, this really is a Reagan moment. And we're quite excited about it.

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HUNT: A Reagan moment. That was Mike Waltz, Trump's pick for national security advisor.

With a cease fire and hostage deal between Israel and Hamas set to take effect in the final hours of Joe Biden's presidency, the deal has some drawing parallels to the 1981 release of American hostages held by Iran. Those captives were freed just moments after Ronald Reagan took the oath of office. They went first to Europe and arrived back in the United States a week later.

Like Biden, it was a hostage crisis that President Jimmy Carter had worked on tirelessly in the remaining months of his presidency, with the exact role of their successors subject to debate. Ultimately, it was President Reagan who welcomed them home. Carter calling him the morning of his inauguration to tell him the good news.

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JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Governor. Good morning. How you doing? Now, a placed a call for it earlier. I just want to let you know that the planes are at the end of the runway.

The Iranians were notified about roughly 25 minutes ago. But I'll see you later on for the ceremonies.

God bless you. Thank you, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Wow.

Joining me now, former Trump national security advisor, former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton.

Mr. Ambassador, very grateful to have you on the program. Thanks for being here.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Glad to be here.

HUNT: You have, of course, emerged as a Trump critic in the wake of your experience with him.

[06:50:01]

I'm interested to know, do you think President-elect Trump deserves credit for this deal between Israel and Hamas?

BOLTON: Well, I think he's responsible for the deal. I wouldn't take credit with it. I think it's a very bad mistake by Israel. I think they're acquiescing because of the pressure that Trump put on the Netanyahu government. I don't think this deal was good. Over the last seven months, the outlines are basically what was put out by the Biden administration in May, if I'm not mistaken, and it doesn't make it any better, the fact that Trump now endorses it. In fact, it contradicts a basic element of Trump's pretty successful efforts in his first term to get American hostages released, which is, you don't swap hostages.

The Israelis have had a long policy of doing it. I think it's been a long mistake for Israel. I think this is the worst time to give Hamas six weeks of a cease fire, or any Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. And I'm very worried it's going to have long term implications. But I think Netanyahu's doing it because Biden only has four days left in office, and he's got four years of Trump to face. But it's the wrong way to start.

HUNT: So, you come down in many ways with the people to the right of Netanyahu and his government on this question?

BOLTON: Well, I come down where Mike Waltz is, at least in this text of an interview with Dan Senor yesterday. He said, "I don't like any deal with these sick, evil sons of whatever, and we should never, ever reward the horrendous acts of October the 7th," and said that what you really need to do is cut out the cancer that Hamas represents.

By giving a six week cease fire, if it happens, you're giving Hamas the chance to gain hundreds of potential new fighters from the Palestinians being released. Remember, Yahya Sinwar, the now deceased leader of Hamas in Gaza, was a prisoner released by Israel. The terms of this deal, the numbers are a little hazy. But it is roughly 50 Palestinian prisoners for every Israeli hostage, some of whom, by the way, are going to be dead. And we don't know how many of the hundred that Hamas is still believed to hold are actually still alive, which demonstrates the barbarity and the cynicism of Hamas playing on the understandable emotions of hostage families for months now, knowing that the hostages were dead.

The only negotiation you should have with Hamas is to find any of them who might be left to sign the unconditional surrender. That's the only negotiation I would have with this brutal terrorist group.

HUNT: All right, sir, I want to ask you about something that we're seeing here at home with the former president, who invoked your name. The former president, president-elect, invoked your name in a post on his Truth Social platform overnight. And it seems to be something of a blacklist for people who worked for or were supported by a number of figures in the Republican Party, including you.

Trump wrote this, quote, "in order to save time, money, and effort, it would be helpful if you would not send or recommend to us people who worked with or are endorsed by," and he calls you "dumb as a rock, John Bolton." This is a picture slate of all of the others who are also included there.

What is your response to this? BOLTON: Well, you know, it's very typical of Trump to open his mouth

without knowing what he's talking about. And I bear no ill will to the people who once worked for me, who have already been announced for jobs in - in the Trump administration. I'm going to - I'm not going to name them and get them into trouble, or the many others that I'm aware of are still trying to get jobs in the Trump administration. So, I think that list he's put out there is a pretty good company to be in, and I can't wait for the intrepid journalists at CNN and elsewhere to reveal all the names of these people who have worked for people on the blacklist.

HUNT: What does it say to you that this is how Donald Trump is approaching - approaching this as he is set to take office in just a handful of days?

BOLTON: Sure. Look, there - there are a lot of people - and - and it's normal in a transition. The incoming president's team and their supporters are just in the rapture. Everything's fine. Everything's going to be OK. All things will happen. Everything will be a victory. And for those who say that Trump is reformed, that he's grown, that he's going to be a normal president, this is the kind of thing, like the Mar-a-Lago press conference last week, that demonstrates he hasn't changed at all.

[06:55:02]

It's going to be four years, just like the last four years.

HUNT: Sir, while I have you, I also want to ask you about some of the confirmation battles that are going to play out on Capitol Hill, namely one that has, for whatever reason, flown a little bit under the radar compared to, for example, Pete Hegseth for defense secretary, and that's Tulsi Gabbard as the director of national intelligence.

I'm - would you urge Republicans to oppose her nomination? What are your concerns? And do you think if Democrats were to try and - and organize opposition against her, that they would find some traction with their Republican counterparts?

BOLTON: Well, I must say, the Democratic performance in the confirmation process so far has been pretty pathetic. It's like they don't know how to play the game anymore. But I have thought of all of Trumps nominees, they cover a wide spectrum, three are actually dangerous. One was Matt Gaetz. He's gone. The other two are Tulsi Gabbard and Kash Patel. Mediocrity has its place in government. We know that all too well. But dangerous people, dangerous people, in the case of the intelligence community, national security and law enforcement in particular, there are two more, Patel and Gabbard, who should not be confirmed.

HUNT: All right. Ambassador John Bolton. I'm very grateful to have you on the show, sir. Thanks very much for coming on with us.

BOLTON: Glad to be with you.

HUNT: All right, let's turn now to this. In his farewell address last night, President Biden sounding a lot

like another American president on his way out the door. Back in 1961, Dwight Eisenhower addressed the American people for the final time as president. An address which included this now famous warning.

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Dwight EISENHOWER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT (January 17, 1961): We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex.

Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Joe Biden was 18 years old when President Eisenhower delivered that speech. Biden now has his own warning for America 64 years later.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms and a fair shot for everyone to get ahead.

I'm equally concerned about the potential rise of a tech industrial complex that could pose real dangers for our country, as well. Americans are being buried under an avalanche of misinformation and disinformation, enabling the abuse of power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, our panel is back with us.

And, Hyma, this, of course, a poignant moment for President Biden as he does a step off the stage. Interesting, he decided to frame it that way, talking about an oligarchy and especially warning about the technology companies.

What did you make of - of how he used this address last night?

HYMA MOORE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO DNC CHAIR JAIME HARRISON: Yes, look, I - I think a couple of things about President Biden. He's very presidential. I think he takes this office very seriously. And so, being at that desk last night meant a lot to him.

But if you're President Biden, you're think about two things right now. You're thinking about all you thought you were able to accomplish, infrastructure, reducing inflation as much as you could, you know, bringing people back to D.C., back to work, open the country back up, et cetera, et cetera. But what's in your heart is, have you really saved the soul of the nation? When he ran four years ago, he talked about saving the soul of this nation, and he has tried time and time again. And I don't think he really feels like he was able to accomplish that. So, there's a lot of unfinished business. And so I do think that he's grappling with that over the next couple days. So, it's going to be tough for him to - to step aside.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I -

HUNT: Well, with -

WILLIAMS: I - yes, I think with the -

HUNT: With President Trump coming back.

MOORE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And I think another way to put it is that President Biden is an individual that was preparing for the moment he would leave the presidency, probably since 1972. For generations he's been on the American stage. This was quite a whimper of a way to end a storied career as a public servant, let's be clear. But this is not the way I think he wanted it to end.

HUNT: Quickly.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I learned more about how the French built the Statue of Liberty last night than I learned about anything else during that speech. And for him to - to - to denigrate the tech industry, and I'll just say, that has provided more jobs and more opportunity and more American exceptionalism and is going to help us in our fight against China, I'm not sure - I think he was grasping at straws and he wanted his Eisenhower moment, to your point. I'm not sure he - he landed that.

MOORE: Yes.

HUNT: All right. Well, thank you all for joining us today. Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well.

I do want to give you a quick look here as we leave. This is a live shot from the International Space Station.

[07:00:03]

What you're seeing there are astronauts getting ready to walk in space. This is going to come up in a few hours. Suni Williams, she's one of the astronauts that was stranded on the ISS this summer, is going to take part in that spacewalk. I mean, look, I guess if you're stuck there, you might as well make the most of it, right? Why not?

All right, I'm Kasie Hunt. Dont go anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.