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Full Israeli Cabinet Set to Vote on Ceasefire-Hostage Deal; U.S. Supreme Court Clears Way for TikTok Ban to Take Effect; President-elect Trump and China's Xi Jinping Spoke and Discussed TikTok; More than 100 People Killed Since Hamas-Israel Deal was Announced; U.S. TikTok Users Flock to RedNote App; Biden Ratifies Equal Rights Amendment. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 17, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:19]
JESSICA DEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back to our second hour of CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.
The Israeli government is set to vote on the Gaza ceasefire deal any moment now, and we will bring you more information on what the next steps will be.
Moscow and Tehran strengthened their ties with a new strategic pact. How these world leaders are displaying a show of force for the West to see.
And we're waiting on a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court on the possible TikTok ban. We'll take a deep dive on what the company could do next.
That elusive ceasefire-hostage release deal to end 15 months of brutal war in Gaza is now one final step from approval. Israel's full cabinet is set
to vote on the deal today after the smaller security cabinet approved it a few hours ago. If the full cabinet approves the deal, which is considered
likely, fighting would end and hostages would begin being freed on Sunday.
Ahead of that, Israel has been bombarding targets across Gaza. 111 people are reportedly killed, more than half of them women and children. We'll
have more on those Israeli attacks in Gaza in just a few moments. But first, I want to go to international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, who's
joining us now.
And Nic, there's so much here to unfold in the next several days. What is the latest as we see this happening in real time right now?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I think the very next step is the cabinet meeting, which is expected to begin in less than
half an hour. And that meeting will vote on whether or not to go ahead with the deal, which has already been finalized, as we understand, has already
been agreed by the security cabinet. It seems that at this moment nothing is clearly going to stand in the way.
And that will unlock the door to the first of the hostages if all goes to plan being released on Sunday. Three women are expected to be released.
Three females are expected to be released on Sunday, and that will be the first step in what will be a long and undoubtedly nail-biting process for
the families of the other 30 hostages that are expected to be released during this 40-day period, 42-day period this first phase.
But of course, there's some momentous other issues to discuss during that period. After 16 days, the next phases of the ceasefire-hostage release
negotiations and phases of implementation, those talks will get underway earnestly and the clock will be ticking because there will be the end of
the first phase coming up. And on the back of everyone's minds will be the possibility that any hostages not handed over by the end of those 42 days
may not be released for a long time if the ceasefire were to break down.
And certainly what we're hearing from ministers, some of the sort of harder right nationalist ministers within Benjamin Netanyahu's cabinet is that
they don't want to see the ceasefire extended, they don't want a permanent ceasefire. So there will be a lot of pressure on interpretation of all the
fine points of this agreement that we've yet to see how effective it might be at actually getting to the second and third phases and to a realistic
long term ceasefire, which, of course, is the pressure that's coming from President Biden at the White House, which is the aspiration of so many
people around the world.
It really isn't clear yet, and it won't be until we're much further into the 42-day first phase, if it will reach that far.
DEAN: All right. Nic Robertson, for us with the latest. Thank you so much.
I want to get to some breaking news just in to CNN. We're going right to CNN media correspondent Hadas Gold.
And Hadas, the Supreme Court appearing to clear the way for this TikTok ban. This is just in. Take us through this decision.
HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this decision just coming in the last few minutes, the Supreme Court has cleared the way for the TikTok ban
to take effect on Sunday on January 19th, just one day before President- elect Trump is to be inaugurated. They ruled that this ban can take effect over the weekend. They rejected the appeal from TikTok's parent company,
ByteDance.
TikTok's parent company ByteDance claimed that the ban -- that the law violated the First Amendment. Now, we do expect, this is the reporting that
we have, that TikTok, the app, will be shut down. This is according to reports that TikTok, and TikTok has also said this in court, that users who
will try to access the app from Sunday on, they will not be able to access it as they normally do. They will get a pop up giving them information
about the ban.
[10:05:00]
We do not yet have a comment or reaction from the company, as this ruling has just come out in the last few minutes. But I also want to note
something interesting is that this law will actually not just have an effect on users in the United States, it will also actually have an effect
on users around the world. And that's because the service providers that help host the TikTok app, those are really the targets of this new law.
They're the ones who are going to have to no longer host or put the information on the app stores. They also provide services for international
users. So it's not just Americans who could be affected by this. People who are trying to log in from outside the United States might run into problems
themselves.
Now, there has been some reporting about the Biden administration maybe trying to put a stop to this. So far, all indications are that this is now
going to be squarely in Trump's lap. It's going to be really interesting to see what happens actually on Sunday to people who are logging into TikTok.
I would advise people who love their TikTok, love their videos, to go on to TikTok right now and download all of their information, download their
videos, download any other videos that you might be interested in.
Just because we don't know what will it will actually look like come Sunday when this ban takes effect -- Jessica.
DEAN: That's what's so fascinating about all of this. I mean, there's a lot of layers to it, Hadas, but how this actually plays out is still a big
question mark because it's also happening on the very last day of the Biden administration. Of course, Trump will be inaugurated the next day. There's
a lot of questions. Biden has not indicated that, you know, that he's kind of going to just let it happen and then hand it over to Trump. And there
are big questions about what comes after that.
GOLD: Yes, it's so dramatic that this is happening really in the final waning hours of the Biden administration, even if they were due to do
something, of course, Trump will then take office just a few hours later and Trump himself, you know, even this morning he was saying that he had
spoken to the Chinese president, and he has said he wanted the Supreme Court to delay implementation of this so that he could, in his words, sort
of strike a deal.
It's not clear what he's going to do. But for TikTok and for ByteDance, even if they believe that maybe somehow Trump would be able to tell the
Justice Department not to enforce this ban, that is really legally tricky territory for this app to be in and for the service providers to be in.
Specifically we're talking about the Apple App Store, the Google App Store, the service providers like Oracle, who provide the Cloud computing.
They don't want to necessarily be in this murky data -- in this murky area because the fines, the violations, you know, they might be by the minute,
by the hour, it could be very expensive. And they don't want to have to be in that murky territory. And so most likely is that it will come off on
Sunday.
Now, things could change when Trump comes back on Monday. There could be some deal. I do want to note that I think it's really interesting. There
was all of that reporting that Chinese officials had been in discussions of getting somebody like Elon Musk to buy the app and in that way adhere to
the law because then it would be in the hands of a U.S. owner. We have heard absolutely nothing from Elon Musk, the man who loves to be on his
platform X posting all day long, commenting on anything, commenting in response to random users.
He has not said a word about that reporting. You have to wonder what is going on behind the scenes. We know other people have been trying to buy
TikTok as well. There's a lot of questions about the algorithm because the Chinese have said they will never give up the algorithm for TikTok, not let
it be in U.S. hands. And of course, that is what makes this app so valuable, what makes it so addictive and so important to so many users.
DEAN: Yes, so much more to come on all of this.
Hadas Gold, thank you so much for that breaking news reporting.
And for more analysis we're joined now from Washington, D.C. by Darrell West. He's a senior fellow at the Center for Technology Innovation at
Brookings Institute.
Thanks so much for being here. Again, the breaking news right now, the Supreme Court clearing the way for this ban to go into effect. And the
stipulation had been that ByteDance, the owner of TikTok, could either sell TikTok or just they have to shut down operations in the U.S. At this point,
as Hadas was just saying, there doesn't seem to be any indication they are moving toward any sort of sale.
DARRELL WEST, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: Yes, Jessica, you're right. There's no indication that a sale is going to take place. So
ByteDance has already said they're not going to sell to Elon Musk. So that rumor seems not to be confirmed, at least at this point. I think at this
point, all eyes really are on President-elect Trump. Some of the people around him have suggested the possibility of a 30 or 60-day cooling off
period in which negotiations could take place, and it would provide some time, either for a sale to an American party or some negotiation. But it's
really unclear what's going to happen as soon as that ban starts to go into effect.
DEAN: Yes, and in terms of precedents, have we seen anything like this before?
WEST: I don't really know of other precedents of this sort. I mean, it's a very unusual feature of this digital era to have a social media platform
that is so popular in the United States. I mean, there are many small businesses that rely on it for e-commerce purposes. There are young
influencers who use it. I mean, even political candidates have been using it to reach youth audiences. So it's an unusual situation.
[10:10:00]
But, you know, the government made the argument that there were national security risks of this Chinese-owned company. The Supreme Court bought that
argument and have upheld the ban. So even though there are lots of people in the United States who use this app and love it, as things stand now, as
of Sunday, they will not have access to it.
DEAN: Yes. And so -- and you mentioned the small businesses, you mentioned the influencers. Look, there's a lot of people that make money off of
TikTok and that is their livelihood or it contributes to their livelihood. What happens for these people?
WEST: They don't really have good options. Certainly TikTok as an app on cell phones is not going to be available as soon as this ban takes effect.
It is possible that people might be able to access it through the internet. People who have a VPN, a virtual private network, may be able to still
access it, but obviously that's not ideal and most people will not be able to avail themselves of those types of things.
So for those who have relied on this for business purposes or just for general communications, as of Sunday, they are not going to be able to use
it unless either President Biden, in his last day, does something, or President-elect Trump in the opening days of his administration has this
cooling off period.
DEAN: All right. Thank you so much for that analysis as we kind of go through and watch how this is going to unfold over the next several days.
We really appreciate it.
And as we've stated before, ByteDance, that's the Chinese company that owns TikTok, has previously indicated it does not have any intention of selling
that app to an American buyer.
And for more on this, let's bring in CNN's Marc Stewart, who is standing by in Beijing with more from there.
Marc, how -- what are you hearing in Beijing? And also, this comes as we know, President Trump and Xi Jinping spoke earlier today.
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. In fact, news of that phone call has been blasted across China for the past hour. And among the talking
points that we are hearing from the government is that Xi Jinping called for a new starting point in this relationship.
But let's make it very clear, Jessica. China does not want to do anything that makes it appear as if it's taking orders from the United States. And
that certainly includes this ByteDance TikTok issue. There's been a lot of discussion about potential deals on the table, but China is trying to, at
this point, trying to establish itself as a leader in a new world order. And it doesn't want to do anything to bruise that.
Despite all of these diplomatic talks of goodwill that seem to be emerging, in fact, China has weighed in on this before, at one point calling the
United States approach to this, calling the United States a bully. As far as government involvement, it's hard to -- its hard to know exactly where
Beijing stands in all of this, but I think it would be naive to say that. It's not playing some kind of role.
It's a point of discussion that I brought up just last week when I talked to the U.S. ambassador to China from his residence here in Beijing. Let's
take a listen to part of my conversation with Nicholas Burns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: How much influence does Beijing have in this debate?
NICHOLAS BURNS, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: We make the assumption, I certainly do as ambassador here, that the Chinese government has ultimate,
complete authority and access to convince a state enterprise here in China or a private company to do what they wish them to do. This is an
authoritarian government in an authoritarian environment. So that is an issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: Some very strong words from the U.S. ambassador. On this point of China's involvement in this private company, ByteDance, the owner of
TikTok, I have asked government leaders, I think now four separate times, what kind of role are they playing? Are they advising ByteDance? I've not
been able to get a clear response. So this is going to be one of many issues that this new administration is going to have to tackle with
Beijing, along with tariffs and many other issues that have been developing between these two nations.
But expect China, Jessica, to really stand firm and not settle or take the orders of the United States.
DEAN: Yes, it certainly seems that way with all indications. Marc Stewart, thank you so much.
And for even more on this, let's bring in Scott Babwah Brennen, director of the Center on Technology Policy at New York University.
Scott, thanks so much for joining us. I just want to first get your reaction to this Supreme Court decision.
SCOTT BABWAH BRENNEN, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER ON TECHNOLOGY POLICY, NYU: Yes. I mean, you know, honestly, I think a lot of us were sort of expecting
this outcome, the Supreme Court to uphold the, you know, clear the way for the law to go into effect. But it's honestly kind of alarming. I mean, to
me, it sets a pretty scary precedent about not only as it relates to the First Amendment, but also as it relates to executive authority and national
security.
[10:15:11]
You know, I'm certainly sympathetic to the concern about -- the national security sort of concerns here, but frankly we have no real evidence of the
specific concerns that have been articulated by the government actually happening as it relates to collection of personal private data or to covert
content manipulation.
DEAN: So, in your view, then you don't think ByteDance and TikTok are gathering information on Americans and that it's a threat to the national
security?
BRENNEN: Oh, I mean, sorry, we certainly know that they're gathering a lot of data. I think every platform gathers a huge amount of data. The sort of
personal data that's available for purchase, the divestment order actually included that provisions related to data brokers. But as it concerns the
specific national security harms, there just hasn't been that much actual empirical data to support the harms actually happening. So --
DEAN: Yes, but does it concern you that the Chinese Communist Party, which obviously sees America as an adversary, is, you know, owns this? Do you
think that is indeed concerning, or you don't think so?
BRENNEN: Sure. I mean, yes, this is a really difficult situation and I absolutely am sympathetic to the, you know, the concerns here. I think I'm
more concerned, though, also about the -- what this means for, you know, respecting the First Amendment, that it's, you know, this, you know,
shutting down basically the First Amendment rights not only of the platform but of the users on it as well.
DEAN: And so Trump obviously is going to have a big role to play because he's taking office on Monday. The ban will effectively go into effect on
Sunday. How might this work in real life. What do you think, if you're a TikTok user out there, you can expect or do we even know?
BRENNEN: Yes, I think we don't really know. I mean, it seems that TikTok will be shutting down access on Sunday to U.S. users. This was a -- this is
a choice that they that they make, that the law doesn't necessarily require this. But it's understandable. Right? They want to they want to make it
very clear to their users what, you know, what the stakes are here. But really it all is going to come down to the Trump administration.
You know, after Monday what they decide to do and honestly what they can do. I think it's sort of unclear what their authority is here and then what
they choose to do with it.
DEAN: Yes. I mean, it certainly seems like they're trying to sort out, I think the Biden administration as well, trying to kind of sort out if there
is any maneuver you can make from the executive branch to affect this law at all.
If TikTok does, I mean, again, now we're just going to have to wait and see. But let's say the TikTok ban goes into effect and it is not available
to American users, what do you think the fallout from that could be?
BRENNEN: Yes, we'll see. I mean, we're already seeing on TikTok, a lot of discussion, a lot of movement of users to alternative platforms also, you
know, controlled by China, which seems like an act of, you know, major trolling. But, yes, I mean, it's -- so much is sort of unknown at this
moment about what's going to happen. I think next week is going to be very, very sort of exciting.
DEAN: Yes. No. It will. We are certainly watching it all play out in front of our very eyes.
Scott, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate your time.
BRENNEN: Yes. Thank you so much.
DEAN: And we're back after a quick break with much more on our breaking news. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:21:02]
DEAN: Tick-tock for TikTok. In the past few minutes, the Supreme Court ruling a controversial ban on TikTok in the U.S. can proceed on Sunday. The
move rejects an appeal from the app that claimed the ban violated the First Amendment. President-elect Trump says he spoke with China's leader Xi
Jinping on the matter earlier today. Lawmakers have been hoping an American buyer can be found to spin off the app's U.S. operations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. EDWARD MARKEY (D-MA): We're willing to work with President-elect Trump and try to extend that deadline as well. This should be bipartisan. This
should not be an issue which we are debating. And even as we're debating, TikTok users are flocking to a Chinese app with no reported presence in the
United States. That's what's happening in our country right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Now, it's worth noting the TikTok ban, when it went through Congress, was one of the most bipartisan pieces of legislation, with Republicans and
Democrats supporting it sailing to President Biden's desk at the time. Donald Trump has been kind of all over the place when it comes to TikTok.
He initially was all for banning the super popular app in his first term. Now he's pushing for maybe a plan to possibly save it, talking a lot about
how a lot of his supporters and people who love him are on TikTok.
CNN's Alayna Treene is joining us now from West Palm Beach, Florida. Hadas Gold is joining us from New York.
Alayna, let's start first with you. Set us -- set the stage for us about Trump when it comes to banning TikTok, what they might do moving forward in
the next few days. He'll take office, of course, on Monday.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, Jessica, we know that Donald Trump and his team has been weighing an executive order soon after he would
be sworn in on Monday that would effectively try to put a pause on this ban for a certain period of time, 60 to 90 days is what I'm told, so that they
could try to find some sort of resolution, negotiate some sort of kind of off-ramp to save the app. Perhaps that could also still include having
TikTok divest from its Chinese owner, ByteDance, but other things as well.
Now, one thing we know, and you pointed this out, we have to, you know, explain heavily here or really emphasize that this is a departure from
where Donald Trump was back in 2020, shortly before he departed office during his first term. He had pushed for a ban on TikTok, saying that it
was a national security threat and saying that he wanted it to divest from its Chinese owners. So this is definitely a departure from that.
We know that also that Donald Trump just late last month had really pressured and tried to urge the Supreme Court to put a pause on this ban so
that his team could try to find some sort of solution once he was in office.
Now, the other thing that we have to point out here is Donald Trump's recent conversations with both the TikTok, the CEO of TikTok, Shou Chew,
but also this morning he said that he talked to Chinese President Xi Jinping and talked about during that call this upcoming ban on TikTok. So
all of this is worth noting. Another thing of course we need to know is that not only did Donald Trump has been in regular contact with TikTok CEO,
he's also met with him in person.
We know Chew went to Mar-a-Lago last month to meet directly with Donald Trump. He's also planning to attend Donald Trump's inauguration on Monday.
He's going to have prime seating on the dais alongside some of Donald Trump's cabinet members, family members as well as other CEOs of major tech
companies. So that is a very notable thing, of course. But then also, we know that China, for the first time, Xi Jinping, is going to be sending one
of its top officials from the Chinese Communist Party to the inauguration.
So, again, all of this is coming around and all this is surrounding this big decision that Donald Trump has and what his team is going to do about
TikTok. And again, we have to point out as well, that Donald Trump has said that he's really warmed to TikTok because so many users, one, we know that
America has millions and millions of users who use this app every day.
[10:25:06]
But also he believes that many of them through TikTok voted for him. They supported him through TikTok, watched his campaign through TikTok, and
that's why many young voters went out. Donald Trump has said that himself, and that is definitely a big part of what is weighing on his mind as he
makes some of these decisions -- Jessica.
DEAN: Yes. And interesting, as we go through, look, a lot of Republicans on Capitol Hill are splitting with him on this. They have supported this ban.
They continue to support this ban today. So it will be interesting to see how that dynamic plays out.
Alayna, stay with us. I want to bring in Hadas Gold now to talk a little bit about the media angle of this, the TikTok angle of this.
Hadas, it's interesting because TikTok made the argument about violating the first -- that this was a violation of the First Amendment, which is
guaranteed, of course, under the U.S. Constitution. But the question is, does a Chinese company in America have First Amendment rights and
protections, and the Supreme Court ruling today that this ban can move forward?
GOLD: Yes. The Supreme Court rejecting that First Amendment argument. I should note this was a unanimous decision by all the members of the Supreme
Court, and they specifically cited the national security concerns. And they did acknowledge, you know, that TikTok is a distinctive and expansive
outlet for expression, they said, a means of engagement and source of community. But, I mean, we don't have to say this, there's other places
that people can express themselves, especially Americans. But what they say in this decision is that Congress determined divestiture is necessary to
address what they said is a well-supported national security concern.
So I'm really curious if President-elect Donald Trump does manage to delay this in any way, how he's going to justify the real bipartisan and now
unanimous Supreme Court national security concerns about this app and what will go forward. But in the immediate term, all of these creators who have,
you know, have careers, who have made a lot of money on this, people who just like to spend a lot of time on TikTok, they right now are being faced
with the very real reality that they've been afraid of now for some time, that this app, their favorite app, is now going to go away very quickly in
the next few days.
And now what you're seeing is creators posting sort of sometimes goodbye reels on TikTok I've been seeing. They've also been posting, you know,
follow me elsewhere. Some of them have even been asked going kind of old school. They're asking their followers for their e-mail addresses so they
can have an easy way to contact all of their followers as they try to find a new home.
It is interesting to see that some of these most popular apps that have been popping up have been other Chinese owned social media apps, including
some that are owned by ByteDance, who would ostensibly be a subject to the same restrictions under this law. There's no clear place that people are
going to. And this is something we've actually been seeing recently in social media that people have been sort of flocking to their different
corners, their different apps.
We've been seeing this recently with X, people leaving X, going to Blue Sky, going to Threads, and now it seems like we might be seeing the same
thing with TikTok, unless somehow it manages to find a U.S. owner or something changes with this law. There are options available, as have been
laid out, things that President-elect Trump could do, things that Congress could do, but it could be interesting to see a political battle here
between what would a president-elect wants to do and what Congress and the Supreme Court has said about national security concerns.
DEAN: Absolutely, Hadas, thank you so much.
Let's bring Alayna back in.
And Alayna, let's pick up right where Hadas left, which is this is a unanimous decision by the Supreme Court, a very bipartisan vote from
Congress. As we were mentioning a lot of Republicans splitting with Trump on this. How does that, if it does, factor into how Trump and his team will
move forward on this?
TREENE: I think it's definitely going to be a factor. And of course, you know, so many people in the Republican Party, and even when Donald Trump
was first weighing this ban back in 2020, when he said that he wanted this ban to be on TikTok or force TikTok to divest from its Chinese parent
company, a huge part of that is because so many Republicans are China hawks. He's going to have one, Marco Rubio, in his administration if he can
be confirmed for secretary of State.
I note as well that Rubio is someone who is actually sanctioned by Beijing. So it's definitely, I think, going to be a split within the Republican
Party moving forward because so many people have such a hard line stance on China. I will argue as well Donald Trump continues to have a very
aggressive stance on China, wants to go after them aggressively, including with tariffs and other different moves that he can take.
But this is, of course, something that would likely be very welcome by Xi Jinping, who Donald Trump spoke this morning. Look, what Donald Trump is
trying to do is really with this potential executive order that he is weighing is to buy his administration, his incoming administration, some
time to see if they can work out a deal.
Now, one thing that is clear is that it could potentially be a deal that would force China, like President Joe Biden and Congress had voted on, to
still try and divest from its Chinese ownership. I think part of this is if Donald Trump is thinking that maybe he can find a way to really convince
TikTok and others to make an agreement that would still protect national security interests in America.
[10:30:02]
It's very unclear if that's even possible, but that is what I'm hearing in my conversations with Donald Trump's advisers about some of the calculus
here. But, again, prolonging this ban that is expected to take effect on Sunday is definitely something that has left many Republicans and Democrats
uneasy because they are so concerned about the threat. And really, you know, the national security concerns of having a Chinese owned company
really have access to a lot of this data and so many, you know, of these users who use this in the United States.
DEAN: All right. Alayna Treene in West Palm Beach, our thanks to you and our thanks to Hadas Gold as well.
Up next, the future of TikTok's U.S. operations hanging in the balance. We're going to look at what's next for the app as the Supreme Court major
ruling comes down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DEAN: And welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York. We have more on our breaking news just out in the last hour.
The Biden White House signaling it does not plan to enforce a ban on TikTok that could take effect as soon as Sunday. The Biden administration said
instead it's going to leave the implementation of that ban to the incoming Trump administration. The
U.S. Supreme Court ruling just moments ago, the controversial ban on TikTok can go into effect this weekend.
I want to bring in Paula Reid and Marc Stewart.
Paula, let's start first with you. This was a unanimous decision from the Supreme Court.
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a rare area where you see a sort of unanimous consent across the bench, concerns about
national security here, overriding First Amendment arguments. I mean, this is really an incredible clash of these two issues. And the biggest decision
that they've made so far.
And when it comes to the First Amendment, we know nearly 200 million Americans use this app to express themselves through dance, through cat
videos, through, you know, small businesses. People even sometimes get their news from TikTok. But the national security concerns are what
prompted Congress to pass a bill last April with broad bipartisan support.
The concern is that this app is collecting enormous amounts of data and that TikTok's parent company, ByteDance, has obligations to the Chinese
government, a foreign adversary, and that this data that is collected could be used in a crisis or other situation to harm the U.S. And it was
interesting during oral arguments to see that the justices on both sides of the aisle were skeptical about TikTok's argument that the First Amendment
protections should override these national security concerns.
Here, they are upholding this ban, which could go into effect Sunday unless there is some proof that there are good faith negotiations underway to
separate TikTok from its parent company, ByteDance.
[10:35:02]
DEAN: Yes, and I want to bring in Marc Stewart. Paula, stay with us, because Marc is following this from the Beijing end of things.
What are officials there in China saying about this, Marc?
STEWART: Well, it's interesting, Jessica, because it was just about an hour or so ago that I think all of us in China who cover China got a bit of a
surprise to hear that China acknowledged that Xi Jinping and President- elect Trump actually had a phone call. It's the first time that China has recognized a phone conversation between these two world leaders.
According to reporting from CNN in the U.S., Donald Trump's team said that TikTok was among the items discussed, not something that state media here
is reporting. So that's interesting to note, but state media is talking about a new starting point. When it comes to this TikTok issue, let's be
very clear. You know, despite some of this goodwill diplomacy that we see taking place, China is not going to do anything to appear as if it is
taking orders from the United States.
So, as Paula mentioned, part of that order said, these good faith talks, China is clearly going to want to be in a position of having an upper hand,
especially as it portrays itself as a leader in a new world order, an alternative to the United States. And it would be naive to think that
Beijing does not have a say in those discussions. So that's part of the timeline. I think we're all very curious to see.
There is also a bit of irony in all of this, Jessica. Here in China, U.S. apps such as Facebook, such as Instagram, YouTube, they cannot be accessed
by the average Chinese person. As an American with a U.S. cell phone, I'm able to access these apps. Some Chinese residents, a very small amount, are
able to access them with a VPN, a way to go around the government's firewall. But it's interesting that the United States is talking about
these free speech issues, or China is bringing up these free speech issues, yet it's not something that's necessarily part of life here.
But this TikTok debate certainly is a big point of conversation. Just in everyday conversations with people, you know, wherever I may be the TikTok
issue comes up. We've seen this massive Americans looking at another social media platform here in China. It's also interesting, it was just a few
weeks ago we were talking to a toy store owner in Beijing who uses an app called Douyin, which is the Chinese version of TikTok.
It has a tremendous e-commerce platform to it, and this store owner was saying to us, it would be a pity if Americans who use TikTok weren't able
to do that as well because it is such a presence, such a money-making presence in so many people's lives in China and the United States --
Jessica.
DEAN: Yes, so many dynamics at play here, Marc. Thank you so much for that reporting. Our thanks to Paula Reid as well.
We're going to be back after a quick break with much more on this breaking news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:40:26]
DEAN: We are following reaction to the breaking news out of Washington, D.C., as the U.S. Supreme Court has cleared the way for a ban on TikTok to
take effect. We're going to continue to monitor that. Let's now, though, return to the Middle East and go back to our other major story driving
today.
The Israeli cabinet meeting right now to vote on a Gaza ceasefire deal. That deal has not stopped relentless Israeli bombardment in Gaza. The
strikes have killed more than 100 Palestinians, the majority of them women and children since that agreement was announced. That's according to health
officials in Gaza. One resident says life has become, in his words, quote, "an unbearable hell."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOMAA ABED AL-AAL, GAZA RESIDENT (through translator): We ask God for the truce to be implemented because the people are really tired of a life of
death, a life of killing, and a life of destruction. Life has become an unbearable hell. Regarding children, a side of the psychological situation,
the social situation and the economic situation on multiple dimensions. We are honestly suffering physically, completely suffering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Antoine Renard, the U.N. World Food Programme's Palestine director, is joining us now. He is in central Gaza, where his team has been
supporting and feeding families there.
Antoine, thank you so much for your time today. Just, first, I want you to set the scene for people who are watching around the world what you're
seeing, what you're hearing from Gazans who are on the ground there.
ANTOINE RENARD, DIRECTOR IN PALESTINE, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME: No, thank you so much for receiving us. And what we hear first is a bit of a message of
hope. I've been across the field and meeting a number of people currently being in Gaza, and right after the ceasefire, the first message that I had,
I was with Naima (PH), she's more than 70 years old.
And when we were discussing yesterday morning the first message that she has was, I am ready to go back home. She's actually living in the north of
Gaza. She has 15 hectares of land. And her main message is I want to reunite with my family. I want to go back to my land. And for me, that's
perhaps the main message despite the fact that we've been 15 months into this war is this message of hope.
DEAN: And people wanting to go back to their home and be reunited with their family, their friends. I also want to ask you about aid that's
getting into Gaza. This deal aims to get 600 trucks per day into Gaza. The U.N. said last month only about 71 trucks per day have been making it in.
What is your assessment of the aid and how much is getting in? And if that is -- if they're able to get 600 trucks in, what kind of a difference that
could make?
RENARD: I mean, to give you a concrete, let's say, reaction to that. In the course of December, we were supposed to bring 30,000 metric tons of food
just for the World Food Programme. We are covering 1.1 million people with hot meals kitchen. We are supporting a number of bakeries, and we were only
able to bring 14,000. More than half was not covered. Due to that, we were forced in central and south of Gaza to cut our program with the bakeries.
We were forced also to provide only a third of the food ration we suppose to provide to population. So for us, you know, looking at the ceasefire
coming along, we have all it takes through different corridors, through Egypt, through Ashdod in Israel or through Amman to cover people's needs.
So the readiness is there. We are ready with UNWRA and the World Food Programme to cover 2.2 million people. We have all it takes under different
corridors.
DEAN: And you must be then coordinating with the different nations and governments, Israel, Egypt, the U.S. What other key partners are you
talking to? How is that working as you prepare to get that access?
RENARD: I mean, from the United Nations, and here I speak in the name of the World Food Programme, we've been active for more than 15 months. We've
been speaking to donors, to international community, but we've been also speaking to the society and the civil society that is in Gaza. The most
important for us is that at the moment we have confirmation that the ceasefire is being active, is to make sure that all stakeholders, all
crossings being open seven days a week, that we also within Gaza, do not face any looting anymore.
So our appeal is actually to the society within Gaza as well to the international community that in fact the ceasefire is just a start. It's
not an end at all. And we need to make sure that the hope that we have for people is not sufficient. We need to be able to implement our assistance at
scale.
[10:45:02]
DEAN: Yes. And as you're talking, we're watching video of people just clamoring to get hot food and what the scene is. Little children at the
front being pushed and how chaotic that scene is. How do you ensure that you can get food to the people who desperately need it, and that it can be
done in a safe way that reaches everyone that needs it?
RENARD: I mean, that's been the biggest challenge. In fact, over the last, I would say three months, is the fact that we were looting along the way.
But when our food reached our warehouse, we are in capacity to go to this kitchen. We are in capacity to go to these bakers. And that's why the
appeal that we make, it's not correct that you have the kids today queuing for a bit of water, perhaps a hot meal a day, and we can't even sustain the
bread that we were providing.
So again, for us, that's the light that we see is really to have this push where we go at scale. And then I hope that the next time we will again
encounter I can tell you that we've been managing to reach the hope of what people were telling me just two days ago.
DEAN: Yes. And hopefully those kids are going to have full bellies hopefully very soon.
Antoine, thank you so much for being here with us. We really appreciate it.
RENARD: Thanks to you.
DEAN: And I'll be back with more news in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DEAN: More now on the U.S. ban of TikTok. It's leaving more than -- it's leaving many of the 170 million users looking elsewhere. Already some are
signing up for another China based social media app called RedNote. And for the first time experiencing Chinese style censorship.
CNN's Will Ripley has more on that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Who else is here from TikTok?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, you all. We're from Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're from Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for welcoming us to the app.
CATHY MCMORRIS RODGERS (R), FORMER WASHINGTON REPRESENTATIVE: We do not trust TikTok will ever embrace American values.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With TikTok's future hanging by a thread, a huge surge of users are flooding a
surprise alternative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so much better than TikTok.
RIPLEY: RedNote, the English name for Xiaohongshu, meaning little red book, drawing comparisons to a collection of Mao Zedong's quotes, small enough to
carry around. RedNote is a Chinese Communist government monitored social media platform now topping Apple's U.S. App Store.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome, TikTok refugees. RedNote is not Instagram.
RIPLEY: Many say they came here out of spite.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I refuse to support Facebook, Meta, especially Elon Musk and X.
RIPLEY: And they're making unexpected cross-cultural connections.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey there. Fellow TikTok refugee here. And I just want to say I have no idea how to speak Chinese.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today I would like to teach you some Chinese.
RIPLEY: Some users searching for international romance or the perfect Chinese name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me help you to pick one that suits you.
RIPLEY: One post even recreates famous Chinese and Russian propaganda posters. Just days ago, this may have seemed unthinkable.
HEATHER ROBERTS, TIKTOK USER: I was scared that TikTok was going to go away. So I wanted to find an alternative.
RIPLEY: Heather Roberts from Texas says TikTok refugees like her are desperate to find a new platform, a new social media fix.
ROBERTS: I haven't been on RedNote for very long. I've only been on there for maybe three days and I found myself like, wow, this is very addicting.
I'd probably say it's a little bit more addicting than TikTok.
[10:50:00]
RIPLEY: An addicting algorithm, exactly what app developers want.
Experts say there are risks when it comes to the rise of another Chinese app. Just like TikTok, RedNote collects huge amounts of user data. China's
laws require companies to share that data with the government.
(Voice-over): But only if requested. Heavy censorship is already affecting American users, some getting their first taste of China's tightly
controlled internet. Users say posts on topics deemed sensitive by Chinese authorities are being deleted, including LGBTQ plus issues and even a
popular Japanese anime. Other posts face backlash, flooded with negative or offensive comments. Some new users report racist questions, including
whether it's OK to use the N word.
Let's say that TikTok goes away and a lot of Americans flood into these Chinese apps, is that a win for Beijing?
IVY YANG, CHINA TECH ANALYST: I think it really depends on Beijing's view on how much they need to be in control of the narrative.
RIPLEY (voice-over): As the U.S. Supreme Court and incoming Trump administration debate TikTok's fate, the rise of RedNote raises new
questions and concerns about Americans embracing yet another platform under Chinese government control.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (on-camera): Right now RedNote is recruiting people with excellent English language skills, saying that they'll be responsible for backend
data processing and analysis. Now, since Tuesday, we've made several attempts by e-mail and by phone to try to contact RedNote. So far, we've
not received a response. We want to know how they plan to handle this U.S. user data specifically. China's national security laws are pretty clear,
though. When you download any Chinese app, your data could be handed over to the authorities if requested.
Now, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs was asked about this on Wednesday, and they say that they've always supported and encouraged strengthening
people-to-people and cross-cultural exchanges. But experts are wondering how long they're going to allow this type of interaction on this social
media platform to continue.
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
DEAN: Thank you, Will.
Let's go now to the White House. The outgoing Biden administration just moments ago indicated it will not implement the ban that we've been
discussing this hour. Instead, they're going to let that fall to Trump and his administration.
President Biden is also trying to shore up his legacy with executive actions and an important opinion just released. He's declared the Equal
Rights Amendment is ratified. That could have an impact on women's rights, including reproductive freedom.
We have Arlette Saenz with us. This is her reporting.
And Arlette, tell us first more about this opinion.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jess, President Biden says he believes the Equal Rights Amendment is ratified and should be the
land of the law. But it's really unclear what happens next from here. The equal rights amendment was passed in 1972, and it enshrines women's rights.
Now, it was required that it be ratified by three quarters of the states in the country. That's about 38 states, and Virginia actually, back in 2020,
was the 38th state to ratify it. But then there were a lot of questions about what happens next, as there was a deadline for ratification that has
now expired, and also some of the states that had initially ratified it now say they do not.
President Biden says that he is siding with the opinion of the American Bar Association, saying that they have cleared all the necessary hurdles for
this to formally be added to the Constitution. The president, in a statement, said it is long past time to recognize the will of the American
people. In keeping with my oath and duty to the Constitution and country, I affirm what I believe and what three fourths of the states have ratified.
The 28th amendment is the law of the land.
Now, the next step would be for the archivist, Doctor Colleen Shogan, to publish this. But that's where this really hits a snag. She and the deputy
archivist back in December had released a statement saying that they were not planning to do that because there are some legal opinions, legal items
from the Office of Legal Counsel and the Justice Department that said that those ratification deadlines were enforceable.
And this morning, a representative from the National Archives said that they are sticking to that. The underlying legal and procedural issues have
not changed. Now, the White House was pressed on this matter. They said the national archivist is simply a ministerial position and said that it is
required that they publish this as an amendment to the Constitution. But this is something that will certainly face many legal challenges, as there
is now this gray area.
As President Biden is saying, that this is the law of the land but really what he has said right now does not appear to be fully enforceable.
DEAN: And, Arlette, I also want to ask you about TikTok. What has the White House said about that?
SAENZ: Well, Jess, the White House is basically saying that this is now in President-elect Donald Trump's court, as they are saying that
implementation of this TikTok ban will fall to the next administration. Moments ago, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre released a
statement reiterating President Biden's belief that TikTok should remain available to Americans but simply under American ownership or other
ownership that addresses the national security concerns identified by Congress in developing this law.
[10:55:09]
And then importantly, she says, given the sheer fact of timing, this administration recognizes the actions to implement the law simply must fall
to the next administration, which takes office on Monday.
Of course, President-elect Trumps inauguration is also taking part -- taking place over a holiday weekend, as Monday is also Martin Luther King
Day. So there is a lot of questions about what exactly happens next. The White House is signaling that they are not going to enforce this ban,
suggesting that they won't be leveling any fines on service providers or others who keep this app up and running.
And they're arguing that this is a decision up to Trump, something, I think, which Trump himself has also said. Now, there were some Democratic
lawmakers who had pressured the president to give them a 90-day extension. But White House officials don't believe that the president has those
authority. So ultimately, this ban and how it plays out will fall to the next president.
DEAN: Yes, it will be interesting to see. Arlette Saenz at the White House. Thank you so much.
That's going to do it for CONNECT THE WORLD. Stay with CNN. CNN NEWSROOM is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
