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Erin Burnett Outfront
Manhunt Intensifies After Gunman Kills 18 In Maine; Now: FBI At Suspect's Home: "You're Under Arrest". Aired 7-8p ET
Aired October 26, 2023 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:48]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, breaking news, flash bangs heard outside the home of the suspect in the deadly Maine shootings. Hundreds of officers over United States, along with the Coast Guard, is now hunting for the gunman who is said to be armed and obviously dangerous. We're going to take you live to the ground.
Plus, more breaking news here in Tel Aviv. The Israeli military planning more raids in Gaza, 2:00 a.m. this morning right now, after they launched the biggest assault on Gaza in ten years.
And this CNN exclusive, Michael Cohen's first interview since he came face to face with Donald Trump, testifying against his former boss in court, what went on behind the scenes, let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. Welcome to a special edition of OUTFRONT. I'm Erin Burnett live in Tel Aviv.
And tonight, we are following several breaking stories. Of course, in Maine, loud blasts have just been heard at the home of the gunman who police say killed 18 innocent people. Here in Israel, where Israeli troops are preparing to enter Gaza again after what hours ago was the biggest incursion into the 25-mile long Gaza strip in a decade. Huge developments here in Israel.
But, first, live pictures out of Maine, where the intense manhunt for 40-year-old, Robert Card, is now hitting 24 hours, after the state's deadliest mass shooting on record. Hundreds of officers from local, state and federal agencies are now combing the largely rural area, air, land, and sea. According to police, Card's deadly rampage started around 7:00 Eastern yesterday at a bowling alley. Minutes later, a second attack at a restaurant, 18 innocent people were killed, murdered. Thirteen others are now being treated for injuries.
And we do have a new picture from Central Maine Medical Center of doctors treating a patient who was rushed into the hospital after the mass shooting.
At this hour, though, it is a terror, a reign of terror. Residents in several towns sheltered in place. The college Bates College is on lockdown and along the northern U.S. border, Canadian officials have also issued an armed a dangerous alert to officers there.
Tonight, adding to the worries, law enforcement officials tell CNN that Card is a certified firearms instructor, and a member of the U.S. Army Reserve. He said he struggled with his mental health. Those officials say that.
They also said, in the summer, he spent two weeks in a psychiatric facility after making statements about hearing voices. Nonetheless, obviously, he had the means to kill.
We have a team of reporters standing by. Omar Jimenez is OUTFRONT live in Lewiston, Maine. Josh Campbell is live working his sources. Pamela Brown and Tom Foreman also with us.
We have every angle of this developing story covered at this hour. I want to begin with you, Omar, because you've been there covering this latest developments and this manhunt as we now understand it.
What is the very latest you're learning on the ground there tonight?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was exactly 24 hours ago right now that this suspect would have been making his way to the location just behind me at this checkpoint to continue what was a shooting spree across multiple locations, according to police. And 24 hours later, this remains an active manhunt. Police following up on his many leads as they can. We know there are FBI agents on address associated with the suspect.
Senators Susan Collins of Maine has said there around 80 FBI agents assisting with the search. The Coast Guard says they are assisting with the surge from the air and from the water, all of them trying to get closer to finding this person police say, killed at least 18 people and shot of the lives of so many more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Tonight, a multi-agency manhunt is underway for the suspect in two mass shootings in Maine.
GOV. JANET MILLS, MAINE: I am profoundly saddened to stand before you today to report that 18 people lost their lives, and 13 people injured in last night's attack.
JIMENEZ: Both incidents happen Wednesday night in the town of Lewiston.
POLICE: We got multiple victims, I'm seeing multiple victims, I need every unit you can find.
JIMENEZ: State police say the first call came in at 6:56 p.m., reporting a man shooting at the Just-in-Time Recreation which includes a bowling alley.
[19:05:01]
Then, at 7:08 p.m., the communications center received multiple 911 calls about an active shooter inside Schemengees Bar and Grille, about a ten-minute drive away from the bowling alley. DISPATCHER: Respond to the town of Lewiston for two active shooter
locations. Again, the town of Lewiston for active shooter incidents, all available units to Lewiston.
JIMENEZ: At 8:06, police released photos of the shooter to the media.
COL. WILLIAM ROSS, MAINE STATE POLICE: The victims of the Just-in- Time's establishment, seven people are deceased there, one female and six males. Victims of the Schemengees's billiards, eight are deceased. Seven males inside the establishment, one male outside the establishment.
JIMENEZ: Three other victims were pronounced dead at local hospitals. One man at the bowling alley, during the shooting says, he hid inside a bowling machine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of nowhere, he just came in, and there was a loud pop. I just booked it, down the lane, and I slid basically where the pins are, and hiding on top of the machine for about ten minutes until the cops got there.
JIMENEZ: Megan Hutchinson tells CNN that she was inside the bowling alley with her ten-year-old daughter, Zoe, who was grazed by one of the bullets. She was injured, but not hospitalized.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's shocking, something that you think would never happen. I never thought I would grow up and get a bullet in my leg. Why? Why do people do this?
JIMENEZ: At 9:26 p.m., Lewiston police received a call identifying the shooter as 40-year-old, Robert Card, former Army reservist. By 9:56 p.m., investigators found Card's white Subaru hatchback near a boat launch in the nearby community of Lisbon, where authorities are now actively searching for him.
CHIEF RYAN MCGEE, LISBON POLICE DEPARTMENT: We had everything from people calling about noises in the basement, noises in the wood. Suspicious people, gunshots, all night long since the incident in Lewiston. We have a whole department working.
JIMENEZ: Now, an entire community is under lockdown, being told to shelter in place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very unnerving right now. Seeing the cops coming around there, that -- that makes me feel a million times better. In the situation like this, I wish I had a firearm.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ (on camera): And, look, the sun has gone down into another night with the shooter still being out there. When you drive across town, people are listening to the shelter in place orders that have been affected. Restaurants and convenience stores that you think would be packed on a Thursday night are completely empty or closed. Schools will continue to be closed into Friday as well as residents continue to ask that question, when will this suspect be caught -- Erin. BURNETT: All right. Omar, thank you very much in Lewiston.
And let's go now to Josh Campbell, been working his law enforcement sources since the story broke, also, of course, former FBI supervisory special agent.
So, Josh, the center of this, what are you learning from your sources about what is going on behind the scenes right now on the search? I mean, it's terrifying. This is a person who is willing to kill 18 people and a whole lot more who is on the loose right now and who knows how much firepower.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, and the clock is ticking. Authorities worried that the suspect could conduct additional violence if he is not found. I'm told there's what is happening behind the scenes, they're seen and unseen essentially. We know the fury of police activity there, multiple agencies, but also behind the scenes, I'm told that law enforcement has set up a social media exploitation team, pouring over the suspect's online accounts, trying to look for any information about his intentions, trying to identify any potential logins they could used to help geolocating his whereabouts. Also identify any potential associates who could be used as witnesses.
A lot of actions taking place behind the scenes. It's worth noting, Erin, that our colleague Hannah Rabinowitz is reporting that authorities just recovered a firearm in the suspect's vehicle. They're working to determine whether that was the firearm and that was used in this attack. Of course, we know this is an individual who is a firearm instructor, who could have multiple weapons. So, even if that turns out to be the gun that I was used in this mass shooting, authorities say they continue to treat him as armed and dangerous, Erin.
BURNETT: Right, right, maybe don't -- you don't know what you don't.
CAMPBELL: Yeah.
BURNETT: So, Josh, obviously the manhunt is massive here because they are so worried and the clock is ticking. You got law enforcement from all over the country flooding the area. And we heard Omar talking about, you know, looking into the water as well because of where his car was parked by the dock.
What more can you tell us?
CAMPBELL: Yeah, just a multitude of agencies. I mean, if you look at this list, we obviously have the state police in Maine who were leading the investigation, along with local law enforcement. But there are other agencies with specialties and firearms analysis, with specialties in fugitive apprehensions.
The U.S. Coast Guard is there, searching the waterways to try to identify this individual. And then a host of other agencies from the Department of Homeland Security, all bringing their resources to bear, bringing that assistance as this manhunt now continues into hour 24, again, trying to find this person and get them off the streets, Erin. [19:10:11]
BURNETT: Yeah. I mean, it has been exactly 24 hours on the run, and he has, so far eluded law enforcement. Thank you very much, Josh.
I want to go now to former FBI counterterrorism special agent Tim Clemente, and former FBI agent Rob D'Amico.
And thanks so much to both of you. We have spoken through the years, obviously with the Boston bomber as well.
Tim, you're a former FBI SWAT member. For 24 hours in, what are you doing right now if you're part of this manhunt?
TIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM SPECIAL AGENT: First of all, we're being as careful as you can and moving as quickly as possible. Exigency is the utmost importance in a situation like this. This is an active shooter that has not been active for 24 hours, but he is still a mass murderer.
And the fact that he is on the loose puts anyone in the community in danger where he might be. His willingness to go into bowling alley and billiards place and kill as many people as he could means there's probably no safe spot for anyone right now in that vicinity. So, law enforcement has to act as if he's standing in front of a target about the pull the trigger but to move very quickly. They have to be a still as they can, but the population has to be maintaining their safety first.
BURNETT: Rob, where are you looking for him? Do you leave everything in the car at the boat dock?
ROB D'AMICO, FORMER FBI AGENT: I do. I think this was most of it was planned in his had beforehand. He probably went through this a number of times.
There's a reason why the car was there. It could be he had a boat. It could be that he had a car or cars there had their keys left in it, like the one in Pennsylvania.
So, there's a reason that vehicle was there. I think the biggest thing is to determine whether he got in another vehicle, did he go on foot or, did he even go by water? That really dictates how the manhunts going to be because time and space, if you got a vehicle, you could be a lot further away. If you went on foot, it gets more dangerous. But then, you can use technology to help separate and try to detect him at a safer distance instead of putting patrol officers, even tactical teams on top of them.
BURNETT: Tim, what you make of the fact that it appears he had an exit plan? I mean, these incidents are horrific in America, and they happen, which is unacceptable and get real. But he had an exit plan. What does that say to you?
CLEMENTE: Well, you know, Erin, as we've covered in so many of these tragedies over the years, a lot of these situations and suicide or suicide by cop. It's clear that the offset that wasn't his immediate plan. It does not mean he has not gone somewhere and shot himself in the head in a corner, that might be the eventuality that we find in this case.
But the fact that he fled, didn't stay there for standoff with police, didn't kill himself immediately on the scene has this happened so many times, tells me he has the will to live. We do not have a motive yet as to why he went in those places, but that will to live means he will also fight against law enforcement if he encounters them.
BURNETT: Tim and Rob, stay with me here. I want to go to Brian Todd, because he is near the home where Card was known to last be. A lot more police activity and FBI activity right now since they returned to the home.
Brian, I know we've got issues with lighting. But, you can see, tell us what you're seeing right now.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Erin. The reason you have issues of lighting is because police are coming to all media positions where I am and told us to turn off lights because you're creating a dangerous situation for law enforcement if we had our lights on.
So, our lights are off. I'm going to step away from the camera. What we have just seen is multiple law enforcement vehicles coming up to the last known address of the suspect Robert Card. It is to the left of where those flashing lights are and kind of between the two sets of flashing lights into the left. I know you can't see anything between those two, but that is where it is.
There are a whole bunch of FBI and other law enforcement evidence trucks of just pulled in here. Of course, earlier, our team witnessed FBI and other law enforcement approach the house and used flash bangs to try to, you know, enter the house. That standard procedure according to our Miller, and Josh Carroll, that -- excuse me, Josh Campbell. That is almost standard procedure in any case where they try to approach a house and they're not sure whether the suspect might be in there or not.
They used flash bangs to try and just, obviously, for the shock effect in for the speed, to try and get into the house. After that, they were their processing staff, and then a bunch of law enforcement vehicles left, and of course now, they have just come back.
So, that's what you're seeing. There is someone speaking on a loudspeaker, I can't quite make out what he's saying.
[19:15:07]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk outside with your hands up.
TODD: Okay. One of my colleagues said he said walk outside (AUDIO GAP)
So, Erin, that's -- that is what I can tell you what we're witnessing right now. BURNETT: All right. Let's keep these pictures up while you're with us, if we can, while you can.
Tim, walk outside with your hands up, mass law enforcement, flash bangs. They obviously think he's in there right now.
CLEMENTE: They think he's somewhere right there. It does not mean he's necessarily in the house, the fact that they're moving to the left side of the house as the reporter just stated, might be that there's a wooded area or a shed or something. And it's possible that they saw movement, heard something, and so they're acting as if it's him, even if it might be a dog or another person. They have to treat it as if it is armed and dangerous individual right there.
BURNETT: Brian, is there anything else that they have said? I haven't heard the loudspeaker again?
You're under arrest.
TODD: Yeah, Erin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're under arrest, come out.
TODD: Okay, one person, one of the loud speaker, one of the people said, you're under arrest, come out with your hands up.
We also saw law enforcement personnel fanning into the field near his house to the left there before all this is unfolding. Now, look, you can see, they've got a spotlight on a window in the house. You can see that no. They have just said come out with your hands up, you are under arrest.
BURNETT: All right. We're moving the camera over. I see that spotlight. Our viewers can see that spotlight on the house.
TODD: Yeah, yeah. One person was just heard saying we don't anyone else getting hurt.
BURNETT: All right, and I see all zooming in. And we're watching this. Yeah.
TODD: I see some movement over there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come up with your hands up, Robert Card, we know you are inside.
BURNETT: Uh-huh.
All right. We are watching right now. Police in Bowdoin, Maine, right now, the spotlight is on the house of the shooter, Mr. Card. On the second floor window of that house, they have said you are under arrest, come out with your hands up. And they have spoken his name.
And do you have any sense, Brian, where you're standing right, now you said multiple, multiple law enforcement. Is there a giant ring of them? I know it's dark, that should turn the lights off because that could jeopardize this. All the media are sounding their in the dark, right? Any sense of how many of them there are?
TODD: We don't really, Erin. We know there were several vehicles. I'm trying to make out what he is saying.
BURNETT: Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said walk outside, if there's anyone else inside.
TODD: Erin, they've just told him to walk outside. They asked if anyone else was in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've got someone.
TODD: Can somebody help me attach this? Shit, hold on. I got it, I got it.
BURNETT: All right. As we're watching this, Tim, anything stand out to you about how they're handling this right now?
CLEMENTE: Well, I can see they have an armored vehicle, so I can imagine they're using that for cover, the police officers that are within the armored vehicles are probably using the doors or engine blocks of their cars for cover because this guy has got an AR, he's got an affective range of about 600 meters. They're well within the range, they have overwhelming firepower but it does not mean he can't fire more than them.
So, they're obviously using positions to cover and calling him out rather than going in after him. This could end up being a long standoff or he might come out quickly if he is in there.
But I doubt very much that anyone will enter the building under than maybe using (INAUDIBLE) another armored vehicle to ram the structure and. That's the only way I see in a situation like this.
BURNETT: Rob, what you see again? It's complete darkness. The police have asked the media to turn it off.
D'AMICO: I've had several cases like this. So, they could've seen something, they could've sent a robot in. They could have sent something in, but they're not sure if it's a person. So, they're going to talk to him like it is a person until they can prove otherwise.
They're not going to go in the house. There's all kinds of reasons not to, but they're going to start using technology. They can use robots second climb stairs, they can fly drones in.
[19:20:05]
It's just too dangerous right now to put everyone inside.
So they're going to keep talking to him, they're going to dialogue, have dialogue like he is listening and he is in there, even if he is not. But something cue them that they think a person or him is in there and they are just going to keep talking to him. They have the time. There's no reason, there's no hostages that they know of that they risked their lives to do an entry.
BURNETT: Tim, is there any sense that they would have used like --
TODD: Erin?
BURNETT: -- a sensory technology or something to know he's in there?
Sorry, go ahead, Brian.
TODD: One thing we just heard an instruction come out is follow my instructions as what one of the law enforcement officer said. He mentioned something about a truck in the driveway, I believe he was directing him to walk out of the driveway and follow instructions. That is the last thing we heard.
(INAUDIBLE)
TODD: Erin, did you hear the loudspeaker?
BURNETT: Could you make that out, Brian?
TODD: I can tell you some -- yes, I could.
BURNETT: Tell us, yes.
TODD: They're saying anyone in the house, anyone in the house we do not want anyone to get hurt, we don't want to hurt anyone, please come out and walk to the front of the truck. We assume there's -- we can't see the pick up truck or whatever truck is on the driveway, but we assume there's one there of course. These were just more instructions for whoever is in that house.
BURNETT: All right. Brian, of course, as we're watching this.
Tim, it sounds like what they're saying, follow my instructions, a truck in the driveway, the way they are talking, seems very sure that there's somebody in there.
CLEMENTE: Yeah, Erin, but as Rob just said, whether there is or isn't they have to treat it as if he is there and it is the suspect they are talking to. So, any movement in the House could have been a person blowing anything would lead them -- might lead them to believe somebody is in there, they have to treat it as if it is a armed and dangerous subject is the person there.
And so, it might be a law enforcement truck that's in the driveway and they're asking him to go towards that. I doubt they would have him go towards his own vehicle. So, there probably is a vehicle positions in the driveway, and they want him to move towards that and the instructions they will give will be hands visible, up above your head, come out slowly and they will have him turn around and walk backwards. They will probably have him lift up his shirt or jacket slowly with his left hand if he is right-handed, as he appeared to be in the images yesterday, to make sure he's not carrying a weapon anywhere on him, doesn't have a suicide device or anything else. And they have to make sure there are not any threats, then they will
have him get on his knees or gets prone before they would approach him, while they are still covering themselves from the house just in case there's another shooter or another threat in the house or anywhere near the house.
So, they're going to take this, as Rob said, very slowly. There is no ticking clock on this if there are no innocents that might be at risk directly around him, other than law enforcement themselves.
BURNETT: Chuck, as Brian standing there --
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: And, Erin, if can you hear me?
BURNETT: Our Brian Todd -- yes, I can.
TODD: All right, we can just make out another command from the man in the loudspeaker. He said that the person inside should come out with nothing in their hands, that he can guarantee their safety if they come out, and walk to the front of the truck and follow instructions.
BURNETT: Josh Campbell, FBI -- former FBI special agent, what do you see here and what are you hearing, of course, from your sources in this moment?
CAMPBELL: We certainly have a lot of questions because of this location, as Brian has been there reporting, there was a report earlier that sounded like explosions which could have been flash bangs, and it was curious because we had known about the address that this location for sometime. So, you know, presumably law enforcement would have as well.
We've seen cases in the past where if law enforcement has an address of a potential fugitive, they will set up surveillance on that location, whether physical surveillance, electronic surveillance, just in case someone surfaces or they comeback.
So, just a little curious that we heard that activity earlier today, but we did not see a fury of law enforcement activity. But now, as Brian is reporting, they've been going so far to have the media killed the lights in order to not illuminates, not put a spotlight on this police officers and back light them essentially as they're attempting to resolve whatever has been in place here.
[19:25:03]
BURNETT: Right.
CAMPBELL: It just shows us that we do not know if they got some new piece of intelligence that the suspect might be there, or, I should note, this could all be precautionary. We've seen this air where the FBI's what teams have shifted somewhat. We're used to, you know, these past dynamic and trees where they go in, they knock down the door if they have a warrant, that has shifted in the last couple of years, where FBI SWAT is doing what they call call-outs, which we're seeing right now. If there is not an urgent threat to life, an imminent threat to life of someone in that house, certainly an innocent bystander, time is on their side.
So, we're seeing exactly what they're doing right now, providing instruction. Of course, a key thing, we don't know if they're talking to someone they know is in the house, or if there's precautionary as a matter of trying to clear that house.
BURNETT: Rob, as just a matter of point here, as we hear the loud speaker --
TODD: And, Erin, we just heard some more.
BURNETT: Yes, go ahead, Brian.
TODD: OK, the man on the megaphone said, we realized this could be intimidating for you, but we need you to come out when nothing in your hands, with your hands on the air, and walk to the front of the truck and follow my instructions.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: -- that they could guarantee their safety.
BURNETT: Right, right.
And, Rob, is there a possibility that they may indeed know he's there, not just because they saw him but even we talk about technology that they would have a heat sensor, at least that they would know that there's a human being in there, right? Is it possible that they have this information already?
D'AMICO: There is different technology you could use to see if there is a human type of thing. Also, they could've had cellular that or that if he still had his phone, they knowingly had it or something along those lines. There's so many things they're going to treat it like he's in there, and they're going to point where after a while, they have to send the robot in, possibly a dog, that would react, and the robot, sending them with technology they have there.
Like I said, you can get drones in the windows to look that have night vision. You can even fly drones in the house so that we could look for somebody.
There is one case where the suspect took one shot and we all thought he was -- he killed himself. He was laying on the floor like he had killed himself, and it turns out he was alive waiting for a tactical team to come in to ambush them.
BURNETT: Brian, can you see any of the police? I know it's hard because of the darkness. But, to sense their state of alertness or readiness or to try to give any kind of gauge of what think could be about to happen here?
TODD: You know, we can't see the numbers. We do know we saw some personnel fanning out to the left there. There is a feel that's kind of adjacent to his house. You know, we assume that they have surrounded it.
One of the drones just came down. That may or not mean anything. But we don't get a sense of the shared number because it is so pitch black. And all we can see are the vehicles that are at the foot of the driveway and kind of up the street a little bit. Again, they're being very patient and very calm in their appeals to the person or persons who are inside there.
BURNETT: Tim Clemente, as you look at, this obviously this is his house, they know this. They saw the car at the boat dock. This has been a place under complete surveillance since this happened. If he is in there, how do you think he got back in there?
CLEMENTE: Well, as Rob said, he may have staged the vehicle, an initial impression with the vehicle found by the river was that he got into a boat or went into the river or went on foot from there.
But, he could've easily had another vehicle there or stolen vehicle, done carjacking, anything is possible at this point, and easily taken himself back to his residents in another vehicle, parked a block or so away, so it wouldn't be connected to him in any way or to that location. And he could have gone back there to resupply or to hold up.
And so, the fact that they are there again after having apparently done either a search warrant or something on the residence earlier with a flash bank, that we heard go off earlier tells me that they searched the residents and maybe they did not search any other place and they just went in looking for evidence that might have supported his acts and then something alerted them to the fact that he may have just returned after they were there. That's also a possibility.
He could have been hiding in the woods. They did a search warrant execution of the house. Threw some flash bangs, went through, found some evidence, he left the residence when they're done, and then he returned to the house then thinking they have gone away.
BURNETT: Brian, I hear helicopter or is that a drone?
[19:30:00]
I actually -- I think I can see the lights in your shot, too.
TODD: Yeah, there is a helicopter that is flying now nearby crossing into the area where these personal are. There are two drones that have just been launch in the air. One of them is going up.
BURNETT: Oh, I see one going up now. Yeah.
TODD: They're kind of descending. Yeah, yeah. Now they're back up and moving around.
There does seem to be movement there, but again, we don't want to read too much into this. It just could be for their own positioning to see if they can get a look at anyone who might be near a window or something. The chopper moved past the area.
BURNETT: Night vision technology, uh-huh.
TODD: It's interesting, the person on the megaphone, every, I would say, 20 to 30 seconds would just say in appeal to the person inside. We have not heard the person on the megaphone now for several minutes. And, of course, we don't really know what that means.
BURNETT: Josh, we're looking at the spotlight there has been on this one window of the house. Now we can see the drone, so anyone watching, the drones are those red dots. Each of the drones are two red dots. So, one of them is not visible right now at least from my view of what we're looking at but one of them is.
What do you see here, Josh, when you now see these drones going up? This is all happening in complete darkness now.
CAMPBELL: That is so interesting, because obviously we've been covering this man hunt now over 24 hours, and up until this point, we have been discussing how the cover of darkness provides the benefit to the suspect.
Obviously, this manhunt went overnight making a very difficult for law enforcement. We really started to see those resources come in and flood earnest during the daylight as they were doing these searches. If it turns out that this individual is in that house, interestingly, that could shift the benefit now to law enforcement. I mean, there are a number of different ways that the FBI and other tactful teams, a number of pieces of technology, which I won't get into much detail, but they can use to try to determine whether they are actually is indeed a person in there, under the cover of darkness that allows authorities to get a closer to this resident without being spotted.
Of course, we have been talking about since the reporting from last night. We know this is someone with tactical proficiency, this is a former firearms instructor. This has long been and according to our law enforcement sources, a major concern for police that even if they came across, him some of that amount of accuracy could pose a deadly threat to those officers searching for him even from a distance.
But here, under the cover of darkness, I'll say what we don't know, and that is if there is someone in this house, if that turns out to be the case we could start to see a shift now at the cover of darkness could start to benefit law enforcement.
The final thing I'll point out, Erin, is that we are seeing, because it is dark, we're obviously limited in number of police assets we can see, this obviously somewhat of a rural area, if police have a confident -- if they're confident enough that they have surrounded this area, you're not going to continue to see pouring more resources pouring in and in and in.
At some point, that's diminishing returns. But if they have this perimeter lockdown, we may not see exactly what they're doing as they make a approach. It appears the lights may just be the shot there. Again, time is on their side right now, if they believe this individual is in the house.
But I'll just stipulate as we've said before, that it is, you know, not unusual for law enforcement if they get a tip that someone is in a location, or maybe this is precautionary. They will still go through the same safety procedures to try and make a call, even if there is not actually a person in there, but they're trying to go through the steps to rule that out. No need to rush in at this point if there's not imminent danger.
BURNETT: All right. Brian, they did appear from the picture that you and your photojournalists team have taken that spotlight off that window. Is that indeed the case?
TODD: Yes, Erin, I think we believe they have, it is hard to make out. I have to be honest, but they have at least shifted the spotlight. I can see something over there that looks like a spotlight but I am not sure what it is. I can see the spotlight shifting now. It's on a tree.
It seems to be on part of the house, there's a chopper flying nearby and the drone. The drone is not really air bone. Now it is, it's getting up there. But they have clearly shifted the spotlight, Erin. We don't know what that means.
[19:35:02]
BURNETT: All right. We're watching this. We're obviously not going anywhere.
Casey Jordan joins the conversation now, a profiler.
Casey, you see this obviously the point is that it's been made very clearly here, they believe he may be in there. They may be speaking to him. They may know his pressure and, there he may also be doing this because it's possible he's in there and they have a tip. But, they're not 100 percent sure.
So, what does it say to you if he is indeed, after all of this, evading law enforcement for 24 hours in a manhunt after he killed 18 people, willing to kill many more, would have gone possibly back to his home which is what we are looking at right now?
CASEY JORDAN, FBI PROFILER: It is fascinating to me, Erin, and that they are now 24 hours later. Of course, once they have the identity of the shooter yesterday, they were going to that house. It would have immediately gone inside and swept it and look for him there and clear this.
So, the idea that they are back 24 hours later really might to just that he returns there or perhaps he was hiding in there and they did not detect him the first time around. I have a hard time believing it.
But, of course, we are fascinated by the white SUV that was left by that boat launch, because increasingly that could be a red herring. I heard a rumor that his family said his boat was missing, so it's almost like, was he trying to make law enforcement think he had escaped in a boat, go down the river, gone out to sea?
You know, we have the coast guard searching, the entire coast for him, when in fact, the recent activity, it looks like maybe he's been hiding in plain sight. We do know, of course, it could be nothing. It could be, as somebody suggested, which fantastic reporting, the fluttering of a curtain inside, the shifting of a shadow.
But, they are not going to stop until they have ruled out every possibility that he's in there. As everyone's pointed out, we have time on our side, unless they believe there's a living hostage inside, they are going to wait continue making those demands for whoever is inside to come outside, with their hands off, promised their safety is insured if they come out and cooperate.
But the shifting of the lights are different windows and places on the house, makes me wonder if they do see some signs of activity inside. This is all unfolding in real time.
The psychology of the shooter is a big question mark. Of course, we just learned today that a note had been left. We don't know the contents of that note. Perhaps, there was something in that note that we discovered, that took them back to the house.
So, everything is unfolding. We will know the motive if we get him alive, but, we don't know for sure that he's in there. So everything remains a big question mark and mystery, right?
BURNETT: Tim, having been in these situations before, and you've laid this out very clearly, but now we really are seeing the pitch darkness. For anyone joining, this is right now, the live shot, Brian Todd, his photojournalist team outside the home of Robert Card, the alleged shooter in Maine, Lewiston, Maine, Bowdoin, Maine, here with his home, and surrounded by law enforcement, they've asked all the cameras to -- all the media to turn off lights.
There has been a spotlight. They've been speaking over a loudspeaker, instructing anyone to come out with their hands up and turned themselves in repeatedly. We have not heard the loudspeaker, Tim, in a few minutes. We have seen the spotlight which had been illuminating a window now turned off.
Having been in these situations before, can you piece together what could be happening?
CLEMENTE: Sure, Erin. I would disagree with one thing Josh Campbell said. That, is we own the night. We at least, federal agencies, the FBI and other agencies have the technology to literally owned the night. It's maybe that they turned off that spotlight because that illuminated the window for the naked eye to see. If they're using night vision technology, infrared or anything else on the vehicles or on the individual persons that are there, they can see more if that natural light is not overwhelming them.
So, it may be that there is movement they want to look for with the drones, or helicopters out above, because the FBI choppers have a great deal of technology, a lot of it very classified that used for international security cases. But that technology could be at play right now, and that gives law enforcement a tremendous advantage over any individual, anywhere.
BURNETT: And we did hear helicopter and we are seeing drones. So, again, as you are looking at the screen, when you see the red dots, we have seen two drones, each of them having two red dots. So we had seen four.
Now that, you could see that spotlight, that is the home on the left side of your screen. Right now, partially illuminated, right below where that light seems to be cutting off with some sort of shadow, is the window that had been illuminated.
Josh, as we are looking at, this is there anything you're able to tell us about the type of drones and technology that they could be using here, and what it could be telling?
[19:40:04]
I'm sorry we don't have Josh.
Tim, do you know anything about that?
CLEMENTE: I'm sorry, Erin. I didn't hear the full question. What technology they might be using?
BURNETT: I was asking about the drone specifically, which I can see in the shot right now, it's just describing to anyone watching that each of the drones is basically to read lights. So, we had seen two drones, for red lights, I don't know where they are right now but what those drones may be equipped with or able to do.
CLEMENTE: Well, I would imagine that at the very least they have cameras, most likely an infrared camera they could see in the dark. They may have other, flare, forward-looking infrared which is -- there is a vast array of different levels of infrared technology and thermal imagery that can be used and can be used on a drone.
So, that gives them the ability to -- if they feel that this fact of the spotlight moved from the house to possibly towards the trees, maybe those who were in the woods where there heard something in the woods, and the fact that they heard something maybe why they are not speaking on the loudspeaker anymore, because they want to be able to monitor the sounds in the woods more closely to see if there's movement there. And having infrared or thermal imaging technology allows them to also look for heat source, which could be the suspect or could be an animal.
You know, the temperature imagery of a large animal, a large mammal and human being are very similar. But the more advanced technology will be able to identify the person way more than a simple infrared image.
BURNETT: Yes. Brian Todd, I know you're standing outside the shot here in the darkness. Right by what we are looking at. What are you able to see right now? TODD: Well, Erin, we can tell you is that the spotlight has shifted a
couple of times since you last came to us. I am not able to say exactly how it shifted or where they're training, but it has shifted which could indicate several things. Maybe they're kind of looking at other areas of the house, and trying to figure out if there's any windows or anything like that. But it has been shifting from that original kind of spotlight where they had it turned on the window.
We can also tell you that the dialogue has completely stopped that I'm going to guesstimates here that we have not heard a word from the man and a life you can for close to 15 or 20 minutes.
BURNETT: Casey, what does that signal to you? Just to remind everybody what we have heard over the loudspeaker, conveyed to anybody who might be inside that home was follow my instructions, come to the truck outside the driveway, walk out, put your hands up in the air. We know this may be intimidating for you. You won't be hurt if you come outside.
Those sorts of messages repeatedly, but it has been as Brian said about 15 minutes maybe or so since we have heard that last come over the loudspeaker.
JORDAN: And we've all been waiting and watching with bated breath to see if anyone comes out. So, I am definitely not the expert on the strategy. You're going to have to go back to Josh and Tim and Rob on this. But it really does appear to me that they are shifting strategies, or that they have shifted over the other side and turn the lights off, because they are trying to use a tactic to perhaps get inside or see inside more clearly.
It -- they could be completely a means of if you were citing out whoever might be inside by switching tactics, switching the spotlight of the house, trying to make them perhaps relax and lower their gourd a little bit for what could be the next stage of this.
But I do agree, they're not going to risk life and limb to go crushing through the front door, knowing that a man with an AR-15 might be inside. So, technology and time are on our side here. This could take hours, this could take hours.
But I think that, you know, they take everything that is happening, and processes and analyze it and come up with their next step. There's a textbook way of handling these things, but it's like a flow chart, as things happens or don't happen, they might move on to another option or opportunity for what is the best strategy next.
So, you know, you have to think fast on your feet. You have to take all the variables. I think it's quite amazing we get to witness this.
BURNETT: It certainly is. Josh Campbell, former FBI special agent, of course, reporting on this for us.
Josh, what are you learning right now?
CAMPBELL: So, we're hearing from the Maine department of public safety, a spokesperson saying they're not positive that Robert Card is in this house. They're simply doing what they're calling their, quote, due diligence, which we have been saying all along. If there is not 100 percent indication that the suspect is there, but if they got any type of indication either through intelligence or through some other means of an individual, a witness, they could launch resources to a home like this in short order.
[19:45:07]
But at least according to authorities in Maine, they're saying they're not positive that he's they're doing their due diligence. Now, it's important to point out that as we've been, you know, saying throughout the evening here, that this area is somewhat rural. They have plenty of assets they could launch in and around that area.
I repeat what I was saying earlier about, you know, last night, authorities who are there on the ground, obviously, we're analyzing this from afar, but authorities that we're speaking to on the ground are saying that it is difficult for them to in the evening when the suspect was on the run. If you got him located in a particular place like this, authorities have a lot more leeway and what have they bring assets towards that residents.
So, they're doing all of that due diligence right now. We saw the launching of drones. They have other technology that they can easily move into that location. And as I was mentioning earlier, you know, I've been saying throughout the days since we heard those flash bangs, you can't read too much into that because, you know, law enforcement will take particular cautions, particularly we've seen instances where authorities go to arrest someone, particularly someone who's violent, particularly someone who may have experience in firearm proficiency, or, you know, building incendiary devices, to be on the lookout for that suspect, leaving behind booby traps, for example.
So, you know, we see authorities very conservative in how they make entry. It doesn't mean someone's inside. And so, there's a lot of steps they have to go through.
Final point here, obviously time is on the side of the authorities. We have to keep saying that. We want to know what this is, and we want to see resolution. They're not in a hurry right now unless they got a sense of there's an imminent danger. We have no indication that's the case right now, Erin.
BURNETT: Right, right, they've got to get it right.
And, Brian Todd, just that light that keeps going up right now in front of the house.
TODD: Yes, the light is continuing to shift, Erin. And at one point, either that light or another spotlight pointed right at us. Then, it shifted back. So, they are making some adjustments there.
There is movement on the ground, but again, it is very slow and methodical movement. Don't anyone to read anything into that movement. And we can't reveal the specifics of it. But, again, it seems to be methodical. They seem to be making some adjustments here.
BURNETT: Yes, yes, we can see that.
All right. We are going to take a very brief break as we watch this unfold with Brian Todd in Bowdoin, Maine. We'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:51:10]
BURNETT: All right. You're looking live at obviously what appears to be a dark screen, but this is the home of Robert Card in Bowdoin, Maine. There's been a mass law enforcement presence surrounding the home. Obviously, hugely significant after a statewide search, warnings all the way up in Canada, search for the coast guard in the water. They are now back around his home.
They have been instructing anyone inside over a loudspeaker to come up with their hands up. They've been given instructions repeatedly. This all started about two or three minutes past 7:00 Eastern Time.
And then, there's that red there is the drone going up. The instruction on the loudspeaker continued for about 15 or 20 minutes, but we haven't heard any of those since. There have been a spotlight, but right now, the house is not eliminated. It is in darkness.
Brian Todd is in this picture right on the side, looking at this darkness. I know they have instructed the media to turn off their lights that this could interfere with any action of what's going on there. Brian, what are you seeing right now?
TODD: So, Erin, we have seen movement of a vehicle. You have to be very careful not to be specific about what we have seen that vehicle do. But again, it's very -- I have to stress that it does not seem to be moving with urgency. A vehicle has moved, as you mentioned the spotlight has been shifting.
We don't see the spotlight trained on any particular thing. There is some for the elimination of a tree or something next to the house. So, there has been movement. There are air assets in the air buzzing around this area. And we don't want to give to my specifics about those either.
There seems to be drones are positioning themselves at various times. That's what I can tell you right. And again, now, I think a very important point to mention is we have not heard dialogue from law enforcement officers on the loudspeaker who is trying to communicate with whoever was inside, maybe inside.
We have not heard any dialogue, any commands, any pleas for probably more than 30 minutes now.
BURNETT: Yes. And, Brian, as you are speaking, I want everyone to understand it may have been join to some viewers of the shots seem to change. You saw the lightness of the sky above the tree line. I just want to be clear, our Shimon Prokupecz is at a different angle
around the house. And you are looking at a different camera right now, a different photojournalist team looking at the house. You can see illumination of the tree. That's probably Shimon's head there. Illumination of the three, and now, this is back to where Brian Todd is standing much closer as they are describing it.
So, Brian, use it as description is that there has not been any urgency in terms of the movement, but that that spotlight is still shifting, to remind anyone or tell anyone just joining, that spotlight had been on the actual house which is right in the center of that darkness, illuminating very clearly one window.
TODD: That's right. And you got the impression when they had that window illuminated, Erin, that they -- you know, and at that same time, they were communicating with someone who could have been inside. They were given command and pleas and appeals for the person to come out with their hands in the air with nothing in their hands, saying they can guarantee their safety, and said they understood this could be intimidating for them, but they needed the person to come out with nothing in their hands, and then walk to the front of a truck in the driveway and follow instructions.
Those were some of the things we have heard, law enforcement on a loudspeaker say, while that spotlight was at the front of the house. The spotlight, as you mentioned, has been shifting. Vehicles have been shifting. Air assets like drones have been moving around and positioning.
[19:55:03]
You know, putting it all together, it just seems like they're trying to, number one, be patient whoever they're doing and not indeed or anybody, but also to possibly position assets so that they can get a better look or feel for what is inside that house.
BURNETT: Pamela Brown joins us now, our chief investigative correspondent.
Pamela, what are you learning?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, my colleague Evan Perez is getting some information from law enforcement officials who says that investigators detected something inside or near the home, which prompted the activity we're currently seeing. They don't know, you know, what or who it is in terms of what could be going on inside that home.
But, clearly, as we have been reporting, police were there earlier today. They have returned and they are very focused on the home right now. They're using all kinds of different technologies as we've been talking about to try and sort out what could be going on.
As you've been pointing, out there is technology like heat sensor technology, they have robots and all sorts of tools at their disposal they're using right now at nightfall as they try to find the suspect. But according to my colleague, Evan Perez, they did detect something on the inside or near the home.
Of course, it's worth noting as we've been talking about this -- by law enforcement throughout the day. So, it does raise the question of, if the suspect is back in the home, ha would that happen.
We also are hearing from other officials that they're just doing their due diligence, that they don't have any guarantees of suspect inside the home, but they're doing to diligence.
BURNETT: Yeah.
BROWN: So, at this hour, all we know, Erin, is that the suspect remains on the loose and not in custody of police.
BURNETT: Right. And, Brian Todd, just to emphasize, as we see those lights go on and off, this is his home. They have had a statewide search. So, the fact they are returning to this, would -- to many seem unusual, would almost seem to be the first place you would check and clear.
BROWN: Right, Erin, and, you know, we have to emphasize that a few hours ago they were here and there are flash bangs, and that they seem to be approaching the house at least and trying to go inside and gather evidence. And then they very calmly left the scene.
I can tell you now that I am seeing other things shift, which you are probably viewing right now. There are other assets shifting around. There is a vehicle moving which is basically what I'm telling you. But I don't want to give too many more specifics than that.
And the spotlight is again shifting, and now, okay, now you see it, it is back in the front of the house. And we will, of course --
BURNETT: Tim Clemente --
TODD: -- keep a close eye on that to see if there's any more instructions come.
BURNETT: All right. It's Brian Todd, now, you're looking at that, illuminating the House again.
Josh Campbell, you've got some new reporting from state police. What are you learning?
CAMPBELL: Yeah, Erin, and this tracks to what we have been saying about, even if it's precautionary, they still go through a series of motions in order to try and identify if someone is there and obviously the safety of the officers is key.
I want to read a short piece of information we got, additional information from the Maine Department of Public Safety. What they're saying is the announcements we have been saying come out with your hands up, FBI, these officials saying the announcements being heard over a loudspeaker are standard search warrant announcements when executing a warrant to ensure the safety of all involved. So, keying on that word -- standard search warrant announcements. They
continue to say it is not known whether Robert Card is in any of the homes that are currently being searched. Law enforcement doing their due diligence by tracking down every lead in an effort to locate him.
So, again, what we have been saying, whether he's there or, not they go through the same process, authorities going out of their way to say that just because we're seeing this, just because we're hearing this doesn't mean he's there. They're following the tips as this man hunt continues not just where we're looking at right now in our screen, but across this large area, Erin.
BURNETT: And, Tim, you know, this is what you have been saying. They don't know whether he is there or not. What does that signify to you? That you would be putting this much into one specific spot. And the reality it is possible that the individual is here or actually somewhere very far away.
CLEMENTE: Well, Erin, I just saw the movement in Brian's camera image was a Lenco BearCat armor vehicle. Lenco controls United States law enforcement market. And that vehicle moving towards there is a heavily armored personal carrier. It has a battering ram attachment on the front that you saw sticking out from the front of the vehicle. It also has a gas injection device, that allows them to puncture through the outside of the structure, insert gas into the building, and my guess would be that is the next step.
If there's a possibility he is in, there they want to control him and given the opportunity to come out. He didn't take advance of that opportunity, so now, rather than breaching and entering the building, they will breach the region most likely, and inject CS gas into the building, forcing him to come out. If he is in there, he will come out, one way or another or he will die inside there. But I think that's what their next move is.
BURNETT: That is incredible to watch as you point that vehicle to the right of your screen, the one that Tim is referring to with that battering ram on the front.
All right. Well, our coverage here continues, our breaking news coverage with my partner Anderson Cooper.
Let me handed off to you, Anderson.
