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Erin Burnett Outfront

U.S. Official: Russian Air Defenses May Have Downed Passenger Jet; International Students Warned; DNC Chair Candidate OutFront. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired December 26, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:35]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:

Is Russia to blame? A U.S. official tells CNN early indications suggest it was Putin's forces who may have taken down a passenger jet, killing dozens as Russian state TV tries to shift blame.

Plus, a quote, it's a scary time. Countless international students now scrambling to make it back to major universities across the U.S. before Trump takes office. Why? I'll talk to one of those students.

And the Trumpian Democrat. Meet the man who's embracing comparisons to the president-elect as he tries to become the next Democratic Party leader.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan, in for Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight: shot down. According to a U.S. official, early indications are that a Russian anti-aircraft system may have taken down a passenger jet, killing at least 38 people. Now, this is really terrifying video of the jets final moments that you're seeing here. You can see it plunging toward the ground in Kazakhstan and then bursting into flames.

Miraculously, 29 people actually survived that fiery crash, including children. Huge questions though, now, with multiple investigations underway, here is what we know. The flight took off from Azerbaijan around 7:55 yesterday morning. Around 9:43, Kazakhstan says it received word from Russia the flight was being diverted. A Russian dispatcher claiming it was because of a control systems failure. Forty-five minutes later, the plane went down.

Russia's state TV was quick to raise one possible explanation for the crash -- birds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is too early to speak about the causes of the crash before the investigation is concluded. These are only assumptions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are the versions about the plane colliding with birds, correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a subject of investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So a possible bird strike. But to investigators who are right now still combing through the debris at the crash site, that explanation does not add up. For one, take a look at this video from the plane after it crashed. The tail is peppered with dozens of small holes and perforations that look quite similar to damage from shrapnel.

Bianna Golodryga has been following this for us.

Bianna, what more are you learning?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Kate, a passenger plane suddenly crashed near the city of Aktau in Kazakhstan on Wednesday, killing dozens of people. The flight record shows the aircraft diverted off its scheduled route to crash on the opposite shore of the Caspian Sea. Experts are now scouring for clues into the cause of the crash, as families of those on board await answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): As investigators race to determine the cause of the deadly Azerbaijan airlines plane crash. Early indications suggest that a Russian anti-aircraft system may be responsible, a U.S. official told CNN. The aircraft was traveling from the Azerbaijani capital of Baku to the Russian republic of Chechnya when it attempted an emergency landing in Kazakhstan. The crash occurred shortly after Ukraine fired drones nearby at southern Russia, possibly leading Russia's defense systems to inadvertently strike the aircraft, the official said.

Video from on board the flight shows panicked passengers praying and holes visible in the body of the aircraft. The source of the apparent damage has not been confirmed. The airline and Russia's federal air transport agency initially told local media the aircraft crashed after it collided with a flock of birds, an account disputed by Ukrainian counter disinformation official Andriy Kovalenko.

Russian state media also reported that the plane had been rerouted due to heavy fog around Chechnya's capital. Several investigations have been opened, including one by a joint commission involving representatives from Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Russia.

ILHAM ALIYEV, AZERBAIJAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The commission's task is to fully investigate the matter, the causes and all the details of the accident and to inform both me and the people of Azerbaijan.

GOLODRYGA: The Kremlin expressed condolences for those impacted by the crash and urged against speculation into the cause. Until the investigations have concluded.

[19:05:01]

Of the 67 people on board, 29 survived, including two children, authorities said.

In Azerbaijan, a day of mourning was declared for the dead. Some relatives of the survivors remain on edge, waiting for news on loved ones recovery.

FIZULI JALILOV, FATHER OF SURVIVOR NIZAMI JALILOV: I don't know what to say, honestly. I spoke with my son today. Thank God his condition is good. If everything goes well today and tomorrow, he will come to Baku. Let's see what happens next.

GOLODRYGA: For many families of the at least 38 people killed in the crash, answers can't come soon enough.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA (on camera): Aviation experts have indicated that its unlikely a bird strike could have caused this crash, and that the Russian defense system theory is possible. Officials recovered the black box at the crash site, which they hope will provide more information.

For now, several world leaders have expressed their condolences and voiced their support for a thorough investigation into the matter -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: One clearly needed.

Bianna, thank you so much.

Now, I want to bring in Oren Liebermann. Oren, what are U.S. officials telling you about this plane crash?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kate, Bianna referenced there what we've heard from U.S. officials that the initial indications that the U.S. has picked up on are that it may well have been a Russian air defense system that struck and downed this passenger aircraft from Azerbaijan Airlines. Now, the official wasn't able to say what kind of system it was, but Russia certainly has a number of air defense systems capable of downing a commercial jet. And in fact, we have seen this before.

It was a decade ago that a Russian air defense system operated by Russian backed separatists in eastern Ukraine shot down Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, killing those on board. So we have seen an example of something like this.

Now, it's worth noting that just hours before this crash took place, there was a Ukrainian drone attack on this area in southern Russia. And defense experts have said that Russia's air defenses were active. So that very much raises the possibility that Russia, in trying to defend against a drone attack, may have mistaken a passenger airliner for some sort of attack on Russia, and in doing so, fired upon the commercial airliner. The U.S. official I spoke with said this if it proves correct, if it

was a Russian air defense system shows the lack of training of Russian units who were unable to defend against a Russian drone -- rather a Ukrainian drone attack. So, Kate, more information on this as the investigations continue and as the U.S. continues to look into this.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And your reporting has been critical in this. Thank you so much, Oren.

Now OUTFRONT with us now, for us now is David Soucie, a former safety inspector at the FAA, retired Air force Colonel Cedric Leighton, and David Sanger, White House and national security correspondent at "The New York Times".

Gentlemen, thanks for coming in.

David Soucie, I apologize. I'm going to have to call you by your first and last names. David Soucie, Russia says that the -that the plane initially it said, and you and I have talked about this, they said that the plane collided with a flock of birds and that was suggested that that was the source of the crash.

But then when you see the video that's really come out, those holes and perforations in the tail section of the plane, do you think at this point there is any chance it was birds that brought that plane down?

DAVID SOUCIE, FORMER FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR: No. You know, we questioned that early on, Kate. Even yesterday we talked about the fact that the bird strike doesn't cause an aircraft to lose flight control, typically. And this aircraft is going left and right and everywhere, all over the sky was clearly out of out of control. And the pilot was doing all he could to just maintain some kind of semblance of control over that airplane.

But I'm -- in my mind, I've completely ruled out anything to do with bird strikes, considering the evidence that we've seen so far.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, and Colonel Leighton, shortly before the plane crash, Oren was talking about this. There were Ukrainian drone strikes in southern Russia, near where the Azerbaijan airlines plane was set to land. If this was Russia, be it a mistake or intentional, why wasn't airspace shut down to avoid something like this?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah, that's a great question, Kate. Normally, what happens in a case like this is the airspace is shut down. There's a notice to airmen that goes out that says this area is restricted and you can't fly in it.

Apparently that did not happen. And when you look at, you know, obviously the crash scene, it's pretty clear that the pilots had to do some incredible flying in order to get to the point where they could crash land the way they did. But it's absolutely abnormal for this area not to be closed off to -- to air traffic.

BOLDUAN: And, David Sanger, Russia still denies any involvement from the last time something similar like this happened a decade ago MH17. They still deny that their involvement in this, if it is confirmed that it was Russian anti-aircraft, that behind taking down another commercial airliner, what would the consequences be of that, do you think?

David Sanger?

[19:10:02]

Oh, we just lost the connection. Were going to continue to work on getting David Sanger back up.

David Soucie, what do you think of that though? Because we -- it was a decade ago that MH17 occurred. They still don't claim any responsibility of it there. Do we have David Sanger back now?

And David Sanger is back with us.

David, if you didn't hear, I will recap really quickly. If this does --

DAVID SNAGER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AND POLITICAL ANALYST: I heard the --

BOLDUAN: Then take it and go, David Sanger.

SANGER: Great. Sorry about that, Kate.

So in the last case in 2014, there were no significant consequences. It took about a year and a half for a joint investigative committee to come up with a conclusion that it was the Russians. They -- the West, put together some not terribly effective sanctions. And in the meantime, Germany signed the Nord Stream II agreement that put a new Russian gas pipeline through to Europe.

So the conclusion that Putin had to come to was there isn't much of a penalty at this point. We have put so many sanctions on Russia since the war began, nearly three years ago, that it's hard to imagine what more at this point the West would do.

So other than the public condemnation, I wouldn't expect much of a penalty.

BOLDUAN: I confounded by the flight path of what happened here, David Soucie, when you look at what happened, right? It takes off from Azerbaijan, approaches Grozny, where something happened and then it diverts eventually crashing in Kazakhstan.

Why didn't the plane go down sooner? It being able to fly so long over a huge body of water after the incident, before crash landing. Could that indicate something?

SOUCIE: Well, to me, it just indicates that the missile was not a direct hit. And if you look at the damage to the aircraft that we have so far, and of course all we can see at this point is the tail section. But if the impact was mostly in the tail section, it would have avoided the fuel cells. It would have avoided the engines. All of the critical parts of keeping the aircraft flying were avoided.

And if that's the case, then that missile would have just struck in the tail. And that would indicate to that. That's why we've lost the flight control, indicating that he's lost flight controls that could have been from a hydraulic leak caused by the -- by the impact as well. So it makes sense to me that, that that missile would have just hit in the rear section of the aircraft and it would have been able to continue to fly.

But regarding where it went, I think its important to point out that the first alternate airport that they had was closed that day, and whether they had planned to use it or not. The second alternate was clear across the Caspian Sea on the other side.

BOLDUAN: It really is really so -- I'm fascinated by that flight pattern. Ever since we saw it, we saw it play out. Colonel Leighton, according to a flight tracker organization, the plane was -- the way they say it is. The plane was exposed to GPS jamming and spoofing near Grozny, which is where it was scheduled to land, as we've discussed.

Talk to me about GPS jamming. How is GPS jamming utilized in warfare? How big of a problem is this?

LEIGHTON: Yeah, it can be a huge problem, Kate. One of the things that happened in the second Iraq war is that the Russians helped the Iraqis in this case, Saddam Hussein, set up a GPS jamming system in Iraq, which we ended up neutralizing. Had we not neutralized that, it would have been very damaging to U.S. Air Force and U.S. naval aviation capabilities.

So GPS jamming can impact commercial aviation as well as military aviation, and it can really throw aircraft, off course, if it's not accounted for. And if it's not neutralized, like we were able to do back then.

BOLDUAN: David Sanger, the politics of this seem all very complicated. How complicated are the politics here between Russia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and everything involved now?

SANGER: It's pretty complicated because they are former Soviet states. Azerbaijan has been trying to move toward the West, but at the same time trying to keep a relationship open with Putin.

If you're sitting on Putin's borders there, you're pretty careful about what your relationships are like. My guess is that there will be very little appetite in Azerbaijan for a conclusion that is very critical of Putin and his forces.

BOLDUAN: David Soucie, 29 people survived this. Many of them still in critical, two of them children. We don't know exactly where they were sitting on the plane, I guess we can say. But are you surprised that 29 people survived this?

SOUCIE: Very surprised. It truly, in my mind, is a Christmas miracle that they did survive. But in understanding how the aircraft hit the ground, you can see that

the front part of the airplane serves in this accident as kind of a crumple zone, if you will, to absorb most of that -- that energy that's there.

[19:15:08]

So when the tail broke off, you can see how far away it is from the original impact zone. So that's what happens is the energy gets absorbed. Then that tail breaks off and continues to travel. And the rest of the energy gets burned off as it skids across the ground. So in that time period and there were no flames back in the back because there's no fuel cell back there. So those that does make sense that that would have been where most of the survivors were seated.

BOLDUAN: Colonel Leighton, one thing that Oren Liebermann was saying is that the U.S. officials saying the fact that they missed Russia anti-aircraft systems, possibly likely mistook this jet for a -- thought, thinking it was a drone, pointing to a lack of training. What does that say about the state -- this -- well, just the state of things as we've been covering the Ukraine war, how strapped Russian forces are and everything now it seems the ripple effects of that?

LEIGHTON: Yeah, that's a great, great question, Kate, because when you look at the way in which the Russians have handled air defense issues going back decades, you can see that there are certain weaknesses in the way the Russians do their training and really execute operations in the air defense realm. And in this particular case, its very possible that the air defense operators, the radar operators and the missile operators mistook aircraft and that for -- for drones. And that, of course, is a critical element in this. And mistaken identity can obviously cost lives and cause crashes.

BOLDUAN: For sure.

Gentlemen, thank you so much.

OUTFRONT next, controlling the canal. New reporting just in on Donald Trump's obsession with taking back the Panama Canal and why one adviser tells CNN he is not bluffing.

Plus, some of America's biggest universities right now warning students that they need to be back on campus before Donald Trump takes the oath of office. Why?

And inside Russia's crackdown on teenagers, one telling CNN he was beaten in prison while his hands were tied. And you won't believe why they were arrested in the first place.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:23]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, new details on Donald Trump's fixation with the Panama Canal and Greenland. Look no further than his Christmas day message, where he said in part

the following: Merry Christmas to all, including to the wonderful soldiers of China who are lovingly but illegally operating the Panama Canal.

Also going on to say: Likewise to the people of Greenland, which is needed by the United States for national security purposes, and who want the U.S. to be there. And we will.

Let's get right to Alayna Treene, who is in West Palm Beach, Florida, for us this evening.

Alayna, what are you hearing about why Donald Trump is focused on this still?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Kate, I'm told that he's so fixated on this, specifically what you mentioned, this idea of wanting to take over control of the Panama Canal, as well as reviving what he first called for in 2019, which is to purchase Greenland from, you know, a Danish territory, which I should say, they argue is not for sale.

All of this, though I'm told, is part of a broader negotiating tactic. And that is one Trump adviser's interpretation of some of what Donald Trump has been saying this week. They argued that Donald Trump wants to force these foreign leaders to the table to try and, one, bolster U.S. trade and put America in a better position as it comes to trade, but also with this idea of trying to curb both China and Russia's influence on the global stage.

Now, for Panama, for example, Donald Trump's overarching goal, this adviser told me, is really to try and get lower prices for passage of American vessels in the canal. They said, quote, so that American companies have an easier time. He also believes that Chinese companies are controlling too many ports in the Panama Canal, and that's effectively giving them a lot of control over which vessels can go through, which ships can pass through, as well as control over a lot of the pricing.

So that is one big part of why Donald Trump has been so fixated on this, I'm told, as it relates to Greenland. He believes that having some control over Greenland and over the territory would curb Russia's influence in the Arctic Region.

Again, kind of playing back to that whole idea of wanting to really kneecap China and Russia where they can and try to exert the United States dominance as a global leader and paint himself as a strongman.

Now, one thing as well that I found really interesting in some of my conversations with sources close to Donald Trump, Kate, is that they told me that this isn't the first time Donald Trump has been fixated on this. For example, with Panama, he brought up the Panama Canal in an August interview with Tucker Carlson on X, where essentially he said that he believed then-President Jimmy Carter made a mistake in signing this treaty and giving control of the Panama Canal to Panama. And it's something that he's brought up since then as well, I'm told. So, again, just to take a step back, all of this is, I'm told, part of

a negotiating tactic. It's still unclear, you know, how serious he is about following through on some of these threats, but he does want to use this to try and bolster the United States position -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Alayna Treene, thank you so much, Alayna. It's good to see you as always.

And here with me now, Scott Jennings and Karen Finney, they're OUTFRONT with us.

So, Scott, this is like day three of us talking about this. And I will give you this. He's talked about it before. And so he's -- he's staying on message and as the Trump adviser is telling Alayna, it's -- they're trying to curb Russia and Chinas influence. But Panama's president said outright, there's no Chinese in the canal as simple as that.

The AP is reporting experts in both the U.S. and Panama are clear that unless Donald Trump wants to go to war with Panama, there is, Trump cannot assert control.

A negotiating tactic maybe.

Yeah, but is it? Why is it even close to serious when you can't assert control over the Panama Canal?

[19:25:01]

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I tell you what is very serious, and that is pushing back on the encroachment of Chinese influence in the Western hemisphere.

BOLDUAN: Do you think this does that?

JENNINGS: Yes, I do this.

BOLDUAN: Do you think this does that?

JENNINGS: I think Donald Trump is trying to send a message to the Chinese, and he's also trying to send a message to everyone else in the hemisphere that I'm not going to put up with this encroachment.

Now, what is true is that China is having encroachment in this hemisphere, in Africa, all over the world. They are trying to act like the world's leading superpower. They are trying to exert their values and their way of life all over the world. That used to be our job.

And I think what Donald Trump is saying here is, I don't want this in my backyard. America is the world's superpower. More America is better. And I'm sending a message that I'm not going to put up with this sort of creeping Chinese influence in my own backyard.

BOLDUAN: But give me help me with this thinking, though, really quick. And, Karen, I'll bring you in a second. But if it -- if it -- if it angers Panama, if it hurts relations with Panama, the calculation is it won't and it doesn't matter?

JENNINGS: Do I care if Panama is angry? What does Van Halen going to come in and be upset it?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: They are our ally.

JENNINGS: I mean, I mean, honestly, I need them to understand. And Donald Trump needs them to understand that we are the dominant superpower in this hemisphere, and he needs to have a conversation with them about that. And I hope that he does.

And yes, they are an ally, but this is a vital thing, this Panama Canal. And but I'm just telling you, the encroachment of Chinese influence around the world must be stopped. And if Donald Trump is getting serious about that, that's a good thing.

BOLDUAN: Karen, lets talk about some -- let's talk about this also in his Christmas message. There is another aspect of the Christmas message.

Donald Trump said the following: A bright light is now shining over the United States, and he talks about in 26 days, we're going to make America great again. Merry Christmas.

The latest Gallup poll this week found that only 19 percent of Americans believe the country is headed in the right direction, down from 22 percent a month ago.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Uh-huh.

BOLDUAN: Is Donald Trump speaking to more Americans than Democrats would like to admit?

FINNEY: I don't know if we know the answer to that, because we also saw an AP poll today out that said 7 in 10 Democrats and 6 in 10 Republicans have admitted since the election they're not watching as much political news because they're just exhausted.

So I think part of it could be people are just exhausted, and I think they're waiting to see what Donald Trump is going to do. And look, when you're in that mode and it's just been Christmas, we saw reports that there was a real divide around economic pain and who could afford certain types of Christmas presents and who couldn't.

And they're waiting to see, okay, Donald Trump, you're telling us you're going to go buy Greenland, you're going to take on Panama? How is that going to change my life? How is that going to lower costs, lower inflation? And when is that going to happen? I think that's what people are actually listening for.

And there may be diplomatic and economic reasons for both for both of these conversations. But it's hard to stomach this argument that this is about trying to assert American dominance, when at the same time, Trump talks about retreating from the world and talks about retreating from NATO. I mean, you know, people in Europe will tell you that the world is stronger with a bold, strong America. The world is safer when our enemies believe that America is dominant.

So shrinking and taking on Panama, which certainly will help American companies. But the question becomes, if that lowers prices for American companies, will those companies pass on those savings to the American people?

BOLDUAN: There's an interesting thing as well, and this is a bit of a turn, but I do find it is an interesting part of the discussion about where America is and where America is going. And I'm using Vivek Ramaswamy and Nikki Haley to help us put this conversation together, Scott. I'll call it a war of words. And yes, it's happening on the Twitters and the X.

Between Vivek and Nikki Haley, Ramaswamy posts a long monologue, if you will, criticizing American work ethic and saying this in part in his rant: Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long.

Nikki Haley -- as you can see, it's quite long. Nikki Haley decides to respond to this, saying there is nothing wrong with American workers or American culture. All you have to do is look at the border and see how many want what we have.

Who's right?

JENNINGS: Yeah. Vivek -- first of all, it's -- after reading this message that I now understand why he got like 100 votes in Iowa or whatever it was.

BOLDUAN: Why? I mean, tell me why.

JENNINGS: I mean, because -- I mean, I think he kind of insulted a lot of Americans and American culture, a lot of culture that we all grew up with and that we celebrate as uniquely American.

Look, I think we have a lot of talent inside our borders. I also think the H-1B visa program, which he was talking about, is in serious need of reform. And so there's probably a way here for Donald Trump to do lots of positive things. Number one, reform this key part of our immigration system. Number two, try to elevate American workers and people in America, American citizens that have this kind of talent.

[19:30:04]

I don't think we have to say all Americans are mediocre. I don't think that's true. And I actually agree with Nikki Haley on this one. We have a lot of talent and a lot of hard workers here. We ought to elevate them instead of push them down.

BOLDUAN: I don't know.

Karen, what do you think of this? It's not really even like this is Democrats don't even need to weigh in. You can just kind of watch this play out. But, yeah, I don't know. What do you think? FINNEY: Well, I -- I will, lets just say it here. What is it? 7:29

p.m. I agree with Scott. I and I agree with Nikki Haley.

I thought it was a -- it was a terrible message and it was, you know, we what we need to be doing is investing in American workers.

And how about something we didn't talk at all about in the election? Education. How about workforce development? How about investing in the talent that we have here in this country, and both for the jobs of today and looking to the future? So I agree, and I think Democrats should take on that conversation.

I mean, it's not good for the incoming president to have someone who he's put in such a high profile position kind of crapping on America and our people instead of saying, hey, were going to help unleash the talent of American workers.

JENNINGS: Now, Vivek today insulted Zack and Slater from "Saved by the Bell", and I just -- I mean, having grown up with Zack and Slater --

BOLDUAN: I mean, we all did.

JENNINGS: I mean, I don't -- I don't know, I think they got a lot of fans out there.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, their days are numbered. That's what you're saying, I hear you.

It's good to see you guys.

FINNEY: He's just jealous that Elon was getting too much attention.

BOLDUAN: Well, there you go. This is how you do it. Just. It worked today. Good to see you guys. Thank you so much.

OUTFRONT next, major universities tonight warning some of their students if they're not back in the next three weeks, they may have trouble returning to campus at all. Why? I'll talk to one of those students next.

Plus, he backs Trump on tax cuts and sanctuary cities. Only he's a Democrat and now running to be the next DNC chair.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:36:08]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, major universities are warning their students about Donald Trump's return to the White House. Schools across the country, including Cornell, USC and Wesleyan, are now urging international students to return to the U.S. before January 20th, the day of Trump's inauguration, amid fears of an immigration crackdown to come.

A record 1.1 million international students were in the United States during the last academic year. When Trump took office back in 2017, his travel ban left many students stranded abroad.

OUTFRONT now, Silvana Ferrari. She's a junior at NYU, originally from Venezuela. NYU had the most international students in the U.S. last year, more than 27,000.

Silvana, thank you so much for joining me. You're in college now. Obviously, as I mentioned, but you also attended high school in the United States as well. You've been here a long time. What would it mean for you, if anything would change with your student visa now?

SILVANA FERRARI, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT, NYU: Thank you for having me, Kate. I mean, I think devastated doesn't even begin to cover it.

If something were to happen to my student visa, I've -- I mean, I've been in the U.S. since I was 14. Ive built a life here. I've been studying here. My mom and I moved here together. And, you know, obviously, I'm technically here just to study, but I, you know, my friends are from here. My life has been here for a very, like, developmental part of it.

So I think that, you know, if anything were to happen to that, I wouldn't even -- I wouldn't even know where -- where my life would go next. I don't know where I would do in terms of my studies. Yeah. It would just be very uncertain.

BOLDUAN: For sure. I mean, you received this email from NYU kind of a heads up, if you will, and a little bit of a warning in part, it reads this. At this time, were not aware of any imminent policy shifts that could affect our international students and scholars, but well notify you immediately should that change. And the email goes on to note that classes start on January 21st, and then they say so our strong recommendation is to be back, back the 19th, which also happens to be the day before the inauguration.

What went through your mind when you read this?

FERRARI: I -- I was surprised that the NYU administration was addressing it in such a direct way. I think that as a, as a person on student visa and I have been since I was 14, that's when I applied for my first like term of the visa, I think. I'm obviously, like always nervous about my immigration status.

I'm always wondering, like if my paperwork is up to date, all that. But definitely it's a bit unsettling to receive an email of that sort and be told, you know, watch out. Keep that in mind. I think, yeah, it's definitely nerve wracking. But yeah, just hoping -- hoping for the best, I guess.

BOLDUAN: And what are you hearing from fellow international students about this? I mean, are people on edge? Are people afraid?

FERRARI: I think that during Trump's campaign, there was a lot of obviously, like, anti-immigrant rhetoric in terms of, like the fact that he's looking to end birthright citizenship and all these mass deportations that he's been threatening. And, you know, the thing with former President Donald Trump is that he says so many things, right? So it's hard to know what he's actually going to act on.

So, definitely, I think that before he was elected or before he won the election, there was a bit more lightheartedness towards the topic. It was kind of like, oh, I guess we'll see what happens. But now that it's like really starting to become, you know, a reality that his time is coming, he's about to become president again and take the -- the White House.

I think it's definitely like my friends and I that are also fellow international students. Yeah. We're nervous. I mean, I think it'd be -- it'd be crazy not to be. Honestly.

[19:40:03]

BOLDUAN: Yeah, Silvana, safe travels back to the U.S. and good luck this year. Thank you so much for coming on.

FERRARI: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

OUTFRONT for us next, meet the Democrat who's embracing being called Trumpian. In fact, he thinks it's a winning strategy for the Democratic Party. Will this help him become the party's next chair?

Plus, Putin cracking down on his youngest of critics. One teenager tells CNN he was bound and assaulted in prison.

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BOLDUAN: Tonight, another Democrat throwing their hat in the ring to lead the party in 2025. Author and two time presidential candidate Marianne Williamson, now announcing she's also running to be the next DNC chair. In doing so, she joins a growing field showing you hear of contenders looking to lead the Democratic Party. And that field also includes my next guest, Robert Houton.

[19:45:00]

He's a public health advocate and was a candidate who ran unsuccessfully for Senate in Maryland this cycle.

Robert, thank you so much for coming in. Really appreciate your time.

Your rivals for this chair -- to be DNC chair includes two former presidential candidates, including one who is a well-known governor, a state party chairs, a state senator. Why are you a better choice than the others running?

ROBERT HOUTON, RUNNING FOR DNC CHAIR: Thanks, Kate, for having me.

Well, first and foremost, we need bold, younger generation of leaders and none of my fellow candidate chairs are that. We also need someone who will agree with president Trump when he's right. And there's a reason why he had that decisive victory because he was right on so many issues. And our party drifted to the left -- sanctuary cities, DEI.

We need to embrace tax cuts, which will spur job growth. Over 3 million jobs that were created when it was enacted in 2017, and it would have created more jobs if the COVID pandemic hadn't hit. Those are just a couple of the reasons, Kate.

BOLDUAN: I mean, you're talking -- you talk about Trump almost immediately in talking about why you should be chair over others. You agree with him, as you mentioned, on tax cuts, even on pushing back against sanctuary cities.

And I saw that you told "The Washington Examiner" this: I actually take it as a compliment if someone says I'm the most Trumpian because Trump won.

Now, Robert, how does that help you win over party Democrats?

HOUTON: Great question, Kate. Well, first he won because he really ran as a Democrat of the Bill Clinton and Obama era, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were actually very moderate, and they understood the voter. That's why Trump got 80 million votes.

We have to return to fighting for policies, commonsense that work -- universal school choice. Trump's right on that as well.

Not. Our kids must be taught reading, writing, math. Trump has embraced that not gender, sex and race, Kate. That's the problem that our party has.

And I'm the only voice fighting RFK's nomination. I differ with President-elect Trump on a number of issues. Fighting the terrible nomination of RFK, Jr., this is insane that he's even being considered one. What that will do with the public health and the vaccines two, he's also going way far right on DACA.

We need to not be ripping children from their parents. Let's deport the felons first and then go from there.

BOLDUAN: So let's talk about the brand the party that you now want to lead. I mean, the Democratic Party is in the middle of soul searching right now. Some Democrats are not holding back in their criticism of the brand, including former Democrat, now independent Senator Joe Manchin. Let me play what he said recently.

HOUTON: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (I-WV): The brand got so bad, the D brand has been so maligned from the standpoint of it's just -- it's toxic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I also saw a Democratic strategist, Liz Smith, who has worked on campaigns for Obama and Pete Buttigieg, just to name a couple, told the New York Times that the Democratic brand is in the toilet.

Do you agree?

HOUTON: I don't know. I don't agree with that.

I think we have the greatest optimism if we embrace on the issues. We were held hostage by the radical left. We weren't in the toilet. We have the opportunity to move policies that work for the people, and we will have credibility, Kate, when we work with the president so that when we fight, when -- when he's wrong, we're going to have more credibility and were going to win on all those issues.

BOLDUAN: So you need -- you need to -- you need to win in order to obviously be able to implement what you would like to see as a real shift in strategy for the Democratic Party. The DNC has scheduled a series of candidate forums. The first is January 9th.

To make the cut, you need to submit 40 verified DNC member signatures, and you need to do so a week ahead of time, which gives you until noon next Thursday. Are you on track to get 40 by then?

HOUTON: I just got two more before I entered the studio. So, yes, I'll make that without question.

BOLDUAN: I had someone in my ear. So how many signatures do you have currently?

HOUTON: So I just secured two. I haven't looked at the others that have been committing to me, but I'll make that threshold.

BOLDUAN: Do you think you'll get them by next week?

HOUTON: Actually, I'm not even really concerned whether ill make it for the first forum. I know that I'll be on the ballot. And what's most important is, is my voice is telling our party where you're wrong, and I'm bringing us back to being where we can be right and where we can win elections.

And there's a reason why I was really disappointed that Jaime Harrison, when I went there, the DNC committee said we weren't woke enough, basically, is what he said. Kate and I stood and I was thinking, this is a political funeral and everyone's backpacking, like backsliding, congratulating themselves. I don't know what party that is, but it's not my party. And it's not the party, the American people.

And that's why I'm a fighter. And I'm going to win.

BOLDUAN: Robert Houton, thank you so much for your time.

HOUTON: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, Vladimir Putin targeting teenagers, some spending years in prison, one telling CNN he was beaten and abused. Why? We have a special report next.

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BOLDUAN: Tonight, Russia's youngest political prisoners. Russian law allows children as young as 14 years old to be arrested for treason. And tonight, we're learning new details about the conditions these teenagers are facing inside Russia's prisons.

Alex Marquardt is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Arseny Turbin was your average Russian teenager, a top student who enjoyed electronics, he built a radio transmitter for a class project.

Today, he's one of Russia's youngest political prisoners, arrested at 15 years old and now facing five years in a penal colony, found guilty on terrorism charges.

He was accused of joining a Russian paramilitary group fighting for Ukraine. He admits he contacted them but denies joining. On Russia's National Day in June last year, he staged a solo protest. Posting on YouTube saying, "I'm against Putin".

Now, Turbin is one of at least three dozen teenagers who are jailed in Russia for political reasons, among Russia's almost 3,000 citizens facing criminal prosecution on political grounds.

Human rights group OVD-Info has tracked these cases and told CNN there are at least 16 teenagers that they know of, but almost certainly more who were detained after Russia invaded Ukraine and the Kremlin dramatically cracked down on dissent, including by minors.

We spoke with Turbin's mother, Irina, in Russia, who had pleaded with her son not to speak out, knowing what could happen.

You shared some of the letters that Arseny wrote to you from detention, and in one of them he says, "Please, I'm asking you to do everything you can to make sure I get released. I dream of the day when I'll be released and can hug you."

How painful is that for you as a mother to read that?

IRINA TURBINA, MOTHER OF TEENAGE PRISONER ARSENY TURBIN (through translator): I cried because I understand that I am doing the best I can already. I knew I couldn't do anything. I have already done and am doing everything I can, but this is not enough for him to be free.

MARQUARDT: In another letter, Turbin wrote, "yesterday after lights out, an inmate pushed me into the toilet. Today he punched me twice in the head while I was in bed. The situation is very difficult."

Kevin Lick knows all too well about the brutality of Russian prisons, after being arrested at 17 years old and sent to a labor camp with a four-year sentence.

KEVIN LICK, FORMER PRISONER IN RUSSIA: They handcuffed my hands with a rope and started to beat me. They put out a cigarette on my hand. There's a scar left.

MARQUARDT: They physically abused you?

LICK: Yes. They abused to try to get answers out of me.

MARQUARDT: Lick had taken photos of a military base across from his apartment building. He says he wanted to document history as the Russian military prepared to invade Ukraine.

Pro-regime media published this video of his alleged equipment. Lick was accused of wanting to send the photos to the intelligence services in Germany, where he is also a citizen, but he denies this.

In prison, he says he was packed into cells with other inmates and lost a huge amount of weight. Then he was suddenly released in August as part of a historic international prisoner swap when "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich and former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan were also freed.

Both Kevin Lick and Arseny Turbin are supporters of opposition hero and Putin nemesis Alexei Navalny, who died in February in a penal colony.

Lick marched alongside Navalny's widow Yulia in a pro-democracy demonstration in Berlin just weeks ago. He's now embracing a new life of activism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT (on camera): And, Kate, we do have an update on Arseny Turbin from our story. His mother tells us he has been moved from the detention facility in Moscow, sent to a penal colony around 1,000 miles away. She is very worried about this prison and says it will be hard for her to visit him.

Now, Russia's federal penitentiary service did not respond to our request for comment about these allegations that teenagers in detention have suffered violence and mistreatment. Meanwhile, the Kremlin consistently denies the existence of political prisoners in Russia, claiming that all incarcerations are based on legal violations. But of course, human rights groups say very much otherwise -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Alex, thank you so much. That is unbelievable and so believable at the very same time, coming out of Russia.

Before we go, there is a brand new CNN film that chronicles the life and career of singer Luther Vandross. Here's a sneak peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIAH CAREY, SINGER: You only come across an artist like Luther Vandross once in a lifetime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Luther said, I have a sound in my head, I got to get it out. So we went in the studio, says, okay, it goes boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I said, this is a quirky little bass line.

(SINGING)

LUTHER VANDROSS, SINGER: It was the most exciting time in the world. My head, my heart was immersed in this business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His life had some extremely joyful moments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four albums and all of them platinum.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's really difficult moments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He would say, god has given me everything I asked for except one person who loves me.

VANDROSS: I keep getting the feeling that the best part of my career is still ahead of me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we were to be able to talk to Luther as fans, we would be able to say, we just love you.

ANNOUNCER: "LUTHER: NEVER TOO MUCH", New Year's Day on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Thanks for joining us.

"AC360" starts now.