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Erin Burnett Outfront
Trump Loyalist Replaces GOP Rep On Intel Panel In Major Shakeup; TikTok Alternative; Panama Canal Obsession. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 16, 2025 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:32]
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next:
Trump's House Intelligence Committee. A major shakeup at the top of this committee. A Trump loyalist replacing someone who's broken with Trump on Russia and Ukraine, the 2020 election and his handling of classified documents.
Plus, the TikTok ban about to go into effect. Americans, like hundreds of millions of them flocking to another social media app. And guess what? This one is also Chinese, maybe even more Chinese than TikTok. What is RedNote and how big of a risk is it?
And OUTFRONT at the Panama Canal? Why Trump is so focused on getting it back.
Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.
OUTFRONT tonight. It is now Trump's Intelligence Committee, after a stunning shakeup. Republican Congressman Rick Crawford is now the chair of the House Intelligence Committee, unexpectedly replacing Republican Mike Turner, who happens to be a staunch supporter of Ukraine.
Crawford now, though, voted against Ukraine aid and is someone who's had Trump's back on issue after issue for years. He voted to object to the 2020 election. Crawford's sudden rise to the intel committee chair was a shock.
I mean, Turner is a widely respected leader there, but it comes after the house speaker, Mike Johnson, removed Turner, and "The New York Times" reports that Turner says that Mike Johnson told him his ouster was the result of a request from Mr. Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate.
And the sudden, stunning congressional coup even has some Republicans crying foul tonight. Congressman Dan Crenshaw telling reporters the decision seemed to, quote, come out of nowhere, quote, with no good explanation.
But could this be the reason?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: Do you believe it is still worth it for the United States to send whatever needs to be sent to Ukraine?
REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Absolutely. There was no hesitation there. Of course, that kind of steadfast support for Ukraine is not what we have heard from either Trump or Turner's replacement. Crawford says: I cannot in good faith vote to send billions of dollars in nonmilitary financial aid to Ukraine to prop up its economy -- making it clear where his vote is now.
Turner though, when you look at him okay, he supports Ukraine, but his conservative voting record, if you're looking for a Republican with the right bona fides, is pristine. He has voted with Trump 92 percent of the time, with Trump 92 percent of the time.
But here's the thing about Turner, he is not afraid to break with Trump when he thinks it's the right thing to do. Just listen to the ousted Chairman Turner, on Trump's handling of classified documents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TURNER: I have grave concerns about both of those type of documents being out in an unsecured place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Great concern.
And Turner, here he is on Trump's controversial 2019 phone call with Zelenskyy. The call remember where Trump pressured Zelenskyy to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, the call that led to Trump's impeachment. Here's Turner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TURNER: I've read the complaint, and I've read the transcript of the conversation with the president and the president of Ukraine. Concerning that conversation, I want to say to the president, this is not okay. It is -- that conversation is not okay. And I think it's disappointing to the American public when they read the transcript.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: So whichever of those things, whatever of those things may be, Trump's concern Turner is gone. And again, he's gone despite a 92 percent voting record with Trump. That appears to be what happens when you do not play ball, which may explain why the executives from just about every big tech firm in the U.S. are now planning to attend Trump's inauguration on Monday, in person, its like a phalanx. It includes the leaders of Amazon, Google, Meta, Tesla, OpenAI, and of course, the company that is hoping that Trump will throw them a last minute lifeline, that is TikTok, which is on track to face a nationwide ban this weekend.
Now look, here's the thing they are all in line, and all the money donated, all of the genuflecting going on it. You know, Trump has gone to battle with several of these companies in the past. They don't want that to happen again. I mean, take the CEO of Meta, Mark Zuckerberg, just before the 2020 election, he spoke about the importance of combating misinformation on Facebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ZUCKERBERG, FACEBOOK CEO: We're going to take this seriously and make sure that that people aren't declaring victory and saying that any kind of ongoing counting of votes is -- is evidence of a rigged election or anything like that.
[19:05:08]
I think that that would be dangerous. I think it would be kind of delegitimizing of the election, and I think it could risk increasing, you know, people getting into the streets and civil unrest after the election, which I think would be very problematic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That was -- that was in the year 2000. It was just weeks before the election, the election that Trump then went on to claim was stolen. Those -- that was the lie that that helped fuel the insurrection. And now, four years later, those lies that Zuckerberg claimed were problematic. Well, not so much anymore. Now, it's just free speech.
Manu Raju is OUTFRONT, live on Capitol Hill.
So, Manu, you know, it is stunning what has happened at the top of the intelligence committee. Mike Turner, widely respected Republican. As I said, his voting record close to pristine when it comes to voting in line with Trump. So what is the Republican reaction with this stunning ouster of the intelligence committee chair?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of Republicans are simply blindsided by this move. The members of that committee are very much aligned with Mike Turner. Many of those Republicans, including Congressman Dan Crenshaw, who said he came out of nowhere with no good explanation. He had a meeting with Mike Johnson.
Others wanted to hear directly from the speaker themselves and really concerned about what this may mean for this critical committee, which over the last couple of years has operated on a bipartisan basis with Mike Turner as the GOP chairman and Jim Hines as the top Democrat, this committee, though a few years back, was fraught with partisanship, with battles between the then chairman, Devin Nunes, the then ranking Democrat, Adam Schiff.
There's concern about going back to that fraught time when this committee, a powerful one, oversees the nationals and nations intelligence apparatus, also has some key legislative authority as well. Now, mike Turner had sparred with the Trump wing of the party on some key issues, including giving warrantless surveillance authority to the federal government, including on aid to Ukraine, a different position than his new chairman of the committee, Rick Crawford, has now espoused.
The speaker, however, Erin, has strongly denied that Donald Trump had any role in this whatsoever. He said that he wanted to bring, quote, fresh faces into the House Intelligence Committee. And I'm told by a source familiar with his thinking that he wanted to bring his own chairman in the way his predecessor, Kevin McCarthy, did in bringing in Mike Turner. But that is still not enough to quell some of those GOP concerns about this move.
BURNETT: All right. Yeah. And I guess just to make the point again, you know, "The New York Times" reporting that Turner says Johnson told him that this was the result of a request from Mr. Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate. So that is that is Turner's version of what happened here.
Manu, thank you very much. And I want to go now to Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, sits on the Armed Services and Judiciary Committees.
Senator, I appreciate your time. I just want to start here with something at the core of this, at least in terms of what the implications might be, and that's Ukraine. You've been vocal about your support for Ukraine, and Mike Turner was a staunch supporter of it. Speaker Johnson has now removed him from the chair of the intelligence committee. Turner is a respected, credible foreign affairs expert, and he's been replaced with somebody who voted in line with Trump on this crucial issue of opposing Ukraine aid. What's the actual impact of this?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): It sends a message to the House and to the Senate that Trump is going to put personal loyalty to him ahead of the national interest, and the United States security interests.
Mike Turner is a thoughtful, serious leader of the intelligence community in terms of oversight. He's a strong supporter of Ukraine. I'm disappointed and disgusted that he has been purged from this position and replaced with someone who is far less qualified, but I'm also really disappointed and disgusted with this purge as being part of a larger trend that we're seeing play out, even before Donald Trump is inaugurated.
He has a nominee for the FBI who says he's going to purge the ranks of that dedicated group of investigators and enforcers at the FBI. A nominee for attorney general who's going to apparently support that effort, and a nominee for the Department of Defense who says that he's going to purge the United States military of non loyalists to Donald Trump. So we're seeing a very dangerous and tragic trend play out here.
BURNETT: When you talk about Kash Patel, Pam Bondi, Pete Hegseth, the nominees that you are referring to right now, when you look across at the way the vote is going to go, do you think all three of them are going to be confirmed?
BLUMENTHAL: You know, the Trump transition team has mounted a relentless campaign of pressure, threatening and intimidating my colleagues.
[19:10:09]
So as of today, I would predict that they may well be confirmed. I'm still hoping. Yeah, I'm very clear eyed, but I'm still hoping that they will take the facts and reach the conclusion that these nominees are deeply unqualified for various specific reasons, but overall, that they are unwilling to say no to Donald Trump and put the nation's interests ahead of loyalty to him.
BURNETT: Senator, when you say threats and intimidation, are you referring just to something like what just happened to former Chairman Turner, or do you know of other specific threats or intimidation?
BLUMENTHAL: I'm referring to political and financial threats and intimidation. The threat of withdrawing or withholding donor contributions, influencing them possible primaries against colleagues from far right extremists, possible loss of their committee positions as happened to Mike Turner.
And that is the reason why your question is so profoundly important. What is the ripple effect here? It's not just that we may surrender Ukraine's interests, which are our own national security interests, or that we've lost a good person as head of that committee. It sends a message of intimidation throughout the ranks of the GOP leaders in the House and possibly the Senate.
BURNETT: So before you go, if I may, Senator, the former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, we have learned, will not attend president-elect Donald Trump's inauguration. She's attended every single one since she entered Congress, except for her very first when she had just been elected. That was H.W. Bush.
But since then, every single inauguration of both parties, no matter what term. The former first lady, Michelle Obama, also isn't attending. I believe the Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, has also said that she is not attending.
Are you going to attend?
BLUMENTHAL: I will be attending. I think it's part of my job.
Michelle Obama doesn't have my job. She's in a much more eminent position, which is true of Nancy Pelosi as well. I'm just a run of the mill senator. But I do think its part of my -- my position that I should be there.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Senator, thank you very much. And thank you for making that clear as well.
Senator Blumenthal, appreciate your time.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. Everyone's here with me now.
David, let me just start with you. And you heard what Senator Blumenthal just said. He said he's going to -- to the inauguration because he thinks it's important for him to do so, that that's important for the role. Nancy Pelosi is not attending. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, reportedly saying that she wont go either. And as I just mentioned, Michelle Obama, we understand, will not be attending either.
We don't know the reasons, although certainly all of those people understand the important implications of their decision.
What do you make of their decision and Senator Blumenthal choosing otherwise?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, everyone's entitled to their own spot. And I think that, uh, id like to know where those five tickets are going, because I'd like to have them. Pretty good -- pretty good seats up there in the dense.
BURNETT: All right. And I understand you can smile at it, but, Margaret, I guess the serious question here is, is it a mistake to -- for Pelosi, Ocasio-Cortez to sit out the inauguration, given the signal that it may send? The Blumenthal point of view, which is I think its important for the process to be there. Are they making a mistake or not?
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, Blumenthal said, Nancy Pelosi is not just a run of the mill member of the House of Representatives. That's wrong. Actually, she is just a run of the mill member of the House of Representatives, now she is a former speaker, but she is no longer in leadership.
Also --
BURNETT: Technically.
HOOVER: I mean, she -- I mean, she is not -- she is not third in line for the presidency. That would be the strong signal. That would be the miss.
Look, this is a different set of circumstances than previously. I mean, let's not pearl clutch about Nancy Pelosi not attending the inauguration of Donald Trump when Donald Trump didn't attend the inauguration of his own successor, Joe Biden. And, by the way, had had encouraged a mob of people to go ransack the Capitol and then waited multiple hours in the White House and didn't.
So it's not like this is a normal set of circumstances that were comparing it to. I recognize that there is a degree of constancy and familiarity and comfort that is seen when you have all of the former presidents sitting at a former president's funeral.
BURNETT: Yes. HOOVER: I mean, there's something that even for me, was comforting about seeing President Obama and President Trump talking there in National Cathedral. And yet we cannot remember that these are not just there is something different, historically different about Donald Trump as an individual that has held that office than any of his successors.
And so, so I do think it is okay to hold this against different standards and not just say, you know, you -- look, Nancy Pelosi didn't say anything. She's just not attending.
[19:15:02]
So we don't know what her reasons are. But one could wager that that's because Donald Trump's presidency is different.
BURNETT: Do you think, David, does that that add up to you, or do you think its a point of, well, if you act that way, I can act that way? Or is Margaret right?
URBAN: Oh, yeah. Two wrongs don't make a right, Margaret. You know that, your parents taught you, that you should show up. You show up at funerals and inaugurations, bare minimum. Not -- not a big ask.
And I think Nancy Pelosi sends a signal just like she ripped up the state of the union address. You know, not -- not a good sign. Not a good sign.
HOOVER: How about raiding up the Capitol? I mean, there are different standards. I mean, we just can't pretend that this is normal either, right? Like, I mean, we can recognize that this is a different kind of inauguration, right?
We can recognize that Donald Trump is a different kind of occupant of the office.
URBAN: Inauguration, where 60 -- close, you know, 76 million people.
HOOVER: Nobody's saying it was a lie. Nobody's saying he didn't win.
URBAN: Everybody voted for Donald Trump.
HOOVER: Like he said about his predecessor.
URBAN: Democrats -- Democrats, get over it. Show up. We got four years. They're going to deal with it every day, day in and day out, 1,460 more days plus. So if you're going to hold your breath until you turn blue because Donald Trump's the president, get over it.
HOOVER: I understand both points of view here, but I'm so sick of the pearl clutching.
BURNETT: Fourteen sixty, but who's counting?
URBAN: I have no pearls. I have no pearls.
BURNETT: Okay.
Margaret, so Donald Trump unveiled his new official portrait today. I thought it was interesting because it's very different from 2017. One -- I mean, look at it. You see the shadow. It was heavily photoshopped, but this is the look that he wanted.
And if you look at his 2017 one, totally different look. You look at actually all the other ones look at them, look at the smiles -- Obama, Trump, Biden and now this Trump glowering.
What is the message he's sending?
HOOVER: This is the retribution presidency. I mean, this is like this looks like his mug shot. I mean, I don't -- I don't know what to make of it, but he's not happy. Is he happy to be the leader of the free world?
Look, I don't know. He did promise to be our retribution, to be everybody's retribution. And, like, I mean, that was the first thing that sprang to my mind. Look, I hope to God that that -- that -- I hope for the best for this country.
BURNETT: David, what is that picture? I mean, they even wanted to have the dark shadow. Yeah.
URBAN: Look, I saw the president last week. He's happy. He's glad to be the president of the United States --
BURNETT: Smiling --
URBAN: -- for everybody. And look, this is a tough guy picture. And I think that Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping and others will look at this and know there's a new sheriff in town.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. I appreciate it.
And next, Rudy Giuliani getting a last minute bailout after all of this, somebody put up the money, somebody put up like more than $10 million for Rudy Giuliani so that he could keep his prized possessions and settle with two election workers. Who was it?
Plus, with tick tock possibly being shut down in days, millions are turning to another social media app known as the RedNote. It's not -- not being vague or coy there. Yeah, the RedNote. It is a Chinese app closely monitored by the communist government.
And a home in the Pacific Palisades miraculously survives the wildfire and then days later, torn apart by a mudslide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As of Thursday night, were like, oh, look, it's standing, it's intact. We're going to come live here. Okay, great, new life. Let's do it here. And then you get kicked in the teeth.
(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:45]
BURNETT: Tonight, who bailed Rudy Giuliani out?
So the former New York City mayor and Trump lawyer dodging trial today by reaching a surprise agreement with the two Georgia election workers he is convicted of defaming during the 2020 election. The stunning announcement came after a long, unexplained delay, as Giuliani was supposed to take the stand today because he was facing the threat of losing his $3.5 million Florida condo and several World Series rings from the New York Yankees. But he didn't show up to court. Instead, he posted a video -- this video of his dog at Mar-a-Lago, as reporters were sitting in the courtroom waiting for hours wondering where he was.
It was a bizarre mystery. And then, all of a sudden, comes this announcement. Today, a settlement, the Georgia election workers, Ruby Freeman and her daughter Shaye Moss, saying in a statement, quote, we have agreed to allow Mr. Giuliani to retain his property in exchange for compensation and his promise not to ever defame us.
Katelyn Polantz is OUTFRONT.
I mean, Katelyn, this is pretty stunning. I mean, you know, there was an incredible amount of money at stake here. And I guess it appeared clear Giuliani wouldn't have that full amount. But then at the very last minute, everyone sitting in the courtroom and then a last minute bailout after months of trying to hold on to things like those rings and apartments. So the big mystery today is who the heck bailed him out? What do you know?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Erin, what a mystery. I've been asking many people, both sides involved in this case and nothing. Nobody will say anything about how this happened, how it came about.
If there is money that Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss are getting. But, Erin, if you step back and look at the situation as it stood for Rudy Giuliani going into today, where he could have lost that condo in Florida worth about $3.5 million, and also the World Series rings worth a couple tens of thousands of dollars, he only had about $10 million to his name, and they had already won the vast majority of it.
He had even shipped them his luxury watch collection. They were pocketing all of these things. And then the settlement announcement comes. It says, this concludes all of the litigation between Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss. Those two women that Giuliani had defamed earned $150 million jury verdict. His appeals were basically dead in the water at this point in time in the courts, and they were continuing to win sanctions against Giuliani because he just wasn't complying with court orders.
So they were winning and winning and winning. And then Giuliani and Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss announced this settlement. They put out statements with little clues. Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss's statement says he gets to retain his property in exchange for compensation. No number there. And then Rudy Giuliani's own thing says, I get to retain my New York co-op and Florida condominium and all of my personal belongings.
Hanging over all of this, though, Erin, is this question, did Donald Trump or anyone connected to Trump help him in some way? There was a close friend of Giuliani that was on another station just a few days ago, saying somebody around Trump should help. Then Trump posts online save Rudy multiple exclamation points, and then this settlement comes into being on this trial.
BURNETT: So just -- just to be clear here, Katelyn, I understand, they won -- Ruby and Shaye, $150 million jury verdict. We know there's a settlement here. Okay, so presumably they're settling for less.
But do you know the amount? I mean, how much money are they getting from this mysterious? We don't know.
POLANTZ: No idea. And Giuliani was not just in debt to them. He had a lot of other debts to other people as well. So there's a big question. How much would it have taken for them to just end this all?
They were already getting so much out of him already were very close to having the keys to that $6.5 million New York condo that he had been trying to sell before, that they could have sold as well.
BURNETT: All right. Katelyn, thank you very much. I mean, it is stunning. I mean, it is bizarre mystery.
Randy Zelin is OUTFRONT, Manhattan criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor.
So, Randy, we have no idea how Rudy Giuliani got the money for this, right?
We know that they, the two election workers had already won $150 million in a jury settlement. They'd already won and they'd won every -- like he had nowhere to go. But he didn't have all that money.
So I guess lets just start with the question is, you know, you saw the post from -- from president-elect and you heard what one of his inner circle said on TV about save Rudy.
Do you think there was somebody in a high place, somebody that just, you know, for whom some massive amount of money is nothing, who just got in here and helped Rudy Giuliani?
RANDY ZELIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: There is no question that a betting person would say that someone who is very interested in spending warmer climate, climate at Mar-a-Lago. And to your point, in your earlier segment, look who's showing up at the inauguration, people, whether they like it or not, understand that the next four years are going to be Trump world, and you can be part of it, or you can get out of the way of it, or you can get hit by it. And I think, yes, it is entirely plausible and well never know. But
someone decided to be that benevolent benefactor who will get something out of this. And don't be surprised also, if these women also recognize, boy, it would really be nice to be able to get on with our lives because I think we all got the sense from these women. It really was never about money, it was about their reputations and the restorations of their reputations.
BURNETT: Right.
ZELIN: And now that Mr. Giuliani and I promise you, hell never speak about this again, they have their reputations back.
BURNETT: So the jury had awarded them, as I mentioned, $150 million. As you know, Randy, that was actually three times what Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss had asked for. They'd asked for $48 million. So whatever you think of all these numbers, the jury gave them three times what they asked for. We know Giuliani didn't have that money. He didn't have anywhere near that money, and he owes a lot of other money to a lot of other people.
How much do you think that this, that they settled for in this deal? I mean, do you have any -- just your own thought on this as a defense attorney and prosecutor?
ZELIN: It's -- I'll say a couple of things to that point. First of all, again, I my own sense of it is I don't believe that these women were ever motivated by money. And let's face it, they had a judgment. They had a piece of paper that says they have $148 million.
What did it get them? It got them continued aggravation. It got them continued bad notoriety. This became their legacy.
And Mr. Giuliani, quite frankly, is someone who's got nothing to lose right now. This isn't even the biggest of his problems. He's got two other indictments where President Trump can pardon him because they're state cases.
You don't want to do battle with someone with nothing to lose, because he just kept defaming them. He didn't care about the sanctions, didn't care about being held in contempt. These women were never going to get a peaceful nights rest.
So I think they won on that, on that one end. But also, if you're not motivated by -- by money, what's a lot of money? Is $1 million a lot of money? Is $2 million a lot of money? Is $5 million, a lot of money?
If you're not motivated by money, I don't think you need all that much money to be happy. And I don't think it takes a lot for these women to be happy.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Randy, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
It's a fascinating story. And we can assume that obviously there's -- there's nondisclosure agreements were signed and I don't know what we will know, but it is a mystery.
Well, next, TikTok is quickly running out of time. How many people use it? I mean, $170 million. It's crazy how many people use it. And guess what? They're flocking in mass somewhere else. And guess what they picked? This is the way of the world, right? A site that has even deeper ties to China, if that's possible.
Plus, an OUTFRONT exclusive tonight, our Phil Mattingly went down to Panama to see what Trump is so focused on there at the Miraflores Locks on the canal, and whether Trump's claims about the canal add up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Tonight, Donald Trump racing against the clock to save TikTok. Sources are telling us that Trump is considering an executive order to delay the TikTok ban, which is set to take effect on Sunday, the day before he becomes president again. And as we mentioned, the TikTok CEO will attend that inauguration.
In the meantime, some of TikTok's 170 million users who would be affected by this are posting videos like this one.
[19:35:09]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys, the government is trying so hard to take TikTok away from us, but wait until they find out we're all moving to the Chinese version.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I already downloaded an account.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The black hole of TikTok, man.
All right. It's funny though. She's got a good point. And the user is talking about an app called RedNote, which has deep ties to the Chinese government.
In fact, the terms of service that Americans click to accept are only available in Mandarin. Talk about buyer beware.
Will Ripley is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Who else is here from TikTok?
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Hey, y'all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're from Texas. Thank you for welcoming us to the app.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do not trust TikTok will ever embrace American values.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With TikTok's future hanging by a thread, a huge surge of users are flooding a surprise alternative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so much better than TikTok.
RIPLEY: RedNote, the English name for Xiaohongshu, meaning "Little Red Book", drawing comparisons to a collection of Mao Zedong's quotes small enough to carry around.
RedNote is a Chinese communist government monitored social media platform, now topping Apple's U.S. App Store.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome TikTok refugees. RedNote is not Instagram.
RIPLEY: Many say they came here out of spite.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I refuse to support Facebook, Meta, especially Elon Musk and X.
RIPLEY: And they're making unexpected cross-cultural connections.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey there, fellow TikTok refugee here, and I just wanted to say I have no idea how to speak Chinese.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today I would like to teach you some Chinese.
RIPLEY: Some users searching for international romance or the perfect Chinese name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me help you to pick one that suits you.
RIPLEY: One post even recreates famous Chinese and Russian propaganda posters.
Just days ago, this may have seemed unthinkable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was scared that TikTok was going to go away, so I wanted to find an alternative.
RIPLEY: Heather Roberts from Texas says TikTok refugees like her are desperate to find a new platform. A new social media fix.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven't been on RedNote for very long. I've only been on there for maybe three days and I found myself like, wow, this is this is very addicting. Id probably say it's a little bit more addicting than TikTok.
RIPLEY: An addicting algorithm, exactly what app developers want.
Experts say there are risks when it comes to the rise of another Chinese app. Just like TikTok, RedNote collects huge amounts of user data. China's laws require companies to share that data with the government, but only if requested. Heavy censorship is already affecting American users, some getting their first taste of China's tightly controlled internet.
Users say posts on topics deemed sensitive by Chinese authorities are being deleted, including LGBTQ+ issues and even a popular Japanese anime. Other posts face backlash flooded with negative or offensive comments.
Some new users report racist questions, including whether it's okay to use the N-word.
Let's say that TikTok goes away and a lot of Americans flood into these Chinese apps. Is that a win for Beijing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it really depends on Beijing's view on how much they need to be in control of the narrative.
RIPLEY: As the U.S. Supreme Court and incoming Trump administration debate TikTok's fate, the rise of RedNote raises new questions and concerns about Americans embracing yet another platform under Chinese government control.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (on camera): So, now, you have this surge of American TikTok refugees joining the more than 300 million -- 300 million mostly Chinese, on RedNote. You have cross-cultural memes popping up all these conversations. The government censors in Beijing, Erin, probably -- you know, just try to keep up with all of this and monitor this, which is why RedNote has put out a job posting. They're looking for people with very excellent English skills. They say it's for back end data processing.
You've got to wonder if they need some help to try to censor all of this English language content. I need to say, for legal reasons, we've been trying since Tuesday by phone and email to reach RedNote, Erin, and they have not gotten back to us.
BURNETT: Okay. The whole -- the whole -- I love the way you said just in the middle of your piece, though, addictive algorithm. Maybe that's the heart of the problem with all of this. Forget who owns it. It all is troubling.
Okay. Thank you very much, Will.
Harry Enten is here.
Yeah?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yeah.
BURNETT: Yeah. Tell me something I don't know.
ENTEN: I'll tell you --
BURNETT: I do know there's an issue with all the algorithms and spending your life living in these rabbit holes. However, tell me something I don't know. Okay, but also, you've got, like, what, 170 million Americans who are using TikTok now, many of them, or some number of them are flocking over to other places, including this RedNote -- how many people are we really talking about here?
ENTEN: I'll tell you two things you don't know. Number one, I feel like I was going insane watching Will's piece.
The second thing I'll tell you that you may not know is --
BURNETT: I knew that. I could tell --
ENTEN: You might have known that. Our viewers might not have known that.
The second is, you know, how many people have joined, you know, this RedNote in just a week. As of Monday, we're talking over 3 million folks who joined in just a week. That's the new weekly users for that.
Clapper, Clare Duffy reported out that there were 1.4 million over the last week I think since Wednesday. And over 600,000 on Lemon8 as of Monday. That is also a Chinese app, in fact, that's run by the exact same folks who run TikTok.
I mean, what the heck is going on out there?
BURNETT: I mean, you don't need to own an app to get on there and, you know, fill it with whatever propaganda you want to fill it. I mean, so the whole thing does, you know, separating -- separating from the ban.
ENTEN: Yeah.
BURNETT: TikTok use has exploded in the U.S. I mean, exploded.
ENTEN: It's absolutely exploded. And more than that, people are addicted. It's like crack to young folks. I mean, you take ages 18 to 29. How many of them are visiting the site? At least daily? We're talking 44 percent.
In 2014, 2015, it was zero percent because TikTok did not exist. Look at that rapid growth. My goodness gracious.
BURNETT: I'm disturbed. Yeah, you should be, I am disturbed. Okay, so Trump used to dislike TikTok strongly. Now he's done a 180. And there's a reason why.
ENTEN: Yeah, I think there's a pretty good reason why young people love TikTok, as we mentioned. And we know that young folks have become a larger part of Trump's base. His percentage of the vote among voters under the age of 30 was 36 and 36. In 2016, 2020, jumped up to 2024, young men specifically, he's dominating with them and they love TikTok.
BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much.
ENTEN: There is something for you.
BURNETT: Unfortunately disturbing.
ENTEN: Disturbing, hilariously disturbing.
BURNETT: I don't know why it was. Will Ripley just somehow -- he broke me there a little bit.
All right. Next, an OUTFRONT exclusive. Trump says that the Panama Canal is being run by China. Well, is it right now? Our Phil Mattingly is down there at the canal, went down to see what's really going on.
And their home made it through the wildfires. But it was no match for what happened next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:43]
BURNETT: Tonight, a CNN investigation and OUTFRONT exclusive, Trump's obsession with the Panama Canal. So our Phil Mattingly went down -- went to Panama as Trump has repeatedly threatened to take back the canal and has left military force on the table.
Phil talks to the man who ran the canal for nearly a decade. He says Trump is not telling the truth about the critical waterway that provides a massive shortcut. Obviously, you know, otherwise you got to go all the way down around South America connects the Atlantic and Pacific.
Phil Mattingly is OUTFRONT reporting tonight from Panama.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the Panama Canal, a 51-mile corridor linking the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Its creation helped the United States become a global superpower.
Most people don't get access to this. But what you're standing on top of right now, it's a modern marvel. It is an engineering miracle. Only twice in the history of the Panama Canal has transit actually stopped. It's that invaluable to world trade, to the world economy, to geopolitics in general. It also underscores why any president, President-elect Trump being one of them, cares so deeply about its operations.
Now, Trump's interest in the Panama Canal, it makes a lot of sense. It's 4 percent of global shipping. That's what comes through here on an annual basis, 40 percent of U.S. containers come through this waterway. But what people here unequivocally do not understand is why, after 25 years of smooth operations under Panama's control, all of a sudden Trump is threatening to take it back and refusing to rule out using military force to do so.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Panama Canal is a disgrace.
MATTINGLY: He's railed against how the canal is being run and Chinas growing influence around the waterway.
TRUMP: They charge more for our ships than they charge for ships of other countries. They charge more for our navy than they charge for navies of other countries. They laugh at us because they think were stupid, but we're not stupid anymore.
Chinas at both ends of the Panama Canal. China is running the Panama Canal.
MATTINGLY: I asked the man who was in charge of the canal for seven years, Jorge Luis Quijano, about those claims.
Does the canal charge U.S. ships more than others?
JORGE LUIS QUIJANO, FORMER PANAMA CANAL ADMINISTRATOR: No.
MATTINGLY: Does the canal charge the U.S. Navy more than others?
QUIJANO: No.
MATTINGLY: Are there Chinese troops operating in the canal?
QUIJANO: No.
MATTINGLY: Does Beijing or the Chinese communist party operate the canal?
QUIJANO: Definitely no.
MATTINGLY: Trump's current Panama fixation has left officials here perplexed and frustrated, but also cognizant of the former real estate magnates roots in the country, long before his turn to politics.
TRUMP: Well, my interest in Panama really began when we had the Miss Universe contest in Panama, which I own. I own the Miss Universe, and it was one of the most successful contests we've ever had.
MATTINGLY: Not all of his business dealings in Panama have been a success.
There's a complicating factor for Panamanian officials trying to figure out what the president-elect actually wants here. And that starts right here, because this building, this building is the tallest building in Central America, and it is a building that used to be known as the Trump International Tower and Hotel, also home of the Trump Ocean Club.
[19:50:02]
Now it is neither.
The gleaming 70-floor resort marked Trump's first international hotel venture, a massive project, mired by mountains of litigation and confrontation that led to the removal of Trump's name from the property, halfway through his first term in the White House. As for Trump's attack on the terrible deal that set in motion the U.S.
handover of the canal and its surrounding zone to Panama, that's rooted in an even longer standing preoccupation.
TRUMP: Jimmy Carter gave the Panama Canal away for nothing. Zero. In other words, they said, we want the canal. He said, oh, okay, even though we spent the equivalent of many billions of dollars to build it.
MATTINGY: Now, Trump is calling for Panama to reduce the tolls and rates U.S. ships pay to transit the canal, or else.
ILYA ESPINO DE MAROTTA, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR OF THE CANAL: That was one of our dredges working on it.
MATTINGLY: I put that to Ilya Espino de Marotta, deputy administrator of the canal.
You know, one of the things that you hear from people in the United States is just all Trump wants is you just cut the rates a little bit for U.S. ships or make some adjustments there just for U.S. ships.
Is that a plausible option?
DE MAROTTA: It's not a possible option.
MATTINGLY: Why not?
DE MAROTTA: Because of the treaties.
MATTINGLY The same treaties Trump rails against mandate equal treatment of all vessels. No U.S. carve-outs.
Trump has also ignored that the canal today is far bigger than the one handed over by the United States. There was an expansion.
DE MAROTTA: Yes.
MATTINGLY: The U.S. government played what role in the expanded version?
DE MAROTTA: Okay. As far as -- financially, none.
MATTINGLY: More than half of the revenue that comes in from the Panama Canal doesn't come in through the one that the United States was integral in building. It comes in through the expansion.
DE MAROTTA: That's right.
This is the Atlantic side.
MATTINGLY: Marotta led the massive $5.2 billion project, which dramatically expanded the size of cargo ships that can traverse the canal.
So when President-elect Trump says he's taking -- he wants to take the canal back. Do you guys get to keep the one you did?
QUIJANO: No, no, no. We get we get to keep everything.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: You know, Erin, we were down there for four, almost five days. And what was most striking was the consistency of two things. One, the confusion is very real. There are so many kind of concentric circles here that officials, current and former, are trying to figure out whether its Trump's very robust and aggressive, more hemispheric national security strategy. Obviously, China's influence and the role it plays, their economic issues, potentially a shipping magnate who whispered into his ear at Mar-a-Lago that he wanted his rates cut. All of these things are plausible.
But what we did see is a seriousness with which officials are taking Trump's comments. They know he wants something. What it is, though, they think they're going to have to wait to figure it out until after inauguration next week.
BURNETT: All right. Phil Mattingly, absolutely fascinating. There just so much detail and that kind of detail now matters so much.
All right. After this, a home that survived the wildfires, a miracle in and of itself. But then what you couldn't imagine is what happened next. We'll show you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:46]
BURNETT: Tonight, a house that survived the Palisades Fire, miracle, was just taken out by a massive mudslide.
Nick Watt is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That little blue house with perfect views of the Pacific somehow survived the raging Palisades Fire destroyed days later by a mudslide.
Steve Edwards owns the place, he lived around the corner in another home with his new wife. That house, that whole neighborhood, burned to the ground.
Does it feel any different to have a property survive the fire and then get destroyed in the aftermath?
STEPHEN EDWARDS, LOST HOME IN MUDSLIDE: Well, it's just a gut punch because my wife and I thought, oh, well, at least we have this house. We can go live there.
WATT: We drove Steve into the evacuation zone to take a look for the first time.
EDWARDS: So then that light right there --
WATT: Here's what the little blue house looks like up close.
I'm sorry. Steve.
EDWARDS: My kids are sad. You know, my wife's sad. It's just -- as of Thursday night, we're like, oh, look, it's standing. It's intact. We're going to come live here. Okay, great, new life. Let's do it here. And then you get kicked in the teeth.
WATT: The mudslide hit Friday morning.
Steve is a composer, scores a lot of movies and TV shows. A favorite piano is still in that crumpled house.
1904 Steinway just sitting right there.
EDWARDS: Right against that wall. Yeah, and I'll bet it's intact. Those things are built like, you know, Sherman tanks. Now, of course, what I'm thinking is, how do we get that piano out? It's just leaning up against that wall.
WATT: Mudslides could become more of a problem around here.
MARK PESTRELLA, DIRECTOR, LA COUNTY PUBLIC WORKS: If you have slopes behind your homes or if you're located on the top of a slope, these slopes have become fragile. There are mud and debris flow hazards that are existing even when its not raining.
WATT: Back in 2018, mudslides killed 23 people just a little further north in Montecito, when heavy rain fell just a few weeks after a wildfire had stripped the hillside.
Vegetation helps hold hillsides together. A lot of that burned these past ten days, and we've seen a lot of water flowing down the streets, pipes burst.
EDWARDS: Why the water didn't get shut off. There are a lot of questions about that.
WATT: This might never be rebuilt.
EDWARDS: They'd have to completely rebuild the hillside. Cost millions of dollars. And that, you know, my poor neighbors.
WATT: Steve wants to return to the Palisades one day. But for now, he's playing a borrowed piano in someone else's home, "Bridge Over Troubled Water", make sense.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATT: Now, from this angle, Erin, you can really see just how close the fire came to this house, I mean, feet away. Miraculously, it didn't burn. Mudslide a couple of days later.
Steve, as I said, wants to return. He's realistic. He knows its going to be a few years -- Erin.
BURNETT: Gosh, it's unbelievable. All right. Nick Watt, thank you very much.
And before we go earlier, I said Rudy Giuliani was convicted of defamation. I want to be clear. It was a civil case, which means he was found liable for defamation.
Thanks for joining us.
"AC360" begins now.
