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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Netanyahu's Defiant Response to Biden; Israel-Hamas War; Netanyahu: If We have to Stand Alone; We Will Stand Alone; Trump Attacks Judge's Integrity; Stormy Daniels' Testimony Ends; Rio Grande do Sul Flooding Kills 107; Neuralink's Surgical Setback; Baidu Blunder; Baidu's PR Chief Leaving; Defeating Deepfakes; TikTok and Adobe Teams Up; TikTok's Deepfake Battle; Unbelievable Unbeaten Run; Family of Bears Take Over Backyard Pool. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 09, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: This GM will retool the factory to make electric vehicles. Both GM and Ford have phased out gas powered sedans to
concentrate on larger and more popular SUVs, trucks, sports cars, and electric vehicles.
If you ever miss an episode of "The Lead," you can listen to the show whence you get your podcast. The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: 6:00 a.m. in Beijing 7:00 p.m. in San Paolo and 6:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And
wherever you are in the world, this is your "First Move."
A warm welcome to "First Move" as always. And here's today's need to know. Israel can stand alone. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's defiant
response to President Biden's threat to withhold weapons if Rafah is attacked.
A contentious cross-examination. Stormy Daniels testimony wrapping up at Trump's hush money trial in New York.
Baidu blunder. The Chinese search giant's PR chief reportedly leaving the firm following social media posts lambasting their workers.
And defeating deepfakes. TikTok and Adobe teaming up to tag A.I.-generated content. That conversation and plenty more coming up.
But first, if we have to stand alone, we will stand alone. That's right. That's the firm message from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to
the Israeli people. And the Israeli military says it has enough weapons to invade Rafah. It follows Wednesday's warning from U.S. President Joe Biden
that he will halt certain weapons shipments if Israel targets Rafah's population centers.
The threat to withhold military aid has sparked backlash from some on Capitol Hill. Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson says he hopes that the
president was having a "senior moment." And Democratic Senator John Fetterman says he doesn't agree with the president's decision either.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): It demonstrates to Hamas that they're winning the PR war and things. And also, the president cares about the casualties,
innocents in Gaza and Hamas doesn't. And that's part of the plan. So, they are exploiting compassion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Meanwhile, U.S. officials say the ceasefire talks are now paused in Egypt as the Israeli military expands its operations in Rafah.
Clarissa Ward joins us now from Jerusalem. Clarissa, great to have you with us tonight.
Deep frustration, I think, in Israel. Defiance, though, from Prime Minister Netanyahu, who is under excruciating pressure, even greater pressure, as he
decides how to proceed.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Julia. We have seen a lot of reaction coming out from Israeli government officials
today to President Biden's decision. None of it positive.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as you said, in a fiery speech, ahead of Independence Day here, said essentially that Israel will go it alone if it
has to. The quote he said was "We will fight with our fingernails."
Also, we heard from War Cabinet Minister Benny Gantz who said, the U.S. has a moral and strategic obligation to supply Israel with the necessary tools
to complete its mission. And from the hard right national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, he posted on X, "Hamas hearts Biden." So, I
think that gives you a flavor, Julia, for some of the reactions that we are seeing here.
But the broader question as to whether Biden's announcement will in any way deter Israel has yet to be answered. Though all indications at this stage
from the rhetoric we are hearing would seem to portend that Israel is going to continue ahead with its plans.
We heard today through a source close to the talks, the ceasefire talks, which are now on pause, as you said, that the Israeli delegation
communicated to mediators that Israel intended to continue fighting in Rafah. And we also heard tellingly from the IDF spokesman, Daniel Hagari,
who said that the IDF has the weapons it needs to continue with its operations inside Rafah.
So, all of that giving a lot of fear and anxiety from those in the International Community and all the various aid organizations who have
really been putting crushing pressure on Israeli authorities to not go ahead with a much-feared broader offensive inside Rafah, Julia.
[18:05:00]
CHATTERLEY: And, Clarissa, I think to the point about the ceasefire talks, which are and were running parallel at least to the concerns over an
intensification of the Israeli operations in Rafah, I think it's clear that without U.S. weaponry, Israel is in a weaker position, even if they have
the weaponry, as they say, to go into Rafah.
As far as those negotiations are concerned, are Israel and Hamas for that matter in a weaker or stronger position as a result of President Biden's
announcement and the decision that they've made to restrict that weaponry today?
WARD: Well, it's interesting because Israel has been saying, or certain members of the government have been saying that Biden's decision
essentially emboldens or strengthens Hamas. So, that is one perspective that we're hearing.
And then, as I told you, the Israeli delegation has said that essentially, they're going to press on with this fighting inside Rafah. They have a very
different perspective on this situation. The White House has said that they believe that the operation or the sort of limited operation that has
already been taking place on the edge of Eastern Rafah has played into Hamas's hands, has strengthened it.
So, everybody has a different perspective on all of this. The White House is still holding out some hope. We heard from National Security
Spokesperson John Kirby earlier who said that he believes with some moral courage and moral leadership that it would still be possible to close the
gaps between the two sides. But at this stage, those gaps are significant.
And as I said before, no sense that Israel is willing to hit the brakes in terms of continuing with operations in Rafah, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Thanks to Clarissa Ward there, and we appreciate, in particular, it's 1:00 a.m. in the morning there. So, thank you. Great to
get you live.
Now, day 14 of Donald Trump's hush money trial in New York ended with the former president attacking the integrity of the presiding judge yet again.
Trump called Judge Merchan corrupt and conflicted after he denied the defense's latest motion for a mistrial. It comes after a second day of
testimony from the adult film star Stormy Daniels, a central figure in the case. The defense repeatedly attacking her credibility and claims about the
former president. Kara Scannell has more on the day's events.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back on the stand, Stormy Daniels, the adult film star at the center of Former President Donald
Trump's hush money case.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think you'll see some very revealing things today.
SCANNELL (voice-over): Trump's lawyer, Susan Necklace, spent over two hours attacking Daniels' credibility during Thursday morning's cross-
examination. Necklace pointed to Daniels' history of making pornographic films, saying, you have a lot of experience making phony stories about sex
appear to be real. Daniels responded, wow, that's not how I would put it. The sex in the films is very much real, just like what happened to me in
that room, referring to her alleged sexual encounter with Trump, which he denies.
Daniels previously testified that the night of their alleged affair she felt faint while she saw Trump posing on the bed in his T-shirt and boxers.
Necklace questioned why that scene would be so upsetting since she appeared in about 150 sex films. Daniels testified it was because she was not
expecting a man twice her age to be naked.
Necklace argued Daniels gained publicity from her story and media appearances, like her interview on "60 Minutes."
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And you had sex with him?
STORMY DANIELS, ALLEGES AFFAIR WITH DONALD TRUMP: Yes.
COOPER: You were 27, he was 60. Were you physically attracted to him?
DANIELS: No.
SCANNELL (voice-over): And she argued Daniels profited it off the alleged affair, pointing to a book deal and documentary, Daniels selling her gear
on her website like #TeamStormy T-shirts, and going on a strip club tour called "Making America Horny Again," a name which Daniels testified she
fought tooth and nail against.
Asked if she celebrated Trump's indictment by selling merchandise like her Saint of Indictments candle, Daniels retorted, not unlike Mr. Trump.
Trump's lawyer, trying to find inconsistencies in her story, pressed Daniels about her dinner with Trump.
COOPER: Did you two go out for dinner that night?
DANIELS: No.
COOPER: You had dinner in the room?
DANIELS: Yes.
SCANNELL (voice-over): Necklace said Daniels changed her story. On Tuesday, Daniels testified they did not have dinner. Daniels defended
herself saying just because they met for dinner does not mean they ate. Saying, I've maintained that I didn't see any food. It was dinner but we
never got food.
The two also went back and forth about an old tweet Daniels sent that said she is "the best person to flush the orange turd down." Necklace argued the
tweet meant she'd be instrumental in putting Trump in jail. Daniels disagreed, saying, I don't see instrumental or jail anywhere in that.
You're putting words in my mouth.
[18:10:00]
Also on the stand, Trump's former White House assistant, Madeleine Westerhout, whose desk was right outside the Oval Office. The jury reviewed
a contact list of people Trump spoke most to, which was sent to Westerhout, that included Cohen, tabloid executive David Pecker among others.
Westerhout testified about an e-mail confirming a February 2017 meeting between Trump and Cohen in the Oval Office.
Prosecutors allege Cohen and Trump worked out the reimbursement for the hush money payment at the crux of the case in the Oval Office that month.
She also confirmed that in her experience, Trump liked to read things before signing them. Westerhout explained that checks were regularly sent
about twice a month from the Trump Organization to Washington. She described bringing them in for Trump to sign and would then FedEx them back
to the company.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: OK. Let's talk more about this with Duncan Levin. He's managing partner and criminal attorney at Levin & Associates. He's also a
former federal prosecutor. Duncan, great to have you with us. What was accomplished, net, prosecution, minus defense in the six hours and 10
minutes of testimony that Stormy Daniels gave?
DUNCAN LEVIN, MANAGING PARTNER AND CRIMINAL ATTORNEY, LEVIN & ASSOCIATES AND FORMER U.S. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, in a way, Stormy Daniels is a
witness that the district attorney's office did not need to call because they are -- have already established a lot of the elements of the crime.
Maybe all of the elements of the crime.
They've established that there were false business records and the Trump caused them to be filed in the books and records of his company. They've
established this intent to commit a fraud on the voters, and they've established this criminal conspiracy between David Pecker, the National
Enquirer, Michael Cohen, and Donald Trump to violate the nation's campaign finance laws by giving this hush money payment to Stormy Daniels.
They didn't really need to call her. The reason that she was called was to lay out for the jury exactly what the story was that Trump was so afraid of
coming out right before the 2016 election, right? After the Access Hollywood tape that almost sank his campaign. His campaign got word that
two women, Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels, were out there trying to sell their stories. That all came out last week in the testimony of Keith
Davidson, Stormy Daniels lawyer.
And at that point, there was a feverish attempt by the Trump campaign to try to buy off Stormy Daniels with a $130,000 payment.
What happened over the last few days is that Stormy Daniels, for the first time, told the story in her own words, and the story was sorted and it
really was the kind of thing that was put out there so that the jury could determine here is what Trump was trying to cover up. It was made it very
visceral.
And I think in attacking her over the last few hours today, the Trump defense really made a huge unforced error because they were reinforcing
what came out on direct examination, this -- all this notion that Trump was a predator, that he was sitting there in his hotel suite in his boxers and
his pajamas looking like Hugh Hefner, that Stormy Daniels was shaking as she was putting on her gold heel shoes. That she felt faint. All of these
things that came out in the direct examination really were reinforced in this direct.
And so, I think they didn't score any points with the jury on cross. And the prosecution, who took a risk in calling a witness with a lot of
baggage, that risk paid off today.
CHATTERLEY: She -- I mean, she also kept the jury awake, which I think is part of the plan and the way that they seem to be interlacing those that
are more pertaining towards falsified documents versus the salacious details that we saw in many respects from Stormy Daniels today.
I guess to your point, if she's not directly related to the falsification of documents and the charges he faces and more to do with his character,
perhaps, and that's what we saw over the last two days, has the prosecution done enough to provide evidence of the charges that the former president
faces? Because in the end, that's what matters.
LEVIN: Sure, because at the heart of it. this crime is one that requires the prosecution to prove his intent. His intent to defraud the voter, his
intent to conceal a crime, and his intent is laid bare circumstantially by how bad the story was. And it fits in like a jigsaw puzzle.
So, whereas she's not a necessary witness to prove intent, she did in spades when that came out, her story was so terrible and now, you
understand why his intent was to conceal it. So, she's an important witness. And really, I thought added to the prosecution's case tremendously
on the actual legal issue at hand.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Duncan, great to have you with us. Thank you, Duncan Levin there.
LEVIN: A pleasure. Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Now, Southern Brazil has been hit by heavy rain and flooding, leaving more than 100 people dead. Water has overwhelmed the City of Porto
Alegre. Close to a million and a half people have been affected in the state of Rio Grande do Sul with hundreds injured.
[18:15:00]
This horse was trapped on a roof for at least 24 hours before fortunately being rescued. And there's little relief in sight with the rain expected to
continue over the weekend. Dario Klein has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARIO KLEIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Behind me, you can see Route BR-101. This is almost the only way you can get to Rio Grande do Sul. The ground zero,
the disaster zone that has been flooded almost entirely and where more than 1 million and a half people have been affected because of these floods.
And in this road, you can see mainly people going out of Rio Grande do Sul, but also people going in. Some people going in. Journalists like us that we
are trying to get there. But you can only see these trucks, this type of truck. This is normal people, regular people. We just spoke with them. That
they are taking supplies for the people in Porto Alegre. They are taking mainly water, food, clothes. And they are taking all types of things that
is being needed there, where more than 100,000 people is living in shelters, going out of their homes and all their jobs, their commerce,
their stores are being affected because of the water.
The government also is taking, the army is taking their supplies there. And we'll see what we find when we get there. We hope to get there before it
gets night. There's a forecast of more rain for today, tomorrow, until the weekend, and that's why the authorities are asking people to stay, not to
go back still, to their homes, to find whatever still is left of their homes in Rio Grande do Sul.
Dario Klein from Santa Catarina, CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And thanks to Dario there. Now, straight ahead, you're up to the minute weather and sport reports.
Plus, a surgical setback? Elon Musk's brain chip implant firm, Neuralink, says its first human patient has encountered a problem. What this could
mean for Musk's dream of transforming neuroscience, next.
Plus, when the head of PR creates, well, bad PR. Baidu's public relations head has reportedly resigned after being caught on video dressing down
employees. The story creating a huge backlash. We've got the details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And a lucky seven on Wall Street tops today's "Money Move." U.S. stocks higher across the board Thursday,
with the Dow up for a seventh straight session. Stocks getting a boost from a sizable jump in jobless claims, which could help the Fed justify future
rate cuts.
The Bank of England too, over in the U.K., hinting Thursday that it's closer to cutting rates this year also. The Bank of England comments,
helping boost European stocks with the London FTSE hitting record highs once again.
And a mixed day across Asia. Chinese shares getting a boost from better- than-expected trade data Thursday. We'll see what Friday's session brings.
Meanwhile, Elon Musk's brain implant startup Neuralink revealing it hit a setback just a few weeks after inserting a chip in its first human patient.
The company says some of the chip's connective threads retracted unexpectedly from the patient's brain, which affected the device. It's
Neuralink ambitions to use these implants to allow humans to operate computers using their thoughts.
Clare Duffy joins us now. Clare, in the initial few weeks we saw and heard of great success in the initial phases of this. Do we know what caused
these threads to become detached and whether or not it's been resolved?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Julia. I mean, as with many of these things surrounding Neuralink, the details here are fairly sparse. We
don't know how or why these threads disconnected. These chips are implanted in the part of the brain that controls the intention to move.
So, in the weeks after this initial surgery, which happened in January, we saw even a video of this first human trial subject, Noland Arbaugh, who has
been quadriplegic since 2016, we saw a video of him controlling a computer mouse, playing chess on a computer with his brain. So, pretty remarkable
stuff.
We don't know just how significant of a setback this is. And again, we don't know how or why exactly this happened. Although, the company did say
that it was able to increase the performance of this device in order to make it make it work a little better after these threads retracted. It's
not clear whether they're going to be able to go in and fix this problem entirely, but they did say that it affected the data processing speeds and
ultimately, the effectiveness of this device.
Now, obviously this is not an ideal situation for this first human trial subject, although this is still a test. And the company had said that the
whole point of this human trial was to study the effectiveness of this device. So, hopefully, they are getting some information, some data about
this that potentially they can fix in the future, because Neuralink has said that it's looking to enroll more human trial subjects this year and
into the coming years. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, this is just trials, but the hope is that the workaround works. But to your point, and it was always the case, information on this
is scarce. Clare, great to have you with us. Thank you. Clare Duffy there.
OK. Here in the United States, parts of Texas and the country's southeast are bracing for tornadoes. There's been more than 300 of them just in the
last two weeks. Officials are also warning of severe storms and damaging wind gusts ahead. It follows deadly and destructive weather that tore
through parts of Central and Southern U.S. on Wednesday. Chad Myers is monitoring the developments for us. Ouch, Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good news yesterday. And the good news is today that today is the last day of this.
CHATTERLEY: Good.
MYERS: So, yes, we really turned the corner for the weekend, but not before lots of damage here in almost, I think, 11 states had some type of
damage from the weather yesterday. All 16 tornadoes on the ground in Windale. And hail today will be larger than tennis balls. But by tomorrow,
that's a bad memory.
323 reports of tornadoes just in the past two weeks. Is that above normal? Absolutely. 639 tornadoes so far in America this year. The average is 550.
So, the average is very high anyway. I mean, this just happens. But we have one more day of it. Down here across the deep south.
Part of the bad news is, kind of counteracting that, is that some of this will continue in the overnight hours happens when people may be sleeping.
Right now, no. There's weather moving offshore in Georgia, but there's also still some strong weather in Texas and some reports of tennis ball size
hail. Could even get to the size of a baseball. I know you don't think that they're that different, but when you put them side by side, there's quite a
bit of a difference.
And also, one tornado on the ground right now to the northeast -- well, northeast of Dallas. So, a couple 100 kilometers to the northeast there.
So, not really worried about that for Dallas. Texas, with more flooding happened yesterday. Rain came down about four to eight inches. Eight inches
is 200 millimeters of rain in about 12 hours. So, you can't take that kind of rain anywhere.
For tomorrow, down to the south and then offshore and a beautiful weekend in store for many Americans here across parts of the state Southeast and
the Midwest, where it has been so violently and deadly across the last couple of weeks. Julia.
[18:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Chad, I was about to say, I mean, you said we're looking forward to the stage where a tennis ball sized hail is going to be a bad
memory. If you get hit by one of those things, you've got more than a bad memory to worry about.
MYERS: Yes. And there's a lot of livestock out there, too.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, yes.
MYERS: So, the farmers and ranchers trying to get them out of the way of that. Sure.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
MYERS: Inside barns and stuff.
CHATTERLEY: Everybody stay safe, please, Chad, thank you.
MYERS: You're welcome.
CHATTERLEY: Chad Myers there. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" with a look at more international headlines this hour. An Israeli singer has made it to Thursday's Eurovision
semifinals and campaigners are calling for a boycott of the competition. Outside the venue, pro-Palestinian demonstrators held a concert of their
own. They were joined by climate activist Greta Thunberg who spoke in support of the protesters.
Chinese President Xi Jinping wrapping up his European tour with a final stop in Hungary. Xi visited France and Serbia earlier in the trip as China
looks to strengthen its relationships across the continent. However, some European nations have become wary of being too dependent on the world's
second largest economy.
A Japanese food company has recalled more than 100,000 packs of bread after rat parts were found inside some loaves. The company says no one has got
sick from eating its bread and it's also taking steps to make sure the problem doesn't happen again. Asia's second largest economy has had several
other food scares in recent years involving dietary supplements, rice balls, and sushi.
[18:30:00]
South Korea's president says he wants to create a new ministry to address its low birth rate. South Korea has the world's lowest birth rate, setting
up a ticking demographic time bomb. Experts blame trends across East Asia, including demanding work cultures and a high cost of living. Government
programs have failed so far to encourage people to have more children.
And the first job of any PR executive is to make sure you don't expose your company to, well, damaging PR. That's what seems to have happened over at
Chinese tech firm Baidu. Its head of PR has reportedly left the firm after videos showed her demeaning employees and making unusual workplace demands.
A big no, no in a nation where many young people have already had enough of the corporate rat race. Some of them making their displeasure known by
dressing down at work in so-called gross work outfits and posting their videos online.
Marc Stewart joins us now. Mark. Just going to check out your outfit to make sure I know where we stand before we have this conversation. OK. You
look very smart, as always.
I just wonder on this, and of course there have been some hoo-has made in China over previous comments, particularly in the tech sector. We spoke a
couple of hours ago about Jack Ma's Alibaba praise for the 996, the 9:00 a.m. to the 9:00 p.m. six days a week suggestion. I just wonder whether, in
this case, it was less about what she said and more about how she said it. It was tough, challenging, sort of bitter perhaps.
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed. Look, I think that ever since the pandemic, employers have really had to take on a new sensitivity, despite
what their ambitions may be people's lives have changed the outlook toward work has changed. And among young people here in China, this is a time of
friction with employers. It's not necessarily this supportive relationship.
I mean, right now, young people in China are very concerned about the economy, but they're also concerned about their wellbeing. They don't like
this rat race. They don't like this competitive work environment. It just does not suit well with them. It's something that we have seen on social
media.
And then, we have this executive or perhaps former executive from such a prominent company as Baidu, which, as you well know, is kind of the
equivalent of Google here in China. When she makes remarks saying, you know, you have to be so dedicated, work so hard that you may forget your
elder son's birthday or her frustration that she has to take family issues of her employees into account saying that she's not a mother-in-law, all of
that creates a lot of strife among young people.
So, despite what corporate China may want to see, I think the point you raise is a valid one. The delivery is so important. And so, now, we have
this situation where there is even more tension in what's already been a fraught kind of environment between this younger generation of workers and
some established professionals from very well-known and established companies. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the challenge is you've got a super high unemployment -- youth unemployment there. So, for many of these bosses that it's not just
the tech sector, it's beyond. They can they can pick and choose who they want. And that means they can be tough on their workers too.
Marc, do you think the sort of backlash and the response that we're seeing here changes anything in terms of the culture?
STEWART: Well, I think that companies have no choice but to listen. Now, right now, of course, there is a high unemployment rate. So, employers do
have this ability to be selective in the hiring process. But as we've talked about before, if we look at the big picture, China has an aging
population. More people are dying than are actually born.
So, it is going to come to a point where corporate China is going to have to have some kind of reckoning that in order to keep these profit margins
up, you have to be productive. And the way you do that is through a young and innovative workforce. So, perhaps this is going to cause some internal
reflection.
I mean, as we saw, so many young people are not really caring about how they look in the workplace, how they dress in the workplace. They're taking
to social media. It's a very real movement. So, I think that this is a concern that is not being ignored. There is just so much discussion on
every level here in China.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the question is to your point, does it change anything? It may or may not. Marc Stewart, great to have you. Thank you so much.
OK. Coming up, TikTok taking an important new step in the war against deepfakes thanks to new technology from Adobe. Adobe's going to tell us how
it's all done and how it can help you spot A.I.-generated content, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." More and more social media sites are saying, to quote a famous rock song, "We won't get fooled again," this
time by artificial intelligence. But what about users? Well, TikTok announced Thursday that it will be the first ever social media platform to
automatically tag A.I.-generated content from other platforms using new technology from Adobe.
Adobe describes its growth Content Credentials tool as a digital nutrition label where every bit of work that went into creating or editing a piece of
content, A.I.-generated or authentic, is documented before it's posted online.
The technology might perhaps have flagged those A.I.-generated fake images of Pope Francis in a puffer jacket, if you remember. This video, too, of
Russian President Vladimir Putin created especially to draw attention to the deepfake threat. And then most recently, the fake pictures of singer
Katy Perry at this week's Met Gala. These were so convincing that they fooled her very own mother.
Now, Adobe's general counsel and chief trust officer, Dana Rao, joins us now to discuss this new technology and how it can help combat online
misinformation. Dana, fantastic to have you with us.
Let's just frame the problem first, because I think much of us today who use social media recognize that there's a lot of deepfakes now being
created. There's misinformation. Trust is falling. Can you quantify the rise in A.I.-generated content that we're seeing?
DANA RAO, CHIEF TRUST OFFICER, ADOBE AND EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, ADOBE: Yes, I think that when we step back and look at the problem, we know that
it's pretty easy to create a synthetic image that looks real today with the generative A.I. tools that you see everywhere. Adobe's own Photoshop has a
generative A.I. model in it, Adobe Firefly. And with just a few words, you can create amazing images for creativity or promotion or marketing.
But we know with the proliferation of these A.I. tools, that anything good can be used for bad. And as you said in some of your examples, but there's
many, many examples of this out there, people can use these A.I. models and just create realistic images, either generated as a whole or composites of
real people and fake things to make real people seem like they're doing something they never did before. And we're seeing that in real-time.
[18:40:00]
Now, what we've thought about as we thought about this problem is there's two aspects to this, right? This deepfake problem, right? First, you're
going to be deceived, right? So, Katy Perry's mother thought she went to the Met Gala, and that's a fun example. But it wasn't as fun when you saw,
you know, a deepfake of President Zelenskyy telling people to lay down their arms, right? And so, there's serious issues that can be caused. That
deception is a problem.
But the real problem is the next time is that it's that doubt you have now. Wow. That image I saw before, I now know it was a fake. What can I trust
online? Can I trust anything online? Because anything digital, images, audio, video, it can be edited, it can be manipulated, and with generative
A.I., it can look real.
CHATTERLEY: This is so important.
RAO: And so, what we said, here -- yes, please go ahead.
CHATTERLEY: No, please carry on. No, no, no, you carry on.
RAO: Yes, just this is what Content Credentials does, the technology that you mentioned that we co-founded with a bunch of other companies. What we
want to do is give people who have something important to say, something true to say a way to be believed in this world where digital deception can
be anywhere.
And that's that nutrition label you mentioned, right? You put that there on a camera, like Sony is a member. You take a picture of the Sony camera. You
add that Content Credential. It'll tell you the identity of who took it, the camera, when, where. It goes to Photoshop, which has credentials. You
make some late edits to it. Maybe if you use A.I., it'll say that.
And then it goes to a news media organization, like the AP or whoever else is a Content Credential member, and you can see right there what happened
to that image and you can decide whether or not you want to trust it. But giving people a way to be believed. That's what we need in this new world.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was just going to say that my big issue with this, and it's exactly what you said, and it echoes a conversation that we had with
Eric Schmidt, the former Google chairman on the show, and he said, even when you tell people it's fake, their brain changes. Even when they know
it's fake, their brain changes. We don't understand why, but it does. And it goes to your, to your point about lack of trust.
And I'm already there. I -- very little now that I assume is real, it's the opposite, which perhaps is a good thing. Everybody should be using this.
Dana, I mean, I use TikTok as the example because they stepped forward and said, look, we're going to adopt this.
How difficult is it for any of the tech giants to be doing this, particularly given we've got, what, half the world going to elections this
year, to the polls? This should be crucial to stop basic misinformation to some of the serious examples you used.
RAO: Yes, it's really important, as you mentioned, with election integrity is critical. And there's so many critical elections going on this year.
What's great about the technology that we help built is we made it an open standard. So, there's a whole bunch of companies who've joined together to
try to create this technology. It's open source. It's open standard. It's easy to implement. And in the initiative itself that's creating this
technology is over 3,000 members now.
So, really, we need to get the implementations out there. And so, we were thrilled that TikTok announced today that they're actually implementing
Content Credentials. And you can see it today, if a person wants to say, hey, authentically and transparently, I'm using A.I. to create an image,
it's going to show up right there on TikTok as being labeled.
Any and anyone who has a Content Credential, whether you're a Sony camera or if OpenAI, who's also announced that they're going to add Content
Credentials to all their images, if all that shows up on TikTok, TikTok now will be able to show you that that was an A.I.-generated image. That's
critical.
CHATTERLEY: So, today, we saw TikTok joining. OpenAI joined Tuesday and said it would eventually embed it in Sora, which is their video generating
model. I think Meta earlier this month as well said they'll start stamping with A.I.-generated content with a sort of made by A.I. label. But then
we've got the big ones, Google, Microsoft, Sony, they're also exploring it.
Would you agree, Dana, that we've seen some of these big tech companies falling over themselves to embed and provide tools to their users that
allowed generative A.I. use? But I just feel like the safeguards that you've tried to pull a council together and getting these tech giants to
adopt has been slower than their efforts to utilize these tools. Would you agree?
RAO: I can't speak for everyone's technical roadmaps. I used to be --
CHATTERLEY: Yes, because they're clients and they're partners. But I think -- yes, I think we can read between the lines on what you think. Yes.
RAO: But we -- Google joined, not only announced that they were going to implement it, but they joined the standards committee as a steering
committee member. So, they really wanted to participate and be an influential member, as did Microsoft. And they are committed to building
the roadmap and implementing this thing.
But there is -- to your point, the time is now. There is a real sense of urgency to get this technology everywhere. We need everyone to join
together and build this technology, not only on the social media platform side, where it's being distributed.
[18:45:00]
We need the media organizations. So many of them have joined AP and Reuters and AFP. BBC has Content Credentials implemented on their sites called BBC
Verify. So, we need everybody to join. And so, many camera manufacturers, I mentioned Sony, but Nikon, Leica, but there's still more to do and there's
more companies we need to join in order to have this real chain of trust from creation to consumption. That's what we need to create. Trust in the
content we're seeing every day.
CHATTERLEY: OK. We're seeing some sort of backfire firework background going on in your screen. So, I don't know whether that's meant. I'm not
quite sure what's happening, but I'll --
RAO: I don't know. Maybe hand gestures make fireworks.
CHATTERLEY: We're going to label it. That was definitely A.I. generated content, and fireworks aren't coming out of you. Now, I've lost my train of
thought, which is actually barely happens on this show.
I was going to ask you, sort of -- as we push through this, because you are making a rallying cry for this, and I do think it's vitally important. What
percent would you say today of A.I.-generated content is labeled? And where should we be aiming for? How -- is it 5 percent, 10 percent, less?
RAO: Yes, it's a great question. I actually don't think that we need to label most content. If you've got your cat jumping through a hula hoop on
Meta, does it really matter whether it was true or not true? Not really. Right.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
RAO: What we really want to do is make sure the important things, right? Did President Biden meet President Zelenskyy? Did that actually happen? The
people who are telling really important things, they should be labeling their content. They should go through that content criticizing process to
prove what they're saying is true.
So, as you, as the public, right, when you're seeing content, you should say to yourself, is this important? Is this an important story they're
telling me? If so, why didn't they use Content Credentials to show that this was true? And if they didn't, then back to where you were, Julia, they
should be skeptical.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that's how we protect ourselves as unis as well. Dana, fantastic to have you with us. Thank you for the fireworks. I'm still
not quite sure how that happened.
RAO: Great. I don't know --
CHATTERLEY: Great to chat to you.
RAO: I'm happy to bring a little sparkle into the interview.
CHATTERLEY: And there you go. And that's what you did. The general counsel and chief trust officer at Adobe, thank you so much. We'll speak soon.
RAO: Thank you. Appreciate it.
CHATTERLEY: OK. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they'll be on my X and Instagram pages. You can search for @jchatterleyCNN.
Now, coming up, an unbelievable unbeaten run. Germany's Leverkusen reaching their first European final in over two decades in what can only be
described as dramatic fashion. The details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." German champions Leverkusen reaching their first European final since 2001 with more dramatic late
goals. Look at that celebration. And they've extended their remarkable unbeaten run this season now to 49 games.
[18:50:00]
Senior Sports Analyst Darren Lewis back with us. Darren, we're very lucky this week. What a run. Never mind the European finals. What a run of games.
DARREN LEWIS, CNN SENIOR SPORTS ANALYST: And what context as well, Julia. Hello again. Thank you for having me back on the show.
And just to sum up what we have seen tonight, the Europa League is often seen as a correlation to the Champions League. And so, that's why tonight
is so special because the German club Leverkusen, they've achieved something no other team in the elite European competition has ever
achieved. As you've said, they've broken the record for remaining undefeated across three competitions for 49 games. The old record was set
up by a Portuguese couple (ph) of Benfica in the '60s.
And just to put into context, what Leverkusen have done, some of the greatest teams and the greatest managers in football. So Guardiola, Benga,
Sir Alex Ferguson, Sir Matt Busby. Last night, you and I, Julia, talked about the legendary Carlo Ancelotti, none of them have ever done what
Leverkusen are doing. It's an absolutely outstanding achievement.
CHATTERLEY: I have to say, you have to talk us through the goals as well, because I've just been -- I was sort of listening to you but also watching
the goals and these were pretty exceptional.
LEWIS: They were indeed. The two goals that were initially scored by the Italian club Roma were penalties, but the goals that were scored by
Leverkusen, one of them was direct from a corner and then the other was scored, it was almost the final kick of the game. And there is significance
with that one because 31 times so far this season, Leverkusen have come from behind to remain either unbeaten or to win the game on 16 of those
occasions, they have scored in the 90th minute or later. And now, they're just four games away from entering the Hall of Fame of football.
And just to run you through what they've got left, Julia, they play the Italian club Atalanta in the Europa League final on May 22. They then have
two games left in their domestically, very winnable games where they've already won the title, and then they play in the German Cup final on May 29
against Kaiserslautern.
Win those games, Julia, and the club from a town the size of Oxford, they will indeed enter the Hall of Fame of football.
CHATTERLEY: Wow. Got to put a sneaky bet on that. Darren Lewis -- tempting. Darren Lewis, thank you so much. Have a wonderful rest of the
evening.
LEWIS: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Short though it may be. Thank you.
Now, SpaceX is unveiling a new suit for the first ever commercial spacewalk. Extra vehicular activity suit is for both pressurized and
unpressurized environments. A 3D printed helmet incorporates a new visor to reduce glare. And the camera that provides information, including the
suit's pressure and temperature.
SpaceX plans to use the new suits during a Polaris Dawn mission into orbit. That could happen in just a few months' time.
And finally, on "First Move," a California home turns into a regular animal house with some barely important visitors stopping by for a splash in the
pool. That's right. One couple has somehow become besties with a bunch of bears. However, it comes at a cost too, namely the lives of some innocent
unicorns and some dinosaurs. Jeanne Moos has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a bear pool party in a people pool, but the owners don't bear a grudge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely the bears swim in the pool three to five times a week.
MOOS (voice-over): A mama bear, they call Maddie, and her two cubs are regular guests these days at the home of Ricky Martinez and Brian Gordon in
the foothills of Los Angeles County.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've killed unicorns, dinosaurs.
MOOS (voice-over): Like this inflatable unicorn. But after a young bear dragged it into the pool, well, this is how it ended. The bears have
destroyed at least five or six floaties, not to mention the floating pool lights they've chewed up. They've lifted and licked the fryer, climbed the
big tree. Maddie has used it as a back scratcher. When a delivery of patio furniture arrived, a bear tried to open it.
When the guys first moved in a year and a half ago, they were a little nervous. But now --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love living with them.
MOOS (voice-over): -- the humans could feel like they're the ones being observed in a zoo, especially when bears get right up against the glass.
[18:55:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see how long their claws are.
MOOS (voice-over): And then stand up like a person. The guests of this pool party have been known to not just play with the chlorinator, but to
actually run away with it.
To replace the slaughtered unicorns, the guys opted for a bear inflatable. And if the bears eat their own, well, the owners plan to just grin and bear
it.
Jeannie Moos, CNN --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll give him props if he makes it to next week.
MOOS (voice-over): -- New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: The bare necessities, clearly, of living in California. I know you can barely cope with any more puns. I'll stop now.
That just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us, and I'll see you tomorrow. I hope.
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