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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Hunter Biden Convicted of Three Gun Charges; Biden Speaks on Gun Safety; Hamas Responds to Gaza Ceasefire Deal; Sinwar: "We Have the Israelis Right Where We Want Them"; Americans Stabbed in China; Musk's Lawyers to Drop Lawsuit on OpenAI; Impact of Trump and Hunter Biden Convictions in U.S. Election; Infinium Creating Carbon Neutral E-Fuels; North Korean Football Star Mystery. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired June 11, 2024 - 18:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNNI HOST: It's 6:00 a.m. in Beijing, 11:00 p.m. in London, and 6:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley, and wherever
you are in the world, this is your "First Move."
And a warm welcome once again to "First Move." And here's today's need to know. Guilty as charged, Hunter Biden convicted of three gun charges. While
his father, President Biden, speaks out about gun safety, no mention of his son, but he hugged him, later.
Hamas leader leaks. The terror group responds to the ceasefire deal while its military leader is reportedly caught saying, we have the Israelis right
where we want them.
Stabbing suspect detained. Four Americans and a Chinese tourist attacked in a public park in China. The motive remains unclear.
And friendlier fuel. We'll hear from the Bill Gates backed startup creating carbon neutral e-fuels. Don't worry, we'll explain all. That conversation
and plenty more coming up.
But first, the conviction of Hunter Biden, the son of the U.S. president, found guilty on all three gun charges. The jury concluded that he lied when
he purchased a gun in 2018 by saying he was not using nor addicted to drugs. The special counsel for the case saying no one is above the law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID WEISS, SPECIAL COUNSEL AND U.S. ATTORNEY FOR DISTRICT OF DELAWARE: Hunter Biden should be no more accountable than any other citizen convicted
of this same conduct. The prosecution has been, and will continue to be committed to this principle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Hunter Biden could now face a maximum of 25 years in prison and a fine of up to $750,000. Though, just to be very clear, as a first-
time offender, he'll likely receive a far lower sentenced than the maximum. And that sentencing is taking place -- is set to take place in October just
ahead of the U.S. presidential election.
Now, following the verdict, Hunter Biden said in a statement, "I am more grateful today for the love and support I experienced this last week from
my wife, Melissa, my family, my friends, and my community than I am disappointed by the outcome." Paula Reid has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): President Joe Biden's son, Hunter, left federal court in Wilmington, Delaware today,
a convicted felon.
A jury of six men and six women took less than three hours to find him guilty on three counts related to a 2018 gun purchase. A few jurors spoke
to CNN after court adjourned. One questioned whether the case should have been brought in the first place saying, it seemed like a waste of taxpayer
dollars. But another juror told CNN that this was a legitimate pursuit.
REID: I mean, do you think that this was a legitimate use of taxpayer resources to bring this case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do. I do believe it.
REID (voice-over): Despite feeling badly for Hunter and his battles with addiction, the 12 jurors agreed that they had no choice but to convict.
JUROR 10: All 12 jurors did agree that, yes, he knowingly bought a gun when he was an addict or he was addicted to drugs.
REID (voice-over): And the jurors interviewed by CNN said politics played no role in their decision.
JUROR 10: President Biden never really even came in to play for me. His name was only brought up once during the trial and that's when I -- that's
what it kind of kind of sunk in a little bit. But you kind of put that out of your mind.
REID (voice-over): President Biden released a statement after his son's verdict, saying in part, I am the president, but I am also a dad. Jill and
I love our son, and we are so proud of the man he is today, and I will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial
process as Hunter considers an appeal.
Hunter also issued a statement after court, thanking his wife and supporters, saying, I am more grateful today for the love and support I
experienced this last week from Melissa, my family, my friends, and my community, than I am disappointed by the outcome.
Special Counsel David Weiss made a rare statement defending the case.
WEISS: Ultimately, this case was not just about addiction, a disease that haunts families across the United States, including Hunter Biden's family.
This case was about the illegal choices defendant made while in the throes of addiction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[18:05:00]
CHATTERLEY: For more on the outcome and future sentencing, we're joined by Duncan Levin. He's former federal prosecutor and now managing partner at
Levin & Associates. Duncan, great to have you with us.
What did you make of the jury's decision on this? And can we talk about what is likely in terms of sentencing? Because I mentioned the maximums,
but I don't think anyone believes he's likely to see that.
DUNCAN LEVIN, MANAGING PARTNER, LEVIN & ASSOCIATES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND FORMER U.S. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes. Thanks, Julia. I mean,
look, this is a very sad case about addiction. It's a legally correct verdict. It was a pretty straightforward case from the beginning to the
end, but it's a human tragedy because this case, remember, came about because the law enforcement found a gun that was tossed into a dumpster by
his then girlfriend Hallie Biden, who was also his sister-in-law. And Joe - - and the defendant himself took steps for it to be retrieved. And that's what led to this case.
This case was supposed to be wrapped up with a plea deal that would wrap up not only this case but unrelated tax case -- unrelated tax charges that Mr.
Biden is facing in September in California that relates to the unfiling of tax returns for a million four in unreported income. That's a far more
serious case, but that was supposed to resolve alongside this case on two misdemeanor tax charges and pretrial diversion.
So, this was not supposed to go to trial at all until the judge really scuttled the plea agreement, for a variety of reasons, this went to trial.
So, for that reason, it's very unlikely to result in any jail time whatsoever. This was a case that was supposed to resolve with pretrial
diversion and frankly, nothing other than that at all.
So, I think that it's a sad case. It's a strong case for the government, but the jurors are right in a way. It's not a case that should have gone to
trial. It's one that should have been resolved far before that. And I think politics were part of it. And also, the judge did not want to be the one
who was in charge of deciding whether the -- Mr. Biden was in continued compliance with the plea deal.
CHATTERLEY: It's interesting as well to hear what we just heard from my colleague, Paula Reid, as well, when some of the juror is saying, look, we
consider this a waste of taxpayers' money and that perhaps the politics of this did not come into it as far as they were concerned.
But just if I sum up what you were saying there, do you think the likelihood of an appeal here and an appeal that overturns this decision is
possible?
LEVIN: I think he'll likely appeal it, but it's -- there aren't really that many issues for him to appeal. This judge did hobble the defense at
every turn. And I think the appeal to the extent that we will see one will center around the politics of it. This is a tough judge who was appointed
by Donald Trump himself. So, you could say the politics played into that.
But really, this is a judge who scuttled a plea deal that was supposed to wind up with no jail time. And the judge made a number of rulings early on
in the case that really critic -- sort of critically injured the defense case. There was evidence that this form that Mr. Biden filled out at the
gun dealership was altered by somebody at the gun dealership and the judge would not allow the defense to introduce that altered form.
The judge would not allow the defense to call an expert witness to testify about Mr. Biden's own state of mind that he did not believe himself to be
addicted at the time that he wrote the -- he filled out the form. form, which was a critical part of the defense case. So, the judge really did a
lot to try to box out the defense from being able to put forth a fulsome case to the jury. And I think that to the extent that you see an appeal,
it'll likely revolve around that.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. That's what we watch for now, the likelihood and delivery of some form of appeal documentation and of course the sentencing in around
four months' time. Duncan, great to have you with us. Thank you. Duncan Levin there, former federal prosecutor.
Now, in a brief statement, President Joe Biden said he would accept the outcome of the case while standing by his son. The verdict came just hours
before the U.S. president was set to deliver remarks on gun safety at an event in Washington. Now, while Joe Biden did not address the elephant in
the room, he did criticize his predecessor's stance on gun control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: After a school shooting in Iowa that killed a student and a teacher, my predecessor was asked about it. You remember what
he said? He said, you have to get over it. Hell no, we don't have to get over it. You got to stop it. You got to stop it and stop it now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And the U.S. president updated his schedule after his son's conviction, heading straight to Wilmington rather than remaining in
Washington.
OK. Let's move on. A ceasefire and hostage deal backed by the United States facing fresh obstacles 12 days after President Joe Biden pushed the deal,
Hamas now responding.
[18:10:00]
A source familiar with the talk says the group has made amendments to the proposal, including a timeline for a permanent ceasefire. Israel, though,
is portraying the Hamas response as a rejection. The Israeli government, for its part, had expressed support for the proposal earlier in the day,
but said it would continue its campaign until Hamas was destroyed. All this comes as leaked messages from the military leader of Hamas reveal that he
believes he has the upper hand in negotiations, that according to "The Wall Street Journal" reporting.
For more on this, I'm joined by Oren Liebermann. Oren, what is the status of those negotiations at this stage? Because it did appear that Israel was
backing agreeing to the ceasefire proposal. But now, amendments from Hamas suggest it's as difficult as it ever has been with this for future
negotiation.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And was thrown right back into turmoil. Secretary of State Antony Blinken hope to come here to make
progress and perhaps there were some signs, especially with Hamas' positive statements and noises about the U.N. Security Council resolution calling
for a ceasefire. And yet, to introduce amendments here throws everything sort of back into question.
Israel has portrayed this as Hamas' rejection of the proposal that President Joe Biden backed 12 days ago, and Hamas finally responded to
publicly. The question now, where does this go from here? First, crucially, we have to wait to hear from the White House, which is still reviewing it.
The Egyptians and the countries to see their perspective.
The plan, at least for now, from what we're hearing, is to keep pushing forward with a negotiation effort, even if it's on the rocks right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): In an all-out push to stop the fighting in Gaza, negotiators are hoping for elusive success. The focus is on Yahya Sinwar.
Hamas' military leader hasn't been seen in public since the start of the war, hiding somewhere in the bombarded enclave.
But Sinwar may believe he has the upper hand. We have the Israelis right where we want them, Sinwar said in recent messages to Hamas officials,
viewed by "The Wall Street Journal." Sinwar's leaked messages, which CNN hasn't seen and cannot independently verify, shed light into his mindset
during eight months of brutal war.
According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza, more than 37,000 Palestinians have been killed in Israel's assault on the territory. In one
message to Hamas leaders in Doha, Sinwar wrote, these are necessary sacrifices. The Israeli military responded on social media saying, Sinwar
profits off the deaths of Gazan civilians. Hamas leaders don't care about Gazans. How many times do they have to say it for themselves before the
world believes them?
Secretary of State Antony Blinken in the region to push a ceasefire proposal, aimed his message directly at Sinwar.
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: While the people that he purports to represent continue to suffer in a crossfire of his own making or will he
do what's necessary to actually move this to a better place to help in the suffering of people, to help bring real security to Israelis and
Palestinians alike.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Sinwar spent more than two decades in Israeli prisons, convicted for playing a role in the murder of two Israeli soldiers
and four Palestinians suspected of working with Israel. He was released in the 2011 hostage deal for Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit and rose to the top
of Hamas. Israeli journalist Shlomi Eldar says Sinwar's ascent was marked by his brutality.
SHLOMI ELDAR, ISRAELI JOURNALIST: This is Sinwar. Life and death for him is nothing. As many Palestinians were killed by the IDF, the more pressure
from the International Community.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): believed to be the mastermind of the October 7th attack, messages suggest even Sinwar was surprised by its atrocities.
Things went out of control, he wrote early on. But Sinwar soon doubled down on the war. In a message to Hamas' political leaders in December, he said,
we have the capabilities to continue fighting for months.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIEBERMANN (on camera): The U.S. intelligence officials believe that Hamas, and specifically Yahya Sinwar, believe they have the upper hand
here. That according to officials who have seen the intelligence, that after eight months of war, the pressure isn't on Hamas to make essentially
concessions and negotiations and agree to a ceasefire. The pressure is on Israel, and that's because of not only the international condemnation
Israel has received for the war in Gaza and the number of Palestinians killed, but also the pressure directly from the United States, which has
called for more humanitarian aid, more precise strikes. President Joe Biden even threatened to withhold certain weapons if Israel conducted a full-
scale ground incursion of Rafah.
So that all has led to international pressure that Israel feels. Pressure that, at least from Hamas' perspective, according to this intelligence,
Hamas isn't feeling and Yahya Sinwar isn't feeling. It leaves him sitting as if he's in a position of power and has an advantage in the negotiations,
and that's the challenge here for negotiators to try to make progress.
[18:15:00]
Blinken is still in the region. He will meet with the Qataris in the coming days. They are, of course, a crucial role in all of this, able to talk to
both the U.S. and the west, Israel, and Hamas. The question is, can anybody exert any sort of pressure on Sinwar? And that's very difficult to answer
at this moment because as we've seen, not only from "The Wall Street Journal's" -- the messages that they have seen, but also simply from Hamas'
willingness to wait 12 days for a response to try to change the proposal on the table. It's not clear that they're rushing to a ceasefire agreement.
CHATTERLEY: Necessary sacrifices. That was reportedly how the Gazan people were described by Sinwar in these messages, necessary sacrifices. Oren
Liebermann, thank you for that report.
All right. Turning now to China, where a suspect has been arrested for allegedly stabbing four U.S. instructors in a public park. A Chinese
tourist tried to intervene but was then also attacked. All five, though, survived with non-life-threatening injuries.
The attack took place in Northeastern China and the U.S. ambassador to China is saying he's "angered and deeply troubled by the incident." Marc
Stewart has more details,
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, this is the park where the attack happened on Monday. But right up until Tuesday night, many people here
hadn't even heard about it at all that's because the government censored all reporting of it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART (voice-over): Four college educators from America lie on the ground covered in blood in a popular park on a public holiday in Jilin City
in Northeastern China. All conscious, able to use their phones to say they've just been stabbed by an attacker with a knife. A fifth person, a
Chinese tourist, was injured while trying to protect them, police said.
One man is in custody. Police say he lashed out with the knife after colliding with a foreigner. The three American citizens and one permanent
resident of Iowa are from the state's Cornell College in China on a teaching program. One of those hurt, David Zabner. His brother, Iowa State
Representative Adam Zabner, said David was doing well.
His three unnamed colleagues and the Chinese tourists were also receiving medical care, according to the Chinese government. CNN's Steven Jiang asked
about the delay in the government to acknowledge the attack, not getting a direct response.
LIN JIAN, SPOKESPERSON, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY (through translator): All of the injured was sent to the hospital immediately and received proper
treatment. None of their lives were in danger.
STEWART (voice-over): China is a powerful security state. Its authority is constantly working to keep a lid on crime. Guns are tightly controlled. So,
when a mass casualty incident does happen, it's almost always a knife attack.
In May, a man wielding a knife killed two and injured 21 at a hospital in China's southwest. Stabbing attacks at kindergartens in 2023 and 2022 left
nine dead. Monday's attack may have been sudden, violent, and chaotic, but could this incident have a lasting impact on the already strained
relationship between the U.S. and China?
JIAN (through translator): Carrying out people to people and cultural exchanges between China and the United States is in the common interests of
both sides and has received active support and response from all walks of life in both countries.
STEWART (voice-over): Chinese President Xi Jinping himself has a personal attachment to Iowa, having first visited the state as a young official in
1985. During his most recent trip to the U.S. late last year, Xi invited 50,000 U.S. students to his country to help grow academic and cultural
ties. And that may be damaged by this one violent attack on a summer day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART (on camera): China has relatively low rates of violent crime. Julia, we have seen families here, we have seen retirees here. These
Americans likely felt safe before this horrible stabbing happened.
CHATTERLEY: Our thanks to Mark Stewart there. OK. We're going to take a break here on "First Move." But coming up, your up-to-the-minute weather
forecast as always.
Plus, Elon Musk's beef with OpenAI and its CEO Sam Altman taking a dramatic new turn. Call it perhaps a now, moot A.I. suit. All that and much more
after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And a triumphant Tech Tuesday tops our "Money Move." A mixed session overall, but fresh records again for
the S&P and for the NASDAQ. A bit of profit taking perhaps ahead of Wednesday's important U.S. consumer inflation report and Fed policy
statement. Tuesday's triumphs, however, include Apple, which soared 7 percent to record highs one day after it unveiled new A.I. features for its
devices. Apple once again overtaking NVIDIA as the second most valuable company on Wall Street by market cap.
Although, it was another day of weakness for European stocks, with the French CAC, Caron (ph), falling more than 1 percent for a second straight
second session. And French bond yields were on the rise too. It's just led by uncertainty over the upcoming legislative elections that could force
President Macron to share power with an opposing party like the hard right National Rally.
And in other business news, glee in the halls of ChatGPT. Well, lawyers for Elon Musk have moved to dismiss his lawsuit against OpenAI and the
company's CEO, Sam Altman. The sudden announcement could end their months long legal battle. The news also comes just one day after Musk blasted
OpenAI's new partnership with Apple.
Clare Duffy joins us now. Hold on a second, we'll set that argument aside. Why drop the case at this moment? Does it have anything to do with leaked
e-mails from OpenAI's side?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Julia, we don't know exactly why there was no explanation in this filing as to why they decided to drop the
suit at this point. This decision does come just one day before a planned hearing where they were going to discuss OpenAI's motion to dismiss this
lawsuit.
But you are correct that a few months ago, OpenAI released some e-mails from Elon Musk in the early days of the startup that were sort of
embarrassing for him and sort of contradicted some of the claims he was making in this lawsuit.
If we take just a step back, Elon Musk was involved in founding OpenAI in 2015, but in 2018, he left the startup after an apparently failed attempt
to get the other co-founders to agree to let Tesla take over OpenAI. Open A.I. had used that as sort of pushback in its response to this lawsuit. It
claims that Elon Musk was essentially just jealous that he was no longer involved in this now very successful startup.
Elon Musk had claimed that OpenAI was breaching its founding agreement to become -- to be a nonprofit and be for the benefit of humanity. He claims
that they were sort of abandoning that when they decided to commercialize their products, and in particular form this multi-billion-dollar
partnership with Microsoft. But now, this is apparently all come to an end, at least in court.
But we do have Elon Musk's negative comments about OpenAI, its partnership with Apple, yesterday. So, we may continue to see some of this tension, but
no longer, apparently, in the courtroom.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And those messages suggested he recognized, at least in the beginning, that you have to make money to grow as a business. So, those
two things perhaps are jarring. I can still see both sides of this, I think.
But anyway, on to new battles, Clare, very quickly. And this debate between the need for OpenAI and data in order to train their models. And of course,
Apple having lots of data. We as consumers, and if you're in the Apple ecosystem, you kind of want to know what's happening with your data and who
it's being given to.
[18:25:00]
DUFFY: It's true. And especially for Apple, this is really important, because this is a company that has built its brand around privacy and
security. But the company did say yesterday that most of the A.I. sort of capabilities will happen on Apple devices. It said that that data, well, in
most cases not leave your iPhone, it will not be used to train Apple models or be stored by Apple. And that customers who opt in, it will have to be an
opt in to send their queries to ChatGPT, those queries will not be stored by OpenAI.
Apple also did leave the door open to potentially incorporating other A.I. models from other third-parties. And so, you have to imagine that if things
don't go well with OpenAI, if they don't, you know, sort of stay true to this agreement not to be storing users queries from Apple, Apple will go
and, you know, invite Google or one of these other third-parties that are all grappling to have the biggest A.I. models and replace OpenAI. This is
not an exclusive agreement on Apple's part.
CHATTERLEY: No, certainly not. Clare Duffy, thank you so much for that.
Now, storms over some tech relationships and you can see that in the weather too. South Florida could see as much as a month's worth of rain in
just a few days. Meanwhile, China and the Western U.S. continue to cook under their respective heat waves. More on this, we're joined by Allison
Chinchar. Allison, give us the worst.
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. So, it looks like it's been pretty soggy for much of the day to day across Florida. You can see here on
the radar, a lot of incredibly heavy rain and a lot of thunder and lightning as well with a lot of these storms and not much is going to
change in the forecast. This front pretty much stalling. Meaning, all of these areas are just going to continue to see rain after rain shower day
after day.
Now, that low pressure system, once it gets over back into the Atlantic, that way it may take a little bit of a turn. It has about a 20 percent
chance of becoming a tropical cyclone in the next seven days. If it does and ends up making it into tropical storm status, it could be the first
name storm of the Atlantic hurricane season, which would be the name Alberto.
Regardless of whether it gets a name or not, it is expected to bring flooding potential, not just on Wednesday or Thursday, but all the way
through the end of the work week, just because of the sheer amount of rain that is expected. You can see widespread rainfall totals here about four to
six inches, which is about 100 to 150 millimeters. But some of these areas could exceed 200 millimeters of rain, when it's all said and done several
days from now.
Another big story we've been following, yes, is the heat across China. And you can see here over the gradual trend, well, not really much is changing
with the trend. We still anticipate a lot of these areas to continue to see those temperatures being well above normal for this time of year. Take
Beijing, for example, the average high this time of year. right around that 30-degree mark. However, notice every single one of the next seven days,
that temperature remains well above that. In some cases, five to even seven degrees above where they normally would be this time of year.
Now, the cooler areas are going to be a little bit farther down to the south where you do see a lot of those rain showers. The plum rains kind of
sticking there. But until we see that movement to a bit farther north, which isn't really expected for several more weeks, that's why we can still
expect to see some of those temperatures remaining a well on the above normal side for at least the next several days.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, just imagining the humidity there as well. Wow. Allison Chinchar, thank you so much for that report.
All right. Coming up here on "First Move," we've had a few consequential weeks of convictions involving a former U.S. president and now, the current
president's son. The question is, does any of this really matter to American voters in an election year? We'll discuss, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" with a look at more of the international headlines this hour. Malawi will observe a three-week
mourning period after the country's vice president and other officials were killed in a plane crash. Malawi's president said the plane's wreckage was
found in a forest after the aircraft went missing on Monday. Poor visibility and bad weather may have contributed to the crash.
Police in the State of Georgia say four people are alert and conscious after being shot at a food court in Downtown Atlanta. Authorities say one
of them is a possible suspect. The building was placed on lockdown and a motive for the shooting is unclear for now.
Animal rights activists in London have vandalized the first official portrait of King Charles. The group, Animal Rising, posted this video on
social media. It shows activists using paint rollers to replace the king's face with that of Wallace from the animated series "Wallace and Gromit."
The speech bubble refers to recent allegations of cruelty on British farms that have the royal seal of approval for animal protection.
And returning to our top story once more, the guilty verdict for Hunter Biden. It comes less than two weeks after the historic conviction of Former
President Donald Trump in his hush money trial in New York. Now, a new poll by CBS conducted after Trump's trial shows there's no clear leader with
Trump and President Biden neck and neck among likely voters.
So, what does the president's son conviction mean for the race for the White House, if anything? Senior Political Analyst Ron Brownstein joins us
now. Ron, good to have you with us. Do Americans care about this conviction?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. No, look, I think enough Americans have painful stories of addiction in their own families to
understand the -- you know, the pain and the trauma of the family going through this, and I can't imagine this has really -- there are actual
voters who would say, I was going to vote for Joe Biden, but now I'm not because his son was convicted of a crime flowing out of his addiction.
If anything, it allows Biden to contrast his response, which has been pretty temperate compared to Trump, you know, very loudly claiming that the
entire process has been rigged against him. But overall, I would say this is not something that is going to move the needle, not only materially, but
at all in our presidential race.
CHATTERLEY: I guess you could also argue you vote for president and not his family, to your point about the -- perhaps care that the president has
shown to his son in this case. Do the Republicans face a potential backlash if they try to use it, to your point about, I think the great sympathy of
people out there about the challenges, the burden of addiction?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. No. Yes, I think they do. You know, for the Trump base, kind of anything that wounds Biden or any Democrat you know, is fodder, is
kind of chum in the water. So, in that sense, you know, there would be, you know, some incentive for Republicans to do that. But I do think the vast
majority of Americans know enough -- have enough personal experience with addiction.
You know, it is a broad problem in our society at this point. And if anything, it allows, I think, Biden to appear more empathetic and as
someone who can relate to the struggles that many families are going through in America, particularly, ironically, in Trump country.
[18:35:00]
CHATTERLEY: It's been a consequential few weeks of convictions. As I mentioned in the introduction, we had obviously Former President Trump
convicted as well, of course, in New York. Since he was convicted, and I mentioned that poll in the introduction for a reason, what we've seen, at
least in that poll was a slippage of around two to three points. So, you now see President Biden, Former President Trump, literally neck and neck.
Do you think that has something to do with the guilty verdict or perhaps less to do with the guilty verdict and the way that the former president
continues to talk about it and this sense of revenge, which, quite frankly, doesn't matter, surely to the American public and their futures?
BROWNSTEIN: That's a really interesting question. I mean, it's hard to know how much of the impact has been the verdict and how much has been
Trump's reaction to the verdict? I mean, as I've said to you before, there really are two big blocks of voters that are movable in this election.
Overall, there isn't really anything that can dramatically reshape a race like this because we are so dug in as a country and there's -- you know, it
really is trench warfare for either side to gain a slight advantage. But the two groups that are the most movable tend to be white collar, slightly
right of center economic conservatives, kind of the Nikki Haley suburban voters. And then much more blue collar, younger black and Latino voters,
especially men who are heavily discontented about the economy and Biden's performance.
Those voters are -- that latter group are unlikely to be moved much by Trump's conviction or the prospect of electing a convicted felon as -- you
know, as president. They are more likely to be concerned about whether -- which candidate has a better -- they see is more likely to improve their
lives. But for that first group, for that kind of Haley white collar, suburban, traditionally Republican, leaning constituency that finds Trump
unacceptable on many grounds, the prospect of electing a convicted felon, I think, does weigh on them, and it does help explain why Biden is running so
much better than his approval rating among those voters.
Having said that, there is a limit to how far any president can run beyond his approval rating, and no matter how objectionable he tries to make his
alternative, look at Jimmy Carter in 1980 with Ronald Reagan or H. W. Bush in '92 with Clinton, ultimately disqualifying -- the opponent was not
enough. Biden, like them, has to try to improve perceptions of his own performance if he is going to hold off Trump.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Focus on yourselves and not on attacking each other and what you can do for the country.
BROWNSTEIN: Position --
CHATTERLEY: This is very simple advice. I know.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: OK. We have about a minute left. One sentence advice to the former president here and one sentence of advice for the current president
here on how to run the campaign from here.
BROWNSTEIN: For the former president, it's, you know, people aren't happy with the status quo, just say you're going to return things on the economy
to where they were when you were president, and not frighten people as much as he is doing, with good reason about what he might do if re-elected. For
Biden, I think he has to get some of those younger voters to focus more on what a Trump presidency would mean. But overall, his task really is to
convince skeptical voters that he really has the mental and physical capacity to continue doing this job not only for another six months, but
for another four years.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, quit the revenge chat, seems like the easier option. And yet, President -- Former President Trump is seemingly suffering in the
polls. Ron Brownstein, good to have you with us, sir. We'll talk to you again soon.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.
CHATTERLEY: No doubt. Thank you. All right. Still ahead, we've all heard of e-cars, e-taxis and e-airplanes. But what if we could keep what we have
and just run it on cleaner fuels? Well, that's the decarbonizing vision of Infinium CEO and investors like Bill Gates think they're onto something.
Our conversation, next
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
CHATTERLEY: Planes, trains, and automobiles, a great movie, but transport does account for one fifth of global CO2 commissions, and hence the focus
on things like electric vehicles, which don't burn fossil fuels.
But what if there was a cleaner fuel alternative? Well, a startup company called Infinium has spent a decade working on what it calls electrofuels,
liquid fuels that significantly reduce harmful greenhouse emissions. Now, the process involves using carbon dioxide waste and green hydrogen derived
from renewable power to create the climate friendly products.
Infinium has also just opened up the world's first commercial scale e-fuel manufacturing plant in the U.S. State of Texas. Now, e-fuels can be
distributed by existing pipelines, and they can also be used as fuel alternatives for chemicals and plastic production. Infinium has already
struck partnerships with big name firms like Amazon and Mitsubishi, and Microsoft founder Bill Gates has provided $75 million worth of funding.
For more, Robert Schuetzle joins us now, and he's the founder and CEO of Infinium. Robert, I hope we've left you something to say with that
introduction. Welcome to the show. Tell me what makes your e-fuel unique compared to some of your competitors and ultimately scalable, too, because
that's what we need.
ROBERT SCHUETZLE, FOUNDER AND CEO, INFINIUM: Great. Well, thank you for having me. So, 25 percent of global CO2 emissions come from heavy
transportation. So, planes, ships, trucks, things that move commerce around the world. And most of those vehicles today run on liquid fuels. So, what
Infinium does is produce ultra-low carbon fuels from waste CO2 that would otherwise be emitted to the atmosphere, water and renewable power like wind
and solar.
But the fuels that we produce are identical to the fuels that are produced today from oil. So, it allows our customers like Amazon, like American
Airlines to immediately decarbonize, but keep their existing infrastructure.
We do have unique technology that we believe can get to scale. We operate the world's first commercial scale e-fuels facility in Corpus Christi,
Texas, and are pushing to get more volumes into the hands of our customers.
CHATTERLEY: I think what grabbed me when I first started reading about this was what you just said there, which in the past, I think when we've
talked about e-fuels, you need to use a blend with existing fossil fuels in order for them to be utilized. But what you're saying is this is
effectively an equivalent and no systems need to be adjusted in order to be able to take it. You can literally do a one for one swap. Is that correct?
SCHUETZLE: That's correct. One of the challenges with, let's say, alternative specifications is that new engine technologies might be needed.
Certainly, battery electric on aircraft is a challenging technical challenge. But what we enable is our customers to keep their existing
infrastructure, their planes, their ships, their trucks, but to decarbonize by using e-fuels immediately with the same physical specifications that
they use today.
CHATTERLEY: The biggest question mark I think over this today, and you can hopefully tell me how you bring this down, is cost and the sheer cost
relative to fossil fuels today, and that's not quantifying the cost of the planet admittedly. But at this moment determined by what you can produce,
what's the cost difference for a fuel of the -- tank of this, let's say for a car versus fossil fuels today, petrol?
[18:45:00]
SCHUETZLE: Now, it's a great question and a big challenge because cost parity is the objective for Infinium and for the e-fuels industry. Today,
we are reasonably more expensive than fossil fuels. It depends on the location of the plant, the cost of our feedstocks like CO2 and renewable
power, but we are more expensive. So, that means that our customers may have to pick up a premium or we sell into incentive markets.
Here in the United States, the Inflation Reduction Act does provide benefit to subsidize the production cost of these fuels. And in certain
geographies, there are utilization credits, the E.U. the U.K. do have mandates for these types of fuels that provide some incentives.
So, you factor in the incentives, there is a pathway to parity. But ultimately, without incentives, we do need to get those costs down and that
comes with scale, getting to larger scale and lower cost of the input, such as renewable power as well as some of the enabling technologies.
But we do see in the mid- to long-term that e-fuels can be competitive with oil derived fuels without any incentive.
CHATTERLEY: How long does that parity take, Robert? Just based on the incentives that you have today, nothing more, how long does it take?
Because it sounds like leaders have to get with the program if they really want to clean up the transport sector.
SCHUETZLE: Absolutely. I mean, we have early customers like Amazon, American Airlines. City did a deal with American Airlines to buy scope
three emissions that are helping to get these fuels into the marketplace. But again, our goal is to get to cost parity. We see the next five to 10
years, those costs coming down dramatically.
As cost of enabling technologies, we use electrolysers that produce green hydrogen. Costs are coming down on that kit. We see renewable power prices
coming down. So, it will take up to a decade to get those costs down to reasonably close to parity with oil derived fuels, but we do see a vision
where that happens.
CHATTERLEY: I want to talk to you about the IEA, because I was looking at what they're saying about a number of these different things. E-kerosene
was one that they talked about being four times more expensive than fossil fuel equivalents when it's made from biogenic carbon emissions, water and
renewable energy. So, not quite the same, but we're in the same track.
They also pointed out that an estimated 200 e-fuel projects have been announced in the world, but just 5 percent of them are actually funded with
investment. I can understand that gap when we're talking about perhaps a decade and still needing incentives from governments to get prices down or
at least some form of equivalence.
Robert, what more does it take? And how did you manage to convince the likes of Mitsubishi and Bill Gates and Amazon, to your point, to get on
board with this? Because you do need more investment, surely?
SCHUETZLE: Absolutely. We've been talking about e-fuels or power to liquids for a long time. But I will say we really haven't seen the
awareness grow since a period starting about two, maybe three years ago. And with that acceleration, we see interest from capital, and we were able
to secure early investment from a number of investors that were willing to put risk capital behind the world's first e-fuels facility that is now
operating in Corpus Christi, Texas. We took final investment decision on that well before the IRA passed or the subsidies existed.
And now, we're working on the world's second e-fuels facility, a plant that is 10 times larger. We call it Project Road Runner, also in Texas, that is
backed by Bill Gates Breakthrough Energy Catalyst group. So, there's really the vision of some of these investors to decarbonize and their willingness
to take early risk to play into a market that today is more expensive, but they see the potential for those costs coming down over time while allowing
customers to decarbonize.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Let's hope the next two to three years have a greater acceleration and interest than we've seen even in the previous two. Keep in
touch, because we'll talk about progress. And, Robert, great to chat to you. Thank you. The founder and CEO of Infinium there.
All right. Coming up next, the mystery of the North Korean football star who went missing three years ago, only to make a dramatic return. We'll
take a look at what's happening, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" Sports Move. North Korea have beaten Myanmar four to one in an Asian qualifiers for the 2026 World Cup.
And now, move into the next round. Among those on the pitch was Han Kwang- song, who made his headlines a while back after vanishing without explanation. Hanako Montgomery has more on his disappearance, and most
importantly, his remarkable return.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vanished North Korean soccer superstar, missing no more. Han Kwang-song, the young striker from
Pyongyang who played for Italian giant Juventus, against some of Europe's elite clubs.
He disappeared for more than three years after U.N. sanctions ordered North Korean workers abroad to head home, playing for North Korea against Syria,
Myanmar, and Japan, finally taking to the field again during the recent World Cup qualifiers. But the mystery surrounding his absence remains.
An Yong-hak, a Japanese born North Korean former soccer player who knows and met Han, tells me the striker has extraordinary talent. The two first
met in 2019, when Han said he watched An play for the country. A pandemic later, they briefly met again in Tokyo, just this last March. An encouraged
Han to help the team reach the World Cup. An says he was told by a North Korean official that Han was stuck at a North Korean embassy in China when
the country shut its borders during the pandemic.
AN YONG-HAK, FORMER NORTH KOREAN SOCCER PLAYER (through translator): Han had to train alone for about two to three years. Last September, I think
they let him into the country.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): An is worried the time away from the pitch severely affected the budding star's career.
YONG-HAK (through translator): I feel like he lost out on the chance to grow more at the right age and time when he could have really developed. I
think he could have played better, even during national team matches. It's really regrettable.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): In North Korea sports are a popular pastime and a tool for social control, discipline. Soccer in particular is a fan favorite
and draws in thousands of spectators under the watchful eyes of sports enthusiast and leader Kim Jong Un.
The Kim regime is looking to elevate North Korea into a sports powerhouse, echoing its 2010 World Cup qualification, only the second time it has done
so. A moment An remembers with pride, saying players were recognized with a certificate and apartments in Pyongyang. But the country suffered bruising
defeats on the actual World Cup stage, and rumors quickly ensued of the national team facing punishment from the regime, including public shaming,
a narrative An strongly denies.
YONG-HAK (through translator): It's pretty hard to get information about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. So, there are still stories
about people being sent to the coal mine after losing a match or being lectured for six hours. But there are no such stories at all, as far as I
know. I was on the national team for more than 10 years, and that never happened to me.
MONTGOMERY (voice-over): An holds high hopes for his countrymen's return to the global stage.
YONG-HAK (through translator): Han can't get back the time he lost. So, going forward, I hope he becomes a great player who will improve the image
of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea's national team.
MONTGOMERY: With little getting in or out of North Korea, it's hard to know what the future holds for Han. But his country's attempt to play in
the World Cup continues.
Hanako Montgomery, CNN, Tokyo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[18:55:00]
CHATTERLEY: And finally, on "First Move," if you thought the Apple Watch is useful merely for helping humans tell the time, count steps, and monitor
vital signs, then a ferocious but extremely appreciative feline would like to have a quick word.
Take a look at this. What you're looking at is an Apple Watch attached to the very large tongue of an even larger lion. Yes, he is sedated. And if
you listen, you can actually hear him snoring in the background. Yes. A wildlife veterinarian is using the watch to measure the creature's heart
rate, describing the procedure as a highly unconventional off label use for the device.
Now, if you think that represents the main event of our story, then you can think again. Because as you can see here, the Apple Watch can also be
attached to sedated elephants, for example, to measure their vital signs too. An experience that this massive beast will surely never forget once he
finally wakes up.
Now, all this begs the question, if you can use this on lions and elephants, what about our pampered pets? I will attempt to put an Apple
watch on Romeo very soon and we'll report back to you. But I can tell you, actually, he loves to chew the strap or the watch band. You can see him
eyeing one up here.
And that just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you tomorrow.
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[19:00:00]
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