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Inside Politics

Inside Elon Musk's Deepening Influence On Trump's Transition; Dem Senator On Trump's Nominees: "Nothing But Trolling"; Lara Trump Signals Interest In Florida Senate Seat If It Opens; New Film Explores Sen. Joe Lieberman's Commitment To Bipartisanship. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 14, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:32:35]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Now to Donald Trump's new billionaire bestie, since the election, Elon Musk has spent almost every day with the president-elect. He's been on the phone with world leaders, weighed in on critical cabinet choices at Mar-a-Lago, even joined Trump's trip here to Washington yesterday.

Ronan Farrow of The New Yorker joins me now. Thank you for being here. You've done extensive reporting on Elon Musk. You wrote about his brazen and expansive influence on the U.S. that was before he became attached at the hip at the president.

Ronan, during the break, you and I were talking about the kind of unprecedented nature of this very wealthy private citizen having so much influence. We were sitting here at the table trying to think if there's anything that even comes close, like a Rockefeller or JPMorgan or Luce. I don't think so. Do you?

RONAN FARROW, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, THE NEW YORKER: Well, in the course of my reporting, I talked to historians because I had the same question and I looked at all of those examples and I talked in that article that you just showed about some of the precedents that maybe could fit the mold.

But the key point here, Dana, is I talked to a historian after a historian who said, no, there's really nothing that comes so close. Because when we look at Elon Musk's government contracts and they have continued to proliferate over the past 10 years, we're talking about nearly 100 contracts, 17 agencies that he works with, on the order of 15 billion plus in the value of these contracts.

The officials who run those relationships are often cowed by Musk. And these are also incredibly national security sensitive areas of the government's operations. These are areas of key infrastructure, everything from the war in Ukraine, where his satellite access became really, really strategically important. And where DOD officials were telling me we can't control what he's doing in terms of giving or taking away that access that Ukrainian forces had, to domestic issues. We saw recently that he was part of hurricane relief and providing internet access in areas affected by that. And he felt very free and brazen to criticize government agencies involved in that hurricane relief response. So they really have a bull in a China shop in this relationship, and they don't have competitors to turn to in a lot of cases.

All of that, historians told me, is a whole new level of private influence. And that's, as you point out, before the recent developments, where now he is more and more enmeshed in a new administration.

[12:35:02]

BASH: So enmeshed. And that's kind of the unofficial relationship that he has. And then of course, there's the fact that Trump announced that he and Vivek Ramaswamy would be tasked with finding wide-ranging cuts to federal agencies. I wonder how that is going to kind of run up against what you just talked about, the billions of dollars in U.S. government contracts that he has.

FARROW: Well, this is the thing. Billions of dollars of contracts. And then also, this is an individual, and these are companies that are under extensive investigation by U.S. law enforcement organs, everything from the National Highway Transportation Safety Agency to the Department of Justice.

There's a major investigation that's been ongoing into whether Musk was fraudulent, his companies were fraudulent in their representations of their self-driving technology, and there were deaths that resulted from that technology in some cases.

This is not to, you know, demonize in a simplistic way. These are new technologies. There's always complicated regulatory issues around those. But these are particularly important technologies with life or death stakes. And the representations his companies make are really sensitive.

And he's now positioning himself to have potential oversight of the agencies that are investigating him. So that's also a brand new phenomenon. That would be an unprecedented level of conflict of interest. And I think for all of us in the press who care about creating accountability in these relationships for the American people, we're going to have our work cut out for us.

BASH: Well, talk a bit about that, because I know accountability and, you know, what he calls freedom of the press, which, you know, when you actually look at what has happened to a place like a platform like X, formerly Twitter, and the way that he clearly has sort of messed with the algorithms there, how does what he claims that he wants comport with what we have seen that has happened based on his influence?

FARROW: Well, it's completely opposite to the ideologies he's supposedly espoused all the way along when he talked about restoring a balance of free speech on this platform. Over and over again, we see analyses that are credible. This is not just anecdotable, showing that there's a real rise in not just all speech and radical speech on all sides, but a particular brand of right-wing extremism and misinformation on this site.

And the warning signs were all there. This story that you mentioned that I worked on when I profiled Musk also got into his apparent personal turn towards right-wing radicalism. And, yes, there's a number of things in his personal life.

He's talked a lot about his relationship with a trans daughter that he has as an origin point to that. But it all lines up in this very convenient way where a figure who had a lot of power, who was facing scrutiny from what he now decries as a liberal element in the government and in the public square, has been able to take control of really all of that.

He found a way to inject himself into controlling the discourse that is quite unprecedented to return to that word. I think it's really merited here. And he found a way to exercise what looks very much at this point, like it might be actual control of a sort in his ability to cut the budgets of agencies that would otherwise be not just managing his relationships with the government, but investigating him.

BASH: Yes. I mean, we were talking about checks and balances and total control by the Republican Party here in Washington. That doesn't even begin to touch some of the things that you're talking about. So important with regard to how much power he clearly has.

Ronan, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

FARROW: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: Up next, the family business. President Trump will soon be back in the White House. Will another Trump be joining him in Washington as Senator Trump? Stay with us.

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[12:43:42]

BASH: Outrage is emanating from some corners of Capitol Hill as Democrats quickly condemn President-elect Trump's picks for some in his cabinet. But Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman is not one of them.

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SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D), PENNSYLVANIA: It's just kind of like a God tier kind of trolling just to trigger a meltdown. Certainly, there's some that both sides aren't going to vote for, like the ones that happened tonight. But I'm not going to freak out like, oh, my God.

I mean, it's like that's really what -- that's what he wants, you know? I'm sure he enjoys that kind of a trolling. And no one takes that seriously both sides.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Panel is back here. Yes, I think there's some trolling here, but I also think that we need to understand that the people Donald Trump nominated are the people he really wants. And so the question that you have been reporting on is the Republicans who now run the Senate, who to watch for --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

BASH: -- as people who might not be lockstep with him. And there's a list that I won't read in total, but you can see the names, believe we can put them on the screen. There you go. What are you watching for with those senators?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm actually watching a group of Republican women in the Senate, people like Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins. Joni Ernst, when I asked her yesterday about Matt Gaetz said he's going to have to work really hard to get confirmed.

[12:45:06]

And I wasn't sure if she heard the question, so I asked her again when she came back out and she repeated it once again. I think that there's a really interesting dynamic that could start to exist in the Senate, where some of these women senators who are very close personally with one another, start to kind of be more outspoken.

I also am going to watch someone like Thom Tillis from a swing state in North Carolina --

BASH: Who's up for re-election, though.

FOX: Yes, exactly.

BASH: The question is whether or not he runs again.

FOX: Totally.

RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW: And everybody who just got re-elected, their terms end after the Trump presidency. They have a certain amount of leeway to make their own decisions.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: To your point, Dana, I thought it was interesting that Senator Murkowski said she didn't think that it was a serious nomination, that Gaetz wasn't serious. That it wasn't serious from Trump. But it is to your point. I mean, he wants this.

And, you know, it also -- one source close to the transition, Trump's transition said that this could also serve as a litmus test for Senate Republicans --

BASH: Absolutely.

BARRON-LOPEZ: -- to see who exactly is going to stay in lockstep with Trump, who is not going to stay in lockstep with Trump, and what that could ultimately mean for who Donald Trump targets.

BASH: No question. I have heard that they are -- they in Trump world, Donald Trump himself, they are viewing how senators act and react to these picks as a loyalty test for him. Somebody who could be a United States senator who he would have no question when it comes to loyalty is Lara Trump, because there is going to be an open Senate seat in Florida, assuming Marco Rubio gets confirmed as Secretary of State.

Listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

LARA TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP'S DAUGHTER-IN-LAW: If I am able to serve, I would love to serve the people of Florida. Truly to have that opportunity, I think would be incredible. No one knows better than I do. The America First Agenda or the goals of Donald Trump in the coming four years.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

FOX: The dynamic of a Republican Senate lunch with her in the room every single week, I think would be really interesting. He has loyalists in the room, but I just think it adds a new dynamic when you have a member of his family sitting, dining with you as you are having discussions about the policies he is putting forward, when they are having discussions about tax policy, the corporate tax rate.

BASH: Yes.

FOX: I mean, all of that is going to be a direct line back to Trump.

BASH: Would Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, pick her? What do you think?

PONNURU: I think that is a very -- that will be very interesting to watch. You would think that he would want to maintain that pick for his own purposes, not just to do the bidding of Trump.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes, I mean, there were already questions about how much Republicans were going to be able to stay in lockstep with each other to deliver what Donald Trump wants. You add Lara Trump into the mix, and I think it could get that machine clogged up a little bit.

BASH: All right. Whatever you're doing up there, thank you. All of you.

Up next, a badly needed lesson from the past for a nation more divided than ever.

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[12:52:22]

BASH: In a Washington as divided as ever, it might be time to look to the not so distant past for an example of true bipartisanship. A legacy definitely worth remembering, the late Senator Joe Lieberman. (BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JOE LIEBERMAN, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Throughout my career, I have been persistently, stubbornly bipartisan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was about how do we address the issue and help the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is not a cookie cutter Democrat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was strong in defense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The civilized world has often had to meet force with force.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More liberal on social issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I welcome the president's support of a new Clean Air Act.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was ahead of the curve on the environment on gun control.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here because country matters more than party.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: That was a clip from the new documentary "Centered." And I'm joined now by Joe Lieberman's son, Matt Lieberman, who is committed to keeping his father's ideals alive. It's so good to see you.

MATT LIEBERMAN, PUBLISHER, THE LIEBERMAN FILES: It is great to see you. Thanks.

BASH: And we really miss your dad. And this documentary is definitely going to be one to watch. What is, I mean, I think we got a taste of it, but the biggest takeaway people should glean from that?

LIEBERMAN: Well, that there is now and there always has been another way to do business in politics in Washington that is more attuned to your conscience, your principles and that's more open to the possibility, that the people across the aisle even though they don't always seem like it may actually share an overwhelming number of your values and want to accomplish a lot of the same things.

And the only reason you're here in Washington is to do that for the people who sent you. And that was his whole focus. And he was willing to bridge whatever gap needed to be bridged to accomplish that.

BASH: And for people who might not totally remember, of course, your dad was a Democratic senator from Connecticut, became Al Gore's running mate in the 2000 campaign. Then he became an independent. And ultimately went on in 2008 to support his best friend, John McCain, for the Republican nomination for president.

And he often lamented what you were just talking about, the severe partisanship here in Washington was not a fan of Donald Trump. I'm sure he would not be thrilled with his return here, but he was trying with the group No Labels before he passed away to find that third way. It's really hard.

LIEBERMAN: It is really hard. And of course, No Labels failed to generate a candidate, much to the glee of many in the Republican and especially Democratic parties.

[12:55:09]

It is difficult, and it really does require a different kind of mindset. One of the amazing things to me, my dad, for anyone who knew him, was as kind and decent, warm hearted a person as you could find, and yet he engendered such intense, often negative feelings from people in the political world just because as kind and warm hearted as he was, once he dug in, he was dug in.

BASH: Yes.

LIEBERMAN: And one of the remarkable things about the film, "Centered," which is having its premiere in D.C. this week and then in December will be in regal cinemas around the country, you can check it out, is that you see him talking and reflecting back on these moments in his career that were really, in political terms, brutal. And yet he has a --

BASH: Yes.

LIEBERMAN: -- little smile. He's calm about it. He's not bitter.

BASH: That was him.

LIEBERMAN: That's him. And that's a lesson.

BASH: Yes. Well, again, we miss him. Thank you so much for being here. We look forward to seeing this documentary.

Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after the break.

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