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Inside Politics

Hamas and Israel Agree to Ceasefire-Hostage Deal. Aired 12:30- 1p ET

Aired January 15, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR OF 'INSIDE POLITICS': Barak, what are you hearing from your very deep bench of sources in the region?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Hi, Dana. Well, you know, we have a deal. The deal will be implemented within days. Tomorrow morning, local time, the Israeli cabinet will approve the deal. And I think that over the weekend, the ceasefire will come into effect and hopefully, by Sunday, the first three hostages will go out from Gaza, will be released and will return to their families.

BASH: Can you talk about what you know beyond the top lines which are important, 33, 34, hostages expected to be released in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Any more information about, let's just start with the hostages, who they will be aside from its humanitarian -- those who might need humanitarian aid and those who are civilians.

RAVID: So we have, in the first group of 33 hostages, they will be released over 42 days of ceasefire. The first group to come out will be women civilians, female civilians that were held in Gaza for more than 450 days in the tunnels. They will come out first. Afterwards, it'll be female soldiers, five female soldiers who were taking hostage, were in Hamas captivity, they'll be next. Then, a group of men over the age of 50. We do not know how many in this group are still alive. That's a big question mark.

Hamas still did not give a clear information on who's alive and who's not, but that's the next group. And afterwards, men under the age of 50 who are in bad medical condition, we also do not know who from this group is still alive. So I think there are still a lot of question marks.

What is interesting is that in this 33 hostages group, there are at least two American citizens. One American citizen is Keith Siegel who's above the age of 50. He's expected to be released something like two weeks from now. And we had a video from him several months ago, according to what I know, he's supposed to be alive.

The second American citizen is Sagui Dekel-Chen, who is a man under the age of 50, but he's in the group of hostages in bad medical condition. We have no information about the situation, whether he's alive or dead. I think we'll know in the next few days, but he's certainly on the list.

BASH: Yeah, I recently did an interview with Keith Siegel's wife who was held with him for a short time before she was among those who was released earlier on. Just staying on this, of course, we have been hearing about a lot of -- not a lot, but a few of the young American men, two of whom we now know are dead. One was murdered and that is Polin Goldberg. And then the other we learned was actually, Neutra was actually killed on October 7th which the Israeli government just didn't know until more recently.

Another is Edan Alexander, who is a young man who was serving in the IDF. I don't know that his parents or those of others, American or not, serve in the IDF of the male gender are expected anytime soon. Is that accurate?

RAVID: Yes, that's accurate. We also have Itay Chen, who's also U.S. citizen. He was a soldier in the IDF, was killed on October 7th. His body is in Gaza. So I think that you are talking now about the second phase of this deal, and it's very important because 16 days into phase one, negotiations on phase two need to start.

BASH: Yes.

RAVID: And this phase two is highly important because you have at least four U.S. citizens that are in that phase. One of them is Alexander (ph), who we know is still alive because we just had this sign of life from him just two or three weeks ago.

BASH: And let's --

RAVID: So I think, it'll be highly important to see whether Donald Trump, when he's already president, presses the Israeli government and Hamas to continue on to phase two. That, at the end of phase two, all the hostages are out and the war is permanently over.

BASH: And let's now look at what's happening in Gaza. I believe we have pictures from Khan Younis with people who are gathering there, incredibly eager of course to hear if it is in fact going to happen, that a ceasefire, and the bombing of Gaza will stop at least for six weeks.

[12:35:00]

What is your understanding of what is happening inside the Israeli government with regard to what happens after these six weeks? I know it feels like I'm jumping ahead, but, and we heard Tony Blinken talk about this, and it's all, I think, pretty obvious. I don't think you need to talk to sources in the region to, or even at the White House to know this, that the hope is with these six weeks that the then Trump Administration with the help of other partners in the region will make this ceasefire permanent.

Will somehow find a way to get a, a government up and running with the help of Arab countries that have a lot of money and a lot of ability to make that happen. But they didn't even want to hear about it or talk about it until and unless the Israeli bombardment stopped. But that will also require a lot of negotiation from within the Netanyahu government. And so, I'm wondering from you, how likely that is going to be and how far they are likely to go?

RAVID: So first, Dana, we look at those pictures from Gaza. 2 million Palestinians went through hell in the last 14 months since October 7th because of this attack that Hamas initiated and more than 45,000 Palestinians were killed, the majority of which are civilians. And for them, this ceasefire is like fresh air. And I think this is why it's very important.

About the Israeli government, it's very interesting because at least part of Netanyahu's government, the radical right, the extreme right, two parties, they already announced that they will oppose the deal. The deal will pass in the cabinet tomorrow even if they vote against it. But what is interesting is whether they will stay in the government or leave. If they leave, this is a dramatic political development that could bring down Netanyahu's government.

If they do not leave now, there will be another challenge when the negotiations over phase two will start because Netanyahu has been hinting that those parties won't leave the government because we will go back to fighting after (inaudible). But it's not clear if he'll be able to go back to fighting -- he won't be able to go back to fighting because the U.S. will demand that this deal will continue to be implemented. Then at that moment, 42 days from now, he will be in a very, very, very difficult political situation with his government under the risk of collapsing.

BASH: Yeah. Well, especially if there is the pressure that we expect to come to bear from Donald Trump and his administration and as I mentioned, the regional partners in the Arab world, who will want to make this permanent and again, to make the living hell that you rightly referred to for so many civilians in Gaza, who have been living under the thumb of a terrorist group, Hamas, and despite all the war, that does not seem to have ended.

So, we're going to talk more about that in a bit. I now want to go to Ruby Chen, the father of Itay Chen, one of the Israeli-Americans who was killed on October 7th. Ruby, thank you so much for being here. We just heard Barak Ravid talking about your beautiful son who thought -- you thought for a bit was living as a hostage, but it turned out that he actually was murdered on October 7th. So, given what you saw --

RUBY CHEN, FATHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN KILLED ON OCTOBER 7TH: But he is still a hostage.

BASH: And he is still a hostage.

CHEN: That hasn't changed.

BASH: Exactly. So given that and the fact that I know you want to get his remains back, first of all, can you just describe how this moment feels?

CHEN: Well, we are grateful getting to this point. It's been stuck for a long time. It's been 467 days since this began. And we want to thank the Biden Administration as well as the incoming Trump Administration and their teams, especially Mr. Brett McGurk, NSC Coordinator for the Middle East, as well as Mr. Steve Witkoff, President Trump Special Envoy.

[12:40:13]

I actually was in Qatar myself last week, meeting both of them, and the commitment that they had shown to get us where we are today. But we all must remember that the job is not done. There are still, even after this first phase happens, five U.S. citizens that are still being held in Gaza, and we are urging the negotiators to speed up the process between phase one and phase two, that this ordeal will end not just for us, but also for the people in Gaza and have a sustainable ceasefire.

BASH: And Ruby, you were in Qatar. That's really interesting. So you had an involvement and a front-row seat to this, a really extraordinary partnership between the incoming Trump Administration and the outgoing Biden Administration to try to get this done. Can you talk about those discussions? And of course, the question is, as part of those discussions, as part of this deal, do you know if your son's body will be returned?

CHEN: Yeah. So the catalyst of deciding to go to Qatar was based on the fact that we felt, my family that the people negotiating, they see an Excel sheet, they see a list, they do not see the people. And it was important for me to get on a plane and meet with the Qatari officials of the Prime Minister Office, minister of state, as well as the NSA, as well as Mr. Brett McGurk, look them in the eye and tell them what the families want, and what the families -- the majority of the families want to see is an agreement that not only speaks about the first coming out, but actually how the last one comes out.

And making it personal I think was something that was helpful. And I, again, would like to commend Mr. Steve Witkoff, that when speaking to him when I was in Qatar, urged him to be physically in Qatar because the commitment and guarantees that the incoming president gave to the commitments of the United States, to get us to where we are -- I think everyone stepped up, including the Qataris, Egypt and everyone involved. But again, it is a bit (inaudible) for the first phase, my son is not on that list as well as five other U.S. citizens. And I think that the United States still has a commitment to us, got (ph) to get us united with my son.

BASH: So he is not on --

CHEN: -- as well as the other U.S. citizens.

BASH: Forgive me. So he is not on the list in this first phase, in this current deal?

CHEN: Exactly why we wish to speed up as much as possible, so the second phase that hopefully all the other hostages can be released.

BASH: And as a dual citizen, your son was an American and an Israeli. CHEN: Still is.

BASH: Talk to -- and still is. What is your message to the incoming Trump Administration about -- I spoke to another family member of a hostage yesterday who was very, very clear in saying that he is concerned that after this initial phase is done, that the Trump Administration would maybe lose sight of what's happening. And he was imploring them not to lose sight of the fact that it is far from over, far from a done deal even with this first phase. What is your message to President-elect Donald Trump?

CHEN: I think we need to be grateful for the president. He has shown his commitment to this topic and has been vocal on social media about it. There have not been a lot of topics that he has been vocal on. I could say from the elections, the two teams, both the Trump incoming and Trump team with the existing incumbent Biden team have worked very closely together. And we had an opportunity to meet Mr. Mike Waltz a few weeks ago, and he showed us his commitment, as well as Mr. Steve Witkoff and Adam Bola (ph), all of them have showed that commitment, and I am positive that they will continue to push for this topic, especially since there are still U.S. citizens that are being held hostage.

[12:45:00]

And I know they have a personal commitment to make this to the finish line. And I would also like to thank as well the different members of Congress and the Senate that have been with us, which has been a bipartisan issue, where we've been getting support from both sides of the aisle. And I would only hope that the 119th Congress and its committees would also be helpful in making sure that there's no daylight between the Trump Administration and Congress, and making sure that there are different levers that can also be provided by the Congress and the Senate to make sure that all the hostages come out.

BASH: Ruby, as you're talking, we're seeing your beautiful son in that photo behind you. Can you tell us about him?

CHEN: Yeah. So he's the middle sibling. So he has an elder sibling and a younger sibling. So he's the connector, fun loving kid, like any kid that you would see growing up in the States. I am a proud New Yorker, proud New York Knicks fan. For the love of God, I do not know how, but he became a Celtics fan --

(LAUGH)

CHEN -- and we'd always watch basketball together. And he, at the age of 18, he had the opportunity to go to college. He, by the way, also has a German citizenship via his mother, so he had all the alternatives open to him. He grew up with values of giving back, and he decided to join the IDF. And he has a loving girlfriend that is still with hope, that maybe the notice that we got is not what we were told, because we did not have that physical component.

And maybe a miracle did happen. So we miss him a lot. And he is someone that always lights up the room and is very vocal and loves to dance and sing and just being the life on the party. And it's been 467 days. And again, we very much want to be at that place where we hear that our son is coming out. I've had this vision.

We are coming in next week to the inauguration, the inauguration team invited us to U.S. families. And I still have that hope that maybe sometime during that inauguration or a few days after, Mr. Trump, the president, will actually come to me and say, Mr. Chen, I've been able to get your son out. So I'm waiting for that to happen.

BASH: You are incredible and your whole family is just remarkable. Your relentless love and aggressive push to do everything you possibly can against all odds. And we're looking at a picture right now of your son, and I can sort of see somewhere in there his rebellion and why he said, no, dad, I'm not going to be a Knicks fan. I'm going to be a Celtics fan. So, we appreciate --

(LAUGH)

CHEN: Yeah, that's the kid.

BASH: Yeah. We appreciate you coming on and talking about your experience with the negotiators and most importantly, your son. Stay in touch. Appreciate it, Ruby.

CHEN: Thank you. Have a good evening.

BASH: Thank you. And back here at the table, Alex, I know that as I've been talking with our colleagues and others, you have been talking to your sources.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yeah. Just listening to Mr. Chen there, I'm reminded of the different nationalities who are represented. We've been talking about the Israelis and the Americans. some of whom are dual nationals, but there are at least 10 who are from other countries, eight from Thailand, one from Nepal, one from Tanzania. So when they would come out is also a big question.

And I think we're hitting on some important points here about how this is all going to unfold. The Biden and the Trump administrations are very much on the same page about wanting to get this deal off the ground. But what comes next? I'm not necessarily clear on where the Trump Administration stands for the future of Gaza. What happens at the end of those six weeks? The Biden Administration has been very firm about the day-after plans and wanting to come up with a Palestinian government that could run the Gaza Strip, to rejuvenate the Palestinian Authority.

You heard Secretary Blinken just a moment ago saying that it is important for the Israeli troops to pull out of the Gaza Strip.

[12:50:00]

That's always been the Biden Administration's position. Is that the same in the Trump Administration? And we've been talking about how firm Hamas has been, how reluctant they have been to agree to a deal. And that's in part because also Netanyahu and his government have been moving the goalposts at different times, saying we want to remain in the Gaza Strip. We're going to stay in that Philadelphi Corridor along the border between Gaza and Egypt. So this has been a very, very tough negotiation.

And once these negotiations for phase two get underway during the Trump Administration, I think it's going to be very, very interesting to see what the Trump Administration's view is of the future of Gaza. Do they agree that Israel should pull out of the Gaza Strip? For months and months, the U.S. and the Israeli military structure and officials have been saying that Israel has accomplished its military goals, that they have decimated Hamas to the point where they can no longer carry out another attack like October 7th.

BASH: But there is -- there's a but here.

MARQUARDT (via telephone): But there's a remarkable admission by Secretary Blinken just yesterday, in one of his outgoing speeches, saying that of all the thousands of Hamas militants who have been taken off the battlefield, they have replenished their ranks. They have managed to recruit an equal number, he said, of Hamas fighters to join Hamas. So Hamas is not going anywhere.

So this is very much a political and diplomatic question that needs to be answered in order to marginalize Hamas and make sure that they no longer control the Gaza Strip.

BASH: Yes, Hamas is not going anywhere, unless and until, its funding from Iran largely is gone. And that would only happen if there is, as you said, a diplomatic and political solution that includes other countries in the region who are willing to put skin in the game, and to help reconstitute a Gaza.

MARQUARDT (via telephone): Well, why are these thousands of young Palestinians joining? Because they have no other hope. They need to be given another choice.

BASH: Exactly.

MARQUARDT (via telephone): They need to be given more hope for a future of Gaza, for a future of a Palestinian state. And so far, they have not seen that.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST (via telephone): And one of the reasons that Hamas probably agreed to this right now is the fear that the Trump Administration would back Netanyahu if he decides we've got to stay in Gaza. We've got to reoccupy Gaza, especially since some parts of Trump's orbit have talked about --

BASH: Absolutely.

DOZIER (via telephone): -- that re-occupation. So that's the stick in this deal.

BASH: Well, on that note, the president-elect just put out a more lengthy statement, taking credit for what he called the epic ceasefire agreement, said it only happened because of our historic victory in November. Also said that the Steve Witkoff, who we've been talking about, who was in the region, was helping to get this done. He's going to be the incoming Trump Mid East Envoy, that he will continue promoting peace through strength throughout the region as they build upon the momentum of the ceasefire to further expand the historic Abraham Accords.

That is an interesting statement right there. The Abraham Accords. What is that? And that is a -- during the first Trump administration, a very historic important treaty that did deals with the U.S. and also Israel and some Arab countries in the region.

DOZIER (via telephone): Normalized relations.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Normalized relations. And what Prime Minister Netanyahu has been desperate for is to extend that to Saudi Arabia. One of those countries I mentioned that has some pretty deep pockets. And there is a -- there is a belief that the terror attack, the brutal terror attack on October 7th, 2023, that ended what was a ceasefire, beforehand, was in large part to try to blow up the Saudi deal with Israel that was impending. And by the way, it worked.

So the fact that he is saying expand the historic Abraham Accords is a signal to the Saudis we're in business again. Let's talk about this.

DOZIER (via telephone): Yes. That's one of the reasons that Trump has wanted the hostage deal and the fighting to be over before he took office. Because the only way you're going to expand the Abraham Accords to other Arab nations, and once Saudi signs on, then that will be a green light to a lot of other Arab nations to also sign on. But the populations in each of those Gulf countries have been furious over the Israeli crackdown in Gaza. You've got to have that go away, so that the leaders of those countries can move forward on the Abraham Accords.

MARQUARDT (via telephone): And there have been two major conditions that the Saudis have put down to normalize with Israel. And by the way, they want to normalize with Israel as well --

BASH: Yeah.

[12:55:00]

MARQUARDT (via telephone): -- because they're going to get all kinds of things from the United States.

MARQUARDT: An end to the war --

BASH: Absolutely.

MARQUARDT: -- and Palestinian statehood -- an irreversible path to Palestinian statehood, the Israelis have not been willing to give that, understandably. There are a lot of Israelis, both in the government and on the streets, who are saying why should we give them a state after the October 7th attacks? But I would go back to what I was just saying before, is that a lot of people are arguing that you need to give Palestinians some kind of hope for their own country, so that they reject forces like Hamas.

BASH: Yeah, you're right. That's exactly right. Audie?

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: I think that this is one of those moments where a lot of interests came together and especially for the families involved, that's a joyous thing. But considering where our politics are, it's a joyous thing. There were many people who had an interest in getting this done. And when we talk about what influence Trump had, I mean, we can't let go of the fact that so many people in the Biden Administration talked about just uncertainty, not knowing what the various players coming in, the potential ambassadors, Secretary of State, what their positions would be and how that would play out.

So, I think it should be considered like kind of a win for the moment, or the word that people have been using today and should probably stick with, which is reprieve. This is a deal with a phase one, and if it doesn't survive its phase one, you don't get to your phase two. So I think for the rest of the day, as people are listening to this reporting, what you're hearing is what are the parameters of that phase one? What has to hold for us to make it to Sunday for the world to make it past Sunday? It's really a day of more questions. But at least it's a day where, as you said, it's positive news to talk about.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And listen, Biden will address the nation tonight.

BASH: That's right.

HENDERSON: -- in his farewell speech, and I'm sure he --

BASH: Guessing they're tweaking that speech right now.

HENDERSON: Yes. I'm sure he'll take credit for what we're going to see with this hostage release. And historians will look back at Biden's Administration and wonder what could have been in terms of his engagement with Israel, what that did to some of the folks in his party, maybe suppressing some of the enthusiasm for his administration among people on the left. Could he have pressured Israel more earlier in terms of funding their efforts in Gaza?

Could that have moved this along further? Did he have any leverage that he didn't want to use because it was too politically toxic? So, there are a lot of questions that historians will ask about this moment. And I think some of the comparisons too, that you mentioned, to Jimmy Carter. But listen, it is a happy moment. Some of these families are going to end the day very, very happy, with reunions at some point with their relatives and some will obviously get not so great news as well.

BASH: Yeah. And just picking up on what you just said about how the Biden Administration approached Israel. As Tony Blinken has been giving a series of interviews, including with Christiane earlier today, he has been much more open about what happened in those initial days after October 7th, his very long -- hours long meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and his cabinet, trying to convince them that understandably, in their anger and despair to just take into consideration the humanitarian aspect of the retaliation and other points along the way that the Democratic base didn't want to listen to.

HENDERSON: Yeah.

BASH: -- but was very much factored in to their conversations. A lot of times, it wasn't just the base didn't want to listen to what they were trying to do. The challenge for the Biden Administration is that neither did Prime Minister Netanyahu.

DOZIER (via telephone): Yeah. Blinken revealed that Netanyahu had supported the call for a total blockade on Gaza, no humanitarian aid in. That was what his very right-wing government was calling for and Blinken had to tell him behind closed doors, Biden will not come here. I will get on the phone and tell him not to come here for that bear hug if you don't agree to give the Palestinians aid.

And I think a lot of the Democrats in places like the Arab-Americans in Michigan didn't understand this tightrope the Biden Administration has been walking to keep the Israelis on side and keep the punishment private, the threats private, while publicly embracing them.

BASH: And that the -- we had no idea who was going to win the election at that point. But that, for them, at that point, maybe the Biden Administration was their best bet because Donald Trump and the people who are going to come into his administration might not care about -- as much, I'm not saying they don't care about the humanitarian situation in Gaza, but they are more focused on backing Israel and what they say that they want and need at any given time.

MARQUARDT: Yeah. I think Israelis are certainly very happy to see Donald Trump coming into office. He's seen as much more pro-Israel than President Biden has been. Biden kind of took a lose-lose approach where he kept giving Israel the weapons that it wanted to continue this war. And obviously, there were a lot of Israeli -- critics of Israel who were not happy with that, both here in the United States and all around the --