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Inside Politics
Trump Cracks Down On Dissent In And Out of Government; This Week: First Major Elections Of Trump's Second Term. Interview with Sen. Jon Ossoff (D-GA); New Book "Fight" Details Behind-the-Scenes of 2024 Election; Bill Nye Warns Cuts to NASA Could Harm U.S. Leadership. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired March 30, 2025 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
[08:00:29]
MANU RAJU, CNN HOST (voice-over): Crack down.
Trump clamps down on dissent at home.
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We're looking every day for these lunatics that are tearing things up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is punishing America categorically.
RAJU: While he downplays voters' worries over prices and the concerns over his national security team. Is Trump changing America for good?
And GOP jitters. Elon Musk pays up ahead of a GOP test at the ballot box.
REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): Look, I've been in a House. It's tough to count these votes every day.
RAJU: As one of the most vulnerable Democrats tells me why he thinks the tide is turning for his party.
SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): He's going after his enemies. He's talking about invading Greenland. He's doing nothing for families.
RAJU: And defying gravity.
ANNOUNCER: As Columbus set sail --
RAJU: Bill Nye on how upcoming NASA cuts could change the space race.
BILL NYE, SCIENCE GUY: What's going on now is dividing people, not bringing them together.
RAJU: INSIDE POLITICS, the best reporting from inside the corridors of power, starts now. (MUSIC)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU (on camera): Good morning and welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Manu Raju.
As President Donald Trump confronts the biggest political crisis of his new presidency, he is not swerving from his mission this week to crack down on his critics and dissent. His administration has targeted college students backing pro-Palestinian causes, law firms aligned with Democrats, a top vaccine official out of step with RFK Jr., and judges who deem Trump's policies illegal. Even museums in the nation's capital may soon get a MAGA makeover.
All as the fallout continues after a stunning national security leak by his closest advisers, raising questions about their judgment.
A lot to unpack this morning with an excellent panel of reporters, "Politico's" Dasha Burns, Astead Herndon with "The New York Times", Semafor's" David Weigel, and Amie Parnes with "The Hill" newspaper, who is also the author of a brand new book called "Fight: Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House", out this Tuesday.
Congratulations on the new book, Amie. We'll talk more about that later in the show.
And good morning to you all.
Let's talk about the news from overnight. Trump talking about the controversy in the aftermath of the signal, the revelation that he and his national security team, vice president J.D. Vance, the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, in particular, talking about strikes that were forthcoming on Yemen in that unsecured channel on Signal.
Trump was asked about this by NBC News about whether anyone would actually be held accountable. And he said, I don't fire people because of fake news and because of witch hunts.
This is an uptick in his pushback against this damaging revelation. Dasha, you had done some reporting --
DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: Yeah.
RAJU: -- behind the scenes about them discussing Mike Waltz, who created this communication channel, whether they should oust him. Trump seems he's ready to just try to bury this and move on.
Can he?
BURNS: Well, here's the deal. The agreement inside between both his advisors and President Trump is that they don't want to give the media, the Democrats, Goldberg himself, a scalp. I've heard this time and time again.
However, that doesn't mean that Waltz is out of the woods. Theres still an overwhelming unity among those closest to President Trump that Waltz needs to go, that there needs to be some accountability here. And the consensus is that Waltz is the guy that that needs to -- to take that accountability, especially because of how he sort of, in their view, blundered the fallout with that Fox News interview where he said that contact got sucked into his phone.
It just -- people wanted him to say, I made a mistake. Let's move on. Thats not what he did.
But what's likely to happen is that they're going to take a bit of time. They don't want to fire him or make him resign, or push him out right now and look like they're responding to this. They've regretted doing that in the past.
So that's what saved Waltz this week. But I'd say watch for the next week or two.
RAJU: Yeah, unless the moves -- the other point of it is that unless the news cycle moves on and they're ready to move on as well, but they're just, you know, the defiance has always been the trend of Donald Trump. He's always digging in.
Can he remain this defiant when it is clear that there are concerns on both sides of the aisle about the judgment, the decisions that were made to have this communication that could have exposed American security, could have jeopardized national security for the United States?
[08:05:02]
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's what's putting Waltz at risk, really. It's not the just Democrats or the media. It's the fact that even some Republicans are saying that there must be some accountability for this year.
And I think that that is what makes sense. You hear this kind of from different corners of the universe. Weve been following up with some voters as part of our own reporting. Folks we met last year on the campaign trail, right when this scandal came out, and it was kind of an avatar for incompetence, for unseriousness, right? Like that is what I think they're up against.
Now, you hear some Republicans, to Dasha's point, saying they want the administration to take responsibility and say, we made a mistake. And so, I know that's not a --
(CROSSTALK)
RAJU: Those are very hard words for the Trump White House to say.
HERNDON: Yes, we know that's not in Donald Trump's DNA. We also know were not in his DNA is that direct confrontation. He likes other people to kind of open up that space for him. He's not usually the one to go in that hand-to-hand combat himself. And so, he's staying away from it right now. I just wonder how long it lasts. BURNS: But when you're losing people like David Portnoy, like, Tomi
Lahren, like people who are hard core conservatives, who are MAGA conservatives, supportive of the president, but they're saying this is not a good look. Guys, you need it -- you need to approach this a different way.
RAJU: How much different would it have been if they just said, we did make a mistake? It was a big error in judgment. We're going to fix this going forward.
BURNETT: Investigations that are going to keep the news cycle going.
RAJU: Exactly. Meantime, there's also pushback about how he's dealing with tariffs on April 2nd -- April 3rd, 25 percent tariffs across all cars that the United States imports is set to take effect. He was asked also about this as well. He said, I couldn't care less if they raise prices because people are going to start buying American cars, referring to foreign car prices.
Trump has been going back and forth about the tariffs. Does it seem like he's dead set on going ahead now?
DAVID WEIGEL, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Oh, you had to ask it like that.
(LAUGHTER)
WEIGEL: Because he has done -- he's gone right to the brink multiple times. And you do find from his defenders, from the Republicans who are much more happy defending him on everything they were eight years ago.
If he's about to announce a tariff, it's brilliant. If he -- if he pulls it back, it's the art of the deal. We've seen that again and again.
The -- this is, I think, the week that people with money on the line started to think that this is serious because Trump ran on this in the election. He ran on things that didn't really cohere. We were going to raise tariffs. We're also going to bring prices back to what you were used to in 2019.
And if you were on the finance side, if you -- if you were advising somebody on their investments, you'd say, yeah, but he's going to bring back the 2019 economy. Thats going to be the focus because Trump wants to -- Trump wants to benefit from a good economy, not have not have trade wars.
Look at -- look at the results in 20 -- in the first term. That's not been happening. This is more serious. What the situation in Canada where Canadians are treating this like an existential threat and very real, and it's completely upturned their politics. I think some of that is bleeding here, where people know that he actually wants to do this.
And the idea is restructuring the economy over several years so that maybe in five years we have more manufacturing in Ohio and Wisconsin. In the short term, the pain that people will have is not what they were promised.
RAJU: Yeah.
WEIGEL: They were promised $2 gas. They were promised 2019 prices.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNS: Right.
WEIGEL: They promised cheaper cars. Yeah.
RAJU: Yeah. I mean, this is just so striking. Just -- just to take a step back. I mean to say I don't -- couldn't care less if they raise prices. I mean, the whole campaign was about lowering prices.
WEIGEL: We're going to kill the EV credit. But don't worry about your car.
AMIE PARNES, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, THE HILL: Yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, when you're hearing when I talk to Republicans, they're saying that this is a big concern, the inconsistency, the fluctuation, all of that.
It continues to do that. They're going to -- you're going to start hearing more and more from them. I think they've kind of held back right now. But I think in the coming weeks, if you see the markets going up and down again, you're going to hear from them increasingly.
BURNS: I'm talking to Republican operatives who are very close to the Trump administration, but who also have clients who have money on the line, who are saying, I'm having to talk people off the ledge here, people, business leaders who voted for Trump, who are suddenly freaking out a little bit.
RAJU: No -- no question. Yeah. And I've talked to Republicans, too. It's usually, they're saying, let's see what happens. He's got a strategy here.
They take a deep breath and then, you know, they hope for the best. Hope is not necessarily a strategy.
But let's just take a step back to about this week. We've seen, you know, Trump has used in the first couple of months his power in the government going beyond the executive power in a lot of ways, getting reined in by the courts, but also trying to crack down on his critics, trying to crack down on dissent.
Some of the things, some of the things that he has done targeting law firms, Democratic ties with executive actions. There has been some litigation on that. He has gotten some victories on that as well, with some of the Democratic-leaning law firms outside cutting a deal with him on this issue. A whole bunch of other matters as well, going after attacking, attacking judges who presided over some of these cases and in some cases even calling them out by name, going after college students' visas. That is another one that has been pretty remarkable.
What is your takeaway from -- from all of this that we've seen in this, this past week, whether it's targeting the Smithsonian institution or forcing a top vaccine official, Trump's effort to use his government to go after people who break with him?
HERNDON: Yeah. I mean, this White House's effort to reshape government, to reshape culture is total and complete. And I think the point of this administration is what Donald Trump promised is retribution.
[08:10:00]
The point of it is that kind of get back for a group of people who feel as if they have been targeted over the last several years, and they see that as greater than the point of calibrating to the median voter, right? So, sometimes I go back to some of these officials and I'm like, you know, I'm not sure if the voters wanted these tariffs. I'm not sure if they are. They will basically say, well, what's the big deal? Like, we'll lose some House seats.
And so, I think that people need to see this as a broader project about executive authority, about a broader project, about retribution. And so, I -- and so, you know, what he's doing is somewhat what he promised. It can feel kind of glib to say that, but I'm like, this was the point. And for a lot of people, particularly folks I met on the campaign trail, there was a lack of belief that Donald Trump was serious.
And I think that for some folks, it's setting in these business leaders you all are talking about, and it's like, I mean, it's a little late in the game now because this is a project about power, not politics.
RAJU: He did talk about retribution in the campaign, but perhaps people didn't expect this level of retribution.
PARNES: No, I mean, this is like a million times worse than I think what a lot of even Democrats expected. It's a whole new Trump presidency. And -- and the thing is, he did run on this to your point.
But I think you're looking at polling also right now that says that a lot of Americans aren't for this. You know, you talk to reasonable independents or moderate Republicans, and they're all kind of wincing a little bit and taking a step back.
And they're privately telling me, you know, I'm not as comfortable as I thought I would be with some of these issues. And so, I wonder if this comes back to bite him in some way. And he starts.
BURNS: But the impact, I mean, the snowball effect is taking place already, like with the law firm retribution, for example, he signed these executive orders. They're getting challenged in court. They might not stand. However, this week I reported two different times.
We obtained emails once from the Senate GOP and once from the House GOP, where they were circulating a note saying, hey, look at these law firm's clients, look at these law, maybe you might want to think twice before engaging with them.
So, whether it's Trump's executive orders or just the symbolic messaging from behind the Resolute Desk is having an impact.
WEIGEL: And this is about generational wins. This is about burning down cartages and salting it so it can't come back. That means the universities, that -- that means liberal law firms. That means --
PARNES: The Smithsonian.
WEIGEL : And some of these are Trump's retribution.
HERNDON: Kennedy Center.
WEIGEL: I didn't hear a lot of voters. You probably didn't hear saying, we really want revenge on Andrew Weissman.
RAJU: Yeah.
WEIGEL: Did you hear that?
(LAUGHTER)
WEIGEL: But have I heard conservatives for decades say we let the culture get away from us? There are too many universities undermining us. Our kids are going to these schools and coming out anti-Israel, all of a sudden, all of this -- the -- these are about undermining all these left and liberal building blocks of -- of culture.
And so, even if someone else wins in 2028, if a Democrat wins, can they rebuild that? Thats the -- that's the theory. Break it down so much that you can never rebuild that structure.
And the theory is then the left can never come back. Then Trump took care of this problem forever for us.
RAJU: Yeah. And there's been this discussion about what's happening on college campuses. There was this Turkish PhD student on a legal student visa at Tufts University who was arrested and physically restrained by immigration officers you're seeing there.
There has not been any charges filed against Rumeysa Ozturk, the Turkish PhD student. The judge on Friday ordered Ozturk from -- be against her, from her being deported until this hearing proceeds next week, and we'll see what the government actually says.
She had written an op-ed in her student newspaper that aligning with pro-Palestinian causes, and that seems to be the trend here. There are a number of Trump administration deportation targets in a number of these universities. For people who have voiced, who have been who've been cited with these pro-Palestinian efforts, you can say that you could disagree with their position on this, but they have a First Amendment right to say what they want to say. And -- but there's a -- the administration is certainly digging in on
all of this, too. Kristi Noem was in the El Salvadoran prison where they had sent those Venezuelans who had been sent there deported. And we still don't know -- the administration alleges that they are tied to Venezuelan gang, but we still don't know much about this case, which has now been, what, two weeks or so. Do we expect to learn anything about who these prisoners are and what the actual charges were against them?
HERNDON: Oh, I think -- I think the administration, that burden of proof is on them. But like the we haven't seen a public pushback, which is an interesting point to me. Like if this thing would have happened in 2017, '18, there would have been mass pushback, it would have forced it.
And so not only is the White House not necessarily reacting or calibrating the politicians, I wonder if there is going to be a public effort to force that level of transparency and clarity, because we know that's not coming from the White House themselves.
RAJU: Yeah. And if the courts try to do it, would they listen to the courts?
HERNDON : Yeah.
RAJU: We've seen that fight go back and forth. It's going to take some time to play out.
All right. Next, election day is Tuesday. So why are Republicans suddenly fretting about a seat in a ruby red house district?
Plus, Elon Musk's money.
[08:15:00]
Can the world's richest man tip a key race in one of the nation's biggest battlegrounds?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RAJU: This Tuesday may give us an early sense of how voters feel about President Trump since he reclaimed the White House. Republicans are fretting about the Florida congressional seat left behind by Mike Waltz, even though it's in a ruby red district.
The sudden jitteriness over Republican control of the House even caused Congresswoman Elise Stefanik her job as the next U.N. ambassador.
And Tuesday could be a referendum of sorts on Elon Musk, who has become the central player in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race.
My excellent panel is back.
So, this -- the amount of money that Elon Musk has poured into the Wisconsin state Supreme Court race is quite staggering. [08:20:03]
More than $20 million in the race so far, giving money to the state party. Theres been a super PAC that he's been involved with, ad spending from Elon Musk-backed groups.
And then he said that he was going to be in Wisconsin tonight. And part of what he is offering checks for $1 million to 2 million people to be spokesman for a petition from his super PAC calling for the opposition of activist judges.
David Weigel, you were just in Wisconsin covering this race. Is this really a referendum on Musk?
WEIGEL: Both parties want it to be. Is the irony here is that the Democrats were very happy to see Republicans talk more about this race. They think if they nationalize it because it's not a persuasion game, it is who can get as many of their 2024 voters out this time. Democrats think, and their polling says Musk is so unpopular, Trump is unpopular with their voters, convinced them to come out and stop these guys from buying the election.
With Republicans, I was out there when Don Jr. was campaigning and the activist judges argument fits right into the anger they see from their voters about courts stopping Donald Trump. And they were saying right out, if you don't like this judge stopping some judge from the middle of nowhere, was -- was the way Don Jr. put it, stopping Trump from doing something he ran on, then vote for our candidate in this race. Vote for Brad Schimel.
And Schimel is not running around and commenting on every one of these cases, and they wouldn't be going before the Wisconsin state Supreme Court anyway.
But that is their message to Republican voters. This is just like voting in 2024. Theres an ad the Republican state legislative committee is running that says, if you don't vote in this race, it will be like Trump never won. And it looks like a 2024 campaign ad.
But both parties think, yeah, nationalize this, get as many of our votes out as possible. Thats the way to do this race. Let's -- maybe a little bit less about the actual issues on the court, yeah.
RAJU: I mean, there are huge issues in front of the court in Wisconsin abortion law, redistricting that could impact control of the House, you name it. It's obviously a critical swing district as well.
But this is Musk's playbook. And he did this in the Pennsylvania -- in Pennsylvania and helped Donald Trump. He offered money to voters to sign a petition. They want Pennsylvania.
PARNES: Yeah. I mean, and he thinks that he can do it here, but I think it could backfire because, as Dave says, I think it's a problem. I think they're campaigning on him specifically. He can donate all he wants, but when he's like the subject of the actual race and the race is almost become about him, I think that's really problematic for him. RAJU: It's a -- meantime, there's this concern in Trump world about
this Florida House seat. It was so bad that it cost Elise Stefanik her job as the U.N. ambassador because they're worried about the margins and the unrest among the electorate. And perhaps, if there's another vacancy in the House, that could narrow the already razor thin Republican majority, 218 to 213, the current Republican majority, there are four vacancies. Two of those are in Democratic seats.
So, you can just do the math. One seat could be so huge right now. And right now, their concern is about the Mike Waltz seat in Florida. The special election is on Tuesday. That is a district that Trump won by 30 points back in 2024.
I mean, it seems unlikely that they're going to lose on Tuesday, but there are real fears.
BURNS: They don't want it to even be close. I mean, look, we've talked about Florida and how it's basically gone for Democrats right after the last couple of elections. And now, they're that concerned that Elise Stefanik like, let's remember, this is somebody who is ultra loyal to Trump, beloved by MAGA world, was absolutely the person that he wanted to give.
RAJU: Gave up her leadership position in the House.
BURNS: That's right, that's right. And she has to take one for the team now because there's this concern, I mean, that says a lot. This is a proxy battle that they are desperate to win and certainly to win with -- with significant margins.
RAJU: Yes. The narrative, even if it's close, will be a bad one for them.
HERNDON: This is the great irony of the of the Democrats kind of conundrum right now is they've lost their way in the kind of national base, but they've really grown in terms of these hyper engaged voters, these college educated voters, voters in these toward the districts that's helped them out in the last several years. And it puts them put some pressure on some Republicans.
I mean, you know, it in the same way that the Republicans have kind of created problems here in the inverse to Trump brings in someone who doesn't typically vote in elections. But that's not -- that's not the type of person who's voting in the Wisconsin state Supreme Court race or a special election.
And so, Democrats have these opportunities to really show and I think provide their voters some, some cause for -- I think they need to win right now. So, I think those kind of races provide that opportunity, partially because who they've grown with as Republicans have grown in a national way, but lost their way in these kind of in these individual districts.
RAJU: Yeah, and the Republicans have been concerned about the quality of the candidate in that Waltz race. Republican State Senator Randy Fine, he's running against the Democrat Josh Weil in this race. So, they believe it's more of a candidate quality.
However, if there is a narrow victory, let's say he only wins by 5 or 6 points or so. That could have real impacts on advancing the Trump agenda, for instance, because of people, some of the more moderate members say, I'm not sure if I want to walk the plank for Trump, if voters are this concerned about what we're doing.
[08:25:12]
WEIGEL: Yeah, right now, Republicans are still talking about expanding the map and going into places that Trump only lost by five points. And that looks a little bit less likely if these kind of seats are competitive. And this is a candidate who did not do much campaigning in February, did not raise any money. The Democrat was raising money.
I talked to Democrats three weeks ago who were annoyed that he was raising so much money because they thought it was a waste of time, but the larger context is Democrats have picked up two state senate seats in the last in the last couple of months in eastern Iowa and Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, both with the kind of candidates that they like to run in House races. The -- who will not -- who are not going to answer litmus test questions, who are not running on a particular ideological issue, who are just aren't you tired of how things don't work? I'm going to make things work again. And I'm moderate.
That's what they're -- this is a teacher who's running a -- in Josh Weil in Florida. Very -- this is something they think they can model across the country. And so maybe there are many Republicans worried about losing their seats. But this is a repeatable campaign for Democrats.
RAJU: Yeah, no question about it. And you know, the turnout is obviously going to be key. But the low turnout elections have been actually beneficial for Democrats in recent cycles because Trump juices the turnout. Trump is not on the ticket here. How does that impact things? What does that mean for the midterms? All things, of course, we'll be dissecting after the Tuesday election.
All right. Next, my exclusive interview with the most vulnerable Democrat in the Senate. His surprising advice for Democrats to win back control in purple states.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:31:08]
JOHN RATCLIFFE, CIA DIRECTOR: They characterize it as embarrassment.
SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): This is utterly unprofessional. There's been no apology. There has been no recognition of the gravity of this error.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN HOST: That was Georgia Senator Jon Ossoff, the most endangered Senate Democrat up for reelection in 2026, in a fiery exchange this past week with the CIA director over the now infamous Signal chat. Ossoff is fighting for reelection in a purple state that Joe Biden flipped in 2020 by just three-tenths of a percent until Trump flipped it back in 2024, beating Kamala Harris by more than two points.
Now, I caught up with Senator Ossoff exclusively this past week as he gave me a window into how he sees his path for reelection.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU: Do you think he was telling you the truth?
OSSOFF: I don't buy that they were as ignorant or forgetting of the details of this exchange as they claimed. This put U.S. military personnel at risk.
RAJU: So Pete Hegseth has defended his handling of this and said that he knows what he's doing here and that there was no classified information exchanged in this. What do you say to him?
OSSOFF: He's reckless. He's unqualified. He should have resigned yesterday. No military officer would survive this. Any military officer who so recklessly handled or inadvertently disclosed this kind of information would lose their job, their security clearance, and possibly face a court martial, and he should resign.
RAJU: Last week you had a big rally for your reelection campaign. As part of this, you said that Trump is trying to poison democracy. You're the only Senate -- incumbent Senate Democrat who's running for reelection in a state that Trump won. Why make that a focus, given the Republican tilt in Georgia?
OSSOFF: Well, because it's true and because it's urgent, and it requires us to push back. I don't think at any time in American history, we have seen a president use fear and intimidation in the way that Donald Trump does.
And I have never seen opposition energy like this from dyed-in-the- wool Democrats to moderate Republicans. There is outrage.
He's going after his enemies. He's talking about invading Greenland. He's doing nothing for families in Georgia.
And if you look at special election results just in the last 48 to 72 hours, the energy and opposition, I believe, is building toward a landslide victory in 2026.
RAJU: For Democrats. Is there a risk of turning off swing voters by going after Trump so aggressively?
OSSOFF: I think the president is turning off swing voters by acting so recklessly, by abusing his power.
Nothing this administration is pursuing addresses the daily concerns of my constituents. My constituents are concerned about health care. They're concerned about child care. They're concerned about the cost of housing.
What does invading Greenland and going after your political opponents have to do with anything that matters to ordinary people?
RAJU: Why do you think the Democrats are having such a hard time connecting with voters?
OSSOFF: Well, look at our rally in Atlanta, we had thousands of people come from across the political spectrum to express their outrage and opposition at what this administration is doing right now. And that, I believe, is where the energy is.
I think that there is disappointment, of course, about the defeat in November. That's in the past. Now we're moving forward.
RAJU: Do you still support Schumer as the Democratic leader here?
OSSOFF: I do.
RAJU: You may run against the Georgia Governor Brian Kemp. What do you think about his chances as a Senate candidate?
OSSOFF: We will see who runs. It may be the governor.
[08:34:47]
OSSOFF: President Trump has said that he would back Marjorie Taylor Greene to run for United States Senate. I don't think that she's got the guts to do it, but she would be a disaster in the United States Senate.
RAJU: What about Kemp?
OSSOFF: Well, I'll be ready for any opponent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU: All right. My excellent panel is back.
He wants to run against Marjorie Taylor Greene by that comment, but --
(CROSSTALKING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fingers and toes.
RAJU: Exactly. Goading her into the race. What do you make of that? I mean look, this is -- sometimes a senator who's up for reelection in a purple state say, I work with the other president -- the other party. I like to cut deals.
He's saying, let's go after Donald Trump. That's where he says, quote, "the energy is".
DASHA BURNS, POLITICO WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF: Look, it's a compelling theory of the case, especially the way Ossoff presents it. And I have heard from voters that they do like a Democrat with a spine.
If, and if is important, they can really deliver the message and can make the case for what they're standing for. However, I've also heard compelling theories of the case for moderation, for bringing it back to a time when Democrats were for the working class and could bring people together and stood for -- stood for something else.
RAJU: Yes. That's going to be the challenge, right?
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it is. And I think it's interesting though because also making a distinction between, I think like a lefty progressivism and standing up and just fighting -- I think fighting in the posture that's outside of an ideological lane.
And I think that's where kind of a lot of Democrats are. It's not necessarily a question of moderate versus progressive, but a party that really wants a politician to stand up and wants to push back against Donald Trump and can voice their own kind of opposition.
And so I think that that's where he's really trying to lean in.
RAJU: And talk to the National Republican Senatorial Committee for a comment about this. They cited a case in Georgia involving a Honduran national who was illegally in the United States and is accused of murder and accused -- attacked the immigration record of Ossoff and Democrats.
They say that it's shameful. Georgia deserves better.
I asked Ossoff about immigration, given its going to be such a hot button issue come 2026.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Is your party out of step on the issue of immigration?
OSSOFF: Look, I think that the American people expect and deserve secure borders and the country depends upon our government's ability to know and control who enters and exits our territory.
But this administration's approach -- federal police raids on elementary schools and churches and hospitals, the suspension of due process is draconian. And I think that the American people are turning against it.
RAJU: Do you think that Trump has done anything right on immigration so far?
OSSOFF: Well, look, I think the American people expect and deserve a secure border. And I think that the Biden administration had made some changes far too late.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Trying to navigate a line but attacking Trump's immigration record. DAVID WEIGEL, SEMAFOR NATIONAL BUREAU REPORTER: And it -- per the
statement you were quoting from -- the Laken Riley Act is what he's going to use as the -- as the armor. If he's attacked on that it's I did vote for border protection. He didn't vote against deporting people who committed crimes and not for the students.
You can see the administration trying to find cases that they think liberals are going to have a tough time defending. They do have a tough time defending somebody who's committed crimes in the country, not a college student writing an essay.
AMY PARNES, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE HILL: And here's the thing. Democrats have been on defense on this issue. They need to try to get on offense. They can't just play defense the whole time. And that kind of is what, you know, burned them last time. So they need a plan.
RAJU: That's such a good point. And that's why he tried to go after Trump on this.
Will any of this work and will other Democrats replicate this strategy? We shall see.
Coming up, as President Trump and Vice President Vance spread MAGA on the world stage, new details from Amy's yet to be released book on their behind-the-scenes dynamics.
[08:38:37]
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RAJU: This week's revelations from the Signal chat hinted at some daylight between Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, as the president was considering strikes in Yemen.
And this morning, we have new reporting from Amy Barnes -- Amy Parnes about how Vance got on the ticket to begin with.
In their book, "Fight: Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House", Amy and her coauthor Jonathan Allen share behind the scenes details of how Vance pitched himself to Trump during a fateful meeting at Mar-a- Lago, writing, "Vance leaned into the idea that he would be a good governing partner because his worldview aligned with Trump's. He had been early to endorse a Trump comeback bid in January 2023, and he frequently and ably promoted the former president's message in hostile television interviews.
Anyone could deliver friendly talking points in a friendly interview, Trump thought, but not everyone has the stones to go toe to toe with the haters."
And Amy is here, still. Congratulations again on the book. Tell us about the reporting and what you learned about this dynamic.
PARNES: Yes, we talked to a lot of people who were on board. There's an interesting fight that plays out on Trump Force One one day, where Trump still hasn't picked a VP candidate. He's narrowed it down to three, but he's really down to two.
And there is a fight between Lindsey Graham and Jason Miller, senior adviser on the Trump campaign. And they're going at it. And they're -- you know, Jason Miller is making the case for Vance. And people on the plane are texting Vance's folks, saying, look, Lindsey Graham is really pushing for Rubio here. And so we really need to do something.
And so the pressure was on. And Trump is loving it, loving it. He's sitting back and just watching the theater play out.
[08:44:51]
PARNES: And, you know, he had secretly told -- he had told Vance a day earlier that he was -- that he would be happy with his decision almost winking to him that this would happen, but he hadn't given him the job yet.
So Vance was still kind of on pins and needles, waiting to see if he would actually get it. And then in the 11th hour, he finally -- Trump finally picks up the phone and calls him.
Vance isn't there. He misses the call. And so a Trump aide texted Vance and says, where are you, pick up the phone. And when Trump finally talks to Vance, he says -- he cracks a joke and says, oh, maybe I should have gone with Rubio.
RAJU: I wonder how he views that now. That's great color and behind the scenes detail. But you know, the Trump and the Vance dynamic has been interesting. Vance has been trying to really be the person who is speaking for MAGA in so many ways.
But there was that daylight in this chat Signal -- in this Signal chat from this that was revealed this past week. He said, I'm not sure if the president is aware of how inconsistent this is with his message on Europe right now, referring to those strikes in Yemen. What are you hearing about that dynamic?
BURNS: Well, first of all, Amy, I am so excited to read this because I do think that this dynamic between these two men is becoming such a central story line for this administration because Vance is right now seen by MAGA world at least as the heir apparent.
And Trump does not love to share the spotlight. And the closer we get to 2028, that is going to start to really show. And this Signal chat, we're all talking about Waltz and Hegseth and them feeling the heat.
I would have loved to be inside the room when Trump and Vance had lunch the day after this was revealed, because this is starting to show that Vance, as we've talked about this. Vance has a certain arrogance about him. He likes to take ownership, especially on policy, and he's frankly really adept at some of these policy issues and can deliver the message in a way where Trump delivers the idea, right. But Vance is really good at talking policy, and I think that dynamic is going to be tough.
VAUSE: And Vance was the first VP to ever visit Greenland on Friday, as Trump continues to talk about taking over the island that's not U.S. territory. It's Danish territory. And Vance and Trump are digging in and indicating that they're not going to back down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can't just ignore this place. We can't just ignore the president's desires.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need Greenland very importantly for international security. We have to have Greenland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Again, this is a semi-autonomous Danish territory. How serious -- I mean, this is a priority for this administration. Two months in and Trump is still not ruling out the idea of using military coercion to obtain Greenland.
HERNDON: It's confounding, and it's also quite unsettling personally, to hear we can't just ignore the president's desires, as if the president makes policy via fiat for Greenland, right.
Like this is what kind of Vance has made himself is the pitch for Donald Trump, is the executioner for Donald Trump. And that's where he's tried to really have his political say. Donald Trump says it, I do it.
WEIGEL: But there is a theory behind it, which is that were going back to a strong nationalistic America with a huge, huge presence in our hemisphere. And we're going to make Europe defend itself. We're going to take away the things Europe can't defend, like Greenland.
There is a logic to it. It goes back to what -- what do voters care about? What are they focused on? I've a bit surprised that even renaming the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America has not caught on very well with voters. The idea of Greenland has not caught on with voters.
There are voters who do still look at the national debt clock and say, where is this money coming from for the purchase of this, of this gigantic --
(CROSSTALKING)
RAJU: We have not heard a lot, especially from the DOGE folks. How much money --
(CROSSTALKING)
WEIGEL: So there's a theory, but it clashes with the other theories of how they're supposed to make America great.
RAJU: Yes, exactly. I don't recall hearing much about that in the campaign.
All right. Great discussion. And coming up, why Bill Nye, the Science Guy is trying to defy gravity
in the era of DOGE. His connection to Elon Musk and worries about the future, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: Where did we all come from? And are we alone? And if you want to answer those two questions, you've got to explore the cosmos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:49:04]
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RAJU: As Elon Musk slashes his way through the federal government, the nation's space agency is bracing for impact. NASA has already laid off a small number of employees, including its chief scientist, but its staff is expecting broader cuts.
And this past week, I caught up with none other than Bill Nye, the Science Guy who was on Capitol Hill to try to convince lawmakers that space exploration is, in fact, worth the high cost.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NYE: People are trying to cut the NASA budget for reasons that are not obvious. And so we're here to push back on that.
Space exploration brings us together. NASA is the best brand the United States has. NASA is respected around the world, and it is a matter of leadership. And it's our national interest.
And then also, you want to make these discoveries on another world, which will change the course of history. And you want to inspire the next generation of engineers and scientists. This is all good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: One frustrating debate, he said, is how much to pay to bring rock samples back from Mars.
[08:54:45]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NYE: These are rock samples on Mars from a river delta. Maybe was once very wet. Maybe there was something alive there. And we want to bring these rock samples back to earth.
RAJU: We can't get it back. Is that the issue?
NYE: Well, not right now. Not right now.
RAJU: Because it's out of money. NYE: Or -- the plan that's presented cost too much. Yes. Is there enough money? That's up to these guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Of course. Elon Musk is also the founder of SpaceX, which has billions of dollars in NASA contracts. So how does that impact potential cuts to the space agency?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: You probably have an ally in Elon Musk, right? Given his support for SpaceX and everything he's done in space.
NYE: We have common interests. In fact, back in the day, he was on the board of the Planetary Society, gave him a ride to the airport a long time ago. Common interest, yes. But what's going on now is dividing people, not bringing them together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: All right, that's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X @mkraju, follow the show @INSIDEPOLITICS and follow me on Instagram @manu_raju.
If you ever miss an episode, catch up wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for INSIDE POLITICS.
Up next "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH", Dana's guests include Senator James Lankford and Maryland Governor Wes Moore.
Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. We'll see you next time.
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