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Isa Soares Tonight
U.N. Calls On Israel To Give Access To Al-Shifa Hospital; Shelling In Ukraine's Kherson Region Kills Six; New Details Emerge About The Atrocities In Sudan As Refugees Describe Atrocities In Darfur; Final Day Of Pacific Leaders' Summit In California; SpaceX Mega Rocket Launch Postponed Until Saturday; CNN Explores Regions Of Japan In A New Travel Series. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired November 17, 2023 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show everyone, I'm Julia Chatterley in for Isa Soares. Tonight, the U.N.
calls on Israel to provide access to Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza, in order to vet Israel's claims about Hamas tunnels. We'll have the very latest. Then,
shelling in Ukraine's Kherson region kills six as Russia's relentless war grinds on.
Plus, new details are emerging about the atrocities in Sudan. Refugees from the country's civil war speak to CNN about the violence committed against
ethnic groups in Darfur. And the U.N. Human Rights chief now asking Israel to give his team access to Gaza as the biggest hospital there becomes a
flash point.
Israeli forces have raided Al-Shifa Hospital, claiming military equipment was found inside, and that Hamas was using it as a command center,
releasing this video of a tunnel shaft they say it was discovered nearby. Well, CNN cannot verify these findings as journalists are not allowed to
move inside Gaza independently. We're unable to get comment from hospital authorities at this time too.
But doctors and health officials in Gaza have consistently denied these allegations, and so does Hamas. The United Nations now wants to
investigate, while also calling on Israel to stop using water as a quote, "weapon of war". Nada Bashir joins us now from Jerusalem. It makes sense
that the United Nations wants to try and verify now, but that's not going to happen without an end to the war at the very least a ceasefire, Nada,
which at this stage clearly still not happening.
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Yes, absolutely. And they are not just calling for access in order to be able to carry out an independent investigation,
to verify the fact on the ground, but crucially, the U.N.'s humanitarian office is calling for unimpeded access for their teams to enter Gaza, and
particular, to enter the Al-Shifa Hospital in order to be able to provide the urgent humanitarian relief that is needed by the Gazan population.
Of course, as we know, the humanitarian situation facing those in Gaza, and in particular those patients within Gaza's hospitals is deteriorating by
the hour. We've heard the warnings from medical officials on the ground, we know of course, after hearing from the medical director at the Al-Shifa
Hospital, speaking to "Al Jazeera" earlier in the day, saying that a number of patients in the intensive care unit, including premature babies have now
died as a result of the electricity cuts at the hospital has faced.
As we know, the vast majority of hospitals are now in operation or particularly focusing on northern Gaza where we've seen these hospitals
trying to function under the most difficult and challenging of circumstances. Doctors at Al-Shifa trying to operate on patients without
even anesthetics. We know of course that they have now closed all of their operating suites.
We've been hearing from doctors at the Al-Ahli Hospital, which was said to be the last standing, although, of course, we are -- they are functioning
under pretty challenging circumstances over there as well. And as you know, they have said that they are carrying out amputations in order to stop the
spread of infectious diseases within the hospital.
That is a huge concern as the next sort of phase of what is happening in these hospitals. And of course, there is concern around the ongoing IDF
raid. Now, as we know, the Israel Defense Forces, they are targeting Hamas, they believe there is a Hamas command and control center beneath the Al-
Shifa Hospital. They have said they have found evidence suggesting as much, including an operational tunnel shaft.
And as you mentioned, Julia, that has been denied by medical officials on the ground, and Hamas as well. But there are hundreds of patients inside
Al-Shifa, hundreds of medical staff and thousands of civilians who flocked to Al-Shifa to take shelter there, amid the continued bombardment of the
IDF on northern Gaza. Now, there have been calls for the safe evacuation of civilians, patients and medical staff.
We heard from the U.N. Humanitarian chief reiterating that urge, that plea for civilians to be allowed to move freely without risk of coming under
fire.
[14:05:00]
But of course, as we know, it is extremely difficult to move some of these patients, particularly those in intensive care and requiring life support.
We've heard those repeated pleas for specialized medical evacuations to southern Gaza. But there are also now fears and concerns that southern Gaza
will become the latest flash point.
As we know, airstrikes have been ongoing in southern Gaza. On Thursday, leaflets were reported to have dropped around neighborhoods on the eastern
side of the city of Khan Younis. These are neighborhoods which are close to the perimeter fence separating Israel and Gaza. Those leaflets are said to
be warning civilians to move to known shelters.
So there are concerns now that we could begin to see in the coming days and weeks, the Israeli ground incursion moving southwards. And as we know,
there are some 1.5 Palestinians inside Gaza who have already been displaced.
That's according to U.N. figures. The vast majority of them have moved southwards in areas which were designated as safe zones, but clearly, as
these airstrikes continue and with fears of a ground incursion spreading further southwards, the message that we are hearing from people on the
ground, the warning from the U.N.'s own humanitarian office, is that there are simply nowhere safe for civilians to turn.
And of course, as we know, hospitals have been deteriorating in the northern part of Gaza. Hospitals in southern Gaza are also under immense
pressure. And the situation is only expected to grow more dire, unless urgent humanitarian relief is able to get into Gaza on a regular basis.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, vital points, and the questions being asked too, Nada Bashir in Jerusalem for now, thank you. Let's talk more about this, Shaina
Low is a Communication Adviser for the Norwegian Refugee Council. One of her colleagues posted a picture on X of the leaflets that we were just
discussing, that the IDF has been dropping over parts of southern Gaza, asking where known shelters could be found.
Shaina, good to have you with us, I want to talk about your colleague, Youssef(ph), I believe is his name, and clearly, he is there and
understands the challenges of the situation. It's not -- I don't think that he doesn't know where those shelters are, the problem is the question of,
are they safe? And we know that there are more than overcapacity. Is it truly possible for them to move there and actually survive?
SHAINA LOW, COMMUNICATION ADVISER, NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL: I mean, the people of Gaza day after day are facing just impossible decisions. There
are -- well, there are designated shelters, they are by no means safe. As you mentioned, they're bursting at capacity. And so, for the 1.5 million
displaced Palestinians in Gaza, there simply is not space. We warned about this at the very beginning on October 13th when Israel made the
announcement that residents of northern Gaza and Gaza city needed to move south.
That there weren't facilities able to accommodate the influx of people. The reality is that there just simply aren't the resources available in the
south, we're already hearing reports about the spread of infectious diseases inside of shelters, difficulties finding food, clean water.
Really, what we need is a massive ramping up of the -- of the international aid that's been going in, but it's been a trickle so far.
And we need a ceasefire, we need to stop this bombardment, we need to stop the fighting because people can't even access aid, so long as -- so long as
the bombardment is ongoing. One final thing that I want to mention is that -- is that the south, while Palestinians over a month ago now were directed
to flee south, it is by no means safe, and it hasn't been safe since October 7th.
We ourselves have had colleagues be injured and lose members of their families in bombardments, in southern Gaza, including in Rafah right next
to the Egyptian border. There simply is no safe place in Gaza, and forcing people into even closer quarters is really an impossibility at this point.
CHATTERLEY: I want to pick up on that point, Shaina, because I believe one of the NRC's team members lost ten members of their extended family, and
they were all in the south. Can you talk to me about that, please?
LOW: Yes, so, this was our colleague, Amal(ph) who had -- it wasn't just to her extended family. She lost her father, she lost her brother, she lost
her brother's family, and she lost her seven-year-old son, Haled(ph), who was killed in that airstrike in Rafah a few weeks ago. She herself has been
injured and is still injured and recovering from her injuries as a result of this airstrike in Rafah.
It just proves that there is no safe place, not even for humanitarian aid workers to be seeking shelter with their families.
[14:10:00]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think that just illustrates the point that when leaflets are being dropped, suggesting that people move in different places
in the south, the difficulty of the decisions that have to be made over whether to move one's family or not. Can we talk about water, too, because
the United Nations is now talking about the weaponization of water.
And we've heard that over fuel, we've heard that over food, but specifically, in terms of the water capacity and what's available, even
just at the water plant in Khan Younis. And remember, we're talking about leaflets being dropped to the east of that. I mean, they're down to minimal
capacity there, too.
LOW: I believe the U.N. reported today that the desalination plant in Khan Younis is operating at 5 percent --
CHATTERLEY: Right --
LOW: Of its capacity. Most of the water in Gaza was unpotable. It wasn't safe for human consumption. And so what we're seeing now really is people
struggling to find water -- even two weeks ago, colleagues of mine, my colleague, Youssef(ph) who you mentioned his tweet earlier. He told me that
he was drinking cola because he couldn't find clean water that day to drink.
And so, imagine, two weeks later, with little to no aid going in, desalination plants having no fuel to operate, water pumps not being able
to operate because of lack of fuel. I mean, the -- people are going to start dying from dehydration, from starvation, and from the illnesses that
are being spread because of people being forced to drink unclean water.
CHATTERLEY: I fear that, that's going to be exacerbated by the changing weather, and I've looked at the pattern over the last couple of weeks, and
actually the weather's deteriorated quite dramatically in just the last week alone. And now we're seeing heavy rainfall as well. And that plays
into the concerns about waterborne diseases and just the challenges that people face staying warm. The lack of supplies, clothes, people obviously
left to move with very little.
LOW: Fifty percent of the housing in Gaza as of over ten days ago, ten days ago, I believe, according to the U.N. shelter cluster, has been
damaged or destroyed. And so, half of the housing available for people is not -- either not livable or damaged. And so what that means is that we
have tens of thousands of people exposed to the elements.
And you're right, it has gotten much cooler here, the rain has started. So we have people at risk of being exposed to the Winter elements. And also,
Gaza was prone to flooding even prior to the complete destruction of its infrastructure. And so when you have untreated sewage spreading, and being
spread because of flooding, you're -- tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of displaced people are being put at risk.
We saw today, that the -- that the head of Israel's war cabinet said that they wanted to allow two trucks worth of fuel in to help with sewage
treatment. Because he said if there was a plague, we can no longer wage war. Well, we need there to be no war being waged. It shouldn't be coming
to this, that people are getting sewage treatment in order to prevent the spread of disease so that soldiers can continue killing innocent civilians.
We need to put an end to this now.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a heartbreaking thought, beyond heartbreaking. You, like everyone else, Shaina, I think are watching what is found at the Al-
Shifa Hospital. And of course, the IDF has said that they believe some kind of Hamas command center is housed in that, and obviously, I'll make it very
clear to our audience, CNN cannot verify anything that's already been found or will be found at this stage.
Do you think if something significant like that is found in any way justify the actions that have been taken in order to find it?
LOW: You know, it's up to the -- to the international and independent international investigation to determine the lawfulness. But from what
we're seeing now, and the evidence that has been presented now, it appears that the attacks on the hospital, the raids on the hospital, the cutting of
electricity and supplies to the hospital was not warranted by the limited amount of arms that have been shown thus far.
It's -- I mean, it's absolutely -- medical, the facilities, doctors, patients are afforded special protections under international humanitarian
law. And those protections may be compromised in the event that the facilities are not being -- are not being used purely to treat civilians if
they're being used for nefarious reasons. But at the same time, they need the international humanitarian legal principles of military necessity, and
then of course, distinction proportionality and precautions still apply.
And from what we've seen thus far, it really does not appear that Israel has adhered to international humanitarian law when targeting these hospital
facilities.
CHATTERLEY: Shaina Low, thank you for the work that you and all your colleagues are doing. We appreciate your time today. Shaina Low there from
the Norwegian Refugee Council.
[14:15:00]
OK, Oren Liebermann joins us now from Tel Aviv. Oren, I know you were listening to that, and I do want to continue that conversation. Hamas of
course have denied all claims tied to the Al-Shifa Hospital. They've called them baseless lies just to be specific, and again, I'll reiterate that CNN
can't verify the claims of either side at this stage.
But the Israeli military hasn't yet shown us concrete evidence of some formalized concrete command center for Hamas there. And that clearly has to
be the focus of their operations to justify the necessity of what's been done up to now and what's still to be done.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: And that absolutely where it is that they are focusing their efforts. The discovery of the tunnel shaft,
we have geolocated that to the Al-Shifa Hospital complex itself. But of course, the question is, what's on the other side or the inside of that
tunnel shaft? How deep does it go? It's impossible to tell what it's used for.
That's what we would need to see either with our own eyes going in or some sort of video evidence, photographic evidence from the IDF to know that it
is what they have said all along is there, and that is, Hamas, what they have called terror infrastructure underneath the hospital. Now, they do
have the backing of the U.S. which has said it has its own intelligence that shows Hamas uses the area underneath the hospital for its own
purposes, for its own centers, its own complex with a hospital on top, providing them -- or believing it provided them some sort of safety.
But the burden very much on Israel now, they had a briefing a short time ago with the IDF, there is no new evidence presented, they say it will take
time. They haven't really gone into the tunnels too much. They have tried to destroy tunnel shafts, but they also know that going into the tunnels is
going to a place where Hamas has the advantage.
Still, it's on Israel to prove what's down there. And it is very much a black and white question. There either is a Hamas complex down there or
there isn't. There really isn't a spectrum here and Israel has to show where on the -- where that -- where that stands. Is there a Hamas network
down there?
CHATTERLEY: Certainly. And can I ask you about the leaflet drop. There are four communities to the east of Khan Younis as well. Have we seen any step-
up in activity so far? I mean, the assumption is that some point soon, that's coming.
LIEBERMANN: So far, we have seen the leaflets dropped in the areas east or southeast of Khan Younis there. But we haven't seen, at least, not
according to the IDF or according to Palestinian reports, Israeli military activity in that area. Still, the dropping of the leaflets as we saw at
first in northern Gaza, is a very strong indication of where Israel's campaign on the ground is going.
The Israel Defense -- Israeli Defense Minister said a few days ago that the operation isn't limited to the north, it will also move into the south and
go after Hamas wherever they believe Hamas is. So, the dropping of the leaflets is a strong indication that, that's the direction where Israel's
ground operation in Gaza will go.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and we'll be watching. Oren Liebermann for now, thank you. OK, still to come tonight, deadly new fighting in Ukraine as Ukrainian
marines report a breakthrough. We've got the details after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. The U.N.'s Refugee Agency says it's gravely concerned about escalating violence in Sudan's Darfur region. In recent
weeks, armed groups aligned with the paramilitary RSF have reportedly killed more than 700 people in western Sudan. The U.N. says reports of
sexual violence, torture, and the targeting of specific ethnic groups are deeply alarming.
Hundreds of thousands of people have fled to neighboring Chad since the beginning of the war. Nima Elbagir and her team have spoken with refugees
in Chad who detailed horrific cruelty. Some describing systematic rape and being quote, "sold like cattle". A warning, the images and the content of
Nima's report are both graphic and disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): A scene all too familiar in West Darfur. Social media footage widely circulated last week showing RSF soldiers and supporting militia
rounding up men.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
ELBAGIR: Harassing, threatening. CNN has been able to geolocate these videos, placing them in Ardamata; an outline district of El Geneina, the
capital of West Darfur where some of the worst atrocities during the recent war have taken place. Over the last year during the war in Sudan, the RSF
have targeted members of African tribal groups, including the Masalit, who claim Darfur as their ancestral land.
Many of the RSF belong to tribes which unlike the Masalit claim Arab ancestry. What we are about to show you is very disturbing. These are the
most recent images emerging from Darfur. What you are looking at is a mass grave filled with over a dozen bodies, some are alive, others clearly dead.
One man can be seen throwing earth on top of another even though he is still alive. A man off camera can be heard shouting as someone appears from
beneath a pile of dirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
ELBAGIR: He quickly buries his head back into the earth. We don't know the fate of these men. It's also unclear whether the men seen in the ditch are
the same men as those in the video running from RSF soldiers and militia loyal to the RSF. But it does illustrate the newest, most horrific pattern
of violence in the region.
Communication in Darfur has been deliberately choked by the RSF. It's been excruciatingly hard to understand exactly what's happening there. A few
months ago, we travelled to a refugee camp in Adre, Chad, where survivors and eyewitnesses of these brutal attacks were able to cross the border. One
by one, brave survivors came forward wanting to share, to document what has happened to them. Describing the horrors from the city of El Geneina,
stories of rape and enslavement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): From within our family, we lost more than 40 men. They said to my father, we're going to rape your daughter
in front of you. The RSF said, leave these ones, we will find better ones to sell. These ones, let's rape them.
ELBAGIR: Textbook ethnic cleansing. These are the hallmarks of genocide. CNN interviewed over a dozen survivors and eyewitnesses in El Geneina where
civilians were targeted and where women were being sold from slave houses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): There were RSF soldiers outside and they beat me until they forced me into the building. Inside, I saw nine
or ten girls, some without clothes.
ELBAGIR (on camera): (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They told us they would sell us very cheaply. They said we killed all the men, we will not leave any black skin here. You have
to leave. Get out. They said they will be the only ones to sleep with us, because if we have our own children, our sons will one day take revenge.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): She managed to escape, but was recaptured and brought to a different location where she was repeatedly raped.
[14:25:00]
But it's not just women being affected, Mahadi(ph), who is only 16 was kidnapped by the RSF with his brother and forced to work at a farm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
ELBAGIR (on camera): (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(voice-over): The word "slave" in Arabic is a racial slur, equivalent to the N-word. So, we're bleeping it out in his testimony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
ELBAGIR: Mahadi(ph) doesn't know how much they bought him for, but he was eventually taken to another location where he was forced to work. He says
his brother taken at the same time was killed by the RSF. Survivor after survivor told CNN how the RSF spoke of wiping out the African descendant,
Masalit.
It's Masalit ancestral land in Darfur that the RSF are currently occupying. Part of a fertile land mass that the commander of the RSF has been
strategically looking to secure for the last 20 years, changing the demographics from African to Arab. Nima Elbagir, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And you can watch Nima's full report "ON THE WHOLE STORY", "GOING HOME: THE WAR IN SUDAN", it airs on Sunday night at 9:00 Eastern
Time in the United States. We'll be right back after this break. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: You are looking at live pictures of leaders from across the Pacific meeting for the final day at the APEC Summit in California.
President Biden now speaking. Let's listen in to what he has to say at the close.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Resilient and sustainable economies for the Asian Pacific. And we talked about the progress that
requires partnership. Together we laid out the work will be undertaking to avert the worst impacts of the climate crisis. The U.S. companies have
announced more than $500 billion in investments into APEC economies to build new subsea cables, decarbonizing energy grids, and complete the
largest U.S. airline expansion into the South Pacific in our history. Alongside, 13 of our APEC partners also made historic progress yesterday
when the Indo-Pacific economic framework with the first of its kind agreements to strengthen supply chains, accelerate our clean energy
transition, and combat corruption.
As we begin our discussions today, I want to highlight a few areas that I believe we can do even more, in my view. First, inclusive growth. When
everyone in our economies has a chance to contribute, everyone gets a fair shot, we're all -- we all do better. So, today, I'm proud to announce that
we've launched the Women in the Sustainable Economy initiative.
Partners in this initiative have already pledged more than $900 million -- $900 million to increase women's participation in blue and green industries
like forest management, clean energy, fisheries, and recycling. And if you wonder why I'm so enthusiastic about those, I got more women in my cabinet
than men, so I've got to get this straight. All kidding aside, I think this is a very important initiative. Including by creating the first-ever
facility dedicated to helping women and -- women-led businesses and organizations in developing countries to gain access to climate and
finance.
We're also supporting programs that expand access to STEM education to address laws that limit women's equal access to land and natural resources.
And we plan to invest in young women entrepreneurs in the maritime sector and to scale up these projects as well. I challenge us all to find new ways
we can seize the full potential of all of our people.
Secondly, interconnected growth and technology. We're going to see more technological change in the next 10 years than we've seen in the last 50
years. I don't think that's hyperbole. I think if you're going to -- we're going to --see that change so rapidly. And together, we have to make sure
it changes for the better. Matter of fact, the -- Xi Jinping of China and I had a brief discussion about the impact of artificial intelligence and how
we have to work on it.
Together, we must ensure the changes for the better. We must ensure that the digital technologies like artificial intelligence are used to uplift,
not limit, the potential of our people. And that's why earlier this summer, the United States brought together leading AI companies who agreed to
voluntary commit -- voluntary commitments to keep AI systems safe and trustworthy, including the following.
Committee to independently test and secure the security of their AI systems before these systems are released to the public. Two. Committee to
watermark content that is AI generated so people know it's been generated by artificial intelligence. Committee to prioritize and minimize the risks
that AI systems can pose to society like promoting bias or discrimination.
Just last month, I signed an executive order here in the States to set new AI standards for public and private sectors in the United States, such as
requiring developers of the most powerful AI system to share their safety test results with the U.S. government. This is in the U.S. Strengthen
technologies to protect our privacy and preventing employees from using AI to exploit their workers -- employers from using AI to exploit their
workers. We're also expanding grants for AI research in key areas like health care and climate change that have great potential.
[14:35:01]
But this is a shared challenge and requires shared solutions. And I would respectfully suggest all of us around this table have a responsibility to
work together to seize the opportunities, and manage the risk of this technology, which are so critical to our collective economic futures. And
finally, as I said yesterday, America's commitment to the Asia Pacific is unwavering. And in our view, from America's perspective essential.
I know -- I know, president -- excuse me, I know President Boluarte is -- shares his commitment. And I want -- I want you to know next year when the
APEC summit host Peru will help drive these economies forward. We will be hanging out in Peru. The views are going to be nice too.
Well, so, as we began our discussion, I'd like to take a moment to pass a ceremonial torch from the United States to Peru. Madam President, thank
you. And the floor is yours.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: We will leave the U.S. President Joe Biden there speaking at the conclusion of that APEC Summit for 2023. We are treating the United
States' ongoing and unwavering, "commitment to the Asia Pacific Region." Get my teeth in.
He was talking about the impact and the work together on tackling climate change to accelerate the impact of the green energy transition. He talked
about the completion of the largest airline expansion across Asia Pacific in the United States history, where more work could be done. He pointed to
inclusive growth, including the announcement of a $900 million investment to increase female participation in blue and green industries across the
region. Spent some time promoting the work of the United States towards artificial intelligence and the healthy growth of artificial intelligence
and being aware of the danger and that those in the room perhaps could do more work on that.
It's the summation of a meeting that involves him also holding talks with his Mexican counterpart today too, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador. This is
after both leaders met with Chinese President Xi Jinping earlier this week too. Presidents Biden and Xi agreeing to work closely on curbing the supply
of chemicals used to make fentanyl. The United States says much of the deadly opioid reaching the United States is made in Mexico with the help of
Chinese suppliers. President Lopez Obrador says he wants to stop fentanyl production too, but of course, immigration is also on the agenda for the
United States and Mexican leaders.
David Culver is in San Francisco. He's been covering this meeting. But, David, if you don't mind, I do want to hone in on the meeting between the
Mexican President and the U.S. President. And let's talk about the border.
I know, Mexico and the United States agreed back in I think, September of this year that Mexico would try and shift people on those border cities
back to the country and try and curb some of the increased flow that we've seen. Sure, the success of that before up for discussion today. And what
more can be done?
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a huge issue, Julia, when you look at not only how it's impacting the U.S., but also how
it's impacting Mexico, and that's why you have President Lopez Obrador. Part of these discussions trying to figure out, OK, we need to work with
regional partners. It's not just the U.S. and Mexico, but south of that too, to trying to figure out who else in Latin America can help in a -- in
a regional approach figure out how to stem this flow of migration, which we see go up and down in numbers.
And I think that's a difficult indicator too. Because oftentimes, we'll look at one-month numbers and say, oh, they're down, perhaps the flow with
because of policies slowing down and it's successful. And then you look at another month, and it'll be sharply up. You have to take a step back from
that. I've talked with U.S. officials who describe this as not so much a tidal wave of migration, but a rising of sea level water if you will. So,
it's just a crisis that's only intensifying.
I spent some time recently in San Diego County with U.S. landowners who have property right on the border. And spent the night with them. And we
saw dozens if not, one day, hundreds of people crossing into their private property. And it's interesting.
We've seen a shift in the past six months that people are no longer crossing over illegally and then running from law enforcement. But they're
running to them, Julia, because they know that the process now is to be processed. Many of them are under claims of asylum.
And it's just a massive backlog to allow them eventually be released, and then a wait what could be months or years away of a court date, and that
gives them time in the U.S. And so, it's an issue that Mexico is very much involved with as well. Because as I've spent time not only on the border
but also in Mexico City, 500 miles south of the U.S. border, and in Tapachula, on the border with Guatemala and you see these cities are
dealing with an encampment of migrants as well.
[14:40:01]
And it's folks, not just from Latin America, I should tell you, Julia, but we found one group. And every single one of them was from a different
country, not in Latin America. There are about two dozen people in one encampment. And I went around asking them where they were from, and we
heard Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Turkey, China, everywhere but Latin America in that one group. So, it shows you just how much of an international
crisis this is.
CHATTERLEY: As always, David, you have a fantastic way of making stories like this human just that idea of rather than being afraid of officials or
actually running towards them, in this case, in the hope of even for just some time --
CULVER: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: Being able to stay across the border. And to your point, not -- these people are not coming from Latin America. They've come from beyond.
CULVER: Right.
CHATTERLEY: I wish we had time to talk, but we don't. David, great to have you. Thank you. David Culver.
CULVER: Thanks, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. SpaceX is postponing the launch of the world's most powerful rocket, but don't panic, hopefully just until Saturday. CEO
Elon Musk posted on social media that a piece of the Starship's flight control hardware needed to be replaced. It will be the second attempt to
send the mega-rocket into orbit. If you remember, the first attempt back in April, the rocket exploded four minutes after lifting off from Texas. It's
hoped the rocket will eventually put humans on Mars for the first time.
Space and defense correspondent Kristin Fisher joins us now from Texas. Never mind Mars. We need -- NASA needs it for the moon in 2025. Kristin,
how are we looking? What are we thinking about this?
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE & DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the rocket is fully stacked. Meaning, it is in its flight configuration. And it was not
like that this morning, Julia. So, that's a very good sign.
You mentioned that flight hardware that needs to be fixed. It's got a very technical term called the grid-thin actuator. And it's a little piece on
the rocket that needs to be there to help steer the booster, the bottom part of the rocket, back down to earth.
And so, it appears as though they fixed that, but we do not have official confirmation from the company. But as of now, when the rocket is looking
like that fully stacked, it appears that as, of now at least, all systems are go for an 8:00 a.m. Eastern Time launch tomorrow morning. Expect these
beaches and the water behind me to be absolutely filled with people.
And you know, Julia, you were referencing what happened during that first flight attempt back in April. A huge explosion, right? That explosion
completely destroyed the launch pad, sending huge chunks of debris into the surrounding wetlands and shorelines.
[14:45:08]
Part of the deal that SpaceX has made with the FAA and the Fish and Wildlife Service is they have revamped and rebuilt that launch pad. There's
now going to be hundreds of thousands of gallons of water rushing onto the launch pad to protect it from the heat of those 33 engines that are going
to be igniting at liftoff. They've also made some changes to what exactly is going to happen once this rocket lifts off. When the two stages
separate, they're going to have that top stage -- the engines on the top stage are going to ignite earlier in hopes that that will keep it from not
separating and exploding, which is what happened last time.
But you know, Julia, so many people watching this. SpaceX engineers are watching really closely to see if these design changes have fixed the
problems that they encountered, that engine failure during the first flight test. Then you have fish and wildlife and the FAA watching for any new
safety violations or environmental hazards.
And then, finally, as you mentioned, NASA. I mean, NASA needs this rocket in order to land American astronauts back on the moon for the first time in
50 years. And the NASA administrator has been very vocal in saying that if this rocket does not fly fairly soon, then China could beat the American
space agency back to the moon.
So, that's what's at stake here. But -- I mean for spectators it is just a really cool sight to see. The most powerful rocket ever built is now just a
few hours away, hopefully, from lifting off.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, absolutely. And the hard hats are on as well. I remember that debris that rained down over South Texas and the wildlife groups in
particular went wild.
FISHER: I know.
CHATTERLEY: So, keep a fair distance, Kristin, and fingers crossed that it takes off, it is a successful flight. Kristin Fisher there from Texas,
thank you so much for joining us.
OK, the presidential campaign in Argentina may give us a peek inside the future of politics. Artificial Intelligence is being used in campaign
commercials and in ads. Stefano Pozzebon takes a look at some of the issues surrounding that emerging technology.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN REPORTER (voiceover): A finance minister running on the beach at the rhythm of chariots of fire while his opponent dresses him
like a Far East leader. Welcome to the presidential election of Argentina where artificial intelligence has opened new communication tools for
political teams who are trying to spread their message and gain voters online. Supporters of both candidates running to become the next president
these Sunday have used AI to the point that The New York Times wonders whether Argentina's is the first AI election of our times.
HENRY AJDER, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE EXPERT: The Argentinian elections have shown one of these cases which isn't perhaps the one that people feared
most. But it is one that raises some interesting questions about the role of AI in political communications. And whether they should be doing this
kind of stuff even if it's clearly fake, and it's not intended to fool people. You could swap faces click by click using an editing tool. Cloning
someone's voice though, to make them say things they've never said, unless you've got the best impersonator on the planet in your office, that's
obviously something that AI has really opened up.
POZZEBON (voiceover): New research this week from Stanford University and the University of Chicago warns that AI could play a transformative role in
the U.S. presidential election next year. In particular, for deceptive relisted content called Deep Fakes. While Argentina has not experienced
widespread use of deceptive AI technology, experts believe it will serve as a testing ground for how effective AI is to swing voters' intentions and
how the technology will be used in the future.
The contest is closely watched around the region because it paints a far- right disruptor Javier Milei against the finance minister and career politician Sergio Massa. A win for Milei could mean a change of momentum
for conservatives worldwide and decisively move Argentina to the right. Another way this election could transform Argentina for good will be on the
ballot on Sunday.
Right-wing candidate Javier Milei pledging to dollarize South America's second-largest economy and shut down the central bank. Argentina is once
again battling record-high inflation and struggling to repay international debtors. And the plan to switch currency has generated a debate among
economic think tanks. The Cato Institute, for example, considers it the fastest way to achieve the reforms Argentina so desperately needs.
JAVIER MILEI, ARGENTINE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through a translator): The choice is between inflation and stability between decadence and growth.
POZZEBON (voiceover): He's appointing, Massa, proposing instead a national unity of government to respond to economic challenges.
[14:50:01]
SERGIO MASSA, ARGENTINE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through a translator): A big change for Argentina. Let's build a great agreement through bilateral
policies through dialogue and accords.
POZZEBON (voiceover): Facing the worst economic crisis of the last 20 years, both men claiming to be the best person to look after the nation's
finances. Saying that through artificial intelligence or just common sense, it's the economy that wins the elections.
Stefano Pozzebon, CNN, Bogota.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: OK. We'll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. All this week, we've been exploring Japan off the beaten path as part of our new travel series "NEXT BIG TRIP." And today,
we're rounding out the week with a world-renowned chef who makes a Japanese lasagna dish you have to see to believe. Will Ripley has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): We've traveled north of Japan's main Honshu Island to Toyama. With 500 species of
fish, some of the richest fishing grounds in Japan.
RIPLEY: It's bright and early here in Toyama, and I'm about to meet an internationally renowned chef who is going to show us from the source how
he prepares some of the world's freshest seafood.
RIPLEY (voiceover): It's red snow crab season, where chefs and restaurant tourists from around the region come to bid. Chef Ito is really here to
sample a particular local delicacy, what he calls the Jewel of Toyama. White shrimp fresh off the Boat.
RIPLEY: OK. You're going to eat it.
ITO, CHEF: Yes.
RIPLEY: A very fresh sushi. About as fresh as you can get, I guess.
ITO (through a translator): I think it's great to be able to see how the ingredients are grown and how they're delivered to us.
RIPLEY (voiceover): To my delight, Chef Ito invited us to taste some of those dishes, experience his fine dining take on today's catch in a rural
area known as Tonami Plain in Western Toyama. His posh restaurant, Il Clima, in a 200-year-old Japanese farmhouse. It's modern Italian fare on
the menu here, but ingredients are local, and the menu changes every season. First up, lasagna.
[14:55:00]
RIPLEY: Thank you. This is certainly different than any lasagna I've ever seen before. Let's taste it.
RIPLEY (voiceover): Ito was born in Osaka, trained in Europe. I want to know why he's chosen to cook in a small real con in Western Toyama.
RIPLEY: What do you call it -- (INAUDIBLE)
ITO (through a translator): Now, for the pasta dish, Tuna Rillettes. We use homemade noodles. And the sauce is made with white shrimp. It's the shrimp
that we bid for earlier today.
RIPLEY: Is that why you chose to come here? With all of your international experience, you wanted to come, and you wanted to create this special
restaurant right here.
ITO (through a translator): The proximity to the ocean is a unique feature of this area. The ocean in the mountains are close by and the fishing port
is close by. So, good ingredients are gathered here and are quiet.
Also, there are a lot of farmers around here. And I'd say they're kind and open. They're really helpful to me, giving me all sorts of opinions and
teaching me how to use them. It's really a fun place to be.
RIPLEY (voiceover): Will Ripley, CNN, Toyama Prefecture, Japan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: It's really hungry. Thanks for watching tonight. Stay with CNN. I'll be back after this short break with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
