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Isa Soares Tonight
Top Russian General Killed In Moscow; Hamas: Ceasefire-Hostage Deal Possible After Doha Talks; More Than 50 Men Accused Of Raping Gisele Pelicot After Her Husband Allegedly Drugged Her Repeatedly And Left Her Unconscious; Wisconsin Shooter's Motive A Combination Of Factors; Foreign Dignitaries Line Up To Meet Syria's New Rulers; Syrian Uncovers More Horrors from Assad Regime. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 17, 2024 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, killed in broad daylight. Kyiv claims it
was behind the bombing that killed a top Russian General in Moscow. Today, we have the very latest for you. Also ahead, Hamas says a ceasefire hostage
deal in Gaza is, quote, "possible" following serious and positive discussions in the Qatari capital of Doha.
We'll get you the very latest. And more than 50 men are accused of raping Gisele Pelicot after her husband, Dominique Pelicot, allegedly drugged her
repeatedly and left her unconscious. CNN has an inside look at the police report of the alleged abusers. Do stay with us for those stunning findings.
We begin tonight, though, about 4 miles or so, as you're seeing here on the map from the Kremlin, where a high-ranking Russian General wanted by
Ukraine was killed by remotely detonated bomb. Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov was killed by an explosive device, 300 grams or so of TNT, which
was planted in an electronic -- electric, just say scooter.
His assistant, we were told, also killed in that same blast. This is a man we're talking about. Kirillov was wanted by Kyiv for allegedly using
chemical ammunitions on the battlefields of Ukraine. And this, of course, the latest development in the nearly three-year conflict with Ukraine,
which has escalated, as we've been reporting here in recent months.
You may remember what we're showing you right now on your screen. That's Ukrainian drones targeting Moscow, this was back in November. Those drones
shot in three different regions, Domodedovo, Ramenskoye and Kolomna. And you can see all of these were just outside of Moscow, but very close once
again to the Kremlin. Our Fred Pleitgen has more now from Russia's capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of Russia's top Generals and an aide just seconds before the fatal blast.
We're not showing the moment of the explosion in this video obtained by CNN.
(on camera): Russian investigators say the bomb, with about 300 grams of TNT was hidden in an electric scooter parked just outside the entrance of
that building, as the General and an aide walked out, it blew up, killing them both.
(voice-over): Russian investigators say the device was detonated remotely. The blast so powerful, it shattered windows several floors up in buildings
across the street.
"At first, we thought that cement might have been unloaded or something similar", this resident says, "but the blast was so loud, it did not seem
like construction work. It was very scary." Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov was the head of Russia's nuclear, chemical and biological defense
forces, often accusing Kyiv of planning to use chemicals on the battlefield.
The Ukrainians, for their part, accused Kirillov of overseeing the use of chemical substances against their forces and have claimed responsibility
for assassinating him, calling the General, quote, "an absolutely legitimate target", and saying such an inglorious end awaits all those who
kill Ukrainians.
The General is not the first, but the highest ranking Russian military official that Ukrainians claim to have assassinated. Moscow, furious,
launching both a terrorism and a criminal investigation. "Investigative actions and operational search activities are being carried out, aimed at
establishing all the circumstances of the crime committed", the spokesperson said.
Asymmetric warfare like this brazen drone attack inside Russia two days ago, is how the Ukrainian forces are trying to level the battlefield as
Vladimir Putin's army has been making significant gains on nearly all front lines. The Lieutenant General's assassination comes just hours after Putin
met with his top military brass, ripping into the Biden administration for its support of Ukraine.
"In an effort to weaken our country and impose a strategic defeat on us, the United States continues to pump the virtually illegitimate ruling
regime in Kyiv, full of weapons and money, sends mercenaries and military advisors, and thereby encourages further escalation of the conflict", Putin
said.
[14:05:00]
And Russian politicians have vowed revenge for the General's killing while acknowledging his death is a major loss. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, let's get more on this story. I'm joined now by Jill Dougherty. Jill is an adjunct Professor at Georgetown University's Center
for Eurasian, Russian and East European Studies. She's also a former CNN Moscow bureau chief. Jill, great to see you. Great to have you on the show.
Let me just pick up then where Fred Pleitgen has clearly laid out all the facts for us.
This is clearly an ambitious attack as we showed our viewers about just at the top of the show, very close to the Kremlin. And now, we understand from
a source telling CNN that Ukraine's security services were behind the General's assassination. How will this, do you think play out in Moscow?
Fred was talking how furious they were.
JILL DOUGHERTY, ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY'S CENTER FOR EURASIAN, RUSSIAN & EAST EUROPEAN STUDIES: They are. So, the person who
most quickly came to the fore is a former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. And he said, you know, we have to destroy -- was the word that he
used, the people who ordered this attack, who are in Kyiv.
And he also said it's not only military, but it's political leadership. So, you can bet that they are going to try to do something, unclear exactly
what, but it seems very personal. So, you know, it could be the same thing that they've been doing for quite a while. Attacks on infrastructure, et
cetera or it could be something else, but it is, I think, particularly galling for the Russians because not only did the Ukrainians, we believe
killed this General, but they did it, you know, in Moscow.
SOARES: Yes --
DOUGHERTY: And he was very high-ranking, as we said, the highest ranking killed outside of the battlefield since the major invasion in 2022. So,
it's a big blow and they are furious.
SOARES: And you mentioned Medvedev, I think it's important, he was talking about revenge. I want to play that so our viewers can listen to this. Have
a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DMITRY MEDVEDEV, DEPUTY CHAIRMAN, RUSSIA'S SECURITY COUNCIL (through translator): Despite the fact that the investigation has just begun, our
enemies have already rushed to publish information about their involvement. In any case, the investigators must find the killers in Russia, and we must
do everything to destroy the patrons who are in Kyiv.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, no doubt unsettling I imagine, for those inside the Kremlin and for other Generals. But imagine also for Moscovites, for whom, of course,
the war has felt like very distant, right? The -- looks like a country -- they're living in a country at war.
DOUGHERTY: Yes, and that could be another reason why the Ukrainians wanted to do it. After all --
SOARES: Yes --
DOUGHERTY: Remember going back, they've been -- since the major invasion in 2022, they've been hitting Moscow with drones and other attacks. And if you
look back, they're actually -- at least, I counted at least four pretty major assassinations in Moscow or in Russia of, you know, Russians by the
Ukrainians that had political ramifications and sometimes military.
So, I think Ukraine again, if that is who did it, even though there's almost no question they did. They want to send several messages, you know,
military message, which is to eliminate this man. And then also, a political, you know, psychological message to Russians, we can essentially
do what we want and we can strike even in the Russian capital.
SOARES: Let me just ask you, Jill, about the General. We know he was wanted by Ukraine, but do we know about the claims about his use of chemical
weapons in Ukraine and just how credible those are?
DOUGHERTY: Well, if you look at the sanctions that the United States, Canada and the U.K. issued against him, I believe it was the British -- the
Brits who said he was using barbaric chemicals. And the chemical, by the way, is this chloropicrin. And it's -- it actually goes back to World War
I, and it essentially makes people just, you know, unable to breathe.
And the U.S., U.K. and Canada say that they -- that the Russians used it to pull Ukrainians out of -- let's say, you know, fox holes, et cetera, and
make it impossible to breathe and then kill them. So, it's particularly, you know, horrendous, and that, of course, the Russians who are saying it
is not true. But there was another side, I should very quickly mention.
Kirillov not only was a General, but he also did a lot of psychological warfare, you know, denying that Russia had any intent to use any chemical
weapons, et cetera. But he also accused the United States of creating COVID, of creating Mpox, monkeypox, and other things. So, he was a prime
target, you'd have to say, for the Ukrainians.
[14:10:00]
SOARES: Yes, and the -- and the Brits said back then, the U.K. Foreign Office, besides saying that he -- they deployed barbaric weapons, also
accused him of being quote, I'm quoting here, "a significant mouthpiece for Kremlin disinformation and spreading lies to mask Russia's shameful and
dangerous behavior." As always, Jill, always appreciate your analysis and your insight. Thank you, Jill, good to see you.
Now, Israel is solidifying its grip on a strategic mountain top inside Syria that it seized after the fall of Bashar al-Assad. Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu visited Mount Hermon today, we can see that, which lies within a buffer zone. He was joined by Israel's Defense Minister, who says
Israeli troops have been instructed to build fortifications and defenses there in case of a, quote, "prolonged stay".
Meantime, hopes are growing that after more than a year of war in Gaza, a ceasefire could be closer than ever. Hamas' positive as well as optimistic
discussions are underway in Doha, that could lead to a ceasefire as well as hostage agreement. But it says Israel continues to impose new conditions,
an Israeli source tells CNN, a deal is still potentially weeks away.
While a White House spokesman says the U.S. is cautiously optimistic about the chances for a ceasefire, stressing we've been here before, but never
got over the finish line. Our Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem with the very latest for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, Hamas now becomes the latest party to these negotiations to express some optimism
about the prospects of reaching a ceasefire and hostage release deal. We have heard optimistic comments over the course of the last week from U.S.,
Israeli, Qatari and Egyptian officials, and now Hamas is joining the fray.
But as with the others who are expressing optimism, Hamas is also adding a note of caution to their comments. In their statement, they are making
clear that, quote, "Hamas affirms that in light of the serious and positive discussions taking place in Doha today under the auspices of our Qatari and
Egyptian brothers, reaching an agreement for a ceasefire and prisoner exchange is possible if the occupation stops imposing new conditions."
And that if is indeed that note of caution that they are raising, suggesting that Israeli negotiators are making additional demands as this
negotiating process moves forward. A second Hamas source said that they view the current state of negotiations as quote, "positive and optimistic".
And it is important to note that amid this optimism, we are also seeing a flurry of diplomatic activity in the region. The U.S. National Security
adviser, Jake Sullivan, just last week traveled to Israel, Egypt and Qatar to try and advance a deal. He said he hopes that he can put the conditions
in place to reach a deal within the next month.
And that is indeed the target here, appears to be to try and reach a deal before President Biden leaves office on January 20th, and President-elect
Trump will then be inaugurated. And we know, of course, that the Biden administration has also been closely coordinating with the Trump
administration over this deal as incoming Trump advisors have also been traveling to the region and coordinating closely with the officials who
they will soon be replacing.
It is important to caution, though, that as we are seeing this momentum, as we are seeing this optimistic language, the reason why we are also hearing
notes of caution from all of the parties involved is because we have been this close in the past. We have been very close to a deal and ultimately
talks have collapsed, and that possibility still very much looms.
But Israeli and American officials who I've spoken to have pointed to a new set of conditions in the region in terms of Hamas being increasingly
isolated, Israel having accomplished a slew of military achievements in Gaza, including the killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, that might make
them more willing to reach a deal now.
All of this pointing us in the direction of a potential ceasefire and hostage deal. But again, the deal isn't reached until it's done.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: That was Jeremy Diamond there reporting, joined now by Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli Consul General in New York. Alon, great to see you. Before
we start, I just want to give you and our viewers a heads up, we are expecting to see in the screen to hear from the police an update on the
shooting that we saw yesterday in a school in Wisconsin.
Apologies if I have to interrupt as you're talking. But let me pick up where Jeremy Diamond left off, then there's this cautious optimism. Hamas
seems to be -- possible positive discussions in Qatar. The atmosphere is positive and optimistic. How close are we to a deal? Because we have been
here before, right?
ALON PINKAS, WRITER & FORMER ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL TO NEW YORK: Absolutely. Look, the war in Gaza, for all intents and purposes, Isa, ended
6 or 7 months ago. It was prolonged deliberately and artificially by Mr. Netanyahu.
[14:15:00]
And at some point, 3 or 4 months ago, he decided to even further prolong it, to converge with what he had hoped, and in fact, materialize would be a
Donald Trump win in the presidential election. On the other hand, there have been events in the region, a ceasefire with Hezbollah, which is
holding, not a 100 percent, but 90 percent holding.
And the sudden black swan event collapse of Assad, the Assad regime in Syria, and that all put some urgency into this because it's pointless not
to do this, on top of which, Isa, President-elect Trump has clarified publicly, I don't know what he's doing privately in his conversations with
Mr. Netanyahu, but publicly, he two or three times said that he wants this wrapped up and done before he enters office.
So, given all these circumstances and conditions, now there is a plethora of rumors on how this is going to look like. The 45-day ceasefire, a
partial, not a full, a partial return of hostages, women, elderly, and those who are sick or are in a severe medical condition. An Israeli
redeployment in certain areas, but not an Israeli withdrawal --
SOARES: Alon, I'm sure -- I'm sorry to interrupt, I'm sorry. I'm just going to pause here, I'm going to listen to the police presser. Thank you, Alon,
let's listen in.
SHON BARNES, POLICE CHIEF, MADISON, WISCONSIN: Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon, everyone!
CROWD: Good afternoon.
BARNES: Thank you for coming. Thank you for being here today. We will -- we'll be providing an additional update as we have moved now into the
investigation phase of this tragic incident, I'll be making some prepared remarks, and we'll not be taking questions. My name is Chief Shon Barnes,
S-h-o-n B-a-r-n-e-s, and I'm the chief of police for the Madison Police Department.
The past 24 hours have been a flurry of emotion, sadness, anger, disappointment, grief for the Madison community. We were brought together
by our tragedy. And today, three families woke up this morning to a world without a loved one. And that can never be outdone. In the midst of this
tragedy, our community has come together in an incredible demonstration of support from Madison and indeed the state of Wisconsin and our nation.
I cannot express enough gratitude to the many emergency response agencies who provided direct support to the Madison Police Department. We could not
be standing here today without the men and women of law enforcement, specifically the Madison Fire Department, surrounding EMS agencies, Dane
County, Sheriff's Office, Monona PD, Oregon PD, the University of Wisconsin Police Department, the ATF, the FBI, Fitchburg Police Department and
Cottage Grove.
A special thank you from me to all of these agencies. Thank you so much. These agencies and many others responded to the scene, and/or, took calls
for service within the city of Madison to allow us to focus on this tragic incident. Student reunification with their loved ones could not have
happened as swiftly as it did without the assistance of SSM Health Dean Medical Clinic, as well as the QuikTrip.
Additionally, many people work well into the night and supported local restaurants and community who came together and provided food and other
logistical support for our team. Yesterday, we came together as one team, as one Madison, as one country, and we should feel incredibly proud about
our response.
I'll be providing some updates at this time, but before I do that, I'd like to provide an important clarification. Yesterday, after looking at the
computer-aided dispatch system, it seems as if a call came from a second grader. It actually read the call came from a second grade teacher. That
was a mistake, that's my responsibility and I apologize and I clarify that today.
[14:20:00]
It did not come from a second grader, it read, second grade teacher. I will also be providing several investigative updates from the 8:00 p.m. briefing
from last night. The Madison Police Department is committed to transparency and will continue to release information that can be used to improve public
safety.
This must be balanced against our commitment to the victims of this horrific crime and the need to do a thorough and complete investigation. As
a result, I recognize many of you may have questions that I cannot answer at this time. I ask for you to keep the victims in your mind and respect
their right to a thorough investigation.
I also will not be taking questions at the conclusion of this press conference, but your pre-submitted questions serve as the basis for updates
that we are providing for you this afternoon. If your question is not answered, it is due to an ongoing investigation. OK. We know a document has
been widely shared on social media, at this time, we cannot verify its authenticity.
We have detectives working today to determine where this document originated and who actually shared it online. At this time, we cannot
verify the document. We ask that you not share the document or spread any information that may be false. Our department will provide an update on
this document when we can.
There are always signs of a school shooting before it occurred. Some of you have reached out about Rupnow's social media activity prior to yesterday's
shooting. We are looking into her online activity. We're asking anyone who knew her or who may have insights into her feelings leading up to
yesterday, to please contact the Madison Area Crime Stoppers.
Again, anyone who may have known her or knew what she was feeling or going through at that time, please direct those inquiries to Madison Area Crime
Stoppers. That number is 608-266-6014 or at P3 Tips, P3 Tips. We will not be releasing specifics about these social media accounts at this time.
Identifying a motive is our top priority, but at this time, it appears that the motive was a combination of factors. Again, we cannot share that
information at this time because we do not want to jeopardize the investigation and those who are currently cooperating with us. All patient
status remain unchanged. The 9-1-1 calls or the record of the 9-1-1 communications center and their standard operating procedure is not to
release documents in open and active investigations.
Again, we are working to authenticate the documents that you see online that some are referring to as a manifesto. And as soon as we do that, we
will let you know. Now, the process for doing that is looking at original documents that may have been taken from the suspect's home, looking at
information that may be on laptops or on computer to determine if this document originated from our suspect.
Any disciplinary records would be under the purview of the school. Some of you have asked whether or not she was troubled, or whether or not she was
troubled at school, we do not have those records, we are not the proprietor of those. On the question of bullying, we're talking to students to
understand whether bullying was one of those multiple factors that I mentioned earlier.
Some have asked if people were specifically targeted, everyone was targeted in this incident, and everyone was put in equal danger. Today, numerous
MMSD schools were targeted by false threats, often known as swatting. We are working closely with the Madison Metropolitan School District to
determine where these originated and to investigate this call.
We do not believe that there are any current threats to any Madison area schools, and will continue to investigate these calls and any threats of
violence as they come in. Let me be clear on this point. Making false threats is a crime, and we are working with the district attorneys to
prosecute these crimes as information is gathered.
[14:25:00]
And if we have to do that, we certainly will. I encourage all parents, all family members to talk to your loved ones about this. We will determine
where they originated. We'll use federal partners if we have to, and levy those charges as well. As we continue to investigate what happened
yesterday, we are keeping the victims and their families in the front of our minds.
We want to thank the countless people and organizations who have reached out to support them, as well as the Dane County Victim Witness Unit and the
Dane County Emergency Management who provided direct support to the families. To the Abundant Life Christian Academy, this is a hurting and
haunting situation, and the many survivors will need our continued support, and we pledge to give them that in the days, months and even years ahead.
As a community, we must not allow violence or any act of violence to define us. We refuse to allow hate or destruction to win in this city. But rather,
we will honor our survivors, our victims through love, support and the Madison way. Please, continue to take care of yourself and take care of
each other. At this time, we have several officers who are working today, who was -- working yesterday.
They were given the opportunity to stay home on what we commonly refer to as an administrative day. They were offered peer support, emergency
assistance program through our city, but those officers chose to come to work today and serve their community. So, at the end of my remarks, I'm
going to find each and every one of them and personally shake their hand and thank them on behalf of a grateful city and a grateful administration
and a grateful department and profession for their act of selfless public service. Thank you. Mayor?
MAYOR SATYA RHODES-CONWAY, MADISON, WISCONSIN: Thank you, chief. I want to start where the chief ended, which is just asking everyone in this room and
within the sound of my voice to take a minute. It's been an incredibly difficult 24-plus hours at this point in time. And we're all human,
including each and every one of you in the media who is covering this really tragic event.
Please, remember that you're human and take care of yourselves. We all need to do that. Drink water. Take a moment, access whatever mental health
resources you need because that's our job now, is to take care of ourselves so we can take care of each other and our community. Yesterday, the Madison
community experienced a terrible and traumatic event.
If there's any positive in it, it's that the educators at Abundant Life, our local law enforcement and first responders and our community partners
were prepared to respond. They acted without hesitation to protect our children, and I'm grateful and humbled by their actions. It's a day that I
hoped never would come to our city, but like so many --
SOARES: You have been listening there to the mayor of Madison, and before that, you heard Chief Shon Barnes, who is the Madison police chief, clearly
moved there by what has happened in his community just in the last 24 hours. A deadly school shooting at a Christian school, news that we broke
yesterday during the show.
And we heard from Chief Barnes saying that the past 24 hours have been a flurry of emotion, he said, we were brought together by a tragedy today.
Three families woke up this morning to a world without a loved one. And that can never be outdone. In terms -- the update on the investigation, he
said, they are on the investigation phase, and he said identifying the motive is a top priority.
And he did say there are combination of factors, but he did not want, he didn't elaborate on that. He didn't want to jeopardize the investigation.
They are working, he said, also to authenticate a document that's being called a manifesto.
[14:30:09]
So, they're going through that process of trying to authenticate that. That has been shared -- he said, documents have been shared on social media and
asked everyone not to share it. But clearly, incredibly emotion 24 hours full of sadness.
(INAUDIBLE) said, grief in Madison community of these families waking up without their loved one, and many of course still in hospital we believe.
Our Natasha Chen was listening in and Natasha, clearly, the investigation phase still very much starting there, but this trying to prioritize the
motive and working on this document that has been widely shared on social media document, of course, we are not sharing. But what do we understand?
What do we know about this document?
NATASHA CHEN, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, as police have indicated, they have been made aware of such a document that has been
widely shared on the Internet. The reason they are not able to authenticate this statement thus far is that they want to make sure it actually came
from the shooter. They are looking at documents from her home from her laptop to make sure what's being shared out there maybe is actually
matching what comes from her own devices or papers in her own home. So, there's a lot of cross referencing that they need to do, it sounds like,
before they can verify the authenticity of what people are calling a manifesto.
Now, they did mention, as you said, a combination of factors perhaps for the motive, including, I thought it interesting, that they mentioned
looking at whether bullying was one of the factors. Earlier, a lot of media had asked the police chief whether these particular victims were targeted,
and he made sure to say just now in that press conference that everyone was targeted and everyone was put in equal danger in that school.
He did also want to correct one thing that he put out there yesterday to say that the 911 call actually came from a teacher, not a second-grade
student, but a second-grade teacher. And he said that was a mistake in reading the files there. So, we would like to stress that as well, because
I think we've been under that impression that a child had called.
But you know, in seeing how the children have reacted, at least those that have stepped in front of the camera with their parents to the local media,
it is incredible to listen to those young children describe what they saw. If we have some of that witness sound, let's play that for you now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard them and then some people started crying. And then we just waited until the police came. And then they escorted us out. I
was scared. Why did they do that? Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was getting ready for lunch, so it was basically lunch time. And then, I just heard shouting. And there was a teacher. And
she was screaming like, ah, my leg. Help, help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHEN: And just a reminder that one teacher and one student were killed. There were six others injured in this incident, two of them are in critical
condition with life threatening injuries. Two others are stable. These conditions were told to us late last night. And the police chief told us
just now that their conditions have not changed at this time, Isa.
SOARES: Natasha Chen, I know you'll stay across it. Thanks very much, Natasha, for the very latest there.
And still to come right here on the show, foreign dignitaries are lining up to meet Syria's new rulers, As Syrians uncover more horrors from Assad's
fallen regime. We'll bring you the very latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back everyone. The U.N.'s refugee agency expects around 1 million Syrians to return to their home country in the next few months. The
agency says many refugees have already returned to Syria spontaneously from Turkey, Lebanon, as well as Jordan.
And this comes as the new Syrian leader meets with British officials in Damascus as you're seeing there. According to HTS statement, Mohammed al-
Jolan looks to restore serious relations with the U.K. and is calling for the removal of sanctions.
As thousands, of course, of families search for loved ones who are vanished during the Assad dictatorship, we're told Syrians are beginning to uncover
mass graves. We should note, the video you're about to see is disturbing. And we're going to show you a site, as you're seeing there, in a town off
of Daraa where people are digging up skeletal remains
The executive director of the Syrian Emergency Task Force says hundreds of thousands of bodies could be buried in mass graves throughout the country.
Well, my next guest is director general of the International Organization for Migration, IOM. Amy Pope joins me now live from Beirut in Lebanon. Amy,
welcome to the show. Great to have you back. I understand from my team that you went to Damascus as part of the first U.N. agency head delegation
mission. Give us a sense of what you saw. I know it's a moment of huge joy and hope. But as we clearly seen just now, comes with huge challenges too.
AMY POPE, DIRECTOR GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MIGRATION: That's right. So, we saw people celebrating on the streets, flying the
flag, out celebrating, enjoying the moment, but there's also the reality that the situation on the ground is quite complex. The humanitarian needs
are dire. There are over 16 million people who need some sort of humanitarian protection.
So, the joy is certainly tempered by some very realistic needs that exist and very, very high pressure on the caretaker government to deliver for
those people who are most in need.
SOARES: And from what I understand, IOM had a presence in Syria -- last had a presence in Syria back in 2001. Is it returning at this point? I know the
new regime is kind of on a mission, as we've been reporting here, trying to gain international legitimacy. Just speak to that.
POPE: Absolutely right. So, we left Syria in 2018 primarily because the Assad regime was demanding things of our organization that we just couldn't
deliver. It wasn't consistent with our obligations as an international organization.
[14:40:00]
We've seen right away that the moment that this caretaker government has come in, they've been very open to the International Community. They're
very willing to partner. They are committing to creating a more inclusive and responsive government. And they are committing to address the needs of
the millions of Syrians who need them. So, it is a complete sea change from what we've seen in the past. And frankly, it's quite welcome. So, we see
our role as helping to meet the needs of many, many Syrians who now desperately need the support.
SOARES: How then, Amy, just explain this to our viewers right around the world, are you preparing to assist those in Syria? Because I was just
seeing a briefing given by Tom Fletcher, the undersecretary-general for Human Affairs, and he addressed the Security Council on the situation in
Syria, and he said nearly 30 million people face acute food security, health services, water supplies, already corroded by years of conflict,
declining funding, 12,000 schools temporarily shut down. Where do you start, Amy?
POPE: Well, so first of all, we start by using the data to assess the needs. This is something that IOM does all over the world. The data that we
get helps other humanitarian actors target those communities who need us most. We also support by bringing in shelter. We bring in hygiene kits,
water, sanitation. We work with other partners to ensure there's food for people, the most basic lifesaving support.
But it can't be just humanitarian. We need to start thinking about rebuilding infrastructure, for example, whether schools or hospitals or
homes so that people can actually survive and make a living in this new reality.
SOARES: And we heard from the U.N. today talking about those returning, around 1 million Syrians expected to return just in the next few months. I
mean, speak to the challenges, those additional challenges that poses.
POPE: Now, we've seen already about 200,000 people who are now going back to where they've come from. A lot of them are head of a household, perhaps
a father of a family who's going back to assess the situation, determine whether it's safe for his family to come back into Syria. But right now,
what we're seeing is huge insecurity. There's not necessarily schools or infrastructure, there aren't safe places for people to go.
So, while we think that there -- certainly, anybody has a right to return home, should there be millions or even one million returning within six
months, it would put an enormous strain on the system right now at a moment when it's extremely fragile.
SOARES: Amy Pope, the director general of IOM. Amy, great to have you on the show. Thank you very much.
POPE: Thank you.
SOARES: And still to come right here tonight, exclusive new reporting on France's mass rape trial, new details on how Gisele Pelicot's husband was
able to orchestrate the abuse. That exclusive report after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Well, a verdict is expected on Thursday in the Pelicot rape trial that has shocked France as well as much of the world. Dominique Pelicot is
accused of organizing the abuse of his own wife, Gisele. She decided to waive her right to (INAUDIBLE) and has spoken out openly in court, saying
it is time to look at this macho patriarchal society and change the way it looks at rape. Fifteen men, including Pelicot, have pleaded guilty to rape.
Others say they thought that a husband's consent was enough.
Now, exclusive access to French police reports reveals exactly how a husband found men to rape his wife. Our Saskya Vandoorne reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: I've come here to retrace the steps of all those men who visited Dominique Pelicot's house in the middle of the
night.
This case really has captured the world's attention with so many people asking why. We're going to focus instead on how Pelicot led the men right
here.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): The way he communicated, the tactics he used, how he came to be on trial for mass rape and drugging his wife. What was his
playbook?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 50 men accused in the mass rape of Gisele Pelico. She was drugged.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drugged unconscious by her husband, Dominique Pelico.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dominique Pelico admitted to recruiting --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Enlisting other men to join --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- rape his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sparked outrage across France.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going global concern about violence against women.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): CNN has gained exclusive access to police reports with thousands of messages that Dominique exchanged with the 50 men on
trial alongside him. He didn't have to search far for his alleged accomplices. They all live within a 30-mile radius of his house in Mazan.
The horror is still felt here by local women.
NEDELJKA MACAN, MAZAN RESIDENT: This area was so quiet, a nice area. And now, we don't know if somebody who is the next shop is one of these men. It
changed everything.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): From a firefighter to a journalist to a nurse, from 27 years old to 74 years old, all the men were connected by one website,
Coco. Shut down this summer, Coco's chat rooms were easy to access.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): It was not buried in the dark web, as one man accused of raping Gisele Pelico said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I got in touch through Coco in the evening when I was by myself. My wife had gone to bed and I was a little
bored.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): But because the so-called dating site was entirely unmoderated and anonymous, it boasted chatrooms selling date rape drugs and
spaces to glorify sexual violence.
Under the pseudonym available all night, Pelicot posted in a chatroom called Without Her Knowledge. It was there that misogyny and sexual abuse
were completely normalized.
VANDOORNE: While Pelicot has pleaded guilty to rape, most of his codefendants say that they believe Dominique Pelicot's consent was enough.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): Coco was the door. Pelicot would then move the discussion to Skype.
VANDOORNE: He traded videos of his wife being raped for intimate images of the men's own partners, according to the police report.
MATHIAS DARMON, LAWYER, INNOCENCE EN DANGER: We saw Coco was a very dangerous website.
VANDOORNE: Innocence En Danger has been campaigning against the site for years.
DARMON: They went to this website to realize their worst fantasies, so it became a reality thanks to Dominique Pelicot.
VANDOORNE: He told police that over time he built a network of men.
DARMON: The place where they could meet, what time, what they could wear, they couldn't wear.
VANDOORNE: He allegedly told the men what drugs to buy and how to use them. This all went undetected for 10 years.
Dominique Pelicot never thought his text messages or his alleged crimes would see the light of day. And they probably wouldn't have if it weren't
for the events that took place right here on September 12th, when a security guard caught him red handed filming up the skirts of several
women.
[14:50:00]
DARMON: This is kind of websites. As long as there is demand, then there will be supply.
VANDOORNE: In the wake of Coco's shutdown, more websites have gained in popularity in France. CNN extracted data from just one of those websites.
After going through almost 6,000 messages from a 24-hour period, we found a strikingly similar pattern of men sharing explicit photos of their wives
and girlfriends. And asking to move the discussions to private messaging platforms.
Some men went as far as offering up their wives to other users in a manner like Pelico, but it's unclear if any of them set up real-life encounters.
There are some websites that could be the new Coco. How does that make you feel?
MACAN: For these websites, it's a Kind of marvelous thing what happened with Gisele Pelicot. It brings them advertising.
ANNETTE DUMONT, MAZAN RESIDENT (through translator): It could very well happen again tomorrow in another place.
MACAN: We expect that some laws will change, but of course, I'm not sure that it will be enough. So, I don't feel at ease here in the streets.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Absolutely horrific. We'll bring you, of course, the very latest from that trial on Thursday. I'm going to take a short break. We'll see you
on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Venezuela's opposition leaders were honored with the European Union's Top Human Rights Award this Tuesday. European Parliament President
Roberta Metsola presented the Sakharov Prize to Edmundo Gonzalez Urrutia and Maria Corina Machado at a ceremony in Strasbourg. Nicolas Maduro's
victory in this year's election was contested by independent observers, including the United Nations. The E.U. Parliament recognized Gonzalez as
Venezuela's legitimate president in a resolution last month.
Well, airports are always busy around the holidays, you all know. But this one in India saw some particularly crowded scenes on Monday. Have a look.
[14:55:00]
And all this commotion is for 18-year-old Gukesh Dommaraju who returns to his hometown a hero after becoming the youngest ever chess world champion
last week. He was met with quite the welcome, but it's not the only way he's celebrating. He's also completed a bungee jump in Singapore since the
big win and is set to be meeting with Prime Minister Modi later this month. Congratulations to him.
And from a chess champion to a record-breaking daredevil, you have to see this. If you're afraid of heights, well, I warn you, look away right now.
This caught my eye this morning. In California, Austrian climber Babsi Zangerl, has successfully completed an ascent of Yosemite's famous rock
face, El Capitan, going up 3,000 feet, or 1,000 meters, over about four days.
And if climbing something that high isn't impressive enough or she did it on her first try without falling. In the climbing world that's called, we
learned today, a flash. Zangerl is the first person to ever do so on any El Capitan route. She tells CNN that it was hard to believe. Congratulations.
We'd like to end on some positive news for once.
And that does it for us for this evening. Do stay right here, Newsroom with Jim Sciutto is up next. I'll see you same place, same time tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
