Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
Trump Threatens to Bomb Iran; Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams to Speak About Their Time in Space. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired March 31, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ERICA HILL, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Welcome to the show, I'm Erica Hill in for Isa Soares. Tonight, Marine Le Pen banned from seeking public
office. The French far-right leader found guilty of embezzlement with drastic implications for the nation's politics. World markets sink ahead of
the most significant round of tariffs yet out of the White House.
And as the U.S. President floats the idea of a third term in office, we have those details. Plus, we are hearing now for the first time from NASA
astronauts Butch and Suni, now that they're back on land of earth, of course, about their once-in-a-lifetime extended journey to space.
We do begin this hour, though, with the ruling that is turning French politics upside down. Far-right leader Marine Le Pen, who was seen as
having a serious shot at becoming the country's next president, is now banned from running for public office for five years, effective
immediately. The politically-explosive ruling from a court in Paris came during her conviction on embezzlement charges.
Le Pen left the courtroom before the full sentence was read. She was also handed a four-year prison sentence, with two years suspended and two years
to be served under house arrest. Le Pen, who has been the frontrunner for the 2027 presidential election in a number of polls, denies any wrongdoing
and has branded this case as a, quote, "witch-hunt".
Her attorneys say the ruling and the conviction will be appealed. Jordan Bardella; Le Pen's successor as the National Rally Party President, is
asking people to sign a petition in support of her, calling for a, quote, "peaceful mobilization". CNN's Melissa Bell joining us now from Paris with
more on these details. It was quite the headline as the news of this crossed. How is it sinking in there in Paris?
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think there's a great deal of surprise that the judges presiding over this trial into this
embezzlement question went as far as they did. It was when the prosecution had sought not just the sentences that were handed out today -- down today
regarding prison terms and fines, but even going so far as to request that five-year ineligibility.
There had been many, including the current Justice Minister, not simply people inside Marine Le Pen's own National Rally Party, but in the much
more mainstream of France's political spectrum, saying that this is not something that should be decided by courts, and that Marine Le Pen should
be allowed to stand in the next presidential election.
As you say, this is arguably the election in which she has the best shot at getting the presidency that she's sought for so long. This would have been
her fourth run. The fact of this decision makes that now impossible, with all kinds of questions about how her party reacts in the short term.
You mentioned that mobilization that they're calling for and for people to react, but they can also have an impact on the parliamentary sense. They
have now the largest -- they are the largest party in France's National Assembly. Will they continue to support the current government? That is far
from clear.
There are longer-term implications about who will now stand for the party in this election that many think the National Rally may actually win, will
certainly go through to the second round, as it has in the last two elections. Who will be their candidate now that it will not be her? And
then there are longer term questions I think about how this plays out in front of the public.
And I think this is why the judge today went to such great lengths, Erica, to explain over several hours the reasons for these verdicts and these
sentences. And it was, she said, because of this vast system of embezzlement of European funds that should have gone to fund parliamentary
researchers and assistants of the far-right National Rally at the European level.
This goes back to the time when Marine Le Pen herself was an MEP. This money had been misused to fund party political posts here in France, and
so, explained the judge. This is a party that had found money to fund its resurgence precisely through these illegal means. And this was a direct
attack on democracy.
And I think the judge went to such great lengths to explain this precisely, because we understood what Marine Le Pen's charge was before she went into
this hearing today, when she said, they want my political death, this will be a political decision. And what we're likely to hear over the next few
days from her supporters that the judiciary has, in this case, gone too far.
And I think that is why the judge went to such great lengths to explain that it was precisely in the name of protecting democracy from this party
and this woman in particular, that she had handed down the sentences she did today. Erica.
[14:05:00]
HILL: Yes, so interesting. The judge clearly was drilling down. Melissa, appreciate it. Thank you. Also joining us tonight from Paris, Christine
Ockrent, who is a French journalist and author and a former chief operating officer of "France 24" and "RFI". Christine, it's good to talk to you
again. I want to pick up actually where Melissa just left off.
The fact that the judge was really laying out all of these charges, right? This was about millions that had been embezzled over several years from the
European parliament to pay assistance within Marine Le Pen's party. How much of that is coming through?
CHRISTINE OCKRENT, FRENCH JOURNALIST: All of it. You know, the case has been pending for quite some time. It doesn't come as a surprise. That
system was very well organized, and the facts are pretty obvious. And that is why the sentence, however harsh, is legally, perfectly justified.
Politically, it's explosive.
But legally, it makes a lot of sense. Can you imagine that? Even her bodyguard was paid by European money, as if he was actually, you know,
doing some work at the European parliament as a -- as an assistant. So --
HILL: Yes --
OCKRENT: The system, the facts, it's all been well known for quite some time. That doesn't come as a surprise. But you are right, Erica. What is
the shock is a political shock. And of course, what is likely to happen is that it will mobilize all those on the far-right in France who believe, you
know, in conspiracy theories, because it's always much easier.
And who will say, oh, it's a witch-hunt. But Marine Le Pen has already filed an appeal, so it all depends now how long that judiciary process will
take. Usually, you know, our courts are overloaded, it may take between 18 months and 2 years. Maybe the process will be speeded up. But she has an
appeal. So, the next court could eventually make another decision.
HILL: So, as we wait for that, as you point out, there is the political fallout here. And even just the word choice is fascinating, especially as I
speak to you from here in the United States, of course, that term, witch- hunt, a political witch-hunt is when we're very familiar with. And it's been used, of course, by the President of the United States multiple times
when there is something that he doesn't like, he automatically calls it a witch-hunt.
I have already seen, whether it's on social media, specifically on social media, I should point out, since this ruling, you're already seeing that
mobilization which Melissa also referred to of the far-right, not just people within the party, but the party really trying to rally around behind
her. How powerful a moment could this be for that party?
OCKRENT: Well, it's certainly a galvanizing moment, but the problem is, who will actually run that party? There is a 29-year-old Jordan Bardella
who is quite popular, especially with young men, which also rings a bell in the U.S., I gather. But he's quite an experienced, and he's also contested
within the party.
And Marine Le Pen, who is right now, on the evening news of "Channel One", you know, for us, it's 8:00 p m. So, she will express herself in a few
minutes. What her position is going to be. Two notes, by the way, quite ironical. The first foreign reaction to the sentence came from the Kremlin,
I'm not sure that was the most welcome by her. And also Elon Musk of all people, suddenly decided that he knew about the French judicial system.
HILL: It is fascinating, as you point out those two immediate reactions. What will you be watching for in the coming days as there is going to be
this jockeying really for the leadership of the party? And it's not just, as you point out, it's not just Jordan Bardella, but there are other names
that have been floated around, and there are questions about who could actually carry it.
OCKRENT: Yes, you know, our presidential election is due in the Spring of 27. So, there's still some time to go. In the meantime, we have a very
fragile parliamentary balance in parliament.
[14:10:00]
And so, is Marine Le Pen going to decide to create more political havoc, you know, to sort of take a revenge so much on the judiciary, but on the
whole system, even if it's her own party and she herself, who actually voted a few years back for hardening the very law that she's now the victim
of. So, is there going to be more censorship of the current government?
Will the government fall? Will there be more political agitation? I don't want you to get involved into French politics, but that's one dimension.
But again, as you point out, and that very much depends on what she's -- I can -- I'm looking right now at another screen. Marine Le Pen is on
"Channel One". She's speaking out. I don't want to put the sound on because I don't want to disturb our connection --
HILL: Yes --
OCKRENT: But it will very much depend on the wording that she's using right now.
HILL: Yes, and we are actually -- we are monitoring that as well here in - - here at CNN. And of course, we'll bring you some of that to our viewers after we hear more of what she has to say in reaction. Christine, really
appreciate your time this evening. Thank you.
OCKRENT: Thank you.
HILL: Well, everyday Americans and economies across the globe, frankly, are bracing for the impact of another promised wave of U.S. tariffs. We are
now just two days away from what President Trump is calling liberation day, when he plans to impose those sweeping tariffs targeting all countries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The tariffs will be far more generous than those countries were to us. Meaning they will be kinder than
those countries were to the United States of America over the decades. They ripped us off like no country has ever been ripped off in history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Well, also on Wednesday, new 25 percent tariff on cars and car parts announced last week by the U.S. is set to take effect as well. Mr. Trump
says that will lead to higher prices on foreign cars. He claims it will also boost American car production, but it's important to note many
economists dispute that allegation.
The President, seemingly unconcerned, told "NBC News", quote, "I couldn't care less if they raise prices because people are going to start buying
American cars. With Americans already grappling with high prices, a trade war does present a risky political play. It is something President Trump,
at least, publicly, though, is shrugging off as well.
Two months now into his second term, he's apparently already looking at ways to stay on for a third term. That is, of course, prohibited by the
U.S. constitution, by the 22nd Amendment. Still, Mr. Trump telling "NBC", there are, in his words, methods for him to stay in power beyond 2029. And
he even clarified he's not joking.
Let's take a quick look at how the markets are reacting today. As you see a little bit of green mixed-bag there as we look at the U.S. Indices for a
closer look at all that is happening and coming out of the White House. Let's bring in senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak, as well as CNN
business and politics correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich.
Good to see you both. So, Kevin, let's start first on these tariffs on what we've heard about everything that is coming down the pike. Any reason to
think there could be a change between now and Wednesday?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: You know, I don't think so. But at the other side of the coin, we don't really know precisely what is coming
down the pike on Wednesday. We know that the President is planning to make this announcement. We know it's going to be in the Rose Garden, but beyond
that, we haven't really received any precise details from the White House about what exactly these new tariffs might look like.
And in fact, we just heard from the Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt, who listed out every member of the President's economic team, whether it's
Scott Bessent, Peter Navarro, Kevin Hassett, Howard Lutnick, and said that they had each presented their plans to the President for these tariffs, and
that he was now deciding what he would end up doing on Wednesday, on this day that he calls liberation day.
You know, he's been talking about this for six weeks, and you've heard him describe it in different ways. In some ways, this is a dollar-for-dollar
tariff on countries who apply their own tariffs on American goods. On some days it's a much easier tariff regime. You heard him last night saying that
he wanted to be more generous than some of these other countries, but when we asked Leavitt what exactly he meant by that, she said she wouldn't
answer.
She would leave it to the President to say. When we asked Karoline Leavitt how many countries would be affected? She said she wouldn't answer, she was
going to leave it to the President to provide the details. She was asked if this would apply to countries that have non-tariff trade barriers, going to
leave that to the President, whether it would apply to trade blocs like the EU or individual countries.
Another detail she was going to leave to the President on Wednesday. And I think this all speaks to the fact that there's a huge amount of uncertainty
two days before the President heads out to the Rose Garden to make this announcement about what exactly he is planning to do, and that is a part of
what has caused all of these jitters in global financial markets.
[14:15:00]
But it also just speaks to this fact that the President is sort of operating these tariffs as a negotiating tool in some ways, he hopes to
bring countries to the table to try and extract some concessions. But you also hear the President and his team describe them as a revenue driver for
the U.S., particularly as he plans to sign into effect new tax cuts for the United States.
He also sees these tariffs as a way to offset that in some ways. And we heard from Peter Navarro, one of the most hawkish trade advisors over the
weekend, saying that this could potentially bring in $6 trillion over the course of the next decade, which is an enormous amount of money, it would
reflect the biggest tax hike in the U.S. in this country's history. But it also tells you when he's describing this in decade-long terms, that in his
view, these tariffs will essentially be permanent.
HILL: Yes, so much uncertainty, as we know too is part of the way that President Trump likes to operate. Vanessa, when we look at this, we are
hearing things from the administration like this is going to boost manufacturing, that doesn't happen overnight as we know, since a lot of
that manufacturing has left the U.S.
Also, that it is -- this is all about when we look specifically at auto tariffs, that this is about getting Americans to buy American cars, a
strictly American car is kind of hard to find.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's no such thing as an all American car anymore. And I think the most amount of
certainty we have right now is that there are some sort of auto tariffs that are going to go into effect this week on foreign cars that are
imported and on foreign parts that are imported.
But we produced a lot of vehicles right here in the U.S., about 10.2 million, 15 percent of those vehicles are actually exported to other
countries. So, if we get into a scenario where other countries start putting on reciprocal tariffs, well, that is certainly going to impact
production here in the U.S.
Some estimates suggest that production of cars could drop by 10 percent to 20 percent, and ultimately that affects U.S. jobs. If we're not producing
as many vehicles, if prices go up on vehicles and consumers aren't buying, we don't need as much labor to make those vehicles. Also worth noting that
we have a lot of American parts suppliers, about 500,000 employees within that sector.
That's double the amount of folks working in car plants. If foreign countries start -- stop buying our car parts because of this trade war,
that impacts them as well. And for the average consumer, there's a really short window right now to buy a car before these tariffs hit. It's worth
noting that there is about 85 days of new car inventory right now. That's pretty good.
But new car inventory is about 50 days. That is not as much. So, you have those cars on the market, some cars already assembled here in the U.S.
coming to market. But any cars that are going to be shipped in after this week are going to be hit with a tariff. And Erica, I also want to mention
just food costs because I think this is important.
We do not know what kind of tariffs are going to be placed on other countries, and on what products or food products, but for perishable items
like fruits and vegetables, these are things that you cannot stockpile, right? These are coming over the borders every single day. The
International Fresh Produce Association is asking the administration to make food and floral exempt from these tariffs because of the effect it
could have on prices.
Also worth noting, Erica, that we get a lot of specialty products and specialty avocados, pineapple, mangoes from other countries, because we
cannot grow them here in the U.S. There's simply not the climate for it. So, we -- while we are very good country at growing a lot of our own food,
we cannot grow all of our food, and that is why international trade on the auto front and on the agriculture front, Erica, is so critical.
HILL: Yes, absolutely. A lot of folks are really -- to your point, Vanessa, really bracing for what could happen to food prices. Thank you
both. Well, President Trump also had some uncharacteristically strong words for his Russian counterpart over the weekend, telling "NBC News" he was,
quote, "very angry and pissed off" in reaction to Russian conditions on a peace deal with Ukraine.
Trump also threatened more tariffs on countries buying Russian oil. A Kremlin spokesman said the Russian government will continue to work with
the White House, but offered few specifics. Meantime, Trump's warning to the Kremlin coming shortly after his administration presented Ukraine with
a new version of a minerals deal.
That agreement would give the U.S. access to Ukraine's oil, gas and minerals. Mr. Trump says there will be, quote, "big problems should Kyiv
try to back out." An initial deal fell through last month after that contentious meeting between Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and
President Trump, as well as U.S. Vice President, who you see there in the photo.
[14:20:00]
Still ahead here tonight, searching for life in the rubble. The very latest on the rescue efforts in Myanmar days after the country was rocked by a
powerful earthquake. Plus, we are waiting to hear directly from the astronauts now that they're back on earth. They, of course, ended up
spending nearly 300 days in space, they'd only planned on eight. We'll hear from them shortly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Time is running out in Myanmar, where rescue teams are actively searching for survivors after a massive 7.7 magnitude earthquake tore
through the country on Friday. State media report more than 2,000 people have been confirmed dead, though experts say the true death toll likely
won't be known for weeks. CNN's Ivan Watson is tracking the devastation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Desperate cries for help. Two teenage girls trapped in an air pocket with their grandmother
under the rubble of their home, trying to get the attention of the outside world by banging on concrete with a butter knife. The trio, trapped and
terrified for 15 hours until rescuers pulled them to safety.
Frantic rescue efforts repeated across Myanmar since a deadly 7.7 magnitude earthquake shook the country on Friday. These two women, who asked not to
be identified, say they were also trapped when their five-story hotel in Mandalay collapsed.
(on camera): Could you see outside? Could you see daylight from where you were?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were trapped in total darkness. But the good thing is we had a phone and we could use its light to see. If we didn't have
that, we could have died. We could see to clear rubble from on top of each other.
WATSON (voice-over): They say civilian volunteers from the neighborhood rescued them after five frightening hours. Also in Mandalay on Monday, a
Chinese rescue team pulled three people from the wreckage of a residential high rise, including a pregnant woman and a little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WATSON: But now, as more time passes, hope starts to dwindle. The majority of those still missing now thought unlikely to be alive. Meanwhile, tens of
thousands of people in quake-damaged cities and towns must now find food, clean water and shelter. Myanmar's military ruler Min Aung Hlaing who rules
over a closed society and rarely cooperates with the international community, is asking for international aid and help.
[14:25:00]
Already, one of the poorest nations in Asia, Myanmar has been further devastated by four years of civil war, and the earthquake zone crosses the
war's front lines, with its people in desperate need, some have been critical of the military Junta.
YANGHEE LEE, FORMER U.N. SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ON MYANMAR HUMAN RIGHTS: Why hasn't Min Aung sent in all of his military assets for rescue and relief?
We don't see any helicopters with rescue and relief team. We only see civilians digging into the rubble.
WATSON: Some lucky survivors in this majority Buddhist country are giving thanks to a higher power.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While being trapped, we learned that nothing is permanent. And the most important thing to do before death is to live a
happy life and to do many good deeds. Don't do bad things because karma will follow you.
WATSON: They say they may become nuns to show their gratitude for their miraculous escape. Ivan Watson, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: Israel countering the latest ceasefire proposal put forward by Egyptian mediators. A senior official tells CNN Israel is asking for 11
living hostages and half of the deceased hostages to be returned in exchange for 40-day pause in fighting. The original draft, which Hamas
accepted over the weekend, called for the release of five hostages and a renewed ceasefire.
Meantime, in Gaza, the U.N. agency OCHA says it has uncovered a mass grave. I do want to warn you, the video we are about to show is graphic. The
bodies of more than a dozen aid workers were found buried beneath the sand on Sunday, one week after coming under attack by Israeli forces.
This comes as the Health Ministry in Gaza says more than 80 people have been killed following Israeli strikes on Sunday and Monday. Senior
international correspondent Ben Wedeman spoke with CNN's Christina Macfarlane earlier to describe the outrage of aid organizations whose
personnel were found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And on the 23rd of March, there was an Israeli operation near the Hashshashin area of Rafah in
the southern Gaza Strip, and as a result, the Palestinian Red Crescent Society and the Palestinian Civil Defense sent five ambulances and a fire
truck to the area where the fighting was occurring to retrieve the injured.
Apparently, they came under Israeli fire, more vehicles were sent to help these emergency workers, including a U.N. vehicle, they came under fire and
then all contact was lost with those personnel and those vehicles. Now, according to the U.N. Organization for the Coordination of Humanitarian
Affairs, OCHA, it took them five days to get permission from the Israeli military to approach that area.
But when they tried to do that, they found that there was fighting still ongoing on the area and actually witnessed civilians being shot by Israeli
forces. Finally, yesterday, they were able to reach the scene, and what they found were the ambulances, the U.N. vehicle, the fire truck were
crushed, partially buried.
They used bulldozers and heavy equipment to recover the bodies who were also buried. What they found were 14 bodies, eight belonging to members of
the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, five civil defense workers and one U.N. worker. One Palestinian Red Crescent Society member is still missing.
They were able to recover one body going back last Thursday. The Israelis are saying that these emergency vehicles were acting in a suspicious
manner. They didn't have their emergency lights on, they hadn't coordinated, and that in the process of firing on those vehicles, they were
targeting what they said, what they claimed were Hamas fighters who were using civilian infrastructure to approach Israeli positions.
This is a claim Israel has made repeatedly, but in the process, of course, what we are seeing is that Civil Defense Emergency workers are being
killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: And our thanks again to Ben Wedeman for that. President Trump is threatening now to bomb Iran and to impose secondary tariffs on that
country unless an agreement is reached over its nuclear program. Mr. Trump had previously sent a letter, which was delivered by the UAE, giving Iran a
two-month deadline to reach an agreement.
Iran's supreme leader rejected Mr. Trump's threat in a speech, saying any action will be reciprocated. President Trump pulled the U.S. out of an
Obama-era Iran nuclear deal during his first term in office. Still to come tonight, astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams set to speak publicly
about their nearly 300 days in space.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: We are hearing now from the astronauts who spend, of course, several months instead of eight days in space. You see astronaut Suni Williams
there. Let's listen in.
CAPT. SUNIITA WILLIAMS, NASA ASTRONAUT: You know, rehab and get ready to take on new challenges. So, you know, feeling good since we've been back
almost two weeks now, actually went out and ran three miles yesterday. So, I will give myself a little pat on the back.
Our trainers are rocking it and getting us ready to get back -- it -- to help out with our -- the new astronauts as they're getting ready for their
mission. So, the biggest thing I want to say was, thank you.
CAPT. BUTCH WILMORE, NASA ASTRONAUT: Yes. Thank you, Suni. Let me start off with an analogy, a sports analogy. This very difficult job that we take
part in, it's a team sport. It encompasses organizations throughout NASA, throughout the country coming together, the Commercial Crew program
headquarters, the International Space Station program, working together day in and day out behind the scenes diligently to make all of this work
together.
And then, you couple that with a nation that comes together and it cares about the human space flight program and prays for us and what's taking
place. It goes beyond understanding, honestly. And then, this organization also is incorporated into an international organization that reaches beyond
our own borders and brings in the world like no other organization on or off the planet. And I can tell you, it's simply a privilege to take part in
all of that.
[14:35:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Thank you all for your opening remarks. We will go ahead and start taking questions now. If you're in the room, please
raise your hand and we'll be sure to get a microphone over to you. If you're joining from our phone bridge, please press star 1 when you're ready
to enter the queue. And due to the high volume of questions today that we are receiving, we ask that media start with one question. And if we have
time for a second round, we'll come back around to you.
We'll start here in the first row with any questions. Mark, go ahead.
MARK STRASSMANN, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Mark Strassmann, CBS News. Welcome back, everyone. Good to talk to all of you again. We're meeting in
this auditorium for a reason. There are roughly 60 news outlets represented here, another 120 or so on the phone. Butch and Suni, have you been
surprised by the continuing and intense interest in your space saga?
WILLIAMS: I would have to say yes, absolutely. You know, it's interesting we go and launch, we knew it was a little bit unique, obviously, first time
flying on a new spacecraft. So, yes, that was interesting. But, you know, then life goes on up there.
And I mentioned yesterday, you know, we pivoted and we were International Space Station crew members and we're doing what all of our other friends in
the astronaut office do, is go and work and train and do science -- amazing science experiments up on the International Space Station. So, you know, I
think you sort of get maybe a little bit tunnel visioned in what your job is. So, you know, the -- you know, do your job type of thing, right.
And so, you're not really aware of what else is going on down here. I hate to say that. You know, maybe the world doesn't revolve around us, but we
revolve around the world, like something like that. But, you know, I think we are just really focused on what we were doing and trying to be part of
the team and making sure we pulled our weight for the team.
Of course, we heard some things and I'll let, you know, obviously hand this off to Butch, heard some stuff from our friends and family that people were
interested and wondering what was going on and concerned about our health and all that kind of stuff while we're up there. But I mean, we were just
part of the team doing the job, filling in wherever we could, and then knowing that there's rotational flights and we'll be coming home eventually
on a rotational flight.
So, no, I don't think we were aware to the degree. Pretty honored and humbled by the fact of when we came home, like, wow, there's -- there are a
lot of people who are interested. Very thankful, very amazed that we could hopefully be one positive element to bring people together.
WILMORE: Yes, I don't know that there's much I could add to that. Just thankful for a nation that cares, a nation that prays and the nation that
is involved in the processes that are important to all of us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We'll take our next question here in the room. Tom, go ahead.
TOM COSTELLO, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tom Costello with NBC News. Again, welcome back. Nice to see you all. Everybody's been thinking about
you and worried about you. And I'm wondering, once you got your feet back on terra firma, what's the first thing both of you wanted to do and were
there any foods you were craving after nine plus months?
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. I wanted to hug my husband and hug my dogs. And I'll say that order -- in that order, but maybe not. No, I'm just joking. But of
course, food, I -- you know, something that's just like for home for me, like something that is very -- you know, reminds you of home. And I had --
my father was a vegetarian. So, I had a good grilled cheese sandwich when I got home. So, that reminded me of him.
WILMORE: Yes. Certainly, embracing the family again, but also the opportunity -- and I've already said it a couple of times, is just to say
thank you to a nation that got involved in all of this. It's -- it makes it special not just for us, but for all -- I think our in nation as a whole.
So, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. We'll take our next question right here in the front row.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. My question is for Suni. When you first got off the plane in Houston, we saw you hug Zena Cardman. And there was a nice
exchange. If you could describe what happened and your gratitude towards the crew members who stepped aside so that you'd have seats coming back.
WILLIAMS: Yes, it's a great observation. So, thank you very much. Zena's awesome. Stephanie Wilson, awesome. You know this -- when this whole thing
was unraveling, like my heart went out because it's just, wow, you're waiting for your space flight, specifically Zena, as her first flight.
Like, wow, you know, it's a little bit rough to know that you are -- you're going to be moved to a different flight.
But at the same time, you know, she's -- she is an awesome person, an awesome astronaut. She's going to get the opportunity. And, you know, this
just wasn't the right flight for her to be on at that moment in time. And so, I just gave her a big, huge hug. I told her that I used her Crew 9
shirt when we were up there for a photo op, but I packed it back up real nicely and put it in her stuff.
And, you know, little joking aside, I just wanted to really tell her thank you for taking one for the team. And that's what our office is about. But
she needed to have that acknowledgement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We'll take one more question here in the room and then we'll head to our phone bridge.
[14:40:00]
JEFF SAPERSTONE, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi. This question is for Sunita. I'm Jeff Saperstone, by the way, from NBC in Boston. A lot of people in
your hometown, in Needham, they've been watching this --
WILLIAMS: Go, Socks.
SAPESTONE: -- you know, bit by bit. Every moment. Yes. Everybody at the elementary school, there was a big watch party for you when you came home.
What's your message to them? They've been so anxiously awaiting for you to return.
WILLIAMS: Oh, well, I'm back. First and foremost, we were always coming back and I think people need to know that and we're back to actually, you
know, share our story with so many people because, you know, it's -- it -- like you all mentioned, it's slightly unique and there's some lessons
learned to it, and part of that is just resilience and being able to take a turn that was unexpected and make the best of it. And I think that is the
biggest thing that I want to, you know, pass down particularly to kids who think that their -- you know, their life should be the straight arrow to
where you -- what you want to do, and you're just going to get there. Well, you know, sometimes it takes some turns, some rights and some left, and you
just keep focused on your goal and other doors might be open for you. So, I think that's the biggest message.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. we will head to our phone bridge. Our first question there is from Marcia Dunn with the Associated Press.
MARCIA DUNN, ASSOCIATED PRESS JOURNALIST: Welcome back, everybody. Butch, this question is for you. Where do you lay the blame for your Starliner
test flight? Clearly, Starliner was not ready to fly when it did. Whom do you hold responsible for everything that happened? Thanks.
WILMORE: That is a question that I cannot answer in a couple of comments. But I'll start with me. There were some issues, of course, that happened
with Starliner. There were some issues of course that happened that prevented us from returning on Starliner. And I'll start with me. There
were questions that I, as the commander of the spacecraft, that I should have asked, and I did not.
At the time, I didn't know I needed to, and maybe you could call that hindsight, but I'll start and point the finger and I'll blame me. I could
ask some questions and the answers to those questions could have turned the tide.
So, blame, that's a term, I don't like that term. But certainly, there's responsibility throughout all the programs. And certainly, you can start
with me. Responsibility with Boeing. Yes. Responsibility with NASA, yes. All the way up and down the chain. We all are responsible. We all own this.
And we are -- in this business, trust -- you cannot do this business without trust. You have to have ultimate trust. And for someone to step
forward and these different organizations say, hey, I'm culpable for part of that issue, that goes a long way to maintaining trust.
So, we're not going to look back and say, this happened or that happened and that person's or that issue or that entity to blame. We're going to
look forward and say, what are we going to use our lessons learned from this whole process and make sure that we are successful in the future?
This is a tough business. The analogy about it is -- it's always a curvy road. It's never straight in this business. And minimizing those curves and
effectual -- being systems and processes in effect to prevent some of these curves is what we have to do as we leave low Earth orbit and go beyond to
the moon and beyond that. So, we're going to look forward, and that's the focus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Our next question on the phone bridge is from Anthony with Spectrum News.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. Welcome back, everyone. It's nice seeing everyone return healthy and safe. I have a question for both you, Suni and
Butch. Given an opportunity, would you guys go up on Starliner again?
WILMORE: Yes. Because we're going to rectify all the issues that we encountered.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
WILMORE: We're going to fix -- we're going to make it work. Boeing is completely committed. NASA is completely committed. And with that, I get on
in heartbeat.
WILLIAMS: Yes, I would agree. The spacecraft is really capable. There were a couple things that need to be fixed, like Butch mentioned, and folks are
actively working on that. But it's -- it is a great spacecraft and it has a lot of capability that other spacecraft don't have. And to see that thing
successful and to be part of that program is an honor.
WILMORE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our next question is from Jackie with the Times of London.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Hello and welcome back to Earth. I wondered about the stuck grounded maroons' narrative and to what extent were you
aware of that narrative playing out around that down here, and has that been frustrating for you to have to address? Thank you.
WILMORE: I'm sorry that was a little garbled.
WILLIAMS: Oh, stuck maroons' narrative.
WILMORE: Oh, the stuck maroon narrative. We heard about that. Yes, we heard about that.
WILLIAMS: Somebody mentioned that.
[14:45:00]
WILMORE: We've said this before. We had a plan, right? The plan went way off of what we had planned, but because we're in human space flight, we
prepare for any number of contingencies because this is a curvy road. You never know where it's going to go. We prepare for this. So, we, as Suni
used the term and it's a great term, we pivoted to all that training we did that we didn't think we needed to do, and a lot of people didn't think we
needed to do, but we did it anyway as we pivoted to this other preparation, and that is what makes human space flight, your human space flight program
special.
It is hard, like I said, and preparing for any number of contingencies is what we do. It happened to be me and Suni involved in this, but it could
have been any one of the astronauts, there's 40 or so of us eligible for assignment. It would've been any one of us that would've been in the same
situation or could have been in the same situation and would've done the exact same thing that we did, because they would've gone prepared just like
we did.
WILLIAMS: Yes. And one, one addition to that, you know, this is a lot bigger than, you know, Butch and myself, like we've talked about already.
This is the International Space Station program and there's a lot of, you know, wheels that are turning and wickets that are -- that we have to go
through to get people up to the International Space Station to do all of the amazing science that we're doing up there. We recognize that. We know
that, just like anybody else in the astronaut office.
And we came, as Butch has mentioned before, prepared, and we are ready to do that pivot and be part of that bigger thing that's not just about us,
knowing that everybody on the ground, there's a huge team of people, like I quickly mentioned in my quick thank you, but there's a huge group of people
who are looking at the whole program and understanding how and what was the best time and way to get us back home. We knew that and we were ready to
wait until that decision was made, and that was fine.
WILMORE: And I'll also add that we're grateful for people that -- I don't think they were looking just at us when they make recommendations, we can
do this, we can do that. They're looking what's best for the human space flight program for our nation's goals. They're not looking just about Suni
and Butch. And we appreciate those entities that do that and reach out and say, hey, we can do this, we can do that, we can do that. And NASA says,
hey, we got a plan. We came prepared. Here's what our plan is. And we think this is the best plan because it doesn't disrupt the flow of how these
missions lay out. So -- and that's the one we went with. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. We'll take our next question here in the room. Andrea, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you guys for being available today. So, your mission became unusually political. Given your experience, do you think
other astronauts are going to get nervous that they could be caught in the middle of a political fight? And is there a point where, you know, this
starts to jeopardize safety of a mission when you start looking at all these politics that come into play? Thank you.
WILMORE: You know, I think Nick's got some good insight on that.
WILLIAMS: Good job.
COL. NICK HAGUE, NASA ASTRONAUT: So, the way I'd like to answer that is that when we're up there operating in space. You don't feel the politics,
you don't feel any of that. It's focused strictly on mission. And you know, if I step back a little bit to the question before. Butch and Suni talk up
here, they make it sound like, you know, well, you know, everybody figured out what they could do with us. The reality is they are highly skilled,
very technically competent, and it took everything I had on every day to keep up with them as they're moving along.
So, they were more than just gap fillers on the station. They were productive, pushing the station mission forward. And Suni was the station
commander, so she was calling the shots. So, you get in that environment, that operational environment. The politics, they don't make it up there.
We are working as a part of an international team that spans the globe and works with, you know, half a dozen mission control centers spread around
the globe that are talking in multiple languages. And we just figure out how to make it happen. And that's the magic of human space flight is that
we can focus on something so positive that pulls people together. And we've been doing that for a long time. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. We'll take our next question here in the room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I'm I'm Jay Huan (ph) with KPRC, the NBC affiliate in Houston. This question is for Butch. I actually stopped by
your church right before I came here. And I heard that you were still attending your church services from space.
WILMORE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell me a bit about why that was important for you to do?
WILMORE: Well, goodness. The word of God continually infilling me. I need it. My pastors are the finest pastors on or off, in this case, the planet.
And to tie in and to worship with my church family was vital. I mean, it's part of what makes me go. And not only that, I also tied into Grace Baptist
Church in Mt. Juliet, Tennessee, a buddy of mine is an elder there and a pastor there. And I would watch their service as well every single week.
And it was invigorating.
[14:50:00]
It was part of what I need as a believer in Jesus Christ to continue that focus it assist me day in and day out because I need that fellowship. Even
though it's fellowship from afar. And it's not like being fellowship up close, but still, I need it. So, yes. Thank you for that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We'll head back to our phone bridge. Next up is Ryan with NASA spaceflight.com.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. Thank you. For the whole crew. Of course, this narrative that's being pushed out has made your mission probably the most
popular NASA mission to the general public for the -- as long as I can remember, probably since the retirement of the shuttle. But for the whole
crew, do you think this extra attention has been a net positive or a net negative for the agency's sort of popularity and the space flight industry
as a whole? Thank you.
WILLIAMS: I'll start with this one. Yes. You know, it's, again, an honor that actually people were paying attention and I'm very thankful that
people are paying attention. And, you know, sometimes good news, bad news, it's just news and it's good for space exploration, and that's what we're
all about.
You know, our mission, of course, building and working on the International Space Station was just awesome and we all had the opportunity to do that.
But we also have bigger goals of exploring our solar system, going back to the moon, going on to Mars. And to get people understanding that it is
hard, it is difficult, and what we do up there is really awesome.
And I think at least that we had a little bit of that that came with the interest in this mission. And if we can perpetuate that and tell people a
little bit more and have the opportunity, the forum to do that, I'm very thankful for that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Our next question is from Nicole with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi there. Could you please perhaps talk about how difficult it was being away from your friends and family, particularly
since you hadn't prepared for that?
WILMORE: Difficult. Yes, I would say it was difficult. It wasn't in the preparation. But in my family, we talk about these possibilities. We
discussed all of this. We never said we were going to be gone for nine months, but it turned out that way. But the discussions we had, and it's
not just discussions prior to the mission launch, this is the way we've trained our daughters from the time they were born, because I am -- you
know, their dad is in a unique occupation, right? This is not the norm leaving the planet. And they understand that.
And they, again, to use that term, pivoted and got on board, understanding that this is part of what families that -- and this type of businesses do.
And it's not just in human space flight. This is military, armed forces, police forces, all across all different types of occupations that --
HILL: So, if you're just joining us now, we've been listening to astronauts Butch Wilmore there and Suni Williams, as they have returned, of
course, back to Earth. Their eight day mission turning into nine months. They were talking a little bit about that.
Joining me now he's retired colonel astronaut, Chris Hadfield. He's also the author of "Final Orbit." Chris, it's great to have you with us. You
know, some of the questioning, a lot of things that have been I think talked about over the last nine months by those of us here on Earth who
have never been up to space, what was this like? How do you prepare for it? I feel like you and I had this conversation that this is what astronauts
do.
I was also struck by both Suni and Butch really stressing that this was a team effort and how maybe they didn't plan for nine months, but how they
actually were thrilled to be a part of everything that was happening there at the International Space Station, and they really wanted to make use of
that time and chip in.
COL. CHRIS HADFIELD, CANADIAN ASTRONAUT (RET.), AUTHOR, "FINAL ORBIT": Yes. Erica, nice to talk with you. It was good to hear what Suni and Butch
and Nick had to say. You know, if you're an astronaut onboard a space station, you are living your own dream. It's what you've been working
towards for decades. And if someone calls you on the radio and says, hey, Suni, hey Butch. We need you to stay longer. You know, yes. You're family,
it's going to be disruptive, all the other stuff. But in your heart of hearts, that's the most exciting news you can get.
I get to stay up here longer. This thing that I have been working towards and supporting my whole life I get more of it. It -- so, you could hear, I
think, some of that in the way that Suni and Butch were talking about it. And to hear that both of them would like to fly in space again, I think is
another good indicator of what the experience was like for spending, as you say, nine months up there.
HILL: Absolutely. And there were questions about where's the blame lay for the fact that there were issues with that niching Boeing Starliner and you
heard Butch say, hey, look, you know, I'm at the top here. There are questions I should have asked. This was a team effort. I have faith in this
program moving forward, I thought was also important.
[14:55:00]
I know we're a little tight on time, Chris, but I did want to ask you, they were asked specifically about the politics seeping in here and how tough
that is for them, right, as astronauts, they're not there, they don't want to get involved in the politics. Do you have any concerns that politics is
starting to leak into the space program at all?
HADFIELD: Well, it -- NASA is a government agency, like all the -- like the Canadian Space Agency or all the other ones. And so, politics plays a
big part. You know, we're spending taxpayer dollars to be up there. That's why we're so rigorous and so mission oriented and why we put the purpose
ahead of self all the time because we're not doing this just for fun or just for ourselves, this is on behalf of hundreds of millions of other
people.
And so, yes, there -- politics is at the very core of government, of course. But when you're on board, you cross the United States in nine
minutes. And then you go around the rest of the world in the next 81 minutes, and it helps to put regional politics into perspective. You get to
see all 8 billion people every day. You get to see the huge, horrific earthquakes. You get to see the beautiful sunrises. You get to share the
commonality of the human experience, and politicians come and go, and it's always been that way in space flight. And the astronauts on board are just
trying to do their job as well as they can on behalf of everybody.
HILL: It is a beautiful description and incredibly important work. Chris, really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks to all of you for joining me
tonight. Be sure to stay with CNN. Newsroom with Lynda Kinkade is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
