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Laura Coates Live

Israel Warns Of Long War; Cornell University Faces Antisemitic Threats; Laura Coates Interviews Tim Naftali; Laura Coates Interviews An Israeli Mom; Matthew Perry Dies At 54; Trump 2024 Disqualification Trial Kicks Off In Colorado. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired October 30, 2023 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live' starts right now. Hey, Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Hey, Abby. So nice to see you. Great show as always.

PHILLIP: You, too. Have a great show.

COATES: Thank you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow, okay?

PHILLIP: You, too.

COATES: Well, the war in the Middle East is coming home, and the cast of "Friends" pay tribute to Matthew Perry, tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

So as the war rages in the Middle East, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says a ceasefire is not going to happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: This is a time for war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But there was some good news, at least, for one family in Israel today. A female Israeli soldier who was kidnapped by Hamas on October 7th has now been rescued. The IDF says that she was medically checked out and is doing well. But for the families of the remaining hostages, and we're talking about hundreds, the torment continues.

Three women shown in a Hamas hostage video today seated on plastic chairs were facing the camera. One angrily demanding Netanyahu -- quote -- "free us all now." Now, we have chosen not to show the video here at CNN because, one, they are hostages, and two, their statements could have been made under duress.

But if you think that the war that is happening there has no real bearing on what is happening in the rest of the world, you are mistaken, because hate and antisemitism are spreading around the world. An angry mob in Russia's mostly Muslim region of Dagestan -- Dagestan, excuse me, stormed an airport when a flight from Israel arrived on Sunday, forcing authorities to shut it down and divert flights. That, as the war is also coming home domestically and on college campuses, no doubt.

Cornell University's police department is now increasing patrols and even providing extra security for Jewish students in the wake of a series of antisemitic threats in online posts over the weekend. Now, that includes threats to shoot Jewish students in the campus's kosher dining hall. So, what is it going to take to keep students safe? With antisemitic incidents up almost 400%, yes, 400% since the October 7th attacks, I'll talk to a Cornell student about what is happening on that campus.

And later tonight, mourning Matthew Perry, the cast of "Friends" breaking their silence today. Jennifer Aniston, Courtney Cox, Lisa Kudrow, David Schwimmer, and Matt LeBlanc saying tonight -- quote -- "We are all so utterly devastated by the loss of Matthew. We were more than just castmates. We are a family." Well, tonight, I'll talk to "Friends" executive producer, Kevin Bright.

Let's begin, though, tonight with the antisemitic online threats against students at Cornell University. And joining me now, a student at Cornell, Davian Gekman. He's also the former National Jewish Student Union president. Davian, thank you so much for joining us this evening.

We all heard about the statements that were made, the threats. It was just so unbelievable. I mean, your grandfather is a Holocaust survivor, and here we are in 2023 at your college. There were just calls to shoot Jewish students at a building that contains Cornell Center for Jewish Living. There were also calls to rape Jewish women, to behead Jewish babies in front of their families. I mean, the rhetoric, the statements, unbelievable. Do you feel safe on your campus tonight?

DAVIAN GEKMAN, JEWISH STUDENT AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY: First off, Laura, thank you so much for having me, and thank you so much for allowing me to share my experiences to the world. Um, to say I feel safe would be -- I'm not sure I would be able to say that.

I think that -- and I know that my friends and my other classmates do not feel safe on campus. They've been using buddy systems to go from class to class. Some of them did not attend classes today. They requested professors to send them Zoom links so they could attend.

Students who eat at the kosher dining hall were unable to get that kosher food last night as Cornell University called for the Jewish students to, in some respects, to go on lockdown and to not leave their dorms. And so, to say I feel safe, I wouldn't say I'd be able to say that now.

[23:05:00]

COATES: The idea that you're having the buddy systems, lockdowns, not being able to go to the dining hall, and actually having the administration suggest part of that to you is just unbelievable in the year 2023. You actually held up a sign on campus the other day, and it says, we are Jewish, we are proud, we will not be afraid. What led you in that moment to do just that, to make that sign, to hold it up? And I'm wondering, given those threats now, what kind of response did you get from holding that sign?

GEKMAN: Yeah, so, my grandpa is a Holocaust survivor, as you mentioned. I lost many relatives who had to walk into the chambers. I -- Jewish community states often that never again, never forget. Now is the time to really live up to that motto, never again. In times like this, with attacks like these, we must be loud, we must be proud. And most of all, the Jewish community must remain and continue to be Jewish.

This sign, I decided to do today alongside with security. And the reason I want to do this was because to show the Jewish community on campus that you can feel safe and you should feel safe. I did have Cornell police patrolling the area to ensure that no attacks were made.

But it was very receptive by the Jewish community and other students who at times gave me nods, waved to me, chanted, clapped for me. Other students stood with me. I had about 10 to 15 students standing with me today with that sign in the pouring rain, cold. But, you know, rain or shine, I'm still Jewish, and I'm going to continue to be Jewish no matter the hate, no matter the attacks.

COATES: Davian, such powerful words, and I am heartened a little bit to know that there were other students who were supporting you. Were the other student groups on campus supportive of you and your classmates who felt they had to -- have the buddy systems, have the lockdowns, or has it been an isolating experience?

GEKMAN: At times, it could feel isolating because I haven't had the greatest support from the Jewish groups. But that support has been mostly just because they don't feel like it's safe to do an event like this. They were very supportive of me going out, but I didn't have -- I didn't -- Cornell campus is 25% Jewish.

I didn't have, you know, thousands of people out there. But to see the Jewish support, to see the support that I've been getting, the text messages from classmates saying thank you for standing out there, thank you for really being a vocal advocate for the Jewish community, that has brought me a lot of joy, has brought my family a lot of joy, even in times like this where my family -- last night, we had a discussion whether it's safe for me to be on campus or whether I should come back home.

COATES: What'd you decide?

GEKMAN: I told them that I have to stay, that now is not the time to really go back home. But I understood their reservations, and I also told them that if things get worse, then, yeah, I will buy a bus ticket, I will pack my bags, I will head back home because in the end of the day, safety is the number one priority and safety has been the number one priority of the Jewish groups of the campus administration, and I have been very appreciative of from the campus administration and the Jewish groups on campus.

COATES: Davian Gekman, thank you so much. Please stay well, stay safe. I'm sorry you have to even adore even a slight fraction of this on a college campus. Thank you so much.

GEKMAN: Thank you so much, Laura. Stay safe.

COATES: I want to bring in -- thank you. I want to bring in Sofia Robinson, managing editor and reporter for "The Cornell Daily Sun." I'm glad that you're joining us today because we got a little bit of the experience from one of the students who was speaking to us just now. I think we're going to get her back in just a moment.

But one of the things that we've been focusing on and hearing a lot about has been what the experience has been for the administration and, of course, who has also come to support. New York's governor, Kathy Hochul, spoke from Cornell Center for Jewish Living today, saying that anyone making threats will -- quote -- "get no refuge." So, what has the campus climate been like right now?

SOFIA ROBINSON, MANAGING EDITOR AND REPORTER, THE CORNELL DAILY SUN: Yeah, so our newspaper, our newspaper, we spoke to some students yesterday when the threats were being posted online. They told us that they were very fearful for their safety and they were proud of the response from the university to act very swiftly and increase security overnight.

This morning, I went to the Center for Jewish Living, and I heard from Governor Kathy Hochul. I talked to students afterwards. They told me that while they're very fearful for their safety, they are proud of how the state has been reacting and how the university has increased security.

They want to be defiant in the face of these threats. They know the purpose of them is to instill fear, and they don't want that to be their reaction. They want to be able to go on with their daily lives.

COATES: Is the sentiment from the students, that this is a threat from within or that somebody from the outside is trying to instill this fear among the students?

ROBINSON: We don't know right now. It was posted on a forum called Greek Rank. Anyone can post on there. You don't have to be affiliated with Cornell. So, right now, nobody knows if this is a threat from within our community or a threat from outside.

[23:10:02]

COATES: When you look at this, this is the latest antisemitic incident on Cornell's campus, but isn't even the first since Hamas's terror attack on October 7th. What else has been happening on campus?

ROBINSON: You know, just this Wednesday, there was some anti-Israel and anti-Zionist graffiti that was vandalized throughout campus. The university was very swift in their actions of removing this graffiti, but people were pretty shaken up by it. And then two weeks ago, there was an incident where a professor gave a speech at an off-campus pro-Palestine rally in which he stated that he was initially exhilarated by Hamas's attack on Israel. That had a lot of outrage from the Jewish community on campus and along the New York Broadway.

COATES: I want to just play that clip for us. We have that where the professor talks about it being exhilarating. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: They were able to breathe for the first in years. It was exhilarated by this challenge to the monopoly of violence, by this shifting of the balance of power, then they would not human.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, that professor has been placed on leave and has actually since apologized for his -- quote -- "poor choice of words" -- unquote. But he is still employed by the college. How are students feeling about that?

ROBINSON: Student reactions on it are very mixed. There are students who feel very hurt by his words and are calling for his termination from the university. But there are also students who feel his sentiments were taken out of context and not, you know, displayed properly in that video clip. There have been partitions both to, you know, terminate him from the university and also to increase support for him, for a beloved professor.

So, students are very mixed, but I would say, from the Jewish community, it has been a lot of condemnation for this professor.

COATES: Your paper, "The Cornell Sun," has featured a number of op-ed talking about this conflict in Israel. Has it been difficult to balance that coverage? Obviously, you are a college campus. Some Supreme Court justices would call it the marketplace of ideas. Has it been difficult to balance the coverage and reporting?

ROBINSON: It definitely has. Campus feels really tense right now. I can just speak personally from my classes. Students are afraid to talk about this subject. And as you mentioned, we've been covering it very extensively at the Sun, but it has definitely been a difficult topic, a lot of criticism from all different sides.

COATES: Sofia Robinson, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it.

ROBINSON: Thank you. Thank you.

COATES: All this on a college campus, one of likely many across the United States. I mean, the deadly war, shocking atrocities, and hate festering around the world is actually reminding some people of what happened in 1938. Remember what they say. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Well, joining me now, a man who can put it all into perspective for us, CNN historian Tim Naftali. Tim, I'm glad that you're here because I've often heard people referencing that year, hearing people talk about, historically, where we are again and being in this moment. You've seen the video from Dagestan, people flooding the runway, looking for Jews.

Matt Miller, State Department spokesman, described the event as looking like a pogrom, a massacre of Jewish people. Here in the U.S., the ADL is saying that antisemitic incidents are up by nearly 400% since October 7th. There is a real fear in the Jewish community that we're witnessing firsthand. And some are referring it and referencing it to what happened in the 1930s, leading up to the Holocaust. Can you give us some context here about those references?

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, in the 1930s, extreme nationalists in Europe primarily made the argument not just with words but with violence that Jews would never be acceptable in multicultural societies, indeed that they didn't approve, that the nationalists said they didn't approve of multicultural societies.

The Nazis built an entire ideology around this extreme nationalist view. And, of course, the Nazis in an imperialist war sought to eliminate every Jewish person from Europe. So, it is not a surprise that with the increase in antisemitism -- that started a long time before Hamas's terrorist attack on October 7th.

With this increase in antisemitism, the Jewish people and their allies around the world are calling on state -- on governments to defend liberal, civil society? And they worried that some governments are incapable or unwilling because they, too, are extremely nationalist from defending multiculturalism?

[23:15:00]

COATES: We often look back to see politically how these issues were dealt with, the successes, the failures, the evident shortcomings, those that were lesser known. What does history teach us about how to prevent this from happening again? If past truly is prologue, can we course correct?

NAFTALI: Well, history provides us with indications of dangers. And when thought leaders, now we would use the word "influencers," right, when local and state in our case and federal or national leaders don't call out hatred, they are cowardly and they feed it.

It is very important to make the point that dissent, which we privilege and we appreciate in our democracy, is not the same as violent opposition. That when you disagree with someone, there are limits to the acceptability of the disagreement. Once you enter, once you cross the line into violence, it is no longer acceptable. And that is a point that has to be made. There is a limit.

And when you spread hate, when you incite or engage in violence, you are no longer protected by anything like a First Amendment. And that is a point that needs to be made over and over again. We should be free to disagree but non-violently. And that is a point that -- from history we've seen. If you don't make that point over and over again, if you tolerate violence, it will -- the situation will only get worse.

COATES: We've seen so many different moments of history that are getting us to this very moment, sadly. But perhaps the context you bring and the analogies that are being raised from the 1930s, if people are seeing that, perhaps that's the first step in information.

Tim Naftali, thank you so much.

NAFTALI: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Now, when we come back, an Israeli boy turns 12 in captivity in Gaza. I'll talk to his mother who has been pleading for help to see her children again.

And coming up later in the show, remembering Matthew Perry. Executive producer of "Friends," Kevin Bright, is here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LEBLANC, ACTOR: I don't know when I'm going to see you again.

MATTHEW PERRY, ACTOR: Well, I'm guessing tonight at the coffee house.

LEBLANC: Right. Yeah. Okay. Take care.

PERRY: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:22:24]

COATES: There's new video tonight of the moment a female Israeli soldier reuniting with her family following her harrowing rescue from Gaza. A rescue of a hostage would be the first since the war began. But more than 200 hostages remain captive in Gaza, including my next guest's 12-year-old son, Erez, 16-year-old daughter, Sahar, and the father of her children as well.

Now, Hadas Kalderon joins me now. Hadas's mother, Carmela Dan, and her granddaughter were found dead after they were taken hostage by Hamas.

Hadas, it's so difficult to meet in this way, and I'm just so sorry that this is how we are meeting. It seems odd to even ask you how you are doing, and perhaps the better question, what is keeping you moving forward each day?

HADAS KALDERON, SON, DAUGHTER, AND EX-HUSBAND WERE ABDUCTED BY HAMAS: Hi, Laura. First of all, thank you for covering my story. I can't give -- I can't -- I don't have even an answer for myself how I still have the power. But it's like -- you know, I feel like I'm like a soldier in the middle of the war. That's the way I behave.

I can't -- I'm like a robot, you know? I can't stop feeling my pain. I just -- in the night, when I go to sleep. Then by sleeping, I'm crying and screaming. But in the day, I'm like, you know, automatically like a soldier.

I don't -- I have to save my children's life. You know, you probably have little children. You can imagine, you know, Erez, he was just celebrating his birthday, 12 years old birthday in the captivity in Gaza. We celebrate without him, a surrealistic birthday.

And you understand it's like -- it was -- they both, him and Sahar, they've been kidnapped cruelly away from the house, from the safe place, from the safe bed, with pajama, without shoes. Just picked up cruelly away and been taken now for three weeks. And they just disappeared from my life. I don't know for how long. Can you imagine your child in one day disappear? Now, three weeks, and you never know when it's going to be end.

[23:25:00]

I'm in hell, you know. I'm in hell. I went yesterday to the house again, to the kibbutz. I went to see my children's house and my grand -- and my mother, my mom house. They both been burned. I was walking in the kibbutz and it was like a city of ghosts, you know? I can't make a sense about the massacre we had there. It's all quiet. Nobody.

Just -- I see the birds. I see all the burned houses. and I went into the houses with camera, you know. It was -- you know, we went around and I see all the stuff of my children, all the toys, all the clothes, all the mess, and all the burned and black house. Hardly nothing left.

COATES: How did it feel to be in that space, knowing that that was your children's home, and the silence really so cruel not to have them there? What did that feel like for you?

KALDERON: I can say that at the time, I was crushed. I was crushed. I was crying like hell because I could -- for a moment, I could -- you know, I let myself feel and I couldn't stand. I could feel what has happened to them. You know, what's -- you know, it's not a nightmare. It's more than that. It's like terrifying, terrifying moment. You know, when they realize they've been taken. They don't know what's going to happen.

COATES: Well, let me ask you, Hadas. When you -- you obviously heard about the rescue of an Israeli soldier. But then there's also ground invasion happening in Gaza.

KALDERON: What's the thing?

COATES: On the one hand, there's hope that there is an Israeli soldier who has been released, rescued. On the other hand, there is this ongoing ground invasion in Gaza. The two must be very, very difficult to try to reconcile. Do you have concerns about the military response in Gaza that might impact getting your children returned quickly? KALDERON: Of course. You know, we are terrified. All the mother, we don't -- we hardly sleep, we hardly eat, we are terrified because our diamonds are in the monster's hand. And there is, you know, the army.

I just want to believe that the army, you know, behave wisely and with good judgment, and going to behave helpful. But we never know. You know, every moment is very critical. I'm very happy for this one, the one girl that has been released, but we still have the 238th hostages. We mustn't forget that. We mustn't forget. We have to release them. They are in the middle of this war.

COATES: Hadas, we are seeing your beautiful diamonds, as you call them on the screen, and we're so sorry. We will be thinking of your family and them and the other families who are experiencing the hell that you described. It just should not be. Hadas Kalderon --

KALDERON: It's a hell of a time.

COATES: Yes.

KALDERON: It's a hell. I'll just tell you that I went to my mom's house yesterday. I could see her seat. Like always, she was outside and receive us with a warm and lovely smile, invite us for coffee and cake, and a beautiful garden. It's all gone. It's like they murder our soul. I'm telling you, it's all burnt. Nothing left. Nothing. It's like -- really like our ex life is gone, finished. Last life.

COATES: Well, let me say the names of your children again, so they will stay in our minds this evening and beyond. Erez, who just turned 12 years old, and your 16-year-old daughter, Sahar. Thank you so much.

KALDERON: And their father. Their father also.

[23:30:00]

COATES: And their father.

KALDERON: Don't forget the father.

COATES: You're absolutely right. All the names.

KALDERON: They need their father. Thank you very much --

COATES: Thank you.

KALDERON: -- for your help. Thank you very much for everything.

COATES: Hadas, thank you for sharing them with us tonight.

KALDERON: Bye.

COATES: So difficult to think about what she must be experiencing and going through, and the hell that she has described. It's so difficult to wrap your mind around the loss of any person. Up next, we're going to talk to the "Friends" executive producer, Kevin Bright, who has lost his friend, Matthew Perry. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID SCHWIMMER, ACTOR: Yes! Here we go. Pivot, pivot, pivot.

(LAUGHTER)

PERRY: Shut up, shut up, shut up.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The world is saying goodbye to a beloved actor and one of our best friends. Matthew Perry was just 54 years old when he died in his Los Angeles home on Saturday. He was found unresponsive in his hot tub. Now, the cause of death is still unknown, pending toxicology testing.

Perry was best known for playing Chandler Bing on the beloved sitcom "Friends." And tonight, his co-star is releasing a statement saying, we are all so utterly devastated by the loss of Matthew. We were more than just cast mates. We are a family. There is so much to say, but right now we're going to take a moment to grieve and process this unfathomable loss."

My next guest is executive producer of "Friends," Kevin Bright. Kevin, thank you so much for joining us this evening. It is unbelievably sad news to think about the loss of someone that so many of us feel like we knew personally, watching him for the better part of three decades. I mean, we knew Chandler Bing. But you knew Matthew Perry. And I'm wondering if you can reflect a little bit about what his loss means to you tonight.

KEVIN BRIGHT, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "FRIENDS": Laura, thanks for having me. It's obviously very tragic that Matthew's life should end at 54. And especially at a point in his life where he seemed to have conquered the demons that plagued him for so long. And he was on a mission to help people. And that's what he was focused on, I know, speaking to him a few months before.

COATES: The last time you spoke to him, did he seem like he was happy and in good spirits?

BRIGHT: Oh, yeah. You know, he was very up. He was very much invested in the projects in terms of addiction that he was pursuing and also was looking to make movies again. So, he was very up.

COATES: I mean, you've known him since he was what? I mean, 24 years old. You won't forget, he was 24 years old when he started on "Friends." And you just forget how young he was because some of you are watching it in real time right now and think of him frozen in time as forever that person for those incredible 10 seasons. You know, Perry and his co-stars, as they wrote about, they were more than just cast mates. They were a family. And in fact, here he is reflecting on their bond back in HBO Max's really highly anticipated and beloved 2021 "Friends" reunion special. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: The best way that I can describe it is, after the show was over, at a party or any kind of social gathering, if one of us bumped into each other, that was it, that was the end of the night. You just --

JENNIFER ANISTON, ACTRESS: Sat with the person.

PERRY: -- sat with the person all night long.

SCHWIMMER: It's true. I remember that.

PERRY: That was it. You apologized to the people you were with, but they had to understand you had met somebody special to you and you were going to talk to that person for the rest of the night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Talk to us about that bond and really how it also translated to the need to protect one another and to protect Matthew.

BRIGHT: Well, you know, the cast for every episode from the very beginning would gather backstage and they would huddle before they would go out. And so -- and then it would -- you know, gather during the day, in between rehearsal, and eat lunches together. So, it really was a family kind of situation.

And I think, you know, with -- for Matthew, with all of his troubles over the years, I think this cast really, you know, supported him in a way that allowed him to be the comic genius that he was. I think without that perfect cast around him, you know, it could have been a different story.

And also, you know, his relationship with Joey, you know, the Chandler and Joey, I think it was something very special that we hadn't seen before on TV. They were like the odd couple next door.

(LAUGHTER)

And, yeah, so --

[23:40:00]

COATES: I mean, the magic of that show, and I have to tell you, sometimes, people have the misimpression that those who are in comedy either or not as talented or as great of an actor or artist. They think that comedy somehow is a lesser form. And certainly not. It's one of the hardest things to pull off, to land the lines time after time, night after night, in a way that makes people relate to them in such a way and deliver some of those iconic moments of this beloved show.

And yet, what a contrast to this beautiful, raw, vulnerable memoir that he released, where he really talks about just how vulnerable he really was. Were you aware at the time when all this was going, you know, that those were the struggles that he was facing. And if so, were you surprised that he shared them with the world?

BRIGHT: Um, we were aware that he was facing personal struggles and there were times where he had to leave the show for several months, um, to go to rehab. But, uh, you know, in general, I think that the show supported him in a way for those years, and, uh, you know, just allowed him to, um, be in the struggle, you know?

COATES: You know, he has been using this platform and he had been using his platform to really be a guiding light, to be a force of influence for so many people who are battling addiction, but also saw him as one of them, which made it all the more powerful. He had a choice and he chose to use his platform.

There are so many iconic moments. I'm sure you've been watching social media and seeing that people have been sharing all their favorite, either Chandler Bing lines or moments that they love. I want to share for the audience one of your favorites.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: You make me happier than I ever thought I could be. And if you let me, I will spend the rest of my life trying to make you feel the same way. Monica, will you marry me?

COURTENEY COX, ACTRESS: Yes.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That moment still makes you smile. Why?

BRIGHT: Well, because, you know, we were rooting for Monica and Chandler all along. I think that was the thing about their relationship. I remember when we were in London and we did the London wedding and we revealed the relationship for the first time. Matthew and Courteney came out from under the covers, was just like gangbusters for minutes in that place. It's just the applause would not stop.

COATES: Wow. Well, a testament to the actor who was there, and even to this day, Kevin Bright, the applause does not stop for Matthew Perry. Thank you for sharing a little bit with us tonight.

BRIGHT: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:47:52]

COATES: Well, an extraordinary long shot court case is now underway in Colorado to determine whether the 14th Amendment disqualifies one Donald Trump from running for president again.

Let's talk about now the key takeaways from the first day of trial with CNN legal analyst and former White House ethics czar ambassador Norm Eisen. Also, here, lawyer Marcus Childress as well. He was an investigative counsel to the House January 6th Committee. So, it was not a very good day for Donald Trump in Colorado. Why?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Uh, he got rocked with a one-two punch, very powerful law enforcement testimony, followed by a member of Congress, Eric Swalwell, that vividly described for the judge the nature of the insurrection and Donald Trump's words on January 6, his actions, but also 187 minutes of inaction while the insurrection raged. Bad day for the former president.

COATES: Because the whole premise is, if you are an insurrectionist, essentially, you cannot be the president of the United States again, let alone maybe the first time. So, tell me, was there a moment that you saw, Marcus, and you said, that's a good one for the prosecution or defense?

MARCUS CHILDRESS, LAWYER, FORMER JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL: Yeah, going back to what Norm just said, the 2-24 tweet about the president's words on January 6th, former President Trump's counsel said that he wasn't there with a pitchfork on January 6th. But that's ignores the 2-24 tweet where the former president attacked Vice President Pence, said that he wasn't doing all that he could do to push the big lie.

And then we saw some of the worst violence of that day come right after that 2.24 tweet. So, while President Trump may not have had a pitchfork, that 2.24 tweet was way more dangerous than he ever could have been with a pitchfork on January 6th.

COATES: That's just one of the trials he's facing. Remember, there's one coming up as well in Washington, D.C. out about January 6th. Of course, you both know a great deal about it.

But there's also another one in New York State. Civil fraud trial. And some of the witnesses will include his own children. What do you make of the fact you're going to have Don, Jr. and Eric testifying, who are, by the way, defendants, but not Ivanka, whose case was dismissed, right?

EISEN: Ivanka was dismissed out of the case because her service in the Trump companies was deemed to be outside of the statute of limitations period.

[23:50:05]

But that doesn't excuse her from testifying. And I think we will see her. She'll be the last witness in the case in chief. And she's going to have to answer some very hard questions about her father's misrepresentations. How can you say your home is a little over 30,000 square feet when it's really 10,000 square feet? What is she going to say about her knowledge and her father's knowledge, her brother's knowledge, of those false statements? Bombshell testimony.

COATES: Is her credibility an issue? Has she been as forthcoming in all contexts?

CHILDRESS: I'll be curious to see how forthcoming she's going to be when she sat for the January 6th Committee. Some of her testimony wasn't as forthcoming as it could have been. An example is that we asked her about why she came for the rally on January 6th, and whether it was to keep her father calm. She said she couldn't recall that specific reasoning.

But then you talked to her chief of staff, we talked to her on the committee as well, and her chief of staff recalled Ivanka remembering her father calling Vice President Pence a bad name and wanting to keep him calm before he took the stage on January 6th. So, that called into question how forthcoming she was with our committee. And I'll be curious to see how she presents next week in trial.

COATES: Oh, the plot thickens. We're all curious about that. Norm Eisen, Marcus Childress, thank you so much to both of you. We'll be right back.

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[23:55:41]

COATES: Well, thank you all for watching. Look, before we go tonight, we remember TV icon, our friend, Matthew Perry.

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PERRY: There'll be sun.

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