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Laura Coates Live
Trump Refuses To Commit To Rematch; Louisiana Faces Storm; Taylor Swift Throws Support Behind Harris; Michigan Secretary Of State Speaks Out; Laura Coates Interviews Historian And Author Doris Kearns Goodwin. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired September 11, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, debate deja vu. One candidate tanking, another one appears to be soaring. And now the battle over a rematch with just 55 days to go.
Plus, the drastic measure just announced to prevent another January 6th. Michigan's top election official joins with an inside view of the risk at hand.
Plus, Taylor Swift appearing at the VMAs a day after endorsing Kamala Harris. Trump says he prefers Brittany Mahomes anyway. Okay. Well, now, her husband, star quarterback Patrick Mahomes, has a response. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
Well, the shoe appears to now be on the other foot. It is Donald Trump who is now facing the barrage of bad press after his debate performance. The man who once boasted about knocking Joe Biden out of the race seemed like he wished it was still Joe Biden next to him last night. But, of course, it wasn't. Harris even reminded him of that mid-debate. And now, she wants to remind him of that again. Her campaign wants round two. Donald Trump? He's not so sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're looking at it. But, you know, when you win, you don't really necessarily have to do it a second time. So, we'll see. Are we going to do a rematch? I just don't know. I would do NBC. I'd do Fox, too. I'd do Fox, too. But, right now, we have to determine whether or not we even want to do it. We had a great night last night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: You know, his allies, though, they don't agree. They don't think he had the great night he speaks of. In fact, several people around Trump are telling CNN that they were totally, well, stunned at his failure to push back against Harris.
Now, even if you have the debate on mute, the body language, well, that told quite a story, didn't it? Harris placing her hand under her chin at one point appearing in disbelief and utterly bemused by the entire thing. And when it was Harris talking, well, Trump, his own language of his body did the talking. He was fuming at times. All that was maybe missing was a little bit of steam coming out of his ears.
Now, the 67 million people who watched last night not only saw the split screen, but more importantly, they heard it, too. And where Biden had struggled to make the case, Harris seemed to excel in those direct areas. Just remember what Biden was like against Trump in that debate. Here's just one example on immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And I'm going to continue to move until we get the total ban on the total initiative relative to what we're going to do with more border patrol and more asylum officers.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): President Trump?
TRUMP: I really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don't think he knows what he said either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: On effectively the same question, Harris used her time as an opportunity to say this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to actually do something really unusual, and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies, because it's a really interesting thing to watch. You will see, during the course of his rallies, he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk about windmills cause cancer. And what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, that set Trump offward into a kind of downward spiral. Instead of hammering Harris for not explaining her policy changes or the administration's handling of immigration issues or the economy, he delivered a performance that had Republicans sounding a lot like Democrats did after the first debate. Senator Lindsey Graham reportedly describing it as a -- quote -- "disaster."
Joining me now, White House correspondent for Politico, Eli Stokols, Republican lawyer and political strategist Mehek Cooke, and Democratic strategist Chuck Rocha. So glad all of you are here. Everyone was burning the midnight oil thinking about the debate, watching the debate. It was highly anticipated. It was contentious at a lot of different moments in time. The audience of the electorate, they wanted to hear substance. We also wanted to see what their temperaments were going to be like.
Chuck, on this, I mean, Kamala Harris, she baited him a number of times, whether it was on issues of not just crowd size, but boredom and irritation or exhaustion. I mean, she was really trying to make sure she got under his skin. And yet, he fell for it, time and time again. Why do you think he did?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR FOR BERNIE SANDERS'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS: Because that's who he is. And for those of us who've actually done debate prep in a presidential race, it was 101. I was home last night. I like to do my debate by myself because I get a little animated. That won't shock a lot of folks who are watching this right now.
(LAUGHTER)
But I've been in the room. You want to take the first 45 seconds and say what you want to say no matter what the question is. And in this instance, she saved the last 40 seconds to bait him in when he could have responded with something would be like, no, no, no, she's not telling the truth, what about this on the border or what about this on abortion or what about -- instead, she baited him every time at the end.
[23:05:03]
Notice at the end what -- every one of her responses was. There was a little nugget of cheese that was just laid on the floor to see if he was scurry over there and grab it up. And every time, he ran right over there.
COATES: Well, let me play some of those examples of those little cheese nuggets. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: His former secretary of defense has said the nation, the republic, would never survive another Trump term.
TRUMP: You take a guy like Esper. He was no good. I fired him.
HARRIS: World leaders are laughing at Donald Trump.
TRUMP: Let me just tell you about world leaders. Victor Orban, one of the most respected men, they call him a strong man. He's a tough person.
HARRIS: People start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom.
TRUMP: People don't leave my rallies. We have the biggest rallies, the most incredible rallies in the history of politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, heck, there were instances when he did talk about her policies and did go back on track with what I'm sure he was prepped with. But he also was baited, and he fell for it a number of times. When you were watching this, what was your reaction to the fact that he did it consistently?
MEHEK COOKE, REPUBLICAN LAWYER AND POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Laura, there's no doubt that Kamala Harris baited President Trump. But what was shocking to me was what the ABC moderators did. They continued to ask Kamala Harris questions, but she didn't answer a single question. The most important question is, were you better off than you were four years ago? Kamala Harris didn't answer that. She talked about being from the middle class and went into her story.
What we want today as voters, what you and I want, millions of Americans watching, is her policies and her changes. And she refused to address the American people. And you know who the biggest loser was? Wasn't Kamala Harris, wasn't President Trump. It's the American people that are dying today to pay their grocery, their gas, their utility, the flip-flop that Kamala Harris has done.
And believe me, I don't call it a flip-flop. Many people in the media do. I call it straight lies because she can't tell us what changed. And now, tell me, it's three years, 1,300 days as the vice president, tell me why you want to frack in Pennsylvania? Tell me why you're not opening up those jobs in the Keystone Pipeline? So, I think Americans today truly lost as they watched that debate. There's no winner. That's the sad part about this.
COATES: Well, let me bring you in here because when you think about some of the complaints that people have in criticism, a lot of what she just described hearkens back to the failure to do more interviews, to be called on a number of issues. And also, by the way, both campaigns have been criticized for not being granular in their detail and making bald assertions or I think the word that Senator J.D. Vance used last night, platitudes. Both have been criticized for that. But on the notion of digging in to get that granular detail, did they succeed on either side?
ELI STOKOLS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: COOKE: Well, I don't think that was Kamala Harris's strategy. I think she had a strategy, and she executed. I've talked to a lot of her team today, and they said -- I mean, they're thrilled with how things went. But she had to do a lot of different things, and they believe that she did them. She had to introduce herself to people.
COATES: She literally did that at the beginning.
STOKOLS: She did that, but she did it in broad strokes. It's true. I mean, she started the debate talking about her economic plan, and she ticked off specific things she wants to do. Did she answer for the Biden economic record? No, she did not. She didn't talk about inflation numbers. She didn't do that.
But she did lay out a couple of things she wants to do related to, you know, building more housing, helping small business owners, extending the child tax credit. That was how she started the debate. She didn't speak in big, you know, sweeping terms. She started actually with a bullet point of her economic policy. It was her policy, though. It wasn't the Biden-Harris policy. It's what she wants to do in the next four years.
And I think it was very important to her to sort of embody this -- this change mantra to be the change candidate on the stage. That's tricky to do when you're the incumbent vice president. But the way she was able to do that was to focus so much attention on former President Trump, reminding people what he was like, reminding people how easily he gets knocked off course.
And at the end of the day, she could present herself in broad strokes as the normal one, the tough one. I mean, she laid it to him pretty good. She was the tough one, the normal one. And I think, you know, she can build on that over the next two months as she goes out on the trail.
COATES: Well, we're not even opining here about what we think voters would want more of. I mean, there was even a focus group, a number of voters who were asked about what they thought of the debate and what they want going forward. We're talking about the what. They also want to know the how. How are you going to do it?
And, in fact, several undecided voters actually were telling CNN's John King they wanted to hear more policy specifics from Harris. One voter saying Kamala Harris says she wants to lift up the middle class, but how? Another voter saying there wasn't enough substance on how to continue moving forward. And, of course, the Harris campaign, Chuck, is now pushing for another debate.
But I have to say, the debate format is not necessarily the ideal forum to go into that specific detail. I mean, the word debate itself as opposed to lecture tells you everything you want to know. Is a debate the best vehicle or is it something else?
ROCHA: Sixty-seven million people watch that. You know how much that would cost if you bought that on CNN? A lot of money.
(LAUGHTER)
That's what it would cost.
[23:10:00]
And you get a chance to do what you want to do. I don't care what you ask me in a debate. I know what I'm going to say. I'm going to drive the message. To Eli's point, she stood up to him last night, which was the biggest thing.
If presidential elections were about policy briefs, Donald Trump would have never got elected in 2016. He got elected because people wanted something different. Guess what? Joe Biden didn't have a big policy book either. He got elected because he wasn't Donald Trump.
The American people, take it from the political consultant, they want somebody they trust and they like. Sure, we could talk about policy with congressional races and Senate races, but at the end of the day, they want somebody that'll stand up to him, run and chase him around the podium, make him shake their hand, take him on toe to toe, and then they'll make their decisions. It ain't about the deep details. It's the exception, not the rule on these undecided voters.
COATES: Well, speaking of trust, I want you to weigh in here as well. I mean, Trump and his allies are upset about the fact-checking in this. And there were a lot of fact-checking about statements that were made. And I think, according to CNN's count, Trump said at least 33 different lies, including one that has thrust a community now into the spotlight in the middle of a very ugly political scene. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: A lot of towns don't want to talk about it because they're so embarrassed by it. In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats. They're eating -- they're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's happening in our country, and it's a shame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Heck, many people looked at the vice president's face, and it encapsulated how they felt about, A, the topic, B, the manner in which this trope is being described or in any way conveyed. Are you concerned about this particular aspect of it when an immigration debate or immigration policy for distinctions could be flushed out by Harris, could be flushed out by Trump? But this is the tactic. Why?
COOKE: Laura, I'm a legal immigrant, born in India, I always say made in America, and I'll tell you, I live 45 minutes from Springfield, and I'm really sad to say it took a discussion about cats on a debate stage to truly highlight what's happening across our country today.
We have over 11 million illegal immigrants, but let's just go down to Springfield, 45 minutes from where I live today. It is a town with less than 50,000 people. Let me tell you, 20,000 Haitians who have been giving temporary permanent status. As an attorney, TPS should have never been granted to Haitian immigrants today.
COATES: Why?
COOKE: Because we don't have the infrastructure, and we don't have the capabilities. We are being overrun, not only at our southern border, but now, people are being flown into our country. What we should have done is waited and gone through an asylum process.
Do you know how many people are waiting in that line? Millions of people that have applied for asylum. I've worked on general mutilation cases. Those are the people that I want to save, not people that are saying, and I've talked to people, I've gone to the border the same number of times Kamala Harris has, and you know what the Haitian immigrants tell me? I say, why are you coming here? They say asylum. I said, tell me what that means to you. Religious persecution. What are you running from? We want the American dream. My God, so do I.
And that's what President Trump believes in. But we need to do it legally. This small town doesn't have the infrastructure, the hospital, the police. And now, we have created a crisis because these individuals cannot speak English. So, we have a very uncomfortable situation. And we need to embrace immigrants. People embraced me. But it's about assimilation today. We're lacking that, in addition to the illegal immigration crisis. COATES: Well, a couple of things, Mehek. You seem to be conflating a number of things. You began by talking about you being a legal immigrant. You described TSP and TPS as being part of the same phenomenon of it. But then assimilation being discussed on it.
Chuck, when you hear about the issues related to immigration, the way in which she has articulated her position, frankly, could have been articulated by those who take issue with the immigration policies by Democrats. Instead, it was a discussion about the boogeyman and otherism and somebody purportedly eating pets, which by the way, there is no actual evidence of that happening. But it creates the fearmongering and the otherism and seems to conflate who ought to be here and who shouldn't be here. And by the way, you know this, there's no official language in America.
ROCHA: We should have a debate if we want to have a debate about our failed immigration system. My family is a family of immigrants. (INAUDIBLE) the largest immigrant-owned political consult firm in the country. My business partner is a TPS holder. She graduated from high school in California, she graduated from college, and she has been working for me for eight years still under TPS because she is from El Salvador. What we have done is --
COATES: Which is legal, by the way, TPS, right?
ROCHA: Legal. Absolutely. Absolutely legal, right? And she is a --
COOKE: There are some people who come under TPS status who are not legal. So, there are two different branches here. Some do get legal status. Some come here illegally, and then get TPS.
ROCHA: We should have this debate about the system. The system is broken. There was a bill put through Congress by a Republican senator that was giving folks tough on the border, making sure we can start fixing the system. But because political parties have used this as a political football, it has left real people in limbo.
[23:15:02]
But last night, this is the point, we didn't have this debate. We were talking about eating cats and dogs and Black immigrants in a small rural town which is dangerous, by the way, when you say that to 67 million people on TV, because that will trigger crazy people to go do what they did in El Paso and take a gun to a Walmart.
COATES: We have more time. This cannot be resolved. And I'll bring you back in the conversation, of course, as well. The issue of immigration, I think, is one that needs to be tackled and discussed, but it seems very counterintuitive to insert the oddities into the conversation that could otherwise be substantive. Stand by, everyone.
Breaking news, a flash flood emergency in New Orleans tonight. The storm that hit Louisiana as a Category 2 hurricane now downgraded to a tropical storm just moments ago. But there are still evacuations across the coastline and multiple parishes in the state of power outages, topping more than 50% of customers. I want to bring in CNN's Michael Yoshida, who is in New Orleans as we speak. Michael, please stay safe as you continue to bring us the news. What is it like where you are right now?
MICHAEL YOSHIDA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Laura, yeah, we're right here in the heart of New Orleans, right by Jackson Square, for those who are familiar with it, very touristy, historical spot. You can see the rains for the most part let up, but we still have these strong wind gusts. You talked about those power outages. You can see we have power here in the French Quarter, but those outages starting to rise throughout the city, across the state. At last check, we had more than 240,000 outages.
And looking across the city throughout the evening, I want to show you this. We've seen businesses that decided to leave the signs up. Winds down a little right now, but they've really been battered by this. You can see some of the cables still hanging down as a result of those strong gusts we've seen throughout the evening.
Of course, it wasn't just the wind causing issues. We've also seen that steady rainfall. Officials were warning about that throughout the last few days, about how no matter how good of a drain system you have, you get so much amount of rain in such a short time, you're going to have those flooding concerns.
That emergency you talked about here in the New Orleans area, just a short time, the police department again warning people, stay home. We don't want you out on those roads. We have flooded underpasses, flooded streets. So, that's the message tonight here in New Orleans. Even though it seems like the storm is moving on, hunker down until the morning.
COATES: Michael Yoshida, thank you so much for bringing us the very latest. Look, it may have been a cruel summer for Democrats right after President Biden's debate, but Harris's performance and, frankly, a huge endorsement, has given them a reason, well, to do this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: Taylor Swift telling Donald Trump, look what you made me do. Last night, the megastar almost eclipsing the debate when she endorsed Harris to her 283 million Instagram followers, saying in her post, Harris is -- quote -- "a steady-handed, gifted leader" and that she's speaking out in part because of an earlier Trump post that she endorsed him. Now, Swift is setting the record straight in her full post. And tonight, Swift making her first appearance since the endorsement at the MTV Video Music Awards where, so far, she's won seven awards, including Video of the Year.
And if you're watching it tonight, like I was with my kids, yes, it was, oh, a long time ago when you had about almost 40 years, when you had Madonna and her "Like A Virgin" performance. Yeah, I felt old, too. Thanks.
Also, now the question is, how is the endorsement going to impact and actually influence the campaign? Well, the one and only CNN's Harry Enten is at the magic wall for me. Harry, how you doing?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Laura, it is so lovely to be back with you and even more lovely to be talking about one of my favorite persons in the entire world, Taylor Swift. Of course, last evening, she endorsed Kamala Harris for president and urged her own fans to go out and register to vote.
So, the question is, will this have any impact? I think it might. All right, so let's talk about registrations first. You know, in her Instagram post, Taylor Swift posted a link in there urging her fans to go out and register to vote. How many folks actually clicked on that link? Get this, nearly 340,000. That was just as of 2 p.m. today. Clicked on that link that took them to vote.gov.
Now, I'm not so surprised that so many people clicked on that particular link because the fact of the matter is, in the past, Taylor Swift has actually shown that she can move voter registrations. Look back at 2023 when she posted on Instagram and urged her fans to go out there and register to vote. In 2023, on National Voter Registration Day, voter registrations were up 23% versus 2022. So, Swift does have an impact in terms of voter registration.
But voter registration is one thing. How about convincing those in the electorate who are already registered to vote -- to vote for a different candidate? Well, if there is one person who can move folks, it's Taylor Swift. Look at the net favorability ratings. Donald Trump, underwater, minus six points. Kamala Harris, right about even at minus one point. But Taylor Swift blows them all away with a net favorability rating of plus 22 points. My goodness gracious, she's more popular than pretty much any politician out there.
Now, one little last nugget for you. You know Donald Trump says that Taylor Swift will probably pay a price for her political endorsement of Kamala Harris.
[23:25:00]
But has she paid a price for her past political endorsements? Nah. In 2018 and 2020, she endorsed Democrats for office, including Joe Biden in 2020. And then last year, guess what? For the first time, she made the Forbes billionaire list. So, it hasn't hurt her bottom line so far. And the bottom line when it comes to you, Laura Coates, is mwah, you're beautiful. Back to you. (LAUGHTER)
COATES: Oh, I like that bottom line. I'm going to put that on loop in my home. Thank you so much, Harry. So good to see you, my friend. Well, just moments ago, Taylor Swift sang this at the MTV VMAs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER-SONGWRITER: If you are over 18, please register to vote for something else that's very important coming up: The 2024 presidential election. I love you all so, so much.
(APPLAUSE)
COATES: My panel is back with me now. I mean, Mehek, you heard Harry Enten. More than 300,000 people went to vote.gov today to register. I don't know actually how to follow the thread. Do they really do it or not? But they're going there. They have that in mind. Does it speak to you the power of this endorsement in particular and do you see a lot of weight behind her being the one in particular to do it?
COOKE: Look, I don't put a lot of weight behind Taylor Swift. And I will tell you, I love Taylor Swift's music, I will continue going to her concerts, but in terms of celebrities moving the needle today, it's just like the Joy campaign. They're not paying our grocery bills, they're not paying our gas, they're not paying our utilities. And today, for celebrities to do endorsements when Americans are hurting the most, it's not going to move the needle.
I do think she's going to motivate people to register to vote, but I do believe there's an opportunity also today for Republicans to reach out and say, we are the party of the American dream progress, and are you better off than you were four years ago? Many of these young voters, Laura, cannot afford a home today, cannot afford even a used car.
We're the party of opportunity, and I think that this speaks volumes for anybody that's looking for a home in a political party. President Trump has expanded that. Look at Democrats like RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard. Lots of people are looking at the Republican Party as the American dream.
COATES: You're smiling wide.
ROCHA: I'm just smiling because we got Taylor Swift, and they got RFK and Tulsi. We win. We just freaking win right there on the bottom line.
(LAUGHTER)
Does she move the needle? Does she -- I'd rather have Taylor Swift than not have her. I've done voter registration my entire life. I've never seen almost 400,000 people in 24 hours. Wait till Beyonce endorses. We're going to blow the roof off this whole place. I'm just saying, this is excitement. It doesn't equate to votes, but it does equate back to the momentum that we've been talking about. And I would rather have that, trying to talk to young women out there, especially my new wife, who is very much a Swiftie, who I'm on air right now saying, I love the Taylor Swiftie, even though I might've said something about her singing back in the day. I'm on board. I'm all in.
(LAUGHTER)
COATES: Happy wife, happy life, I'm a very smart man. But the idea of the endorsement is one thing. But then, people want them to campaign with them. I mean, there is a way to be even more involved. I think if you are a candidate, you want not just the endorsement, you want something more with the following like that.
But you heard Trump today. And before I get there, I'm going to talk about what Senator J.D. Vance had to say because she signed her endorsement, Childless Cat Lady. Obviously, she was going directly at Senator J.D. Vance, who responded like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We admire Taylor Swift's music, but I don't think most Americans, whether they like her music or fans of hers or not, are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who, I think, is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: By the way, they loved hearing from Elon Musk, who I think might fit the very description they just said about Taylor Swift.
STOKOLS: J.D. Vance looks like he was grinning like he's winning, but might be dealing with a broken heart.
(LAUGHTER)
I would apologize.
COATES: I see you did that, see? There you go.
STOKOLS: My wife has had quite the influence on me, too, I will say. You know, let's talk about this. This is a completely different election with Kamala Harris on top of the ticket than Joe Biden. Taylor Swift might've endorsed Joe Biden, but it wouldn't have felt as sort of genuine as her post last night, which had some bite to it, had a little edge, (INAUDIBLE) her back at J.D. Vance. But --
COATES: And the timing of it, actually the --
STOKOLS: Obviously, she knows how to pick her spots, that is true. But the thing about this, Joe Biden had a lot of success with older white voters in swing states. Kamala Harris maybe not doing quite as well with some of those voters. Are they going to be persuaded by Taylor Swift? Probably not. But how do you offset those votes? If you get younger people to turn out and you sort of catalyze a real enthusiasm for some a candidate who embodies change, who seems like a new thing in an era that has been defined by Donald Trump and Joe Biden, then maybe those 300,000 people who went to register to vote today, maybe that continues to crest, maybe there's more people, maybe young people actually turn out for her in a way that they wouldn't for Joe Biden, and maybe that makes up a difference.
I would say, at the end of the day, the Harris people, I mean, they're selling friendship bracelets on the campaign website right now.
COATES: They sold out.
STOKOLS: They are -- they are going to leverage this. This isn't -- you know, is it going to be the difference maker? Probably not. But is it going to help on the margins? Absolutely.
[23:30:00]
And is this election going to be decided on the margins? You talk to most people, they will say --
(CROSSTALK)
ROCHA: -- still be friends.
COATES: Well, I was going to say -- I was going to say the whole point because Trump actually mentioned his reaction. Obviously, we know there's a friendship. There's a sweet sharing of some type between, obviously, the quarterback, Patrick Mahomes, and his wife, and Taylor and her boyfriend, Travis Kelce. But listen to what Trump had to say about the fact that he wasn't getting the endorsement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I actually like Mrs. Mahomes much better, if you want to know the truth. She's a big Trump fan. I was not a Taylor Swift fan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Okay. Meanwhile, Pat Mahomes was then asked about that. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK MAHOMES, QUARTERBACK, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: I've always said I don't want -- I don't want my place and my platform to be used to endorse a candidate or do whatever each -- either way. I think my place is to inform people to get registered to vote, is to inform people to do their own research, and then make their best decision for them and their family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Which, by the way, is what she said in her actual endorsement. Is this a watered- down version now of the big endorsement and the 10- foot pole from people?
ROCHA: Can we please bring this back to my high school football career and let people know that --
COATES: Yes, Chuck, go ahead.
ROCHA: -- I like talking about playing football?
COATES: Yes.
ROCHA: Is that I played football against Patrick Mahomes's daddy in East Texas. You should all know that. His daddy's name is Pat Mahomes. He played at Lindell High School. I played at Brownsboro. We played against each other. I remember you, Pat. Anyway --
(LAUGHTER)
ROCHA: -- it says a lot for him to be doing that. And he comes from a long line of good, old boys in East Texas like me. And I think you want to put him between him and his wife, talking about our wives a while ago, I think he did the right thing there by going, I'm just going to play some football.
COOKE: Well, but I think he said something important there. He said people should do their research. And I think now more than ever, media's job was always to deliver the news. And I think that they've put a thumb on the scale. So, it's really important for people to do their research.
And we keep talking about being a change agent. New York and Sienna just came out with a poll. Ninety-two percent of people want to change agent. And guess what? Six out of 10 voters are still saying President Trump is that change agent on the economy.
And you don't have to hear it from me. Just go look at your bank accounts, go look at your 401K, go look at your grocery bills. When you were trying to pay for eggs that were 99 cents and now they're over 250, your gas bill, $1.87, now you're paying over $5 in some of these swing states, you know that there's a clear difference. And the easiest question is, are you better off than you were four years ago?
ROCHA: Yeah.
COOKE: This isn't a personality contest.
ROCHA: Yeah. I heard they're leaving your rallies early. Just saying.
(LAUGHTER)
COOKE: Well, you're not going to bait me on that one, Chuck. I'm way too smart with that.
COATES: Well, that says it all about who was baited last night on that very point.
COOKE: Well, and I said he took a lot of bait, but at the end of the day, he still delivered his policy and about the American dream and immigration and the economy, and she failed.
ROCHA: And tonight, we're talking about Taylor Swift.
COATES: Well, you know what? There's a lot more that both candidates need to do in the next 55 days. Obviously, this is one data point. But then the work has to be done. And I think the battle is still uphill for both because the electorate wants to lean in. Thank you so much, everyone.
New tonight, a major change coming for next year's January 6 election certification, the extraordinary measure that will be taken as Donald Trump continues to cast doubt on the vote. Michigan's top election official, who is now at risk of prosecution, he says, if Trump wins, joins me next.
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[23:35:00]
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COATES: New tonight, the federal government taking new steps to prevent another attack at the Capitol when the election is certified, God forbid. Congress will get increased federal security for the election certification on January 6th of 2025. It will be designated a National Special Security Event with Secret Service leading the way. This comes as the former president keeps lying about the election and backpedaling from his own statement that he lost the 2020 election -- quote -- "by a whisker."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MUIR, ABC ANCHOR: Are you now acknowledging that you lost in 2020?
TRUMP: No, I don't acknowledge that at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, that lie helped fuel the siege on January 6th. And today, six secretaries of state, including my next guest, testified at a House committee hearing that the rampant lies about the election are fueling threats and harassment of election workers all across this country. But some lawmakers, they had other issues on their mind.
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UNKNOWN (voice-over): So, do you have deceased people on your voter rolls? Yes or no?
JOCELYN BENSON, SECRETARY OF STATE, MICHIGAN: We vigorously --
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yes or no?
BENSON: If we do everything we can, and just like every other state, to remove it, we actually -- UNKNOWN (voice-over): Should a deceased person be on your voter roll?
BENSON: No, and that's why we remove them once we receive information.
UNKNOWN: Great. Should an illegal person who is in this country illegally vote in any election?
BENSON: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So really kind of test to interrogating at that point when they're asking the questions they want to hear themselves. Joining me now, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson. Madam Secretary, thank you so much for being with me this evening. We're talking about that countdown clock and, of course, who's on the top of the ticket and who might win. But democracy doesn't guarantee you vote for the winner. It allows access and the opportunity to actually have a chance to participate. And I wonder what kind of threats you and election officials are facing at a time like this.
JOCELYN BENSON, SECRETARY OF STATE, MICHIGAN: Well, thanks for having me. And it is really a moment of intense hypervigilance as we brace ourselves for the impact of the false rhetoric and the vitriol that really has become omnipresent in our systems. And we're professionals, we're bipartisan, we love our jobs. We just want everyone to vote and to count every valid vote. That's what we show up every day in order to make real for everyone.
[23:39:53]
And so, to be constantly, you know, impacted by this barrage of threats that come as a result of these lies from a former president who's unable to accept that he lost an election, is really demoralizing, but at the same time doesn't change our commitment and our resolve to just do our jobs with integrity and to stand up, you know, against anyone who's going to try and threaten us, and stand firm. We won't back down. We're going to do our jobs and we're going to make sure our results are accurate.
COATES: It must be a little bit of attrition at the very least for people who are thinking of themselves. You know, I'm just trying to have a public service, my civic duty. I want to help. We know how valuable election officials and poll workers can be. And yet, you look at the cost-benefit analysis of safety as one of the costs. That must be very, very demotivating people to continue in the work.
BENSON: Absolutely, it is. And we have seen a lot of turnover in our profession, particularly in Arizona and Nevada, where you see a lot of new election workers coming to replace vacancies. But the bottom line is that the same time we've seen that attrition, we've also seen an enormous number of American people on both sides of the aisle step up and step into the breach in this moment.
COATES: Hmm. BENSON: And that's who I'm really proud to stand arm in arm with in this moment. The idea that we, as professionals, can work to ensure the basics of democracy work for everyone. We see our responsibility as paramount because in this moment, if we shirk that responsibility, then the entire American promise of democracy falls apart.
So, we embrace the moment and our responsibility and have even become emboldened as a result of all this spotlight and scrutiny on our work, we've become more transparent and dedicated than ever before, and as a result, I think Americans will see our elections are even more secure and accurate and accessible and fair in this election than in any other.
COATES: And yet, Madam Secretary, you've got the former president doubling down on his lies about winning the election. He did not. But also, the threats to prosecute who he thinks might be complicit in this delusional lie about our elections not having any integrity. How do you respond?
BENSON: It's, again, really sad, frankly, and disheartening. It's not easy to show up to work every day knowing that because people here and maybe even believe these lies, these meritless threats about our integrity, that they will then try to exact some sort of revenge on the former president's behalf.
I started my career investigating extremist organizations. We know there's a direct line to that hateful rhetoric to violence oftentimes. And, of course, we saw that unfolded our Capitol on January 6th. And so, we are worried that all of this vitriol, all this noise will translate into someone getting hurt or worse, and that's what we're on you know alert for.
We're also preparing for it. We've been partnering with law enforcement and first responders. We've strengthened our laws to make it a crime to threaten an election official in Michigan. And so, a number of things we're doing make us more prepared to respond to these threats. But it's still just un-American at the end of the day that these professionals who, you know, simply just want to protect democracy, we're afraid to go grocery shopping, we're afraid to take our kid to school because we don't know what might be lurking behind the bushes because someone has heard a lie about our work and wants to sort of respond to it.
COATES: Let's talk about who's actually on the ballot as well because, you know, obviously, voters are going to see who they'd like to vote for. One person who wants his name removed from Michigan's ballot is RFK Jr. He is now a Trump supporter, having dropped out of the race. Your office refused to remove him from that ballot. The Michigan Supreme Court said that his name will, in fact, remain. Is that the right ruling? And why are you refusing to take him off?
BENSON: Well, the bottom line is the law is very clear. I actually sympathize with the argument that if you withdraw, you should be able to remove your name. But Michigan law actually says explicitly, you cannot withdraw once you've accepted a minor party's nomination for the presidency. And the reason that is, is to protect against fraud, just someone sort of coming in and trying to stymie a minor party or third-party effort by accepting a nomination, and then as soon as it's done, withdrawing and having their name taken off, and that means then that party, the third party, won't have anyone on the ballot.
So, it's in our law to protect against fraud, to protect third parties. And my job is simply just to call the balls and strikes with the referees, and that's what we did here and that's why his name will be on the ballot.
COATES: Cornel West can also stay on the ballot after your office argued he was ineligible because of paperwork issues.
BENSON: Uh-hmm.
COATES: What were the reasons he was ineligible and have they come to the right decision on that?
BENSON: There is an affidavit issue where the signature and the notarization was false and problematic and didn't comply with our laws. However, the court found that because enough signatures were submitted, that the affidavit wasn't necessary. And that was something we were grateful for. That's how the process works. The courts can weigh in and provide that clarification, and then we'll comply with that and he will be on the ballot.
COATES: Madam Secretary, your office, though, has been accused, as frankly other secretaries have been, when following the laws that might be unknown to different voters, that you have your thumb on the scale and you're trying to decide who they get to vote for as opposed to who ought to be on the ballot, according to your laws. How do you respond to fears that your office and others are putting their thumb on the scale?
[23:45:03]
BENSON: Well, it's certainly -- I understand. I mean, that's the result of a lot of the allegations, the false rhetoric, and the fears that a lot of people have because of what politicians have been saying about our work for many years now. But I would just encourage everyone to look at the facts and the evidence, and the fact that in Michigan and in many other states, our elections are transparent. We have hundreds of audits after elections that reaffirm the results of the election.
My commitment remains the same. I'm very proud that we see more people voting in Michigan than ever before on both sides of the aisle. That's really why I signed up to do this job, to make sure no matter who someone votes for or how they choose to cast their ballot, that their vote can count and they can have confidence in their voice in the process. And I'm proud that the work we've done in Michigan and the facts and the evidence lay that out clearly, and I think you'll see that among the professional bipartisan election workers in all the battleground states.
COATES: Well, I wish you a heck of a vacation after the election season.
(LAUGHTER)
Thank you so much, Madam Secretary, for joining me this evening.
BENSON: Thanks for having me.
COATES: Well, Kamala Harris is far and away being dubbed last night's debate winner. But what does it mean for chances of winning in November? Historian Doris Kearns Goodwin is here to give us some context, next.
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[23:50:00]
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COATES: Well, Donald Trump is trying to put some spin on his performance last night, and I'm talking about some major spin. He's trying to claim that he won the debate. That's despite the overwhelming consensus hailing Harris as the victor. And that said, we have seen this play out before. Try, well, 2016.
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UNKNOWN: Hillary won the debate on points. She was so articulate and well prepared.
UNKNOWN: It seemed like she won.
UNKNOWN: I think Clinton clearly won, but I -- you know, she won on points. She was the more comfortable, the more prepared, and the more upbeat even.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yeah, she won that debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, as we know, Hillary Clinton did not win in 2016, even though she was largely seen as the winner of all three of her debates against Trump. So how should we put last night's debate in the context of history and what could it possibly mean for this November?
Well, who better to ask than presidential historian Doris Kearns Goodwin? She is the author of "An Unfinished Love Story: A Personal History of the 1960s." And her newest book, "The Leadership Journey: How Four Kids Became President." You know what? It's out today and it's right here in my hands as well. Doris, it's wonderful. I'll get to that in just a moment.
But I have to ask you about the context here of what we saw last night. In 2016, many saw Hillary Clinton as the clear debate victor. She went on to, though, lose the election to Donald Trump. How much a debate wins translate to election wins? DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, AUTHOR, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I can give you another precedent that I think is a story to tell, which is that in 1960, it was absolutely clear that Kennedy beat Nixon in that first debate. He looked better. Nixon was sweating. Nixon's answers were not as clear as Kennedy's. Kennedy had practiced a lot more than Nixon had.
And after it was over, my husband was one of the three people that prepared Kennedy for that debate, they were in the plane on the way back, Kennedy was relaxing, having tomato soup and beer, his favorite relaxation, and going over very coolly how he could have done better with Sorenson, his main speechwriter, and my husband was young, and he blurted out, no, we won, we won the whole thing, we won the election. And Kennedy just looked over and smiled with more of a veteran's eye, and he said, we better get some sleep, we have a long way to go.
And what did happen, however, was that it did increase morale and momentum for Kennedy, and he did go ahead at that point. But then a little bit later, Eisenhower finally campaigned. Nixon finally broke down and asked his help, the president who was so popular, and then Kennedy's polls started going down again. He finally did squeak out a victory. But so many things can happen between the debate and the election.
But what is happening, I think, is that it gives you a feeling of wind behind your back if you're the one who was seen to win. So, when you go out on the campaign trail, you're going to feel better rather than feeling like I didn't do as well as I hoped I would have.
COATES: It's an important point in context to think about the work still to be done. And we are in a different era of debates. I mean, you have 2016, you saw a town hall where -- in a style where Trump followed Clinton around the stage. Now, we're seeing muted microphones and candidates at their podiums. They have no audience as well. What did you make of the temperament that was on stage last night, which is every bit as important for voters as the substance?
KEARNS GOODWIN: I actually think it's the most important thing, that what you're really looking at when you're voting for a candidate is who has the temperament to govern well. And you do express it to some extent, the way you talk in a debate. Temperament means, do you have humility? Suppose you could acknowledge an error in the middle of the debate. They never do that. And yet that's the one thing that people like hearing. When John Kennedy admitted that he had screwed up in the Bay of Pigs, his approval rating went to 83%.
So, I was wondering last night when they were asked about Afghanistan or asked about January 6th. They could have had regrets even if they didn't change their mind about the decisions. But somehow, candidates feel they shouldn't do that. It makes them look weak. I think it's just the opposite.
You're looking for whether they have a sense of humor, whether they can laugh at themselves. You're looking at how they tell the truth and how much they're really accessible when they're talking to people. Do people feel you're on their side? All those things are part of the character of the person, and that's really the most important thing we need to know about a person when they're going to be president of the United States.
COATES: Perfect segue into your book, "The Leadership Journey: How Four Kids Became President." It's really wonderful to read.
[23:54:56]
And you tell the stories of these four kids, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson, before they were these larger than life figures. It's written for younger kids. But I think it goes into, as you're talking about even today, the composition of a person, how they become who they are. Why did you feel the need to write this?
KEARNS GOODWIN: Well, it just made me feel so heartbreaking when I hear about history being diminished in schools right now, not being taught as much, and kids not knowing what you would hope they would know about civics. So, I thought what we could do is if you chose to write about stories about my four presidents, the ones I lived with the most, Abraham Lincoln and the two Roosevelts and Lyndon Johnson, when they were young, then young people can see them making mistakes, acknowledging those mistakes, growing as leaders. You can see the curiosities they had when they were young, and maybe there's some that you are similar to.
For example, Teddy Roosevelt loved birds even when he was young, and he becomes the great conservation president. Franklin Roosevelt loves stamps, and he maps, and he becomes president, and that becomes so important in World War II. You see whether they had empathy when they were young. Lincoln probably had it from birth. He carried a bird that had fallen out of its nest into a nest because he couldn't bear to think of the bird being hurt. There was a friend of his who was making fun of stuttering person, and he went and defended the person, and they started -- stopped bullying him as a result.
So, you see characteristics in the young people that need to be developed and expanded, and maybe by not seeing these presidents as icons, not seeing them on Mount Rushmore, but seeing them as kids, they can identify which qualities do they have, which qualities can I develop.
One of my favorite stories is George Bush's mother. One time when he came home, she said, how did you do in the game? And he said, I made three goals. And she said, yes, dear, but did the team win? That was more important.
COATES: Hmm, so powerful to think about, especially as a mother like myself, the lessons I can impart on my kids. Thank you for yet another moment to have that teachable moment with the child. And, of course, we're all young at heart to read it. Doris Kearns Goodwin, thank you so much.
KEARNS GOODWIN: Thank you, Laura.
COATES: The book again is called "The Leadership Journey." Hey, thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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