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Laura Coates Live
High Winds Could Cause Extreme Fire Behavior In L.A.; Dem Hopes Of Derailing Hegseth Fading Fast; Trump's A.G. Pick Pam Bondi To Face Senate Grilling; Michelle Obama To Skip Trump's Inauguration; Firefighters Recover Woman's Wedding Band. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired January 14, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): She's going to keep saying trans, trans, trans so that people will feel threatened and -- child, listen, I watch --
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): I am no child. Do not call me a child. I am no child.
CROCKETT: I want to find out --
MACE: Don't even start. I'm a grown woman.
CROCKETT: -- which of those emails actually has --
(CROSSTALK)
-- my time.
MACE: If you want to take it outside --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Ladies and gentlemen, your Congress at work. Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." CNN's coverage with "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to "Laura Coates Live." Firefighters are on alert for potential flare ups around L.A. Powerful winds that could kick up embers and spark new fires, that are still a threat for the next 24 hours. But, so far, the gusts have actually not been as strong as they feared.
Now, investigators are trying to get to the bottom of the question that's on everyone's mind. How did all of this happen? What started the two most destructive fires in Southern California history?
Now, we know the dry brush and the high winds help fuel the flames. You can see here just how fast the Palisades Fire grew. What started more than a week ago has spread and spread and spread. It has now burned more than 23,000 acres. That's more than 37 square miles, killing at least nine people for that fire alone, scorching 5,000 structures. It's currently, this fire in particular, 18% contained.
But what was the source of that initial spark? Well, the first signs of the inferno were actually early on Tuesday, January 7th. Cal Fire says it started around 10:30 in the morning. Now, this video shows smoke rolling off the hills around the Palisades minutes after 10:30. Now, this satellite image was taken at 10:37. Now, at that point, the fire was a tiny fraction of what it would eventually go on to become.
And now, we're learning the Palisades Fire appears to have started very close to another blaze that broke out just six days earlier, on New Year's Day. This is the burned scar from that fire from a satellite image on January 1st. Here's that same burn scar on the image on the Palisades Fire. It's less than 300 yards from where it looks like the Palisades blaze began.
Now, people are asking, could the winds have rekindled smoldering debris from that New Year's Day fire? Well, agents from the ATF are trying to figure it all out. But a source tells us there is no leading theory at the moment.
And then, there's the Eaton fire. Now, Cal Fire says it started at 6:18 p.m. on Tuesday. Here's video from an Altadena resident just a minute later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Oh (bleep). Oh (bleep). Oh, no!
COATES: Now, what he's filming there is an electrical tower with flames licking away at the base of it, as you see. And that's not the only vantage point. Another nearby resident, they recorded this. It was taken around 6:24.
Now, no cause of the fire has been determined yet. But the Los Angeles Times is reporting that authorities are investigating an electrical tower as the possible origin site. The city's electric company is already facing a lawsuit, by the way. Southern California Edison says it found no problems around the time of the fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
I want to bring in CNN's Nick Watt, who's live in Pacific Palisades. Nick, there have been concerns all day about the return of those now infamous Santa Ana winds. So far, though, the gusts have not been as strong as expected. How long is that going to last?
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, hopefully, a long time. But at about 3 a.m., our time, West Coast, so 6 a.m., your time, they are forecast to pick up again.
You know, we went through this drill last night where we thought that the winds were really going to pick up in the middle of the night. You know, there was a weather forecaster on the local news who was talking about these people being at the most danger as he had his hand alarmingly over exactly where I live. So, my truck is full of couple of pictures and some stuff from my house right now. If we get through tonight, we will be good.
COATES: Hmm.
WATT: So, fingers crossed, the forecast is wrong again. I mean, it has been great news. And frankly, the Palisades Fire today has been very inactive. No real active flame. A few hot spots around the fringes that they've been really trying to damp down just in case that wind does pick up.
[23:05:03]
And, you know, another theme of the day has been, you know, Mayor Bass talking about, you know, it's time to look forward, it's time to start rebuilding. She and the governor are signing executive directives, executive orders to try and make the permitting process a lot faster, to cut a lot of the red tape which is notorious here in L.A, trying to cut a lot of that red tape so that the rebuilding can happen.
I mean, I drove along Sunset Boulevard through the Palisades earlier. You know, all the utility trucks are now there chopping up the trees that have fallen over, dealing with the gas lines, dealing with the power lines, but it is going to be a monumental task.
COATES: Hmm.
WATT: But for now, as I say, the real focus is, fingers crossed, hoping that those winds don't really pick up again tonight because, you know, a lot has burned here --
COATES: Yeah.
WATT: -- but there's still a lot of vegetation. You know, last winter, I was covering floods in Los Angeles.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
WATT: That just -- there was a bloom of growth that then dried out. A lot of that stuff is still around. So, fingers crossed.
COATES: Certainly, thinking about that, I won't forget, this is also not just a story you're covering, this is your home, and thinking about how impactful and how personal it is to you as well, Nick. And you actually spent some of the day around the trails where the Palisades Fire started.
WATT: Yeah.
COATES: We're hearing a lot about the investigation. Obviously, it's in its infancy. But what are you learning about the investigation into how this started?
WATT: Well, yeah, we are up in what is called the sort of general area of origin. It's just on this hill behind me. You see the police are here. They have not been letting anybody in. You know, normally, media are allowed anywhere in wildfires. Not here because this is a potential crime scene. So, you mentioned that previous fire, January 1st, early hours of New Year's Day, that was just over there. So, listen, that's obviously something they're looking into. Were there embers, something still burning under the ground that was then just reinvigorated by that wind?
Arson is also, obviously, on the table. You know, they had dogs out here in the past few days sniffing for accelerants. And there are also, you can't see them because it's dark, but there are two utility poles up there right now.
So, listen, what they generally try and do is, you know, kind of rule stuff out and hone in on what might the cause actually be. The other thing that they're doing right now is they're trying to get from this sort of general area of origin down to a specific area.
One investigator I spoke to today said they try and get it down to basically the size of a dinner plate. And the way that they do that is you have investigators actually on their hands and knees looking at every single piece of vegetation, every pebble, every blade of grass, figuring out which side the fire reached that particular item, and then they can map that, flag that, and try and just hone in on that area because, obviously, if you can figure out exactly where it started, that's going to be a huge help to figure out why it started. Laura?
COATES: And to hopefully prevent anything from the future with all the devastation to think that this could have begun the size of a dinner plate. Nick Watt, thank you so much for joining. Stay with us as well.
With me now, Adam VanGerpen, fire captain and spokesperson for the L.A. Fire Department. Captain, we're getting to know each other here this week and what is all that happened. What conditions are your firefighters seeing even tonight? And can you tell us what your biggest concern over the next few hours is?
ADAM VANGERPEN, CAPTAIN AND SPOKESPERSON, LOS ANGELES CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT: Yeah, so right now, our biggest concern is the winds that are anticipated to come around at 3:00 this morning. So, we're anticipating them.
We're still in red flag conditions. We're going to have some of our highest winds at 3:00 this morning until 3:00 tomorrow afternoon, and then red flag all the way through 6:00. So, our firefighters are standing by. We have 5,200 of them, are still on scene in Palisades, and we are pre-deployed all throughout the region.
COATES: That number keeps growing, of the people that you have. It tells you the scope of the fire and what the work is ahead. We've obtained some satellite images that appear to show the first plumes from the Palisades Fire starting about, what, 300 yards from a burned scar left behind by a fire on New Year's Day, of all times. Is it possible, captain, that a New Year's Day fire may be rekindled last week, causing all this?
VANGERPEN: Well, we currently have -- our ATF has come in now. ATF has been taking over the investigation. They're also working in partnership with our L.A. City Fire arson investigators, L.A. County arson investigators, LAPD, L.A. County sheriffs. A lot of different agencies are involved in this investigation, and that's going to be something that we're going to be finding out in the upcoming days and weeks.
COATES: And the ATF doesn't interfere at all with your ability to fight or strategize, right?
[23:10:02]
They're just a separate parallel investigation going on?
VANGERPEN: No, no. They bring in all the tools and equipment, and they have all the technology. And so, they brought in a very robust team and some of their specialized units that are going to be assisting us with this investigation.
COATES: Adam VanGerpen, I know your work is ahead of you. Thank you for taking the time today to speak with me.
VANGERPEN: Thank you.
COATES: Now, I want to get to California Congressman Brad Sherman, a Democrat whose district he covers, it covers most of the areas that have been impacted by the Palisades Fire. Just yesterday, he was able to tour his district to actually survey the damage.
Representative Sherman joins me now. How much devastation? It's just unbelievable to see from where we are. What did you see on the ground in your district, and tell me about the ongoing danger that's still there.
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D-CA): Well, the ongoing danger is what the firefighter was just telling you about, and that is that the winds might whip up tonight, but we're prepared and we've got enormous resources deployed.
There's also a danger if we let people go back to the community on their own. I know you can see me there, but I've got a firefighter with me there, not in the screen, making sure that I'm aware of all the dangers that are left, the power lines, the natural gas, et cetera.
But we're already focused on what it's going to take to rebuild. It's just devastating, though, to go block after block, burned out house after burned out house, and to realize that everyone in those houses is family.
COATES: Is everyone in your district accounted for? I mean, knowing that residents can't return to their homes, what's that like not knowing if every family that those homes are presented are all together?
SHERMAN: Well, we still have a few unaccounted for, people -- missing persons. We also have not been able to go into the community with, I hate to say it, cadaver dogs looking for whether there are any dead people or dead animals there. The -- you know, we have over 20 casualties between the two big fires in L.A. County, and it's -- I hate to say it, but I think we're going to discover more as we are able to go house by house, property by property.
People are anxious to get back in and see their homes, but we just don't have the resources to escort every one of them. And then you also have the risk that when you take somebody to their home just to show it to them, that they go in and refuse to leave. So, we've got to be in a position to open up the community as we make it safe. And a lot of people are, even if they -- even if they've heard that their house has been destroyed, to actually see it, it's going to be -- it's going to heart-wrenching for them.
COATES: It's overwhelming, the weight of the choices to balance the interests of the city with the interests of the people who desperately want to know what has happened to their homes, their loved ones as well.
You know, you and another -- a number of other California congresspersons have sent a letter to the president-elect, Trump, asking for aid. But a number of Republicans are saying that the fire aid should come with some kinds of conditions. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): I expect that there will be strings attached to money that is ultimately approved. There can't be a blank check on this.
MIKE JOHNSON, SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I think there should probably be conditions on that. That's my personal view.
SEN. BILL HAGERTY (R-TN): Before we put funds into place, we've got to find out exactly how we're going to hold these leaders accountable and what sort of policy changes are required.
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): They don't deserve anything, to be honest with you, unless they show us they're going to make some changes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: What do you say to those Republican colleagues, congressman?
SHERMAN: Well, you shouldn't kick -- kick us while we're down. At the same time, we'd be stupid if we didn't learn from this. Just as -- I know Speaker Johnson is from Louisiana. They have had major hurricane damage, both in Katrina and the 2020 hurricanes.
And as a country, we should insist upon building back better. And, in fact, the California law already provides that. We have a strict fire code for -- in terms of construction for any new construction after 2008, and all the people building back from this fire are going to have to meet that code. [23:14:53]
And while we don't have analysis of this fire yet, we had a major fire in Northern California, in Paradise, and we saw that only 18% of the homes that didn't meet this new code survived, but well over 50% of those who did meet the new code survived.
COATES: Hmm.
SHERMAN: So, we're going to build back better. It's reasonable for people and the rest of the country to want to see us do that. We're committed to it.
But we've got to learn some other things from this, especially compulsory home maintenance, making sure that you don't have anything flammable within 5 to 10 feet of the home. It is just -- it is just critical. And, you know, now, everybody is thinking about it because this is the biggest fire. But how many people are walking around their home every week, making sure that there isn't a fire hazard right next to the home? And the analysis, as I've seen, most home fires are ignited by something within five feet of the home.
COATES: Well, congressman, we'll certainly hope that there will be changes made. But then the obvious response would be vegetation. If wildfire and brush fire also started and you have dry conditions, how do you regulate vegetation around the home that could also have traveled the embers on the wind? Congressman Brad Sherman, a lot of work ahead of you. Thank you for joining us.
SHERMAN: Good to be with you, and thank you for your interest in this.
COATES: Of course.
Up next, Pete Hegseth's chances of becoming secretary of defense looking way up, and I mean way up, even if Democrats tried to sink him today with the barrage of criticism. Did they blow it or get it right? My next guest, veteran Paul Rieckhoff, has a lot to say about that.
And later, Pam Bondi's turn in the confirmation hot seat. The big questions tonight for Donald Trump's pick to be attorney general.
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[23:20:00]
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COATES: Well, Pete Hegseth appears to be well on his way to being the next secretary of defense. He just got the backing of Republican Senator Joni Ernst. It's a big boost to his chances, of course, and it came after Democrats spent hours grilling him today at his confirmation hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AR): December of 2014 at the CBA Christmas party at the Grand Hyatt at Washington, D.C., you were noticeably intoxicated and had to be carried up to your room. Is that true or false?
PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE, FORMER FOX AND FRIENDS WEEKEND HOST: Anonymous smears.
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): If it had been a sexual assault, that would be disqualifying to be a secretary of defense, wouldn't it?
HEGSETH: That was a false claim.
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): Generalized statements --
HEGSETH: Commanders meet quotas to have a certain number of female infantry officers or infantry enlisted. And that disparages those women --
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): Commanders do not have to --
HEGSETH: -- who are incredibly capable of meeting that standard.
GILLIBRAND: Commanders do not have to have a quota for women in the infantry. That does not exist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I want to bring in founder of Independent Veterans of America, Paul Rieckhoff. He served as first lieutenant and infantry rifle platoon leader in the Iraq War. Lieutenant, thank you for being here.
I'm curious about how you think all of this went down today. Hegseth was questioned over his drinking habits, the 2017 sexual assault allegation, his stance on women in combat, and his qualifications to run a department with three million employees. Yet he picked up Senator Ernst's support today. Does that surprise you at all?
PAUL RIECKHOFF, FOUNDER AND CEO OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS OF AMERICA, NATIONAL SECURITY, VETERANS AFFAIRS AND POLITICAL ANALYST, PRESIDENT OF RIGHTEOUS MEDIA, PODCAST HOST: No, it doesn't, Laura, but I think it does disappoint me and most objective and independent folks who care deeply about our national security and our troops and our national defense.
Nothing about today was normal. The whole thing was unprecedented on a level we've never seen. I think, most of all, because so much of it was focused on his character and whether he's fit for this job, which is not something we normally have to take in to account when we're vetting a secretary of defense. I mean, we're curious about whether or not he might pass an FBI check. This is, you know, the same job that was filled in the past by people who had been the director of the CIA, people who had been U.S. senators.
So, the fact that such a focus was on his character and his integrity and things like whether or not he would get drunk on the job and his adultery and his honesty, I think, is really a dark point for our national security and for our troops and the most hyper-partisan and really extremely political hearing for a secretary of defense we've ever seen. Now, Hegseth is a very political, I would argue, extreme political nominee. But that's usually not the case for a secretary of defense. This is usually the bipartisan job, the place that's supposed to be immune from all our politics. But we saw the worst of our division and our partisanship on full display here and, unfortunately, ultimately, our troops and our national security are at the center of all of it.
But Joni Ernst's move was expected because there has been so much tremendous pressure from Trump, from the MAGA base, and from the right to move her because she's a sexual assault survivor herself, she's a combat veteran herself, and her influence is tremendous. So, it looks like now, with her caving, that his nomination will go through. There's still a week to go and anything --
COATES: Yes.
RIECKHOFF: -- could come out, but it does look like he's on a path to confirmation.
COATES: Well, lieutenant, just so I'm clear, is the focus on his character and his integrity, is that problematic to you because those are ought to be the bare minimum or the kind of the floor, not the ceiling, in the consideration of somebody? Is that the novelty of it or is the fact that they focused on the wrong things and should have talked about something else?
RIECKHOFF: No, I think they had to focus on this. I mean, because of all the reporting and the allegations and his inexperience. But I think -- you know, what I look at, Laura, is if we think about a cabinet secretary, you should give it kind of, maybe at a minimum, the principal school test.
Would you be okay with someone who has this kind of allegations and this kind of a track record, a sloppiness at best, in their personal history if they were the principal of your kid's school?
[23:25:04]
And if not, then why are we okay with that person heading our Department of Defense with two million employees and $700-billion budget in our nukes? This is a sacred obligation, and this is a critically important place to have a person with honor, integrity and courage, and a degree of nonpartisanship where they can rise above the politics and put our national security and our troops first.
What you really saw is a culture war, and you saw a culture warrior in Pete Hegseth bringing that culture war to the Department of Defense, to the Pentagon, and to this nomination.
And the Democrats are fighting back, and I would argue, pretty fecklessly. I mean, the other thing you saw here is the Democrats look shattered, they look leaderless, they look ineffective, and it feels like the Trump steamroller ran them over today and is picking up steam.
COATES: So, how should the Democrats, in your opinion, have conducted themselves? We did see, of course, some pretty fire exchanges and the insistence on the answering of questions, but how do you think the Democrats should have handled it? What were the questions they ought to have honed in on?
RIECKHOFF: You know, I think it starts with who's on the committee. I mean, the Democrats here only had, I think, two combat veterans that sat on that committee. So, you don't have a lot of depth of experience in the military, personal experience where they can actually confront someone like Pete Hegseth, who served in the military honorably, and who has been in combat. So, I think it starts with that.
But it wasn't really a united message. It didn't feel like anybody could get Hegseth on the ropes with the exception of maybe Tim Kaine and Kirsten Gillibrand. But many of them felt like they weren't prepared, they weren't really aggressive, and they didn't ask critical questions like, are you going to put the Constitution first or are you going to put Donald Trump first? I think that's the real core question here, especially if we talk about potential deployment of U.S. troops on U.S. soil, whether or not Trump will use them to tackle the migrant crisis. We're going to face some serious --
COATES: Well, lieutenant, there was a point -- I don't want to cut you off, lieutenant, but there was a point, I got to get to this, there was -- well, he was asked whether he would follow a certain controversial -- I know our time is limited, but I want to play for you --
RIECKHOFF: Yeah.
COATES: -- and the audience what he had to say about this exchange. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D-HI): Would you carry out an order from President Trump to seize Greenland, a territory of our NATO ally, Denmark, by force? Or would you comply with an order to take over the Panama Canal?
PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE, FORMER FOX AND FRIENDS WEEKEND HOST: Senator, I will emphasize that President Trump received 77 million votes to be the lawful commander-in-chief of this country --
HIRONO: We're not talking about the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: There was another instance when he was asked about whether he would follow an unconstitutional order as well, and he skirted the issue, many believed. Do you think that that was indicative of his inclination to follow an order like that?
RIECKHOFF: I think what it revealed is that Pete Hegseth is not going to answer the question. He was very slippery and dicey throughout it. But it's clear that he's going to follow what Donald Trump wants him to do. I think he made it clear to any objective watcher that his loyalty is to Donald Trump in executing his agenda. When you try to drill down on specifics, he often dodged it, he deferred. This is a person who is built for television, who's an excellent communicator, and we saw that today. The Democrats didn't really have an answer for him.
So, I think at the core of this, his qualifications, his ideas on Iran, what he wants to do about the Arctic, his position on nukes or how he feels about our naval positioning, none of that even came up because they were so mired in the personal issues, which they had to be, but there also wasn't even a pivot into the larger macro global policy issues that our military is facing every day from, you know, the migrant crisis to wildfires here at home. The Department of Defense touches all those things, and they didn't really get into any of it.
COATES: In the time they took, they certainly focused on the character issues. We'll see how it all unfolds in the final vote, whether we'll call him secretary or not. Paul Rieckhoff, thank you so much, lieutenant.
RIECKHOFF: Thank you, Laura.
COATES: Still ahead, it's the cabinet position that arguably Donald Trump cares most about. We're talking about the attorney general. So, what kind of questions should Pam Bondi be facing tomorrow? Well, Congressman Dan Goldman has some ideas. He is here with me next.
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[23:30:00]
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE, FORMER FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Department of Justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted, the bad ones. The investigators will be investigated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, that was August of 2023. The former Florida attorney general, Pam Bondi, complaining that the DOJ has been unfair to Donald Trump and suggesting the very consequences you just heard.
Well, tomorrow, she'll have a chance to explain just how far she will go. Bondi set, for her day one of her confirmation hearing, to lead the DOJ as the attorney general, one that is of utmost importance in a position to Donald Trump.
Joining me now, a Democratic congressman from New York and member of the House Judiciary Committee, Dan Goldman. Welcome, congressman. This is a moment many have been waiting for. Arguably, the DOJ head, the A.G., the most consequential member of the cabinet by some estimations, she'll be two days under the microscope for her endeavor to be that person. What question must they ask her?
REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D-NY): Well, the thing that always sticks out to me about Pam Bondi is that when she was Florida attorney general, she had an investigation into Trump University. Then, Donald Trump threw his charity, I believe, which was illegal, I could be wrong about that, but gave her campaign $25,000, and then her investigation went away.
And that's the kind of corruption that is disqualifying for an attorney general, especially when you now have Donald Trump, who has threatened repeatedly to weaponize the Department of Justice, and her biggest qualification seems to be that quote you just played, which is that she will prosecute the prosecutors and investigate the investigators.
[23:35:00]
That's all Donald Trump wants out of his attorney general, and she has made that clear. So, he doesn't have to ask her to do anything anymore because her audition was to say that. And when we've seen that she is sufficiently corrupt when she was Florida attorney general, then you assume, you automatically presume, that she will do whatever is necessary to favor Donald Trump and herself. And this is such an important position for the reasons you said, Laura, that you cannot have someone who lacks any credibility.
COATES: Certainly, she has denied that she has had either corrupt purposes or that she has been biased in her application of the law. But those questions will persist because they have been in the universe surrounding the motivation for having her be named as a potential pick, number one. Number two, what about the fact that she, as of last August, talked about prosecuting the prosecutors?
I mean, you and I both know that the long line of priorities for a prosecuting body for the Department of Justice is not necessarily to try to find out invisible corruption if there is any within. Does that strike you as odd? That's a priority for her?
GOLDMAN: It's absurd. It's purely political. There is absolutely no evidence, zero evidence, to indicate that Jack Smith or any of the other prosecutors involved in any of these cases did anything wrong. We're not talking about a crime. Just did anything wrong.
And it is -- it undermines the entire system when you have the top law enforcement official, the number one person in the attorney general's office, accusing other line prosecutors, other career prosecutors, of misconduct, much less criminal conduct. And that is the way that the department loses all of its credibility, and that's the way that, when we talk about the rule of law, that's how it starts to crumble.
COATES: Now, many might argue, is it bluster or question? Is it bluster in the performance as a pundit on television or is it what she actually intends to do? Do you think, if she is confirmed, she will indeed follow through with her statements about prosecuting or investigating people like Jack Smith, members of the judiciary committee, members of the investigative bodies that she felt were unfairly targeting Trump?
GOLDMAN: We don't know. I mean, it's hard to predict it.
COATES: What if she does?
GOLDMAN: Well, the point is that there's enough indication that she will, that she should simply not be put in a position where she could. And that's why you have a confirmation process.
And just think about what is coming forward right now, what we're dealing with. Donald Trump is doing everything possible to prevent the release of volume two of the Jack Smith's report on the classified documents, which purportedly says why he kept those documents and what he was going to do with them.
He is going to the ends of the earth to try to prevent that. And Republicans are right along with him, even though they held Merrick Garland in contempt because he wouldn't turn over a recording of the Biden investigation.
So, let's say it goes six days from now and that's not released. Well, every other special counsel report has been released. What's Pam Bondi going to do? Donald Trump is going to tell her, get rid of that case, get rid of that report. And she has already demonstrated that she effectively is his vessel in the Department of Justice.
And so, she's not going to do what's right. She's not going to do what department precedent is. She's not going to do what department policy is. She's just going to do whatever Donald Trump wants, and that's why it's dangerous.
COATES: We'll see how it all unfolds. We're just days away from a new administration. Thank you for joining.
GOLDMAN: Thank you.
COATES: Still ahead tonight, is it a statement or something else? Michelle Obama, the former first lady of the United States, deciding to skip Donald Trump's inauguration. All the backlash and all the praise, next.
And later, we'll take you back out to Los Angeles County for the incredible discovery made in the ash of this burned down home. You won't want to miss it.
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[23:40:00]
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COATES: President Obama will meet another plus one (ph) at the inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump. Former first lady Michelle Obama says she's not going. You know, she didn't actually explain why she's not going. But when you go back and listen to what Trump has said about her, you can probably understand why she may want to stay home.
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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: You know who's nasty to me? Michelle Obama. Yeah, she was nasty. Ooh. Shouldn't be that way. That was a big mistake that she made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: How so? Well, there's no love lost between the two. And when it comes to Trump, the former first lady did her mantra of when they go low, we go high a long time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I hope that you will forgive me if I'm a little angry that we are indifferent to his erratic behavior, his obvious mental decline, his history as a convicted felon, a known slum lord, a predator found liable for sexual abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: With me now, Alencia Johnson, former senior advisor for President Biden's 2020 campaign and author of the upcoming book, "Flip the Tables: The Everyday Disruptor's Guide to Finding Courage and Making Change." I love that title, love her and the book. And Lance Trover, Republican strategist and former spokesperson for North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum's presidential campaign, is here as well. Good to have both of you. Thank you. Alencia, looking forward to that book, as you know.
[23:44:58]
There's no reason that was given by the Obamas for the former first lady's planned absence. Why do you think she's not going to be there?
ALENCIA JOHNSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR THE BIDEN 2020 CAMPAIGN: Listen, that silence speaks extremely loud. It is disruptive, right? She's not there because she laid it out this summer as she was campaigning for Vice President Harris the egregious things that Donald Trump has not only done to this country and infected into our culture, but the things that he has said about her family and putting them in harm's way.
So, I think Michelle Obama is, as the kids say, is standing on business and not making sure -- not putting us in a position to believe that this is normal, right? To believe that the way that President Donald Trump acts and operates is normal.
When people talk about this is breaking tradition, well, Donald Trump broke tradition many moons ago, his first administration. And also, he's a convicted felon. We should not normalize this behavior. And so, her silence, I think, speaks loud and clear.
COATES: How do you see it? Should she attend? LANCE TROVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR DOUG BURGUM'S 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I don't care whether she attends or not. I mean, look --
COATES: Is that for all first ladies before her or just her?
TROVER: No, I'm just saying that I don't -- if she wants to -- look, I'm sure it's a lot warmer in Hawaii, anyway, right now. But look, here's the deal. If -- you know, if she wants to attend, that's great. If she doesn't -- you talk about what Donald Trump has said about her. What are the things that she has said about Donald Trump? I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I'm not sure it really matters either way whether she comes or not. I mean, if she wants to come, great. If not, stay in Hawaii.
COATES: You know, there's an interesting change and shift about the role of the first lady. I mean, we know there's questions whether the former first lady, who's known as Melania Trump, will be in the traditional sort of space and time as the first lady in Washington, D.C. and beyond. Are we seeing a change in the way that we view the first lady's presence for our living presidents to be there?
JOHNSON: Look, I think that we are, right? There are some first ladies who come into the White House, they have these initiatives, they are very outspoken about certain issues, and then some people say, that's entirely too much. And then you have first ladies who kind of, quite frankly, go missing in action and folks say, well, where is she?
And so, as the country is grappling with the actual role of the first lady, there is, I would say, as we're talking about tradition, tradition for them to actually be there and pushing forward certain initiatives around the president and making sure that we're breathing this culture where people are welcome into the White House, where it's less political and it's about the American people.
But I think ever since Melania Trump has not been in the public eye in some spaces, the role of the first lady is being questioned of what it will be in the future.
TROVER: It does send a message, I feel like. I mean, the Democrats for a year have lectured everybody on decorum and how Donald Trump breaks decorum and all of these types of things. And I think for her to not --
JOHNSON: Some Democrats.
TROVER: No, that was the crux of the campaign.
JOHNSON: Not all of us.
TROVER: Donald Trump with democracy and the republic would end as we know it because he breaks decorum if he gets re-elected again. That's what Michelle Obama and everybody else told us over the course of the last year. So, I do think her not showing up says -- I mean, talk is cheap, right? I mean, why --
COATES: Let me ask you, though --
(CROSSTALK)
Sorry, I don't want to cut you off, but there's also this notion he is -- will be the president of the United States again, right? He could, as easily, extend an olive branch to a former first lady. And we saw it just last week's Carter funeral. We saw the conversation happening, whatever it was, between President Obama and President-elect Donald Trump as well. And frankly, she has a higher favorability rating than even Donald Trump does.
Now, polls aren't everything, but it could actually benefit him to be in at least (INAUDIBLE), wouldn't it?
TROVER: She has a standing invitation. She's a former first lady. I mean, the decision is up to her. That's what I was going back to at the very beginning. If she wants to come, she can come. If she doesn't want to, that's fine.
But I think it goes back to, you know, Democrats spent a year lecturing Republicans on decorum and how Donald Trump breaks China and comes to this town and messes up the way of the world here in Washington, DC. And so, I mean, I think it's like, okay. Look, I get it. They went all in on the election. They lost. I get it. So --
JOHNSON: But I think if you are going to talk about how much of the existential crisis that Donald Trump is, right, the threat that he is to democracy, you actually can't throw that out the window and then say, I'm going to cozy up next to him. I think she's actually being very consistent with that message.
COATES: Well, here's who will be there. Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, just to name a few. What message does that send?
TROVER: I think, to me, this is a larger story of how quickly Corporate America and Silicon Valley has changed since November 5th. I mean, we have seen a sea change from both sides.
I think it's a reflection of they are waking up and realizing that the world doesn't revolve around Silicon Valley and New York City and Washington D.C., that there's a whole country in between that hasn't been loving what has been going on in Corporate America with the woke policies and the censorship coming out of some of these tech companies. And I think these guys are finally waking up to it. But many of the voters in this country are looking for something different out of Corporate America.
COATES: Or they know which side of their bread is buttered.
JOHNSON: It's about their money for them and lining their pockets. So --
COATES: I like my analogy better, bread and butter. Alencia Johnson and Lance Trover, thank you both so much.
[23:50:01]
Well, you know the saying that a picture is worth a thousand words? Well, our next image and our next story certainly fits that to a tee. A needle in a haystack discovery and the incredibly moving story behind it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: We have seen horrific stories of loss, loved ones, homes, prized possessions. But what if I told you we had a story of something found? Well, Victoria DeSantis had taken off her wedding rings as warnings were going off around L.A. and setting them by the front door just in case she had to evacuate.
[23:55:03]
But when the Eaton Fire reached her Altadena home in the middle of the night, Victoria looked outside and saw embers flying through the air. Patches of grass in front of her own home were on fire and she had no time to gather her things. Victoria's rings were left behind. Her neighborhood, decimated. Her family home of 20 years, totally and completely destroyed. And it seemed like all was gone.
But Victoria asked for help. Firefighters dug on their hands and knees through ash, through rubble. And there was just a glint of light in all that dirt. And Victoria's ring had been found. For her, a symbol of her family, a symbol of their love in all the darkness.
And Victoria and Marko DeSantis join me now. Oh, I'm so happy to meet you all and to see you in this way. I'm so glad that you were able to find that ring. I know it would have meant so much to me as someone very sentimental. Tell me about the moment you found it. What was your immediate emotion?
VICTORIA DESANTIS, FOUND WEDDING BAND IN RUBBLE OF DESTROYED HOME: I mean, I absolutely could not believe it because I just pictured my roof, my ceiling, my couch. Everything is on top of it. So, how would you be able to find it?
And this firefighter used a, um, a vent to sift through everything. He pulled it off the house and was using it. And then he said, I found something. And I just -- I mean, I think my picture kind of speaks. Like I just burst into tears. I couldn't believe it.
COATES: I mean, when you ask them --
MARKO DESANTIS, FOUND WEDDING BAND IN RUBBLE OF DESTROYED HOME: It's hard enough to find something in --
COATES: Go ahead, Marko.
M. DESANTIS: Yeah, it is hard enough to find something in your house when you --
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
COATES: I think we might be kindred spirits for some reason in that moment in time trying to find that needle in the haystack. But imagine that and what that meant to her to find that, Marko. For her to look for it, to ask the firefighters. Obviously, it tells you a lot about what that symbolized for your marriage and love.
M. DESANTIS: It's incredible. It's -- it's -- it's definitely a little like ray of light in an otherwise kind of dark time right now, you know, that we really needed. It lifted us up and everybody out there who's just showing their support not just for us but for our whole community that was devastated and, you know, neighboring communities like the Palisades. It just -- it just restores your faith in humanity, honestly.
COATES: Hmm.
M. DESANTIS: And love. Amazing.
COATES: That's so powerful to think about. And for so many people seeing that, just that symbol there, Victoria, I mean, what would you like -- the firefighters you asked for the help, anything you want to say to them, who were able to sift through and, number one, also take you seriously and say that they would help, and they did help on their hands and knees?
V. DESANTIS: Absolutely. I mean, they came up to us and said, do you have questions? Do you need anything? I said, yeah, can you help me find my ring? And he said, we accept hugs as payment. So, I think I probably squeezed them so tight their heads popped off.
(LAUGHTER)
But I definitely gave them a lot of hugs. They were so lovely. I was like, you probably have other things to do, it's okay. And he's like, no, no, now, we're good. I found an 1800 pocket watch the other day. So, I got you. And I was like, oh my God, okay. I mean, they're so kind. I know all of these guys work so hard. So, we're very grateful.
COATES: I bet, for them, it meant a lot too to be able to do something, and they are just up against the most extreme conditions as are the communities that you come from as well. Let me ask you, Marco. You were actually away for work when your family had to evacuate. First of all, what was it like to have to even see what was going from a distance?
M. DESANTIS: Well, yeah, as I was flying out of LAX, I looked and saw the smoke over Pacific Palisades and some of our dear friends lived there. So, I texted them. I was like, hey, are you guys okay? And that's when I kind of got the indication. The night before, we had been up all night with this crazy like 100 mile-an-hour winds.
V. DESANTIS: A hundred mile-an-hour winds. Nothing we've ever experienced.
M. DESANTIS: Those are like hurricane force winds. And so, it's just one of those things where, yeah, it was just like you thought it was going be a wind problem, and then it turned out to be a fire thing, and that's just, you know, wind. The worst thing that is going to happen is you're going to have trees fall on your car. But fire, you know, it's just -- we've had fire before. And usually, they can put it out. This time --
V. DESANTIS: Our house is 100 years old.
M. DESANTIS: Yeah, our house is 100 years old.
V. DESANTIS: It was about to celebrate its 100th birthday. You didn't think this was going to happen.
M. DESANTIS: But it was just a perfect -- an imperfect storm of the, you know, really dry year we had without any rain and the crazy winds and the -- you know, it's just -- it was just a tinderbox.
V. DESANTIS: It's a perfect storm.
M. DESANTIS: Our entire neighborhood is gone. Next door neighbors on either side, Rose and Tilly, Grosse Street, Kenny --
V. DESANTIS: Everybody.
M. DESANTIS: -- everybody who has lived there for generations, and then families like us that have only lived there in the last 20 years. But we have a really tight knit -- Altadena is a really tight knit, amazing community. And yeah, we have a lot of hope that there'll be, you know --
[00:00:01]
V. DESANTIS: It will be restored.
M. DESANTIS: -- that best days are not behind it.
V. DESANTIS: Yeah, it's the next chapter.
M. DESANTIS: Yeah.
COATES: I love the way you think about that. And, of course, it's the kind of area, as you say, where you know your neighbors by first name and you're caring about how they're doing as well. I'm so glad I got to meet you, guys. And there is some symbol of hope coming from that. Victoria, Marko, time to renew those vows.
(LAUGHTER)
I don't know. I see a vow renewal in our future. Just saying, do it here on air. Nice to meet you all. It's good to smile, thinking about all that has happened out there. Thanks.
M. DESANTIS: Thank you so much.
V. DESANTIS: Thank you so much. Thank you.
M. DESANTIS: Thank you so much.
V. DESANTIS: Thank you for highlighting our city.
COATES: Thank you. I'm glad to highlight your communities. It means so much to everyone. Thank you for watching, everyone. "Anderson Cooper 360" starts right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
