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One World with Zain Asher

U.S. Army Private Travis King Back In U.S. Custody; Fire Rips Through A Packed Wedding Hall Killing More Than 100 People Injuring Dozens Of Others; Ukraine Reporting Progress In Its Counteroffensive Against Russia's Invasion; Judge Rules Donald Trump And Sons Liable For Fraud; U.S. Senator Bob Menendez And Wife Plead Not Guilty To Bribery Charges; Former U.S Representative Adam Kinzinger Weighs In On Politics; A.I. Makes a Paralyzed Swiss Man Walk Again. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired September 27, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:18]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: When, where and how. Details on what's next for the U.S. soldier just released by North Korea.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: "One World" starts right now. Another twist in an already bizarre story. Army Private Travis King back in U.S.

custody after a summer inside the hermit kingdom.

GOLODRYGA: Also ahead, back-alley deals, cold, hard cash and $100,000 in gold bars. Embattled U.S. Senator Bob Menendez pleads not guilty in his

first court appearance after shocking charges fit more for a blockbuster thriller than the halls of Congress.

ASHER: And later, the upside of A.I. Certainly something you don't hear every day. How artificial intelligence is bringing hope to paralysis

patients.

GOLODRYGA: Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. A warm welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being with us. We want to begin with a stunning development involving a

U.S. soldier and the world's most reclusive country. Army Private -- take a look here at his photograph. Army Private Travis King now in American

custody after being released from North Korea. Two U.S. officials confirming the news just hours after North Korean state media said that

King was being expelled.

GOLODRYGA: And we're just now learning that the transfer took place in China. Now, you may recall, King entered North Korea in July after running

across the heavily fortified demilitarized zone from South Korea.

ASHER: All right, CNN's Oren Liebermann joins us live now from the Pentagon. You know, Oren,

when you hear this news, when you heard this news just a few hours ago, it sort of seemed to have come out of the blue. What more do we know about

whether there was or wasn't behind the scenes negotiations in terms of the U.S. being able to negotiate with North Korea? Walk us through it.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: We've just gotten quite a few new details about how this all played out but you're exactly right. Up

until this point, the only details we really knew about attempted conversations between the U.S. and North Korea which generally happened

through the U.N. was that there were very short, very non-substantive conversations that didn't really lead anywhere.

So, suddenly, to go from that to Private Travis King has been released or expelled in North Korea's words from Pyongyang and from North Korea was

quite a surprise. But in terms of the new details we're learning, senior administration officials including for example, National Security Adviser

Jake Sullivan and the Pentagon Press Secretary have thanked two countries. And this tells you a lot about how this played out.

First, China. China played a role, according to officials, in helping get King out of North Korea. And the actual transit and transportation of

Travis King from North Korea through China, it seems, and back into U.S. custody. But they didn't deal with any of the diplomatic conversations that

happened to make this possible.

That, according to officials was all Sweden and that is where Sullivan and others have thanked Sweden for their effort here. Sweden has a presence

there and is able to communicate with North Korea.

And according to officials, North Korea reached out to the Swedes and was looking essentially to remove Travis King or send him out of the country.

And that happened through Sweden over what the U.S. is calling the intense diplomatic efforts to make this happen. And you get a sense there of all

the countries that went into this.

In terms of what has happened since his release, officials say he has spoken with his family. His mother, in fact, released a short statement.

I'll read this to you. This is from Ms. Claudine Gates, through a spokesman for the family.

"Ms. Gates will forever be grateful to the United States Army and all its inter-agency partners for a job well done. For the foreseeable future, the

family asks for privacy, and Ms. Gates does not intend to give any interviews." So, a private time for the family there with the release of

Travis King.

One of the key questions was, what would it take to get King out of there? Would the U.S. have to give anything up to North Korea? Because there were

concerns that Pyongyang would use Travis King essentially as propaganda by showing him off and claiming that he wanted to be there. But at least, as

of right now, U.S. officials say -- are insisting, they gave up nothing to secure Travis King's release from North Korea.

In terms of how these next steps will play out, Zain, two U.S. officials tell us that when Travis King is brought back to the U.S., he will be taken

to Brooke Army Medical Center. That's one of the places that people from overseas are taken for medical reviews such as Brittney Griner and Trevor

Reed when they were released from Russia.

So, King will head there, as well, relatively sooner. There isn't a specific date for his flight yet there. And from there are even more

questions because he was AWOL, Absent Without Leave from the military.

[12:05:00]

Will the military consider UCMG charges against Travis King? That has to be figured out. But right now, the important part is that his release has been

secured and he will soon be on his way back to the United States.

ASHER: So many questions in terms of what is going to happen to King when he arrives back in the U.S. And just in terms of, you know, a lot of people

really did believe that he was actually going to spend a lot longer in North Korea than just under two months. All right. Oren Liebermann, live

for us there. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: Well, North Korea claims that an investigation into King is now over but some key questions remain unanswered. CNN's Paula Hancocks joins

us live in Seoul, South Korea. So, Paula, as we heard from Oren's reporting, it appears striking that he was released without any

preconditions. At least that's what the U.S. is reporting in terms of demands from North Korea. How is this being received and interpreted in

South Korea?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's true in the past we have seen Pyongyang try and make something out of these kinds of situations whether

they use a detainee for propaganda purposes or whether they try and extract some kind of concessions.

For example, in the past they have had high profile Americans including former U.S. presidents traveling to Pyongyang to secure the release of

detainees. And certainly, this is a very different situation.

But we assumed it would be when we saw that very short statement from state-run media in North Korea a little earlier today where it said that he

would be expelled, suggesting they weren't looking for anything more from this situation.

Really, experts we've spoken to say that they probably debriefed him or I should say questioned him extensively to find out what he knew, maybe

realized that he was a fairly low-lying soldier, didn't know any state secrets, for example, and decided there was nothing they more they needed

from him. So, they decided that they should expel him.

Now, the actual statement itself went on to give reasons they said according to North Korea as to where Travis King decided to do this thing.

And he was talking about racial discrimination in the U.S. Army and also an unequal U.S. society. It's what they said last month, as well, when they

finally acknowledged they even had Travis King. But of course, these are Pyongyang's words.

We haven't seen or heard from Travis King since mid-July. In fact, we still haven't. So, clearly, he can speak for himself once he is back in the

United States. But from Pyongyang's point of view, they've been very clear about where their diplomatic priorities lie at the moment and it's not with

having discussions with the United States.

We have just seen Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader come back from meeting Vladimir Putin, the Russian president in Vladivostok. So, that is

clearly where his priorities lie at this point when it comes to diplomacy. So, the overarching belief from many experts is that the use of Travis King

in North Korea had ended.

They had questioned him extensively. They believed they had what they needed from him and then they decided they wanted him to leave the country.

Of course, this is speculation. We only know for sure when North Korea decides to tell us if they do. But that appears to be the situation at this

point. Pyongyang is not looking to speak to Washington. They already have a new ally in Moscow.

GOLODRYGA: Well, look, things could have ended much worse this this situation. So, it is a relief that he is coming home and as you know that

we will continue to follow this story. Still a lot of unanswered questions. Paula Hancocks, thank you.

ASHER: All right, I want to turn now to a tragic story out of Northern Iraq where a fire ripped through a packed wedding hall killing more than 100

people and injuring dozens of others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: There, you can hear people crying out in the social media video as flames and smoke just choked the air.ne guest says that the bride and

groom were slow dancing when fireworks went off and the ceiling caught fire. Soon after, the whole hall went up into flames. The father of the

groom says his son and the bride are now both now in hospital receiving treatment.

Early Wednesday, firefighters were sifting through the charred remains of that hall. Authorities say the wedding hall did not meet safety standards.

ASHER: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is tracking this story from London, joins us live now. Selma, I cannot imagine anything more tragic, especially on a

wedding day. Just walk us through what more we know at this point, Salma.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's absolutely horrifying. Just moments ago, we were watching these mass funerals, this mass mourning for

this Christian community where dozens of people were being buried.

[12:10:00]

Three days of national mourning have been declared in Iraq and an investigation has been launched because critically the issue is, is that

this could have been avoided. The building's material was made of this highly flammable, very cheap, illegal substance. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): A celebration turned nightmare at an event hall in northern Iraq. More than a thousand people were gathered here to attend the

wedding of a young couple. Social media video shows the moment the ceiling apparently caught fire, the sparklers setting the decor ablaze.

This eyewitness described how the horror unfolded. During the slow dance, one of the fireworks hit the roof, and it caught fire all at once, he says.

It spread everywhere, because it was made of panels, vinyl, fabric. Everything was burning, and it started falling on people's heads. No one

could get out.

Highly flammable and illegal building materials made the venue a tinderbox, according to Iraq's civil defense. Echo bond panels, which violate the

country's civil code, fed the flames. And within minutes, portions of the building collapsed, leaving families trapped in the inferno, officials

said. Burns and asphyxiation led to the deaths and injuries of dozens, according to Iraq's health ministry.

The full extent of the tragedy made clear as daylight broke while rescue workers sifted through charred concrete and twisted rebar. And loved ones

discovered the fate of their relatives. These are my moms, my moms, this man screams, my mom's clothes, as he holds up all that remains of his

mother, her dress.

This is already one of the most devastated areas in hard-hit Iraq. Qaraqosh, a predominantly Christian town, was captured by ISIS in 2014, and

nearly all of its 60,000 residents forced to flee the terror group's wrath. Liberated more than two years later by U.S.-backed forces, life was slowly

coming back.

A visit from Pope Francis in 2021 marked the persecuted community's brave return. The day after, what should have been a celebration of joy, mass

funerals and mass mourning at this Christian cemetery, with survivors left asking how so much avoidable death was allowed to happen and if corruption

may be to blame.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ABDELAZIZ (on-camera): As you can imagine, survivors are asking questions. They are demanding answers from officials. And what is most worrying is, as

you heard there in this piece, this is a community that was rebuilt very recently, post 2016, after ISIS was expelled.

Many of the new buildings in Qaraqosh now are being looked at with questions, with suspicion. Did corruption lead other buildings to be built

with illegal materials? How much of Qaraqosh is safe to live in now?

ASHER: You raised some very important points. Salma Abdelaziz, live for us there. Obviously, this could have been avoided as you point out.

GOLODRYGA: We turn now to a CNN exclusive. Ukraine is reporting some progress in its counteroffensive against Russia's invasion. It's using

Ukrainian-made vampire drones to target the enemy. In the words of one Ukrainian, the drones see in the night like daylight. CNN's Fred Pleitgen

spent some time along the front lines and has this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Rolling into battle as night falls, Ukraine's army attacking in the east around Bakhmut.

For the Ukrainians, this is an extremely important but also very complicated and potentially very dangerous mission, and we're going to be

located very close to where the Russians are.

We're with a frontline drone unit called Code 9.2. Their drone, the Ukrainian-made Vampire, the crew attaching the bombs as artillery whistles

over our heads. The Vampire is fully night vision capable and plays a soundtrack showing it means business.

The team leader's call sign is Groove. And he confirms, because Ukraine doesn't have a modern air force tonight, they are the air force. The drones

see in the night like in daylight, he says. We see the infantry. We hit the vehicles. Cannons, everything we need to destroy.

Groove also says Russians from the Wagner private military company have returned to the battlefield around Bakhmut.

[12:15:00]

Yes, there is Wagner here, too. They swiftly changed their commanders and have returned here, he says. We're breaking through their line of defense

and hitting them well. As the drone takes off, the battle is already well underway. The Ukrainians using Western extended-range artillery shells and

cluster munitions to attack Russian ground forces.

Groove is already busy targeting the Russians. Oh, something's burning, he says. His unit also managing to take out a Russian main battle tank by

dropping several bombs on it. The Ukrainian army now starting to push forward. Our photojournalist Dan Hodge films powerful explosions as armored

vehicles advance in the moonlit night.

We're now hearing a lot of fire, a lot of outgoing fire, a lot of incoming fire actually also, as well, as the Ukrainians are trying to move forward

and they say they want to take a key road away from the Russians. But the Russians are fighting back, firing flares to unmask the Ukrainians advance

and hit Kyiv's forces.

Groove remains unfazed, hunting a Russian tactical vehicle before destroying it. The Code 9.2 drone team often hunts Russian armor here,

recently even destroying a modern T-90 tank in a highly complex operation.

After more than a half dozen missions, the drone returns a final time. But as we try to get away from the battlefield, a tire bursts on our Humvee. No

time for a spare, we push on.

We just witnessed an extremely tough battle between the Russians and the Ukrainians, both sides going at it for hours with very heavy weapons. And

the area where we were, shells landed close to there on various occasions. Now, we're heading back to base. Hobbled butt-rolling after a long night on

one of Ukraine's most dangerous front lines. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Bakhmut, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Fascinating piece from Fred on the front lines there in Ukraine. Well, coming up for us -- who was in control of Donald Trump's business

after a judge stripped the former president of control of some of his empire?

ASHER: And he has been in trouble before. New Jersey's senior senator is back in court on corruption charges. That's next.

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[12:20:23]

GOLODRYGA: Donald Trump and his adult sons could have a hard time doing business in New York. That's because a judge there has ruled that they are

liable for fraud.

ASHER: Right, this is major. The judge ruled that Trump's vastly overstated their assets in order to gain better terms on loans and benefits and that

they provided false financial statements for roughly a decade. The judge has now canceled the Trump Organization's business certificate, as well.

GOLODRYGA: So, what's next? Well, a trial to determine penalties. And here's what's at stake. New York's attorney general wants to ban the Trumps

from serving as officers of a New York business. She is also seeking $250 million in damages.

The judge wrote in his ruling that in Trump's world, quote, "rent-regulated apartments are worth the same as unregulated apartments. Restricted land is

worth the same as unrestricted land. Restrictions can evaporate into thin air. That is a fantasy world, not the real world."

ASHER: Trump is responding, of course. The former president calling the whole situation unfair, adding, and I quote, "This is not American." By the

way, that is not the only high-profile legal case in New York. U.S. Senator Bob Menendez and his wife have just pleaded not guilty to bribery charges.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, prosecutors say they found hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash at their home and claim Menendez accepted gold bars and a

luxury car. He's also accused of giving sensitive information to the Egyptian government.

ASHER: The New Jersey Democrat is facing a lot of calls within his own party. Fellow lawmakers telling him to resign, but he is maintaining his

innocence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Will you run for re-election? Will you run for re-election, Senator? Will you run for re-election, Sir?

BOB MENENDEZ, U.S. SENATE DEMOCRAT: As I said, I'm here to do the work for the people of New Jersey.

REPORTER: Why won't you resign, Sir?

MENENDEZ: Because I'm innocent. What's wrong with you guys?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Right, sticking to his guns there. Our Jason Carroll actually takes a closer look at Senator and Mrs. Menendez and the scheme prosecutors say

that they hatched.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Given the vocals, it might be hard to immediately place the song. It's called "Never Enough"

from the movie musical, "The Greatest Showman". This is how Senator Bob Menendez serenaded his then bride-to-be, Nadine Arslanian, when he proposed

in October 2019.

The Taj Mahal provided a romantic backdrop for the couple who told "The New York Times" they met in December 2018 at an IHOP in Union City, New Jersey,

where Menendez grew up and previously served as mayor. She thought he was, according to the "Times", very intelligent and very, very hot, while

Menendez says she was beautiful and bright and had this aura about her.

Prosecutors allege it was a courtship steeped in corruption that began soon after they met. A 39-page indictment names three men, Wael Hana, Jose

Uribe, and Fred Davies, who prosecutors say paid the couple hundreds of thousands of dollars of bribes in exchange for using Menendez's power and

influence as a senator in ways that benefited the government of Egypt and to enrich themselves. The senior senator from New Jersey denying any

wrongdoing.

MENENDEZ: I firmly believe that when all the facts are presented, not only will I be exonerated, but I still will be the New Jersey's senior senator.

CARROLL (voice-over): Prosecutors say before Aslanian met Menendez, she was friends with Hana, who is originally from Egypt and maintained close

connections with the Egyptian official. He in turn introduced Yuribay, a New Jersey businessman to the couple.

According to the indictment, Davies is a real estate developer and long- time fundraiser for Menendez. Prosecutors say these three men offered huge bribes to the couple including gold, cash and a $60,000 Mercedes-Benz

convertible.

Federal agents searched the couple's home and safety deposit box last year where they found more than a dozen gold bars and more than $500,000 in

cash, much of it stuffed into envelopes and hidden in clothing, closets, and a safe. While the indictment lays out allegations portraying a couple

on the grift, Menendez offered this defense for the cash found stashed at his home.

MENENDEZ: But these were monies drawn from my personal savings account based on the income that I have lawfully derived over those 30 years.

[12:25:00]

CARROLL (voice-over): Menendez remains defiant. And though his wife was not at his side at his press conference Monday, she, too, denies any wrongdoing

and says she will vigorously defend the allegations in court. Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: All right. Let's take a closer look at the legal troubles of both Donald Trump and Bob Menendez. We are joined by CNN Analyst Michael Moore,

who is actually a former U.S. attorney.

Michael, thank you so much for being with us. Here's the thing. For a sitting senator to be arraigned once, that's pretty bad. For a sitting

senator to be arraigned twice -- twice, Michael, in eight years for similar charges by the way is extraordinary. Just walk us through what you make of

these charges.

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, well, I'm glad to be with both of you today. It's unusual to say the least. The problem, of course, is that

we're facing a time when there are no more norms and expectations from our public officials. I mean, we have a former president of the United States

under indictment now in multiple places under 90 somewhat counts or whatever it is.

So, you know, this looks like just a run of the mill type story until you dig into it. The allegations in this indictment against the sitting Senator

Menendez are quite severe. And while we start with the presumption that he is, in fact, innocent. He's presumed innocent. He has a right to a trial.

He has a right to have the government prove the case against him as he goes forward.

But if the allegations are substantiated that the government has laid out in this indictment, he is likely to find himself in custody and in jail. By

all appearances, the allegations involve that he was selling access and essentially doing the bidding of other people other than just his

constituents in New Jersey during the time that he was sitting in the U. S. Senate.

And that deals with votes, that deals with, you know, trying to involve himself into a state criminal investigation against some of his co-

defendants. And so that's -- those will be hard allegations. The government has gone the extra step here. So, let's take it aside just from

allegations.

The government has gone the extra step to actually do DNA analysis of some of the, the monies that were found at his home. So, you know, how would the

DNA of co-defendants be found on monies that were just lawfully withdrawn from a bank account?

And that's going to be a tough argument to answer. And I think the government made a very clever move in sort of facing that head-on and

removing that from the quiver of arrows of defenses that will likely come at them from Senator Menendez and his counsel.

GOLODRYGA: Well, let's talk about that, because you're right, Michael, to point out that he is innocent until proven guilty. That is how this applies

here in the United States. But let's focus on some of the details here in this indictment.

Investigators found $550,000 in cash stuffed into envelopes and closets. Some of the cash was actually stuffed inside of the senator's jacket

pockets, 13 bars of gold bullion and a Mercedes during their search of his home.

And his explanation thus far for this is saying that he's old-fashioned and he saves his money and takes out large amounts of money and attributes it

to his immigrant parents and their background and their insecurity with money. I mean, that just begs credulity, does it not?

MOORE: It does, and it basically I think will fall on deaf ears as he moved forward. So, he's an educated man. Uh, he, he well-knows how to invest his

money. He well-knows that you don't keep gold bars laying around the house, that you don't keep envelopes of cash stuffed into a jacket pocket.

I mean, we're not talking about having a little emergency fund where he may need a thousand dollars, you know, hidden in the family bible so that he

can, you know, buy groceries should the power go out or something like that. We're talking about, you know, a significant amount of money. And

again, the gold bars.

I mean, I don't think he's going to claim that he's preparing for the end times or that he's expected some national -- international calamity at this

point, but he'll have to explain that. And I just think the explanation that he has given thus far is falling on deaf ears, you know.

He's facing two fronts. I mean, not just the legal front, but now the mounting political pressure against him to resign. And so, he's got to

handle that, I think, in a more effective way as he communicates his position.

Again, the government has gone sort of this extra unique mile of having this evidence tested with DNA analysis. And so, you know, the claim that I

hid the money, that I got out of my bank account, you're going to have to explain how other people's DNA who are connected to this case got on that

money unless they're --

ASHER: And as you point out, half a million dollars isn't exactly grocery money.

[12:30:00]

I do want to pivot, obviously we've got some major news in terms of a New York judge ruling that the Trumps, both Trump and his adult sons engaged in

years and years of major financial fraud. Just walk us through -- give us your take. I mean, how significant is this?

MOORE: Well, it's obviously impactful, and it's a significant ruling against the former president. I mean, I think you have to look at this from

the staging or the status of this particular case, and that is that the judge ruled on a summary judgment motion. And for the layman, that simply

means that the judge ruled that there was no disputed facts, no substitutes disputed facts at play here.

I think that's going to give ultimately the states a problem should Trump decide to appeal because issues related to fraud, issues related to

valuation, issues related to credibility, those are typically things that are in the province alone of a jury and not just a judge. And so, I think

the case will likely be appealed.

But what it means in the meantime is that is that a court in the United States has in fact found that the former president and his company,

specifically the company, committed fraud by how they valued the properties to gain an advantage, to gain lower interest rates, those types of things

in an increase in the value of property that the court said was not worth what the Trump Organization said it was.

And so, you know, I do think we'll see this play out in an appeal. I think it's going to change the start date of this trial, and it will likely push

it back. And as you know from the former president's strategy, any delay often endures to his benefit. And he plays that out in a way that's almost

masterful.

So, I think that this delay will hopefully give him a reason to complain to his supporters that in fact, he's once again being victimized by the United

States court system. Whether or not that argument takes hold, it continues to take hold as we've seen it in recent polling, I don't know, but he

certainly is going to have some things that he can appeal.

And certainly, some of the remarks in the judge's order that I thought were a little bit more personal and hyperbolic than in fact. I wouldn't be

surprised to see those issues raised, as well.

ASHER: But as you point out, he is going to appeal. Michael Moore, live for us there. Thank you so much. All right, still to come. A few hours from

now, speaking of Trump, seven Republicans hoping to be the next U.S. president are set to take stage in their second debate. But once again,

attention will of course turn to the one man who is not there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:16]

ASHER: All right, welcome back to One World. I'm Zain Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: All right, earlier this week, Donald Trump described the Republican debates as a job interview. But don't you need to show up for the interview

if you actually want the job? Trump once again skipping tonight's debate at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California.

GOLODRYGA: This as seven other Republicans will take the stage, hoping to take advantage of Trump's absence by presenting voters with an alternative

option for the party and the White House. But with the first primary vote less than four months away, none have proven to be a serious challenge to

the front-runner yet.

In fact, the candidate who gained the most from the last debate was the man who wasn't there. That's Donald Trump himself. Polls showed Trump gaining

in support after the debate, while none of his rivals made meaningful headway.

ASHER: And if you're wondering why he isn't bothering with the debates, just take a look at these numbers from two key early voting states. In both

Iowa and in New Hampshire, the former president has actually twice -- twice as much support as any of his competitors.

Time now for The Exchange. Joining me live now is CNN's Senior Political Commentator, Adam Kinzinger, a former Republican congressman who has been a

fierce critic of Donald Trump's grip on the party. Adam, so good to have you on the show. Thank you so much.

So, when you think about what's at stake for the seven people who are on stage tonight, I mean, obviously they think that there's a chance that they

could have a shot at the presidency, but when you think about Donald Trump's tight grip, on the Republican Party, is it just a pipe dream at

this point? Is there anything that they can say tonight that can actually change voters' minds?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I think it's like -- I think that they're kind of betting on, number one, okay, a white horse

comes down and a magical pony descends and somehow Donald Trump isn't in the race anymore. And then they're kind of competing for that lane. Like,

who is Trump-lite? Who's going to be able to pick that up?

The other is, you know, maybe Donald Trump decides at the last minute he's not going to run and so then, I don't know, Vivek or whatever. And then

there's the hope of I want to be in Donald Trump's cabinet.

And so, you'll see a lot of these candidates are not attacking Donald Trump. They're actually saying, oh, I'll absolutely support him if he wins

the nomination. Well, he's going to win the nomination at this point. And they just want a cabinet position. They may be running for vice president

or something like that.

There's also the 20-28 game, which is if I put a good enough performance and don't take anybody off, I may be in the running for 2028 and that's

actually not too bad of a strategy on that end. But you cannot defeat the front runner by pretending like he's the best thing since sliced bread.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, and how do you justify why you're in fact running if he is the best candidate for the job? And it's not just that he's sitting this

one out, Adam. He's really counter-programming, as he is famous for doing. He will be speaking with non-union auto workers, blue-collar workers in

Michigan, a day after President Biden was picketing there with union workers.

You know, this is a pivotal, very important state for President Biden and also for the former President Trump there. Trump won in 2016. Biden won by

150,000 votes in 2020. From a political standpoint, is this a smart move that Trump is making tonight?

KINZINGER: Yeah, probably. Well, first off, anytime he can suck the oxygen out of the room, he does, and it actually works for him. So, I'll give him

credit for that. And I think this is, you know, look, again, outside of the moral side of this, so let's just take the raw politics of it. Donald

Trump, and frankly the Republican Party has made real inroads into work in America, into blue-collar workers, actually in the unions.

[12:40:00]

The Republican Party's not pro-union. I actually had a lot of union support when I was in and I was starting to see that trend happen where they're

turning to the GOP. So, this is something probably smart for Donald Trump to do. It's funny because he's absolutely not the working man. Let's be

serious. This is a guy that's worth like maybe worth billions, although maybe he's not now that we see this court case.

ASHER: Maybe not, right?

KINZINGER: Yeah, maybe not.

GOLODRYGA: But it works for him, Adam. It works for him.

KINZINGER: It does. It does because people just want somebody to say the truth. And while Donald Trump lies all the time, it sounds like he's

telling the truth because he's just saying what nobody else has the, quote, unquote, "courage to say". In reality, most people just have decency.

ASHER: When you think about what, you know, voters are looking for, just back to the debate tonight, is it about policy or is it just purely about

being entertained? I mean, some of the policies, for example, announced by someone like Vivek.

A lot of people consider them somewhat controversial, a lot of people have questioned them, but he is by far the most entertaining, he has the best

quips. So, what are voters looking for? Do they want policy, do they want substance, or is it just about entertainment?

KINZINGER: Look, I think, by and large, Republican voters are looking for, make the left mad, say something that ticks them off, kind of

entertainment. There is a group of Republicans still focused on policy, and you see this in like Nikki Haley as she kind of made an advance. You see

this among Chris Christie, et cetera. So that's a, I want to call it about a third of the GOP.

Maybe a third kind of swings back and forth between the two, and then about a third is just like, let's go out and make people mad. And I think it's

why those folks, for instance, are against Ukraine aid. It really has nothing to do with the war in Ukraine has everything to do with taking off

those of us who, you know, believe Russia is a pretty bad force in the world.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, the debate is also taking place a few days before what is likely to be a government shutdown at the hands of a few of your former

members of Congress. You know them quite well. We saw the Senate pass a CR just yesterday, but it doesn't look like Congress is willing to pick that

up at this point.

Traditionally, past government shutdowns -- Republicans were blamed for. How do you expect the candidates tonight on stage to address this issue?

KINZINGER: Well, they'll do what's popular among the GOP. And I've been through two shutdowns. Right before it, the base wants you to shut it down,

because they're under this impression, if you shut down the government, you save money, you can win because you hold out and make the other side just

like so upset they finally give in. It never happens that way, and we always forget every year.

So, I think you'll see some candidates try to play to that shut it down crowd because they don't have to own a shutdown. They can always say they

would have done something slightly different and that's what they know I would have negotiated here.

So, I think there's a good chance it shuts down. It's not really a huge impact on foreign policy for instance, but then you will see this pressure

ratchet up and it's a very miserable thing as a member of Congress during a government shutdown because people are micro watching you. If you go to the

bar and have a drink, you can expect to be on the front page of the paper.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, and you know who was saying shut it down? Former President Donald Trump, right? He's the one egging them on. Who oversaw the longest

U.S. government shutdown, we should note. CNN Senior Political Commentator Adam Kinzinger always tells it like it is. That's why we love having you

on. Thanks so much.

ASHER: We do, we do.

KINZINGER: You bet.

GOLODRYGA: Well, coming up for us, it's a happy homecoming for an American astronaut who spent a record-breaking amount of time in space. You'll hear

his story ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:46:14]

ASHER: All right, Mauritius has one of the highest GDPs per capita on the African continent, and the government is prioritizing innovation as a key

driver for growth. In today's Africa Insider, we look at a financial tech start-up that's helping develop the East African country's payment

ecosystem. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAYOWA KUYORO, PARTNER, MCKINSEY NIGERIA: Mauritius is emerging as one of the top destinations for Fintechs on the continent because from a

regulatory perspective, the government is quite deliberate about putting into place policies that both attract but also help to make sure that

innovation and technology-based companies find that as an attractive destination.

SEBASTIENE LE BLANC, FOUNDER AND CHIEF GROWTH OFFICER, MIPS: Fintechs really matter in the growing of the African economy because it's a missing

link between financial institutions, merchants, and clients, and users.

MIPS originally meant Mauritius Internet Payment System, but now it has become Multiple Internet Payment System, working with all six different

means of payment available in Mauritius -- meaning payment apps, wallets, financial apps in Mauritius, and both for e-commerce and the physical walk-

in machines, allowing the merchant to keep synchronized every digital means of payment coming into his ecosystem, will it be e-commerce or front-facing

for walk-in customers.

I just made with the same machine a payment by card. Previously, I just made a payment with a QR code. The two types of payment were going through

different financial institutions, but for the merchant and for the user perspective, it is one ecosystem. The same back office is used for the

merchant. The cashier doesn't have to ask the client which means of payment you will use. Everything is synchronized to the same back office.

We have approximately 1000 merchants in our portfolio at MIPS. We have fuel stations, so these are big merchants. We have government institutions, but

we also have SMEs, little shops. And the presence of MIPS logo makes me very proud, especially when I go with my kids to these shops and they say,

hey dad, this is your logo.

MIPS operates mainly in Mauritius. We also operate in Seychelles, Maldives, and Madagascar. Our next step is to still continue playing in Mauritius,

using Mauritius as a playground. Our mother country uses it as, you know, to test some new ideas and to bring these new ideas as a Fintech player

into mother Africa.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:51:47]

GOLODRYGA: This is just an incredible story. A 46-year-old Swiss man who was paralyzed after a devastating fall is now regaining some movement, all

thanks to artificial intelligence. Our Nick Watt shows us how a brain implant is providing new hope.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVE MARVER, CEO, ONWARD: If you talk to people with paralysis, it's their number one priority. They want to restore hand and arm function even above.

They prioritize that above the ability to stand and walk again.

NICK WATT, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): Here's how it works. An implant is placed on the brain above the motor cortex. A.I. in that implant,

decipherers intent to move arms, hands, fingers, then relays that information wirelessly to another implant in the body, so, bypassing the

damaged spine. A.I. in that implant triggers the right muscles to actually make those movements. They call this thought-driven movement. Dr. Jocelyn

Block performed the surgery.

JOCELYN BLOCH, NEUROSURGEON, LAUSANNE UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: We remove a little bit of bone, we replace this piece of bone by this set of electrodes

and then we close the skin. This implant is going to work wirelessly and activate the spinal cord stimulation.

WATTS (voice-over): Her partner, a neuroscientist, first had this sci-fi idea years ago then, waited for tech to catch up.

GREGOIRE COURTINE, NEUROSCIENTIST: If you are paralyzed with your hand and you can just open and close, it's a huge change. So, then, you could eat.

You are gaining independence. The change in the activity of daily living is dramatic. This is why this new project is so exciting.

WATT (voice-over): We met Bloch and Gregoire Courtine in July to discuss their previous project, another world's first, fitting a similar device to

this man who lost the use of his legs after a bicycle accident.

GERT-JAN OSKAM, PARALYZED IN A CYCLING ACCIDENT: Now, the implants are able to capture my thoughts of walking and able to transfer to the stimulator in

my flow back.

WATT (voice-over): But they say restoring arm and hand function is actually harder.

MARVER: It's more refined, especially if we want to extend the restoration of movement to the fingers and not just the arms. So, help them grasp

something or help them use individual digits.

WATT (voice-over): While it is still too early to provide full results, Onward told us, "We are pleased to report that the technology works as

expected and appears to successfully reanimate his paralyzed arms, hands, and fingers."

MARVER: We'll learn a lot from that first person, then we'll expand to four or five people, and then if that goes well, we'll conduct a global pivotal

trial and hopefully get FDA approval and make it available.

WATT (on-camera): A lot of work still to be done for sure, but they, with these trial surgeries, have proved this can be done. Something many people

thought was impossible, restoring movement after a spinal cord injury.

One legal ethicist told me so many people could benefit from this that we have an ethical imperative to continue this research. We looked into this

and so much more for an episode of "The Whole Story" airing here on CNN next month. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[12:55:00]

ASHER: That was absolutely remarkable. You think about the sorts of things that we all take for granted. I mean, being able to walk, being able to run

for the train, being able to swing your legs out of bed, and hopefully this technology can actually make a difference to a lot of people.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, that is why so many of these scientists that are focusing on A.I. right now are still far more optimistic. They are worried about the

technology, but most of them do continue to say it needs to be regulated. But we'll be watching more on the story.

ASHER: "The Whole Story".

GOLODRYGA: Yep, as well.

ASHER: All right, well, after spending an entire year in space, the ride of a lifetime is over for one astronaut.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Touchdown. Touchdown confirmed at 6:17 A.M. Central Time. Rubio's record ride comes to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: He spent a long time in space. Frank Rubio spent about 371 days up there, about a year. That is a record for any American astronaut.

GOLODRYGA: I bet he has a lot of stories to tell. Rubio landed in Kazakhstan with his two Russian crewmates just a few hours ago. He was only

supposed to be on the International Space Station for six months, but his trip back was derailed by a fault with a vehicle that should have brought

him back to Earth.

Rubio, who has four children is now expected to begin the journey back to the United States. Quite a few birthdays he's missed. A lot of catching up

to do.

ASHER: Well, that does it for us in this hour of One World.

GOLODRYGA: So great to be with you again, Zain. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. Thank you for watching. Amanpour is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END