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One World with Zain Asher

People In Gaza Continue Fighting For Their Lives; Taylor Swift Makes History Once Again. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired November 10, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST: No safe place in Gaza. That is how a medical official describes the scene as Israeli tanks have his hospital surrounded.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: "One World" starts right now. Fighting for their lives. Several people injured at an outpatient facility in Gaza after

witnesses say strikes hit the area. We'll tell you everything we know about what's happening right now.

ASHER: U.S. support for Israel could damage ties with the Arab world for a generation. That's the message in a diplomatic cable obtained by CNN.

GOLODRYGA: And on a much lighter note, it is Taylor's world. We're just living in it. How Taylor Swift is making history once again.

ASHER: All right, good to be with you on this Friday afternoon. Coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Welcome to "One World". As Israeli troops push deeper into Gaza City, fighting is raging on the ground and

health care facilities are reportedly coming under attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Explosions were seen near two hospitals in northern Gaza. And a new video shows the aftermath of an apparent strike on a third. We want to warn

you though some of the video you're about to see here is indeed very graphic. You hear the horror and there's just the sound of people screaming

there.

There's social media videos emerging of people injured near what is said to be an outpatient clinic of the Al-Shifa hospital, where many Palestinians

were sheltering, and where Israel says that Hamas militants are hiding in tunnels underneath the hospital. So far, though, the IDF has not commented.

GOLODRYGA: And the director of another hospital, this one for children, telling CNN it is now surrounded by Israeli tanks. This comes as the

Palestinian health ministry in Ramallah says more than 11,000 people have been killed in Gaza since the war began. The U.S. Secretary of State, in

one of his strongest condemnations yet, says Israel needs to do more to protect Palestinian civilians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Far too many Palestinians have been killed. Far too many have suffered these past weeks. And we want to do

everything possible to prevent harm to them and to maximize the assistance that gets to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: CNN's Nada Bashir joins us for more from Jerusalem. Nada, so what more do we know about these recent strikes reported at the hospitals?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, we have been hearing the warnings for some time now as we have seen airstrikes edging closer and closer to the

vicinity of Gaza's hospitals. Those warnings have been coming for some time now from medics and health officials on the ground.

Now, we are hearing from a spokesperson from the World Health Organization describing the situation at the Al-Shifa hospital, which is the largest

hospital in Gaza, describing this as the hospital being under bombardment. And we've heard from eyewitnesses on the ground. We've seen the dramatic

and graphic video of the situation outside the hospital at the outpatient clinic.

Witnesses there accusing Israel of carrying out an airstrike on the vicinity of the hospital. But as you mentioned, no comment just yet from

the Israel Defense Force. But those eyewitness accounts, those videos are terrifying and graphic to say the least. A number of people outside the

hospital clearly visibly injured.

You heard the screams in that video you just played. People urgently calling for an ambulance in that video. And of course, as we know, it is

not just patients and medical staff that are at the Al-Shifa hospital, but there are thousands of people sheltering around Gaza's hospitals in the

hope that these hospitals will remain a safe haven.

But clearly, that is not the case. We've seen this in a number of other hospitals across Gaza, as well. Just today at the Al-Aouda hospital, once

again, officials there accusing Israel of carrying out airstrikes in the vicinity of the hospital. They say at least 10 people were injured there

and damage sustained by hospital infrastructure as well as two ambulances.

And of course, we have heard those warnings from further two hospitals -- the Al Nasser hospital officials there and the El Ran Tisi pediatric

center. They have described the situation as being hugely difficult.

[12:05:00]

They say they are now surrounded. They are appealing to the Red Cross to facilitate the evacuation of patients and civilians there. But as you've

seen in the last couple of hours, video emerging of civilians attempting to flee these hospitals, but being pushed back seemingly by gunfire. As we

know, the vast majority of Gaza's hospitals are now completely out of operation, and the situation there for Gaza's health care sector is

deteriorating by the hour.

GOLODRYGA: All right, Nada Bashir reporting to us live from Jerusalem. Thank you. So, is Israel doing enough to protect innocent civilians? We'll

be speaking with a war crimes expert later this hour.

ASHER: And CNN actually had an opportunity to get a firsthand look at the situation on the ground in northern Gaza. Our Oren Liebermann actually went

there. He embedded with an Israeli military unit. It was incredible video. But to be transparent, Orin reported from Gaza under Israeli Defense Forces

escort at all times.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, as a condition for journalists to embed with the IDF, media outlets must submit footage filmed in Gaza to the Israeli military

for review. Now, CNN did not submit its script to the IDF and had editorial control over the final report. As you're about to see, the area is a far

cry from what it used to be before the war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORREPSONDENT (voice-over): Through the breach, we enter northern Gaza at the Erez border crossing. The land here,

once fertile farmland, is barren, and the trees that might have provided enemy cover destroyed. In the distance, smoke from an Israeli airstrike is

a stark reminder that this is day 34 of a war that may stretch much longer.

On Thursday, the IDF Chief of Staff and the head of the country's internal security service entered Gaza and promised strength through cooperation.

Everyone is doing everything, said General Hertzy Alevi, just so you can be as strong as possible.

Along our path in northern Gaza, the signs of civilian life have given way to the constant hum of drones and the distant echoes of artillery. Our time

with the IDF began at the coordination base for the border crossing, the first international media to visit the site. The terror attack on October

7th hit hard here, the scars of machine gun fire and RPGs still visible.

The base was mostly empty on the holiday, but not entirely. The IDF says nine soldiers were killed here and three kidnapped. It took 12 hours for

Israel to regain control of the base. Now it's one of the main gates to Gaza.

A month into the war, more than 10,000 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza, according to the Hamas-controlled Palestinian

Health Ministry there. The IDF says 35 Israeli soldiers have been killed in the strip since the start of the incursion. The October 7th attack by Hamas

in Israel killed more than 1400 people, mostly civilians. We stop at an overlook near the town of Jabalia.

LIEBERMANN: One of the things uncovered here on this hill near Jabalia is a meeting point of three different tunnels. And you can see if you take a

look, that's one, two, three. They came together here and it let Hamas move underground quickly below the feet and out of sight.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Colonel Tal, the tank commander, says there were many explosives here. There were many trenches. There were a lot of weapons

and ammunition. We found here a storage site with many explosives. against tanks, RPGs. Even from a distance, the scale of the destruction is

stunning. Apartment buildings, homes, neighborhoods, decimate.

Colonel Tal says the area is almost completely evacuated. We don't see civilians in our eyes. We see sometimes terrorists, but the majority of

civilians haven't been here in a while. They've all gone south in the direction of the heart of the strip.

As we talk, we hear rocket fire and see the trails of the launches triggering red alerts in Ashdod. After about 90 minutes inside northern

Gaza, we make our way out, hugging the border wall for safety. Even here, so close to the exit, we stop briefly so the dust clears and we can make

sure the way ahead is safe. In the distance once again, the smoke from another strike.

LIEBERMANN: Israel has said they have effectively encircled Gaza City in northern Gaza, and the IDF said on Thursday they will deepen their ground

operations there. A big focus, as we've seen, has shifted to the tunnels as the IDF tries to get at those and destroy Hamas' underground

infrastructure. Oren Liebermann, CNN in Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: All right, thanks to Oren. It really is so important to see the access from the point that he's been given there --

ASHER: Right, right.

GOLODRYGA: -- and just see what's happened to Gaza in the last few weeks. Meantime, the U.S. has said consistently that its support for Israel's

security is unwavering, and that includes backing what it calls Israel's legitimate right to self-defense.

[12:10:00]

However, recent cables from U.S. diplomatic outposts in the Middle East obtained by CNN warn that the Biden administration's stance could have

repercussions in the Arab world.

ASHER: In fact, a message from the U.S. Embassy in Oman reads, "We are losing badly on the messaging battle space," adding that the U.S. is seen

as supporting possible war crimes. The American Embassy in Cairo relayed to Washington commentary from a state-run Egyptian newspaper which said,

quote, "President Biden's cruelty and disregard for Palestinians exceeded all previous U.S. presidents", end quote. So far, there has been no comment

on the cables from the U.S. State Department.

GOLODRYGA: Well, as the war in Gaza intensifies, a number of diplomatic efforts are underway to address the growing crisis. Arab leaders are

holding emergency talks in Saudi Arabia this weekend to push for a complete ceasefire in Gaza. The emergency meetings come as the Israel-Hamas war

rages into its second month, flaming fears that the conflict could destabilize the entire region.

ASHER: Meantime, the Egyptian president, Al Sisi, also hosted Qatar's Amir in Cairo earlier today, both countries calling for de-escalation of the

violence in Gaza and stressing the need for humanitarian aid. Qatar has been serving as a key broker in negotiations to try to release the hostages

being held by Hamas in Gaza.

GOLODRYGA: And U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has been on a nine- day trip through the Middle East and beyond with a message for support for Israel, but also stressing that far too many Palestinian civilians have

been killed.

ASHER: CNN's Ben Wedeman is standing by for us in southern Lebanon. So, Ben, let's just talk about the fact that you have a lot of Arab diplomats,

a lot of leaders in the Arab world meeting, trying to call for a ceasefire in terms of what's happening in the war in Gaza. Both the U.S. and Israel

right now say a ceasefire is simply not possible because of course, it would give Hamas the upper hand. Just walk us through that.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, clearly there is a very clear contradiction between the position of the United States

refusing a ceasefire and what we're hearing from almost the entirety of the Arab leadership, which will be meeting tomorrow in an emergency summit in

the Saudi capital of Riyadh.

A spokesman for the Arab League saying that the Arab League demands an immediate ceasefire. He stressed that they're not interested in these

humanitarian pauses, which many in the Arab world have likened to just giving food to somebody while they're being beaten to death.

So, it's difficult to say what these Arab leaders will be able to do, given that they haven't used any sort of the non-military weapons at their

disposal, for instance, an Arab oil embargo, like happened back in 1973 under the leadership of then-Saudi King Faisal.

Now, also, happening tomorrow in Riyadh is going to be a summit of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, another one of these Middle Eastern

talking shops that don't really achieve much.

What's interesting is that Ebrahim Raisi, the President of Iran, is going to be there. That's the first time an Iranian President has been to Saudi

Arabia in a very long time. And according to a spokesman for Raisi, if the organization of Islamic conference summit does not result in any lessening

of the violence in Gaza, he says, perhaps the conflict will broaden.

Now, you mentioned earlier the visit of the Qatari Amir to Cairo today. Also yesterday, the head of the Politburo of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, and the

head of Islamic Jihad, met with Abbas Kamel, the head of Egyptian intelligence.

That certainly indicates the Egyptians are trying to move the situation forward, perhaps trying to convince Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which also

does hold some of these captives in Gaza, to somehow start releasing some of them, perhaps to allow for, if not a permanent ceasefire, at least a

temporary one. Zain.

ASHER: All right, Ben Wedeman live for us there. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: The White House has confirmed that U.S. President Biden's much anticipated meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping will take place on

Wednesday in California. Both leaders will be in San Francisco for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit. It will be their first face-to-

face meeting this year. And it comes during a particularly tense time in the relationship between the world's two biggest economies.

ASHER: And they're expected to address a number of issues, including efforts to restore military communication between the two countries, a top

objective for President Biden.

[12:15:00]

All right, still to come here on "One World". A civil rights group says that attacks on Arabs and Muslims in the U.S. has skyrocketed since the

October 7th attacks. We'll take a closer look at rising bias and what exactly is being done to stop it.

GOLODRYGA: And later, while the people of Gaza suffer, the leaders of Hamas are nowhere near the fight. We'll show you where they are hiding out when

"One World" continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Well, there are rules of war, internationally accepted guidelines that lay out exactly what is and is not acceptable. As we said

earlier, there are now 11,000 civilians dead in Gaza, according to the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Health.

ASHER: And we have actually seen countless hospitals hit by Israeli airstrikes. I want you to look at this video right here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: This was actually filmed from just outside the Al-Adha Hospital in Gaza. We didn't actually have to search hard for this video. It was taken

just last night. Meantime, the U.N. now says that 50 percent, basically half, of all the homes in Gaza have pretty much been destroyed, been

reduced to rubble.

Some are saying that all of this amounts to genocide. And the international community is growing increasingly frustrated at the way innocents are being

impacted by Israel's war on Hamas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLKER TURK, U.N. COMMISIIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: After four weeks of bombardment and shelling by Israeli forces in Gaza, the indiscriminate

effects of such weapons in a densely populated area is clear. Israel must immediately end the use of such methods and means of warfare, and the

attacks must be investigated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: But it's important to remember that there is, of course, another side to all of this, and that is the fact that no one is denying that Hamas

committed horrible, horrible war crimes on October 7th, and it continues to do so every day. It holds onto hostages that it took that day.

GOLODRYGA: And Israel says the civilian death toll in Gaza is the direct result of Hamas embedding its command and control structure inside and

under homes and hospitals. Hamas has been accused of using the people of Gaza as a shield against Israel's military might.

So, who is right and who is wrong in this debate about the rules of war? Let's bring in Columbia Law School Professor Matthew Waxman. He is the

Director of the National Security Law Program there. Matthew, it is good to see you.

[12:20:00]

So, allegations of war crimes leveled against Israel have increased over the past couple of weeks, as you know. Let's start with the basics. I don't

think there's a serious person who doesn't say Israel has a right to defend itself and that this was a just war to start. That having been said, Israel

still has a duty to carry out the war in accordance with the law. From what you've seen these past few weeks, is Israel holding up that obligation?

MATTHEW WAXMAN, COLUMBIA LAW PROFESSOR: I think Israel is. But reasonable people can disagree about how it's striking certain balances and where they

would draw certain lines. I mean, ultimately the law of war, law of armed conflict is based on balancing two interests, military necessity, the need

to wage war effectively and humanitarian interests.

And that's a balancing that is difficult to apply in urban combat. It's especially difficult to apply when the enemy is embedding itself in the

civilian population in one of the most densely populated places on earth. And so, as I say, different people can draw reasonable conclusions. But I

do think that Israel is a rule of law country that works hard to abide by the laws of war.

ASHER: Matthew, Zain here. Is it incumbent upon Israel to provide evidence? Every single time that they strike what is ostensibly a civilian target,

so, for example, a hospital or a refugee camp, for example, that these targets are a little bit more complex and they're not sort of

straightforward civilian targets, and they are, in fact, legitimate military targets because Hamas' operations are based underground. Is it

incumbent upon Israel to provide evidence of that every time it does so?

WAXMAN: As a legal matter, it's not incumbent on Israel to do so, but as a strategic matter, I think it's wise. The laws of war require that parties

not deliberately target civilians and that they take into account the anticipated, the likely civilian harm.

When a party is using a civilian site, a hospital, a mosque, a school, in order to conduct military operations, that site becomes a military target.

If Israel provides evidence of that, it strengthens its case in the International Court of Public Opinion. But the law doesn't strictly require

that Israel come forward with that evidence.

GOLODRYGA: Matthew, we heard from Secretary of State Blinken today say some of the harshest criticism against Israel in terms of how it's conducting

this war, saying that far too many Palestinians have been killed. I'd like to play sound for you from Mike Turner, the Chairman of the House Intel

Committee, when asked by our Jake Tapper whether Israel was doing enough to prevent the loss of civilian life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: You're the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. You see the intelligence. Are you convinced that Israel is

really significantly, sincerely trying to limit civilian casualties or not?

MIKE TURNER, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: Well, we just had a classified briefing this week, and we all walked away with the impression that certainly,

Israel is attempting to do that. But, of course, the United States is still not pleased that things are not up to the standards that we would expect or

hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So, does the U.S. have different standards it's applying here to war? And where does this critique from Mike Turner fall in terms of the

rule of law, specifically when it comes to proportionality?

WAXMAN: Right. Well, let me begin by saying that regardless of where one stands on the conflict, who's right and who's wrong, I think our shared

humanity demands that we feel sorrow for the victims of Hamas' atrocities and for the tragic widespread civilian harm and deprivations that's

resulting during this war.

The laws of war do require that states or parties to a conflict take reasonable actions, reasonable precautions to try to reduce the civilian

harm. That's why the United States has been pressing Israel to allow in humanitarian assistance, open up corridors, take certain pauses. It's also

why Israel has been warning the citizens of Gaza to move out of the areas in which Israel intends to conduct very high-intensity urban combat

operations.

So, I think the United States is probably right in pressing Israel to take some of these steps.

[12:25:00]

But where one draws that line can be tricky. And I think a lot of this is also driven by United States' concerns that high levels of collateral

damage are undermining Israel's support in the international community.

ASHER: Matthew, as you point out, you know, and Biana has touched on this as well, this war is extremely complex. Israel, of course, does have the

right to defend itself. But just to touch on proportionality again, when you look at what happened on October 7th, Hamas militants brutally,

viciously murdered 1400 Israelis. And those attacks were horrific.

When you look at what's happening on the ground in Gaza, 11,000 Palestinians have been killed. That is 10 times higher than what we saw on

October 7th. A lot of critics will say, listen, those numbers just simply are not proportional. This war is, of course, complex. What do you say to

that?

WAXMAN: Yeah, so the proportionality rule says that parties to a conflict must not engage in military operations where the expected civilian injury -

- the expected civilian suffering is excessive to the expected military gain of operations. It's not a comparison of body counts. It's not an eye

for an eye, two eyes for two eyes.

And Israel, on October 7th, suffered one of the most barbaric attacks I've ever seen or read about. Hamas, besides the attacks that have been so well

publicized, also shot thousands of rockets indiscriminately at Israel.

And Israel and Israelis continue to face a very, very grave threat, a continuing grave threat from Hamas. That means that as a matter of

international law, Israel is within its rights to use very high levels of military force in order to defend itself. Of course, it needs to take into

account civilian suffering. Of course, it needs to take steps to try to reduce that civilian suffering.

But tragically, when facing a terroristic enemy that embeds itself in a civilian population and goes out of its way to put its own civilians, the

civilians that it claims to be defending in harm's way, using them as human shields, dissuading them or forcing them from evacuating areas in which

Israeli military operations are expected, we're going to have, very tragically. high levels of civilian harm, civilian injury.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, and we should that Hamas continues to shoot rockets into Israel indiscriminately. Columbia Law School Professor Matthew Waxman,

thank you so much --

ASHER: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: -- for your expertise and analysis. We appreciate it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: All right, welcome back to "One World", I'm Zain Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Let's get back now to those reported Israeli strikes near hospitals in Gaza. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh has more.

And a warning, her report contains video that is difficult to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Night 34 of this war brought hell to Gaza's hospitals. Death so close for these medics

outside Alauda hospital, they recited their final prayers. The hospital says several were injured in these strikes, and two ambulances were

completely damaged.

It was one of several hospitals struck in what was a night of horror for those sheltering at medical facilities in northern Gaza. And on Friday,

more heartache came with these devastating scenes at Al-Shifa hospital complex.

The haunting screams of those who survived this blast. Days confused, searching for loved ones amongst the dead and injured. Images that

infuriated humanitarians like Norwegian Dr. Mads Gilbert, who volunteered at Al-Shifa in the past.

MADS GILBERT, VOLUNTEER DOCTOR: President Biden, Mr. Blinken, Mr. Blinken. Can you hear me? Prime Ministers and Presidents of the European countries,

can you hear me? Can you hear the screams from Shifa Hospital, from Alauda's Hospital? Can you hear the screams from innocent people, refugees,

sheltering, trying to find a safe place, being bombed by the Israeli attack forces, hospitals that are the temples of humanity and protection?

KARADSHEH (voice-over): But this is a war with no red lines, and hospitals are no sanctuary for the tens of thousands crammed into these hospitals,

desperate to be protected from a war like no other Gaza has ever seen.

For weeks, the Israeli military has been calling on civilians to move south, to get out of harm's way, they say. But so many have been reluctant

to heed these calls. Airstrikes and death have followed Gazans to the south. Nowhere is safe in this besieged territory.

But as Israeli military opened up a humanitarian corridor amid intense fighting in the north, tens of thousands had no choice but to run in scenes

that evoke dark memories for Palestinians of an exodus from decades past, one from which there has been no return.

But not everyone can leave. The fighting has trapped some of the most vulnerable at two pediatric hospitals, where hundreds are sheltering and

doctors are calling on the ICRC to evacuate them. Israeli troops are right outside Nasr and Rentisi hospitals.

[12:35:00]

The hospital is surrounded by Israeli tanks from all directions, this young woman says. We were asked to evacuate now. She and others with this cry for

international protection and a safe passage out.

Back inside Al-Shifa, there's no stopping, no pauses for those on a mission to save lives. A father anxiously looks to doctors for good news, only to

be told his little boy is gone. Never have Gazans felt so abandoned, alone in this land of death and despair. Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: And it's images like that father crying over his son. It's why we have to warn viewers ahead of these pieces. It is so difficult to see

the toll that this has had on civilian lives.

We want to focus on another story that has had a huge impact on civilian lives since October 7th. The U.S. has seen a spike in both Islamophobia and

anti-Semitism. We've covered extensively the nearly 400 percent spike in anti-Semitic incidents in the last month. And now we want to take a look at

the increase in Islamophobia.

ASHER: Many in the Muslim communities around the world feel as though they've become scapegoats -- scapegoats that they're being blamed for the

vicious atrocities committed by Hamas a month ago.

In fact, the Council on American-Islamic Relations reports an unprecedented 216 percent jump in requests for help and reports of bias incidents in the

month since the October 7th attacks, compared to the same period just last year.

GOLODRYGA: And one terrible example, Wadaya Al-Fayyum, a six-year-old Palestinian boy, was stabbed to death, allegedly, by the landlord of his

family's Chicago area home.

ASHER: Time now for The Exchange. We're joined by the National Deputy Director of Care, Edward Ahmed Mitchell. Edward, thank you so much for

being with us. I think what's really tragic about the spike in Islamophobia is that it appears as though a lot of people are conflating the actions of

Hamas, the actions of a terror group with how they view Muslims as a whole. Why do we do that? Why do we do that? And how does that change, Edward?

EDWARD AHMED MITCHELL, NATIONAL DEPUTY DIRECTOR, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN- ISLAMIC RELATIONS: Well, first, let me note that it appears to us that Islamophobia is absolutely out of control in the United States. As you

noted, our new numbers show that we received 1283 complaints over just the past month. That's a 216 percent increase compared to last year.

That includes hate crimes, hate speech, free speech violations, employment discrimination, attacks on protesters and also employment, and school

bullying. So, it's a wide variety of problems that are plaguing the American Muslim community.

And yes, I think you're right, that there's a common habit of blaming people of color for things they had nothing to do with, simply because

someone who looks like them or shares their beliefs did something wrong.

But also, mind that there are people who are very deliberately using dehumanizing anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian language to not only justify

the killing of Palestinians in Gaza, but also to silent supporters of Palestinian human rights here in America. So, a lot of this is happening

because of a deliberate campaign of bigotry.

GOLODRYGA: Edward, you mentioned school bullying. And I always find this is one of the most important areas to focus on. The education secretary has

spent time with students and teachers and principals in how to address this issue. What is your message, and what more can be done to make sure that

children not only feel safe in schools, that should be a given, but feel welcome.

MITCHELL: A large chunk of the complaints we're receiving are from students, not only in public schools, but also in colleges. We've seen

schools that issued very biased, one-sided statements that acknowledge the horrific killing of Israeli civilians, but completely ignore the horrific

killing of Palestinian civilians. That created a really bad environment for Muslim Palestinian and other students.

And then you had incidents in which teachers themselves are delivering lesson plans that are not only biased but inappropriate, Islamophobic,

racist in nature, and then of course bullying. Kids bullying other kids because they're visibly Muslim, because they support Palestine. All that is

unacceptable.

And the way we can stop that is for schools to, number one, either just stay out of discussing foreign affairs like this or if they're going to do

it, discuss in a fair, neutral way and make sure that they treat anti- Semitic incidents with the same level of seriousness as anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian. You can't tolerate bigotry against one group of people

and then oppose it against another group of people.

ASHER: You know, some Muslim Americans that I've spoken to talk about just watching the relentless bombing of Gaza unfold and just saying it just

feels like a trauma, like a slow trauma, a nightmare that they wake up to every day seeing those sorts of images. Some Muslim Americans have

responded just politically talking about the fact that they're not going to be voting or supporting President Biden because he's siding with Israel.

[12:40:00]

My question to you is, if not Biden, then who? Because isn't the alternative a man who threatened or at least tried to ban Muslims from

entering the country?

MITCHELL: Look, as a civil rights organization, we don't tell people who to vote for or who to vote against. We encourage them to vote. My expectation

is that we are going to see a surprise in the voting totals next year in terms of who the Muslim community supports or does not support.

I'm hearing intense anger from the Muslim community about what they're seeing out of Gaza and about President Biden's, not only his support for

it, but the dehumanizing language, questioning the Palestinian death toll, saying that innocent Palestinians dying is the price of waging war. That

has really caused incredible anger in the Muslim community, and I think among other Americans.

And so, the more we see images of kids being pulled out of the rubble, hospitals and ambulances being bombed, refugee camps being blown up, that

anger is only going to increase, and I think all bets are off in 2024. We plan to encourage people to vote no matter who they're voting for. But I

think we're going to be in for a surprise with what happens next year.

GOLODRYGA: What more would you like to see from the Biden administration in particular on this issue? Because as you know, they have launched

initiatives as of late.

MITCHELL: Look, you know, this four-hour humanitarian pause is completely insufficient. It makes no sense to tell Palestinians during the four hours

a day to evacuate from Northern Gaza to Southern Gaza, where you're going to be bombed anyway, right?

What we don't need is ethnic cleansing in Northern Gaza. We need to ceasefire across all of Gaza, the release of everyone wrongly held in Gaza

and in Israel, and then for the Biden administration to pursue negotiations to secure a just and lasting peace. So, this does not happen over and over

again. The Israeli government has made it very clear. They've said there are no innocent civilians in Gaza. That's what Israeli President Herzog

said.

The defense minister said that they are going to be treating everyone like human animals, and that's why they're shutting down fuel and water and

other aid into Gaza and Prime Minister Netanyahu made a reference to a biblical story about wiping out, committing genocide against people. So,

the Israeli government has made it clear they are committing war crimes and our government must stop ignoring that and stop enabling it before more

innocent people die.

ASHER: Edward Ahmed Mitchell, live for us there. Thank you. Appreciate you joining us.

MITCHELL: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, tensions are at an all-time high over the conflict in Gaza and those tensions are reverberating around the world. In Los Angeles, a

massive brawl broke out during a film screening at the Museum of Tolerance of all places. Think about that. The film depicts the horrific attacks

Hamas committed in Israel on October 7th. Here's CNN's Stephanie Elam.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Clashes at L.A.'s Museum of Tolerance over a documentary screened inside. The end to a night of intense

emotion.

UNKNOWN: I couldn't watch all of it either. It's difficult.

ELAM (voice-over): The film, called "Bearing Witness", features more than 40 minutes of actual footage of the October 7th Hamas attacks. Actor Gal

Gadot, who is from Israel and has been outspoken on social media since the attacks, was involved in bringing the film to L.A. according to multiple

reports, but she was not in attendance. And most of the roughly 200 attendees had left the event by the time this brawl broke out between pro-

Israel and pro-Palestinian demonstrators.

UNKNOWN: Free Sam Ho!

ELAM (voice-over): Before the film even started, a small pro-Palestinian demonstration formed outside the theater as LAPD officers screened vehicles

and circled the museum. Some of the attendees say they felt compelled to see the atrocities with their own eyes.

UNKNOWN: We need to fight against terrorism. And in order to see it, in order to fight it, you have to see it and believe it and feel it.

UNKNOWN: We say, L'Edore V'Edore, from generation to generation, and people should know. And I can't know exactly what it was unless I watch it.

ELAM (voice-over): "The Hollywood Reporter" which was inside the screening, reports that the protests were audible through the wall of the theater,

prompting an Israel Defense Forces spokesperson who introduced the film. To tell the audience they believe some are trying to cast doubt on the Hamas

attacks, saying quote, I believe we are hearing some of it right now outside.

The LAPD said the event concluded with no issues, but that one hour later, a small group of demonstrators returned, leading to the brawl. Violence

outside that attendees say won't overshadow the atrocities they saw inside on screen.

UNKNOWN: I will carry it with me to pass that story on to the next generation and the next generation.

ELAM (voice-over): Stephanie Elam, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: All right, we'll be right back with much more after this short break.

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[12:45:00]

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GOLODRYGA: Israel has vowed to wipe out Hamas and its relentless attacks on Gaza has shown that it plans to keep that promise. But there is a problem

in that strategy. The leaders of Hamas, not all of them at least, are in Gaza.

ASHER: Are not in Gaza and the men who call the shots for Hamas are mostly located far away, living, it's said, in luxury. It's important to know that

CNN has not independently verified those claims, but here's our Fred Pleitgen with more on that side of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Israel's 162nd Division in Urban Combat in Central Gaza. This video was

provided by the Israel Defense Forces. They say their troops are now well inside Gaza City, where they found Hamas command and control as well as

weapons-making facilities.

We are now fighting a ground offensive that will only deepen, the IDF spokesperson says. In the heart of Gaza City, we will reach more and more

Hamas strongholds. Gaza's civilians continue to suffer as Israel presses on with its offensive. Tens of thousands fleeing the northern part of the

Strip in recent days, according to the U.N., while the Palestinian Ministry of Health says thousands have been killed or wounded in Hamas-controlled

Gaza.

Still, tough talk coming from Hamas' leader, Ismail Haniyeh, threatening the Israeli army. They are drowning in the sands of Gaza, he says. This

will cost them a lot on all fronts, including the life of their hostages.

But Ismail Haniyeh himself isn't even inside Gaza. Like much of Hamas' political leadership, he's in the safety and the comfort of Qatar. Recently

meeting with Iran's foreign minister there, a cynical situation, Israeli columnist and Hamas expert Shlomi Eldar tells me.

SHLOMI ELDAR, ISRAELI JOURNALIST: So, it's very easy to tell the Palestinian in Gaza state, OK, fight, make the Jihad, the Jihad is a war

against Israel and we'll give you an order from outside of Gaza.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Both Israel and the United States claim Hamas' leadership is wealthy and quote, "live in luxury abroad". CNN is not able

to verify those claims, but it's a stark contrast to the deteriorating living conditions the majority of Gazans have faced under a 16-year

blockade as the standoff between Hamas and Israel intensified.

[12:50:00]

After Hamas' October 7th attack, killing more than 1400 in southern Israel, with hundreds taken as hostages into the Gaza Strip, that has turned into a

full-scale war with all its consequences.

Hamas' leadership making clear, again from outside of Gaza, they're willing to sacrifice more civilians in Gaza. Will we have to pay a price, he asks?

Yes, and we are ready to pay for it. And Hamas' leaders in exile are calling on citizens of nations in the region to sacrifice, as well.

This is former Hamas boss Khaled Meshal, who is also not inside the Gaza Strip. I call firstly on the surrounding countries, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon

and Egypt, all of its sons and daughters. Your duty is bigger because you are closer to Palestine. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Really eye-opening report there from Fred. Well, I will be seeing you at the top of the hour for the latest edition of Amanpour. I'll

be speaking with a journalist in London who says that while the world's attention has been pulled to the Middle East, we have lost focus on the

worst war Europe has seen in generations happening right now in Ukraine. "One World" continues next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: All right, from the wrestling ring to the movie screen to the next leader of the United States, fans of the superstar want to smell what "The

Rock" is cooking inside the White House. Dwayne Johnson, who of course goes by the nickname, "The Rock", says that political parties have actually been

approaching him to throw his hat in the ring for a presidential run.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DWAYNE "THE ROCK" JOHNSON, ACTOR: In 2022, I got a visit from the parties asking me if I was going to run and if I could run.

UNKNOWN: Wow.

JOHNSON: And it was a big deal. And it came out of the blue. Wow. And it was one after the other. I was moved by that. And the reason why I had

given that response, if that's truly what the people want, then of course I would consider it. And after that response, that's when the parties came.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: And a poll actually taken two years ago actually found that nearly 60 percent of Americans would have actually liked to see Johnson as the

next President of the United States. All right, more news in the pop culture world. It is turning out to be Taylor Swift's big year at the

Grammy's.

[12:55:00]

A short time ago, the much-anticipated list of Grammy Award nominees was announced honoring artists across 94 categories. Taylor Swift's "Anti-Hero"

was nominated for Song of the Year, making her the first person in Grammy history with seven nominations in the prestigious

songwriting category. Here's a portion of that massive smash hit song.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Who doesn't know that song? "Anti-Hero" is not the star's only nomination, rather. Swift's "Midnights" was nominated for Album of the

Year. This ties her with Barbara Streisand for the most all-time nominations by a female artist in this category. Swift was also nominated

for Record of the Year and several other categories, as well. Grammys will be handed out during the award show on February 4th in Los Angeles.

All right, that does it for this hour of "One World". So glad to be with you this hour. I'm Zain Asher. Appreciate you watching. Amanpour is up

next.

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END