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One World with Zain Asher
Al-Shifa Hospital Continues To Be The Subject Of Claim And Counterclaim; Major Drama Unfolds In OpenAI; Tributes Paid To The Former First Lady Of The United States, Rosalynn Carter. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired November 20, 2023 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00]
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BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Despite international pressure on Israel, Gaza's hospitals are still coming under fire. "One World" starts
right now. Dozens of premature babies are being treated in Egypt today after being evacuated from Gaza's Al Shifa hospital.
Plus, a major political shift in Latin America. Argentina's far-right candidate wins the presidential race. What this means for the country's
economy. Also, drama in Silicon Valley as OpenAI employees threaten to quit after its prominent CEO is ousted from the company.
Hello everyone, live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. This is "One World". Zain is off. Health workers and civilians should never have to be
exposed to such horror, especially when inside a hospital. Those are the words of the head of the World Health Organization as another hospital in
Gaza comes under fire.
Hamas-run health authorities say 12 people were killed, including patients and a member of staff after a tank fire hit the Indonesian hospital. Israel
says it was responding to gunfire from within the hospital aimed at its troops. This as a group of premature babies from another hospital arrive in
Egypt via the Rafah Border crossing. An Egyptian official says 28 babies from the Al-Shifa hospital have now entered the country.
Al-Shifa, Gaza's largest hospital continues to be the subject of claim and counterclaim. Israel released new video to back up its assertion that Hamas
operated a network of tunnels beneath the hospital that have been hidden. The latest Israeli footage takes us inside a tunnel shaft found there
revealing spiral stairs, tunnel walls and a metal door.
Israel also released this video that it says shows two hostages being taken into Al-Shifa. The footage appears to be dated October 7th. Meanwhile,
sources tell CNN that a deal to secure the release of some hostages being held by Hamas may be days away. The Israeli prime minister is set to meet
some of their families in the next hour.
CNN's Oren Liebermann had more on the IDF video we just told you about. His team visited the hospital complex and other parts of Gaza under IDF escort.
As Oren explains in his report, they were operating under conditions set by the IDF, but CNN retained editorial control over the final report. Here's
his report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We go in under cover of darkness and as we cross the border fence, it's lights out across the Gaza
Strip. Escorted by a tank, we switch into an armored personnel carrier for the final stretch. Even through a night vision screen, you can see the
magnitude of the destruction on the streets of Gaza City. We offload at the Al-Shifa Hospital, pick our way along Ibn Sina Street, or what's left of
it.
UNKNOWN: Pete, watch your feet. Let's go.
LIBERMANN (voice-over): We have to keep our lights off most of the time or risk exposing our position. CNN reported from Gaza under Israel Defense
Forces escort at all times. As a condition for journalists to join this embed with the IDF, media outlets must submit footage filmed in Gaza to the
Israeli military censors for review. Now at the hospital compound, we wait inside a structure to make sure the area is secure before moving the short
distance to the exposed tunnel shaft.
LIEBERMANN: And here is the entrance. You can see what looks like a ladder accessing to it. And as I step over here, it's very difficult to see how
far down it goes but it looks like there's almost a central shaft for a staircase and then the shaft of it disappears then down into the darkness.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): We move around the opening for a better look at the shaft itself. What's clear from here is this is meant to go deep
underground.
LIBERMANN: Which direction does the tunnel go?
NIR DINAR, MAJOR, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES SPOKESPERSON: We assume that the tunnels goes out and it has another corridor to this way towards the
hospital. It connects the hospital to outside, which implies with the way that Hamas is working, Hamas is going out somewhere, shoots at our forces,
going back inside to a safe place.
LIBERMANN (voice-over): We weren't allowed to enter the shaft, but the Israeli military sent special gear down to see where this leads. Inside,
the video shows a spiral staircase, and as the camera orients itself, it moves forward into a tunnel. The tunnel makes a sharp left turn, and at the
end of another path with concrete walls an arched concrete top, a metal door they say they have not yet opened because they fear it's booby
trapped.
IDF spokesman Admiral Daniel Hagari says some of the Israeli hostages taken on October 7th were also brought through the hospital. He says the body of
Noah Marziano was discovered 50 meters from the compound.
DANIEL HAGARI, ADMIRAL, IDF SPOKESPERSON: We have evidence that they were holding hostages in Rantisi, but also we have evidence that they were
bringing them to Shifa Hospital. We're still looking for the places they might have held them.
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LIBERMANN (voice-over): This is not proof of a Hamas command center or headquarters underneath a hospital, but Israel continues trying to build
its case that Hamas uses the sanctuary of the hospital for cover, which Hamas and hospital officials have denied.
The IDF's ability to continue its operation in Gaza and the credibility of Israel are at stake here as the number killed in the fighting surpasses
12,000, according to the Hamas-run Ministry of Health. The IDF says one of its missions is to destroy Hamas, but with international criticism
mounting, Israel has to show the terror organization is using Gaza's civilians and infrastructure as cover to justify an on-going war. Oren
Liebermann, CNN in Gaza.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Oren Liebermann for that report. Meantime, the head of the World Health Organization says he was appalled by the attack on
Gaza's Indonesian hospital. CNN's Nada Bashir joins us from Jerusalem. Nada, what more are we learning?
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: We are hearing that condemnation now from the World Health Organization Chief saying that patients and civilians should
never be subjected to these sorts of horrors, particularly in medical facilities. And we have, of course, over the last few weeks seen a number
of hospitals and medical facilities coming under attack.
The Israeli Defense Force says it is targeting Hamas physicians. And, of course, with reference to the Indonesian hospital, where we have seen that
tank fire in the early hours of this morning. The Israeli military says it was responding to enemy fire coming from within the hospital. Health
officials and doctors on the ground, as well as one Palestinian journalist speaking to CNN earlier today have said that at least 12 people were
killed, including patients.
One Palestinian journalist describing Israeli tanks being at the gates of the hospital. The IDF says it was not targeting patients. But of course,
there is mounting concern around the safety and security of patients, of civilians and medical staff as we continue to see this on-going bombardment
and on-the-ground fire now edging closer towards the hospital and medical facilities, particularly of course, as we know, many patients, hundreds of
patients, simply cannot evacuate.
We have heard those repeated evacuation orders and in fact, over the weekend, we did see patients and civilians from inside the Al-Shifa
Hospital, Gaza's largest hospital, beginning to evacuate, some waving makeshift white flags.
As we know, the Israel Defense Force is carrying out a raid inside the Al- Shifa Hospital. They believe there is a Command and Control Center, a Hamas command and control center beneath the hospital. You saw there in Oren's
reporting that continues to be the focus of the IDF's on-going raid. But as we know, that fighting is edging closer to other hospitals. We know that
the vast majority of Gaza's hospitals in that northern region are now inoperational. They have run out of crucial supplies.
And we heard today from a doctor inside the Al Shifa hospital speaking to CNN saying that the hospital is in desperate need of humanitarian relief of
urgent supplies, particularly when it comes to medical supplies and medicine for those patients still inside the hospital.
As we understand it, according to a doctor on the ground, the IDF has provided some aid when it comes to food and water. However, the doctor has
said that this isn't enough. What they really need is those medical supplies. And as we begin to see more and more civilians moving southwards,
there is much concern of the situation that civilians face there, as well.
As we know, those airstrikes are continuing in the south. There are fears that we could begin to see that ground incursion deepening towards the
southern region, following those warning leaflets drop near the city of Khan Younis, southern Gaza's largest city.
And of course, as we know, there are some 1.5 million Palestinians now displaced inside the Gaza Strip, many of them in southern Gaza. And the
situations they are facing in terms of the humanitarian situation is deteriorating by the hour. The weather is getting worse, it's getting
colder, it's getting wetter, and many of them are living now in temporary tent shelters with nearby hospitals already overwhelmed. Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: All right, Nada Bashir reporting for us from Jerusalem. Thank you. Well, dozens of the war's tiniest, most vulnerable victims are now in
Egypt receiving emergency medical treatment. The first group of neonatal babies who were evacuated from the embattled Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza
crossed the border earlier. According to the Egyptian government, 28 premature infants arrived along with four mothers.
The World Health Organization says the babies are fighting serious infections. Eleven of them are in critical condition, and only some of them
have living relatives. CNN's Eleni Giokos joins me now live from Cairo where Egyptian authorities have been waiting for these seriously ill babies
for more than a week now. What are they reporting and telling you, Eleni?
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, firstly, there's relief that the babies actually came through the Rafah border. You know, the Egyptians
have been waiting for over a week now, already with incubators, ambulances, doctors every single day. And every day they've been going home
disappointed and still very near the border.
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Yesterday, we saw some movement and we saw the report coming through, ones that we just covered from Nada and Oren, as well. In terms of what we've
seen at Al-Shifa and just the war that's basically been raging on around the complex and also inside of Al-Shifa, creating a very complex and
dangerous environment for actual evacuation of the babies.
But they were able to leave Al-Shifa. They went to the Emirati hospital in Rafah. They had to be stabilized. And then they only came through the
border today. There was hope that we would be able to get into Egypt yesterday but we heard from doctors saying they needed to calm them down,
that they were very stressed.
WHO is saying 11 are in critical condition. We also know that they're fighting infections, as well. When they crossed over the border, we saw the
images of these very tiny bodies being moved into incubators and then been wheeled along into ambulances where they've been taken to hospitals here in
Egypt.
From what I'm hearing, my sources are telling me that the very serious conditions, the babies that are not doing well will be flown into Cairo.
They're very underweight from what I understand, and as we know, they're running various tests. The point is to try and stabilize them as quickly as
possible.
In terms of the number 28, only four parents accompany these babies. Six nurses and the big question is where are their living relatives? Are they
alive? Are they around? How do people track them down? We know that organizations are trying to embark on that work, but priority is of course
to keep them as healthy and safe as possible for now.
They have been through so much in the last few weeks with no oxygen and food. One mother was describing that in her experience in the hospital she
says, there was no milk and her baby daughter's condition worsened. And also, saying and making it plea that the babies that were born prematurely
are innocent in all of this and they do not deserve to die. They should live.
But the scenario playing out at Al-Shifa, the difficulty to try and get into the Egyptian border despite the fact that there were arrangements made
on the other side of the border, just goes to show how difficult and dangerous the move down to the Egyptian crossing is.
We have seen injured Palestinians being evacuated on a day-to-day basis. The point is that the Egyptians want to start increasing that extensively.
They want more injured people to come through. But it's a logistical challenge, Bianna. I mean, that's the reality of the matter. For now,
babies are in Egypt, and hopefully we'll get some better news in terms of their condition in the coming days.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, hopefully they are receiving the life-saving support that they so desperately need. Eleni Giokos in Cairo, thank you. The United
States of America is with you. U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin delivering a message of what Washington calls unwavering support for
Ukraine during a meeting with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. It is Austin's second trip to Kyiv since the Russian invasion in February of 2022.
And this one comes amid deepening divisions in the U.S. Congress over aid funding for Ukraine. CNN's U.S. National Security Reporter Natasha Bertrand
has been following the latest from the Pentagon. So, Natasha, I'm sure, welcome news to see the U.N.'s Defense Secretary travel to Kyiv. But of
course, the more pressing issue for the Ukrainians is whether more aid will be coming quickly.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: That is the big question, not only for the Ukrainians, but also for the Biden administration, of
course, because it remains completely unclear at this point whether Congress is going to pass that supplemental funding for both Ukraine and
Israel. And the Pentagon, they're running extremely low on funding for Ukraine, and they have had to provide Ukraine with increasingly smaller aid
packages.
We actually are set to see one today that is expected to be really in the $100 million range which is one of the smaller packages that we have seen
over the last year plus of this conflict. And so, this is a really acute issue.
And I think the Pentagon recognizes that sending Secretary of Defense Austin over to Ukraine to reassure them that they, that the U.S. continues
to support them in their fight, that they will continue to provide weaponry equipment to the extent possible, as well as, of course, reassure them that
the U.S. has not forgotten about them in this moment when the U.S.' attention and that of the international community is so focused on Israel
and Hamas is going to be extremely important, of course, to the Ukrainians because they are facing a very challenging winter ahead.
The U.S. and the Western officials, they expect that the Russians are going to try to attack as they often have Ukrainian critical infrastructure. And
that's obviously going to be really devastating to the Ukrainians in the winter. So, one of the key issues that Secretary of Defense Austin is going
to be discussing with the Ukrainians today and has been with President Zelenskyy and others are those air defense needs and how the U.S. can
continue providing the support to them as the war goes on.
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Some officials have said that they are concerned that the war has reached a stalemate. Senior defense officials this morning told reporters that they
dispute that characterization. They wouldn't characterize it as a stalemate just yet. But you know, undoubtedly there has been very little progress
made on either the Ukrainian or the Russian side.
And so, part of what Austin also will be speaking to today is, of course, the strategy for the Ukrainians over the next several months of their war
against Russia. And of course, the battlefield needs what they really need in order to sustain that fight. But again, the funding question here --
it's going to be extremely critical, and one the Ukrainians are paying very close attention to. Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, no doubt it was disappointing for them to see the funding bill to keep the U.S. government open did not include more aid for Ukraine
or Israel for that matter. Natasha Bertrand, thank you as always.
Well, coming up for us, what lies ahead as Argentina elects a new president whose campaign promises are raising a lot of eyebrows. And later this hour,
major corporate shake-up that's sending shockwaves throughout the artificial intelligence world.
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GOLODRYGA: Argentina's newly elected president is vowing to make Argentina great again. Sound familiar? Well, right-wing former TV pundit Javier Milei
has won the country's hotly contested presidential runoff election by winning 55 percent of the vote. Milei pledges to take a chainsaw approach
to public spending.
Argentina has one of the highest inflation rates in the world amid a rising poverty rate of more than 40 percent. Milei's answer to the problem is to
ditch the peso and adopt the U.S. dollar launching the country into unknown territory.
The president-elect's campaign drew comparisons to Donald Trump as he made promises to break up the status quo, echoing Trump's slogan to drain the
swamp. In Milei's victory speech, he declares an end to Argentina's decadence, saying that they will go back to the path that made Argentina
great.
I want to bring in senior research fellow for Latin America at Chatham House and Columbia University Professor Dr. Christopher Sabatini. Dr.,
great to have you on. So, let's talk about how this victory surprised so many because it wasn't that long ago that his opponent, Sergio Massa,
actually won the first round of the elections in October. So, what led to this surprise victory for Milei?
CHRISTOPHER SABATINI, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Well, I think several things. First of all, the other candidates who didn't make it into the
second round, who were in the first round, who lost the center right party split and part of them, including their founder, went and supported Milei.
Who didn't make it into the second round, who were in the first round, who lost the center right party split and part of them, including their
founder, went and supported Malay.
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And also, I think there was an element of popular frustration that continued to fuel Milei's rise. And so consequently, he won by 12 percent.
It's the largest margin of victory in the 40 years of Argentina's democracy since 1983. It's significant. And what's more surprising is it comes
against one of the most historic and powerful parties in Argentina, the Peronist Party.
GOLODRYGA: Well, clearly, it's a damning indictment on the status quo, but Milei has no executive experience and he faces questions about his ability
to even implement some of his proposals and his pledges, as we mentioned, taking a chainsaw to the state, slashing spending by up to 15 percent of
the gross domestic product and dollarize the economy. Is that even possible? Some of his priorities and some of his policies.
SABATINI: Yeah, it's probably unlikely for a number of reasons. First of all, he really hasn't offered any details on how he plans to implement many
of the proposals that you just highlighted. But second, they may even be just impractical. Argentina's economy of $600 billion GDP, trying to
implement or tie that currency and the economy to the dollar is going to be very difficult. And there simply aren't enough dollars in the central bank
to float that sort of level of currency.
But second, these cuts that you talked about, a 15 percent of GDP in public spending, more than 80 percent of Argentines benefit from public subsidies
or public largesse in some capacity of public employment. Implementing that is going to mean seriously undercutting people's social safety nets,
undercutting subsidies for public transport and energy, as well as employment. He's going to run smack dab into really a popular backlash if
he tries to implement that.
But lastly, he doesn't have a majority in either House of Congress. So, how he's going to implement this will almost have to be by executive decree or
by negotiation. But as you commented, the chainsaw symbol doesn't indicate he's particularly prone to concessions or negotiation.
GOLODRYGA: I mean, he's literally walked around displaying a chainsaw in case people didn't take that seriously enough. Can you talk about the
economic crisis that country has faced? Let's be honest, for decades now, I think it's one of the largest debtors to the IMF. Clearly, there is a
reason why so many came out to vote for anybody other than the current establishment there.
SABATINI: Yeah, the popular frustration is real and it's certainly understandable. Argentina has been a country of booms and busts for almost
over a century now. But in the last 40 years of democracy, it's gone through a number of booms and busts. And most recently, the Peronist Party,
the incumbent party right now, government, has governed for 16 of the past 20 years.
And during those 20 years, there's been a dramatic boom, but then again, another bust. And so, over the last 10 years, you've seen inflation
steadily climb to the point where it's at 140 percent right now. Poverty, as you mentioned, has risen to 40 percent of the population. And this year
alone, the economy is expected to contract by 2.3 percent.
What that means is that people simply don't see any viable alternatives in the political class. They simply are just basically throwing the bums out
because they blame them for not just the economic basking case of Argentina right now, but also for dimming popular and economic prospects. It's not
insignificant that the base of support for Milei is the youth.
And if you're under 30 right now, you're facing pretty damning economic prospects and employment prospects in the near future. They simply wanted
to change and they got a dramatic change both in terms of the political temperament of this man, Javier Milei, as well as what he represents in
terms of economic policies.
GOLODRYGA: We'll be watching closely. I mean, his critics argued that he's a threat to democracy. In some of the statements that he's put out there,
he's reigned them in the weeks leading up to the election. We'll be paying close attention to that. Christopher Sabatini, thank you.
SABATINI: Thank you, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Well, coming up, an important piece of the October 7th terror attacks that you have not heard much about. And that is a shame. The Hamas
attacks on women that will leave much more than physical scars.
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GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to "One World". I'm Bianna Golodryga. In the wake of the October 7th terror attacks by Hamas, our focus has shifted several
times. From the horrific Israeli death toll to the hostages taken from their homes, and now to the suffering of Gaza's people stuck between Israel
and its Hamas targets.
Among the horrors perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th, we're learning more about how Israeli women and girls were the victims of brutal rape and
sexual assault. CNN's Jake Tapper takes a look. But first, a warning. His contains graphic descriptions that may be disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: In the aftermath of the October 7th attacks by Hamas, Israel's focus immediately turned to war and to identifying the
bodies of those slaughtered by Hamas in Israel's largest mass casualty attack.
But now Israel is launching an investigation into allegations of rape and other forms of sexual violence on that deadly day. Israeli police are
starting to build rape cases, relying on eyewitness testimony, video and forensic evidence, as well as Hamas interrogations.
Dr. Cochav Elkayam-Levy, named Chair of the Civil Commission on October 7th crimes by Hamas against women and children, points to one reason why the
investigations have been so difficult.
COCHAV ELKAYAM-LEVY, DOCTOR, CHAIR, CIVIL COMMISSION ON HAMAS OCTOBER 7 CRIMES AGAINST WOMEN: We'll never know everything that has happened to
them. We know that most women who were raped and who were sexually assaulted were also murdered. And it will take time, even in other
atrocities, it takes time until the crimes against women are revealed, until survivors even share their stories.
TAPPER: Still, CNN found witnesses to the atrocities and their aftermath. G, a paramedic in Israel's Elite 69 Special Tactics Rescue Unit went house
to house in kibbutz Be'eri, one of the sites of the worst massacres. He did not want to be identified on camera.
UNKNOWN: While we're storming through those houses, one of the doors I open, it's a bedroom. I see two girls, two teenagers, I guess 13 or 14
years old.
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One is lying on the floor, one is lying on the bed. One on the floor, she's lying on her stomach. Her pants are pulled down towards her knees. And
there's a bullet wound on the backside of her neck near her head. And there's a puddle of blood around her head. And there's remains of semen on
the lower part of her back.
TAPPER (voice-over): G says the other teenage girl also appeared to have been assaulted.
UNKNOWN: There's a bullet wound on the upper part of her chest and there's bruises all over her body. So, you know, there was two girls that were just
killed, executed, perhaps also raped in their own bedroom.
TAPPER (voice-over): Israeli police say the bodies at Shura, one of the handful of sites where dead bodies are brought for identification, show
trauma consistent with rape and assault. Morgue workers say these women did not die peaceful deaths.
SHARI, VOLUNTEER, IDF, MILITARY RABBINATE: Some of the women came in just with underwear. And the underwear was often bloody. Some of them had
underwear on that was very bloody. And that was very difficult to see also.
We also saw most of the people, the women, were shot at least once in the body, but then they were shot in the head. And they were shot in the head
many times. And it often seemed to be gratuitous cruelty, abject cruelty, because it seemed to have been done just to mutilate them. The women we saw
were not just killed. They were cruelly, cruelly mutilated in many parts of their bodies.
TAPPER (voice-over): Women's groups say the humiliation women experienced as they were paraded through the street, thrown on the backs of
motorcycles, and degraded either before or after they were killed at the festival, that also constitutes gender-based violence. Here's what one Nova
Festival organizer told us that he saw.
RAMI SHMUEL, CEO UNITY FESTIVAL ISRAEL: What we found in the area, on the field, outside the safe zone -- there is not a doubt about what our girls
went through -- the terrorists. We found naked women stripped out without any clothes. Their legs were spread out. And some of them were butchered.
TAPPER (voice-over): Israeli police acknowledged that the investigation is likely to take months. Tuesday, police held a press briefing in which one
witness said she saw a gang rape. Quote, they bent someone over, and I understood he was raping her. And then he was passing her on to someone
else. She was alive. She stood on her feet and she was bleeding from her back. I saw that he was pulling her hair. She had long brown hair.
I saw him chop off her breast. And then he was throwing it toward the road, tossed it to someone else, and they started playing with it. I remember
seeing another person raping her. And while he was still inside her, he shot her in the head. Another shocking part of all of this to these women
and investigators -- the absence of international outrage, including a United Nations statement a week after these terrorist attacks that did not
mention these accusations at all, as if the rape of Israeli women does not count as rape.
ELKAYAM-LEVY: It's much worse than just silence or an insult to us as Israeli women and to our children and to our people. It's -- when they are
failing to acknowledge us, to acknowledge what happened here, they are failing humanity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: That was CNN's Jake Tapper with a very powerful report. And we have an additional note on this topic. A prominent Canadian sexual assault
center has fired its director after she signed a letter that said the rape of Israeli women was an unverified accusation. The letter drew sharp
criticism from Jewish organizations who say there is no question that Hamas committed sexual assault on October 7th. We'll be right back with more on
this.
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GOLODRYGA: Time now for The Exchange. My next guest says the failure of the international human rights community to speak out about Hamas' use of rape
and sexual violence against Israeli women is one of the terrible legacies of the October 7th attacks.
Joining me now is Professor Ruth Halperin-Kaddari, she's the founding director of the Rackman Center for the Advancement of the Status of Women
and the former Vice Chair of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women. Professor, thank you so much for joining us.
I'm assuming that you listened to Jake Tapper's powerful piece on this subject matter.
Clearly, it is not getting the attention that it deserves. I just want to recap with our viewers as to the steps that you took in the immediate days
after the October 7th attack, because on October 9th, you wrote a letter to the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women. That is a
U.N. treaty body of which you were a member for 12 years, telling them what happened and begging them to issue a sharp statement condemning the attack.
What was the response you received?
RUTH HALPERIN-KADDARI, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, THE RACKMAN CENTER, BAR-ILAN UNIVERSITY: Sadly, the response was very, very disappointing. I really felt
betrayed and deserted. It took them three weeks to issue, to adopt a statement, but the statement did not even relate to the October 7
atrocities, did not mention Hamas, did not mention anything, just a vague reference to the importance of women being part of peace negotiations and
efforts, the cause of peace is the cause of women.
This is, I felt, not actually -- a denial. What we told them and what we were hoping that they would acknowledge, that they would condemn us, and
that they would really recognize this role of police, not crimes but crimes against humanity, possibly mounting to genocide.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, we are having some technical issues with your connection. So, our apologies to our viewers there if you can't hear exactly what the
professor is saying. But hopefully we can work things out on that front. Let me give you and our viewers read for you the response that we heard
from U.N. women that you just referenced.
One was on October 13th. The other was on October 25th. Let me read the October 13th response. And that is U.N. women issuing a statement saying,
quote, "The situation in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory, U.N. women condemns the attacks on civilians in Israel and the occupied
Palestinian territories and is deeply alarmed by the devastating impact on civilians, including women and children."
Next, October 25th, the U.N. women executive director said every act of violence against women and girls including sexual violence, is
unequivocally condemned, irrespective of the nationality, identity, race or religion of the victims. So, as you noted, no mention of Hamas, no mention
of the violent attacks and crimes they committed against Israeli women.
[12:40:00]
Why would that have been so important for them to have included in their statements? They had two tries.
HALPERIN-KADDARI: They had -- they had more than two tries. They also issued a report on the effect of the war on women and children, but this
report which is being kept to be updated, is only referring to women and children in Gaza. And once -- and not for a moment -- sufferings of women
and children in Gaza of innocent Palestinians.
But there is no equivalence there. The attack on us was targeting specifically women and girls in Israel determined to perform the most
atrocious sexual violence. And the fact that women, just like other U.N. bodies and the whole international human rights community, is not
acknowledging this and not recognizing it, is undermining the whole system -- the whole human rights system.
And I want to recall that after the invasion of Russia into Ukraine, less than a month, U.N. women issued certain concerns about the situation of
women in Ukraine and called for an investigation of the sexual assaults and the rapes and the sexual violence that was committed by the Russian troops
in Ukraine.
GOLODRYGA: I'm so sorry. Our connection really isn't stable. I'm hoping I can at least get one more question in with you. So, bear with me. I'm
curious. You have worked with these groups at the U.N. for over 10 years. What is your explanation for why they have been so recedent to speak out
forcefully on this issue when, as you noted, when it came to other atrocities and war crimes, there was no hesitation, there was no
equivocation.
HALPERIN-KADDARI: I am very sorry and I regret to say that I'm afraid that politics is overcoming the internal alignment for human rights. And it
seems that the age-old U.N. politics and double standard when it comes to Israel, and the fact that this time Israel, which is usually looked at as
the aggressor, has now been the victim and Palestinians were not.
The Palestinian -- Hamas -- who's supposedly representing Palestinians, this spoils the regular matrix of these organizations. And they could never
come this set of things and really do the service that they are there in order to do and to acknowledge and to serve Israeli women and not just
Palestinian women.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, Ruth Halperin-Kaddari, apologies again for the trouble with our connection. I know you have noted in your writing as well as in
other interviews that this isn't to deny any of the suffering at the hands of, you know, in terms of Palestinian women and girls as well.
But it is important to separate this specific act of atrocities committed against Israeli women by Hamas, at the hands of Hamas, on October 7th.
Thank you for your time and for the work that you're doing. We appreciate it.
HALPERIN-KADDARI: Thank you. Thank you for devoting your time to this.
GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us, former U.S. President Jimmy Carter joins a host of people paying generous tributes to his wife of 77 years,
Rosalynn Carter.
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[12:45:00]
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GOLODRYGA: Climate action or greenwashing? It's a common debate as the world aims to reach net zero carbon by 2050. Businesses are investing in
the carbon market to offset their own emissions. But are their efforts actually playing a part in decarbonization? One company thinks that it can
help. CNN's Eleni Giokos takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: The High Fen in Norfolk, England. An area rich in natural beauty. It's a haven for many types of biodiversity. And for this team of
scientists, it's also a test bed for measuring CO2 levels.
ALLISTER FUREY, CO-FOUNDER OF SYLVERA: We quantify very rigorously how much carbon is in the ground here.
GIOKOS: Allister Furey, co-founder and runs Sylvera, a company which examines the amount of carbon captured in vegetation. Using lasers, drones
and artificial intelligence, Silvera claims their technology can be 13 times more accurate than traditional methods.
FUREY: The old way of doing this would be to take a tape measure, but it's not going to capture any of the detail of this tree at all. What we do is
we scan the trees with a laser and we're able to do that at many thousands of trees.
GIOKOS: Once they measure the CO2 levels, Sylvera says it can calculate how much the area is worth in the carbon markets. A trading platform that
allows companies to buy carbon credits in order to offset their own emissions.
FUREY: So, when you're going, this is quite sandy actually, you can see the sand in it.
GIOKOS: Natagal, a wildlife restoration company, is protecting the biome in the High Fen. They receive the income from the credits sold in the carbon
markets. Now, they are directly benefiting from Sylvera's detailed carbon calculator.
FUREY: It's all about getting that quality of data so that what we're selling is real, it's tangible, it's not going to contribute to green moss.
It's real sequestration of biodiversity uplift or whatever the ecosystem service is.
GIOKOS: Sylvera's ambition is to keep scanning for CO2 in different areas across the globe. This year, they will get to showcase their tech at the
world's largest climate event. COP28 will take place in the United Arab Emirates and one of the major talking points will be finance and how to
strengthen the carbon market. It's how companies like Sylvera could make a difference.
FUREY: Someone needs to go do the hard yards in the fields, writing the software code, monitoring every patch of earth on the planet and every
project that exists to give the investors that confidence to buy us out of the situation we find ourselves in.
GIOKOS: The focus on finance can pave the way to less carbon emissions and more commitment to our planet.
[12:50:00]
Eleni Giokos, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Well, there's major drama in the artificial intelligence leader, OpenAI, the makers of ChatGPT. More than 500 employees are calling for the
resignation of the board and are threatening to quit themselves.
This after the CEO and co-founder was fired on Friday only to be taken on by its biggest financial backer, Microsoft, on Monday. OpenAI's board said
that they lost confidence in Sam Altman but offered few details as to why. Now, back in June, Altman gave this view of the company and its board.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAM ALTMAN, THEN-CEO, OPENAI: Like no one person should be trusted here. I don't have super voting shares. Like I don't want them. The board can fire
me. I think that's important. I think the board over time needs to get, like, democratized to all of humanity. If this really works, it's like
quite a powerful technology and you should not trust one company and certainly not one person with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Maybe a bit pressure given what happened over the weekend. So much to unpack here. Anna Stewart is following the twists and turns and
joins me now. So, Anna, first of all, what went on over the weekend? It was shocking enough news that he was ousted with only 30 minutes, I think,
before the news came out publicly, only to have the board then want him back less than 24 hours. And now news that he is going to Microsoft, a
major investor in the company.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: It's a mess, right? This is a big heap of a mess for this company. And this latest news we've had in the last few
hours, this is the open letter to the board, signed by over 500 of OpenAI's employees, including, funny enough, one of the actual board members who was
involved in the firing of Sam Altman, the CEO, also the CTO who took over on an interim basis through this very rocky weekend.
And they are saying to the board that they have lost confidence. In this letter, they say, "you are incapable of overseeing OpenAI. We are unable to
work for people that lack competence, judgment and care for our mission and our employees."
They also say that unless they fire the board members who are currently on the board, reappoint to, or appoint, sorry, to new independent members, and
reinstate Sam Altman and Greg Brockman from Microsoft, they're going to leave or they may resign very, very soon.
That's over 500 employees. I believe this is a company that has around 700 employees, so you do the math. There wouldn't be much left of OpenAI. So,
now, we are in this very bizarre situation of wondering whether Sam Altman and Greg Brockman who have just been hired by Microsoft to set up a new
entity will be coming back to OpenAI and where the board members will be ousted or whether you're going to see an exodus of OpenAI to Microsoft.
And let's all remember that Microsoft is the biggest backer of OpenAI and have poured billions of dollars in a multi-year deal. So, all of this
happening today and over the weekend, it's really hard to keep up. This is moving fast. And I think this might be an example used, frankly, in years
to come in business schools of how not to oust a CEO.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, a group of people so smart in one field can be so clueless given what happened over the weekend in another. But you know, Sam Altman
really became the face of artificial intelligence. We were showing stills of him testifying before Congress on the safety of A.I. and the need
perhaps in the future for it to be regulated.
There seem to be reports coming out of divisions from within the company as to the speed of the development of the technology and the reports are that
Sam wanted to speed things up a bit and some other of his colleagues wanted to slow things down. What does this tell us about the substantive issue of
the future of A.I.?
STEWART: I mean, a speculation over why Sam Altman was ousted by the board on Friday has been rife and actually the board didn't really give much
detail. They said there was a lack of communication with him.
There is, as you say, speculation that Sam Altman, particularly in the interest of commercializing the profit part of OpenAI, which has always
been a non-profit entity, whether that meant rapid development and less of a focus really on safety and as many consider an existential crisis with
artificial general intelligence in the future, risks around misinformation right now.
So, there is that question and I think we have to consider what would happen if we do see a splintering of OpenAI and you have yet another entity
within Microsoft because so far, this has been a space that's been moving very, very rapidly, huge calls for regulation, but only a handful of
companies really holding the power. Perhaps it's splintering, perhaps we'll have another one.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, OpenAI, just another sign of how confusing this all was has already replaced the interim CEO that it appointed over the weekend,
all within a matter of just 48 hours.
[12:55:00]
Anna Stewart, thank you so much for being a voice of sanity here and helping us break this all down. We appreciate it.
Well, tributes today are being paid to the former First Lady of the United States, Rosalynn Carter, who died Sunday at the age of 96. The Carter
Center said she passed away peacefully with her family by her side at her home in Georgia.
Rosalynn Carter had been diagnosed with dementia in May. First Lady Jill Biden praised her predecessor for her advocacy on mental health,
caregiving, and women's rights. While former First Lady Michelle Obama says Rosalynn Carter dedicated her life to lifting up others.
Former President Jimmy Carter, who is receiving hospice care, honored his wife of 77 years. In a statement, the 99-year-old said Rosalynn was his
equal partner in everything they accomplished. Over the years, the couple were often asked to share their thoughts on their enduring marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: How has your long and vibrant marriage enriched your life and work?
ROSALYNN CARTER, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: I don't know. I've been married all of my life, almost and I don't know how it could have been enriched
more if it had not been for Jimmy Carter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Just a beautiful relationship. Our thoughts are with the Carter family today. Well, that does it for this hour of "One World". I'm Bianna
Golodryga. Thank you so much for watching. Amanpour is up next.
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