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One World with Zain Asher
Biden Addresses Nation In wake Of Trump's Victory; Huge Shift In Immigration Policy Expected Under Trump; Trump And Allies Prepare To Retake Power, Implement His Agenda; Many Voters Say Economy Was Top Issue In Election; Trump's Victory Prompts Foreign Policy Questions; Jack Smith In Talks With DOJ To Wind Down Trump Legal Issues. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired November 07, 2024 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:42]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Hello, everyone. Good to be back with you. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching ONE WORLD.
All right. To congratulate and to comfort. That was Joe Biden's task just moments ago as he addressed the American people for the very first time
following Donald Trump's election victory on Tuesday.
GOLODRYGA: The U.S. president spoke in the White House Rose Garden, promising a peaceful and cooperative transition to the incoming Trump
administration. He talked about the accomplishment of his presidency and told Kamala Harris' supporters, they should support the choice made by the
American people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The struggle for the soul of America since our very founding has always been an ongoing debate and still
vital today. I know for some people, it's a time for victory to state the obvious. For others, it's a time of loss. Campaigns are contests of
competing visions. Country chooses one or the other. We accept the choice the country made.
I've said many times, you can't love your country only when you win. You can't love your neighbor only when you agree.
The American experiment endures. We're going to be OK, but we need to stay engaged. We need to keep going. And above all, we need to keep the faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Let's bring in CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz with more.
One of the president's strongest and shortest speeches really reiterating American values, our democratic process, and words that perhaps 10 years
ago, we would have taken for granted as just a common change of administrations really resonated this time around when he said on January
20th, we will have a peaceful transfer of power here. These are just words we can't take for granted anymore going forward.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And President Biden really wanted to use this speech to try to stress that very point, that he
remains committed to ensuring that there is a peaceful transfer of power, something that he and his aides believe he was not afforded by former
President Donald Trump back in 2020 when Trump had put up consistent roadblocks to their transition process and never conceded this election to
President Biden.
But really Biden in this speech was trying to stress that he will aid in that transition process while also trying to bring the country together,
speaking in terms of unity. I thought that the line that really was quite poignant in these remarks where you can't love your country only when you
win. That line is so interesting because it is something that Biden used time and time again as a contrast line to former president -- now
president-elect Trump.
In this instance, he is repurposing it as he's trying to bring the country together in this moment. The president also encouraged his supporters to
stay engaged, saying setbacks are unavoidable, but giving up is unforgivable.
It comes at a time when there's a lot of soul-searching in the Democratic Party about what exactly went wrong for them in this election.
A lot of that blame has been placed directly at President Biden's feet, as many are frustrated with the fact that he decided to even seek a second
term for office at the beginning. And then when he dropped out, really left the democratic nominee with very little time to mount a successful campaign
against former President Donald Trump.
Now, as President Biden spoke in this, the Rose Garden, there were many staff members there. Also cabinet members in the front row. The president
has thanked them for their work saying that their accomplishments in this administration is something that they shouldn't forget that they will have
lasting impact for the country.
But right now, right now, the president really with these remarks trying to stress this theme of unity, but he is also facing the reality that the man
that he beat back in 2020, which was the entire inspiration for his run in that campaign, trying to defeat Trump, trying to defeat Trumpism, is now
preparing to come back here to the White House. And that is something that could be tied to his legacy going forward.
[12:05:07]
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And he may be coming back to the White House physically as soon as next week. We know President Biden spoke with the incoming
president, President Trump yesterday congratulating him. And an invitation was issued to former President Trump for a visit at the White House.
Arlette Saenz at the White House for us today. Thank you.
Well, key Trump allies are jockeying now for positions in the White House and in the Trump administration. We're getting word that Trump could
announce key staff picks within days, including chief of staff, attorney general, and the secretaries of state and defense.
Sources tell CNN that Elon Musk and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. are on the short list for high-level positions.
ASHER: In the meantime, Homeland Security officials are bracing for a huge shift in immigration policy, sources saying that Trump allies -- Trump's
allies have been quietly preparing to detain and deport migrants on a large scale.
CNN spoke to some Trump supporters about what issues should be first on his agenda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On day one, well, we got to close the border.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first thing I wanted to do is pardon every single January 6 protester.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Immigration, trade, and jobs. And endless wars, ending the endless wars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right. Let's bring in CNN's Priscilla Alvarez. So, Priscilla, what do we know about what's at the top of Donald Trump's immigration
agenda, including this idea of arresting, detaining, deporting potentially millions of undocumented immigrants who are already within the United
States? Walk us through that.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, if you remember, previously Donald Trump had focused on the border wall. That was the cornerstone of
his campaign.
Now, over the last several months and years, it has been mass deportation and we're learning more details about what that could look like. Because
over the last several weeks, there have been Trump allies, as well as some in the private sector who have been quietly preparing for the detaining and
deporting of immigrants on a large scale.
Now, the private sector here has evolved because the federal government does lean on contractors to manage these detention centers, and in some
cases, to run them. There are only a few that are actually federally owned facilities.
And in order for this type of plan to come to fruition, the incoming Trump administration would have to identify detention space and very likely have
to build that up quite quickly because after arresting someone, they'd have to detain them to then eventually remove them.
So all of this planning has been quietly happening behind the scenes and now it is expected to ramp up that we have -- now that we have the results
of this election.
Now, of course, in talking to officials, they tell me, it's going to come down to money. Do they have enough funds to pull off something as big as
what they have projected over the last several weeks? That remains a big question.
Because in the past, the Department of Homeland Security has reprogrammed funds. That means moving funds around from different agencies to try to get
the monies that they need. But this kind of operation to do it at such a large scale would have to require far more than just moving money here and
there within the department.
So all of this will have to be sorted over time. And there are still questions as to how quickly they could pull off an operation like this,
because in addition to detention, there's also the deportation aspect, which requires diplomacy with countries because they'd have to receive
those people.
But the other part of this, too, is the Department of Homeland Security, which is charged with immigration enforcement. They have been no strangers
to whiplash on immigration policies. They went through it, most recently with the Trump administration to the Biden administration. And they're
fully expecting that the policies that were put in place under President Joe Biden are going to be reversed under Donald Trump.
So certainly, this has been something that they're grappling with within the department. Some telling me that they have been shell-shocked by the
results, others telling me that they're optimistic about it.
So they are preparing in their own ways for what's to come, knowing of course what Donald Trump has already said on the trail and what he wants to
accomplish when he comes into office.
ASHER: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, live for us there. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And the Capitol members of both parties are mapping out the next Congress.
ASHER: All right. Republicans look to have control of both houses when the next session begins. After gaining the majority in the Senate, they expect
to keep their majority in the House as well. Several senators are hoping their fellow members will elect them majority leader -- will elect a
majority leader next Wednesday.
Meanwhile, Democrats are dealing with their new reality as well.
GOLODRYGA: So let's get some insight into all of the latest political developments. It's a lot to cover. We're joined by CNN political
commentator and democratic strategist Maria Cardona. And CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings, who has worked with President George
W. Bush and Senator Mitch McConnell. Thank you both for joining us.
So, Scott, let me start with you, because I was listening to your comments earlier this morning, and you were stating the obvious, that in this
election, President Trump won a clear mandate. It is likely that he will not only have won the Electoral College, but the popular vote as well, and
very likely that he would sweep all three branches, not just the executive, but the Senate and the House.
[12:10:21]
You went on to say, give him some breathing room when he comes into office with that mandate. What do you think we can expect him to do with that
mandate?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, if he just does what he promised to do during the campaign, he'll be quite popular. I mean,
look, people, I don't think it's any real complex solution about how he won the election.
People feel like they've been crushed for the last few years under inflation, and that was after they felt like they got crushed under COVID.
And they got very unhappy with Joe Biden and Kamala Harris' policies that they believed led them to these negative economic outcomes.
So number one is just get us back to an economy where people feel less anxiety and they're not being crushed.
Number two, I do think he's got to solve immigration. It's obviously a huge problem. Everybody recognize it's a crisis.
Number three, I think the feeling that, you know, there's just too much chaos in the world and doing whatever you can do to try to tamp down the
chaos. You don't always have control over all world events, but, you know, you've got war in Europe. I mean, there's -- you know, you've got North
Korea with troops in Europe. I mean, it's -- we're not talking about it a lot, but it's kind of crazy when you think about it.
We still have American hostages being held in the Middle East. I mean, there's a lot of hot spots and things out there from just a world chaos
perspective that he could work on.
I think if he focuses on those things, the American people are going to be quite happy. And I really, really hope that we don't have two or four years
of Democrats trying to tie him up administratively in the courts or whatever. He deserves a chance to govern. I don't really think he got that
chance four years ago, to be honest with you, in his first term, but I think he deserves it now. It's what the American people are asking for.
ASHER: Maria, so much blame has been leveled at President Biden. We actually just heard from him about half an hour or so ago. I mean,
obviously, he, you know, is trying to unite the country. He's talked about a peaceful transfer of power, but not really addressing, as expected. You
know, we wouldn't expect him to address what went wrong, and he did not.
There's been so much debate about, you know, how much Kamala Harris should have focused on the joy message versus how much she should have continued
to point the finger at Donald Trump as being a threat to democracy. Even some debate about whether or not appearing on Joe Rogan's podcast would
have made a difference.
At the end of the day, they -- at the end of the day, though, how difficult was it always going to be for Kamala Harris to break free from President
Biden's low approval ratings? Walk us through that.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, that, I think, is exactly the question that remains. And, look, it's going to take a while.
We're going to have a lot of introspection. We're going to have a lot of finger pointing. There's no question about that.
But I think you're right. I think it was always going to be very difficult, not just for the VP, but maybe especially for her because she was the VP
alongside Joe Biden. And she was never going to completely distance herself from President Biden in that small time frame, because she would have
gotten backlash from, you know, yet another group within the Democratic Party that she would have had to contend with.
And so I actually am not sure if any Democrat would have been able to survive the clearly indelible imprint that the economy made on voters. And
that was made very clear. You know, Scott's right. There is a mandate for President -- for incoming President Trump, President-elect Trump, but it is
mostly on the economy.
And so what I would say in terms of the expectation, and I think Scott is right, in that Democrats do need to give him an opportunity to govern. And
I -- and I am sure that they will. I certainly am going to give him that opportunity. I'm going to have an open mind. I'm going to hope that he is
going to be a president for all Americans.
But I would be careful, because even in the things that Scott just mentioned that he's going to focus on, immigration, you know, the first
thing that his press secretary tweeted was that he's going to implement mass deportation camps around the country on day one.
That means separating families, that means essentially strangling the economy because so many undocumented workers work in industries that the
country needs in order to survive. So, how is that going to work?
And from an international standpoint, look at the war in Ukraine. A lot of people are concerned that he's just going to hand Ukraine on a silver
platter to Putin. I hope he doesn't do that, but certainly that is something that a lot of people think that's where he's going.
Is he going to implement the tariffs? Economists have said that would mean a huge rise in inflation.
So these are all the things that I think are going to be huge challenges for Donald Trump as he goes in to govern, but I hope that he looks at this
as an opportunity to govern for all Americans. If he does do that, I think you will be pleasantly surprised, Scott, that Democrats will welcome that.
[12:15:15]
But if he doesn't, then Kamala Harris was right. She conceded the election. We all concede this. But we're not going to concede the fight, because way
too many communities today are waking up, and they're terrified, the immigrant community, LGBTQ community, the transgender community, women.
And what I'm telling everyone is, let's take a breath, let's take a beat, let's give him a chance. And hopefully he will, you know, make us all feel
more optimistic about going into four years of a Trump presidency.
GOLODRYGA: Scott, you offered a very thoughtful analysis in, I think, just the moments after it was pretty clear that Trump was going to win the
election early Tuesday, early Wednesday morning, actually. And you called it the revenge of the average American worker.
And in it, you really expressed an indictment of what you described as the political information complex, especially the last few weeks, what you
think that a large part of the media and some of the bigger cities were focused on here in New York and Washington, D.C., and that is damning words
against Puerto Ricans and whether or not Kamala Harris should or shouldn't have distanced herself more from Joe Biden on the view.
My question to you is, looking back now, when do you think that so many of these disillusioned Americans had made up their mind going into this
election?
JENNINGS: Well, my instinct is they had made up their mind long ago. I mean, if you look at the trajectory of Joe Biden's job approval, he went
under 40 percent about August, September of 2021. And he never really came back up. And Kamala Harris was right there with him. Now, she experienced a
bit of a spike in her popularity after she became the nominee of the party.
But I think it was a mirage. I mean, it was a -- it was a mirage created largely by the media to try to prop up a candidacy against the backdrop of
a very, very unhappy American electorate. They were unhappy with what they had gotten.
And I think we just saw night after night after night coverage of the campaign, floating from one gimmick to the next, one outrage to the next.
You know, we knew what we were getting with Trump. Trump is a known quantity. He had been the president. We've been having him dominate our
political life, you know, for almost a decade now.
But we didn't really know what we were going to get from Harris other than, well, she's already working for Joe Biden, which we don't like. And so I
think that people, frankly, were trying to will into an existence, and will into existence the idea that she could somehow be totally divorced from the
negative results that the country thought they were getting from the current administration.
So I really think impressions of what the Democrat program had done to the country had set in very early. She was unable to separate herself from
Biden, and the American people reacted to that. It's on Trump now to try to act on his promises.
And I appreciate my friend Maria's comments about Democrats giving him the space and grace to try to execute on that. She did have a hard job. I fully
acknowledge that. I do think it was ultimately a tactical mistake for her to never really have an answer to the question, what would you do
differently? Do you regret any of the things you've done?
I've said this to politicians for years. Like a little -- an ounce of humility would go a long way for you and your party and for your campaign.
Not very many people can ever do it.
GOLODRYGA: Except we've never seen that from Trump. We have never seen him answer that question.
ASHER: We've always get question to the role.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, I did something wrong, or I would have done it.
JENNINGS: I know. I know. But in this election, he was not the incumbent.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
JENNINGS: She was the incumbent party. And, you know, and she never was able to sort of shake the idea. They tried to argue that we were turning
the page. I was sort of puzzled at that. Turning the page on what? Democrats are in charge. They've been in charge for 12 of the last 16
years. What are we turning the page on here?
GOLODRYGA: Scott, before we go quickly, can I ask you, your name has been rumored floating around as a possible press secretary and a Trump
administration. Have you been approached? Would you take it?
ASHER: Would you tell us?
JENNINGS: My sincerest desire is to keep showing up in these tiny boxes alongside you three lovely ladies. That's all I -- that's all I really
want.
ASHER: Oh, standard diplomatic answer.
JENNINGS: There's someone who contacts me every so often and says, hey, you get to keep working here. It's my hope that I'll run into her in the
hallway as soon as we finish this segment this morning.
CARDONA: You know, if I could just chime in on that, I actually do hope that my dear friend Scott, even though I would miss him dearly here at CNN,
I do hope that he goes into the administration.
Because one of the things that we need desperately are some guardrails and some adults and people with common sense and smarts who understand politics
and the electorate to be whispering in Trump's ear. I think there's going to be a huge dearth of that from the names that we are seeing.
[12:20:03]
And so, Scott, I think they need you. The American people need you over there. But we'll see what happens.
GOLODRYGA: And that's a ringing endorsement.
ASHER: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: Maria Cardona, Scott Jennings, keep us posted --
JENNINGS: Thank you.
CARDONA: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: -- on what happens next with you. Thanks for joining us.
ASHER: All right. Still to come, Donald Trump is visiting, is vowing, rather, to lower inflation dramatically. A lot of economists are saying
that his policies will actually have the opposite effect. We'll take a look for you.
GOLODRYGA: And the president elect is scheduled to be sentenced in New York later this month and he's also facing charges in three other criminal
cases. Remember this? So now what happens?
ASHER: Plus, hear from a number of Trump supporters who are celebrating his election victory and policies as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA STOCKDALE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: The abortion, you know what, it can work on it, you know what I mean? That's not a big deal. I mean, maybe, but not
that much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right. When Donald Trump takes office on January 20th, he will inherit a solid economy, one with historically low unemployment.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And in just a few hours, the U.S. Federal Reserve is expected to cut interest rates again as inflation continues to ease.
Now, despite that, a majority of Americans still hold negative views about the economy because prices remain high.
President-elect Donald Trump is vowing to bring costs down, but a lot of mainstream economists warn that his proposed tax cuts, mass deportations,
and tariffs will actually cause inflation to spike, perhaps even substantially.
ASHER: Julia Chatterley joins us live now.
So, Julia, I mean, that's the thing. That puts the Fed in a bit of a bind, right? They're expected to cut interest rates. But long-term, when you
think about some of Donald Trump's policies, especially tariffs, they are widely considered to be inflationary. So, how does that affect the Fed's
long-term policies going forward?
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: It's going to be a real challenge. Today is all about the do's and don'ts for the Federal Reserve. The do's, they want
to be talking about the fact that they've engineered this so-called soft landing. They've managed to raise interest rates without creating a
recession. Inflation continues to come down. Even if high prices are painful.
What they don't want to be doing, quite frankly, is talking about Donald Trump today. Good luck with that. So, we'll start with the good news. We
are expecting interest rates to come down by a quarter of a percentage point, and that is good news for borrowers.
The challenge then is what the future path of interest rates looks like, as you've pointed out. And that's going to depend, not only on what policies
are actually enacted by the next Trump administration, but also who takes control of the House, remember, because that will add to some of the powers
that they have.
[12:25:04]
Jay Powell is going to do his best to avoid talking about tax cuts, tariffs. He may talk in broader terms. And that's the right thing to do.
They can't act preemptively. They have to wait and see what they're going to get, quite frankly. And that's just going to take some time.
But, guys, what I'm also watching is the rise that we're seeing in longer- term borrowing costs for the U.S. government. Mortgage rates are very sensitive to that versus what the Federal Reserve is doing in cutting
rates. And that's why we have seen mortgage rates rise over the last six weeks or so.
Some part of that is tied to more solid growth. Some part of that is tied to the prospect of higher spending, the prospect of higher inflation. So
we're not seeing it yet, perhaps, in some ways, but this is something that directly impacts consumers. And the prospect of his policies are already
having an effect. And this is important to watch.
GOLODRYGA: Julia, one thing we can probably safely expect to see in another Trump term is continued norm-breaking. The Fed has traditionally been an
independent entity to the ire of many presidents whose whatever decisions made by the Fed may have not aligned with their own interests in governing.
That being said, Donald Trump appointed Jay Powell, but many times criticized him publicly. I remember one time tweeting that he was a greater
enemy of America than even Xi Jinping, I believe, he compared him to.
What do we expect from their relationship in a second term? And do you think that Trump ultimately will keep him on the job when his time expires?
CHATTERLEY: That's what we're now hearing from advisers close to the president. And that may change, but the expectation is he lets Jay Powell
stay on until his term ends in May 2026. Let's call it what it was. It was toxic back in the first Trump administration.
The irony, of course, this time around is that they're aligned. The Federal Reserve is trying to cut rates. We know the former president, president-
elect, likes to see interest rates lower. He likes lower borrowing costs.
The crazy part of this is the policies that he's talked about, the tariffs, the immigration potential restrictions, as you pointed out at the beginning
of this, all inflationary. So, as long as Trump doesn't enact the policies he's promised, they're very much aligned.
The challenge will come, of course. If his policies end up slowing the Federal Reserve down or preventing them cutting rates, ball in the future
president's court. It's going to be interesting.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
ASHER: Good note to end on. Julia Chatterley live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Julia.
Still to come for us, with a Trump administration just weeks away, what will become of the two major wars being fought right now? We'll take a look
after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:49]
ASHER: All right. Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.
Donald Trump's reelection has prompted many questions around the world about his foreign policy.
ASHER: Particularly in the Middle East and Ukraine, where battles, of course, are raging. Israel's war with Hamas and Hezbollah has dragged on
for more than a year now. Donald Trump's tough stance on Iran during his first term has sparked a very real fear that Iran will retaliate again
against Israel.
GOLODRYGA: There's also fear that the Trump administration will scale back U.S. funding for the war in Ukraine. That could make scenes of drone
attacks like this one in Kyiv more frequent.
Ukraine's president sent a message to Donald Trump that it's time for action, not words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We are defending ourselves not against Russian wars, but against Russian attacks. Therefore, we need
sufficient weapons, not supporting talks. Hugs with Putin will not help. Some of leaders have been hugging him for 20 years and things are only
getting worse. He thinks only about worse and will not change. Only pressure can put limits on him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: French President Emmanuel Macron says that Europe can take care of its own with or without American help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): There has been a strategic awakening that we must embrace as Europeans. We cannot entrust
our security to the Americans forever. I believe it's also important to send a message that we are now providers of security solutions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte is expressing hope of a positive relationship between the alliance and Donald Trump, despite a
turbulent past. Rutte is also praising Trump's success and encouraging other NATO member states to step up their defense spending.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: I look forward to sit down with Donald Trump to discuss how we can face these threats collectively, what we need
to do more. And, yes, part of this, and here he's absolutely right, will be that on the European side of NATO, we will have to spend more, do more to
make sure -- make sure that we reach the capability targets.
When he was president, he was the one in NATO who stimulated us to move over the two percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: But Trump, of course, has been critical of NATO for years, accusing member nations of not spending their fair share on defense and even
threatening to pull the U.S. out of the alliance. Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, THEN-U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Number one, NATO is obsolete.
And number two, the people aren't paying their way.
It's obsolete, and we pay too much money.
NATO, we're going to have the people that aren't paying. They're going to start paying.
It's obsolete.
They were getting ripped in NATO.
They don't pay their bills.
They are delinquent.
NATO is obsolete and has to be rejiggered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Let's talk more about this in the exchange. Former Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg, joins us live now from Oslo, Norway.
Mr. Stoltenberg, thank you so much for being with us. So, obviously, we roll the sound there of Donald Trump repeating many times when he was
running for office and actually during his presidency several years ago that NATO is obsolete, that member nations aren't paying their fair share.
I do want to start by talking about Ukraine and what Donald Trump has said he's going to do this time around, if he wins, and, of course, he did. He
said that he would end the war in Ukraine within 24 hours, obviously. He didn't mention how.
He also said that Zelenskyy should never have let the war start in the first place and dubbed Zelenskyy one of the greatest salesman he had ever
seen who gets $100 billion on every visit to Congress.
Of course, Zelenskyy is concerned about what a Trump administration is going to mean for the war going forward. What concerns you the most, Mr.
Stoltenberg?
JENS STOLTENBERG, FORMER SECRETARY GENERAL OF NATO: I expect the United States to continue to support Ukraine because if we allow President Putin
to win, it will demonstrate weakness from the West, from the United States, from NATO.
And that will be a win, not only for President Putin, but also from -- for China, for Iran and North Korea because we have to see what's happening in
Ukraine today. It's -- these countries which are now supporting in different ways, Russia's war of aggression.
[12:35:11]
And I also remember that actually when President Trump was president the first time, and I worked with him as Secretary General of NATO, there are -
- the many questions were asked also back then, but the reality was that actually the United States stepped up the support for Ukraine, and
President Putin decided to start to deliver lethal weapons, not least the Javelins, the anti-tank weapons, to Ukraine, and they made a big
difference, those weapons, when the full-scale invasion happened. So I expect the United States to continue to support Ukraine.
GOLODRYGA: Mr. Stoltenberg, if I could go back to the comments we just heard from President Zelenskyy today in his address to European leaders,
specifically when he said hugs with Putin won't work. Some of you have been hugging him for 20 years and that things are only getting worse. Only
pressure can put limits on him.
You did spend quite a bit of time with President Trump. Did you ever, in your experience with him, see him put pressure on Vladimir Putin?
STOLTENBERG: Well, as I just mentioned, it was a big discussion back then whether NATO and NATO allies and the United States should deliver a little
support to Ukraine. Russia had annexed Crimea back in 2014. They had gone into Eastern Donbas in 2014. And there was a war going on, a much smaller,
not a large-scale war we see today, but it was an ongoing war.
And then it was under the Trump administration that the decision was taken to start to deliver lethal weapons, and in particular, the anti-tank
weapons that were so critical at the beginning of the full-scale invasion back in 2022.
But the main message is that we all want the war to end. But we know that the quickest way to end the war is to lose the war. And that will not bring
peace. That will bring occupation.
So if we want a solution where Ukraine prevails as a sovereign independent nation, then we need to strengthen their position on the battlefield so
they can get a stronger position on the negotiating table, so there can be a lasting just solution to the war in Ukraine.
ASHER: Yes. I mean, you mentioned in your first answer, Mr. Stoltenberg, that you expect, hope or expect that U.S. support for Ukraine will
continue. I mean, obviously, Donald Trump, as I mentioned, had said that he would end the war very quickly. I mean, who knows exactly how, but it
certainly doesn't bode well for Ukraine.
My question to you is, how much has and should Europe be taking more responsibility for its own defense, just in terms of increasing its own
defense spending? Give us your take on that, especially with the words that we rolled from Emmanuel Macron just moments before we came to you.
STOLTENBERG: Europeans should do more for their own security because they have done too little for too many years. But that should not be an
alternative to NATO. It should be something that happens inside NATO.
And the good news is that actually that is exactly what European allies have done over the last years. We made a commitment back in 2014 to
increase defense spending to two percent of GDP across the alliance. At that time, only three allies spent two percent of GDP on defense. Now, this
year, it's 24 allies spending two percent of GDP on defense.
So this has really changed and it demonstrates that European allies are stepping up, but not outside NATO, not instead of the security cooperation
with the United States, but as part of strengthening NATO.
GOLODRYGA: Mr. Stoltenberg, we've spent quite a bit of time talking about how, during the campaign, President Trump has long said that he could bring
this war to an end and bring both sides to a negotiating table rather quickly. He hasn't presented a specific plan.
But "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting that one idea, among his team, is that Ukraine would agree not to join NATO for at least 20 years. In
exchange, the U.S. would continue to give Ukraine weapons to defend itself, and that both sides would agree to about an 800-mile border DM,
demilitarization zone, essentially freezing the conflict where it is now.
You know that President Zelenskyy has prioritized joining NATO sooner rather than later as part of his victory plan.
[12:40:00]
Is this an idea that I just mentioned to you, is that something that you would support?
STOLTENBERG: Well, I think the most important thing is that it's for the Ukrainians and only the Ukrainians to decide what are acceptable solutions
for their security and for how to end the war.
I don't think we can change Putin's mind. I believe that Putin still has the ambition of controlling the whole of Ukraine. He tried to take Kyiv in
the beginning of the war. He wants to control the whole of Ukraine.
But I do believe that we can change its calculus. That he realizes that the price he has to pay for that on the battlefield is so high that it needs to
accept a solution where Ukraine continues to be an independent sovereign nation in Europe.
And to make sure that the price is so high, we need to continue to support Ukraine with arms, with weapons, because that's the only way they can have
a position around the negotiating table that enables them to get a solution which is acceptable.
So what happens around the negotiating table is inextricably linked to the strength on the battlefield. So if you want a fair, negotiated, peaceful
solution to this war, the way to achieve that is military support to Ukraine.
ASHER: Mr. Stoltenberg, Trump is, of course, going to be entering the White House at a really difficult and perilous time for Ukraine since the start
of the war. Several analysis of the frontlines show that Ukraine has lost ground at an almost unprecedented rates, especially in October.
How do you think Vladimir Putin -- I mean the only thing that the Kremlin has really said, the main thing the Kremlin has said I should say, is this
idea that the relations between the U.S. and Russia couldn't be any worse than they are currently under Biden.
How do you think that President Putin might take advantage of Trump's return to the White House?
STOLTENBERG: Well, I think it's important that we all convey that we will continue to support Ukraine and to ensure that. NATO Allies made an
important decision at the NATO Summit in Washington this summer. That was to set up a NATO command for Ukraine to ensure that we have a stronger
framework to coordinate and to ensure continued support to Ukraine.
Second, I think we need to realize that -- well, the situation on the battlefield is difficult, but President Putin has not achieved what he
wanted when he started the war.
When the war started, most experts and also Putin believed that he was able to take Kyiv within days and Ukraine within weeks. That didn't happen.
What we have seen is that Ukrainians have liberated half of the territory that Russia controlled at the beginning of the war. And Putin wanted to
ensure that those less NATO along his borders. He wanted NATO to guarantee no new NATO allies.
He has got the opposite. More NATO military presence in eastern part of the alliance and two new members, Finland and Sweden, and Ukraine is closer to
NATO membership than ever before.
So Putin has not achieved what he wanted. Yes, there is a -- there is a hard situation, difficult situation along the frontlines, but the
Ukrainians have proven commitment, courage, and with our support, actually, been able to liberate half of the territory that the Russia controlled at
the beginning of the war.
ASHER: Yes. Ukraine certainly has defied expectations. You know, a good reminder from you about what people were expecting at the start of the war,
but that success has largely been in part, thanks to American military help.
Mr. Jens Stoltenberg, former Secretary General of NATO, thank you so much for joining us on this program.
All right. Still to come here, a few months ago, Donald Trump was convicted of 34 felonies and he's being prosecuted in three more criminal cases. What
will happen to all the legal problems the president-elect faces? We'll take a look after the break.
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[12:45:53]
GOLODRYGA: Well, less than three weeks from now, the new U.S. president- elect is set to be sentenced in a New York courtroom. You can't make this up.
ASHER: Donald Trump was convicted of 34 felony counts for falsifying business records, but his legal team now wants the judge to cancel the
sentencing.
Trump is also facing charges in three other state and federal cases as well. But Special Counsel Jack Smith is in talks with the Department of
Justice leaders to wind down the two federal cases against him.
CNN's Zach Cohen joins us now from Washington. So walk us through how this will actually play out, Zach.
ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, guys, this is the first time a criminal defendant has ever been elected to be U.S. president. So
Donald Trump once again finds himself in a very unique legal situation.
But look, this election outcome is going to most directly impact those two federal cases. Of course, there's the one that deals with his alleged
efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss, and then there's the other dealing with his handling of classified material.
Donald Trump has said repeatedly that he would dismiss both these cases or have these cases dismissed if he was elected in 2024. He's also said that
he would fire Jack Smith in two seconds.
But we're learning that that might not be necessary. As you mentioned, Special Counsel Jack Smith, who oversees both those cases and the Justice
Department, are engaged in talks about how to wind down both those cases before Inauguration Day.
That would -- it remains unclear exactly how that process will play out, but it is clear that Jack Smith is trying to bring those cases to a close
before Donald Trump takes the White House.
And look, we -- the one question is, will Jack Smith put out a report of such that is part of the federal statute that oversees the special counsel?
So we will have to see what that report says.
And then there's the criminal case in Georgia that also deals with Trump's efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss there. That case has been on
hold for several months now. Fulton County DA Fani Willis, who's the prosecutor overseeing that case, she is still at risk of being
disqualified. That's something that would effectively end the Georgia criminal case against Donald Trump.
And if she's allowed to remain on the case, whether or not she can continue to prosecute Donald Trump remains an open question, but sources have
bespoken to say that state-level judge is unlikely to allow her to continue moving forward while Donald Trump is in the presidency. So that would mean
at best the case would be on hold until at least 2029.
And then there's the hush money case in New York that you mentioned. Donald Trump was scheduled to be sentenced for those 34 felony counts later this
month, but Trump's legal team is doing everything it can to try to make sure that doesn't happen. We expect them to file some sort of a motion
arguing that a president-elect cannot be sentenced, and so that legal issue will have to get sorted out as well.
But at the end of the day, all of this really underscores how Trump's strategy of delay, delay, delay has largely been successful.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Zachary Cohen in Washington for us, thank you so much.
ASHER: All right. Still to come, we are following voter reaction from numerous perspectives to Donald Trump's election victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANNY OROZCO, HARRIS SUPPORTER: Everyone here in this country who just wanted to turn the page on that ugliness and that divisiveness. I feel so
sorry for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:28]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHANTING "USA")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right. You are looking at college students at Auburn University in Alabama, celebrating Donald Trump's presidential election victory. They
even took the time to blanket this section, excuse me, of Auburn's campus with toilet paper, a tradition normally reserved for the school's football
wins.
GOLODRYGA: And the thrill of victory for those Trump supporters also meant the agony of defeat for Harris voters. Here are some responses CNN heard
from across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA LLAMAR, LATINOS FOR TRUMP: I went to bed at two o'clock in the morning, 2.30 in the morning, when Trump spoke and brought out his family.
And it was just, wow. And that was my first post that I did. OK. Thank you, Lord. Now, it's official.
Just to see the turnaround and I still can't stop watching all the polls, everything. He won the popular vote. He won everything. He said it, he was
going to do it, and he did it.
STOCKDALE: Right now, I'm happy that he's back, you know, so we can get in, you know, things going. Right now everything is really bad, the economy and
all this stuff. The abortion, you know what, it can be work on it. You know what I mean? That's not a big deal. I mean, it may be, but not that much of
a big deal.
Right now, it's just the economy. Get people working, spending money. They don't want to spend anything. Everything is expensive.
JESS HAGGE, MEMBER OF LGBTQ COMMUNITY: I woke up this morning and I thought that somebody I know is probably going to die over the next four years. And
whether it has to do with the lack of healthcare that they're receiving, both physical and mental, whether it has to do with the increase of hate
crimes against the LGBT community, that we're going to see it's just -- it's a really sobering thought to think that everyone in the queer
community knows somebody who might not make it out alive and I don't. I'm sorry. It's a -- it's a scary thing to think about.
OROZCO: The millions of people who will suffer, directly and indirectly, because of his policy decisions or lack of policy decisions. Here in the
United States and around the world, you know, this morning I was just thinking about the soldiers in Ukraine, you know, how they must be feeling
that there's a good chance now they may lose this war without the support of America. That their sovereign nation might be overtaken by a dictator
next door and who knows what happens after that, you know.
[12:55:13]
And just, you know, everyone here in this country who just wanted to turn the page on that ugliness and that divisiveness, I feel so sorry for us as
a country. It's heartbreaking, but, you know, I hope America endures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: And that itself is democracy.
ASHER: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: People speaking, those who supported Donald Trump, those who supported Kamala Harris, and both expressing their views and their results.
ASHER: Very strong opinions on both sides --
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
ASHER: -- of the political spectrum there.
GOLODRYGA: Well, that does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. Appreciate you watching. "AMANPOUR" is up next. You're watching CNN.
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