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One World with Zain Asher
Authorities Recover Second Black Box From Azerbaijan Jet; Questions Mount Over Cause Of Azerbaijani Jet Crash; Secret Factory Helps Russia Ramp Up Drone Attacks; Parliament Votes To Impeach Acting President; Storms, Winter Weather Impact Travel Plans In U.S.; Stowaway Caught Before Takeoff On Hawaii-Bound Delta Flight; Hanukkah Started On Christmas Day In Rare Occurrence; Birth Mom And Daughter's Emotional Reunion, One Year On; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired December 27, 2024 - 12:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:23]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: External interference. That's what investigators say caused the Christmas Day crash of an Azerbaijan Airlines
plane. ONE WORLD starts right now.
We'll hear from a survivor who describes the moment of impact.
Also ahead, no boarding pass? Apparently no problem. For the second time in less than a month, a passenger stowed away on a Delta flight. Seriously,
how does this keep happening? We'll discuss ahead.
And later, over 50 years in the making, a birth mother and daughter spend the holidays together.
Hello everyone, live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You are watching ONE WORLD.
The official reason is still unknown and an investigation is underway. But speculation is starting to emerge as to what may have caused the plane
crash in Kazakhstan on Christmas Day that killed dozens of people.
Azerbaijan Airlines says early findings indicate the disaster occurred after physical and technical external interference. Separately, a U.S.
official told CNN the science point to Russian anti-aircraft defense is shooting down the plane, possibly in a case of mistaken identity.
Authorities have recovered both flight recorders at the crash site. And survivors and coffins have begun arriving in Azerbaijan's capital, Baku.
This new video shows passengers praying just moments before the crash.
And here's how one survivor described the terrifying experience afterwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUBHONKUL RAKHIMOV, PLANE CRASH SURVIVOR (through translator): I was conscious when I felt the impact. I was thrown up, hit down, thrown up
again. I was strapped in. I was being thrown back and forth. It all lasted a few seconds. And then everything went quiet and silence. Everything was
quiet, calm. And I realized that was it. We had landed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Unbelievable. CNN's Nada Bashir joins me now live in London.
And, Nada, I believe it was that surviving passenger's video that I had actually seen online that he had taken as the plane was descending. Just
stunning and so grateful that so many passengers were able to survive.
We now know that both black boxes from the plane have been recovered. How long of an investigation will it be until we know what the black box
unveils?
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are a lot of pieces being analyzed when it comes to putting this puzzle together. The two black boxes
will be a crucial part of that investigation. But analyzing the flight data and potentially also the cockpit recordings may take around two weeks,
according to authorities in Kazakhstan.
But again, this is one element of the investigation. There are other bits of evidence that are being analyzed and examined. And we know that the
Kazakh government has set up a commission, an international commission that will be focusing on that investigation in order to ask him what exactly led
to this crash.
And there has been a lot of speculation around what led to this. Earlier, just shortly, after in fact the crash took place, we'd heard from Russian
aviation authorities which suggested that the crash may have been caused by a collision with a flock of birds. We've also heard, of course, reports
that the flight was rerouted potentially due to weather conditions.
But, of course, there were also concerns around nearby drone activity that crash occurred shortly after a drone strike in Southern Russia and there
have been questions as to why commercial flights were able to fly in this airspace given the proximity of this drone activity.
But as you mentioned, Bianna, we have been hearing from one U.S. official who has said that it may well have been a Russian anti-aircraft system
which downed this plane, possibly due to mistaken identity because of that nearby drone activity.
And again, those reports were also mirrored by Reuters, who had spoken to multiple unnamed sources familiar with those ongoing investigations, who
again said that this may have well been caused by Russian air defense system. So that will be a key line of inquiry for investigators as they
look through all of the evidence.
Of course, we have seen those images and videos emerging of the wreckage and the aftermath of that crash, the fuselage showing holes and
perforations in parts of the wreckage, perhaps resembling that we might see with shrapnel impacts as well. So that will be a key question for
investigators.
Again, it is remarkable that we have seen survivors emerging from this crash. Twenty-nine people survived out of 67 people on board. Those videos
that we have seen of those final moments of the crash and in the aftermath will also play a part in that investigation.
[12:05:10]
We've been hearing as you mentioned from some of those on board who did survive describing a loud bang being heard, a sort of impact being heard on
the aircraft.
So again, I'm sure investigators will be looking to speak to survivors as well, but a lot of questions still up in the air. We are still waiting for
that final confirmation as to what led to this crash from the Kazakh Commission, which has been set up to investigate this incident. Bianna?
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And just quite stunning, as you note, that there are survivors, miraculous survivors from this crash, and also the fact that
this plane likely was traveling for over 70 minutes in distress over the Caspian Sea, making its way back from Russia circuitously, really, going
back to Kazakhstan there to land.
Talk about the significance of that and that element of the investigation to why the plane chose to go back to -- or chose to go to Kazakhstan,
initially.
BASHIR: Well, yes, there have been questions around the route and the deviation, of course, of the plane. It had essentially been traveling
towards Grozny the capital of the Chechnya Region of Russia. That was its planned route and had to divert.
Now we've been hearing from Russian authorities and aviation officials who have said that there were some concerns around drone activity in the that
the pilot had been offered a number of other airport options for landing but had chosen instead to reroute and divert to Aktau, the Kazakh city of
Aktau, in an attempt to make an emergency landing there.
But there are questions as to what exactly led to that, whether or not perhaps there was a loss in system controls onboard the flight. Some of the
video emerging appears to show the planes circling the airfield somewhat erratically. So that has raised questions as to why that took place.
Perhaps a loss of controls and communications on that from. But again, no clear confirmation just yet from officials.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Data received for the plane showed its vertical speed oscillated more than 100 times during the frightful 74 minutes prior to the
crash.
Nada Bashir, thank you so much. Let's go to Matt Borie. He's the Chief Intelligence Officer at Osprey Flight Solutions, a company that analyzes
security risks in the aviation sector. He joins me now by phone.
Matt, thank you so much for taking the time right now. You have been one of those experts who early on in the -- in this investigation, raise the
possibility that it actually could be an air defense system, a Russian air defense system that brought down this plane.
In Azerbaijan right now, we know investigators believe that a Russian Pantsir S-1 air defense system is the cause here that damaged the plane, is
the culprit. You suggest it's a different air defense system perhaps, such as an SA-22 conventional SAM system.
How do you reach that conclusion? And what's the difference between the two?
MATT BORIE, CHIEF INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, OSPREY FLIGHT SOLUTIONS (through telephone): So this is a technical question. Apologies. The Pantsir S-1 is
the Russian designator for --
GOLODRYGA: OK.
BORIE: -- the SA-22, which is the NATO designator.
GOLODRYGA: OK.
BORIE: So they're the same systems. It's just easier from an English language perspective to use the SA designation rather than using the
Russian designator ground. So they're the same system.
GOLODRYGA: Understood. So you're on the same page then with investigators right now in Azerbaijan in terms of their early investigation into the
cause of this crash.
What led you to believe that in the early hours after the crash?
BORIE: So the first indications that we had that something was amiss was not necessarily that the plane had crashed. Osprey had already been
monitoring the drone attacks launched by Ukraine into the North Caucasus Federal District, including at Chechnya. There were also drone attacks in
other parts of Western Russia in the Tambov region. And there was an airport in Kazan, which again is in Western Russia, that closed due to that
briefly on the morning of the 25th.
So we were already aware that Ukrainian drones and Russian air defense activity had been taking place in parts of Western Russia to include the
North Caucasus Federal District.
Once we saw the plane crash being reported in Aktau and that it had diverted from Grozny, we began -- we began to dig into information on
images and videos from the crash site. And that's when we recognized pretty obvious signs of shrapnel damage to the tail section, the vertical
stabilizer, the horizontal stabilizer, video from inside the cabin taken by passengers, again showing shrapnel damage on the inside of the aircraft.
And so combining the images and videos of the damage inside and out of the aircraft, coupled with the fact that we knew that there was Russian drone
or Russian air defense activity responding to Ukrainian drone attack, led us to point to that being a possible scenario early on the 25th.
[12:10:09]
Now, by later on the 25th, Ukraine officially, through one of its defense officials, blamed Russia for the shoot-down of the aircraft. We then raised
our assessment to say that it was likely that this was shot down by a Russian surface-to-air missile. And then now the subsequent information
that continues to pour out points further and further to that being the most likely cause of this tragic event.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we should note that Moscow is now advising everyone investigating this to wait until the investigation plays out. But we should
also note that in the early hours after this crash, Moscow and it was Russia that was quick to come out and blame it likely on weather or a flock
of birds.
In terms of why the plane ultimately diverted to Kazakhstan, that does seem to remain a mystery. It is interesting that the head of Russia's aviation
watchdog said, quote, the pilot was offered other airports, but he decided to fly to Aktau. They said the plane had made two failed attempts to land
in Grozny. Is that a credible explanation in your view?
BORIE: So there's conflicting reporting. We have the official statement from the head of the Russian Federal Air Transport Agency that you noted
saying that they were offered different airports to land at in Russia, I believe four of them, and the pilot allegedly refused.
However, it's being reported in the Azeri media, again, quoting Azerbaijani, the officials involved in the investigation, that the pilot
was not given suitable alternate divert areas.
Plus, there was still Russian air defense and drone activity potentially going on over the North Caucasus Federal District. So Russia may not have
provided divert options that were suitable under the circumstances, which led the pilot to make a decision to divert to act out.
So more information needs to come out from that. The flight data recorder and any of the communications from the pilot will be critical in
establishing after the explosion outside of the aircraft that led to the damage, what steps did the pilot and air traffic controllers take to try to
deal with the situation that it developed?
It's difficult to say without actually having access to the cockpit voice data and the actual kinematics of the aircraft during its flight.
Since the aircraft was experiencing GPS jamming, we don't have a lot of ADS-B data publicly available. That is -- that is very useful to analyze
this. And since Russian authorities are very quick to lay blame on things other than a shoot-down at this point, i.e. weather, birds, or the pilot
making a choice to divert to Aktau.
We may not get the Russian air traffic controller communications anytime soon.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, yes. That's what I was going to ask. And Russia still has yet to admit any role it played in the downing of commercial flight MH17 10
years ago or so. This is a three-way investigation, I believe, now between Russia, Kazakhstan, and Azerbaijan. The black boxes have been recovered.
What is the likelihood that we will ultimately get a definitive answer as to what caused this plane crash?
BORIE: We're looking at weeks and potentially months or longer before we get a definitive answer. However, there's very strong evidence that the
Azeris believe that something sinister occurred here as Azerbaijan Airlines has canceled flights to a number of airports in Russia in wake of this and
has issued a statement saying the preliminary findings are external physical interference and technical interference, i.e. some form of
explosion causing the damage and then the technical interference being the GPS interference.
If this were birds or weather, why would -- why would Azeri Airlines be canceling flights across Russia? Why would EL AL Airlines be canceling
flights to Moscow? Why would Kazakh Airways be canceling flights to Yekaterinburg?
The questions that need to be answered by the authorities are unlikely to be done in a timely fashion. And operators are now acting with the best
information they have at present, which is that this was another misidentification and shoot-down in a region that's experienced three of
these since 2001.
GOLODRYGA: And it does raise the question of whether commercial air travel is safe there, given that Russia is in a state of war right now as well.
You mentioned the other airlines that have cancelled their travel at this point. Yes.
BORIE: So Russia has closed -- Russia has closed the significant portion of its airspace along the Ukrainian border. It's led to the airports in Rostov
and Krasnodar and Voronezh and Belgorod to have to cease operations. These are relatively large Russian cities, especially Krasnodar and Rostov.
[12:15:05]
So the Russian authorities have been well aware that they need to de- conflict military operations from civilian air traffic, which is why they closed such a wide swath of airspace along their border with Ukraine.
However, that closure area doesn't extend as deep into Russia as Ukraine is now conducting strikes with drones and shoot-downs are happening. Osprey
issued over 200 alerts since September of 2022 --
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
BORIE: -- on Ukrainian drone attacks over 300 kilometers inside of Russia, including three alerts since late November on the North Caucasus Federal
District, including Grozny about drone attacks and shoot-downs taking place.
So effectively, the writing was on the wall for not just attacks from drones and air defense activation in response, but also if the Russian
regulators fail to manage the airspace and properly de-conflict a hazardous event could occur in a tragic outcome like this was always a scenario that
Osprey was monitoring closely.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And as you said, the writing was indeed on the wall.
Matt Borie, thank you so much for your expertise and analysis. We appreciate it.
Well, NATO says that it's boosting its patrol in the Baltic Sea after the suspected sabotage of five undersea cables. And NATO member, Estonia, has
now launched a naval operation to guard a power cable that is still operational.
That's after Finland seized a ship carrying Russian oil on suspicion that it damaged a power cable linking Finland with Estonia. The Kremlin says the
seizure was of little concern. Finland's president says his country is working to find out what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER STUBB, FINNISH PRESIDENT: We've got the situation under control and we have to continue work together, vigilantly, to make sure that our
critical infrastructure is not damaged by outsiders.
It's too soon to draw conclusions yet why this happened. We know who did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: In Ukraine, Russia is ramping up its drone offensive, terrorizing Ukrainian cities on an almost daily basis.
Ukrainian troops try to shoot then down armed only with Soviet-era machine guns. Our Clare Sebastian has more on the new details about the increased
production of those drones at a plant in Southern Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The caption, my mom's reaction when she found out I earned more than her, cat videos TikTok memes
all part of a recruitment effort funneling workers into Russia's ever expanding drone program.
The videos are made by Alabuga Polytechnic, a technical college based in at the Alabuga Special Economic Zone in southern Russia, the same site
identified by the White House last year as Russia's domestic Shahed factory producing Iranian-designed drones.
In February, the U.S. slapped sanctions on Alabuga, noting it exploited underage students from an affiliated polytechnic university as laborers to
assemble these attack UAVs.
David Albright, a former nuclear weapons inspector, has been tracking Alabuga since 2022.
DAVID ALBRIGHT, INSTITUTE FOR SCIENCE AND INTERNATIONAL SECURITY: The only benefit is the high salary, but the males get exemption from military
service. And so that -- that's a drawing card.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): A Ukrainian intelligence officer only authorized to speak to CNN anonymously told us those perks come at a cost.
OREST, UKRANIAN DEFENCE INTELLIGENCE OFFICE (through translator): All students involved in the production of these UAVs live at a separate
limited access compound. Once employed, they sign NDAs. Their contracts say they produce motorboats.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): And yet, as recruitment efforts step up, this video from July allowed the facade to slip.
Thinking of starting 10th grade, says the voice-over, join the super elite program, air navigation and drone programming at Alabuga Polytechnic and
help the Stalin's Falcons, That's a new drone unit in the Russian military.
Pause here and you see the distinctive serial number of the Russian produced Shahed and the unit emblem.
In July, Russia fired 422 Shahed or similar drones at Ukraine. By November, it was almost six times that. Analysis of Air Force reports and official
data show.
To meet that demand, Shahed production at Alabuga has more than doubled this year, say CNN sources in Ukraine's Defense Intelligence. And there's a
new product.
This is the Gerbera, a much cheaper copy of the Shahed pictured in a video posted in July by the Stalin's Falcons, that same drone unit.
For this volunteer air defense unit in Kyiv, it's clear the cheaper copies are fueling bigger attacks.
YURLY CHUMAK, UKRAINIAN AIR DEFENSE VOLUNTEER: Now they send Russia sends every day a lot of drones. More of them are not even with the explosive
things. It's just very cheap and very simple drones.
[12:20:06]
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): For Yurly Chumak, a serving Supreme Court judge by day, there's no denying the decoys are working.
CHUMAK: We cannot detect what it is. You just see that it's drones so you shall use missile or you shall use machine gun to shut down it.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): CNN's sources in Ukrainian defense intelligence believe Alabuga will produce up to 10,000 Gerberas this year alone.
Analysis of downed drones shows Russia has also adapted the original Shahed, making it tougher, more weatherproof, and in some cases, deadlier.
In late October, experts in Kyiv found traces of thermobaric munitions on downed Shaheds.
OLEKSIY STEPANIUK, KYIV SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF FORENSIC EXPERT (voice-over): There were several of them. Their effect is that they're used
as incendiary munitions. In a certain radius, they disable all equipment and people.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Ukraine has tried hitting back. This April strike, using a modified small aircraft, blew a hole in the roof of a worker
dormitory at Alabuga.
SEBASTIAN: But neither that strike, no international sanctions could stop the breakneck pace of expansion here.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Between March and September this year, two entirely new buildings appeared next to the original ones.
And this image from late November seems to confirm they're connected. New covered walkways link old and new buildings. Another looks set to join the
factory to the worker dormitories now fully repaired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They started to create, we thought, drone cages over the buildings. And then as they build other buildings, it looks like they're
expanding the security perimeter.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): NATO told CNN it is, quote, well aware of Alabuga and expects it to ramp up production even further.
This military patriotic team-building event for Alabuga students, a glimpse into the high-octane world behind that security fence.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SEBASTIAN: Well, Bianna, CNN has reached out to both the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Alabuga Special Economic Zone for comment. We've not
heard back from either.
But I think the other really important point to emphasize here is that this is now an international effort, much like the war itself Russia is bringing
in its allies. Obviously, this factory started as a partnership with Iran to produce those Iranian-designed Shahed's.
Now CNN sources and Ukrainian defense intelligence tell us that Chinese involvement is also growing. That Gerbera decoy drone believed to be built
using a Chinese prototype. China though telling CNN that it strictly controls any exports of dual use goods.
GOLODRYGA: Clare Sebastian, fascinating piece. Thank you so much.
Still to come for us, another impeachment in South Korea. Why parliament is rebelling against the office of the president.
Plus, concern is growing over bird flu spreading to other animals. And now there's fear of easier transmission to humans. We'll explain how a little
later.
Plus, Christmas and the first night of Hanukkah both happened on Wednesday. That is the first time since 2005. We'll take a look at this unusual
convergence of holidays.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:25:53]
GOLODRYGA: With protesters making their voices heard outside, South Korea's parliament on Friday voted to impeach the acting president, Han Duck-soo.
The vote came less than two weeks after lawmakers impeached the previous president over his decision to order martial law.
CNN's Hanako Montgomery has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the latest development in what's been a very dramatic political saga in South Korea. This is the
first time in the country's history that an acting president has been voted to be impeached. And it comes less than two weeks after the actual
president, President Yoon Suk Yeol, was also voted to be impeached.
So, what we're talking about here is two impeachment votes in less than two weeks. I mean, this is unprecedented, not only in South Korea, but also for
much of the democratic world.
Now, there are many reasons why the acting president Han Duck-soo, was voted to be impeached today by the country's parliament. But what really
stands out is a statement made by the main opposition party leader. Give this a listen.
LEE JAE-MYUNG, SOUTH KOREAN OPPOSITION LEADER (through translator): We will remove Yoon Suk Yeol from office, uproot his loyalist forces, and fully
suppress the insurrection.
Until that moment, we will pool all our resources and fulfill our historic responsibility.
MONTGOMERY: Now for some background on the events that led to today's vote. On December 3, South Korea was plunged into political turmoil after the
country's president declared martial law. Then less than two weeks after that, the country's parliament decided to vote to impeach the president and
stripped him of his duties.
But in order for the formal impeachment process to conclude, a constitutional court ruling upholding that impeachment vote is necessary.
But critically, and here's the problem right now. South Korea's Constitutional Court doesn't have enough judges to issue such a ruling.
And it's actually the job or the responsibility of the acting president, Han, to fill those remaining spots, fill those vacancies on the country's
bench. But so far, he's refused to do so, leading to this political deadlock we're seeing right now.
Now, looking ahead, next in line to serve as the acting president is the country's finance minister. But South Korea is still far from politically
stable. In fact, this turmoil, this political game of musical chairs, if you will, is coming at a very critical time for South Korea.
It's preparing for a new Trump administration. and the political instability that South Korea's seeing within its leadership is raising some
questions and concerns about how well it can engage in diplomacy and maintain stable U.S.-South Korean ties.
And the question that still remains to be answered is, how much longer will this political instability in South Korea last? And that's anybody's guess.
Hanako Montgomery, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Still to come for us, one of the biggest travel weekends of the year could be extra difficult. A look at how winter storms are impacting
the roads and airports, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:04]
GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to ONE WORLD, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
In Seattle, an attempt to get a free flight to Hawaii was thwarted by police. Delta Airlines tell CNN someone managed to sneak on to a Honolulu
bound flight on Christmas Eve.
Now, luckily, the stowaway was discovered before the plane took off when everyone was ordered off the plane. The suspect ran and hid in an airport
restroom but was found and later arrested.
You'll recall last month a woman managed to make it from New York to Paris by sneaking onto a Delta flight.
This as millions of Americans are hitting the roads or airports on one of the busiest travel weekends of the year. And in many parts of the country,
snow and rain are making the trip extra treacherous. Rain, hail, and even tornadoes are forecast in parts of the south, while the West Coast is
dealing with winter storms, some of which could bring more than a foot of snow to higher elevations.
The TSA says about 40 million passengers will be screened at airports across the country this holiday season.
CNN's Carlos Suarez is at the nation's busiest airport in Atlanta. I don't want to jump to conclusions. Things look pretty smooth there behind you.
Not too many people. What are you seeing, though, throughout the day?
CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, so far, so good. The wait out here at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport is about 15
minutes right now, though we expect some of that to fluctuate throughout the day. It really hasn't been too bad considering the first day of what's
going to be a very busy weekend for the folks here in Atlanta.
In fact, airport officials out here tell us that they expect 357,122 people to travel through here alone today, making it the first the busiest travel
day here in Atlanta for all of 2020 -- 2025 -- 2024, excuse me. Getting ahead of myself.
As for the overall picture on just how these flights are looking across the U.S. right now, just over 3,200 flights have been delayed across the U.S.
As you mentioned, most of this is weather related. And we're told that at least 91 flights, Bianna, have been canceled because of what we're seeing,
particularly in the south with some of this bad weather making its way through this part of the country.
GOLODRYGA: Listen, just pack your patience and get to the airport much earlier. That's much easier said than done, especially when you're
traveling with little ones, but that's the best way to get on your flight and make it to your final destination.
Let's talk about the other story though that a lot of people are buzzing about, and that is now the second stowaway on a Delta flight. What is going
on here, Carlos?
SUAREZ: Yes, that's exactly right. So the airline is dealing with another one of these incidents. This happened earlier this week where we're told a
passenger was able to clear a TSA security checkpoint without a ticket, without a boarding pass the night before the actual flight that the
stowaway was able to get onto. All of this happened on Christmas Eve.
[12:35:02]
So we're told that this passenger is able to get passed through this checkpoint the night before. This passenger spends any number of hours in
the terminal before getting on this flight. And it's not until the aircraft is taxiing out for departure when one of the crew members realizes that
there's someone on board that shouldn't be. And so that aircraft goes back to the gate.
However, we're told that there was some sort of issue where the law enforcement was not able to get to the gate where this aircraft was coming
in on time. And so the door to this aircraft was opened and the stowaway ran out.
In fact, law enforcement out in Seattle said that they had to use surveillance video to figure out exactly where this passenger was. Bianna?
GOLODRYGA: Unbelievable. Luckily, the passenger was caught and we won't have any other fingers crossed attempted copycats in the future.
Carlos Suarez at Hartsfield Jackson Airport in Atlanta, thank you so much.
Well, there's new evidence that bird flu may have mutated in a way that could make it easier to transmit to humans. That's coming from the U.S.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The CDC has been looking at the virus in America's first severe case of bird flu diagnosed at a -- in a patient at a Louisiana hospital. CNN has
been talking about possible mutations with the founder of an animal sanctuary where 20 big cats have died of the disease.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is quick to point out that the risk to the general remains low. We'll be covering this story for
you.
Still to come, a look at the lessons learned from the first night of Hanukkah falling at the same time as Christmas this year.
Plus, we catch up with a birth mom and her daughter marking one year after their very emotional holiday reunion, thanks to a genealogy app.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEIDI WALLACE, DAUGHTER: Oh, look for your people. There's nothing like having the wholeness and completeness that I have now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Conservationists are using cutting-edge surveillance technology to monitor turtle nests in the Seychelles.
In today's Africa Insider, we visit Cousin Island, which has been protected by the Seychelles Special Reserve since 1975, allowing nesting turtles to
survive and thrive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIRMAL SHAH, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NATURE SEYCHELLES: You have to understand that these animals are still critically endangered where they've
been hunted for their meat, for their shell in particular.
CHRIS TAGG, CONSERVATION MANAGER, NATURE SEYCHELLES: We have very little disturbance here because the island is kept private. As a result, we've got
the highest number of hawksbills in the western Indian Ocean here. This island is only 27 hectares, but we get hundreds and hundreds of nests each
year. Compared to all the other islands around here, we get more than all of them combined.
SHAH: These animals come up, they dig a hole, put the eggs in there, they close it and they go. So what's happening in there?
[12:40:04]
TAGG: So the two that nest here are the green turtle and the hawksbill sea turtle. We've got a green nest at the moment, which is hatching out.
They're still underground right now. Hopefully they'll pop out tonight. Yes, I'm pretty excited for that one.
SHAH: We've been monitoring them for such a long time, but we don't have enough information on what's going on inside the egg and inside the nest
where these eggs are put.
I got this idea of trying to work with a tech company to put these kind of devices together in one package, which we call the Nest Device.
TAGG: That one is moisture. That one is O2. One is temperature. And that one is vibration. The gateway then pings it up to that thingy up there,
which then sends it to my laptop.
You need to look at, OK, how much oxygen is getting down to the eggs? Eggs do need a little bit of oxygen. What's the temperature of the nest? How
humid is the nest? I don't want to put them too much over the hole, just because the hatchlings are going to need somewhere to get out.
And now to prevent the smell getting out, because the crabs can smell the eggs, you need to camouflage the area. So you do what she does, which is
throw sand everywhere.
SHAH: It's important to have long-term data because we don't have a lot of data in many parts of Africa. So it's quite important that we automate the
monitoring of the environment.
TAGG: Instead of speculation, which scientists hate, we can go, OK, we've actually got tools that give us quantifiable data we can work with.
SHAH: This is the second year that we are working on it. And if it works, we'll get additional funding to make more of these devices and perhaps
propagate them to other sites where there are nesting turtles.
Conservation is a long-term pursuit. It takes a lot of money and it takes a lot of dedication. And we need information, because if we can't measure
something, we can't manage it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: As 2024 comes to an end, we're all reflecting back on the tumultuous events of the past year. It's also a chance to look ahead and
try to find common ground. The holidays this year are giving us an opportunity to do just that.
For the first time in 19 years, Christmas and the start of Hanukkah fell on the same day. Author Abigail Pogrebin, co-wrote an op-ed piece reflecting
on the significance of this event for "The New York Times."
[12:45:02]
She also is the co-author of a book that we will get to in a second, "It Takes Two to Torah," but here's what she wrote in "The New York Times"
piece.
We must decide, will we increase the light or stoke the fire on this special occasion? In their shaping of this holiday, our ancient rabbis'
answer this question is clear. Choose the light.
And Abigail Pogrebin joins me now. As I noted, she is also the co-author of a new book, "It Takes Two to Torah."
Abby, it is good to see you and just picking up on your op-ed.
ABIGAIL POGREBIN, AMERICAN AUTHOR: You too.
GOLODRYGA: The message this week is that while the miracle of lights is the more famous and I guess least controversial aspect of Hanukkah, the more
uncomfortable story not always told but just as significant is that of internal discord and in fighting. That's not something that is easy to
discuss, especially this time of year.
But talk about the significance of that and what that means, what your op- ed, the message it's sending to the public at large.
POGREBIN: Yes. I think we all know, or many of us know, the traditional Hanukkah story, which is -- which is an accurate one, which is basically
there was a cruel king, a Greek-Syrian king, who oppressed the Jewish people and outlawed Judaism.
Basically, pain of death. You could not celebrate Sabbath. You could not read Torah, any of the practices, under a tremendous penalty.
And there was a group of intrepid Jews, actually one family, the Maccabees, who defied that edict. And despite their small numbers, they fought that
army and they won very -- and very unlikely triumph. And that is a story of resilience of deciding that we are going to hold to our differences. And we
are not going to be snuffed out.
But there's another piece of that story, which is that the Maccabees were essentially, in some sense, you would say zealots of their day. They
insisted on a certain very strict brand of orthodoxy, of Judaism. And they did not allow any Jews who did not go along with that to basically to live
their own brand of Judaism, which was essentially they considered watered down.
So there was a basically sort of essentially a civil war, Jew against Jew at that time. And I think what it gives us is a sense that we have often
disagreed on things. And the larger point of that story and the one that the rabbis wanted to highlight is not to deny that there was that
infighting, that internecine battle, but really the bigger and more important story was the miracle of the light.
The fact that when they rededicated the temple that had been desecrated by the enemy, they basically, they had one cruise of oil and they managed to
last in a miracle for eight. And that is the story that the rabbis upheld because it's the one that we should not just aspire to but decide that
that's who we're going to be.
And our op-ed was saying, it's not a fabrication to say we choose our narratives and they define us. It's the same in America. I think we know
there was a civil war, and we teach it, and we don't ignore it. But it isn't the definition of who we are as Americans. It's not what we hold up
as our identity.
GOLODRYGA: And there's so much that unites us, right, as a nation that can be taken away in present day time and --
POGREBIN: Absolutely.
GOLODRYGA: -- applied to our discourse today.
Abby, I spoke earlier this week with a longtime friend who's an Episcopalian reverend and talked to him about this rare overlapping where
you have the start of Hanukkah coinciding with Christmas.
And I asked him to reflect upon that, what it means to him, obviously, two very different holidays, but how they can be interpreted and the takeaway
from that day. And he pointed back to the Abrahamic religions, the ancient Abrahamic religions, all sharing a common root and founder.
I'm just wondering how you reflect on this happening now, the first time in nearly two decades.
POGREBIN: Yes. It's the first time since 2005. And I'm not someone who believes in accidents, even though this is an accident of the calendar. I
think it's really powerful and poignant that these two holidays arrived on the same day this year, after we've lived through a year, maybe a long
stretch, of tremendous discord and polarization in our own country. Forget about even within our own people.
And I think that what it's asking us to do is look at exactly what you said, what we share in common. And that's not a platitude or a hallmark
card. We know there are foundational morals and ideas and ethics that we all raise our families by and try to live by.
I was actually listening to a pastor who said, if he was going to distill Christianity, he would say it's two things, love your God and love your
neighbor. And ironically, and I think you may know this, there is a story we often tell about Rabbi Hillel who when he had to teach the entire Torah
on one foot, he was asked to distill it, he said, what is hateful to you, do not do unto your neighbor.
[12:50:14]
So it's that basic idea that we share, that we owe something to our fellow human being. And on this holiday, which is a convergence of these two
really important faiths and traditions, when we are really instructed to add light, I mean, Christmas is completely a holiday of lights, it's been
called a festival of lights, and Hanukkah is absolutely the same, we add light, we can ask ourselves this year, how are we each doing that?
GOLODRYGA: What a wonderful message to send. And as -- I'm like you, I don't believe in coincidences. Things happen for a reason. And why not take
this opportunity to shine a light on what these two holidays really share and what we can take away from them and what we can learn from one another.
Abigail Pogrebin, I do -- we were supposed to have your call -- your co- author on as well. We couldn't sadly get him on the phone. This is Rabbi Dov Linzer. You're also the co-authors of "It Takes Two to Torah." We're
looking at the book right now.
This is an unlikely coupling. You're a reformed Jew.
POGREBIN: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: He's an orthodox rabbi. Just wondering what brought you to this idea and what you yourself have learned from the Torah, the Holy Scripture,
and how you view it as perhaps less intimidating than many other Jews like myself --
POGREBIN: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: -- would approach it.
POGREBIN: Well, there definitely are barriers. It can be overwhelming. And I'm sorry that Rabbi Linzer couldn't get on with us because he's just been
an incredible study partner and friend.
But basically, it was his idea that we take the Five Books of Moses, which some people think they've gotten pieces of, but they've never read in its
entirety, and that we talk about it.
Because as you know, in the -- in the Jewish tradition, that is our -- that is actually what we're supposed to do, is have a conversation out loud
about the -- about these stories. And what we did was we did it in a very kind of accessible way where each chapter is just five or six pages and we
go from the beginning of creation in Genesis until the end, Moses' death in Deuteronomy.
And this is a foundational document for all of us. And these conversations were challenging because Dov and I are very different Jews. We observe
differently, we pray differently. It's amazing how many -- how much difference there can be in such a tiny people.
But where we met is around a document of scripture, stories that have united our people for millennia, for 3,000 years. And when you actually
kind of kick the tires on the -- on these stories, on these ethics, and you say, why do they apply to my life today, it's extraordinary.
You see Torah everywhere. And I think that that's what's powerful again is that this document can withstand a modern lens and it actually can deepen
our lives when we -- when we talk about it out loud, even with someone who's very different from us.
GOLODRYGA: And you still learn something every single day.
Abigail Pogrebin, thank you so much for the time. Happy Hanukkah.
POGREBIN: Thank you, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Happy holidays to you. Appreciate the time.
POGREBIN: Same to you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, a family in Arizona just marked one year since their jaw- dropping holiday reunion. And it's all thanks to a curious granddaughter with an ancestry app that changed everything.
Lillian Donahue from our affiliate KNXV has more on the reunion that touched so many people.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LILLIAN DONAHUE, KNXV REPORTER (voice-over): A melody.
(MUSIC)
Made complete.
WALLACE: Now, I 100 percent know where my musical influence came from.
DONAHUE (voice-over): A moment between a birth mother and daughter, something that was missing for more than five decades.
WALLACE: Go look for your people. There's nothing like having the wholeness and completeness that I have now.
DONAHUE (voice-over): In 1970, then 17-year-old Sandra says she felt no choice but to give up her newborn for adoption.
SANDRA WEEDEN, MOTHER: I just wanted the very best in whatever way, whatever capacity that her parents could provide. And those wishes have
been more, have exceeded more than I thought.
DONAHUE (voice-over): Just last year, her granddaughter, who she didn't even know existed, reached out after finding a match on ancestry.com.
AZHIA-LIN THOMPSON, GRANDDAUGHTER: Panicking like, I think I found your mom and then that it just was history from there. And now it's just really cool
just now that we have more family.
(MUSIC)
DONAHUE (voice-over): This reunion between birth mother, daughter, and now granddaughters touched hearts across the country.
JACQUELINE WALLACE, GRANDDAUGHTER: You can never have too much family, you know, like I have like all these kinds of family, different shades,
different types, different colors, like everybody's different and that's like, you know, just like the best thing.
DONAHUE (voice-over): Sandra and Heidi reconnected last holiday season and they've spent the past year connecting, learning, sharing.
[12:55:01]
WALLACE: I'm just so happy that we have finally got to be able to connect. And I look forward to more memories to be made.
(MUSIC)
DONAHUE (voice-over): Memories like ringing bells this week for the Salvation Army.
(MUSIC)
And sharing songs known across generations.
DONAHUE: What's been the most fulfilling part of the past year?
WALLACE: Just knowing that she exists.
(MUSIC)
DONAHUE (voice-over): In Avondale, Lillian Donahue, ABC 15 Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: What a remarkable year it has been for the two of them. What a remarkable year.
That does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thanks so much for watching. "AMANPOUR" is up next.
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