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Quest Means Business
Biden Vows to Ensure Peaceful Transition; Trump Could Reshape Ukraine War; Trump Attorney's Phone Tapped by Chinese Hackers; Three Charges in Liam Payne's Death. Fed Chari Powell Says He Will Not Resign if Trump Asks; Trump Allies Jockey for Positions in New Administration; EU Leaders Urge Trump to Avoid Trade Wars, Supports Ukraine. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired November 07, 2024 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:07]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street. The Dow is so uninteresting, it is actually
interesting after it lost strong gains. That does not tell the whole story by the way because tech was up the market was bullish on certain key
stocks. I will show you the Dow 30 in a moment or three.
One, two, three. They've prepared the gavel, which is all good news. The market is closed and these are the main events of the day. The Fed Chair
said he is not going anywhere, even if Donald Trump asks him to resign.
Call it the Biden blame game. Some Democrats think the president is at fault for the defeat of Kamala Harris.
And a rare moment in political upheaval in Germany. The weak economy has triggered the collapse of the traffic light governing coalition.
We are live in New York. Thursday, November 7th. I am Richard Quest and I mean business. Yes.
Good evening.
The chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, said he will not resign if Donald Trump ask him when asked today, as the president-elect prepares his
return to the White House. The Fed chair was taking questions about the bank's quarter point rate cut that was fully expected. Chair Powell said
the Fed is confident inflation is falling back to two percent, and then some analysts predict that Trump's policies will reignite inflation.
But Powell says the Fed is not yet taking those proposals into account. Donald Trump has repeatedly criticized Chair Powell during his first term.
The Fed chair had a frosty response when asked about the tension and if he would resign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Some of the president-elect's advisers have suggested that you should resign. If he asked you to leave, would you go?
JEROME POWELL, US FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: No.
REPORTER: Can you follow up on it -- do you think that legally you're not required to leave?
POWELL: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Simple. No.
Chair Powell became Fed Chair during the first administration of Donald Trump. A source is telling us that Mr. Trump will likely keep him on
despite President Trump's criticisms. He had said amongst other things, that Powell had no guts and a horrendous lack of vision.
And then in 2020, he claimed the president can fire the Fed chair at will.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have some tremendous opportunities right now, but Jerome Powell is not making it easy. No, I
have the right to remove. I am not doing that. No, I am not doing that.
I have the right to also take him and put him in a regular position and put somebody else in charge, and I haven't made any decisions on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The view is that he doesn't have that right. In fact, Chair Powell said he doesn't have the right to, but let's not go there, Julia. Let's
just first of all, talk about the unease that would happen if the president did decide -- the president-elect to go for a full frontal attack on the
Fed chair.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR, "FIRST MOVE": It would make them uneasy because it is interference and we know and we've seen it over
the past few weeks that your Central Bank needs to be independent. It has to make tough decisions to hike rates at painful moments when prices are
high in order to bring them down. Independence is key.
I think it is good news that Jay Powell believes that he can't be interfered with, that he is adamant on that and was so concise about it.
The irony here, of course, Richard, is that they are aligned. The former president, president-elect wants to see interest rates come down. Right
now, the Federal Reserve also wants to bring interest rates down.
And really, the only or the biggest issue and unknown for now is whether or not the president-elect's own policies be they mass immigration limits,
mass and global tariffs will raise prices and end up forcing the Federal Reserve to slow down on those rate cuts.
So ball in the president-elect's court, one might say.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, but here is the point. If he -- you know, President Trump has also said, he does reserve the right to criticize.
Now, in the past, the standard rubric has always been the Fed is -- you know, you ask a politician, they say the Fed is independent, we have no
comment, blah, blah, blah and then they leak like a sieve behind-the- scenes.
Is it reasonable that the president should be allowed to jaw-jaw the Fed?
CHATTERLEY: Since when does standard rubric ever apply to Donald Trump?
QUEST: Right.
CHATTERLEY: Richard? Next question.
QUEST: Move on. Move on. Thank you. Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Sorry. I love you, but really.
QUEST: Let's go to the really hard one. Third rate cut in December. Yes or no?
CHATTERLEY: Oh good question. Yes. Yes. But I think the future path is more uncertain. It is more uncertain today than it was a month ago as a result
of the election of President Trump, whether he is willing to talk directly or indirectly about future politics and we will see what the rhetoric looks
like, Richard.
[16:05:12]
I mean, the interesting thing is we know that the president-elect likes to use the threat of tariffs as leverage to get people around the table. It
could just be a lot of hot air. It could be a lot of noise. It may be a lot of something serious, but we just have to wait and see.
QUEST: Maybe because were both British, do we care that the Bank of England cut rates by a quarter point and warned that inflation would not come back
down to target, it would take longer?
CHATTERLEY: Shall I tell you why I care, especially today? Because Goldman Sachs downgraded the growth estimates for Germany whose government is also
wobbling, of course, for the Euro area in its entirety as a result of US protectionist policies and the threat of tariffs.
So what is going on here in the United States economically also plays back to the challenges that all of these other Central Banks are facing, so yes,
I do actually care about them cutting rates because they might need the firepower and extra support for the economy going forward.
These are challenging and turbulent times and uncertain times, in particular.
QUEST: You are indeed a journalist for all seasons and all parts of the world. Julia, you'll be here with "First Move" in or there will we will be
"First Move, whether you're in it or not, is in two hours from now.
I am grateful to you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you.
QUEST: Are you looking forward to the next four years?
CHATTERLEY: I am ready to strap myself in, Richard.
QUEST: No, no, that's what I was going to say. I mean, you know, we've been here before. We know how it is going to be four years of strap yourself in
and watch what happens.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. I think the lesson that we learned and I hope we can apply it again is, listen less to the noise and follow the action, what actually
takes place versus the rhetoric and I am firmly on that plane where tariffs are concerned.
QUEST: Good to see you, Julia. Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you.
QUEST: Randall is with me. Randall Kroszner, good friend of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, former Fed governor, now professor at University of Chicago.
Oh, you're in London tonight, Randall.
RANDALL KROSZNER, FORMER FEDERAL RESERVE GOVERNOR: I am.
QUEST: Of course you get around. You get around.
Now, listen, what do you make of today's quarter point cut? Justified? And if so, do we get another one in December?
KROSZNER: So I think it was very much expected and I think it did make perfect sense. We've seen the inflation rate continue to come down. The Fed
had removed that phrase that it is getting more confident and basically said now it is confident that the inflation rate is coming down to its two
percent goal.
There is, you know, the headwind of all those interest rates that have interest rate increases have come in the past seeing a little bit of
slowing in the labor market. But I think probably given, well, we will what the outcome of the election is for whether the House and the Senate also go
to the Republicans.
But if they all go to the Republicans, I think there is likely to be a lot of deregulatory activity a lot of stimulus of investment through that. And
so I think the economy is going to probably be marked up by the Fed's estimates, and so they probably won't cut in December.
QUEST: So you see this is the interesting part because we do know from the last six months or for the last year or two years, the resilience of the
economy against increases in interest rates, by rights, we should have had a thumping big recession bearing in mind the way in which rates went up so
quickly.
So they are going -- they can't do the old blinkered see no evil, hear no evil politics. So they're going to have to respond, well, you know, they're
going to have to respond to what the fiscal policy is of the Trump administration.
KROSZNER: Oh for sure. What they will do is they'll make a forecast and I think that would be true, whether it had been the House, the Senate and the
president where Democrats or the Republicans, because if you have the same party in power, they are likely to spend and then I think you'll see that
if the whole Congress goes to the Republicans, that Trump will be able to execute on his plan to maintain the tax reform and tax cuts from when he
was in office before.
He has lots of spending plans and so that is going to be, at least in the short run, the stimulus for the economy.
QUEST: Right. Let's wade into deeper waters. We know the Fed is independent. Yes. We also know legally Trump can't fire them. But between
those two extremes, there is a gray area of political pressure. There is a gray area of president or secretary pushing pressure to do something and
the markets perceiving a lack of independence. Is that significant?
KROSZNER: So at least so far, I don't see any evidence that the markets are perceiving a lack of independence.
[16:10:10]
I think, the Fed long before the election outcome was known has made it pretty clear they were going to cut by 25 basis points and they cut by 25
basis points. They cut by 15, the previous round, that was pretty much I think seen as independent of the political winds.
So I think the Fed has at least has maintained its credibility for being independent. Now, of course, that could be challenged down the line, but
Chair Powell took a pretty strong line in today's press conference when asked about how he or any of the other senior leaders be removed? He said,
no, that's not legal.
QUEST: Yes. It might not stop the president-elect from trying when he comes into office.
Overall, we can say job done this is what the soft landing looks like. Do you agree? Discuss.
KROSZNER: So, you know, since I am a professor, I often -- I have to give grades, and we still haven't quite gotten to two percent in a sustainable
way. So I am going to have to give an incomplete.
QUEST: No. Come on. You're never going to -- you knew as well as anybody did, better than most that to get to two percent would have --
KROSZNER: For sure.
QUEST: -- pushed so hard it would have been into a recession.
KROSZNER: No, its impressive I think what the Fed has done because they responded. They were too slow as all Central Banks were to realize that
this was not just something that was transitory. They then responded very, very rapidly.
And then I think -- and made sure that inflation expectations didn't get out of control. So they didn't have to move rates up too high. Remember
last time inflation was this high, rates were at double digit levels. So they didn't have to go so high and that is one of the reasons why we didn't
have a recession.
But I think, at least, so far in the -- you know, at least the first couple of chapters of the dissertation, they are getting a very high grade.
QUEST: Oh, you're a hard one, I will tell you. I am not taking your classes. I am going for something easier next time.
Thank you very much, sir. Good to see you as always. Have a safe journey back when you come back. Thank you.
Now, sources are telling us Donald Trump is quickly moving to staff his new administration. Currently in Florida, he is working through an extensive
list of names. Just look at them. He could announce his picks on who will fill key positions within days.
And it is what to do with Elon Musk and Robert F. Kennedy and Treasury Secretary and all of those sort of things. These are -- you can see the
names that are being bandied around.
As for Kennedy and Elon Musk, polarizing figures, but they were high profile supporters.
Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach.
I am surprised that you can still put two words together and make common sense after so many hours working over the last few days. But I am grateful
that you are.
Look, they are not going to make the mistake of eight years ago. They're ready. They've got their names, they've got their vetting. And dear old
Howard Lutnick, friend of this program, is going to go into battle.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's right.
And the other thing is, I just got off the phone with one of his advisers, somebody who is not part of the campaign, but has talked to him a lot over
the last several weeks and one of the things that Donald Trump has continually said is that he is really taking the responsibility of choosing
these high level Cabinet positions much more seriously than he did last time.
He actually has admitted that he believes that he made mistakes in who he chose. That oftentimes he allowed other people to make those choices for
him and now he really wants to choose people that he believes are one, competent, but two, loyal to him. That's obviously going to be one of the
most important things to the former president.
Now among those jobs that are really critical are likely going to be some of the first jobs we hear about. One is chief-of-staff. This person is
going to serve as a loyal soldier to Donald Trump, be the right hand and really try to keep the White House in line. And we are told that Susie
Wiles, one of the co-campaign managers, is in the top running for that, is the frontrunner and while she has expressed interest in the job, she has
also given some conditions to the former president, essentially saying at one point that she doesn't want the clown car to be able to come into the
White House at any time at will.
One of the most damaging things to Donald Trump is not always just his own actions or his own words, but that of the people that are close to him and
the people that are very controversial and close to him. She has tried to keep those people at bay during the campaign. And one of her stipulations,
if she is chief-of-staff is that she has the power to keep them at bay in a Trump White House.
The other job that we are watching really carefully is attorney general. As we've been reporting, you know this, Richard, for the last year, Donald
Trump wants full control over the Justice Department. He wants to make it an extension of the executive branch of the White House and in order to do
that, he is going to need someone who is going to cooperate with him, meaning he is going to need a loyal soldier in attorney general, somebody
who is going to execute what Donald Trump wants and that includes dismissing those cases against him, potentially firing Jack Smith.
[16:15:10]
We still don't even know if that is technically legal or not, given the way that he was appointed by Merrick Garland, but it is something that Donald
Trump is clearly interested in.
QUEST: The process and the way, of course, having the Senate will make it considerably easier for getting the confirmation to our viewers -- our
global viewers -- you know, the Senate has to confirm with the advice and consent of the Senate, it makes it a lot easier.
But the ability to move fast and firm, let's ignore rhetoric of dictator on day only, but that is going to be key. He has made it clear that is the
goal.
HOLMES: Well, and that is the conversations that they are having right now in terms of moving fast on day one that he wants to know what he can do by
executive order and what he actually has to go through Congress on.
Again, as you said, a lot of the stuff that might have to go through Congress is likely going to get passed and passed quickly, but not as
quickly as signing an executive order.
So some of the conversations that he has been having with his transition team is, what can I actually do on day one? Obviously, he has made a lot of
promises, and not all those things are possible to do without congressional approval, but they are going through some of the stuff that is possible and
trying to figure out what they really want to prioritize so that that stuff is ready for him to put a signature on, on day one.
QUEST: One final question to you, have you kept a tally either of number of flights or number of hotel rooms or number of places that you have visited
over the course of the campaign while you've been going? Have you been keeping a little tally?
HOLMES: No.
QUEST: No?
HOLMES: Because I want to -- I think I've blacked out the entire experience and I've just like -- I could not tell you -- I don't even know where I was
the day before I got to West Palm Beach. I have no idea.
I feel like this has been an entire blur and I cannot believe it has been two years, and I also think if I tallied up how many flights and hotel
rooms I had, it would make me sad. So I just want to stay away from any of that.
QUEST: I remember Peggy Noonan writing in her book once, she said, when I got home after the campaign I automatically dialed nine for a line as if I
was in a hotel room again.
Good to see you. Thank you for always being with us on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. It is good to see you.
HOLMES: Thank you.
QUEST: Thank you.
HOLMES: Good to be with you.
QUEST: Now as you and I continue our nightly conversation and believe me, for the next four years, you and I will be chewing it over, getting to the
bottom of it, and talking about the economic decisions that matter.
Goldman Sachs believes it all could do -- the Trump victory could do real damage to Europe's economy. That is Sir Nigel Sheinwald. He is the former
British Ambassador to the United States. If he doesn't know or have some good ideas of what is next, no one will.
In a moment, Sir. Sir Nigel, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:23]
QUEST: European leaders are in Budapest discussing how to adapt to the incoming Trump administration. It is a bigger group than just the EU. It is
a European sort of community, larger grouping.
The Trump second term comes at a fragile time. Hours after his election, Germany's governing coalition fell apart. We will talk about that in just a
moment in the German context.
French President Emmanuel Macron was politically weakened after his election gamble backfired, but he said today, Europe needed to be
omnivores, not herbivores, whatever that might mean. All the while, Russian troops are making new advances in Ukraine.
Sir Nigel Sheinwald is the former British Ambassador to the US. He joins me from London.
Sir Nigel, how much trouble is Europe in?
SIR NIGEL SHEINWALD, FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Well look, I mean, I think there is one sense of welcome that the election is
over. We've had a year of waiting dangerously with a lot of elections on and yours in the United States, undoubtedly the most significant and
consequential so that degree of uncertainty is over, but a whole lot more is ahead and I think Europeans have good reasons to want to get in touch
with the incoming Trump administration, but to be quite apprehensive and there are a number of reasons for that.
I mean, very, very briefly they are Ukraine, they are NATO, they are trade and tariffs, and they are the unity of the continent. And whether the
election of President Trump and any desire he has to divide Europe and weaken some of the parties and others, that will affect European unity.
The UK of course, is now separate from the EU, but shares many of its positions.
QUEST: Okay, but this idea that and the EU has sort of tried to put forward this idea, we are ready, we know what to expect this time. Keep moving.
Move along. Nothing to see here. Are they really ready, do you think? I mean, at the best, you've got Orban on one side. Youve got Poland, you've
got Germany collapsing, or at least politically collapsing. Omnivores, herbivores, whatever that means and the UK, it is a bit of a mess.
SHEINWALD: Now, I would agree with you, Richard. I don't think they've got it all ready. I think they they've been preparing for a possible Trump
presidency, obviously, it has been on the cards and a possibility for a long time this year. So there is no excuse for not having done anything.
I am sure the European Commission will have thought through what it is going to do over tariffs. We won't know exactly what the incoming
administration is going to do, but they will undoubtedly retaliate. And that side of it may be is clearer than is clearer than the rest.
But we don't know a lot about what the Trump administration is going to do on tariffs. Are they going to just announce them and impose them? Or are
they going to talk first to the EU and to America's major trade partners and try and sort out the lay of the land and then impose them if they're
not happy with the outcome.
It is very unclear what the deal is going to be.
QUEST: Let's talk about the UK. I was just looking at pictures there at Sir Keir Starmer. If the EU is in trouble, I mean, you wouldn't want to be
secure would you, having to go and face Donald Trump knowing that your political pundits and parties have been out there helping his opposition.
He is a man who exacts revenge, Trump.
If you were sitting in the Lutyen Mansion in DC now, what would be in the context, what would be the content of your confidential cable back to
London?
SHEINWALD: Well, I mean, I think that you're right that the UK having lived through, is exposed in --
QUEST: Oh, we were doing so well, there we go, just as we were talking. Sir Nigel, if you can hear me, your screen froze. Oh you've gone. I am so
sorry, we will have you again back on another occasion because I'd very much like to see -- are you still there, Sir Nigel? No. He is gone. He is
gone. Apologies, I was really interested to hear his answer on that, but we will get back to that.
Sir Nigel alluded to the economic situation. Goldman Sachs expects that the Trump policies will have a big economic consequence for Europe. It now
forecasts the Eurozone growth to be just 0.8 percent next year, down from an earlier prediction of more than one percent.
Goldman says Europe will struggle with the uncertainty of a Trump White House, predicting European nations and the tariffs and pressuring them to
increase defense spending. But then one particular country, Goldman Sachs, singles out Germany, very vulnerable because of the turmoil at home.
[16:25:10]
Chancellor Scholz under pressure to fast track a new election, firing the finance minister on Wednesday, Christian Lindner withdrew his party from
the traffic light coalition.
Anna Stewart is with me.
So Anna, the traffic light coalition looks like it is going to collapse. Scholz isn't going to call a confidential motion until I think January,
correct me if I am wrong. What happens between now and then? Do they muddle on through?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: This is a complete fiasco and very unlike the German government, let's remember that the predecessor, Angela Merkel was
chancellor for 16 years. Here we have complete chaos. Finance minister fired, as you say, coalition completely broken down, lame duck government,
Olaf Scholz would like to have a confidence vote in January or early next year, but I am not sure he is going to make it because he needs probably
the support of one of the biggest parties in the Bundestag, that is the CDU and they have said they want the confidence vote, Richard, next week.
QUEST: I was going to say in any other Parliament, the confidence vote is usually held sort of within 24 to 48 hours, not a week next Thursday and
two months after Christmas.
STEWART: Well, you need support from someone, particularly if you consider that this whole government has really come to a bit of a collapse because
it needs to pass legislation, it needs a plan, Richard.
Its economy is in crisis. It has a fiscal hole that is threatening to become some sort of giant chiasm, so they really need to have some
functional government and a Parliament able to pass laws.
QUEST: So have you got any idea what Macron meant when he said that Europe needs to be more omnivore than herbivore? I am guessing it is got to be
eating more meat than plants, obviously, I get it, but how does that translate itself in reality, Anna Stewart?
STEWART: Oh my goodness. We could we could talk about this all night long, Richard.
In terms of Germany, it is facing huge problems. I mean, I don't know whether you want to look at the fact that its chemical industry, its
engineering industry, its car industry are all in the doldrums. Its economy is barely growing. It has got huge issues with bureaucracy, high labor
costs, energy costs have bitten particularly hard.
And now what it really needs to do is come up with a plan. Olaf Scholz would like to spend its way out of this crisis, that will require a huge
change in terms of fiscal rules, which is why he fell out with his finance minister, but frankly, the outlook looks bleak and the whole trigger really
for this, it links in with your last guest, of course is the outcome of the US election.
QUEST: Right, but if we take it into the pan European level, you have Viktor Orban who is far closer to Donald Trump. You have got a weakened
Emmanuel Macron in Paris who would like to be in a sense, the bridge. He has already talked about how they've done business before with Trump.
Europe is not in its best shape here, who leads?
STEWART: And its biggest economy, traditionally, the leader has been Germany. So we are seeing something of a vacuum there in terms of how the
EU is going to approach next year, which could be catastrophic, really. Ten percent tariffs on all US imports. It will hit an economy like Germany
particularly hard.
And in the last few months, the EU has not been singing from the same hymn sheet. If you look at things like their approach to tariffs on Chinese cars
being imported into the EU, they are very split on it, particularly with Germany and France really looking in opposite directions on many of these
issues.
QUEST: Anna, you have your work cut out for you for the course of the next four years.
STEWART: I do.
QUEST: Get the tin helmet, ready. All right, thank you.
As you and I continue our discussions tonight, some Democrats are blaming US President Joe Biden for everything that has happened. The party would
have had a better chance if he had dropped out sooner. Is that a fair criticism of the sitting president? In a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:10]
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. A lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment.
Democrats are playing the blame game obviously, and the fingers are pointing at the president, the current president. Is it fair? In a moment.
Donald Trump criticized U.S. support for Ukraine. Now his new administration is going to have to decide its policy and how to adapt.
We'll talk about that.
It's only after the headlines because this is CNN, and here are the news always comes first.
New climate data confirms that 2024 will be the hottest year on record. It will also be the first year to exceed the 1.5 Celsius warming threshold.
The alarming report comes from the Copernicus Climate Change Service ahead of next week's U.N. climate conference.
Rescue and recovery operations are now underway in Cuba in the wake of Hurricane Rafael. The category three storm slammed into the island on
Wednesday. It caused a total blackout. Power has since been restored in some areas.
Prosecutors in -- I beg your pardon. Rudy Giuliani has until next week to turn over his valuables as part of a defamation judgment. The former Trump
attorney owes around $150 million to two Georgia election workers. He must give them his sports cars, his two dozen watches and sports memorabilia. A
judge has threatened Giuliani with contempt if he fails to meet this deadline.
President Biden addressed the nation earlier for the first time since Trump's victory. The current president says the election was fair and vowed
to ensure a peaceful transition of power. Mr. Biden called his presidency historic, highlighting investments in infrastructure, and said that people
will soon see the benefits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's truly historic. You know, we're leaving behind the strongest economy in the world. I know people are
still hurting, but things are changing rapidly. Together, we've changed America for the better. Now we have 74 days to finish the term -- our term.
Let's make every day count.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The finger-pointing amongst the Democrats has begun. The president is getting the finger. This "Atlantic" headline sums it up. "Blame Biden."
Biden probably doomed from the jump. They're faulting the president for not stepping aside sooner arguing Harris never had enough time to mount a
successful campaign against President-elect Trump.
Julian Zelizer, our political analyst, is with me.
[16:35:00]
There is some truth in this one cannot deny because, not only have he got out of the way sooner, there could have been, you know, she could have had
a better run, but also they wouldn't have had this accusation that they shoehorned somebody in at the convention.
JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. If he had gone out earlier and decided not to run, it would also have allowed for some kind of primary
process which might have benefited her as well as created a competition, in addition to those kinds of charges. So I think there'll be a lot of
discussion of that decision by him to run until the very end.
And obviously, the other criticism is that she was burdened with the unpopular elements of his record, and she just couldn't separate herself,
and the polls showed the economy, immigration, those were issues which really hurt her.
QUEST: In my deli this morning, I don't know, I was getting a sandwich and a cup of coffee, the guy said to me, the man behind the counter, he said,
look, at the end of the day we heard nothing from this woman for four years and then -- or three years, then all of a sudden she's the top person.
Theres is an element of the current administration downplayed her, didn't promote her, didn't show -- it was a very different from the Obama-Biden
weekly lunches and Biden always standing next to Obama.
ZELIZER: Yes, I think there's something to that. There are many vice presidents who we don't hear from and sometimes when we hear from them,
it's because there's a problem. Vice President Cheney was notoriously controversial. But it is true that from what we know President Biden was
not particularly eager to elevate her and didn't seem to anticipate that she might be running so that also limited her ability to present herself to
the nation.
QUEST: Right.
ZELIZER: All of this is part of what happened. I don't think it's the full explanation, though.
QUEST: So at what point do you think the man who came into power saying I will be a transition president, who led everybody to believe he was a one-
termer to get rid of Trump and move on, at what point do you think he said I can't give up all this power?
ZELIZER: I think pretty early on. I mean, naturally in Washington, after studying many presidents once you have it, no one wants to give it up.
Former Speaker Pelosi always says in Washington, no one gives you power. You have to take it from them. And I think that very early on Biden was
imagining two terms and starting to plan out how that would happen. And he did not think about what ultimately took place in July.
That was really about his age and the Democrats pressuring him to stop, as opposed to his abandoning those goals.
QUEST: Julian, it's always good to talk to you. You and I have probably got many more things over the next four years.
ZELIZER: Thank you. Yes. For sure.
QUEST: Buckle up. Buckle up is our phrase of the night. Thank you.
Ukraine's president has congratulated Donald Trump for what he called a tremendous campaign. He would say that, wouldn't he, as they say. We'll
talk about what a Trump White House will mean -- could mean for President Zelenskyy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:40:45]
QUEST: President Putin said he is willing to talk to President-elect Trump and expressed his congratulations. Meanwhile, Ukraine's President Zelenskyy
has already picked up the phone and said the two had an excellent call. He posted on X that he and the president or elect agreed to maintain close
dialog.
So let's look at this relationship between Donald Trump and President Putin. It's fraught. Trump's critics fault him for wanting to build a
rapport with the Kremlin. Zelenskyy told European leaders in Budapest that Putin only responds to pressure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We are defending ourselves, not against Russian wars, but against Russian attacks. Therefore, we need
sufficient weapons, not supporting talks. Hugs with Putin will not help. Some of the leaders have been hugging him for 20 years and things are only
getting worse. He thinks only about wars and will not change. Only pressure can put limits on him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now with me is Alex Marquardt.
And few people understand the impact of the U.S. support is having on the battlefield better than you, Alex. Before we talk to you, let's take a look
at one of your reports from Zaporizhzhia last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This American armored Bradley fighting vehicle, rarely shown to the press.
The Bradley team leader named Katch (PH) is just 19. He shows us inside.
Why do you wear the American flag?
Katch (PH) is just four months out from American training in Germany. His U.S. flag patch, a parting gift for good luck from his U.S. trainer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: So now you've been there several times. You know it. And they must be whatever the diplomacy is, they must be terrified in a sense or worried
that Trump is going to try and get them to sue for peace on terms that they don't want to do it.
MARQUARDT: And, Richard, I think that that moment that you just showed really encapsulates the kind of support that the Ukrainians have enjoyed
for the past few years. Those men who I spoke with on the battlefield, they had just come out of several weeks of training outside of Ukraine. They
were part of a set of forces that had gotten all kinds of U.S. equipment. The Bradley that we were sitting in there, Strykers, they'd gotten tanks,
they'd gotten all kinds of ammunition and drones, et cetera, et cetera in order to mount this counteroffensive that actually didn't end up working.
And so now we're having a new U.S. president come into office essentially saying, well, tens of billions of dollars have been -- of equipment and
aid, economic aid, military aid have been sent over to Ukraine, and for what? The Ukrainians have not been able to push the Russians out of the
country. The front is essentially at a standstill. In fact, the Russians are making some gains in the eastern part of Ukraine.
So, Richard, you're absolutely right. Right now in Kyiv, there is significant concern about what comes next. We know that the Biden
administration is going to try to get as much of the military aid that has been approved by Congress --
QUEST: Can they do that? Can they do that? How much can he railroad Biden, that is, this administration? How much can they railroad through with the
old Congress that would stymie the new administration?
MARQUARDT: Well, they have a couple billion dollars left. $425 million went out the door last week. But you need to remember, Richard, even if this
stuff is approved and the shipments are getting -- and put together, the moment that President Trump comes into office, he can essentially stop
that. Now, President Trump has not said that he is point blank going to stop all weapons shipments to Ukraine. But there have been indications, his
vice president has been -- has talked quite negatively about military aid for Ukraine.
And President Trump has made it clear that he wants to stop this conflict as soon as possible. So that fear in Kyiv is going to be President Trump
essentially forcing the Ukrainians to the negotiating table, which could mean giving up a significant part of their country, Richard.
QUEST: Now, what his ability, Donald Trump's ability to actually -- he said he wants to do anything before the inauguration.
[16:45:03]
Well, he can't. A, you know, that wonderful line the U.S. only has one president at a time and it's Joe Biden. And also there is this little thing
called the Logan Act, which stops anybody from interfering in foreign policy as a freelancer. So he can't really do that much other than the sort
of the threat and the influence. Or am I missing something here, Alex?
MARQUARDT: No, I mean, the conversations can start, though, and we know that they have. President Zelenskyy and former president Trump have spoken.
And so now we're in this lame duck period where on the one hand President Zelenskyy is going to try to get as much as he can out of the Biden
administration in these final two and a half months, and he will certainly hope that that results in hundreds of millions of dollars more in aid,
while at the same time setting up a situation and the conversations in which that relationship can continue into the Trump administration.
So what we're seeing from Kyiv is essentially a lot of flattery. You touched on some of the messages that we're hearing from President
Zelenskyy. He talked about the very impressive election victory. So essentially, he's trying to butter up Trump in the hope that the Biden
policy will carry over into the Trump administration. But that is far from certain, Richard.
QUEST: Alex, no doubt at some point you'll be going back there again, and we look forward to your report. Thank you, sir, for joining us tonight.
Appreciate it.
Now, of course, sources are telling CNN that Chinese hackers have gained access to the phone of one of Donald Trump's attorneys. The FBI told Todd
Blanche that the hackers got voice recordings and text messages. None of it was related to the president-elect. Blanche is the latest person in Donald
Trump's orbit to be targeted by foreign hackers.
Paula Reid is with me.
I'm guessing, what's the purpose here? I mean, it's confidential. It's privileged. What do you think is going on here?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not surprising that foreign adversaries would be interested in the contents of
the phone of one of President-elect Trump's lead criminal defense attorneys. Todd Blanche is involved not only in the New York prosecution,
the hush money case, he's also involved in the federal cases. So that's election interference, the alleged mishandling of classified documents.
Any communication that he was having with his client, documents related to these cases, that would be of interest to foreign adversaries. But I'm told
by my sources that when Blanche was briefed by the FBI, he was told that these Chinese hackers, they did obtain some information off his phone, but
there's no indication that there was anything related to Trump. They would be under an obligation to disclose that.
So, so far, it seems innocuous what they obtained. But it's hard to believe that the Chinese government got into his phone and, you know, only took
communications between him and his family.
QUEST: Yes. And of course, the other thing is, in theory, well, not theory, in legal seriousness, those communications between Donald Trump and his
lawyer would be absolutely privileged both -- not in law in this, in the United States and if there was something salacious then, well, who knows
where it might end up.
REID: Yes. I mean, of course privilege means it doesn't have to be disclosed publicly.
QUEST: Right.
REID: These are things that are protected even a court of law. But obviously that doesn't apply to the Chinese government. So it would not be
surprising if some of this were to leak. But it's more likely that they're just using it to understand the president-elect, understand what's going
on, if they have any damaging information. I think that's probably what they're most interested in, because we know this is a widespread effort.
They targeted Democrats, Republicans, other members who are far less significant of the Trump legal team. So as we know, the Chinese government,
they're quite prolific in their hacking and tapping efforts.
QUEST: Grateful for you this evening. We'll talk more. We've got four years ahead of us. Good luck. Thank you.
As we continue, prosecutors in Argentina have now charged three people in connection with the death of Liam Payne. A hotel employee and a suspected
drug dealer. We'll talk about that and give you some details in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:51:35]
QUEST: Prosecutors in Argentina have charged three people for crimes in connection with the death of the former One Direction member, Liam James.
One of those arrested is a drug dealer. One of them is a hotel employee. Payne died after falling from a hotel balcony, and according to officials,
he had alcohol, cocaine and prescription antidepressants in his system.
Julia Vargas Jones is in Los Angeles.
Reading the catalog of what they know from the forensic examination of his phone and the video, the closed circuit video, a rather sad picture has now
emerged.
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They have, Richard, and what we're hearing from this toxicology report is actually congruent with what we saw
in that hotel room. Those pictures of the aftermath. So now we know from this report that he had at least many times that he ingested some kind of
antidepressant, alcohol and cocaine. This is from the prosecutor's office in Buenos Aires.
They also said that his injuries from that fall were compatible with those caused by falling from a height. And now of course there was some
speculation he had fallen on purpose, he had thrown himself out of that, out of that balcony in Buenos Aires on that day, or if he had fallen by
accident, they still don't quite know. But they did say that they ruled out self-inflicted injuries or the intervention of other people.
We do know that he was alone when this happened as that's what the prosecutor's office has been informing us.
QUEST: Right. And indeed that is part of one of the charges, isn't it? Resulting from being the abandonment of a person before a death. So this --
I mean, the reality of the situation becomes clear. The dealers there, somebody he was partying with was there. They all left. He dies, they go,
they're being charged accordingly.
VARGAS JONES: They are. So these three people, so one of them, that individual that you mentioned, that's someone that is described as someone
who spent a lot of time with him on a daily basis while he was in Argentina, some sort of a handler, we can speculate here.
And I'll add, Richard, by the way, that these are these are preliminary charges in Argentina. The system there works a little bit differently, but
these are charges that were attached to these people. So abandonment of a person before death and the supply and facilitation of narcotics. That is
punishable for up to 15 years in Argentina. The second person there is a hotel employee that is said to have facilitated some kind of acquisition of
drugs, and then a third person who was a suspected drug dealer that was in contact with these other suspects as well.
Of course, you saw the amount of sorrow that Liam Payne caused for his fans in Argentina. The outpour of love that came to that. His father went to
Argentina to retrieve his body. We're still waiting on his return to the U.K. and details on what his funeral might look like, Richard.
QUEST: I'm grateful. Thank you very much. Time for us to talk, but I'm grateful for your time. Thank you very much.
So Donald Trump has been told by the chair of the Fed that he's not leaving, and you can't fire me, and I'm not going anywhere. So what does
Donald Trump's election victory mean for the economy? Hear from the former Treasury secretary, Steve Mnuchin, who spoke to Jake Tapper just a short
while ago and told him what's likely to be in the policies.
[16:55:09]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN MNUCHIN, FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, I think President Trump is very focused on inflation. We had very low inflation in the first
term. I think his priority will be to extend the Trump tax cuts. I think he'll add in some additional cuts to that. That will be pro-growth and
continue to grow the economy. I think he's very focused on a trade agenda, and I think tariffs are very effective in negotiating and creating free and
fair trade.
We don't have free and fair trade. So, as it relates to China, the China tariffs going up will be very effective in bringing them back to the table.
They're not honoring a lot of the commitments that they made in our phase one trade agreement.
I also think cutting regulations will also help a lot in energy policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: We will take a "Profitable Moment" on economics after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment," don't fight the Fed. It's the oldest line from the markets. You don't take on the Federal Reserve when it comes
to interest rates, and we might as well adapt that when it comes to politics.
Presidents, by and large, do not fight with the Fed. It is a no-win situation. Donald Trump learned that, by the way, when he didn't reappoint
Janet Yellen and he went for -- he went for Jay Powell and then now he's got Jay Powell. And now the question of course what happens afterwards.
He's not going to take him on. I promise you that. There's no votes in it. There's no merit in it and Jay Powell wouldn't go quietly anyway. He told
us that. So don't fight the Fed. And the four years hence Powell is gone in 2026 anyway.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope its profitable.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour we are breaking down some of the plans that a new Trump administration could
enact, starting literally on day one, including Trump's promise to begin deporting millions of undocumented migrants in the United States right now.
How exactly might that plan work?
Plus, there are still crucial races left to call that could decide whether Republicans or Democrats control the House of Representatives. If
Republicans keep it, that would be on top of controlling the White House and the Senate. How are Democrats preparing for the possibility of one-
party control? Will they be able to get any Democratic priority passed?
And leading this hour, Donald Trump preparing for his return to the White House meeting with his transition team today down in Florida, where they
have set up an office to prepare for a second term.
END
