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Quest Means Business
California Officials Put New Curbs on Price Gouging as Rents Soar; Northern Ireland Worried U.K. Travel Fee Will Dent Tourism. Israeli Official: Cabinet to Vote Saturday on Ceasefire Deal; Bessent Says He Wants to Toughen Oil Sanctions on Russia; Biden Warns of Emerging Oligarchy, Tech-Industrial Complex. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 16, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:14]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell just ringing on Wall Street. The Dow is just off some 72 points. Go on,
we've just had the gavel there. Oh, one, two, three. Oh, oh. Did you see that? You don't get that every day. It proves it is all live. The gavel
went a goner.
I'm sure Flowco doesn't have -- look at that. Well done. Well done, sir.
We will show you that before the end of the program again, in case you missed it.
The gavel gone a goner. The market is down 68 points. The market and the main events of the day.
Israel's Cabinet expected now to vote on a Saturday for the ceasefire and hostage deal. The casualty numbers are rising in Gaza.
Donald Trump's pick for Treasury Secretary tells his confirmation hearing tariffs won't raise prices.
And President Biden is warning against an oligarchy and the tech industrial complex as part of his farewell address.
Live from London, a very good evening to you. It is Thursday. It is January the 16th. I am Richard Quest, with a gavel that's gone and I am in
business.
Good evening.
Tonight, Israel appears closer to approving a ceasefire Hamas. But the Israeli official says the Cabinet will only vote on it on Saturday.
The Prime Minister's Office had said the Cabinet would only be convened once the deal was fully settled. The vote was delayed after Israel accused
Hamas of backtracking on its commitments.
Hamas says it stands by its word. The US Secretary of State Antony Blinken says he is confident the deal will go forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, US SECRETARY OF STATE: Over 15 months of devastating conflict between Israel and Hamas, we have worked to broker a deal that
would bring hostages home, that would stop the fighting, that would surge humanitarian aid to people who so desperately need it. That would create
the space to conclude a permanent ceasefire.
We now have that, and we expect implementation of the agreement to begin on Sunday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The Hostage and Missing Families Forum held a rally today. They demanded the government secure the release of their relatives.
Bianna Golodryga spoke to the brother of hostage, Keith Siegel, who is expected to be released in the first phase of the deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE SIEGEL, BROTHER OF KEITH SIEGEL: Something will be signed. This agreement will be signed and then I can allow myself a little bit of
regular breathing, normal breathing that, yes, we will start and it will continue for the six weeks and within that time, I believe Keith will be
one of the hostages who returns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Bianna is with me now, and as I followed this, various -- the twists and turns here. There is no doubt, is there, well, correct me or whatever
that the Cabinet will approve this in some shape or form.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, it seems that this setback is a temporary one as of now, as we had expected for the Cabinet to
vote today. Now, as you noted, Richard, it will be Saturday.
The full Cabinet, Saturday, the Security Cabinet tomorrow. We did get another setback for Prime Minister Netanyahu today, where one of his far-
right coalition members, Itamar Ben-Gvir, his National Security minister, who has vocally been in opposition to this deal, threatened today that he
would resign from the government, the coalition, if in fact, this agreement passes.
Bezalel Smotrich, the Finance minister, said that he would do the same if, after the first phase of the deal, Israel is not allowed to go back into
Gaza. That having been said, though, the overwhelming majority of this government supports the deal.
So for now, it doesn't appear that any of the exits of or threatened exits of some of these far right coalition government members would impede this
deal from passing.
And then if everything goes according to plan, then the ceasefire and hostage release deal would start Sunday. And for these families, as you
know, Richard, both in Gaza and the families of the hostage members, they and those that are held hostage, they cannot come home soon enough, and the
fighting can't stop soon enough.
[16:05:04]
You played that sound from Keith Siegel's brother, Lee, who I spoke with, Keith Siegel, one of seven American hostages in Gaza. I also spoke with the
cousin of Agam Berger, one of the five IDF female soldiers who is also expected to be released in the first phase of this deal. And so much
concern about what these hostages have gone through, especially the women.
I talked to her cousin about what she is most worried about when she sees, hopefully her cousin return home. Here is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY WAXMAN BAKSHI, COUSIN OF AGAM BERGER: She is a beautiful young girl who has been 15 months in the hands of people that we know committed the
worst atrocities against women in one day. We know what they did on October 7th. We also know from released hostages who came home what they did to
hostages in captivity.
That's the biggest fear. The physical aspect of it, and I don't need to go into detail. I think everyone who is watching understands what that fear
means. But more importantly, the mental and emotional aspect of what kind of trauma something like that can do to a young girl who is 20 years old,
who has her whole life ahead of her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: And as of now, if everything goes according to plan, Richard, the first hostages, three are expected to be released on Sunday. These are
female civilians, followed the next week by what is expected to be the release of those five IDF female soldiers as well, including Ashley's
cousin, Agam Berger.
QUEST: Bianna, thank you. Great to see you in Tel Aviv tonight.
The Israeli far right is opposed to the ceasefire. The police minister, Ben Gvir, says he will quit the government if it is approved. He wants Finance
Minister Bezalel Smotrich to join him. Smotrich and his party want the ceasefire to expire after six weeks. The opposition leader, Yair Lapid, has
offered the prime minister a safety net. He said he will support Netanyahu's government to push through if push comes to shove.
Daniel Levy is the president of the US-Middle East Project.
We have obviously, the prospect of the jubilation of hostages returning and of peace arriving, but this is now well and truly enmeshed and down and
dirty into Israeli politics as well.
DANIEL LEVY, PRESIDENT, US-MIDDLE EAST PROJECT And it always has been, Richard, this is what is really, in a way surprising is what you're seeing
is a unanimity which you don't get in Israel, you know that, as I do.
From the pro and anti-Bibi camps, the pro and anti-deal camps, who are all saying -- some saying Bibi is right to hold out, others saying he is wrong,
but it is now clear that the holdout has been in key respects, the Israeli politics around this.
And Netanyahu knew that if he was forced into the corridor of making a deal, his domestic political coalition longevity would be at stake and that
is where we are today.
QUEST: On the question -- two important areas relating to that. On the question of how denuded, destroyed, or annihilated is Hamas, if Hamas is
essentially still the governing force in Gaza and you've lost hostages, it begs the legitimate question on both sides, Mr. Netanyahu, prime minister,
what was this all about?
LEVY: You are asking the very question that so many Israelis are asking today, and I have not seen before this -- and this is unusual in its
length, also this military conflict, so much question of what are even the military achievements, even Blinken said Hamas has replenished its ranks in
the last week, 15 Israeli soldiers were killed in the area that they've invaded now several times, Hamas is still standing and you're not going to
get -- let's not beat around the bush -- what you couldn't achieve as Israel in 15 months of military campaign, you're not going to achieve in a
ceasefire agreement with Hamas. So this isn't going to be what vanquishes Hamas.
And so if you look at the huge devastation in Gaza and what that has done to Israel reputationally, legally, Israel's economy, and then, of course,
everything that the families of the hostages have gone through, and you set that against the achievements, this is all not looking good for Netanyahu,
which, again, is why he doesn't want to get to the morning after.
[16:10:09]
It seems that he will do everything to try and make sure this deal, if it can't see the light of day, that's the best, but if it does, that it is as
short lived as possible, except that there is this new American president on the other side of the equation.
QUEST: Is there any -- oh, I won't say truth, let's just say validity to this argument that is doing the rounds in Washington that Biden
deliberately did -- President Biden deliberately did not put the necessary pressure on Netanyahu, the sort of pressure that the mere threat of Trump
coming in and Trump's special envoy allowed this, in other words, the US -- the existing US president, is complicit in that which Israel has done.
LEVY: It is both a horrible and an unavoidable conclusion to reach with the following packaging to get it right. First of all, Trump, by dint of being
Trump, we see this play out in other spaces in the world, the Trump trepidation factor. It just feels like this guy is unpredictable, and it is
not like he is going to put the squeeze on Israel when it comes to settlements or ending the occupation or Palestinian rights.
But he could see that his view of an American interest and of his own interest does not align with Netanyahu's own personal political interest.
So that is the fear from Netanyahu.
And on the flip side, for Biden and the Biden team, perhaps they wanted to get this done. One imagines they really wanted to get this done, but they
were never willing to do what was necessary to use that leverage, and so they come out of this looking so weak. And this is really a final damning
indictment, and it is unavoidable, though, that the truth is very transparent in that respect.
QUEST: We will talk more in the days ahead. We've both got busy days. I am grateful to you, Daniel, as always. Thank you for joining QUEST MEANS
BUSINESS.
LEVY: Take care.
QUEST: Now, the announcement of the ceasefire has had no immediate effect on the fighting as we were just talking about then, 83 people, according to
Palestinian officials have been killed in Israeli strikes since the deal was reached and announced. It is the deadliest day in over a week.
Israel says it struck around 50 terror targets. Gaza's Civil Defense says 50 women and children are amongst the dead.
Jomana Karadsheh has more on the angst and fear felt in Gaza, and the video and her report contains disturbing video.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Joy and relief with the announcement of a deal. Finally, the moment they've been
longing for.
(UNIDENTIFIED GIRL speaking in foreign language.)
KARADSHEH (voice over): "We want to go back home. We just want to go back to school and learn," she says. "This is the most amazing day."
At least that's what it seemed, but the bombs didn't stop. Shortly after the agreement was reached on Wednesday, another round of Israeli strikes.
The military says it is still going after Hamas targets. It brought those same horrific scenes the world has watched on repeat for 15 bloody months.
The ceasefire is set to begin on Sunday, and so many in Gaza fear the days before that will only bring more horror.
And when the guns do fall silent, if they do, it will be the start of a new, difficult and painful chapter for those who survived the bombs, the
bullets, the siege and starvation as they begin to pick up the pieces of lives left shattered beyond recognition, homes gone, and loved ones who
didn't live to see this day.
(AMOHAMMAD speaking in foreign language.)
KARADSHEH (voice over): "I don't know how I will go back to Gaza City to continue living without my children," Amohammad (ph) says. "I dreamt of the
day of going back with them by my side playing. They were gone in the blink of an eye."
Hala was four, Ahmed, two, killed in an Israeli strike in the first month of the war, two of nearly 18,000 Palestinian children killed. A ceasefire
only means the killing will stop, their mother says, and she will finally have the chance to grieve.
Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: As you and I continue tonight, Donald Trump's billionaire pick for the US Treasury Secretary has been before -- is going through his
nomination or confirmation process, and President Biden is warning of a dangerous concentration of power amongst a small group of wealthy people.
Who is he talking about?
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:17:17]
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
QUEST: There you go. It doesn't happen very often. Another look at the smashing end. The overzealous gavelier causing the head to fly off as he
ended proceedings.
I think some of them do try to do that, but it doesn't happen that often.
Donald Trump's pick for US Treasury Secretary says he wants to toughen oil sanctions against Russia.
Scott Bessent took questions from senators and suggested the Biden administration held off raising sanctions for political reasons. He also
spoke about tariffs, saying he doesn't expect the measure to raise costs for consumers.
Catherine Rampell is with me.
Look, Mr. Bessent, is a is a safe pair of hands in a sense, when it comes to markets. He knows all the issues. He is going to get confirmed. This is
not a -- this is not a tough one per se.
But we are getting an idea now of how the whole thing is going to work, particularly on this tariffs question.
CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS AND POLITICS COMMENTATOR: Yes, he is certainly a more traditional pick than some of Trump's other chosen Cabinet
members or Cabinet member nominees in any event.
He has worked in finance for a very long time. He doesn't seem particularly loony. He is well-respected in markets. That's not to say that he gave
completely accurate assessments of how Trump's economic policies would affect markets.
So you mentioned the tariffs, for example. Of course, Bessent was a good soldier today and expressed support for the president's tariffs and
dismissed concerns that these tariffs would lead to higher prices, as basically every economist has said that they would and his argument was
something along the lines of, well, this will just cause the dollar to appreciate and therefore prices will adjust.
But that relies on a whole bunch of assumptions, including that other countries don't retaliate, which they did almost instantaneously last time.
But, you know, Bessent has to put the best face he can on these policies that pretty much every economist out there thinks would be destructive to
the US economy.
QUEST: On this question of the making permanent the tax cuts, the 2017 tax cuts, he says that, you know, without this, the middle class will be hit
harder. And now obviously, the bulk of the tax benefit went to the very wealthy, this is an argument that is getting more difficult to sustain
since we actually have the evidence of those tax cuts.
[16:30:10]
RAMPELL: Yes. If you look at the distributional consequences of those tax cuts when they were passed in 2017, and if they would be extended this
year, pretty much every household or at least every income bucket on average does see lower taxes as a result of these policies than would be
the case if that tax law were allowed to expire.
But the folks at the middle of the income distribution and at the bottom would see a relatively small difference in their taxes if these provisions
were allowed to expire, whereas those at the very tippy top of the income distribution have a lot more at stake.
So it is technically true that it would raise taxes on the middle class and lower income classes if these tax cuts expired, but there is nothing that
says, by the way, that Republicans could not continue those tax cuts as Biden had committed to do, and allow those for higher income classes to
lapse.
Now, it will be expensive no matter what, and that is the other side of all of this, that if they do extend those tax cuts, that is going to put the
federal budget deficit even larger that basically the hole in the budget even wider than it currently is.
QUEST: And it was interesting to note, and we will in the future about it, him basically saying how all that is going to be paid for.
Look, we will talk about that in the months ahead --
RAMPELL: Or isn't.
QUEST: Oh, well, that's very well put.
You and I have got our work cut out for us on that particular one. I am grateful to you for joining us. Thank you.
Now, more than 60 years ago, President Eisenhower made history. He used this phrase in his farewell address to the American people at the end of
his term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DWIGHT EISENHOWER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or
unsought, by the military industrial complex.
Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful
methods and goals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: He was talking then, of course, about The Pentagon and of course, the beltway bandits.
Joe Biden paid homage to that quote with his own address from the Oval Office last night. The president warned of a dangerous concentration of
power in the hands of the wealthy, and harsh words for tech companies in particular.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence that literally
threatens our entire democracy. I am equally concerned about the potential rise of a tech industrial complex that could pose real dangers for our
country, as well.
Americans are being buried under an avalanche of misinformation and disinformation, enabling the abuse of power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Clare Duffy is with me. We know who he is talking about. He is talking about all the biggies -- Google, Microsoft, Elon Musk, Meta. The
name goes on and on -- the list goes on and on, OpenAI.
And many or most of those CEOs will be on the platform at the inauguration, correct?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: That is the plan. Yes, you just listed them, but the CEO of Meta, Mark Zuckerberg; Tesla CEO, Elon Musk; Amazon
founder, Jeff Bezos; OpenAI CEO, Sam Altman; and Google CEO, Sundar Pichai are expected to have prominent seats really at the inauguration.
And I think Biden there is echoing this concern that a lot of Americans have, that these tech companies have become too big, too powerful to be
able to hold them accountable for the harms that their platforms and their technologies can cause.
I mean, just look at the record of Congress over the past four to eight years and the number of hearings that they have held talking about these
technology harms and the risks from this technology, but still haven't found the political will or maybe haven't been able to sort of go without
the lobbying that is happening from this industry in order to pass legislation to hold these companies accountable. And so I think that is
what you're hearing Biden referencing there.
It is interesting, though, because despite some efforts during his time in the White House, you know, mainly it was the FTC trying to pass and create
antitrust movement against these companies. These companies really are coming out of his administration more powerful than ever. They are more
valuable in most cases.
They have more users, and they are starting to sort of create the next big wave, the next revolution of technology with artificial intelligence, which
Biden also said has great risks and great opportunities.
QUEST: This begs also the question and slightly tangentially, as to how much pressure these companies are going to put within the administration to
use what power it has against other regulators elsewhere in the world, because the EU has been notably more successful against these tech
companies.
[16:25:10]
Now, if these companies start calling in chips from the US saying, hey, can you put pressure on the EU; hey, can you tariff the EU on this, that or the
other? Now, we are getting into some really big games.
DUFFY: Yes, it is a really interesting question and I think the timing of Biden making these comments is interesting because just last week, we heard
Meta CEO, Mark Zuckerberg talking about rolling back factchecking and some of their policies around misinformation. But he also mentioned the fact
that he wants to work with the Trump administration to push back on some of what he called the censorship from other governments, probably referencing
the EU there.
And so it seems like they are just saying that outright, that they are hoping to work with the Trump administration, because we've seen the sort
of divergence in how regulation is happening in the EU versus much of the rest of the world, and it seems like these tech companies would much prefer
the lighter hand of the United States, and they would like Trump's help in making that happen around the world.
QUEST: Right. Clare, I am grateful. Thank you very much. Clare Duffy watching over events there. Thank you.
There is finally some relief for the bond market for gilts as yields fall on a light inflation report. It has hardly undone the damage of the last
few months. Yields on the 10-year gilts soared to around 4.7 percent. It echoes the crisis during Liz Truss' brief time as prime minister. You
remember the head of lettuce lasted longer than that British prime minister.
As for the UK economy now, investors have a great deal to worry about. It has barely grown. Core inflation elevated at 3.2 and government borrowing
is high. The pound is at its lowest level for some months, if not years.
Anna Stewart is reviewing the poor economic situation.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, what's been interesting, Richard, is the fact that Keir Starmer, the current prime minister, once accused Liz Truss
of crashing the economy over her budget and more recently, former Prime Minister Liz Truss has accused Rachel Reeves, the new Chancellor, of
bringing the UK economy to the brink of collapse.
So who is right? And let's see if we can actually compare them.
So if we look at the borrowing costs, this is the ten-year bond yield for the UK, we can see quite clearly that it is much higher in the last couple
of weeks than it was back in 2022. So this is Liz Truss, this is Keir Starmer.
However, two points to note. One being just how big the increase was back in 2022, much bigger than here, and also the question of whether the UK is
an outlier.
This is a very clever chart from Soc Gen. Now this compares the difference between the ten-year UK bond yield and the US.
Now this is interesting to see whether or not the UK is going in a different direction to elsewhere. And here it is very clear that right now
UK bond yields kind of in lockstep with the bond yields around the world, particularly the US. Here, 2022, not so much.
And lastly, I am going to show you the currency, because we you really want to know whether an economy is in trouble, you want to see the movement of
the bond yields, which is this red line here again, but also in relation to the pound.
This is the pound here in blue. Now, you can see definitely a bit of a dip here in the pound, much lower here, but also look at that incredible
divergence of bond yields and the pound all at the same time. Don't you love a chart?
QUEST: I do love a chart and I am particularly interested in this chart because when you take, which is my pound, when you take this here and you
look at Sterling, the ability of Sterling to fall, that's the concern here.
STEWART: That was the biggest concern, and actually, I have to say on data today, it is all looking a little bit rosier. You have to remember the US
dollar is also incredibly strong right now.
Currencies always two sides to every story.
QUEST: And you can't fight the dollar if that's the way it went. This is very good.
STEWART: Isn't it nice? Don't you love a chart?
QUEST: I do love a chart.
STEWART: You also like to draw. I know you like to draw.
QUEST: I am not going to try it on that. But gilt, I just wonder with gilts, how high can that go before the pain level starts and it transmits
itself into the mortgage market where people like, I am sorry to say that, like someone like --
STEWART: As someone currently in negotiation --
QUEST: Where is your -- where are you in this? Are you --
STEWART: I am on a tracker right now and I am about to renegotiate. And it is -- this has been an alarming area for me. It has got to get better,
right?
QUEST: As we continue tonight. Thank you, Anna. Thank you very much.
Still to come on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight, wildfire victims in Los Angeles scrambling to find new homes. The efforts to prevent landlords from
price gouging, and the crackdown on real estate speculation, in a moment, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:59]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Richard Quest.
A lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight. We're going to hear from the celebrity real estate agent Jason Oppenheim, who's warning that displaced
Californians are now facing price gouging as they scramble for new accommodation.
The Northern Ireland economy minister tells me how a new charge on visitors to the U.K. could have serious consequences for the region's economy.
We'll get to all of that after the news because this is CNN and on this network, the news always comes first.
Israel's cabinet is expected to vote on Saturday on a ceasefire, and the hostage deal with Hamas. The vote was delayed after the Israeli Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, accused Hamas of reneging on parts of the deal. It's a charge Hamas denies. U.S. officials have said they are
confident the implementation will begin on Sunday as planned.
Blue Origin, the space venture founded by Jeff Bezos, has launched its first rocket into orbit. The new Glenn Rocket is likely to compete with
those designed by SpaceX. NASA already says it plans to send orbiters to Mars aboard the new Glenn Rocket. Blue origin will also help deploy
Amazon's internet satellite.
The director, David Lynch, has died at the age of 78. He was best known for his stylized, surreal dramas like the 1986 film "Blue Velvet" and
television drama "Twin Peaks." Mr. Lynch revealed last year he was suffering from emphysema. His family has confirmed that he has died.
In Los Angeles, firefighters are trying to take advantage of the lighter winds as they battle a series of deadly wildfires. The L.A. County sheriff
says there are now 31 missing persons, reports related to the fires people have not yet been allowed to their damaged homes, and officials say it will
take at least another week before it's safe to return.
[16:35:02]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTIN CROWLEY, CHIEF, LOS ANGELES FIRE DEPARTMENT: We understand your desire to return to your community. However, significant safety and
infrastructure issues remain including downed power lines, broken gas lines, hazardous materials and unsafe water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, thousands of people living there displaced by the fires are facing the daunting prospect of finding new housing in very, very difficult
times, and the scramble has pushed prices up in some cases by as much as 20 percent. So much so that the Los Angeles city council has passed new
measures designed to protect residents from evictions and price gouging. The governor of California, Gavin Newsom, has also signed an executive
order to prevent real estate speculators from making unsolicited cash offers for fire victims' property.
Jason Oppenheim, whose real estate company is known for selling some of California's most expensive properties on the show "Selling Sunset," says
his company will help fire victims for free of find new homes. Jason -- free of charge. Jason is with me now.
Sir, I'm grateful for you. First of all, give me an overview as you can of the situation amongst those areas where you do buy and sell homes. Some of
the most expensive. How devastated are those areas? Total?
JASON OPPENHEIM, PRESIDENT AND REAL ESTATE BROKER, THE OPPENHEIM GROUP: The Palisades is probably 75 percent gone. Malibu took a significant hit. And,
you know, really we've received dozens and dozens of e-mails and phone calls from people that are in desperate situations. You know, the hotels
are full and there's just not enough supply out there for people to find properties, certainly not in the communities or even near the communities
where they grew up.
QUEST: In this environment, I mean, the awful part of market forces is that people put prices up in scarce markets. It's economics 101. Now, in this
case, of course, government and authorities have to step in because people are in extremists in this case, aren't they? What sort of examples have you
seen of people being price gouged?
OPPENHEIM: Yes. So, again, in a normal market, you know, we're all for capitalistic enterprise and you can take advantage of supply-demand curves,
but not after a natural disaster. And there's a penal code in place and the governors, you know, issued a state of emergency. So right now it's illegal
to charge more than 10 percent above pre-disaster fair market value. And unfortunately, as much as we've put the word out there, there are numerous
landlords that seem set on gouging the very victims that need our help the most right now.
I've had very difficult -- there's many examples where I've seen people that have gone to a property that was asking maybe $10,000 a month. I had a
client that offered actually $20,000 a month, and then the landlord countered him at $23,000 a month. Now we're hoping that people can
understand that this is illegal, and maybe they just didn't know any better. But that, you know, we have a good district attorney, and he's
going after these people now.
QUEST: The longer term -- there's a short term, which is you're talking about, the longer term is that there's many of these properties, the
unscrupulous will try and come in and buy up some of the most desirable real estate. Now, I guess on the other side of this, you know, you have a -
- you do have a lot of sophisticated people who are well aware of the value of their physical property, but these are not normal times, and people can
easily be duped into taking less.
OPPENHEIM: Well, I applaud the governor for making that illegal to offer below market, but we're actually seeing that already. I had a phone call 15
minutes ago from somebody asking me if I could assist him in putting in offers on land in Malibu, and I hung up on him. I mean, the idea right now
that these people are suffering, they may not be insured, they may be in financial stress, and then you're going to go and take advantage of that
situation.
I mean, I think that most people have done the right thing, but there are some bad apple landlords and there are some bad apple investors out there.
QUEST: Can I just ask you on this insurance question? Because I know, you know, first of all, you've got people who were underinsured, but you've
also in California, as indeed we have in New York to an extent, they are uninsurable. Many companies, insurance companies pulled out of the very
markets that are now devastated. You know, I've been covering economics for a good few years, and I don't see any easy or obvious way out of that
particular problem.
OPPENHEIM: Well, right now we can't even get insurance. I've got many escrows that are simply frozen because the insurance market is completely
frozen. The only insurance actually in California is the California Fair Plan that's available, and that caps you out at $3 million.
[16:40:04]
I do hope that we -- I know a lot of people are blaming the insurance companies, but the truth is we didn't allow insurance companies in
California to raise rates and they were losing money. So of course they pulled out. What we need to do is allow them to raise rates reasonably. We
need to include or mandate fire suppression technology, and we need to work with the insurance companies to bring them back.
QUEST: Excellent answers and excellent policies throughout.
Sir, I'm grateful for your time tonight. I know you've got busy days ahead. Thank you. We'll talk more to find out how things are going. Thank you for
taking time.
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, coming up, a community in Uganda is bringing back indigenous farming techniques to restore rivers and improve crops.
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QUEST: In Western Uganda, a critical lake that supports the livelihoods of millions of people has suffered from overfishing. So today on "Call to
Earth," CNN's Victoria Rubadiri visits one community that's turning to the traditional laws of their elders to keep the lake healthy and they're using
indigenous crops to improve their harvests.
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VICTORIA RUBADIRI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fishermen's boats rock back and forth in the afternoon waters of Lake Albert in Northern Uganda.
The freshwater lake supports a population of nearly 2.5 million people here.
However, Lake Mwitanzige, as it was originally known before the colonialists renamed it Lake Albert, holds far more sentimental and
spiritual value to the people that live off of it.
(Voice-over): They are known as the Bagungu people, and here in Uganda, they are one of the few communities that observe the ancient wisdom that
governs how they treat and protect their environment.
[16:45:02]
BARNABUS BAGADIRA KAKULE, CUSTODIAN (through translator): We had specific days and seasons for fishing. We look at the moon. When it comes, they go
to fish. When it disappears, they stop fishing. In our traditional laws, we don't catch young fish. But now even the fully grown ones aren't there
because the fish stocks are reducing.
RUBADIRI: Such laws that were meant to stop harmful activities like overfishing were abandoned during colonialism and deemed backward. In
recent years, though, the elders who were the only custodians of these customary laws began slowly returning to them and even passing them down to
the next generation. These elders drew these ecological maps that detail the Bagungu's landscapes and ecosystem.
The women farmers have managed to restore the indigenous seeds their ancestors used to plant. They found them to be a far more sustainable
option to the hybrid varieties most smallholder farmers plant. The natural pest control methods used generations ago have proven to still be relevant
today and effective in ensuring healthy crop harvests.
DORCAS KANDOLE, FARMER (through translator): The current generation is not aware of this ancient knowledge. Many are not interested in farming, but we
are passing down the knowledge to those who will learn.
RESSON KANTAI DUFF, DIRECTOR, PORTFOLIO FUNDING, MALIASILI: You find in many spaces that indigenous knowledge is being codified a lot more. We're
looking at cultures that are working on new regenerative agricultural practices that are based on some of that wisdom. The seeds that they are
saving and sharing among them, for example, are things that are now being written about and they are being put into a much more serious body of work
that is allowing indigenous people to find their space and their visibility.
RUBADIRI: Back in 2020, the Bagungu's customary law practices were codified in Ugandan law, a first of its kind adoption of indigenous knowledge by an
African government.
Dennis Tabaro has walked this journey over the last seven years, helping the Bagungu revive their ancient wisdom. Their efforts are now paying off.
DENNIS TABARO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AFRICAN INSTITUTE FOR CULTURE AND ECOLOGY: Some animals, we are told, have come back about 60 years ago. When
we came here, those rivers were dry. So when the communities and the elders started performing these rituals and ceremonies, then the rain came in
time. We can see some of the rivers.
RUBADIRI: The ancient knowledge of the Bagungu has certainly stood the test of time, surviving colonialism and most recently the discovery of oil in
their region. And now, with the ever present threat climate change poses to their ecosystem, the Bagungu are even more determined to keep their culture
of conservation alive.
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QUEST: Please let me know what you're doing to answer the call. The hashtag, as always, "Call to Earth."
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[16:50:46]
QUEST: The British government is already proposing to raise the entry fee if you will. The ETA, electronic authorization fee, that is introduced over
a week ago now. Originally, it was going to be 13 pounds. Now, apparently the government is going to try and raise it to 16 pounds. Ten was where it
was set originally. Now it looks like it might be 16 or $19, $20 and passengers in transit through London, which is vastly, of course, important
at Heathrow Airport, will be exempt.
So this is the way it looks at the moment. But the reality is these ETA or ESTA fees are quite well known overall, and indeed more and more travelers
and British travelers are paying them when you go. Fr instance, let's take the United States, ESTA. Everybody knows about ESTA. It's been around
years. Well, ESTA is $21 now to get an ESTA to visit the United States. The European Union fee will be around $7 for the E.U. equivalent. Expect that
to rise.
They've got enough problems just getting the thing through the door. And it's $44. It's somewhere along there. If you look at China, if you take the
map overall, this is where it becomes significant in terms of the United Kingdom and the European Union. For travelers, the ESTA fee, if you will,
is an inconvenience. But arguably for Northern Ireland here it spells real trouble. This is how the logic goes.
The government there is worried the fee will discourage tourism. At the moment, if you are a tourist coming from the Republic of Ireland, no
problem. No fee. But if you are coming from Germany, Sweden, the United States, anywhere else, and you're coming via Ireland, then you would have
to pay the fee. You get the idea, because of course you'd be a third country.
Conor Murphy is Northern Ireland's economy minister and the minister is with me now.
I see the argument, sir. I see the argument. But let's just take an American visitor, an American visitor coming first of all to the republic
is going to have to pay a fee there. And your problem is that they will then have to pay another fee when they come to Northern Ireland. Is that
right?
CONOR MURPHY, NORTHERN IRELAND ECONOMY MINISTER: Well, we are in the rather unique position that 70 percent of our international visitors actually, who
are coming to Northern Ireland, actually come through Dublin because that is the airport with the most international travel. So for those who come to
visit the island of Ireland, they can land and go around the island of Ireland.
But if they go to cross the border into the British jurisdiction, then they have to pay an additional fee. And for many tour operators that I've spoken
to in the United States and in other parts, they say that this is an additional burden, which means that some travelers may just opt to stay in
the south of the border, in the south of Ireland and not travel northwards. And of course, tourism and the growth in tourism has been a big part of our
success story since the Good Friday agreement and our international peace process.
QUEST: Can I just --
MURPHY: The worry is that this development in Britain will do damage to the potential of our tourism industry.
QUEST: Right. But the principle of an ESTA or an ESTA is now well- established across multiple jurisdictions. You're right. You raise a specific unique situation for Northern Ireland. What would your preferred
solution be?
MURPHY: Well, we asked the British government to consider the option, firstly not to introduce this. The British government tend to take
decisions which affect us without any recourse to consultation with us. Brexit is a very clear idea where we opted to stay in the European Union.
We've taken out against our wishes. But in relation to this, we asked them not to introduce this for tourists.
We also asked them to consider a seven-day waiver in terms of people who are traveling into Ireland, traveling north of the border into Northern
Ireland, and not traveling onwards to Britain.
QUEST: Right.
[16:55:03]
MURPHY: We put a number of practical solutions to the British government, and they have adopted some practical solutions in relation to other matters
of interest to them in this area. But they haven't acceded to our requests, and we are very concerned that it will do real damage to our tourism
industry.
QUEST: Let's say, is it really that much of a big deal, an extra 15 bucks or so on a trip? If you're spending thousands on a holiday, and I mean,
let's face it, a pint of beer, a round of drinks for you and your family will cost more than the ESTA fee.
MURPHY: Well, it's the implications of people who haven't filled it in, who find themselves on the other side of the border. I mean, you can go, if you
travel into the south of Ireland, if you go from Dublin to Donegal, which remains within the southern jurisdiction, you could cross the border three
or four times to make that one journey. So people may inadvertently find themselves on the wrong side of the border.
There is no hard barrier on our border. There's no real defining marks to say whether people have crossed or haven't crossed. But particularly for
tour operators, who then the burden of responsibility falls on them to ensure that everybody that they're taking in their coach across the border
has this procedure resolved and filled in. And that places an additional burden, which may mean they opt not just simply to cross the border and
stay in the southern jurisdiction.
QUEST: I've got it. I'm grateful to you, sir. We'll talk more as this comes in. Believe me, sir, as I'm sure you're aware, there'll be many more
problems before this thing is fully up and running in any degree both in the E.U. and the U.K. I'm grateful to you, sir. Thank you.
We will take a "Profitable Moment" after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
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QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment."
I have a certain sympathy with the minister there on Ireland's situation. It is a unique situation overall, but by and large, these ESTAs and travel
authorizations, they are here to stay. And provided the prices don't get too high, you're just going to have to get used to them. And by the way,
the U.S. started the whole thing with its ESTA many years ago.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. I'll see
you tomorrow in London.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
In this hour, more heartbreak out of California as those evacuated from wildfires are told it's going to be at least another week before they can
return to their homes or what's left of their homes.
Are investigators any closer to figuring out what started these blazes? Were any of them arson? We'll ask --
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