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The Situation Room
North Korea Lets Detained Americans Speak; What Does North Korea Want?; British P.M. Wants New Anti-terror Powers; Crisis in Ukraine; Militia's Pool Party in Libya
Aired September 01, 2014 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Dana. Happening now, detained Americans speak out. North Korea pulls aside its veil of secrecy and gives CNN rare access to three Americans it's holding.
And new plans to fight ISIS; Britain's prime minister wants tougher anti-terror laws to block jihadists from traveling to and from Iraq and Syria. Should the U.S. do the same?
And militia pool party: Libyan fighters frolic in the pool at the abandoned U.S. embassy compound.
What are they doing there in the first place? Wolf Blitzer is on assignment. I'm Brianna Keilar. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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KEILAR: Our top story, three Americans held by North Korea issue a plea for help. North Korea eased its extraordinary secrecy enough to give CNN's Will Ripley unprecedented access to the three detainees, one of whom is serving hard time at a labor camp.
Will Ripley was working on several stories in North Korea when officials there suddenly gave him the chance to meet with the Americans. Here's his report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Bae, Will Ripley with CNN.
RIPLEY (voice-over): This is a moment we never expected during a CNN trip to North Korea, officials take us to a secret location for a surprise interview with Kenneth Bae, the American missionary who's serving 15 years hard labor for what North Korea call a Christian plot to undermine the government.
RIPLEY: Can you tell me about the conditions at the camp?
KENNETH BAE, AMERICAN MISSIONARY: Condition in labor camp is I'm working eight hours a day, six days a week and working agricultural work to other hard labor that is required to do every day.
RIPLEY: Do you think you're being treated humanely?
BAE: Yes.
RIPLEY: And your message to your family?
BAE: Well, I'm sure they're very worried about my health at this time and even though right now, last month and a half my heart's been or so not -- it's been failing. So right now, what I can say to my family and friends is to continue to pray for me and also ask them to continue an effort on getting me released here.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Bae's been in North Korea for almost two years. Two other Americans were arrested separately in April.
We were pulled off our regular schedule and brought here to a building in Pyongyang where we were told that we had precisely five minutes with each of the detainees. They're held in separate rooms and have no contact with each other. American Matthew Miller admitted to tearing up his visa and seeking asylum in North Korea. Now he wants out.
RIPLEY: What's the bottom line about your situation here and your message that you want to put out?
MATTHEW MILLER, AMERICAN HELD IN NORTH KOREA: That my situation is very urgent, that very soon I'm going to trial and I would directly be sent to prison. I think this is -- this interview is my final chance to push the American government into helping me.
JEFFREY FOWLE, AMERICAN HELD IN NORTH KOREA: I'd like to thank you guys for being here.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Jeffrey Fowle, a father from Ohio, confessed to leaving a Bible behind during a tourist trip, considered a covert act by the North Korean government. He was arrested on his daughter's birthday.
RIPLEY: And your message to your family?
FOWLE: Message is I'll come home as soon as I can. My family is the biggest thing on my mind right now. I've got the wife and three elementary-age school kids that depend on me for support and my mother-in-law is staying with us, too. So there's six of us in our household. And I'm gone.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Right now Fowle is in a hotel, but that could quickly change if he's found guilty later this month.
FOWLE: I'm good for the time being but I need to let people know that I'm getting desperate. I'm getting desperate for help.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Each man says they're getting humane treatment. They're pleading for the United States to send a special envoy to secure their release. Three Americans held in North Korea, waiting and hoping that, someday, they'll go home -- Will Ripley, CNN, Pyongyang.
(END VIDEOTAPE) KEILAR: Will Ripley is pulling together more of his material and
we'll be hearing more details from him in the days ahead.
What's in it for North Korea? That's a big question here.
Why is the rigidly Communist nation now letting CNN and the world hear from these American prisoners?
CNN's Brian Todd has been looking into that.
What have you found, Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, analysts say the North Koreans view these three men as bargaining chips, that it's in the North Koreans' interest to make these cases high profile and try to extract concessions from the U.S. government. We have to warn viewers some of you may find some images in this story disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): Kenneth Bae asks his family to pray for him, says he works eight hours a day, six days a week in a labor camp. In an interview with CNN's Will Ripley, Bae spoke about his failing help.
BAE: Well, I do have sleep disorder right now and back pain, severe back pain and also poor circulation is not doing so well. So I get -- I get numb and I have tingling in hands. And it's been very difficult sleeping at night and also working in the field every day.
TODD (voice-over): Bae's family says he has high blood pressure, diabetes, kidney stones. Jeffrey Edward Fowle speaking fast and nervously said he was desperate to be released and Matthew Todd miller looked robotic, said he deliberately committed his crime when he tore up his visa and asked for asylum this year.
MILLER: I prepared to violate the law of the DPRK before coming here.
TODD: Why now? Why would the North Koreans put these guys out for interviews now?
ELLEN KIM, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: First of all, their motivation always behind this interview has always been to gather U.S. attention and then try to pave a way for the higher level dialogue with Washington.
TODD (voice-over): While the North Koreans may view the three Americans as criminals, experts say they likely also see them as important bargaining chips.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As an American there, you can be considered a very high value target if you are detained by the government.
TODD (voice-over): Analysts say the North Koreans are likely angling for an envoy with huge stature to come to North Korea and take these men out, much like Bill Clinton did in 2009 when he won the release of two journalists. Could Bae's case prompt such an event?
He's been held almost two years, was sentenced to 15 years hard labor. Bae says he goes back and forth between a hospital and a labor camp. Conditions in North Korean prison camps thought to house more than 100,000 people were revealed in a U.N. human rights report in February.
The report had drawings from former prisoners depicting skeletal, starving people eating snakes and rats. Emaciated human remains left for rats to eat. Kenneth Bae may not be in one of those facilities. He says he's the only prisoner in the camp where he's held.
BAE: I've been the only prisoner in the camp for the last year and a half.
TODD (voice-over): Analysts say Kim Jong-un's regime doesn't want Bae to get more seriously ill or die in their custody.
What's their goal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their negotiating ploy with the U.S. is to try to get to us agree to nuclear arms control, to accept them as a nuclear weapons state, which we can't do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: But the White House and the State Department have responded to CNN's interviews with the three men, both entities saying they're doing all they can to secure their release.
The State Department requesting that the North Koreans actually pardon Kenneth Bae and grant him special amnesty and immediate release so that he can reunite with his family and seek medical care, Brianna. They separated Bae's case a little bit from the other two.
KEILAR: Yes. That is fascinating. Also you see these interviews and you parse every word. Something that I think struck many people was that Fowle and Miller said something that Bae didn't. Tell us about that.
TODD: Very significant there. Bae has already been convicted and he's been sentenced but Jeffrey Edward Fowle and Matthew Todd Miller both warn in the interview that they have trials coming up and they say -- they both hinted that if nothing's done after their trials things could get much worse for them. Fowle, in fact, said he's in a desperate situation right now, maybe sending a signal out that, hey, please do something soon.
After these trials, you don't know what's going to happen to me.
Miller and Fowle both said that; Bae did not.
KEILAR: Brian Todd, thank you so much .
Let's get reaction now. Joining me by phone is Terri Chung, the sister of detained American Kenneth Bae.
Terri, I know you are so concerned about your brother.
What was your reaction as you saw this interview with him?
TERRI CHUNG, KENNETH BAE'S SISTER: It was you know, it was a big concern to me. You know, he doesn't look like himself. He is -- he doesn't look well and he looks like he's under a considerable amount of strain. So we're really worried about him.
KEILAR: It looked as if perhaps he's lost weight even just in some of the pictures that we've seen less than a year ago. Detail some of your health concerns about him.
CHUNG: Yes, I think just in the last month, he says he lost 15 pounds. Just even from the pictures we've seen, he looks like he's lost a significant amount of weight and so we're worried about that.
KEILAR: He has diabetes.
Is that right?
He has high blood pressure. He's talking about tingling.
Obviously in his extremities that would relate to diabetes?
CHUNG: Yes. Diabetes and I think he has -- he's talked about lung and liver problems in the last letter. Those are completely new ailments. So I think those are all really alarming to us. His health is the first and foremost concern for us. His health is poor, yet he's doing eight hours of hard labor every day. I think that's the biggest concern.
KEILAR: One of the things that is noticeable about the U.S. government response is the singling out of your brother here.
What do you think about that?
And do you think the American government is doing enough to secure your brother, Kenneth Bae's release?
CHUNG: We are thankful for the ongoing efforts. I know they're working hard behind the scenes.
The fact remains Kenneth is still there and he's the only one to have served a significant amount of time in labor camp. He has already been sentenced to 15 years of hard labor and, you know, besides his poor health, he's back in the labor part for the third time.
As you heard him say in the interview, is he completely isolated and his health is failing. So I think there's a renewed kind of urgency to his situation. I hope that is, I think, warranting some of that attention.
KEILAR: Your brother and Jeffrey Fowle both referenced sending over a special envoy, Jeffrey mentioning specifically perhaps Bill Clinton, like we saw with the two female American journalists. He also mentioned perhaps George Bush. What do you think the government should do?
Should they send over a high profile special envoy as North Korea so clearly wants them to do?
CHUNG: I don't think I'm in a position to debate who or what it's going to take. But I do know the message has been consistent, that Kenneth cannot be pardoned on his own. He needs U.S. government intervention and that the United States needs to request a pardon by the North Korean government.
So I'm not really in a position to say who or what that's going to take. But I do hope that it is time to seek that kind of pardon and that's our desperate plea to our government officials and to the DPRK officials to accept the plea and pardon him.
KEILAR: What else is your message to the North Korea government to Kim Jong-un?
What do you want them to consider as they are currently holding your brother?
CHUNG: We would plea for mercy. He has confessed his crimes. He has served two years of a sentence. He has acknowledged his crime. We've apologized. He's apologized. Please show mercy and let him come home to his family and let him seek the medical attention that he needs.
KEILAR: Terri Chung, thank you so much for being with us. We know this is a very, very difficult time for you and your family.
CHUNG: Thank you.
KEILAR: Terri Chung, the sister of Kenneth Bae held in North Korea.
And next, what is behind North Korea's extraordinary move to let CNN talk with the three detained Americans?
I'll be speaking with someone who's played a key role in contacts with the Communist north.
And also a crackdown on ISIS. Britain's prime minister wants to let police seize passports and take other measures to stop jihadists.
Should the U.S. do the same?
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: Our top story, North Korea drops its cloak of secrecy and allows CNN direct access to three detained Americans, one of whom is serving a 15-year prison term. All have issued appeals for help.
Let's explore further now with Tony Namkung. He has tremendous expertise in this area, and he's worked behind the scenes to facilitate a number of U.S. missions to North Korea.
Tony, thanks for being with us. And really, I think the biggest question here, and we're all wondering, is what's the motivation for the North Koreans here? Why orchestrate these interviews in the first place and why now?
TONY NAMKUNG, NORTH KOREA EXPERT: Well, I think we have to focus on what's going on in the real arena, which is not the arena of public television but the arena of back channel negotiations and talks.
For many years now, the two sides have been communicating with one another, the two sides meaning the U.S. and North Korean governments, trying to make some headway on the nuclear issue from the U.S. standpoint, and from the North Korean standpoint, trying to execute a peace treaty with the U.S. and other parties, as well as reach a more normal relationship through the exchange of embassies and ambassadors and so forth.
And in that arena, the U.S. has repeatedly offered to send its special human rights coordinator or envoy from North Korea, Robert King, to go and fetch Kenneth Bae. Going back to before the other two were detained earlier this year. North Korea will have nothing of that unless it's tied to the resumption of official talks where the two sides' agendas can be addressed.
KEILAR: Do you think there will be a resumption of official talks, and what would be the order of a release? Is this -- is this something that the U.S. is even amenable to or should pursue?
NAMKUNG: Well, I think the U.S. needs to be nudged just a little bit. It's gone -- it's been quite forward leaning, actually, in this respect. But if it would go a little bit further and, in these channels indicate that the official talks, indeed, will resume if these three prisoners are released.
Now, obviously, that's a very sensitive position to take. You don't want to take it too lightly. But if that action can be taken, I think that we would see not only the prisoners being released, but we would see the resumption of officials talks and hopefully some way to address the nuclear problem that North Korea has posed.
KEILAR: As you watched these three interviews with these three men, you must have been looking through every word they were saying. No doubt they were coached as to what to say, and certainly the questioning was restricted, as our Will Ripley has told us. What struck you from what they all said in their interviews?
NAMKUNG: Well, I think they indeed were coached and given guidelines as to what to talk about: that their conditions are good. Mr. Fowle even mentioned that his quarters are suite like in his hotel. They've got medical assistance and they're being fed well. Kenneth Bae, unfortunately, has lost a lot of weight, probably because he's out working the fields every day.
The -- what struck me is that, in addition to that, the authorities want the three detainees to let the U.S. government know that their release hinges on the resumption of official talks between the two governments.
KEILAR: And that they want, obviously, a high-profile envoy to come.
When he -- Kenneth Bae in particular, the U.S. government seems to be treating him a little differently in their reaction. He's clearly loft weight. His family is concerned about his health. He does have a history of diabetes, they tell us. What is the calculation for North Korea if his health were to get worse? How much is that a concern to North Korea?
NAMKUNG: Well, one reason for having medical assistance nearby is to ensure that that does not happen because, of course, that would spoil the whole scenario of using these detainees as political negotiating pawns. So I don't believe that that will happen.
The special envoy does not need to be at a presidential level or a former presidential level. We have to remember that Ambassador King, the North Korean human rights envoy himself rescued a prisoner not too long ago, a couple of years ago when he went to Pyongyang. So he would do -- he would fit the bill.
KEILAR: Yes.
NAMKUNG: The key to it is really can the official talks resume or not?
KEILAR: All right. And we'll be watching for that. Tony Namkung, thank you so much for being with us.
NAMKUNG: Thank you.
KEILAR: Now coming up, a new plan to fight ISIS. Britain's prime minister calls for tougher anti-terror laws and a crackdown on travel by jihadists. Should the U.S. follow suit?
Plus, fierce fighting and a reported tank attack on an airport. Ukraine's leader is now warning of a full-scale war with Russia.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: There are growing concerns that foreign fighters will return home from Iraq and Syria and launch terror attacks. Now, just days after Britain boosted its threat level, Prime Minister David Cameron wants a major new crackdown aimed at ISIS and other jihadist groups.
CNN justice correspondent Pam Brown has details -- Pam.
PAM BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, as concern about ISIS grows, British Prime Minister David Cameron laid out a new measure today to combat the problem, giving police more power to seize passports of British-born extremists.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): British Prime Minister David Cameron calls for a sweeping new anti-terror measure.
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Passports are not an automatic right.
BROWN: Cameron told lawmakers he wants police to have temporary power to seize the passports of British citizens trying to travel to support ISIS.
CAMERON: We will introduce specific and targeted legislation to fill this gap by providing the police with a temporary power to seize a passport at the border, during which time they'll be able to investigate the individual concerned.
BROWN: The U.K. government raised its terror threat level on Friday from substantial to severe. That means a terrorist attack is highly likely, but there's no intelligence to suggest an attack is imminent. As for Britain's closest ally, U.S. officials say there are no plans to issue a terror alert.
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The most detailed intelligence assessment that I can offer from here is that there is no evidence or indication right now that ISIL is actively plotting to attack the United States homeland.
BROWN: But the fear is that westerners, including Brits and Americans, could return home to launch attacks after fighting for ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
CAMERON: It is abhorrent that people who declare their allegiance elsewhere are able to return to the United Kingdom and pose a threat to our national security.
BROWN: British authorities estimate 500 Brits have joined Islamist terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq, a statistic brought home to Cameron when a man with an apparent British accent took part in American James Foley's execution.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: The threat is actually much greater in the U.K. And that's why you're seeing a raft of new measures in the U.K. now to try an tackle this problem. They're very, very worried that ISIS may try and retaliate in some form of way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And U.S. officials say about 100 Americans have joined Islamist militants in Syria. About a dozen of them joining ISIS.
In a statement, the National Security Council wouldn't comment on the specific new domestic measures in the U.K. announced today but says the U.S. is in constant touch with the U.K. about any threat -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Pam Brown, thank you so much.
And let's go in depth now. Joining me, CNN London correspondent Max Foster; CNN national security analyst and former CIA officer Bob Baer; and Tom Rogan, who is a contributor to "The National Review" and columnist for London's "Daily Telegraph."
Max, to you, let's listen to more of what prime minister Cameron said today about the new measures that he's proposing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON: We will introduce new powers to add to our existing terrorism prevention and investigation measures including stronger locational constraints on suspects under stipends (ph) -- either through enhanced use of exclusion zones or through relocation powers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So first off, Max, what do the measures mean?
Also, you're hearing a lot of verbal pushback there.
What is that all about?
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Yes, there's some history here. He's effectively talking about control orders.
So if you've got a suspected jihadi within the U.K., how would you deal with it? How do you stop them engaging in jihadi practices and speaking to other jihadis?
Well, what you do is you restrict their movements, restrict their access to communications. And in the past, whenever they tried to do that, the British government, the courts have blocked them, saying you have to have grounds in order to do this to someone. And they won't give the evidence because it's intelligence. So that's been blocked by the courts before.
But they feel that there's got to be some restriction on movement. Otherwise you're not going to stop this problem. So you've got the passports issue.
But they're already in the U.K., what they're saying is what Cameron wants to do is say you can't go to certain areas and, actually, we can relocate you as well. That's all he's saying there, but it's very controversial. And you can see the reaction in Parliament there to that.
KEILAR: It's interesting, Tom, we've been talking about this a bit. There is sort of I guess some disinterest in a way among a lot of the public in Britain.
Are they as concerned? I mean, you hear the prime minister really sounding an alarm, but is that resonating with people?
TOM ROGAN, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Well, I think the issue here is that the British people have for a long time, whether it's terrorism coming from Ireland, the IRA and actually Islamist extremism become accustomed to the rhetoric from government about threats.
The problem is of course that now with ISIS, the rhetoric reflects reality and that as days go on and as the threat grows, people are going to have to come to grips with the fact that having 500 or more British citizens or nationals fighting with this group poses a really big security challenge.
KEILAR: What does it take to convince people that this is a real serious threat?
ROGAN: I think obviously the media reporting reflects that threat. I mean, the imagery that we've seen, James Foley I think was a shock to a lot of people.
But at the same time, what ISIS is doing across the region, the obvious destabilizing impact does impress on to people.
Now I think with the British government really reflecting some pretty stringent measures are putting it to the front of the agenda as soon as Parliament comes back. Over time, people will begin to take notice of this and I think are realizing this really is a serious issue.
KEILAR: So Bob, a number of stringent measures here, pulling passports.
Is this something that the U.S. might replicate?
BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I don't think we'll do that, but we can do more for a start, we need Turkey to start giving us lists of all Americans who's enter that country and disappear for long periods of time. That's the major ingress into Syria and Iraq. Same thing with Lebanon.
I think the FBI should give it more authority and more people to look at data analytics, cross reference those with travel, start bringing people in.
Let's not forget the Boston bombing which fell between the cracks. He was clearly a suspect and the FBI didn't bring him in. We should learn from those lessons and we're going to have to do more.
The problem is as been noted is we've cried wolf so many times about Al Qaeda is that the American public is a bit jaded. What scares me is there would actually have to be an attack before they wake up.
KEILAR: And that seems to be the case as well with the British public. I wonder though, to that point, how big of a threat? Is this an imminent threat? Is this something that is a ways off? Is it impossible to tell at this point? How big of a threat though do you think it is to the U.S., these ISIS fighters, Western ISIS fighters?
BAER: Well, Brianna, let me pass on what I hear from people doing tactical intelligence on the ground, on the border with Mexico, at the airports. They keep on telling me over and over again, ISIS is here. They're capable of attacking.
No, we don't know of an imminent planning for a specific attack but it's here. And they could hit us at any time. This is a warning I've been hearing for the last couple of months. They're very serious about it and they keep repeating it. I realize that in Washington that's not the party line. But on the ground, people are worried.
KEILAR: Yes, and as you said, it's sort of in a way it's become maybe the boy who cried WOLF and people aren't responding to it as much. But they should, you say.
Bob Baer, thank you so much.
Max Foster and Tom Rogan, thank you to all of you.
And Labor Day marks the beginning of the fall campaign season. In Kentucky, U.S. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell's reelection effort has been rocked by the sudden departure of his campaign manager. The man's name is Jesse Benton. And he resigned and issued a blistering denial of what he calls unfair and politically motivated rumors about his role in past campaigns.
Benton was chairman of former Congressman Ron Paul's 2012 race for president. Last week an Iowa politician admitted taking money from the Paul campaign in exchange for his endorsement.
And there is breaking news in Ukraine. Amid the damage, bloodshed and grief, its president now is warning of a full-scale war with Russia. We'll have a live report on that next.
And later, these people are supposed to be guarding an abandoned U.S. embassy. Doesn't really look like guarding, does it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: We're following breaking news in Ukraine, whose leader is warning a full-scale war with Russia is getting nearer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR (voice-over): The U.N. says at least 2,500 people are dead in the fighting between government forces and Russian supported separatists. Today we are seeing reports of a Russian tank attacking a major Ukrainian airfield.
Another report -- another airport, I should say, in Donetsk already is silent and abandoned with damage everywhere.
CNN's Diana Magnay is in southeast Ukraine with the latest -- Diana.
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brianna. We heard from NATO today that it plans to set up a very high readiness force in the words of the secretary-general which will consist of a few thousand soldiers who can deploy at very short notice should there be any threat presumably to NATO's East European member states.
We're very concerned about Russia's military aggression in Ukraine and the possibility that the same thing might happen on their soil. We've just heard from the national security council spokesman Kaitlin Hayden (ph) that the U.S. is behind this move, supports this move but it's stressing that this is simply a defensive posture and not a provocation. We'll have to see whether NATO -- sorry; whether Russia sees it that
way.
I am in the city of Donetsk today and so I want to move away from the battlefield and the military discussions and show you a bit of the human suffering that I bore witness to today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAGNAY (voice-over): Petro Poroshenko will have a hard time winning back hearts and minds in this city as the people of Donetsk sweep up the debris of their homes and livelihoods. They are hardened against a president they say is killing his own people.
"We are Ukrainian, but they kill us," this man says, "so we probably need our own country because these people in Kiev, they are not brothers for us."
The shells hit these homes days ago, but the tears are still fresh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We live on the ground. It was so hard for two weeks, especially for 27, 28, 29th. But only today it's quiet. Sorry, sorry, I need to go.
MAGNAY: Two people were killed outside this block of flats last Wednesday. One of them was a 50-year-old woman, the other a 34-year- old woman. Her husband, who won't talk to us, he says he's in shock, managed to make it down to the cellar with their little child. But she just didn't have the time. And this is a story that repeats itself over and over in dozens of apartment blocks with civilians being killed by the constant shelling around Donetsk.
MAGNAY (voice-over): The city's trauma hospital is filled with the civilian wounded, shrapnel embedded in the flesh and bone of market sellers' legs, the broken limbs of pensioners far too old to run.
"There was one war and this is the second war," this old lady tells me. "I was born in 1940 in World War II and I will probably die before this war is over."
Valentina Popova (ph) in the door ward lost her leg and her arm to indiscriminate artillery shells. Switching to the Ukrainian language, she makes a heartrending plea to the president.
"We used to dance, sing, do everything in Ukrainian," she says. "Poroshenko, Mr. Poroshenko, please listen to us. Why don't you understand your people? Be a man, be human. Please stop your aggression, stop this war."
But there is little sign of that; this once thriving city is now half empty, its railway station bombed. The forces unleashed by this conflict greater perhaps than Mr. Poroshenko can control.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MAGNAY: Today, of course, Brianna, is the 75th anniversary of World War II. Ukraine's defense minister said today that a great war was coming to Europe, the likes of which have not been seen since World War II.
Well, I would categorize that really as hyperbole, very exaggerated. And when you see this kind of language from both sides, Russia comparing the siege of Donetsk where I am now to the siege of Leningrad during World War II. Well, I'm here. You've seen the pictures and however terrible it is, it is, of course, nowhere near that.
An indication really, Brianna, of how the language, the heated rhetoric used on both sides is almost as dangerous as what is going on on the battlefield -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Diana Magnay, thank you so much for your reporting.
Joining us now on the phone to talk more about this is Michael Bocherque (ph), the spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
And you're hearing, Michael, both sides in this, evoking the memory of World War II. We heard Diana reporting there
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER, GREAT BRITAIN: We will introduce new powers to add to our existing terrorism prevention and investigation measures, including stronger locational constraints on suspects under tee pins (ph) either through enhanced use of exclusion zones or through relocation powers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So first off, Max, what do the measures mean?
Also, you're hearing a lot of verbal pushback there.
What is that all about?
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Yes, there's some history here. He's effectively talking about control orders.
So if you've got a suspected jihadi within the U.K., how would you deal with it? How do you stop them engaging in jihadi practices and speaking to other jihadis?
Well, what you do is you restrict their movements, restrict their access to communications. And in the past, whenever they tried to do that, the British government, the courts have blocked them, saying you have to have grounds in order to do this to someone. And they won't give the evidence because it's intelligence. So that's been blocked by the courts before.
But they feel that there's got to be some restriction on movement. Otherwise you're not going to stop this problem. So you've got the passports issue.
But they're already in the U.K., what they're saying is what Cameron wants to do is say you can't go to certain areas and, actually, we can relocate you as well. That's all he's saying there, but it's very controversial. And you can see the reaction in Parliament there to that.
KEILAR: It's interesting, Tom, we've been talking about this a bit. There is sort of I guess some disinterest in a way among a lot of the public in Britain.
Are they as concerned? I mean, you hear the prime minister really sounding an alarm, but is that resonating with people?
TOM ROGAN, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Well, I think the issue here is that the British people have for a long time, whether it's terrorism coming from Ireland, the IRA and actually Islamist extremism become accustomed to the rhetoric from government about threats.
The problem is of course that now with ISIS, the rhetoric reflects reality and that as days go on and as the threat grows, people are going to have to come to grips with the fact that having 500 or more British citizens or nationals fighting with this group poses a really big security challenge.
KEILAR: What does it take to convince people that this is a real serious threat?
ROGAN: I think obviously the media reporting reflects that threat. I mean, the imagery that we've seen, James Foley I think was a shock to a lot of people.
But at the same time, what ISIS is doing across the region, the obvious destabilizing impact does impress on to people.
Now I think with the British government really reflecting some pretty stringent measures are putting it to the front of the agenda as soon as Parliament comes back. Over time, people will begin to take notice of this and I think are realizing this really is a serious issue.
KEILAR: So Bob, a number of stringent measures here, pulling passports.
Is this something that the U.S. might replicate?
BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I don't think we'll do that, but we can do more for a start, we need Turkey to start giving us lists of all Americans who's enter that country and disappear for long periods of time. That's the major ingress into Syria and Iraq. Same thing with Lebanon.
I think the FBI should give it more authority and more people to look at data analytics, cross reference those with travel, start bringing people in.
Let's not forget the Boston bombing which fell between the cracks. He was clearly a suspect and the FBI didn't bring him in. We should learn from those lessons and we're going to have to do more.
The problem is as been noted is we've cried wolf so many times about Al Qaeda is that the American public is a bit jaded. What scares me is there would actually have to be an attack before they wake up.
KEILAR: And that seems to be the case as well with the British public. I wonder though, to that point, how big of a threat? Is this an imminent threat? Is this something that is a ways off? Is it impossible to tell at this point? How big of a threat though do you think it is to the U.S., these ISIS fighters, Western ISIS fighters?
BAER: Well, Brianna, let me pass on what I hear from people doing tactical intelligence on the ground, on the border with Mexico, at the airports. They keep on telling me over and over again, ISIS is here. They're capable of attacking.
No, we don't know of an imminent planning for a specific attack but it's here. And they could hit us at any time. This is a warning I've been hearing for the last couple of months. They're very serious about it and they keep repeating it. I realize that in Washington that's not the party line. But on the ground, people are worried.
KEILAR: Yes, and as you said, it's sort of in a way it's become maybe the boy who cried WOLF and people aren't responding to it as much. But they should, you say.
Bob Baer, thank you so much.
Max Foster and Tom Rogan, thank you to all of you.
And Labor Day marks the beginning of the fall campaign season. In Kentucky, U.S. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell's reelection effort has been rocked by the sudden departure of his campaign manager. The man's name is Jesse Benton. And he resigned and issued a blistering denial of what he calls unfair and politically motivated rumors about his role in past campaigns.
Benton was chairman of former Congressman Ron Paul's 2012 race for president. Last week an Iowa politician admitted taking money from the Paul campaign in exchange for his endorsement.
And there is breaking news in Ukraine. Amid the damage, bloodshed and grief, its president now is warning of a full-scale war with Russia. We'll have a live report on that next.
And later, these people are supposed to be guarding an abandoned U.S. embassy. Doesn't really look like guarding, does it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: We're following breaking news in Ukraine, whose leader is warning a full-scale war with Russia is getting nearer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR (voice-over): The U.N. says at least 2,500 people are dead in the fighting between government forces and Russian supported separatists. Today we are seeing reports of a Russian tank attacking a major Ukrainian airfield.
Another report -- another airport, I should say, in Donetsk already is silent and abandoned with damage everywhere.
CNN's Diana Magnay is in southeast Ukraine with the latest -- Diana.
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brianna. We heard from NATO today that it plans to set up a very high readiness force in the words of the secretary-general which will consist of a few thousand soldiers who can deploy at very short notice should there be any threat presumably to NATO's East European member states.
We're very concerned about Russia's military aggression in Ukraine and the possibility that the same thing might happen on their soil. We've just heard from the national security council spokesman Kaitlin Hayden (ph) that the U.S. is behind this move, supports this move but it's stressing that this is simply a defensive posture and not a provocation.
We'll have to see whether NATO -- sorry; whether Russia sees it that way.
I am in the city of Donetsk today and so I want to move away from the battlefield and the military discussions and show you a bit of the human suffering that I bore witness to today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAGNAY (voice-over): Petro Poroshenko will have a hard time winning back hearts and minds in this city as the people of Donetsk sweep up the debris of their homes and livelihoods. They are hardened against a president they say is killing his own people.
"We are Ukrainian, but they kill us," this man says, "so we probably need our own country because these people in Kiev, they are not brothers for us."
The shells hit these homes days ago, but the tears are still fresh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We live on the ground. It was so hard for two weeks, especially for 27, 28, 29th. But only today it's quiet. Sorry, sorry, I need to go.
MAGNAY: Two people were killed outside this block of flats last Wednesday. One of them was a 50-year-old woman, the other a 34-year- old woman. Her husband, who won't talk to us, he says he's in shock, managed to make it down to the cellar with their little child. But she just didn't have the time. And this is a story that repeats itself over and over in dozens of apartment blocks with civilians being killed by the constant shelling around Donetsk.
MAGNAY (voice-over): The city's trauma hospital is filled with the civilian wounded, shrapnel embedded in the flesh and bone of market sellers' legs, the broken limbs of pensioners far too old to run. "There was one war and this is the second war," this old lady tells
me. "I was born in 1940 in World War II and I will probably die before this war is over."
Valentina Popova (ph) in the door ward lost her leg and her arm to indiscriminate artillery shells. Switching to the Ukrainian language, she makes a heartrending plea to the president.
"We used to dance, sing, do everything in Ukrainian," she says. "Poroshenko, Mr. Poroshenko, please listen to us. Why don't you understand your people? Be a man, be human. Please stop your aggression, stop this war."
But there is little sign of that; this once thriving city is now half empty, its railway station bombed. The forces unleashed by this conflict greater perhaps than Mr. Poroshenko can control.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MAGNAY: Today, of course, Brianna, is the 75th anniversary of World War II. Ukraine's defense minister said today that a great war was coming to Europe, the likes of which have not been seen since World War II.
Well, I would categorize that really as hyperbole, very exaggerated. And when you see this kind of language from both sides, Russia comparing the siege of Donetsk where I am now to the siege of Leningrad during World War II. Well, I'm here. You've seen the pictures and however terrible it is, it is, of course, nowhere near that.
An indication really, Brianna, of how the language, the heated rhetoric used on both sides is almost as dangerous as what is going on on the battlefield -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Diana Magnay, thank you so much for your reporting.
And joining us now on the phone to talk more about this is Michael Bociurkiw, the spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
And you're hearing, Michael, both sides in this evoking the memory of World War II. We heard Diana reporting there that it is some hyperbole but you tell us how bad things are on the ground there.
MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, SPOKESMAN, ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE: Things are very bad on the ground. Thanks for having us again, Brianna. We had monitors today in -- throughout the Donbas region and Luhansk and Donetsk, and also Mariupol.
And, you know, as much as Diana has said about the human cost in Donetsk which we have also observed is a very, very bad situation involving in Luhansk closer to the Russian border. Their government -- the Ukrainian government officials, they are warning of a humanitarian catastrophe due to the lack of water and electricity. And there, Brianna, about half of the 420,000 people have fled the city because conditions are so bad. Very bad situation throughout the region.
KEILAR: Vladimir Putin said the talks in Minsk with Ukrainian President Poroshenko were positive. That's a quote from him. Positive was how he described it. But then you also have him calling for statehood for eastern Ukraine.
How do you I guess figure out these mixed messages?
BOCIURKIW: Well, we're on an observation mission and what we did is we report exactly what we see on the ground. And indeed there was a meeting of the so-called tri-lateral contact group in Minsk today with the participation of the OSCE. These are very, very important venues for the representatives of the different countries to talk to the rebel groups and try to find a peaceful solution.
But, you know, the situation as we've been observing, as you know, well over the past weeks has been deteriorating day by day by day. So what we're asking for is for checkpoints to be removed, for arms to be put down, and most importantly, for people to get together and discuss a peaceful solution because, as I said earlier, the humanitarian cost on this is very, very high.
KEILAR: We're starting to hear from Western nations talking about arming Ukrainian rebels. The U.S. is not committed to this. Others have. From what you have seen on the ground, how does that change the equation, if at all?
BOCIURKIW: Well, a couple quick things there. There's -- indeed we have seen as recently as Saturday that the Ukrainian army is very, very unarmed compared to the rebels. They brought (INAUDIBLE). And then also, there is a -- we observed a protest in Kiev on the weekend where mothers said their sons were fighting haven't had leave since way back in April.
Now another quick thing, Brianna, is I met with senior Canadian government officials last week. And it's clear that Ukraine has moved quite high up on the policy agenda. And they're looking at translating their support by adding more monitors to our mission.
Canada is a participating state of the OSCE. The U.S. as well. So it might be a good way for the U.S. to translate its support, as well.
KEILAR: And the U.S. will be meeting with NATO nations. President Obama, we'll be seeing if he takes that message, as well.
Michael Bociurkiw, thank you so much.
And just ahead, how members of a Libyan militia apparently are passing the time while they're supposed to be guarding an abandoned U.S. embassy.
And at the top of the hour, an extremely rare conversation with three Americans who are being held in North Korea.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KEILAR: U.S. officials are trying to clarify a video posted by a Libyan militia. Its members are supposed to be guarding the abandoned U.S. embassy in Tripoli but guarding isn't the first word that comes to mind when you see these pictures of the annex there of the embassy.
CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Roberts joining us from London.
Break this down for us, Nic. What's going on here?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Clearly a party. Clearly having fun. This is an Islamist militia that's part of -- you know, pretty much in control of Tripoli took control of the international airport recently.
From what we understand, these are either the guards or friends of the guards who were allowed into the compound. We've also seen photographs inside some of these residential embassy compound buildings. We've seen bedrooms. We've seen living areas. We've seen a gymnasium. Some windows are broken. A few books have been moved around.
What we're being told from the -- from a spokesman for the Libyan National Congress is this isn't an attack and it's not a ransacking. The U.S. ambassador, Deborah Jones, she has also said this is not ransacked, the chancery not ransacked, the main embassy, that this is an annex of the embassy.
But also we're told by somebody familiar with this compound that this swimming pool area, these houses and the residential area are also used as office-type areas so it really begs the question, you know, we're not seeing what's happening every day. What's going on the rest of the time and what really are these militias able to find inside the rest of the buildings.
KEILAR: Yes. Certainly if it's that secure, maybe not an attack. Certainly an affront, I would say.
Nic Robertson, thank you so much.
And coming up an extremely rare look at three Americans detained in North Korea. Hear what they're saying about their plight.
Also dramatic new pictures of the fighting inside Syria as the U.S. pounds ISIS targets in Iraq.
And we also have a new high-tech tool that police will be using in Ferguson, Missouri.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: Happening now. Plea for help. CNN obtains the only television interview with three American men being held in North Korea and they used this very rare opportunity to send a message to President Obama. Massive assault. Government bombs fall on a civilian neighborhood
while nearby the U.S. launches new airstrikes on ISIS terrorist forces.
Body cams. Dozens of recording devices donated to a force reeling after a controversial shooting.
