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Trump: 'There is Blame on Both Sides' in Charlottesville. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired August 15, 2017 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TAPPER: There isn't a debate about it.
That's it for "THE LEAD." I'm Jake Tapper. I'm turn you over to Wolf Blitzer.
[17:00:14] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news. Blaming both sides.
In a stunning surreal moment, President Trump turns an infrastructure event into a rambling rant, blaming both sides for the violence in Charlottesville, saying the white supremacist rally was attacked by what he calls the alt-left.
Waiting for facts. The president defends his delay in responding to the violence and failure to immediately condemn the racist rally, saying his initial response was a fine statement, and he was simply waiting for the facts before going further.
Not backing Bannon. President Trump says his embattled chief strategist, Steve Bannon, is a good person and not a racist but says, quote, "We'll see" whether Bannon stays on in the White House.
And attacking McCain. Even as he deals with his floundering agenda, another blow with his latest diatribe. The president directly blames Senator John McCain for the failure of his health care effort.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: Breaking news. In a stunning display, the president just fanned the flames of the Charlottesville violence by saying there is blame on both sides, asking why there is no focus on what he calls the alt-left and saying counter-protesters attacked the white supremacist rally. He refused to condemn the alt-right, saying, "You had people that were very fine on both sides."
And in fact, earlier, the president shared a social media post from an alt-right activist and conspiracy theorist, which the former head of the NCAA calls a racial dog whistle.
Then the president shared a cartoon showing a man labeled "CNN" being hit by a train labeled "Trump." And that violent image came just three days after a car slammed into a crowd protesting the racist rampage in Charlottesville. A white supremacist faces a second-degree murder charge in that incident.
So far, only five arrests have been made in the Charlottesville violence. Witnesses are still being sought for the bloody beating of an African-American man by a white supremacist mob.
And there's growing fallout for the president's failure to quickly condemn the violence. Four top business executives have now quite his manufacturing council, some issuing stinging rebukes in the process. The president has hit back, calling them grandstanders who can easily be replaced.
I'll talk with Republican Congressman Will Hurd of the Intelligence and Homeland Security Committees. And our correspondents, specialists and guests all are standing by with full coverage of the day's top stories.
But we just witnessed a truly extraordinary display by the president. Not backing down at all in the face of very sharp criticism and instead going on the attack.
Let's go to our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta. Jim, first of all, what do you make of that amazing presidential appearance?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the real President Trump came forward today. He went back to his initial explanation for the events that unfolded in Charlottesville over the weekend, blaming all sides for the violence that claimed the life of that woman there, Heather Heyer.
He did, at one point, express appreciation to the mother of that victim saying he did -- he was appreciative of the statement that Heather Heyer's mother put out, thanking him for what he had said in all of this.
But Wolf, the president clearly went back to his earlier explanation for why he thought the violence unfolded in Charlottesville over the weekend. Put aside what the president said yesterday when he condemned white supremacists and neo-Nazis by name. Today, we pressed the president -- reporter after reporter pressed the president -- on whether or not he puts the neo-Nazis and white supremacists on the same level as the counter-protesters who were in Charlottesville on Saturday.
The president, during this event that went off the rails here in Trump Tower, put all of those sides once again in the same basket. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What about the alt- left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt?
Let me ask you this. What about the fact they came charging -- that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.
You had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that. But I'll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit, and they were very, very violent.
I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups, but not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there, because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.
So -- excuse me. And you take a look at some of the groups and you see, and you'd know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you're not. But many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
So this week it's Robert E. Lee. I notice that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder: is it George Washington next week, and is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?
But they were there to protest. Excuse me. You take a look the night before. They were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: So you heard the president there, Wolf, at the very end of those remarks in that clip we just played, really echoing some of the complaints of the white nationalists who were showing up to protest on Saturday, complaining about the removal of the statue dedicated to Robert E. Lee there, and going on to say, "Well, what's next? Are we going to start taking down monuments for George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?"
Obviously, a lot of people in this country, Wolf, would take exception with the president of the United States putting Robert E. Lee and George Washington and Thomas Jefferson on the same level. But he was doing that time and again during these remarks here.
And I'll tell you, one of these things that we noticed as all of this was unfolding is that his new chief of staff, General John Kelly, was sort of off to the side, watching all of this unfold. General Kelly was brought into the White House to bring things under control and sort of bring order to a very disorderly White House. But as you can see, Wolf, you can control the staff, but when a president comes out and makes those kinds of remarks, it's pretty clear you can't control a situation like that.
The other thing we should point out, the other piece of news that came out on all of this, is that the president declined to stand behind his chief strategist, Steve Bannon. He was pressed a couple of times as to whether or not Bannon, who has been coming under heavy criticism in recent days for his very far-right views. He used to run the web site Breitbart. Whether or not Steve Bannon would be staying on board. But the president essentially said we're going to have to wait and see, that he doesn't know yet. He described Steve Bannon as a good person and not a racist. But he wasn't sure, he told reporters, as to whether or not Steve Bannon is going to stay on.
But really, Wolf, those are -- those are two side shows to, really, what is the larger story here. And that is the president, given the chance, once again, to explain his views, really took a stance here that I think is just going to be astonishing to Americans all across the country. The president of the United States putting white nationalists and neo-Nazis, even David Duke, on the same level as the counter-protesters who were there, blaming all of them for the violence that led to the death of Heather Heyer.
That is obviously going to be something that's going to cause a lot of discomfort inside the Republican Party just as many people in that party were starting to back away from that criticism that they leveled against the president over the last couple of days after his initial statement in Charlottesville. The president, as the fire was starting to die down on this issue, threw a tanker trunk full of gasoline on top of it, Wolf.
BLITZER: It was pretty amazing, because it was in such marked contrast to what he said yesterday. Yesterday, he was reading a very carefully prepared statement from a teleprompter. He issued that statement. He condemned the white supremacists, the neo-Nazis, the KKK. He didn't make any suggestion that both sides were to blame for the violence that erupted.
Today, he walked out. He made a statement on infrastructure. We had been told earlier he wasn't even going to do any questions following that statement. But he stuck around for maybe 15 or 20 minutes. And that got very, very tough.
Have you ever seen anything like this before, Jim?
ACOSTA: I don't think so, Wolf. Ad I have to tell you, I was here in Trump Tower on January 11 when that news conference goes off the rails. The president has an issue, and I don't think this is being opinionated or offering, you know, something -- a subjective take on all of this.
The president has an issue when he is challenged on something that he feels deeply personal about. He doesn't seem to have the ability to reign things in and to speak -- you know, a lot of people say, well, you know, politicians are no talk and all action. The president says that from time to time. But a skilled politician knows when to say when.
And President Trump demonstrated here in the lobby of his own building. He couldn't feel more at home than he could feel here at Trump Tower. He has talked about it time and time again. This is his home. And yet, he felt very comfortable espousing some views that are very -- I mean, I would say they're almost white nationalist light. In that he was complaining, bemoaning the removal of Confederate statues across the country and asking whether or not -- whether or not George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are next.
[17:10:23] You can go to just about any history professor at any college in America. You could go to any history teacher at any high school in America, and they will tell you the reason why these Confederate statues are coming down across the country, Wolf -- and remember, Nikki Haley took down -- his U.N. ambassador took down the Confederate flag at the state house in Columbia, South Carolina. Those symbols of the Confederacy cause so much hurt, cause so much pain for so many Americans across the country that it is really understandable to most level-headed, rational Americans that these kinds of monuments, these kinds of symbols eventually just need to come down.
And to compare them to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, I think -- I think that is just also going to be taken, Wolf, as a sign that the president perhaps needs a refresher course, needs to go back to History 101. Because I think those kinds of remarks are just going to be deeply, deeply unsettling.
And keep in mind, in just the last several minutes, David Duke, the former grand wizard of the KKK, put out a statement thanking the president for what he said, praising the president for what he said.
I asked the president during these remarks here today, "Didn't you know David Duke was at this rally?" He said he didn't know that David Duke was at that rally. But it's the easiest thing in the world, Wolf, to condemn Nazis, to condemn white supremacists, to condemn the Klan and David Duke. And once again, he just -- he fell short of that. Ad I think a lot of Americans across the country -- Republican, Democrat, straight down the middle -- are going to be disappointed with what they heard today, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes. It was amazing just to watch it unfold, going back not only to what he said initially on Saturday but doubling and tripling down on those thoughts.
Jim Acosta, I want you to stand by. I want to get some analysis from our specialists. David Chalian, our political director. Let me start with you.
We were all -- we were all pretty stunned, just watching that back and forth.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. This is a defining moment of the Trump presidency. I think that is without a doubt, no matter what happens from here on out. This will be a defining moment, because Donald Trump left that elevator, walked behind that lectern with the presidential seal on it, and equated Nazism with other things and chose deliberately not to, once again, completely denounce this.
That means that we're in a whole new world. You and I spend our lives as reporters frying to get every side of the story, speaking to people on all sides of political controversies on Capitol Hill policy debates, find out what -- that does not apply here. This is not left. This is not right. This is not a typical political debate, even though it deals with the president of the United States. This is a president who has lost touch with the American people in
dramatic fashion. And this will be a defining moment of his presidency.
BLITZER: And this was, Gloria, as I said, it was a totally marked contrast of what we heard only yesterday.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It is clear that the president was force fed what he had to say yesterday. Instead, what we heard on Saturday was the real Donald Trump. And he's been chafing about this. And -- and he wanted -- he doesn't want to admit a mistake. He can't admit a mistake.
And so what he did in the end was he whitewashed the events in Charlottesville as a protest with, as he said, some very fine people on both sides. This was a neo-Nazi rally. There is no way to call this simply a protest and to -- and to whitewash it, which is what we heard the president do, standing in the podium with the seal of the office of the presidency. I think it was a stunning moment.
I agree with David. I do not know that there is any way now for the president to even to attempt to walk this back.
BLITZER: Let me get Don Lemon into this conversation. Don, how did you see it?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm saddened, Wolf. I'm sitting here thinking as we were about to go on the air, "What am I going to say to Wolf Blitzer? What am I going to say to my colleagues? What am I going to say to the country and the world who is watching?"
This is -- this is a sad moment for the country. And I think it was an awful moment for the person who's supposed to represent the highest office of the land.
I mean, there today you saw the real Donald Trump, proving all of his critics right in that moment. Everyone was sitting there watching, saying, "Here we go. His true colors are coming out."
To equate a group that is a protest group, two protest groups. Yes, they're both protest groups, and they're talking about Antifa or anti- fah, however you want to pronounce it, calling them the alt-left. Well, that group protests fascism, so they were there protesting fascism. Maybe their tactics weren't exactly right. All groups like that, political groups, rights groups, protest groups, it's messy.
[17:15:16] But there is a difference between the two groups. One is a Nazi, white supremacist group. What they want to do in their hearts is extinguish people who look like me and who look like you, Wolf. Jewish people, black people, even women. They don't think that we're equal to them.
The other is a protest group, protesting a political and a racist movement. I'm not saying either of them -- I'm not saying that that group, all of their tactics are right, but they were there protesting hate in America. And in order to have this conversation, and the president doesn't seem
to be very aware of the history of this country. You have to be aware of the history of this country. And we have to discuss the history of this country. And the history of this country is that it came out of racism. It came out of slavery. People who look like me did not come over on the Nina, the Pinta, or the Santa Maria. And those people who are there want to keep people like me enslaved. And that's why they were protesting.
And to talk about the removal of monuments, Robert E. Lee High School. Can you imagine having to go to a school that has the name of your oppressor on it? Or walking into a building and seeing a Confederate flag, or a Confederate flag hanging at a government building?
Imagine if you're a Jewish person in Germany, and you had to go to Hitler High School or Goebbels Elementary School or Middle School? That would be completely offensive to you on the deepest level. And that's how people of color feel in this country when we have to deal with figures like Robert E. Lee and Confederate flags. It is no different than flying a swastika. It is insulting. The president is ignorant of history. He does not know context. He should be ashamed of himself. He should go back to school and get an elementary education on how this country started and about protest groups and how this country works and who he represents and who he should represent.
BLITZER: David Axelrod, you're with us, as well. I'm really anxious to hear your reaction.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, you know, at times like this, Wolf, you expect the president of the United States, you want the president of the United States to exercise some moral authority, to exercise some leadership. We saw Bill Clinton do it after the bombing in Oklahoma City. We saw George W. Bush do it when we were attacked on 9/11. We saw Barack Obama do it several times including Charleston, to bring out -- to speak to the better angels of our nature, to speak to our values as a country.
But instead of standing up, what we saw today was a president melt down. Gloria was absolutely right about this is the real Donald Trump. Yesterday, we saw a video, a presentation that had all the authenticity of a hostage video, in which he grudgingly condemned the white nationalists, neo-Nazis and so on. But today, he seemed to be absenting them or at least people who are associated with them.
This was a demonstration that was called as a pro-white demonstration. This was a present -- a demonstration that was called to celebrate symbols of segregation and the Confederacy. And it drew, not surprisingly, white nationalists, neo-Nazis, in their full regalia.
Now, the president says, well, there was violence propagated by counter-protesters there. What if there were no counter-protesters there? What if there were no counter-protestors there? Would he not have had words of condemnation for that group, or should he not have who were there with a permit to demonstrate hate speech, to demonstrate hateful ideology? You know, this was a very low moment. He is basically... LEMON: Who were the people -- who were the people that were armed to the teeth? There was more fire power, it looks like, on the white racist, supremacist side than there were with the police officers.
Can you imagine a group of African-Americans with that much fire power, carrying semi-assault weapons in the middle of a city street for a protest that went wrong? There would be outrage.
It is unbelievable that the president of the United States can stand on a national stage and equate the two, saying again there was violence on both sides, and both sides are responsible. It is -- it is ignorant. It is disgusting, and it is unbelievable.
BLITZER: It is -- what an amazing, an amazing performance.
I want to bring in Republican Congressman Will Hurd of Texas. He's a member of the House Intelligence and Homeland Security committees.
Congressman, I want you and all of our viewers here in the United States and around the world to listen to a bit more of what President Trump just said at this news conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[17:20:09] TRUMP: The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement. But you don't make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don't know the facts. Before I make a statement, I need the facts. So I don't want to rush into a statement.
Unlike you and unlike the media, before I make a statement, I like to know the facts.
Frankly, people still don't know all of the facts. It was very important. Excuse me. Excuse me. It was very important to me to get the facts out and correctly. There's still things that people don't know.
What about the alt-left? They came charging at the, as you say, the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt?
Let me ask you this. What about the fact they came charging -- that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.
You had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent, and nobody wants to say that. But I'll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit, and they were very, very violent.
I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee. So -- excuse me. And you take a look at some of the groups, and you
see and you'd know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you're not, but many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
So this week it's Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?
But they were there to protest. Excuse me. You take a look the night before. They were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you against the Confederacy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How concerned are you about race relations in America, and do you think things have gotten worse or better since you took office?
TRUMP: I think they've gotten better or the same. Look, they've been frayed for a long time, and you can ask President Obama about that, because he'd make speeches about it. You had a group on one side, and you had a group on the other. And they came at each other with clubs; and it was vicious and it was horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch.
But there is another side. There was a group on this side -- You can call them the left. You've just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either.
And -- and if you reported it accurately, you would say that.
You had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest. Because you know, I don't know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn't have a permit.
So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. There are two sides to the country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Some of what the president just said at that remarkable news conference.
Congressman Hurd, as a Republican -- You are a Republican member of the House of Representatives -- but more important, as an American, are you proud of the way the president of the United States handled this situation today?
REP. WILL HURD (R), TEXAS: Absolutely not, Wolf.
You know, if there's any kids watching the show, racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism, it's not OK. It's not OK. You can't support it in any form or fashion.
And I wasn't there. And this is the first I'm hearing about this press conference, by the way, Wolf. I thought we were going to be talking about North Korea. But if you're showing up to a Klan rally, you're probably a racist or a bigot. And saying that -- saying anything other -- the images I saw were skinheads and neo-Nazis beating up women and trying to poke people with -- with flag poles. It's not OK. This is -- this is unacceptable.
And again, for those watching, you know, I think the outrage across the political spectrum about this is maybe the thing that ultimately unites us.
[17:25:04] And Wolf, what's wild for me is -- and I just finished 27 town halls in the last seven days. I call it D.C. to D.Q. I go meet (ph) as many Dairy Queens as I can and talk to folks. And the thing I learn is way more unites us than divides us. Those are the things that we -- we should be talking about and making sure that we continue this experiment called America. And yes.
BLITZER: You know what's really alarming, Congressman, is so many white supremacists, white nationalists who are out there will watch the president's comments today. They'll come away believing that he still identifies with their cause. He had a responsibility, certainly, yesterday. He blamed the KKK, the neo-Nazis, the white supremacists, but today he's basically saying there is blame on both sides, which is what he said originally on Saturday. He had a unique opportunity here to fix this. But you believe he failed.
HURD: Yes, he did. And look, I don't think anybody should be looking at getting props from a grand dragon of the KKK as any kind of sign of success. You know, this is -- this is also the definition of terrorism, right, is politically-motivated violence against noncombatants. And that's what happened, and that's what transpired in Charlottesville. And we should be trying to talk about and understand, why are some of these groups getting radicalized? Right? How do we prevent this from happening? Why do people feel that it's OK to publicly talk about racism, bigotry and anti-Semitism?
Our law enforcement, whether it's federal, state and local, do they have the resources to deal with this kind of problem? This is where the conversation should be. And the leader of -- nobody should doubt whether or not the leader of the free world is against racism, bigotry, neo-Nazis and -- and anti-Semitism.
BLITZER: What I was hoping -- I assume you were, as well, Congressman -- we would hear from the president a short statement in which he would say, "I don't want their support. If they think I want their support, the white supremacists, the KKK, the neo-Nazis, I don't want their support. They may think they're my -- in my camp. I don't want them." We did not hear that from the president, and that was disappointing. I assume you agree?
HURD: Yes, look, that would have been probably better than what was said. And I think it may be good to stick to the -- stick to the teleprompter and not go off the cuff.
BLITZER: Let me play a little bit. This is some video of what actually happened in Charlottesville. This is video from VICE, from our sister network, HBO, just a little clip to remind our viewers and remind you, Congressman, of what was going on. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHANTING)
GRAPHIC: Friday 10 p.m., University of Virginia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will not replace us. You will not replace us. You will not replace us. Jews will not replace us. Jews will not replace us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will not replace us. You will not replace us. You will not replace us. Jews will not replace us. Jews will not replace us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will not replace us. You will not replace us. You will not replace us. Jews will not replace us. Jews will not replace us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blood and soil, blood and soil, blood and soil. Blood and soil, blood and soil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blood and soil, blood and soil, blood and soil. Blood and soil, blood and soil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blood and soil, blood and soil, blood and soil. Blood and soil, blood and soil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets. Whose streets? Our streets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No KKK! No fascist USA! No KKK! No fascist USA!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No KKK! No fascist USA! No KKK! No fascist USA!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No KKK! No fascist USA! No KKK! No fascist USA!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. So there you saw the white supremacists. They were shouting, "You will not replace us. Jews will not replace us. Blood and soil, blood and soil. Whose streets? Our streets."
Those were really disgusting word we heard there. And it should have been so simple to simply say, "I condemn this. I don't want their support. These are very bad people."
Yet we didn't really hear that in the president's news conference today. He was equating both sides, the protesters and the counter- protesters. And I want you to speak personally, Congressman, as someone who has faced prejudice in your life. Tell us how that felt to see that.
HURD: Well, here's the thing, Wolf. My dad's black. My mom's white. They met to L.A., moved to San Antonio in the early '70s. And my dad was a traveling salesman, and he wasn't allowed to stop at every restaurant or go to every hotel room. Right?
And three decades later, their youngest son is a member of Congress. And that's because, you know, the 23rd District of Texas where I represent is filled with people that believe in the content of people's character; that we have come a long way. And, you know, most -- I would almost say almost all Americans believe that racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism, there's no room for that in this great country that we all call home. And, you know, it's -- it's unacceptable, and it's sad.
BLITZER: What's your message? What would you say to the president, Congressman, right now?
HURD: Apologize. And that racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism of any form is unacceptable. And the leader of the free world should be -- should be unambiguous about that.
BLITZER: Thank you so much, Congressman, for your very, very powerful and strong words. We really appreciate your joining us on this really important day. Congressman Will Hurd of Texas. Appreciate it very much.
HURD: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: David Chalian, it's not very often you hear a Republican member of the House of Representatives from Texas so severely criticize the Republican president of the United States.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: And he did so powerfully and personally, in personal terms, as well. We're also seeing all those Republicans that came out on Saturday, that were disappointed with the president's remarks -- Senator Orrin Hatch, Marco Rubio -- they are now starting to come out. They're retweeting their tweets from Saturday to remind the president, Marco Rubio, saying, "Let's reup this. You need to call this what it was. A terrorist act by white supremacists."
Just as there are not both sides or many sides to Nazism that was on display in Charlottesville, there are also not both sides or many sides to what President Trump said today. There's only one side. It was wrong. It wasn't presidential. And he has got to begin to try to find a way to heal this. He's shown no inclination to do that. Other than his aides getting him to read a teleprompter on Monday, every one of his actions and instincts, in his words, in his repeats -- retweets, have shown zero inclination to try to actually create consensus, healing space for the country to begin to move forward.
LEMON: Because he said -- he said what he believes today, David. That's -- that was him. That's what he believes. And he may not understand that.
Listen, I asked Donald Trump, in no uncertain terms, two or maybe three times whether he was racist, whether he was bigoted, whether he was anti-Semitic, whether, you know, he had any other problem with bigotry. And he told me, "No. I'm the least racist person." If he's not the least racist person, he's the most racist friendly person that I've ever seen. This is what he believes.
So you can call it what they want. People can call it what they want. But the evidence shows that he certainly is racist adjacent, and he certainly is sympathizing with Nazis and white supremacists today.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And Wolf, he was talking about people innocently and legally protesting. And the video that you showed was not people innocently and legally protesting. They were -- they were chanting, "Jews will not replace us" and other repugnant things.
And what we saw from the president, in order to kind of explain his original stance, and by saying, "Oh, I need all the facts." Well, we know this is a president who doesn't need all the facts, that he tweeted the attack in the Philippines was a terror attack when it wasn't a terror attack before he had all the facts.
I'm wondering what the facts are that he has been looking at and that have suddenly illuminated his view back to what it was on Saturday. I'm not quite sure what that is. And I'd like to hear from his Department of Justice or somebody else about whether they think that these two things are, in fact, equivalent, because of course, we know they are not.
LEMON: "Blood and soil" is right out of the Nazi playbook.
BORGER: Exactly.
LEMON: It's right out of the Nazi playbook.
BORGER: Exactly.
LEMON: And Van Jones has been pointing this out. Ivanka converted so that she could marry Jared, who is a Jew, a religious Jew. And so he has a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son-in-law, and he has Jewish grandchildren. And if he sees that video that just aired on our show, he should be ashamed of himself. And if I certainly was Ivanka or his child, I would go in and have a long talk with my father about the words he uttered at that podium at Trump Tower today.
BLITZER: You know, David Axelrod, because the chanting we just heard in that very powerful video, "You will not replace us," that's referring to black people are not replacing white people. "Jews will not replace us." We know what that's referring to. "Blood and soil." We know that's an old Nazi slogan. "Whose streets? Our streets." That is white people. White people's streets.
[17:35:14] And I don't understand how the president can say that there is equal condemnation, equal responsibility on both sides when we hear a lot of people marching through Charlottesville uttering those horrendous words.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, we should point out a few things. He said, "I needed to gather all the facts." Melania Trump tweeted before he did. Many others tweeted before he did. So what facts did they not have when they tweeted?
And the fact is, he said what he said. So much of this -- you know, I don't pretend -- I can't crawl into Donald Trump's head and explain the things that he does. But one thing's clear. He does not apologize. He does not -- you know, he is a -- he's a runaway truck. And there's no brakes, and there's no reverse. And once he's committed to something, the more he gets attacked, the more he pushes back. And you saw some of that today.
But he's heading to a cliff here. And what you see among some of these Republicans, or many of these Republicans, people of good will speaking out. Because they're jumping out of the car right now; they're jumping out of the truck. They see where it's going.
Now, Will Hurd said, "I hope the president will apologize." That would be a truly historic event. We haven't seen it yet.
BORGER: Somebody has to take control of this truck that's careening to the edge, because somebody has to calm the country down. That's the job of the president.
AXELROD: Absolutely.
BORGER: That's normally what the president does in a situation like this. And David knows this better than anybody.
But this president, instead of calming the country down, is riling it up.
CHALIAN: That's why...
BORGER: And what will happen? Who is there to essentially take charge and say, "OK, guys, we need to calm down. We need to have a conversation in this country" and do the job that the president has not been able to do?
CHALIAN: He's abdicated...
LEMON: Certainly not the people around him. Certainly not the people around him, because they keep making excuses for him. It's certainly not the people who come on television and make excuses for him. They won't calm him down. They keep saying, "Oh, he's not this. He's not that." And he is, again, proving to be exactly what every critic has said about him.
CHALIAN: But why is this -- why are we saying this is somebody else's responsibility to calm him down? He's an adult grown man. He's the president of the United States. He should be able to get control of this.
BORGER: But he can't.
CHALIAN: And instead, he's abdicating.
LEMON: He can't help himself, David.
CHALIAN: I asked yesterday, can you lose the moral authority of the presidency on Saturday and gain it back on Monday? The answer is clear today. You cannot. He has lost the moral authority of the presidency.
BORGER: But what happens, though -- and I agree with you -- but what happens, though, if we see people in this country afraid, more, you know, violence? What if we see that? Who is going to be there now? We look to the president to do that. And who will be there in his place? I just -- it's an important question.
BLITZER: I want to play another excerpt of what the president said, just a little while ago, that has so out outraged a lot of people already. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You had a group on the other side and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.
But there is another side. There was a group on this side -- You can call them the left. You've just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that's the way it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On both sides, you said there was hatred; there was violence.
TRUMP: I do think there's blame -- yes, I think there's blame on both sides. You look at -- you look at both sides. I think there's blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it. And you don't have any doubt about it either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. Let me get Don Lemon to weigh in. Blame on both side. We just saw the tape. On one side, you have these white supremacists marching with their torches in a powerful moment, screaming, "You will not replace us," referring to African-Americans. "Jews will not replace us. Blood and soil. Whose streets? Our streets." You heard that chanting. Did you see the blame for this on both sides? LEMON: No, I don't. And listen, I'm not making excuses for whatever
Antifa, or the anti-protesters did. I wasn't there. I don't know what they did. But I know why the original group was there. And you saw it in that video.
So the easy -- the simple response to your question is, is that the president is ignorance of facts, and he's ignorant of history. And he doesn't understand this country. He doesn't understand who he represents.
And as I said earlier, he needs to go back and get an elementary school history lesson so that he might understand that.
BLITZER: You know, David Chalian, I suspect not just Will Hurd, the Republican congressman from Texas, but a lot of Republicans were squirming during the course of that 15- or 20-minute exchange he had with reporters in the lobby of Trump Tower.
[17:40:05] CHALIAN: There's no doubt. My phone is full of lots of Republicans who were doing exactly that, Wolf.
There -- I believe the question you're asking, Gloria, is a question for the Republican Party at this point.
BORGER: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
CHALIAN: I mean, that -- that's who has to answer that question about who is going to step forward, because it is now up to the leaders of his own party to figure a path forward. Because he has proven incapable of doing so.
And so it is his cabinet. It is the leadership on Capitol Hill. The majorities of both houses are Republicans. The conversation and the consternation that the Republican Party has been going through throughout the entirety of the campaign around Donald Trump. And trying to wrestle with this thing that they knew was singeing them but had all this fuel and fire, they have to come to resolution about that now.
BORGER: Well, because...
LEMON: Wolf -- Wolf and Gloria, that's to the initial response when I asked you. The people around him, when I said the people around him keep making excuses for him.
BORGER: Right.
LEMON: And that includes Republicans. I mean, now, many of them have come forward on this particular point.
But the president has a Republican house. He has a Republican Senate. And he is in control, a Republican White House. And so if they don't put the guardrails on, if they don't put their hands up and say, "Mr. President, stop. You're not only embarrassing the country, you are scaring people. We don't know what you're doing with this. You no longer represent the interests of the Republican Party," he will continue to do what he's doing now. They are enablers if they don't stop him from this.
AXELROD: You know, I accept everything you guys are saying, but let's be honest. Donald Trump never really felt particular allegiance to the Republican Party.
LEMON: That's true.
AXELROD: And the Republican Party didn't really feel an allegiance to Donald Trump. He is an independent actor. There are stories today that Ivanka and Jared came to him and urged him to be tough on these groups, on these neo-Nazis, on these white supremacists; and he went out and did what he did today.
Do you think that Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan or some of these other Republican leaders are going to have more influence with Donald Trump than his own family? He is going...
CHALIAN: ... who has the power, David. They have -- they are the leadership that control the power.
BORGER: But that's the worry.
AXELROD: Look, I don't excuse them at all. I don't excuse them at all. And they -- and he should be roundly condemned by Republicans and Democrats.
Look, I heard him a few weeks ago talking about how he could be more presidential than anybody but the late, great Abraham Lincoln. Well, you know what the late, great Abraham Lincoln did at the -- as the Civil War closed down? He gave a second inaugural address in which he said "With charity for all, with malice towards none. We need to bind up the wounds of the nation." That's what presidents are expected to do.
BORGER: Exactly. Well, and that...
AXELROD: Not tear those wounds apart.
BORGER: Right, and that...
AXELROD: Not exploit them for his own political gain.
BORGER: Well, so you have a president who sees neo-Nazis and those opposing neo-Nazis as competing interests.
BLITZER: Equal.
BORGER: Equal. There's no sort of moral clarity here. There's no sense that they are not equal and that, yes, OK, he may say somebody was violent. They shouldn't have been. But this was a Nazi rally. OK?
And he president didn't really acknowledge that today at all and talked about, well, on the one hand and on the other hand, and what's next to come down? Is Thomas Jefferson's statue next to come down?
BLITZER: One side had a permit. The other side didn't have a permit.
BORGER: The other side didn't. They were innocently -- I keep using this phrase -- "innocently and legally protesting." Well, that's not what...
LEMON: But even the mayor of the city said that the protesters, the anti -- the racist protesters -- yes, the racist protestors didn't even abide by their own permit. They started coming into, way into the city and into the routes in ways that they weren't supposed to.
BORGER: So what are the facts that the president has?
LEMON: And the counter-protesters would not have been there had it not been for those racist protesters who there were the beginning.
BORGER: Exactly. Exactly. But...
BLITZER: David Chalian, I want you to listen. This is Republican senator, Cory Gardner, of Colorado, speaking about an hour or so before the president's news conference. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CORY GARDNER (R), COLORADO: This past weekend was a tragedy. When we witness people with KKK signs and white supremacists and neo- Nazi signs, I will tell you this. Those assholes can go back to their cave. We don't want them in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now pointedly, we didn't hear that from the president of the United States: "I don't want their support."
BORGER: No.
BLITZER: "I don't need their support. They should all go away." You didn't hear that.
CHALIAN: You didn't hear that at all. And what you hear is that from those people that Cory Gardner was just describing, the neo-Nazis, the KKK, the white supremacists, they take comfort in what they hear from Donald Trump. They take comfort in this. That should be so alarming to the president of the United States, and it doesn't seem to be.
So I also want to remind you, again, Wolf, just again, the -- politically here, Cory Gardner, his job is to get Republicans elected to the Senate, to think through campaign strategy for every Senate race next year, to make...
HERE
[17:45:00] DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I also want to remind you, Wolf, just again, the -- politically here, Cory Gardner, his job --
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. CHALIAN: -- is to get Republicans elected to the Senate, to think
through campaign strategy for every Senate race next year in the country to make sure that Republicans hang on to their majority in the United States Senate. That's how he is talking. That's what he sees as the right thing to do politically, morally, all of it.
And Donald Trump is missing the boat here. He is getting more and more isolated on an island apart from the country he represents.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to --
BORGER: Well --
BLITZER: I want to -- the reaction, and the reaction is coming in very, very quickly. Almost all very, very negative to what the President said, but here is a Democratic Senator, Brian Schatz of Hawaii. He just tweeted this.
As a Jew, as an American, as a human, words cannot express my disgust and disappointment. This is not my President.
Senator Brian Schatz of Hawaii. And we're getting, you know, David Axelrod, a lot of reaction along those lines. People are simply outraged right now.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think whatever your political point of view, embracing Nazi-ism, even tacitly or dog whistling in that direction, embracing White supremacism, embracing the scenes that we just saw on the air here, is something that is repugnant to people of all political stripes.
I have been getting e-mails from friends in the Republican Party expressing their shock, their embarrassment, their dismay about what's -- what the President has done. But, you know, to David's point that he is going to be -- he is isolating himself, he is on an island, he came from an island. He did --
BORGER: He is.
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: He did not -- It is not as if the President was part of -- he is his own entity. And the truth is, he has as much -- he has much -- as much kinship with some of those forces on the alt-right as he does with mainstream Republicans. And so everybody ought to be hip to that. It is not as if he has just sort gone off the deep end.
BORGER: I agree.
AXELROD: He started off the deep end.
BORGER: Well, I agree. And to that point, there aren't Republicans that he values or trusts enough who could go to him in the Oval Office and say, Mr. President, this is a national disaster right now, and presidents need to preside over national disasters in a different way from the way you did. They do not need to cause them. They need to fix them.
And who would have the authority with Trump to do that? Maybe General Kelly.
BLITZER: His new White House Chief of Staff.
BORGER: His new White House Chief of Staff.
BLITZER: Who was standing in the corner there at that news conference.
BORGER: Exactly.
BLITZER: I can only imagine how uncomfortable --
CHALIAN: But I think it's a mirage.
BLITZER: -- he felt.
CHALIAN: There is nobody for him, yes. I --
BORGER: There is nobody.
BLITZER: Let me --
BORGER: But to answer the answer, it's kind of a rhetorical --
CHALIAN: I think that premise has already been proven.
BORGER: It's kind of a rhetorical question, I'm asking, in a way. But who is it? Because somebody -- maybe it's, you know, Jared or Ivanka. Maybe it is somebody in his family. But this is a man who cannot get beyond himself, who cannot admit that he made a mistake, and that what he is doing is compounding that mistake right now because he cannot admit that he was ever wrong.
BLITZER: You know --
AXELROD: Let me ask you a question --
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's just be honest. Jared and Ivanka --
AXELROD: Can I --
BLITZER: One at a time.
AXELROD: Can I --
LEMON: Jared and Ivanka --
BLITZER: One at a time. One at a time.
LEMON: -- have no power. Poof!They have no power.
BORGER: Right. LEMON: It doesn't matter. They have not been able to control or
change anything that Donald Trump says or does from the beginning. It's just maybe they'll be sort of the normalizing force in the White House. Not going to happen. They are there for show and to promote their brand and their jewelry and all of that, and so let's just be honest about that.
The real people, as I said, who can make a difference will be Republicans. And my question on my show last night to every single Republican who came on is, when is enough enough? What is the breaking point?
Does a tax cut of a few dollars mean that much to you where you lose your humanity, where you lose your manhood? Does being able to make a little bit more money that you can sort of reconcile to your daughter that you're allowed -- someone is able to grab her by the genitals? How do you reconcile those things?
And there is example after example after example. Even for people who did not support this president in the beginning, people who may have been centrists or may have been left -- and may have been left. They want to just support this president. But every single day, it seems that he does something where he puts himself further on an island and people say, I can no longer support you.
So for Republicans, when is enough, enough? What is the breaking point? What is the moral compass of your party? Who is the moral conscience and compass of this country right now?
BORGER: Great question.
LEMON: Barack Obama is not in office. I haven't heard from John Lewis. I spoke with him personally. He hasn't said anything publicly right now. But who is the moral leader of this country?
We are leaderless morally as far as I can see at this point, unless you guys can bring someone to the fore. I don't know who is.
[17:50:00] BLITZER: David Axelrod?
AXELROD: Yes, let me -- I hate to make prosaic tactical point after Don's sort of moral point, but just as a tactical matter, you mentioned General Kelly. I'm wondering what the heck they were doing sending the President out here today.
I mean, someone must have had a sense of his temperature. Anybody could have understood that -- anybody should have understood that there were going to be no questions about infrastructure today.
BORGER: Right.
AXELROD: Infrastructure was the last thing on anybody's mind. So basically what you were doing was, you were sending Donald Trump out there to handle these questions. Clearly, he must have expressed himself on this internally in the way that he expressed himself, ultimately, externally. Why did they send him out there? Part of containing this is to try and sense where the President is at,
and, you know, yet you can't stop him from tweeting and so on. But you might have been able to prevent this. That's my first question.
The second question is, you asked which Republican can talk to him. What is the Vice President going to do?
BORGER: Right.
CHALIAN: Yes.
AXELROD: What is his conversation going to be with the -- is he going to continue to defend the President in unquestioning terms, even in situations like this? He holds himself up as a moral leader. Is he going to be one in this case?
BLITZER: Well, we know that he is 71 years old. He's unlikely to change. He is unlikely to acknowledge he made a mistake, and he's certainly unlikely to apologize. He was asked about his chief political strategist in the White House, Steve Bannon, and his future in the White House. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, I like Mr. Bannon. He's a friend of mine, but Mr. Bannon came on very late. You know that. I went through 17 senators, governors, and I won all the primaries. Mr. Bannon came on very much later than that.
And I like him. He's a good man. He is not a racist, I can tell you that. He's a good person. He actually gets a very unfair press in that regard.
But we'll see what happens with Mr. Bannon. But he's a good person, and I think the press treats him, frankly, very unfairly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Interesting.
BLITZER: We'll see what happens, David Chalian. We'll see what happens with Mr. Bannon. That is not exactly a vote of confidence in Steve Bannon.
CHALIAN: It seemed like a vote of no confidence, yes. It's never a good day when you have to go out to the cameras and say your chief strategist is not a racist. That's not usually a good day for the President of the United States. And clearly, there is no movement from the President to embrace Steve Bannon.
It is so ironic, if you will, or perhaps just coincidental, but that Steve Bannon, who is so clearly identified with the alt-right and Breitbart and the White nationalist movement in many ways, for this controversy to be brewing right now while Steve Bannon is being dangled by the President in the balance of not knowing what his future is going to be at the White House. Seems somewhat coincidental and confounding all at the same time.
BORGER: Well, because --
LEMON: Steve Bannon put the alt-right on the map. He --
BORGER: Right. But, you know, the --
LEMON: You know, they gained prominence through his Web site, through Breitbart, so what the hell is the President talking about?
BORGER: Well, but, you know, ironically, the problems with Steve Bannon come from his fight with Jared Kushner and come from other places. People inside the White House disagree with him substantively.
CHALIAN: McMaster.
BORGER: McMaster, et cetera. They disagree with him substantively, and it predated all of the events in Charlottesville.
BLITZER: Of course.
BORGER: So now I think they have a problem to, you know, to decide if indeed the President wants to get rid of him and if, actually, General Kelly wants to get rid of him. When do you -- you know, when do you do that and how would that portray?
LEMON: With all of this talk of politics, I feel like, David --
AXELROD: Well --
LEMON: I feel like, David Axelrod, when you're saying, you know, after you make the moral point, then let me make this other point. But I just -- I feel like, you know, we keep talking about politics and what this means and the factions in the White House.
If you are there in the White House, then you tacitly support what this President is doing. You are complicit. Anyone who is there, from General Kelly to whomever, to whatever spokesperson, to Stephen Miller, to Bannon, to everyone on down, they are complicit.
They believe exactly what the President does because if they didn't, they wouldn't be around him. They have the power and the freedom as an American to say, I don't want this job. I'm going to go do something else.
So they believe it as well. They are complicit. So no one around him believes anything other than what he believes. And as I said earlier, he said he's not the most -- he's the least racist person. It's certainly racist to Jason (ph), all of it.
BLITZER: All right. Every --
AXELROD: Well, Don, let me --
BLITZER: Very quickly. AXELROD: OK, go ahead, Wolf.
BLITZER: Go ahead, David, very quickly.
AXELROD: Look, somebody has got to do those jobs. I suspect that some of those people who are staying -- and I'm not defending any of this.
LEMON: Go ahead.
AXELROD: But some of those people who are staying are staying because they think they're the thin blue line between Donald Trump and the rest of the world.
BLITZER: Yes, I've heard that from several --
LEMON: It hasn't proven true yet.
BLITZER: -- several people who worked for him in the administration. They think they have a responsibility to protect the country from some of what he wants to do.
[17:54:57] Coming up, we're going to have much more on the breaking news and the truly stunning diatribe. President Trump goes off the rails. He's blaming both sides, both sides, for the violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, saying the White supremacist rally was attacked by what he calls the alt-left.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Happening now. Off the rails. President Trump unleashes a rambling combative defense of his response to the violence in Charlottesville, undermining his belated rebuke of racist groups by, once again, blaming both sides. This hour, new outrage from critics who say his attempt at a do-over was a sham.
I need the facts. Mr. Trump claims he hesitated to say too much about Charlottesville at first because he needed more information. We're going to breakdown his eye-popping explanation.
