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The Situation Room

Biden Picks Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) as Running Mate. Aired 5- 6p ET

Aired August 11, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She speaks with authority by her very embodiment of who she is. The daughter of immigrants, a biracial woman, and a former prosecutor.

Immigrants from India and Jamaica young law. Kyung Lah, thank you so much for bringing us the latest there.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. Our coverage on CNN continues right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I want to welcome our viewers in United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Anderson Cooper in The Situation Room. We are following breaking news.

Presumptive Democratic Presidential Nominee Joe Biden has picked California Senator Kamala Harris as his running mate. That announcement coming from the campaign just in the last hour. We're covering all the angles on this breaking news this hour.

Let's begin with CNN Senior Washington Correspondent Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, just bring us up to speed.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, it is the biggest decision that Joe Biden has made in his political career and certainly in his presidential campaign by choosing Kamala Harris. He sets his campaign off on the next 85 days or so here in to the general election of race. We do know that he was choosing between 11 potential candidates, all women, so this was always going to be a historic choice. But when you talk to friends of the former vice president they say he was consistently looking for someone who could be a governing partner. Also taking into account the moment that this country has been going through the last several months. And certainly, Senator Harris' record on justice, record on reform, and showing that she is indeed a trail making figure in her own right, certainly led to this decision.

But they have also had conversations, of course, throughout the presidential campaign, they were rivals which we all remember very well, but that quickly was said in the past. There's no one that to Vice President Joe Biden, he knew, I'm told that he needed someone who had campaign experience. He needed someone who had been on the national stage. He knows how hard it is to run for president and how hard it is to run for vice president. He did not want to, I'm told put someone in the position of having to be elevated to that position without being, you know, sort of in a prominent role.

So, it was her time on the debate stage, even at moments when she was going after him that actually, you know, showed him that she has what it takes here. But it's the historic nature of this candidacy that is one of the biggest moments here. Of course, she will be the only third woman who will be on a major party ticket as a running mate. But it is more than that, it's her biography, it's her life story. It's also the type of voters who she is able to reach out to.

And even though her presidential campaign, of course, was not successful, she did have popularity with women in the suburbs. So the Biden campaign believes this injects excitement into this campaign. Even President Trump has praised Kamala Harris, he has had his eye on her for a long time. He was watching her announcement back in January of 2019, praising her crowds and he's talked about her often.

So, that is going to be an interesting dynamic to watch. There will be one debate between Senator Harris and Vice President Mike Pence. That, of course, will be an interesting moment. But it is this decision, we're told in the last several days or so after the former vice president went through his list of other potential candidates including Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer who he wanted to have in for a face-to-face meeting. He was very flattered and he was impressed and taken by how she has led in Michigan on coronavirus. So he had her fly to Delaware, they had a face-to-face meeting, he had face-to-face meetings with virtually all the other finalists as well, with Senator Elizabeth Warren, a few members of the House, as well as the Senator Tammy Duckworth. But it was the California Senator Kamala Harris who he kept coming back to again and again in his mind for that combination of experience on the stage as well as what she brings to the ticket here.

Now, we are going to see them for the first time tomorrow in Wilmington, Delaware. She'll be leaving Washington and flying up to Delaware to make -- or driving up to Delaware more likely to make an appearance with a Joe Biden. And, of course, this is all on the heels of the Democratic convention starting just next week. So a week from tomorrow, she will be developing or delivering her acceptance speech at the convention virtually. And then will be on her way here.

So Anderson, this long awaited summer decision with Joe Biden really is painstakingly gone through is ending where many people thought it was beginning with Senator Kamala Harris.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, I guess it does raise the question of how real was the search, was the consideration of others, because if clearly, as you say, he wanted somebody who had national experience running on the national stage and of the finalists as it were, that -- of the names were, was really either Kamala Harris or Senator Elizabeth Warren, who had actually run campaigns of their own, run for president or even just been on the national stage compared to the others. ZELENY: We were told by his advisors that he took this very seriously. He looked at all the vetting records, everyone has to be vetted, 11 women were vetted for this position. Their financial records, there to some to varying degrees here but he was also, you know, looking to see if anyone else had jumped out at him.

[17:05:06]

And I think the Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer is one example of someone that Joe Biden didn't really know. He'd only met her a couple other times but he was impressed by how she was handling coronavirus, impressed by the sum some of the fights that she was getting in with the president, of course, he was instigating those. So there were -- you know, this was definitely a process he was going through. But at the end, it did come back to Senator Harris for many of those reasons here. And then in her -- the only words we've heard from her so far was a tweet she sent out. She said she's honored to join his ticket. That clearly is a sign of her pledge of loyalty to Joe Biden.

And Anderson, one other thing, there is a connection that bonds her to the Bidens, that is through his late son Beau. She was the attorney general in California at the same time that Beau Biden was the attorney general in Delaware. They worked on mortgage loan issues together and it was a friendship that to Joe Biden even -- that she already is connected to the family. Family is very important to the Bidens. She alone also brought to the table here, Anderson.

COOPER: She also has been in the rough and tumble of campaigns not just obviously the campaign for president, but I mean, for district attorney in San Francisco, in California, obviously for senator as well.

ZELENY: No question. And that played a key role in this. Only a handful of other candidates, certainly Senator Warren would have as well had been tested in a national campaign like this. And no one knows what it's like to run for president more than Joe Biden. He unsuccessfully did it in 1987, in 2007, of course, he was successful, ultimately in this campaign, so he did not -- he was skeptical, frankly, I'm told of putting some of these untested figures in this national campaign.

The Biden campaign knows how difficult this is going to be. You know, it's not easy or common to defeat a sitting president. This campaign, they realized will not be easy either, but it was her abilities on the campaign trail that also led to this. But just her biography as well, you know, she was viewed as the full package here. Now, we will have to see how this relationship comes together.

Everyone talks about, you know, there's no question that the relationship with Joe Biden and Barack Obama at the end of their eight years was incredibly strong. Didn't necessarily certainly start out that way. They barely knew each other. They had to work into that relationship.

So that, I'm told is the types of discussions that those two had when they had their interview. That is the kind of partnership he is looking for. And, of course, the governing partner, whoever wins in November, certainly many, many challenges await the next president, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, it is a fascinating choice. And one we're obviously going to be looking very closely at over the next several hours and days.

CNN Political Correspondent Arlette Saenz is next. Jeff Zeleny, Jeff, thanks very much.

Arlette, you're in Wilmington, Delaware. What do we know about Biden and Harris' first event together?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Anderson, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will be holding their first event as the Democratic ticket here in Wilmington tomorrow. They will be delivering remarks, we're still waiting on an exact date and time. But this will be the first time that the two of them are in person together since Biden selected Kamala Harris as his running mate.

And actually, Biden's last campaign event before coronavirus brought everything to a standstill. His last major campaign rally was one that he held with Kamala Harris in Detroit back in March. And he stood on that stage with Kamala Harris and also Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer and New Jersey Senator Cory Booker. And Biden talked about how he views himself as the bridge to the next generation. And that is something that you clearly see in this pick that he made today.

Now, Kamala Harris brings a lot of experience as Jeff was talking about on the national stage having competed against Biden in that Democratic primary, also having run for senator in California. So that is something that she'll be bringing to this campaign as they are heading into kind of this final three months stretch leading up to that election against President Trump and Mike Pence.

And also, as Jeff talked about, you can't underestimate Kamala Harris' relationship with Joe Biden. They serve together as attorney generals in their states.

COOPER: Yes.

SAENZ: And for Biden, family is incredibly important. You know, Beau Biden was also seen as a promising political mind and his life was cut short by cancer, but that bond that he has with Kamala Harris is something that the Biden family will hold on to as these two teams blend together. You know, Biden's looking for that long-term potential that he can develop a relationship with his partner in the White House. So that is something that he clearly sees going forward with Kamala Harris.

Now, we also should note that this is a historic pick. Kamala Harris is an African-American woman, also a woman of a South Asian descent. So Biden, you know, he was part of a historic administration serving alongside the first African-American president and now if he is elected as president, he will be serving alongside the first woman and also a diverse woman to that point. [17:10:13]

COOPER: Arlette, just in terms of the event, you said she is coming there, I'm assuming that therefore they are actually physically together in person for this event. Is it just going to be a virtual event? I mean, sort of online somewhere. Is there actually going to be an appearance somewhere in Delaware with an audience? Do we know?

SAENZ: Well, the campaign hasn't given us much detail about what this event will consist of, but we do expect that reporters would be allowed into that event as some of Biden's previous events here in the state of Delaware and Pennsylvania. But certainly just as we've seen, I've been to a few of Biden's events since coronavirus has taken place and there's always social distancing, trying to make sure that they are keeping those protocols and safety measures in place, so that is something that likely would also take effect tomorrow.

You know, right now, one big question heading into these fall months is what is campaigning going to look like? Will Biden and will his running mate be touring the country as you typically do? It remains to be a scene at this point and next week's convention has largely turn virtual.

COOPER: What are Biden's events like that you have attended? Yes. You said there's social distancing. Is it a small -- it's obviously a small event somewhere, he's been to a small crowd. Small groups of people.

SAENZ: So Biden's events in the past two months have been either here in Delaware or in Pennsylvania, and it's typically a small group of reporters that are allowed in. And then at times, there are some other members, perhaps he sat for a roundtable with a group of people before in Pennsylvania. So those are the types of events that he's engaging with. But right now, the campaign hasn't given us any further details other than the two of them will be together here in Wilmington as the Democratic ticket.

COOPER: All right. Well, Arlette Saenz, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Well, let's go to CNN's Jessica Dean who's outside Senator Harris' Washington, D.C. home. Any sign of the senator?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, our crew last saw Kamala Harris on Sunday, and since then there has been no sign of Harris here at her condo building in Northwest Washington D.C. We have seen her husband, he was out earlier today getting a cup of coffee, but so far no sign of Harris. We're seeing a large crowd gathering here of neighbors and press but no Harris here.

I do want to show you a picture that is coming from the former vice president's Instagram feed. Take a look at this. We're just learning this photo was taken today when he was informing Harris she would be his pick for vice president. The caption reading, "I have the great honor to announce that I've picked at Kamala Harris, a fearless fighter for the little guy and one of the country's finest public service -- servants as my running mate. Back when Kamala was attorney general, she worked closely with Beau, and I watched as they took on the big banks, lifted up working people and protected women and kids from abuse. I was proud then and I'm proud now to have her as my partner in this campaign."

And Anderson, I know that we've heard from Arlette and others, Jeff Zeleny, but Beau Biden really playing a key role in all of this, his late son, in all of the rollout, in the fundraising e-mails and the announcement e-mails in this photo, he speaks of Beau Biden's relationship with Kamala Harris. But here in Washington, D.C. back at her condo, of course, we are keeping an eye out for her to see if she might come out here through the front or even through the back. We know that they'll be together tomorrow for their first event together.

The question is Anderson, how will they get together? Is she already there? Is she in route? Or is she still here in D.C.? That we will find out.

COOPER: All right, Jessica Dean. Jessica, thanks very much. I want to be --

DEAN: Yes.

COOPER: Let's check in with David Chalian. We have a whole team obviously political experts and correspondents as well. David Chalian, obviously, a fascinating choice, a historic choice in this extraordinarily historic year.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. And the history is key here. I mean, I just -- given where we are in the country right now, in this moment in time, Joe Biden choosing a barrier breaking kind of choice for his running mate. You know, that's -- that should just not go unnoticed. That is a critical component here.

There's so much, there's so much antipathy about Donald Trump and the Democratic Party that's fueling so much of Joe Biden's support right now. What the Biden campaign is now counting on is Kamala Harris joining Forces and being a force multiplier and that really appealing to key segments of core constituencies to help jazz that enthusiasm even more than what the sort of the anger at Donald Trump is already putting in place for Joe Biden's current state in this race.

[17:15:01]

COOPER: Also, I mean, obviously, you know, when one is considering a vice president, you try to -- as you say, a force multiplier, you try to look for a person who has strengths in areas that you may not have. And certainly, Kamala Harris had appeal among women in the suburbs as Jeff Zeleny said earlier. You know, Joe Biden clearly who has a lot of support among older African-Americans certainly hopes that Kamala Harris helps him among African-Americans, as well as ,you know, she's got California, West Coast connections and has been on the stage.

CHALIAN: Yes. I mean, that last part is so key that she has been on the stage because, you know, Anderson, these next seven or eight days before she gives her acceptance speech is now sort of the full vetting again. But for a year and a half, she went through a vetting as a presidential candidate. It was not a successful campaign, she bowed out before the voting ever began but she did deal with a lot of the incoming that she's going to have to deal with again, and answered for it throughout the course of her campaign.

To your point, though, I do see there are places where she and Joe Biden are both strong. Female voters, certainly a place they both are very strong and they're critical component to Democrat's success against Donald Trump if they're to have success this fall. But I would also just note, the generational shift here. Here is a woman in her mid-50s, African-American woman, an Indian-American woman, the face of the new Democratic Party, that is where Joe Biden -- he doesn't have. Yes, he has African-American support, there's no doubt about that, they hope, delivered him the Democratic nomination. But I think the passing of the torch, the -- as Joe Biden said, seeing himself as a transitional figure in Democratic politics at the moment, this generational shift, this new face of the Democratic Party, I think Joe Biden wanted to put all of that front and center with this pick as well.

COOPER: Yes. And injects energy that he would certainly like to have moving forward given the bizarre nature of what campaigning will be like over the next 80-plus days.

CHALIAN: Yes. I mean, think about it, it's not going to look like anything we've ever seen before. The idea of how the campaign unfolds, do you knock on voters doors. Certainly, the Trump team has been trying to do that. Get out on the stump, get big, none of that is going to happen. So, getting energy injected into a process that is going to be a lot through screens is no doubt a key component and she has that proven quality as well.

COOPER: Yes. Let's check in with Nia-Malika Henderson. David Chalian, thanks so much.

Nia-Malika, what do you make of this?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, the history of it, I think in some ways, we've been talking about a Biden- Harris ticket for about a year now. So much so that to some people it might seem inevitable. Of course, it was going to be Kamala Harris.

She's a conventional choice. She makes sense. She can step into the presidency on day one. But the history and the blood, sweat, and tears that it took to get here, you know, I think about people like Sojourner Truth back in the 1850s prevailing on white women to include black women in their fight for suffrage, saying that black women themselves were women, too. I think about Fannie Lou Hamer who in the 1960s had to tell the Democratic Party the black women and southern voters should be included in their agenda.

And then you think, of course, of Shirley Chisholm, 1972, launching her bid for the White House. She was dismissed in many ways, obviously didn't win, but the idea behind that candidacy was to expand the American imagination about who could hold power. Expand black people's imagination about who could hold power. Black men's imagination about who could hold power. And certainly just the broader population and obviously when Kamala Harris announced her candidacy in January of -- in January she also talked about Shirley Chisholm saying that she was carrying this banner that Shirley Chisholm unfurled in 1972 almost 50 years ago.

So, you know, we will see what this process is like but the history of it. And I also think it should be noted that this is still a risky pick, right? America is still a country that is marred too often by racism and sexism. Black women in particular, often ignored, stepped over and stepped on.

So the idea that somehow a, that this was inevitable and that this isn't a risky or bold choice, even in this moment where people are talking about social justice, and there's clearly a rising Democratic -- demographic shift in this country.

[17:20:00]

It's blacker, its browner. You think about Congress, more women than ever in this present Congress. But still for Joe Biden to make this pick, it isn't without risk. We've seen what's happened even already in terms of people talking about Kamala Harris, is she too ambitious, does she rub people the wrong way, and this was from Joe Biden's friends, right, people in his circle.

So we will see, you know, how she is covered going forward. And we expect that some of these terrible, terrible forces of both racism and sexism clearly haven't been overcome. But it is also clear that if you're picking someone to overcome them, it would be Kamala Harris. Somebody who has broken barriers in California and made history over and over again. Imagine how hard that has been for a black woman to really ascend to this highest office in the land so far with this nomination. So we'll see.

But, yes, we should not downplay the significance of this, of the riskiness of this. And my goodness, this was not inevitable. It came from hundreds of years of hard work.

And more recently, a real campaign by African-American women in particular to say it's time for a black woman to have this kind of seat at the table given how important they've been to the Democratic Party to Joe Biden's campaign, and more specifically, in just the Democratic Party's fortunes more broadly over the last many years.

COOPER: Vice -- Former President Obama has put out a tweet, I just want to put that up on the screen. It says, "I've known Senator Kamala Harris for a long time. She's more than prepared for the job. She spent her career defending our constitution and fighting for folks who need a fair shake. This is a good day for our country. Now let's go win this thing."

The record of Kamala Harris as a prosecutor, as a defense -- as a district attorney in San Francisco, in California writ large, that's obviously going to be under a microscope. Obviously she has run before so everything is pretty much well-known. The scrutiny obviously will be more intense than she's ever faced. I'm wondering how you think her record as a district attorney, how that -- I mean, on the one hand, you have the Republican saying -- or, you know, the White House saying about Joe Biden that he wants to defund police, Joe Biden has said he does not want to defund police. You also have people, younger people in many in the Black Lives Matter movement who certainly do want to defund police and who see somebody like Kamala Harris as somebody who is -- has been part of a system that they want to change.

HENDERSON: Is that to me, Anderson?

COOPER: Yes. Yes.

HENDERSON: Yes. So I think if you look into Kamala Harris' record, criminal justice record, in many ways it sort of mirrors where the Democratic Party has been over these last many years. She was a prosecutor, she often sided with the police in many ways, she had to navigate all cross currents. She was -- and look at her conviction record. I mean, part of what happened was the conviction record went up and that was a selling point for Kamala Harris as she made her way up eventually to attorney general.

And then you have, I think this situation where as you said, Black Lives Matter folks defund the police. You also just have an increasing sort of racial liberalism taking hold in the Democratic Party, and that includes white voters too. Black Lives Matter, if you look at their approval ratings a couple of years ago, it wasn't where it is right now. So people are much more likely to pay attention to some of the messages from the Black Lives Matter movement.

Joe Biden obviously at a different record, on a different stance back in the day when he was part of that -- the crime bill, right, and that's where the party was. But you've seen this shift, and I think you see a similar thing going on with Kamala Harris. But it's also true that there are some African-Americans who like the idea of being tough on crime. There certainly white suburbanites who like the idea of being tough on crime, and I'm sure when Kamala Harris was running in California, those are the kind of people she appeal to and found favor with.

But listen, this is going to be scrutinized, you're going to have a president who on the one hand like you said, said somehow they want to defund the police and Kamala Harris was tough on crime. I imagine they'll probably try to sort of microtarget African-Americans, particularly African-American men, and say these are the kinds of people who want to lock up your sons and daughters. So I think we know where that's going to go but at the same time, I think you're going to have them be able to appeal to some of these working class white voters as well as suburban white voters too who are maybe a little nervous about defund the police and are maybe a little nervous about some of the rhetoric coming out of Black Lives Matter.

[17:25:07]

COOPER: Yes. Nia-Malika Henderson, thanks so much. I want to show some video from a town hall that we did with former Vice President Biden in which he spoke about what he would look for in a vice presidential candidate (INAUDIBLE).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D-DE), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's incredibly presumptuous for me at this stage to be talking about a running mate, and I'll get killed if I get specific. But let me tell you what rather than who, and there's a number of incredibly qualified people. The first criteria that I have to particularly in my case because I'm older just like with John McCain, I have to pick someone if God forbid something happened tomorrow, if I contract it with my son Hunter or something like that, that the person is ready on day one to be president of United States. But the second criteria is I'd very much like my administration to look like the country like Barack and our administration look like. Black, brown, women, men, gay straight across the board to look like the country.

As vice president, I think it would be wonderful to have a woman or a person of color as vice president. But the most important thing I've learned from my relationship with Barack, with -- I call him Brock not president because I don't want to confuse him with the president thing, right. One of the things I learned is that no president in the 21st century can handle the job all by themselves. It's just too much that land on your plate. So you've got to be prepared to turn over significant responsibility as the president did with me on matters relating to a whole range of issues, and turn it over and run it from beginning to end.

But I know one thing, you've got to be on the same page, whomever I pick, man, woman, whoever it is, has to agree with my strategic vision for the country. We can disagree on tactics but unless you'd agree -- and they can be totally trustworthy, but if they don't agree on strategic, it's impossible to say here, you take this responsibility with regard to Ukraine, you take care of it and just do it. You have to know you're on the same page. So that's the first criteria I know has to exist no matter who you pick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That's former Vice President Joe Biden in February 5th. It seems like a lifetime ago before the pandemic really hit.

We're joined now by more of our correspondents. Let's talk to Dana Bash. Dana, were you surprised by this selection?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Not really because this is -- this has been one of the top contenders that we know that the former vice president has been considering since he began the process. And that moment where the former vice president really laid it out there what he was looking for is really remarkable through the prism of today when he was with you at that town hall. And you remember the last debate of the 2020 primary season was with CNN, and the question I asked Joe Biden was if he became the nominee, would he pick -- who would he pick and he vowed he would pick a woman. And I think we were all surprised that he just said that, he made that promise. It was one of the last events really before the pandemic really took hold.

So, the fact that he said that, the fact that he was already on this path of a woman and clearly looking for somebody who was not necessarily a white woman made it pretty clear that there were a limited number of people who he thought were -- would meet the criteria that he laid out there. And most importantly, somebody who he could really trust, somebody who could step in there on day one.

Having said that, there were a number of African-American women on his shortlist. I mean, Val Demings, the congresswoman from Florida, Karen Bass, the congresswoman from California. We know that he talked to Susan Rice among others. And I think that's important to underscore that there actually were a number of women of color, never mind a Tammy Duckworth who, of course, is Asian-American, women of color who he was seriously considering. And so, you know, that is the reality that he had.

I will tell you that my reporting along the way and I know my colleagues also, despite the fact that he kind of ended up where maybe people thought he started, he had a really tough time making a decision. And the reason for that is what he laid out with you in that town hall, Anderson. Because he was a two-term vice president, because he understands just how important the job is as being the wingman or woman for the president of the United States on every single level, both personally and in matter of trust, on policy, and it kind of goes from there.

[17:30:00]

And so you add the fact that, as he said to you, he's not a young man. And this is even more important of a pick because of that. It makes it very clear why he missed his own deadline a couple of times in making the final decision, Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Dana, I also want to bring in Gloria Borger. Gloria, I mean, fascinating to watch that from that town hall, as Dana was talking about from February 5th, all the qualities that he kind of laid out and how that ended up with the choice that he's made. This is also going to be a campaign like, I mean, we've never seen anything like this before given the pandemic.

And I don't think anyone really even knows what it is going to look like in terms of events. Will there be large events? Will there be rallies? Will there be canvassing? You know, and so, I -- that no doubt made the decision all the harder.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. Look, they're making it up as they go along. But knowing Joe Biden as I do, and talking to advisors in his campaign, this is a man who read everything about every candidate. And it's not as if we're all going to be able to stand there, Anderson, and say, oh, look at the body language between these two people. They really seem to get along. That isn't going to occur.

We know a lot about Joe Biden and what this pick tells us about Joe Biden, and it tells us that he is willing to bridge a demographic gap. He does want to unite the Democratic Party.

And quite frankly, one of the things that -- my sources were telling me that one of his concerns was, in picking someone, was not only loyalty, do no harm and all the rest of it, was that he wanted a woman who he thought would be tough enough to take what Donald Trump and his campaign would be throwing at her. And if you look at Kamala Harris, she's tough. And she's been tough and, in fact, she unleashed it. I don't want to overdo this, but she unleashed it on Joe Biden at an early debate.

And one of his advisors just said to me, this shows you that he's nothing like Trump. Because if someone had done that to Trump, he would have forgotten them forever. And Biden said, you know what, OK. She did that. And she's tough and that is what he is looking for.

Don't forget, Biden is Mr. Empathy in this campaign. You heard him talk about his son Beau even in announcing the pick of Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris is a tough as nails prosecutor. And I think there was a lot of thought that went into how would she do in a debate with Mike Pence, and how would she handle the Donald Trump campaign and I don't know whether that -- how important that was on his list because, of course, loyalty is on the list as well. But I know that Biden wanted someone to balance him that way to be really tough.

COOPER: And again, we talked about this, Dana, but somebody who has been there on the national stage, I mean, and also not just on the national stage, but you know, as district attorney in California, in San Francisco, she's had some tough races.

BASH: She sure has. She's definitely had some tough races in just getting to the point where she could be the Democratic Senator from California, considering the fact that it's a state of Democrats that wasn't so easy for her. And she is a trailblazer. She became the first Attorney General -- female African-American Attorney General in California, the first African-American woman to represent California, in the United States Senate. And now of course, the biggest barrier that she is broken and just being picked and she will be confirmed by the party as the first African-American running mate, female running mate for any major party.

I mean, that is a really big deal. And the fact that we are so used to seeing Kamala Harris on the stage because of -- in an arena because of the fact that she ran. Maybe we've kind of gotten used to seeing her out there, but she's going to be in such a different role right now. And she is -- she's a history maker. There's no question about it.

And, you know, the one thing that I just want to emphasize that I mentioned earlier about the notion of representation, we've seen and heard so much about representation mattering, particularly since the whole country exploded and changed in a very good way after the murder of George Floyd. I mean, this is a sign of those times. This is the ultimate in politics and representation mattering and young African- American or other women of color and girls of color are going to look to Kamala Harris as, well, if she can do it, I can do it and that is no small thing.

[17:35:16]

COOPER: Yes. Let's bring in Bakari Sellers to this conversation. Bakari, we haven't talked to you yet today since Vice President Biden made the announcement. Your thoughts on the history of this.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, no, I'm ecstatic. And the reason being is something that Dana hit on. I am the father of a 15-year old black daughter, 19-month old black daughter, and now they get a chance to look at the screen the first time in October, at the vice presidential debate and see someone who looks like them go toe- to-toe. Hopefully, next January at the inauguration when she's able to put our hand in the air and get sworn in as the next V.P. and show little black and brown girls across the country that they too can be the most powerful person in the world.

I think what people have to understand about Senator Harris is not just simply the fact that she hasn't really lost an election. She's won a district attorney level. She's won as an attorney general. She's won as a United States senator. It's not just her tenacity in the courtroom, it's not just her relationship with the Obamas, the Clintons and the Bidens, but it's the fact that she brings a certain element to this ticket. She inspires us all.

My phone is going crazy right now, Anderson, with people who just want to go out and do everything necessary. I was speaking with our former colleague, Donna Brazile, and we were talking last night, and she said that she is going to put on two masks. This isn't something that she hasn't done before. She's had to go out and there's a generation of black folk who had to go out and vote under conditions that were worse than COVID, right? And they're going to wear two masks to go out and vote.

Somebody who text me earlier today, my mama, she text me and say, can you put me in touch with the Biden campaign because I want to sign up and work? I mean, there's so many people who are now energized. And I don't want to say that energy was lacking, but it's a new wind beneath the wings of the Biden campaign. And I know right now that Mike Pence is probably the person who's most fearful of Kamala Harris.

COOPER: He's going to -- there'll be one debate between them and it is clearly part of the consideration, Bakari, that the Vice President must have gone through about who can stand on that vice presidential debate stage because, I mean, it is -- it's one thing to be in a primary race with a lot of other candidates to be one-on-one on a debate stage. Going toe-to-toe is -- it's no small feat.

SELLERS: Yes. And when you -- let's think about this. You know, none of the women who were interviewed to be vice president was slouches. I mean, we have to give props to Karen Bass, who was an amazing candidate and I'm glad she got the interview in the shine that she deserves.

Look at Val Demings who was not only excellent during impeachment, but excellent since then and throughout this process. Susan Rice, I mean, any of these women would have been great choices for vice president, and they would have been great debaters. But what we know is we have a known quantity in Kamala Harris because we've seen her debate. And who can tell you how good a debater she is other than Joe Biden? Now there are a lot of people who blew this way out of proportion.

I mean, when you get in between the lines, you try to win the game. Kamala Harris was trying to be the president of the United States. She prepared for debate like anybody else. And Joe Biden knows that. I mean, you can set aside any petty differences you have, and also know that someone has those skills that are requisite to be the next vice president.

But, Anderson, I can't leave you without sharing this. Not only is she a friend, but I also recognize that she stands on the shoulders of people like Ella Baker, like Fannie Lou Hamer, like Shirley Chisholm, like Hillary Clinton. This is history. And I know we've talked about this being a moment of George Floyd. I know we've talked about this being a moment of Ahmaud Arbery. But there are a lot of women in this country who are sick and tired of being left behind, who are sick and tired of the name Breonna Taylor, not being called out.

And Kamala Harris is representative of not just that frustration. She's not just representative of where we were or where we are. But Kamala Harris is representative of where we can be. And so I'm fired up, I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go out here and do whatever they need me to do to make sure she wins this race.

COOPER: We have seen this real growth of black women in the Black Lives Matter movement and just in the protest movement over the last several months, really taking very forward positions being in the forefront of this. In the civil rights movement in the 60s, there were many, you know, black women doing incredibly important work risking their lives, but it was often men who got the attention. That seems to be changing.

SELLERS: Yes.

COOPER: And though many in the movement may not like some of Kamala Harris's positions from her record or her time as district attorney in California, she can certainly claim part of that mantle.

[17:40:08]

SELLERS: Not only that, but I think that most people are smart enough to recognize evolution. They're smart enough to recognize it. Even when Kamala Harris, if you go back to her days as district attorney, there were certain men in law enforcement who wouldn't even speak to her because she was a black woman. So they would only speak to individuals who worked for her. And so it was very difficult for her as she rose through the ranks. But none of that was something that deterred her.

I remember when I got a phone call from Kamala when she was pulling out of the race. And she was telling me that she can't have us going out here advocating for her without the resources necessary to compete. And I said, well, Senator Harris, let's just -- if you recall, it was right before the debate, and I remember Senator Harris, she kind of answered (ph) me, and she said Bakari, sometimes you have to put other people before your own interest. This is not about me. This is what's best for the country. I cannot go forward, right?

But she said, we're going to still stay in the game, we're going to still stay on the battlefield and we're going to still fight for what Joe Biden calls the soul of this great nation. And so I'm happy that we're at this moment. But there were a lot of us who pushed for her. There were a lot of us who begged the Biden campaign to put her on. There were a lot of us who did that advocacy and did that work.

And we wrote a lot of checks, Anderson. We wrote a whole lot of checks. And so now it's incumbent upon people to go out and make sure that we are cashing those checks, making sure that we're in the streets doing the work. There were 4 million black people who voted for Barack Obama in 2012, who did not vote in 2016. I guarantee you, Kamala Harris is going to slice into that percentage. Many of those were African-American.

COOPER: Let's bring in -- stay with us, Bakari. I want to bring in Abby Phillip. Abby, the historic nature we've been talking about it with Bakari, I'm wondering what you make of how this changes things.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to say how a V.P. pick in general changes things in the overall scheme of things. I do think this is a key moment, though, for black people in this country to see black woman in a place of prominence after many, many, many years since the days of Shirley Chisholm. I think people really see this as a key moment for that kind of progress that Bakari was talking about.

So, yes, in that respect, I think everything has changed from that perspective. You're seeing black women in the Democratic Party, incredibly emotional in this moment, because this has been a long time coming. And I also do think that this is also not just about right now, it is about the future. It's what Joe Biden is saying about how he thinks the future of the Democratic Party is going to look in this pick of Kamala Harris.

He is effectively anointing his successor, Joe Biden, if he is elected, would be the oldest president in American history. And so, inevitably, the person he chooses as his vice president is going to be the person who has to take on that mantle. That's an important decision for him to make, and for him to choose a black woman. In that respect, I think it means a lot to folks.

But I also think we have to look a little bit broader here. Kamala Harris, if you look back at the Democratic primary, it was not just support among black people or black women that mattered. It was also her support among women in general, women in the suburbs, women in their middle ages, who have also become critical to the Democratic Party's success in the midterm elections in 2018 and going on into the future. These are the people who are part of this coalition, and that is also who Kamala Harris reaches out to.

I do want to give one -- an important shout out here, Anderson. Kamala Harris is the daughter of a South Asian woman. She is also making history in that respect. It's really critical to remember that because it crosses across demographic lines hear. This pick from a historic perspective means a lot. It means a lot to black women, it means a lot to HBCUs, it means a lot to South Asian people in this country. And I think that for that reason alone, this is putting politics aside a moment in history that I think are stands out in the course of American history.

COOPER: It's interesting, Abby, that you interesting HBCUs because Kamala Harris went to Howard University, the Trump administration -- Donald Trump often mentions historically black colleges and things that he said that his administration has done for them. It will be interesting to see Kamala Harris actually having attended Howard University, how she responds. Again, you know, if that's brought up and just in this campaign.

PHILLIP: It will be interesting to see. I mean, look, the Trump campaign has been arguing that President Trump has done more for black people than any other president except for Abraham Lincoln.

[17:45:04]

But in Kamala Harris, they have someone who is steeped in the culture of black America. She went to historically black college, she is an AKA, she is a member of the historically black sorority. She truly is a part of that culture and not just because of the color of her skin or because her father was a Jamaican-American. And so, I think it is going to be very difficult for the Trump campaign to use superficial arguments to boost Trump's record with black Americans in the face of someone who is much more fluid in the needs of the black community.

And it's not just -- representation is important, but it's not just that. When you look at Kamala Harris's record, particularly over the last several months. You can see what she's been doing on Capitol Hill in the Senate. She's been putting forward bills about the racial disparity in COVID, she's been putting forward bills about black female mortality. These are all things that I think have been part of her pitch to the Biden campaign to say this is not just about representation, this is also about what her record is in terms of actually putting forward policy that impacts the black community.

So, you know, it's going to be interesting, but when we see especially going up on a debate stage, we were just talking about that against Mike Pence, that's when these issues will really come to bear. She may not be toe-to-toe with Donald Trump as she might have liked to be running for the Democratic nomination, but she will be toe-to-toe with Mike Pence. And it'll be interesting to see how they stack up on those issues.

COOPER: Let's bring in -- Abby, thank you. I want to bring in David Gregory as well. David, we're also going to be watching, obviously, how the Biden campaign deploys and uses Kamala Harris again in a campaign that we really have no idea what any kind of campaign is going to look like.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. And she's not a typical retail campaigner. I mean, she's run for president, but she's also senator from California, which is such a big state that so much of running for election there is done on television rather than hand to hand as a retail politician. But, you know, a lot has been said about the historic nature of this choice and that's obviously so important.

And I think that, from an electoral point of view, the statement that Joe Biden makes here is very important. This is not youth and vibrance that he is projecting and he can do that with Kamala Harris, with a woman and a woman of color, someone who can reflect the future of the country, the future of the party. He sends that strong statement.

At the same time, I don't think we've said enough in the past couple of hours that, in my view, this was a very safe choice. This wasn't surprising. This was the conventional wisdom. I think there's a reason for that.

I don't think Joe Biden wants to surprise. John McCain wanted a surprise. That's why he chose Sarah Palin and it worked for a while until it didn't anymore. Here, Joe Biden wants to keep the focus on Trump and what people think of Trump. He's in the lead in the polls. He doesn't want to shock the campaign. He wants to avoid a mistake.

And there's something else too, which is, I think about what a Joe Biden mean for then Senator Obama. Well, he's shored up his lack of experience. Joe Biden has plenty of experience in Washington and on the world stage. What he needs here is someone who can help attract younger voters of color, but he also wants someone who, while progressive, is not going to be seen as part of the radical left, and I think he's achieved that.

That said, she's still going to become a target. She attacked Biden hard in that debate on busing suggesting he had, you know, views essentially aligned with segregationists. That won't be forgotten by their opponents. Joe Biden may have forgotten. Conservatives are going to try to make a big deal of that and suggest that she's a fake that somehow she'll say or do anything. We'll see where they go with that criticism, but that's certainly coming.

COOPER: Yes. Let's check in with -- David, just hold on. Let's check in with Jeremy Diamond who's outside the White House. Jeremy, any reaction from the Trump campaign this far?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, I've talked to several Trump campaign advisors, Anderson, who have made clear that Kamala Harris would certainly not have been their first choice in terms of if they were able to pick somebody who they saw as kind of the best target as Joe Biden's running mate. They would have preferred to have Susan Rice or Karen Bass, for example, someone who they could have painted far more easily as part of that radical left. But, nonetheless, they are still certainly making that attack.

And one senior Trump campaign aide told me that they actually believe that Kamala Harris is the perfect pick, because this person believes that Kamala Harris will show up Biden with the energy that she brings to the ticket and make him look weak.

[17:50:08]

Of course, we know that using Joe Biden's age against him has certainly been a key point of the Trump campaigns attacks. Now, that is kind of the background -- back room analysis from some Trump campaign aides.

Let me read you the official statement from the Trump campaign which came from Senior Advisor, Katrina Pierson. She says in a statement, "In her failed attempts at running for president, Kamala Harris gleefully embraced the left's radical manifesto, calling for trillions of dollars in new taxes and backing Bernie Sanders' government takeover of health care. She is proof that Joe Biden is an empty shell being filled with the extreme agenda of the radicals on the left".

And so you can see there, Anderson, even though it may be harder to pay Kamala Harris as someone who is a part of the radical left that President Trump has been talking a lot about lately, they are still going to follow that path. In fact, they already released a web video that goes after Kamala Harris on those very same points.

Now, as for the President, he tweeted out that video but we haven't yet heard from him directly talking about Kamala Harris. But we did hear from him this morning in an interview where he was talking about the impact of a potential Joe Biden vice presidential pick. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had to pick a woman.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He said that and, you know, some people would say that men are insulted by that. And some people would say it's fine. I don't know. I will say this, people don't vote for the vice -- you know, this is history. This isn't necessarily me.

This is history because we have a great Vice President Mike Pence, he's been incredible, actually. He's been a great Vice President and done a really, really good job in everything I've given them and, but people don't vote for the Vice President, they really don't. In theory, it doesn't matter much but maybe with him, it probably matters much more than it normally does for the obvious reason.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And you can see there, the President seems to be trying to downplay the impact that a vice presidential pick could have in terms of boosting Joe Biden. But, Anderson, we know as recently as two weeks ago, the President said that Kamala Harris would be a fine choice as Joe Biden's vice presidential pick. And even during her presidential campaign, the President and many of his advisors viewed her as a formidable opponents, should she win the Democratic nomination. Anderson?

COOPER: Jeremy Diamond, Jeremy, thanks very much.

Back to David Gregory. David, not surprising, you know, what we're hearing from both the campaign and obviously the President, obviously that, you know, they will develop their message in the weeks ahead.

GREGORY: Yes. I don't really see it going that far. I mean, again, we're in such a unique circumstance here with the pandemic, with the racial unrest in the country, with so much unrest in our national life. The idea of, you know, attacking her as being too progressive or, you know, that idea of being part of the radical left, I don't think that's going to hold. There are going to be targets of opportunity, there's no question.

And I think even supporters, even moderate Democrats would say she's -- her views are still very much a work in progress. She called for middle class tax cuts. She wouldn't commit to getting rid of private insurance. So there's going to be elements of the left in this country that do not support her. But look, the notion that people are going to think that Joe Biden is an empty suit, who's going to be unduly influenced by his vice presidential pick, I don't think that's the case. I think this is -- it's a safe pick. I think it gives him vibrance and energy and ideas and strength.

Yes, I think moments like a vice presidential debate, she'll perform very well. She'll be attacked. But I think Joe Biden wanted to make this pick. This is his first presidential pick, right? That's what's important about these things.

And one last thing, Anderson, if they become president, vice president, she becomes the future of the Democratic Party. That's a very important statement that was made today.

COOPER: Yes, it certainly was. David Gregory, thanks.

Nia-Malika Henderson is with us. Nia, to David's last point, obviously, Kamala Harris has, you know, wants to have a future in politics. It's not clear. Obviously, you know, if President Biden does -- if Vice President Biden becomes President Biden, what would happen about a second term? Obviously, that's remains to be seen.

But it's clearly something she would be interested in as opposed to some of the other potential vice presidential candidates who they were considering, who had made it clear they weren't really interested in trying to go for the top job.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Right. And she shouldn't be interested in going for the top job, if she ends up being vice president. We clearly know she was interested in a top job when she ran for president. I do want to go back to something that David Gregory said, though. This idea that Joe Biden picking a woman of color is a safe choice, I wholeheartedly disagree.

If you know anything about racism, you know anything about sexism and you've been on the other end of those very powerful forces in American history and certainly in American political history, then we know that this isn't a safe choice.

[17:55:06]

I mean, if you look around, how many black women CEOs are there, how many black women governors are there? None. How many black women senators have there been too?

COOPER: Yes. HENDERSON: How many black women bosses have any of us have, really?

COOPER: Yes.

HENDERSON: So this idea that this is safe and conventional, it's just not true.

COOPER: And, I mean, there's -- there is a reason it has not happened before. And, I mean, to say that -- yes, you're absolutely right. The -- It's going to be fascinating. Again, I'm just really so curious as to see what this campaign actually looks like. I mean, you've covered campaigns before. What are they going to do?

HENDERSON: Right. I mean, we don't know. This is uncharted territory. They're not going to be any big rallies. I think -- One of the things that we know about Kamala Harris is she's good at creating big moments, right? If you think about what happened on that debate stage, you think about her questioning during some of these judiciary and intelligence committee hearings, she understands --

COOPER: Yes.

HENDERSON: -- you know moments, she understands how --

COOPER: Nia, I'm sorry --

HENDERSON: She understands what social media too.

COOPER: Nia, I got to go. The President having questioned --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you -- do you fear that this could be your Herbert Hoover moment, if you do not reach a deal with Congress to set up a new CARES Act?

TRUMP: No, we are not allowing that to happen. We're stopping evictions. We are stopping evictions. We're not going to let that happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And also --

TRUMP: We're not going to evict people. We're not going to let people -- the Democrats, maybe they don't care, but I care. And we signed an executive offer -- you know, executive order. You know that, right? And we are not letting people be evicted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a suggestion --

TRUMP: Please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, President Trump. If I could have two questions, I'd like to ask you one about Senator Harris's record and then a different one about FISA abuse.

TRUMP: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, regarding Senator Harris's record: You had a pretty quick response to that. You had an ad out that said that she was a phony. And I wanted to drill down --

TRUMP: That she was a what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A phony. A phony. And I wanted to ask about a specific example that a lot of people thought was a phony moment. As San Francisco D.A., she oversaw, according to the Mercury News, 1,900 marijuana convictions. But she was asked in an interview last year if she had smoked marijuana, and she appeared to joke and, according to some people, lie, and say that she was listening to Snoop Dogg and Tupac, while -- their music hadn't come out at the time, while she said she was smoking pot and listening to it.

Why would she lie about that? Do you see that as more evidence -- is her past on marijuana a liability?

TRUMP: Well, she lied. I mean, she said things that were untrue. She is a person that's told many, many stories that weren't true. She's very big into raising taxes. She wants to slash funds for our military at a level that nobody's -- can even believe.

She is against fracking. Fracking is -- she's against petroleum products. I mean, how do you do that and go into Pennsylvania or Ohio or Oklahoma or the great state of Texas? She is against fracking. Fracking is a big deal.

She is in favor of socialized medicine, where you're going to lose your doctors, you're going to lose your plans. She wants to take your healthcare plans away from 180 million Americans, a 180 million Americans that are very happy with their health insurance. And she wants to take that away.

So she was my number one pick. I mean, she was -- as they would say, because hopefully you'll start college football -- she was my number one draft pick. And we'll see how she works out.

She did very, very poorly in the primaries, as you know. She was expected to do well, and she was -- she ended up at right around 2 percent, and spent a lot of money. She had a lot of things happening. And so I was a little surprised that he picked her. I've been watching her for a long time, and I was a little surprised.

She was extraordinarily nasty to Kavanaugh -- Judge Kavanaugh, then; now Justice Kavanaugh. She was nasty to a level that was just a horrible thing. The way she was -- the way she treated now-Justice Kavanaugh. And I won't forget that soon.

So she did very poorly in the primaries, and now she's chosen. So let's see how that all works out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should supporters of marijuana legalization vote for you, rather than her, because she convicted so many people in the past?

TRUMP: I can't tell you what she's voting for. I don't think she knows what -- I think Joe knows even less than she does. But I was a little surprised at the pick. A lot of people were saying, that might be the pick. I was more surprised than anything else, because she did so poorly. Many people did much better than her in the primary. She did very poorly in the primaries. And that's like a poll. You know, that's like a poll.

Please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I also ask you about FISA abuse, President Trump?

TRUMP: Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, about FISA abuse: So, now it's widely accepted among Republicans that there was FISA abuse --

TRUMP: Tremendous FISA abuse here.