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The Situation Room

Democrats, President In Stand-Off Over Funding For Post Office 80 Days Before Election Day; President Donald Trump On Mail-In Voting: "It's Going To Be A Catastrophe"; Facing Sagging Poll Numbers, Trump Claims To Have "Silent Majority"; More Than 2,000 People Dead From COVID-19 In Miami-Dade County; Economic Uncertainty Fuels Food Insecurity In America. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired August 15, 2020 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, SITUATION ROOM: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of "The Situation Room."

We begin with the United States about to pass another horrific milestone in this Coronavirus crisis. Nearly 170,000 Americans have now lost their lives to the virus and the situation is no better around the world.

The World Health Organization is reporting today a record number of new COVID-19 cases, nearly 300,000 confirmed cases around the world in just one day this while the U.S. is on track for another day reporting an average of more than 1,000 deaths from COVID-19 in a 24-hour period.

At the same time, a new fight has broken out here in Washington up on Capitol Hill over funding for the U.S. Post Office. A critical debate during this pandemic when so many Americans will be looking to cast their ballot by mail, all of this happening only 80 days from Election Day.

And on the weekend before the Democratic National Convention, when Former Vice President Joe Biden will officially become his party's nominee for President. Just an hour or so ago, the president refused to back down when asked about the requested funding for the U.S. Post Office.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is near the president's golf resort New Jersey for us. CNN Reporter Daniel Dale is here in Washington. He's our fact checker. Kristen, first to you, the president spoke to you. You were there other reporters just a little while ago.

He's standing firmly by his conviction that a presidential election dependent on the U.S. mail will not be legitimate. Update our viewers on what he said.

KIRSTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, I just want to start with two basic facts before we go into what he said. One is that as you said, millions of Americans, many of them for the first time, are expected to vote by mail this year because of the pandemic. That is just a fact.

Again, state law, that's who dictates that. That is going to happen. The other fact is that there is little to no proof of fraud in mail-in voting. There is certainly no proof of widespread fraud when it comes to mail-in voting. So I just want to put both of those out there.

President Trump doubling down on his claims that mail-in voting leads to widespread corruption and fraud and blaming Democrats for what they have seen at the postal service. Just to go through some of what they saw, they saw changes that his Postmaster General a Trump ally and mega donor made were causing massive delays.

And to be very clear, this isn't just affecting the election. This is also affecting people getting critical medications that they need, critical documents that they need. This is a huge problem. Now President Trump linking all of this together saying that the Democrat was the ones who were actually withholding the funding that would help the Post Office gets back on track.

And we have to point out here two things, one Democrats are the one who passed a bill back in May that had had billions in funding for the post office. So that is one clear thing to point out here. The other being that there seems to be no indication from him or no acknowledgment from him that a lot of Republicans also want to give money to the post office.

We have heard from Republican Senators, particularly in more rural states, who are deeply concerned that this is how their constituents communicate with others that are how they get their much-needed item so this is not really a partisan issue anymore.

Now President Trump when it comes to mail-in voting has not backed down. He has tried tonight, in particular, especially since we learned that he had filed for his own absentee ballot, to really stress the difference between absentee and mail-in voting. Take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Louis, he is working very hard. But as you know, the Democrats aren't approving the proper funding for postal and they're not approving the proper funding for the ridiculous thing that they want to do which is all mail-in voting universal you could call mail-in-voting.

Again absentee voting is great. You request - I'm an absentee voter because I requested, I got, and then I sent in my vote. So that works out very well. That's what we've had. But now they want to send in millions and millions of ballots. And you see what's happening. They're being lost. They're being discarded. They're finding them in piles. It's going to be a catastrophe.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HOLMES: And I'm sure Daniel will go over with you from his fact research that he's done. But again, most of what President Trump says and the examples he gives when it comes to fraud and the catastrophe are not related to mail-in voting, something to make clear here.

And I do want to know one thing that we had not heard from him he really praised that Postmaster General Louis DeJoy. He said that he had his backing. When asked about specific policies, he said he didn't really know about that, he was trying.

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HOLMES: DeJoy was trying to make the post office great again, the Postal Service great again that he was a brilliant businessman. This is the first time we've heard President Trump support really DeJoy in what he's doing at the Postal Service.

And just to note as we have talked about all week the Inspector General at the Postal Service is actually reviewing the changes that DeJoy has made after concerns from lawmakers, Democrats, Republicans, state officials and postal workers that they were going to slow down mail and impact the election.

BLITZER: Kristen, standby I want to bring Daniel into this conversation. Daniel, the president during that 30-minute statement and then answering reporters' questions made several misleading comments. He also didn't dismiss those so-called birther conspiracies about Senator Kamala Harris as false. Tell us about that.

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: He didn't, Wolf. What he does is play a double game. So, he says that he is personally not the one who is questioning Senator Harris' eligibility. And again, this is non-sense. She is eligible. She's a citizen. She was born in Oakland, California. He says, it's not me, but other people have questions. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have nothing to do with that. I read something about it, and I will say that he is a brilliant lawyer. I guess he wrote an article about it. So I know nothing about it, but it's not something that bothers me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, when you do that--

TRUMP: Why do you say that? I just don't know about it. But it's not something that we will be pursuing. Let me put it differently--

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President you know.

TRUMP: --let me be - let me put it differently. Don't tell me what I know. Let me put it differently. To me, it doesn't bother me at all. I don't know about it. I read one quick article. The lawyer happens to be a brilliant lawyer, as you probably know.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DALE: So, this gives him the veneer of deniability. He can tell his supporters and they can come back to the media and they can say if not him saying it he said he wasn't saying it. He is just saying that other people are asking the question.

But Wolf by saying what he says, he gives oxygen to this again nonsensical inaccurate conspiracy theory. The president also made a number of clearly false claims that you played the clip where he tried to make a distinction between absentee voting and other kinds of voting.

He said I'm an absentee voter. Actually in Florida, he's just a mail voter that state does not make any distinction between people who vote by mail when out of state or when in state it's all no excuse. Anyone can vote by mail.

He also delivered his usual false attacks on mail voting. For example he keeps saying there was fraud and missing ballots in this New York City primary involving Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney. There's no indication there was fraud whatsoever, although there were non-fraud disputes about things that missing signatures and missing postmarks.

He again delivered a bunch of inaccurate attacks on opponent Former Vice President Joe Biden, for example saying Biden is "Against steel". Biden's written campaigns plans include numerous references to promoting the U.S. steel industry. His economic proposal has been praised by the United Steelworkers Union.

And Trump also said that Biden wants to quadruple your taxes. He already suggested that he has previously said Biden wants to double or triple them. So that's inflation. None of those claims are even remotely accurate.

Biden's proposed tax hikes focus on people making more than $400,000 per year and independent analyses from both right leaning and left leaning think tanks say that most people a vast majority of people might see increases of less than 1 percent of after tax income. So, Trump is usual is grossly exaggerating.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much Daniel Dale and Kristen Holmes. Guys, thank you very much. Later this week the president will be stumping just outside Joe Biden's hometown in Pennsylvania on the very same day Biden is set to formally accept the Democratic Presidential Nomination.

The Trump Campaign hoping there is enough support in that key battleground state of Pennsylvania, one of the several swing states in which Biden, at least right now, 80 days before the election, is polling ahead of President Trump.

Our Senior Political Commentator David Axelrod is joining us right now. David here's what the president said, again, just a little while ago about his levels of popular support. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: If we have the success - I think we have a silent majority, the likes of which has never been seen before. I think you read about it, where 62 percent of the people say they're not even telling the truth on polling and where the polling is fake where they do registered voters and where they do many more Democrats than they do Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, what's your reaction when you hear that?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think we've learned over time that the president considers a poll fake if the poll is not favorable to him. But there is an avalanche of data that suggests that he's in trouble right now, and there's a reason for it.

And it's very much connected to his denial of the Coronavirus and its severity and the state in which the country he's leading finds itself in part because he hasn't been serious about dealing with this virus.

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AXELROD: He's in a deep hole nationally. But he is also trailing in almost every battleground state. And this is from a multiplicity of polls, not just one poll, but averages of polls. So, you know, he - we will know soon enough if he is right or if he's not, but there sure isn't anything to suggest that there's a silent majority out there that is not telling the truth about who they support for president.

BLITZER: He keeps saying that there's a whole bunch of people out there who are afraid to tell the truth to a pollster about their support for Donald Trump. Do you buy that?

AXELROD: You know, no, I don't buy that. I think that there were some technical issues with some polling back in 2016. But remember, Wolf, the national polls on the average suggested that Donald Trump would lose the popular vote by about 3 percent.

He lost just about by that margin, well within the margin of error. He lost by 3 million votes. So, the national polls were correct in 2016, and there's no reason to believe they're incorrect now.

BLITZER: The president also said just a little while ago a very glowing report about the current economic crisis here in the United States. He is very upbeat, even in the midst of this pandemic. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If I win, which I hope to win. How can you not when you see numbers like these both on the virus and on the economy. I mean, we should win. We should all be keeping this incredible thing going. And I built it once and I'll build it again. I've already - I think the hardest part is done in terms of the economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: So his retail spending is an all-time high. He went on and on. In terms of the economy, the level of optimism we hear from him clearly is not squaring with the actual numbers, the millions and millions of people who have lost their jobs and the people who are simply waiting in long lines to get food.

AXELROD: Yes, I mean, I think that's the problem. You know, the president believes that he can spin anything. He's been selling all his life. He sold Trump University. He sold steaks. He sold lots of different things. And he believes that he can spin his way through this.

The fact of the matter is you can't spin a pandemic. You can't spin an economic crisis because people are living the reality and they're not going to resolve the dissonance in favor of your fantasy. Kellyanne Conway said at the beginning of the administration the president has alternative facts, but people are living the facts right now, Wolf.

And that is a big problem for the president because when he tries to spin, it just us frustrates Americans. It's one of the reasons why his numbers have eroded on issues like strength. The other day there was a Fox News Poll that showed that Americans were more apt to say that Biden is a stronger leader than Trump because he doesn't look like he's squaring up to the crisis and acting on it. Instead, he's trying to spin it away and I think that's hurting him.

BLITZER: The Democratic National Convention begins Monday night. We'll of course have extensive coverage. Biden likes as all of us who have covered him over the years interacting with people on the campaign trail. So will the virtual nature of this convention have any effect on his ability to drum up enthusiasm and support?

AXELROD: Look, I think you raise a very good point. One of the things about conventions is that you can see the enthusiasm in the room. You can feel the enthusiasm in the room. It's a measure right there of your popularity.

It's one of the reasons why President Trump tried so hard to persuade some state to allow him to have an in-person gathering this time because he thrives on that. But on the other hand, there is - there are advantages, I think, to the virtual format in terms of your ability to kind of tightly control the program, to make it more entertaining, to make it more fast-paced, to insert, as I think the Democrats will, a lot of testimonials from everyday Americans in which people can see themselves.

So, I think that there are tradeoffs. Enthusiasm is part of it. But you can build a story through these four nights about where the country is? Where you want to lead it? And why Joe Biden is the person to do it.

And they have the opportunity to do it in a very, very well-planned and choreographed convention that may be better to control and produce than the normal confab than we're used to.

BLITZER: It will be totally different for all of us, especially us journalists always for years and years we're going to the Democratic and the Republican Conventions. But guess what we're not going anywhere this time around over the next two weeks. So, David Axelrod--

AXELROD: Unfortunately.

BLITZER: --I know. Thanks very much for that. Coming up, the U.S. has more Coronavirus cases than any other country.

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BLITZER: And one area seen as the epicenter for the virus here in the United States just passed a grim milestone. The Mayor of Miami Beach, Florida, standing by live. We have lots to discuss when we come back.

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BLITZER: Nationwide right now the number of people infected with Coronavirus and too many cases people dying from Coronavirus is not - repeat, not - slowing dramatically even though some states are reporting lower numbers of new cases and people that need to be hospitalized.

A very big exception right now, Florida, where health officials just today reported more than 6,000 new Coronavirus cases, 6,000 people in just Florida in one day. I want to bring in the Mayor of Miami Beach, Mayor Dan Gelber. Mayor thank you so much for joining us and I want to get to the Coronavirus developments in Florida in just a moment.

[19:20:00]

BLITZER: But I wanted to get your thoughts on what we just heard from the president. What about his deep concerns right now about mail-in voting, which is going to be extensive? A lot of people, especially older people, are afraid to wait in long lines at polling booths.

They want to mail in their ballots. What are your concerns as far as Miami Beach, your residents, you've got a lot of elderly people there who presumably are nervous about going to a polling place?

MAYOR DAN GELBER, MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: What he's done is fabricated a concern that doesn't exist. We've had mail-in voting. You don't have to be gone. You can just decide that's what you want to do for the longest time.

So it's a safe and secure way to do it. In the middle of a pandemic, especially here in Dade County, you're still seeing lots of cases. We still have a high positivity rate; it's actually a healthier way to vote. What he's doing is actually endangering people by giving them a choice where they have to actually vote in person because he's trying to scare them from actually wanting to vote by mail.

I think he's trying to scare people from voting, which is almost what you do in an authoritarian country, not in a democracy.

BLITZER: Yes, it's a real worrisome development right now. And obviously the post office, the postal system, they need money. Congress is in recess right now. So, let's see what happens on that front. Let's dig a little bit deeper, Mayor, into Coronavirus.

I understand officials where you are reporting more than 2,000 people have died just in Miami-Dade County. As a Mayor, as a leader how do you process those truly awful numbers? Did you ever think it would get this bad?

GELBER: Well, it's amazing. I mean, they reported almost 50 deaths in just Dade County. We surpassed 2,000 and I think in the next three or four days the state will surpass 10,000 people who have died. And, you know, we're thinking about the death rate going down.

And we're hoping it's just a few dozen. Just think about what we're normalizing. We're literally normalizing dozens and dozens or 50 or more people dying every single day. That's something that's unimaginable at any other time.

But now it's sort of become just another news day. And that's - it's horrible. And frankly, I think people can't get used to it. We have to treat this as what it is, which is almost mass casualties every single day.

BLITZER: I know your county, Miami-Dade County, has a quarter of the COVID-19 cases in the entire State of Florida, more than any of the nearby counties, I understand, combined. Why do you think that is?

GELBER: Well, I think if you look at, sort of, you know, I think there may be mass transit. We have a lot of commercial, residential. We sort of like New York in that. We have a lot of commercial/residential properties people have encountered many incident to our buildings. There are a lot of connections.

But frankly, I think we're a community that in any other day would never be socially distancing itself. We're sort of into gatherings. Our economy is a hospitality economy. We're used to going to places to restaurants. All the great things what you love about Miami Beach and Dade County and Miami is exactly probably not the best thing to have in the middle of a pandemic where infections can happen.

BLITZER: Yes, nearly what 1,400 Americans died just yesterday in one day from Coronavirus? More than 1,000 Americans are dying almost every single day. It's hard to believe what's going on? These are not just numbers.

These are mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, friends of all of ours who are passing away, and there's no end in sight right now. Mayor Dan Gelber thanks so much for joining us. Good luck to everyone in Miami Beach.

GELBER: Thank you.

BLITZER: There's breaking news coming into "The Situation Room" right now. Big decision by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in her battle with the White House over funding for the U.S. Postal Service, we have details just ahead right here in "The Situation Room."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:25:00]

BLITZER: There's breaking news coming into "The Situation Room" right now. Sources now tell CNN that Democrats are considering cutting short the August recess for House members and bringing the House of Representatives back into session to deal with the postal service funding standoff which is part of the larger Coronavirus stimulus money fight.

House Democratic leaders spoke by phone this evening, we're told, one source telling CNN that possible House action could include forbidding the postal service to change sorting devices, prevent the closure of facilities, stopping any effort or overtime pay, or change the timing of mail delivery.

Democrats also may push for language requiring all ballot deliveries to have first class mail status. Neither chamber is currently scheduled to return until after Labor Day. That would mean after September 8th. It's unclear whether the U.S. Senate would follow the House's lead and cut its own resource short.

Amidst all of this, food insecurity here in the United States is top in the mind for so many families out of work right now, desperate for help, desperate to get food for their kids, searching for answers while Congress is on recess, far from Washington and nowhere near a dial that potentially could offer them a life-saving lifeline.

The pandemic has tested every American in one way or another, but for so many Americans, that means hunger. It's hard to believe but for so many Americans, hunger is at stake. CNN's Natasha Chen is joining us from Atlanta right now. Natasha, you were in a food bank in the Atlanta area earlier today tell us what you saw? How critical are these resources for family who relying on this food right now?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, you can actually tell how much this is needed by just seeing that the first people to arrive there this morning, got there three hours before the event began because they wanted to make sure they had a spot in line to get that food.

There were more than a hundred cars that we saw, multiple people, sometimes multiple families in each car, and the organizers told us that while they held these food distributions about once a quarter before the pandemic, now that has become every other week because of how much demand they're seeing, and they're saying the lines have just gotten longer.

We met some people in those lines who have lost their jobs due to COVID-19 and here is one woman, Vanessa Owens who talked to us about having to take care of her elderly mother and the types of people she has seen in those lines at the food banks recently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANESSA OWENS, RECEIVED FOOD FROM ATLANTA FOOD BANK: Absolutely. And I'm seeing more men, and that's hard for men, very hard for men because they are the breadwinners. So, I'm seeing more men put their pride to the side and I'm seeing more men getting in line and getting food for their families.

And I'm seeing, oh, my God, all ages. Can I say even the elderly -- even the elderly, I'm seeing more of them and it's a shame because they fought for us. We should be carrying them on our shoulders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: And we definitely saw the range of people that she is describing there today as well. I talked to some of them about how much they really need this immediate relief and some of them also expressed to me frustration with leadership at the state level, at the national level for the situation that we are in.

And right now in Georgia, there are still more than 3,000 new COVID-19 cases reported every day. It's been that way for more than a month, and just today, we learned of a 15-year-old boy who died of COVID-19 in the Metro Atlanta area.

The Public Health Department tells me that there were comorbidities in that case, but he is the second youngest in Georgia to die of COVID- 19. The youngest being a seven-year-old boy from Savannah with no underlying health conditions -- Wolf.

BLITZER: So heartbreaking indeed. And these food banks, as you know, Natasha, they're not just in the Atlanta area. They're popping up all over the country right now as people are desperate for food.

Natasha Chen reporting. Thank you very much.

Coming up, scientists here in the United States are developing a new strain of the coronavirus to be used in human challenge trials, as they're called. So what does that mean for the fight against the virus? We have new information. We will share it with you when we come back.

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BLITZER: Would you sign up to take part in what's being called the coronavirus challenge trial? It involves taking an experimental vaccine and letting yourself be intentionally exposed to the virus to see if it actually works.

Many scientists say challenge trials are too risky. Dr. Anthony Fauci says he called the approach a Plan D at best. Dr. Seema Yasmin is joining us right now. She's a CNN medical analyst and former C.D.C. disease detective. Also with us, Dr. Jeremy Faust, and emergency physician in Boston.

Dr. Yasmin, U.S. scientists are working to create a strain of the coronavirus that could be used in these so-called human challenge trials. Help us better understand what this is and why it's actually being developed to try to deal with this virus. DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: So, Wolf, challenge trials

really help you accelerate and speed up vaccine development, because instead of just giving somebody a dose of the vaccine, sending them home and waiting to see if they become exposed to the infection.

With a challenge trial, you're intentionally giving them a dose of the very virus that can make them sick, but which you're hoping the vaccine will protect them from. And so you just get to see in a much more condensed period of time, whether your vaccine works or not.

They are new actually. We've been doing vaccine challenge trials for years for diseases like malaria, typhoid and cholera. But the big caveat is that with those diseases, we have medicines for them. We know how to treat them. They've been around for a long time.

COVID-19 is only what? Seven and a half months new, and so we don't really have curative treatments for it. We're still seeing people die from COVID-19 and that's exactly why we're not seeing any COVID-19 challenge trials happening right now and why Dr. Fauci is referring to the possibility of that as Plan D or just a contingency plan.

Lots of ethical and clinical challenges there. So, we'll see if they have to be used, and if they do, that won't be until much later in the year.

BLITZER: Very good explanation. Dr. Faust, what does all of this mean -- a challenge trial -- in the bigger picture of where we are in the development of an actual vaccine?

DR. JEREMY FAUST, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: Well, it might give it a sense that people are impatient that we want those Phase 3 trials so quickly that we're willing to cut corners.

But I don't think we should do that because we have, unfortunately, a situation where there's so much virus that we're going to get answers to Phase 3 trials soon, sooner than we ever might in other situations.

So we should really insist on good science. There are, I think, eight trials, eight vaccines in Phase 3 trials right now. So let's insist on good science.

The challenge idea is a bit of a Hail Mary and it could actually backfire because you don't know if it would help those who are most prone to get the worst infections. You wouldn't be challenging the elderly for example.

So let's insist on Phase 3. I think, IT is the plan. I agree with Dr. Fauci.

[19:40:05]

BLITZER: Yeah, a lot of people do indeed. You know, Dr. Yasmin, the President has said he thinks it's possible there could be some good news about an actual vaccine just ahead of the U.S. presidential election, November 3rd, but medical professionals say we shouldn't expect a widely available vaccine for quite some time. What are your thoughts on the optimism from the President?

YASMIN: So when I think about this, Wolf, I think about the history of vaccines, and I look at the fact that the quickest we've ever developed a vaccine, it took us four years, that was four mumps.

You think about polio, it took nine years. Chickenpox took us 34 years to figure out a vaccine because vaccines can be very tricky.

On average, it takes about 10.7 years to develop a vaccine and then make it readily available to everyone. So while I think it's good to have cautious optimism, I also think, Wolf, it's so important right now to communicate clearly with the public about how the vaccine development trials are happening, peel back the curtain on the scientific process and let people know that corners are not being cut, that safety is not being jeopardized.

Because my concern, and I've written about this for cnn.com is that what good is a vaccine if we end up with one this year, next year, the year after, and about half of Americans say that they won't get it.

We need there to be trust in vaccines. We need people to know that scientists are doing their best and not cutting corners on safety.

So optimism is fine, but we really need to be communicating clearly with the public and being realistic about this process.

BLITZER: Yes, it is so important there. Dr. Faust, this week, we also heard the C.D.C. say that if you had and recovered from COVID and aren't showing any symptoms, you don't necessarily need to quarantine or test again for the virus for three months. How should we interpret that updated guidance from the C.D.C.?

FAUST: Well, the first thing is, there is a real communication malfunction with the way this was just received by the general public. The bigger takeaway here though is that we don't have enough tests, so we are talking about anything we can do to decrease the testing that's being done because we don't have enough. Testing -- we have to test more and we have to test smarter.

And so yes, it's possible that the C.D.C. now has this right and that we're not so worried about reinfections driving this. But the greater point is that anytime that we're talking about holding back tests, I'm a little concerned we have now a new saliva test that's just being floated, and it looks like the F.D.A. is moving forward. That's a possible real breakthrough.

Because as we move forward into the fall, with schools reopening, better testing really has to happen for us to know where we are in this marathon because we don't really know what wave we're in right now, and testing helps.

BLITZER: It's so critical -- the testing. Dr. Faust, thank you. Dr. Yasmin, as usual, thanks to you as well.

We're going to have a lot more coming up on the coronavirus pandemic, all the late breaking developments here in the U.S. and around the world.

But there's other international news we're following right now. Look at this. Thousands of protesters are marching in the streets of Belarus today calling for a new and fair election.

We're going live to Minsk when we come back.

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BLITZER: We'll have much more of the coronavirus pandemic coming up, but first chaos, outrage and a demand for change unfolding right now on the streets of Belarus.

Thousands of demonstrators marching through the capital city of Minsk today calling for a fair election and deeming last week's vote totally rigged. Over the last week, officials say nearly 7,000 people have been arrested.

And just today, the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo echoing those protesters saying the elections were, quote: "weren't free and weren't fair." That from Pompeo.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is joining us live from Minsk right now. Fred, these protesters are taking a real risk right now. Update our viewers on the very latest because it's awful what we're seeing.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right, Wolf. It certainly is awful and these people are risking a lot, and it certainly does take a lot of courage as well.

One of the things we have to keep in mind, Wolf, is that Belarus is one of the most repressive countries in the world and Alexander Lukashenko, who has ruled this country with an iron fist.

For about a quarter century, he is one of the most repressive leaders in the world. And as you mentioned, thousands of people have already been arrested and a lot of those people have been beaten while they were in detention.

There were people who came to us and told us about torture while they were in detention; of beatings, people being crammed into cells, put into stress positions; women being forced to strip, being forced to kneel on the ground, and then some of these protesters actually being paraded on state TV. So a lot of people extremely angry.

And despite all of these repressions, people are still coming out by the tens of thousands into the streets, and it seems to us, Wolf, as though the crowds are actually swelling. There's more people coming out, and it seems as though a lot of people have lost their fear.

Now, Lukashenko still claims that he won the election getting about 80 percent of the vote. He, at this point in time, doesn't show any signs of wanting to step down. In fact, he had a big phone call with Vladimir Putin of Russia today. But the opposition says that's not happening. They're still calling

for him to resign. They want new elections, and they certainly want all of this violence by the government authorities to end.

They did score a few victories over the past couple of days. In fact, yesterday we were on hand when they went to the Parliament building, the riot police came out. Everybody thought that there was going to be beatings that were going to take place, but the riot police then actually put down their shields and people embraced there.

It's still a long way to go in Belarus. However, right now, you can feel some momentum with the opposition. They've called for big protests to take place tomorrow again.

[19:50:09]

PLEITGEN: And also called for a general strike that's supposed to take place on Monday here in Belarus. So pretty big events. And you're absolutely right, Wolf, a lot of courage by the people here.

They tell us everybody that we speak to say, look, we are very much afraid for what could happen to us. But they also believe that if they don't come out now and demand change, change might not happen at all in this country -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We of course, salute all of those people. And we of course, salute all of the journalists, including you who are taking a big chance reporting on what's going on right now.

Be careful over there. Fred Pleitgen joining us from Minsk. Thanks for that report.

Let's continue our analysis right now. Samantha Vinograd is joining us. She's a CNN national security analyst. She served on the National Security Council during the Obama administration. Sam, thanks so much for joining us.

It seems like a long time ago, but I remember when I was in Minsk back at the end of 1991, early 1992. There, I'm doing a stand up. I was CNN's military affairs correspondent.

I had gone there for the first meeting of the Commonwealth of Independent States, the former Republics of the Soviet Union, which had just collapsed.

And we saw protests, we saw the unrest, the end of the Cold War. It seemed a time of such great optimism. But now all of these years later, almost 30 years later, Sam, we're seeing an authoritarian leader, people desperate for real democracy.

It's an awful, as I said, awful situation unfolding in Belarus right now. What do you make of all of this?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, first off, Wolf, you haven't changed a bit since that live shot, but in terms of what's happening on the ground in Belarus, as you mentioned, this is a horrifying situation.

That said, anybody that has followed the course of history in Belarus under Lukashenko isn't overly surprised by the fact that he rigged this election, nor are we surprised about what he is doing vis-a-vis peaceful protesters.

Something has changed this time around, however, and that's the role of the United States. Under previous administrations, the United States used to be a champion for democracy. That was largely based upon our credibility and the fact that other countries believed that we practice what we were preaching.

This time around, frankly, the United States doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to urging authoritarian leaders to protect democratic freedoms, like the right to peacefully protest or to have a free and fair election.

Based on that, when it comes to protecting democracy, there is a gaping hole where the United States used to be and that really exposes peaceful protesters and democracy more generally to more assaults because the United States is not there to credibly defend them.

BLITZER: Is the President missing a real opportunity, Sam right now, by not speaking up personally, more publicly, in support of these protesters, at least the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has.

VINOGRAD: Wolf, President Trump's statement on this just wouldn't pass the laugh test. It would be a waste of airtime. The President making a statement on promoting democracy in Belarus would just be an exercise in hypocrisy.

What should be happening now is the United States should be working with E.U. member states to try to figure out punitive measures to put on the table to try to change Lukashenko's thought calculus.

Now, the United States could implement unilateral moves like sanctions under the Global Magnitsky Act, for example, or it could work to really push again the E.U. member states who have a much larger trading relationship with Belarus to issue sanctions against Lukashenko and other officials involved in this exercise.

It is important to keep in mind that there's an additional player on the playing field and that's Vladimir Putin. As our colleague, Fred Pleitgen just mentioned, Lukashenko and Putin reportedly had a call today. Putin appears to be siding with Lukashenko and that's going to likely factor into President Trump's calculus here.

We know that he doesn't often like to get crosswise with Putin. So when it comes to the United States working behind the scenes trying to change the situation, President Trump may be reticent to do much of anything if again, it risks getting crosswise with Vladimir Putin.

BLITZER: That's an important point as well. Samantha Vinograd, as usual, thank you so much for joining us.

VINOGRAD: Thank you. BLITZER: We're following some breaking news here in THE SITUATION

ROOM coming out of Chicago right now where protesters against police brutality are facing off with police right now. We're showing you some video that we just got. We're going to bring you late breaking developments.

Our Omar Jimenez is on the scene for us in Chicago. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Republican National Convention begins a week from Monday, but even with President Trump trying to gin up doubts about mail-in voting, there's an aspect of the last election that could come roaring back into view right now in 2020, electoral votes. It's the subject of a brand new CNN special report, "Count on Controversy: Inside the Electoral College." Here's a preview. Watch this

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 2000, in one of the closest presidential contest that we've ever had, George W. Bush had 271 Electoral College votes. Remember you need 270 to win.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Miami.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Al Gore won the popular vote in that election by about 500,000 votes.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): And that's because of the Electoral College and its winner take all system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which means that if you win a state by one vote, you get all of the Electoral College votes in that state, which could lead to some pretty strong disproportionate outcomes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a system that systematically says to people, you don't matter if you don't come from a swing state, and even if you come from a swing state, like Florida, if you don't happen to be in the majority, we're going to count your votes for the purpose of just throwing them away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that somebody can be elected as the President of the United States without winning the popular vote, is certainly unsettling to many, confusing to many.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Keep America great.

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

BERMAN (voice over): Even more unsettling to some, it could happen again, in even bigger fashion.

Donald Trump trailed by almost three million in votes in 2016. In 2020, he could conceivably trail by even more and still emerge victorious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The host of the CNN special, John Berman is joining us right now. Great work, John. Now, the big question, could all this happen again in November?

BERMAN: Absolutely. It could happen again. A lot of people have run the numbers, including our very own Harry Enten, and Donald Trump could actually lose by even more than he did in 2016 and still win the Electoral College.

He lost in 2016 in the popular vote by about three million, it could go up to five million and he still could emerge with enough electoral votes to win.

Why is that? There are a few reasons. One, he runs better in the battleground states than he does in the country as a whole. Those battleground states are wider by about seven percent and they have about 10 percent more non-college whites, which are one of Donald Trump's strongest groups. So it absolutely could happen if this race tightens a little.

One thing unlikely to happen that happened in 2016, in 2016, you saw a bunch of those so-called faithless electors try to challenge the election and change the outcome when the Electoral College actually voted. The Supreme Court has made that more difficult.

So there are many more hurdles in place now in 2020 than there were in 2016.

We talked to some of those faithless electors, you're seeing them on the screen right now, they took their case all the way to the Supreme Court and lost.

BLITZER: After everything you learned in your reporting for this special report, what are the prospects of doing away with the Electoral College and simply having a popular vote determine who the President of United States is going to be?

BERMAN: Look, that's a great question. It would take a constitutional amendment. The last time it got even close was 1970, two-thirds of the House, two-thirds of the Senate, three quarters of the states. That's unlikely to happen.

There is an effort out there called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact to get every state to agree to go with whoever the national popular vote winner is. Right now, they need to amass about 70 more electoral votes worth of states to do that.

It is unclear whether or not that is possible. It is unclear whether that would hold up in court -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks so much for doing this special report, John Berman. And to our viewers, the CNN special report, "Count On Controversy: Inside the Electoral College" airs tonight 10:00 p.m. Eastern right after THE SITUATION ROOM.

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