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CDC Forecast Projects Up To 211,000 U.S. COVID Deaths By The End Of Month; Sweden's Controversial Pandemic Response Seen As Both Cautionary Tale And Success Story; Mayor Suspends Rochester Police Officers Involved In Black Man's Death; Biden Speaks with Jacob Blake by Phone as He Meets with Family in Kenosha; A.G. Barr Denies Systemic Racism in Policing; Biden's Kenosha Visit a Contrast to Trump's, which Emphasized Law-and Order Themes; Trump again Suggest NC Residents Vote Twice to "Test" System. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 03, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

Figure though President Trump himself has remained silent on the issue.

One of the big questions now is what consequences that may Russia face as the U.S. and its allies decide how to respond.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Thank you so much. Matthew Chance. Our coverage on CNN continues right now.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Jim Acosta in the Situation Room. And we're following breaking news.

Joe Biden speaking a short time ago with Jacob Blake by phone as the Democratic presidential nominee met with Blake's family during his visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin. In a moment we'll talk to two attorneys who are in the room.

And at a community meeting afterward, Biden blasted President Trump accusing him of legitimizing hatred and racism in the U.S.

There's also breaking pandemic news as the death toll in the U.S. is now top 186,000 people after a second, consecutive day of more than 1,000 COVID deaths across the country. The CDC has raised some hope, with its notice to states to prepare to distribute a vaccine in late October but Dr. Anthony Fauci is casting doubt on that timing saying a vaccine by October is unlikely, but not impossible.

But first more on the breaking news out of Kenosha and Joe Biden's conversation with Jacob Blake. Family attorney Ben Crump says Blake shared the pain he's enduring. CNN National Correspondent Sara Sidner is in Kenosha for us.

Sara, Crump and Biden are revealing new details from this call. SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right and presidential candidate Joe Biden just left here a few minutes ago, the community churches where he had a meeting with the community members here in Kenosha after the shooting of Jacob Blake who was shot seven times in the back, but he made very clear that he did meet with the family. Unlike President Trump, he was able actually to talk to Jacob Blake himself who is paralyzed from the waist down. He spoke to him in the hospital.

He also spoke with Jacob Blake's father, his mother and sisters. Here's a little bit of their conversation and what he said happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I had an opportunity to spend some time with Jake up on the phone. He's out of ICU. We spoke for about 15 minutes. His brother and two sisters, his dad and his mom on the telephone. And I spoken to him a lot before but we spent time together, my wife.

And he talked about how nothing was going to defeat him. How whether he walk again or not he was not going to give up. We talked about some in my chart, Church (Ph) father based on 23rd Sama (ph). He raised you up in eagle's wings and bury you on the breath of dawn until we, you know, keep eating God told in the palm of his hand that we meet again.

Well, I think ultimately my spin on least with a lot of people is they understand that fear doesn't solve problems, only hope to us.

What I came away with was the overwhelming sense of resilience and optimism that they have about the kind of response to getting him and his mom talked about. We asked my wife asked to say a prayer. And his mom said a prayer. She said, I'm praying for Jacob and I'm praying for the policeman, as well. I'm praying that things change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And people here outside of the Community Church and those who were actually able to get inside to speak with Joe Biden, we know they had to be double mask. They had to have to masks on for safety when it comes to coronavirus.

We spoke to one of the people who actually stood up and spoke to a vice presidential, sorry, presidential candidate Joe Biden. And basically she said to him, look, you know, it's really important that you understand how we're seeing things. And to her, her name is Portia Bennett (ph), she says, look, if a police officer, if someone is accused of homicide, they need to be treated the same way whether they are a black man in this country or whether they are police officer, and she says she just didn't see that happening and wanted him to know that that is something that they will expect to happen now and also if he becomes the president.

So, he did a lot of listening to the community members here. And they were heartened, but they also expected to have receipts to see real policy change if he gets into office. Jim. ACOSTA: All right, there's pressure on Joe Biden too. All right, CNN Sara Sidner, thank you very much.

Let's get more on Biden's trip to Kenosha and the presidential campaign heating up. CNNs Ryan Nobles has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tonight the campaign is heating up.

BIDEN: The words of a president matter.

[17:05:01]

NOBLES: Just two days after President Trump's visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin, his opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden, is making the same trip.

BIDEN: I thought you could defeat hate. He only hides. Only hides.

And when someone in authority breathes oxygen under that rock, it legitimizes us, those folks to come on out. Come out in front of the rocks.

NOBLES: The Biden visit strikingly different from Trump's as the Democrat met with Jacob Blake's family. Blake Jr. himself joining the conversation from his hospital room, as well as local activists and community leaders of color. While Trump focused his visit on law enforcement.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Reckless, far left politicians continue to push the destructive message that our nation and our law enforcement are oppressive or racist.

NOBLES: Meanwhile, Trump is threatening leaders of several Democratic cities that he will cut their federal funding if they refuse federal law enforcement assistance, and continue to, "permit anarchy," leading to this angry response from New York's governor.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, (D) NEW YORK: Forget bodyguards, he better have an army because he thinks he's going to walk down the street in New York.

NOBLES: And today Trump is once again casting doubt on mail-in voting, even suggesting his supporters illegally vote twice.

TRUMP: You send them in but you go to vote. And if they haven't counted it, you can vote.

NOBLES: The President encouraging supporters to vote for him both by mail and in person to make sure their vote is counted. Despite the fact that there is plenty of evidence voting by mail is reliable.

In a series of tweets this morning, the President telling supporters to take special precautions if they choose to vote by mail, even suggesting to go to their polling place to "see whether or not your mail-in vote has been tabulated." (on camera): Six hundred thousand people could vote by absentee in the state.

TRUMP: I don't like that.

NOBLES (on camera): Are you confident in that system?

TRUMP: Well, they'll go out and they'll vote and they're going to have to go and check their vote by going to the poll and voting that way because if it tabulates, then they won't be able to do that.

NOBLES (voice-over): Now, the North Carolina board of elections, warning voters that attempting to vote twice is a felony, and "strongly discourages people from showing up at the polls on Election Day to check whether their absentee ballot was counted."

JOSH STEIN, (D) NORTH CAROLINA ATTORNEY GENERAL: When you mail in your absentee ballot, you can track it online and it will show on the website that your ballot has been received. There is zero reason to go vote in person once you've mailed in your ballot.

NOBLES: Still the Trump administration standing by their warnings.

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: He's trying to make the point that the ability to monitor this system is not good. And if it was so good, if you tried to vote a second time you would be caught if you voted in person.

NOBLES: While at the same time claiming

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President does not condone unlawful voting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And that is CNN's Ryan Nobles reporting there. Let's get more on all of this with two of the Blake family attorneys, B'Ivory LaMarr and Patrick Salvi Jr. They were both at the meeting between Joe Biden and the Blake family.

Gentlemen, thanks very much for joining us.

B'Ivory, let me start with you, Jacob Blake actually join this meeting with the Biden's over the phone from his hospital bed. We heard those details from Joe Biden and Ben Crump. Crump says Jacob Blake shared about the pain he's enduring right now and the vice president commiserated. Those are the words from Ben Crump. What more can you share about this conversation?

B'IVORY LAMARR, BLAKE FAMILY ATTORNEY: You know, I will say that the conversation with Jacob and the Vice President Joe Biden, it was very, very touching. Just to hear Jacob narrate, you know, some of the issues and challenges that he's had after enduring his very tragic situation. It was very disheartening just to kind of understand.

But what we see was, you know, Vice President Biden show a great degree of empathy. And that also shares stories and challenges of medical challenges that he's personally had. And I thought that was -- I thought that helped ease the burden a little bit to some degree for Jacob. I felt that he was encouraged.

I thought it was also encouraging just to be in that room just to kind of hear that. So I felt like it was just a really good show of character. And I think it's something that we all can grow from and in unity, and I thought that that was very telling of Vice President Biden.

ACOSTA: And B'Ivory, is it an encouraging sign that Jacob Blake felt well enough to have this conversation? What is this conversation say about how his condition is right now?

LAMARR: You know, I think Jacob is still in a great degree pain. He did describe that. He, you know, like, as I mentioned, he talked about a lot of challenges that he was still having on a day to day basis.

[17:10:00]

But I think that one of the things that Jacob talked about was his children. And I thought that was very telling. He talked about the strength that he has will hopefully be imputed into his children to kind of go through this ordeal that he has.

So I felt like Jacob is still, you know, still tough. He's just a very, very strong person. And I think is encouraging personally, for me, just being in a room. It put me at a place of just looking at life and just looking at how precious it is, and how we take things for granted.

One of the things that Jacob said was, God would not put anything on him that he couldn't handle. So I thought that they just goes to show the tremendous strength that Jacob has as an individual, as a person.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. That's a hopeful sign.

And Patrick, what did the Blake family want Joe Biden to hear? What was the main message from the family?

PATRICK SALVI JR., BLAKE FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, there were a number of things that we discussed as a group. And a couple of things that I think are particularly relevant under the circumstances of what happened in this case include a much stronger effort in training in an application that police work to deescalate situations.

What we've learned from witnesses and what we see in the video as it unfolds is that these officers went straight to violence, beating him up, and then ultimately shooting him. So, de-escalation being a major theme.

And then among others, the use of body cams. One can only imagine that if body cameras were implemented on a more widespread basis, that there would be greater accountability, that when police associations as in this case have tried to claim certain facts, the body cams would tell us the truth and give us transparency. And when an officer is wearing a body cam, that officer knows that and that officer knows that whatever he or she says is going to be recorded. And so they have to conduct themselves appropriately.

So those were two important things, among others that are particularly relevant to what happen here.

ACOSTA: And how did Biden respond to all of this? Did he sound like he was going to get on the case, Patrick?

SALVI: Absolutely. I think what we heard from Vice President Biden is that he is very supportive of measures that allow police to better do their job, and that will help improve the relationship between police and the African American community.

The sense that we got and then I believe the family got is that this is about moving forward and using this moment to improve and to improve those relations so that we can all feel safer in our communities.

ACOSTA: And B'Ivory, I want to watch -- I want you to watch what the Attorney General William Barr told Wolf Blitzer last night about systemic racism and then get your reaction after that. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARR: No, I don't think there are two justice systems. Let's -- you know, I think the narrative that there's that the police are on some, you know, epidemic of shooting unarmed black men is simply a false narrative.

I think there are some situations where statistics which suggests that they are treated differently, but I don't think that that's necessarily racism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: B'Ivory, what's your response to that?

LAMARR: You know, I find those comments particularly disturbing. I think that evidence has borne out that it's clearly a systemic racism in our country, and that racism exists.

You know, this is a situation that's been going on ongoing for years. The country is not in up war because of a rare or random circumstance. This is a continued pattering that we're seeing across this country. And I think that that's very evident.

I think that black and brown people disproportionately are murdered for misdemeanors. And it's always a justification. There's always -- it can't just be all will. Even if Jacob did obstruct, you know, that's a misdemeanor in the state of Wisconsin. You don't get shot seven times in the back for that type of circumstance.

And I think it has been echoed across this country that Caucasians, Americans would not have went through the same circumstance that Jacob did. So I think it's clear of that.

You know people are not protesting across the country up of something that is just unusual. This is becoming too common. So I think that Attorney General Barr's statements are very disturbing. And I think that type of rhetoric is divisive. And I think at a time where we really need to be united.

ACOSTA: All right, B'Ivory LaMarr, Patrick Salvi Jr., we're glad to hear that Jacob Blake was well enough to join those conversation and thanks for joining us this evening. We appreciate it.

And there was more breaking news ahead, a new CDC forecast just out projecting as many as 211,000 coronavirus deaths in the U.S. by late September. That's later on this month.

[17:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: We're following breaking news in the presidential race, Joe Biden spoke by phone with Jacob Blake and met with members of his family in person during this afternoon's visit to Kenosha, Wisconsin. That's a stark contrast President Trump's law-and-order themed Kenosha visit earlier this week.

Let's discuss it with CNN Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger, along with CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Charles Ramsey.

Gloria, let me start with you first. You just heard what Jacob Blake's attorney told me, both of the attorneys told me about this meeting between the Biden's and Jacob Blake and his family. You spoke to Joe Biden about his role as a consoler for your documentary with -- on Joe Biden. What did you make of these contrasting visits between Donald Trump and Joe Biden this week?

[17:20:08]

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it tells you an awful lot about both man. I mean, Donald Trump, went to Kenosha, walked through the burn streets, met with police, didn't speak with the family, the family did not want to speak with him, I gather. Joe Biden went to Kenosha met with community leaders for 90 minutes or so and met with the lawyers, the family and then Jacob Blake over the phone.

And there's a part of Joe Biden and I think it comes from his own experience with personal tragedy. And he said to me his own experience with stuttering, which he says has made him more empathetic human being.

And so while it might be very difficult for a lot of people, from any walk of life, much less a presidential candidate to have that I have a conversation with somebody obviously in pain from his hotel room, Joe Biden, it comes very easily. He's almost a pastor in many ways.

And I think this is -- these are conversations that he just doesn't shy away from.

ACOSTA: And Charles, you're a longtime law enforcement professional. As you know, President Trump visited and pledged funding for the city's police there in Kenosha to help rebuild damaged businesses and so on, but he did not meet with Jacob Blake's family.

The President's visit was not really geared towards dealing with the African American community, the community that's been supporting Jacob Blake and his family. How important is it for communities like the one we're seeing in Kenosha right now to feel that officials like the president are listening to their concerns.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think it's very important, especially when you have something like a controversial shooting or incident take place that someone like the President of the United States who's going to visit would take time to meet with everyone involved. I mean, the whole point is to try to draw people together.

Is that a good guys bad guys type of thing. So, you know, meeting with the police, but the police only can send one kind of message. If you meet with everyone it certainly can send another.

I think that, you know, right now, what we need is for everyone to unite. That has nothing to do with whether or not the shooting was justified, not justified criminal, not criminal. I mean, the state attorney general will make that determination during the course of the investigation.

Right now is the time for healing. And Joe Biden, I thought showed a great deal of empathy for the family. He not only met with the family, but he met with the community as well and answered questions. And I think now is the time, and that's very important.

ACOSTA: And Gloria, just to shift gears a little bit, President Trump and the White House are trying to explain away his comments from yesterday encouraging people to vote twice. To test that the voting system is working to catch fraud. Of course, you can't vote twice, that's illegal.

Now, he says you should vote by mail as early as possible, then go to your polling place to make sure it was actually counted. Does any of this make any sense?

BORGER: It doesn't, I think what's going on here really is kind of just stirring the pot. Finding yet another way to say the election is going to be rigged. And in terms of telling people, you know, you can vote twice and cast a provisional ballot and then go check it out.

You know, you have state attorneys general saying, no, no, no, no, no, we don't allow that. That's not even legal in some of our states. And please don't do that. You can go online, you can check to see whether your ballot has been registered. You don't need to vote twice.

But in terms of the grand scheme of things, when you're trying in advance to say an election is rigged, and you're trying to say don't trust the results. This is just part of the same game plan.

ACOSTA: And Chief Ramsey, yes or no, voting twice is against the law, just from a law enforcement --

RAMSEY: Well, it is against the law. I mean, I'm from Chicago, so you need to know that up front. But it's obviously against the law.

And we've all voted we've been in in polling places. There's no way to person at the polling place can check to see whether or not you mailed in a ballot at the same time.

So, you know, you're going to vote and guess what, you're going to wind up with a felony charge. And it also gives excuse for those who want to find one, that there's fraud in the elections because now you can show that some people voted twice, and so forth.

I mean, this is something I hope people are listening. Do not do it. Do one or the other. Do not do both.

ACOSTA: Don't vote twice.

RAMSEY: Even in Chicago. Even in Chicago.

ACOSTA: Even in Chicago, all right. Very good. All right. Gloria and Charles, thank you very much.

Breaking News, coming up next with the coronavirus pandemic, the CDC just raised its forecast predicting more than 200,000 deaths in the U.S., get this, by the end of this month.

[17:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Following breaking news from the CDC just out with a disturbing new coronavirus forecast projecting as many as 211,000 deaths in the U.S. by September 26. CNN's Alexandra Field is working that story for us.

[17:30:00]

Alexandra, that would be another 25,000 American lives lost of the pandemic in just the next three weeks, just stunning.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just about three weeks away from that and incredibly grim forecast, that as public health officials are trying to tamp down expectations that we could see vaccine any earlier than the end of the year. At the same time, we've got the makers of those possible vaccines also weighing in saying that political pressure is irrelevant to the approval process when it comes to vaccines and that the most important thing at this point is public confidence in any possible vaccine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): It would be unlikely but not impossible to have a coronavirus vaccine as soon as the end of next month according to Dr. Anthony Fauci. Still, he insists science will lead any vaccine approval process.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The FDA has been very explicit that they are going to make a decision based on the data as it comes in. The vaccine would not be approved for the American public unless it was indeed both safe and effective. And I keep emphasizing both safe and effective.

FIELD (voice-over): Those assurances come after the CDC sent out guidance for how states should prepare to distribute millions of doses of a potential vaccine by late October, that's just before the election. The timeline fueling concerns for some that politics could influence the process. It's faster than public health officials have previously estimated.

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH: You won't know if the vaccine works until lots of people have been out there in the community to see whether it protected them against disease. So most of us are guessing the real answers to this will come along perhaps in December. But if everything went extremely well, and if you had a vaccine that was extremely effective, we might find out earlier and we'd want to be prepared for that.

FIELD (voice-over): For two weeks, the U.S. has been averaging some 40,000 new cases a day. On each of the last two days, more than 1,000 deaths.

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D), NEW JERSEY: Let's be clear where we are. The virus is not done with us yet, not by a longshot.

FIELD (voice-over): In the Northeast where states had made significant and sustained progress against the virus, a number of states are now seeing increases in COVID-19 cases. There's a new crop of hotspots in Midwest. Missouri is now in the so called red zone according to the White House Task Force, which is recommending the state shut down its borders and mandate masks to stop the spread. The same recommendations were made for Iowa, which has the second highest rate of COVID cases in the nation.

Three weeks after a massive motorcycle rally, South Dakota has the country's highest case rate.

FAUCI: We're seeing now in certain states, particularly states, for example, like Montana, the Dakotas, Michigan, Minnesota, that there is an uptick in test positivity, particularly among young people 19 to 25. That's predictive, Jim, that if there is and if they don't do the kinds of things we're talking about, we're going to see a surge.

FIELD (voice-over): And there are even more concerns about another surge with the holiday weekend coming up. The nation saw big spikes after both Memorial Day and the Fourth of July.

DWAYNE "THE ROCK" JOHNSON, ACTOR: Were all tested positive for COVID- 19. FIELD (voice-over): Celebrity Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson urging caution after he, his wife and two children caught the virus after spending time with friends.

JOHNSON: If you guys are having family and friends over to your house, you know them, you trust them, they've been quarantined, and just like you guys, you still never know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: You never know. So Fauci is urging extreme vigilance this holiday weekend saying the nation needs a running start when it comes to battling the virus this fall with the added challenges of the flu season just around the corner and a time of year when people start to spend more time indoors. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. CNN's Alexandra Field, thanks so much for that.

Let's get more on this with CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, this new CDC ensemble forecast projects the death toll could be between 200,000 and 211,000 by September 26. At the start of the pandemic, it was shocking to wrap our heads around the idea of this many deaths. I remember being at the White House when they were talking about 100,000 to 200,000 deaths and it looks like we're going to shoot right past that. Let's watch what the President said back in April about his anticipation back then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've lost a lot of people. But if you look at what original projections were 2.2 million, we're probably heading to 60,000, 70,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And the death toll is going to be more than double than that prediction, Sanjay. What do you think is going to happen this fall, this winter? It's going to go way beyond this estimate that we're seeing tonight.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, sadly. You know, I worry about that, Jim. I mean, we see this sort of roller coaster ride as Alexander was just talking about in certain parts of the country. They go up, they come back down, other parts of the country go up. But when you look at these models and you really start to piece them together, Jim, you're starting to see these two plateaus form.

[17:35:04]

About roughly around 40,000 people becoming infected every day, and roughly, you know, about 1,000 people dying every day. If you do the math on the projections you just showed, that's about 1,000 people dying every day, you know, for the rest of this month. And that -- they just sort of, when they model this, they say even if it changes in terms of where in the country, you're seeing these outbreaks, overall as a country, that's what we're likely to see. So, that's not a good plateau, Jim, at all. That's not nearly low enough.

ACOSTA: And we did get good news on the vaccine front though today, Sanjay. Pfizer says it should know by the end of October if its vaccine candidate works. Dr. Fauci still says it's unlikely we'll have a vaccine ready to go by then. Does it potentially confuse people to have the CDC preparing states to roll out a vaccine before Election Day?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it's an interesting thing. We've been reporting on this for so long, Jim. So talking to so many different people within the manufacturing world of vaccines within the federal government, I think the idea of preparing for the distribution and manufacturing, even in earnest ahead of time makes sense. And some of these vaccines, they require really specific kind of storage. So you want to make sure you're prepared to do that.

I think what is interesting, Jim, is that these trials, in order to really know if they work, you're giving half the people a vaccine, half the people a placebo, and you're sort of counting on the people in the placebo group having enough infection to show that they're getting infected, and the vaccinated group is not. But if people are in a trial like this and they're, you know, not going out of there, they're wearing masks, they're trying to be good, because these are the kind of people who volunteer for a trial, you may not have enough infection in the placebo group to definitively say anything.

I know that's sounds a little backwards, but in some ways, you're counting on the placebo group having a higher rate of infection, which we'll see if that happens. If they don't, you're just not going to be able to tell from the data, whether this vaccine is actually effective or not.

ACOSTA: And we absolutely must know the answer to that. All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much for that.

Coming up, more breaking news, Rochester, New York Police officers involved in the death of a black man who died after a bag was placed over his head. They've just been suspended. We'll have more on that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:41:51]

ACOSTA: Sweden's response to the coronavirus pandemic as seen by some as a cautionary tale, while others see it as a success story. The country bet big on limited restrictions and so called herd immunity. CNN's Max Foster has more from Stockholm.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This ICU unit in central Stockholm lies virtually empty with just one coronavirus patient receiving care. This was the scene in April at the height of the Swedish pandemic, with a unit inundated. Outside, bars, shops and schools remained open throughout. No lockdown. But people were given official guidance on how to sanitize and when to socially distance, and they largely abided by those rules.

Masks were never mandated here. With a senior government source telling CNN that they're regarded here as largely superficial. After an initial surge in the death rate, well above the Scandinavian average, Sweden now has one of the lowest death rates in Europe.

(on-camera): Most of the casualties were elderly, nine out of 10 were over 70 years old, and 45 percent of all deaths were in care homes. That's raised the question about the rest of society, the younger, the healthier, did they develop some sort of resistance to the virus as they interacted?

PROF. HANS-GUSTAF LJUNGGREN, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS MEDICINE, KAROLINSKA INSTITUTE: It's possible that we are -- we have been building up some immunity that contributes to the present state.

FOSTER (voice-over): But when people in Stockholm were tested for immunity, only 7 percent had enough antibodies to fight the disease. But they weren't tested for T-cells, which also provide resistance.

LJUNGGREN: So that means that immunity in Sweden and immunity globally is probably larger than we have previously appreciate. At least that is our current thought.

FOSTER (voice-over): And that's the narrative that some American conservatives are grasping onto. Why bother with lockdowns and masks when you can allow people to go about their normal lives, catch the virus and build immunity whilst only shielding the elderly and vulnerable. The Swedish government urges caution pointing to how their safety guidelines were followed by most Swedes. But also a universal health care and welfare system that provides a safety net for anyone falling ill or out of work.

Ms. Lena Hallengren oversaw the government response from the beginning as health minister.

LENA HALLENGREN, SWEDISH MINISTER FOR HEALTH: We didn't have a full or a forced lockdown, but we have many changes, large number of changes in the Swedish society. I mean, during the spring, we had distance studies for -- online studies for all upper secondary for the universities and the adult schools. We also had, I think, 30 percent, 40 percent people working from home. We have lots of people staying home on sick leave, because they have the slightest symptoms.

You could go out the streets in the capital, you didn't meet almost anyone. We have lots of businesses with a very difficult situation because they didn't have any guests or customers. So lots of things were changed. They didn't have any cultural events, the sports events. Things were changed but not in a forced way. I think that was the difference.

[17:45:04]

FOSTER (voice-over): The Swedish economy shrank by 8 percent in the second quarter of 2020. The largest fall since records began. But what of the bigger price, for many elderly who died, some argue was sacrificed in the early days of the pandemic.

HALLENGREN: If you get the virus into those eldercare homes, many of the persons living there are having very severe symptoms and they also die. So that's why we have this by law that people are forbidden to visit the eldercare homes, but that was not successful in all the way but we also learned a lot of that.

FOSTER (voice-over): All care home workers have since been retrained in hygiene protocols. The government here says it's too early to know what they did right, what they did wrong or whether herd immunity to coronavirus is even a thing. In the meantime, they're preparing for a possible second wave this fall. It wouldn't be the first country to see a surge in the virus after apparently stamping it out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: It really is striking though, Jim, if you look at the numbers to see how they've come down the death rate and the virus rate in this country. Many people actually, when you talk to them on the streets, point to the fact that social distancing is always built into the culture. It's not a very touchy-feely nation. But the big test will be this fall if there is that second wave. And if the death rate doesn't increase massively here, it will be an even more interesting case.

ACOSTA: And you'll have to check back in and see how they're doing there. CNN's Max Foster, thank you so much for that. We appreciate it.

Breaking news next, police officers involved in the death of a black man who died after a bag was placed over his head have just been suspended in Rochester, New York. That has been a very controversial story up there and we'll be getting a live update on that coming up next.

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[17:51:54]

ACOSTA: Mayor of Rochester, New York just announced she's suspending the police officers involved in the death of a black man who died after a bag was placed over his head. Newly released police video of the March incident shows the officers covering the man's head with what's called a spit sock and holding them on the ground before he stopped breathing.

Let's get the latest from CNN's Polo Sandoval. Polo, tell us what you know.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I just had an opportunity to speak to the family of 41-year-old Daniel Prude and tell me that this is the kind of action or at least this is the response that they were calling for that they at least, at least it's a start here now that the mayor here in Rochester announcing the suspension of the seven officers as multiple investigations are ongoing. Not only the New York State Attorney General looking into the actions of the police officers back on March 23rd, but also an internal investigation here at the city level as well. And just to summarize what went down on that cold day in March, Jim, Mr. Prude, according to several witnesses, and in the video you can clearly see him encountered by police after his family was concerned about him. Apparently, he was having a bit of a mental episode, appeared disoriented, was naked on the street when he was approached by police officers. At first, he seems to comply with the officers commands, gets on the ground, he's handcuffed, but then it becomes -- he becomes, according -- when you see in the video, he's necessarily cooperative here and that's when they use that facial covering, fearing that they would potentially be spit on by Mr. Prude.

And it was a short time later, he was rushed to the hospital where he would remain until he was pronounced dead about a week later. Now authorities here, a short while ago, including the mayor, announcing that they are now taking the step to suspend these officers while they continue to look into that -- the actual incident. I want to hear directly from the mayor as an actual timeline because according to the mayor, she did not actually find out about the officers questionable actions until about a month ago even though the incident happened in March.

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MAYOR LOVELY WARREN (D), ROCHESTER, NEW YORK: And no time did I ever know the extent or that there was a -- any hands on incidents with these officers until August 4. When I watched that video, I was enraged. I wanted to come forward that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: We should mention that the autopsy results at the time ruled as a homicide saying it concluded that Mr. Prude died of asphyxia in a setting of physical restraint in the same report that was we should mention actually shared with CNN by the family. Also cited excited delirium and possible intoxication of a drug as well. So that's certainly going to be part of this investigation here.

We should also mention, the local police union did say that the video is raising some concerns but at the same time, they're also still trying to gather as much information as they can. But, certainly, that growing call for justice that we heard in other parts of the country, Rochester now just the latest U.S. city to add its voice to that chorus of growing calls for justice, Jim.

ACOSTA: A disturbing incident and much more to uncover it sounds like. CNN's Polo Sandoval, thank you very much for that breaking news report.

[17:55:03]

And more breaking news up ahead. Joe Biden speaks by phone with Jacob Blake. The Democratic presidential nominee and family attorneys are revealing new details of that call.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ACOSTA: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Jim Acosta in "The Situation Room" and we're following breaking news. Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden spoke by phone this afternoon with Jacob Blake during a meeting with Blake's family in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Biden also held a community meeting today where he slammed President Trump's handling of racial injustice and accused him of legitimising.