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Trump Takes Photo-Op Joyride While Battling COVID-19; Trump Back At Walter Reed After Photo-op Visit To Supporters Outside; Biden Tests Negative For Coronavirus; New York City Mayor Proposes Closing All Non-Essential Businesses And Schools In Nine Neighborhoods Amid Case Spike. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired October 04, 2020 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: CNN's breaking news coverage in a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" right now. Have a great night.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

Now we begin tonight with a truly stunning day in the presidency of Donald Trump. But one that leaves us with very serious questions about his health and how seriously he's taking this virus.

This was about an hour ago. Look at this just outside the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. This is the president of the United States waving to supporters from inside an SUV. A photo-op that seemed unlikely based on what we had learned earlier in the day from the president's own doctor.

The assessment of the president's physician, Dr. Sean Conley, was upbeat but what he told us was rather ominous and it led our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta to say the president may be sicker than his doctors are letting on. While the president's doctor suggested he could be discharge from the hospital as soon as tomorrow, they also revealed he's taking a new drug, a steroid, one that is recommended by the World Health Organization only for people suffering from the most severe cases of COVID.

That's in addition to two other drugs he's taking, a monoclonal antibody cocktail approved only for compassionate use and Remdesivir which is only for patients with severe COVID who require supplemental oxygen.

And all this comes as cases of the virus are surging once again here in the United States. President Trump's infection was one of 54,506 cases recorded on Friday by the Johns Hopkins University. That's the highest single-day number of cases we've seen here in the United States since August 14th. That's nearly two months ago. Not a good sign. And as the American public is receiving this mixed messaging from

President Trump's doctors and the White House, the president himself tweeted this video message from the hospital saying he has learned a lot about COVID.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been a very interesting journey. I learned a lot about COVID. I learned it by really going to school. This is the real school. This isn't the let's- read-the-book school. And I get it. And I understand it. And it's a very interesting thing. I'm going to be letting you know about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. CNN's Kaitlan Collins is joining us from the White House right now.

Kaitlan, so what's the latest? Your reaction to first of all the video that the president posted on Twitter, what it might say about his mindset.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it shows that he's obviously frustrated with the coverage of his hospitalization. So he's trying to make a public appearance. We had been hearing that the president was trying in some way to appear publicly. That's why they took a video yesterday, another video today and then he made that drive.

But, Wolf, in that video that he released about 20 seconds before he left the hospital, before we actually saw him in the car, the president says he's learned a lot about coronavirus now that we' are several months into this pandemic and of course it has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. He now says he has learned about the coronavirus after contracting it himself.

But, Wolf, then just moments later, he got into a sealed car with two Secret Service agents who were wearing protective gear just to ride with the president knowing that he is coronavirus positive and potentially putting them at risk. So it is raising questions about why the president felt the need to take this drive and whether the strategy here behind it of the president trying to show his supporters that he is able to do something like get into a car and take a drive at this time is worth putting two people who were there to protect him at risk in the car with him by riding in such close quarters knowing that he's positive.

He's wearing a cloth mask but they appear to be wearing these medical- grade masks. And if you look closely, you can see that the agents have on face shields and they're also wearing gowns over their clothes as well. So it really gives you a level of indication of what they thought about getting into that car with the president. So it's raising questions about why he felt the need to make this appearance and who, if anyone, told him it was a good idea, including his own physicians that are currently taking care of him.

BLITZER: It clearly was not a good idea. Potentially very, very dangerous idea in fact.

Kaitlan, stand by. I'm going to get back to you shortly. I want to have more now on that presidential photo-op that we just saw today. The unannounced, very unexpected quick trip around the hospital on the main street there outside of the Walter Reed hospital. As you see, the president waving to some of his supporters on the sidewalks there.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is outside the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.

Jeremy, you were there when the presidential motorcade appeared. A few cars. People clearly were caught off guard.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, it was a surreal scene and it happened on the street right behind me here.

[19:05:01]

This is where the president's motorcade drove by. There was no warning, there was no notice from the White House that the president was about to do this. The street was blocked off and then moments later we saw the presidential motorcade come down this street here which is right in front of the entrance to the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center and it's where we've seen throughout the day and over the last several days several dozen of the president's own supporters out here cheering him on, cheering on his recovery.

And so the president we saw earlier in the day, he tweeted out a thank you to those supporters. And then perhaps the president sensed an opportunity as well, which was an opportunity not just to thank those supporters from coming out and showing their support but also an opportunity at a moment of weakness here, Wolf, for the president where he is in frail health, he has been dealing with some severe symptoms of the coronavirus according to his own doctors.

He is now on three different types of drugs to try and remedy that, and the president perhaps here sensing an opportunity to project strength at that moment of weakness, to send a message to the entire world, but perhaps more specifically, Wolf, to the voting public in the United States 30 days out from an election to send a message that he is doing all right, that he is able to get out of the hospital and show his face for the first time in public, Wolf, since the president boarded that helicopter to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center on Friday.

BLITZER: And we did hear earlier, Jeremy, from the president's doctor. Tell us about that.

DIAMOND: Yes, Wolf, look, we are at a point where the president of the United States, he is in the hospital, he is dealing with this infectious disease that has killed more than 209,000 people in the United States. And the president's doctor is facing a credibility crisis and there is simply no other way to put it. Yesterday, we heard Dr. Sean Conley evade questions, he danced around this issue specifically about whether or not the president had received any supplemental oxygen. Today, Wolf, after numerous press reports confirming that the

president had indeed received that supplemental oxygen, we heard Dr. Conley conceding that the president had in fact received supplemental oxygen and in fact that his oxygen saturation levels dropped to a worrying levels below 94 percent both on Friday as well as on Saturday, and suggested that the president may have also needed supplemental oxygen yesterday.

Now while Dr. Conley provided more information today, he also addressed this question of why he provided such a rosy and upbeat assessment of the president's health yesterday. I want you to listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SEAN CONLEY, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S MEDICAL TEAM: I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude that the team, the president, his course of illness has had. Didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction. And in doing so, you know, it came off that we were trying to hide something which wasn't necessarily true and so here -- he is -- the fact of the matter is, is that he's doing really well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And, Wolf, there is no reason to believe that sharing truthful information with the public about the president's health would affect the president's prognosis in any way. But what it does do, Wolf, is it shakes the public's confidence in this doctor and it makes it that much harder to believe him when he says, as he just said in that video there, that the president is now doing really well -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Do we know, Jeremy, if Dr. Conley, the president's physician at the White House, has a lot of experience in dealing with COVID patients?

DIAMOND: You know, Wolf, he's been the president's physician for, I believe, about two years now since Dr. Ronny Jackson left that position. So that is where he has been. He has been at the White House. We don't know that he has been dealing with any other COVID patients before. I believe his background is in emergency medicine.

So there is certainly that perspective there. But, obviously, there is a whole team of doctors who are working to help the president get better and that includes experts as well from Johns Hopkins University which we know has been really at the forefront of a lot of the research and expertise as it relates to this coronavirus.

BLITZER: Yes, it has. All right, Jeremy, stand by. We're going to get back to you. I want to get some medical perspective right now.

CNN medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner is with us. He knows what it's like to treat a prominent public figure. He was then Vice President Dick Cheney's cardiologist. Also joining us is Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, she's the chief clinical officer at Providence Health System.

Dr. Reiner, is this the kind of patient who should be out driving around the Walter Reed Hospital the way he did with two Secret Service agents in the front seats?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Amazingly irresponsible, Wolf. His physician should have said no. And his attending physician should have said, no, sir, you can't do that. We will not permit it.

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As my colleague Dr. James Phillips (INAUDIBLE), said earlier today, that car is not just bulletproof, that car has been sealed against chemical attack. So the air in that car has been circulating. So what the president did by insisting on that joyride was expose the Secret Service agents sitting just literally inches away from him to recirculated air and they have to hope that those masks they're wearing are effective.

I have no idea whether the Secret Service are fit tested for those masks. In the hospital before the pandemic really took off, every staff member in the hospital was fit tested for an N-95 mask which means wearing a hood and they basically spray nauseous fumes into the hood and a well-fitting N-95 mask, you don't taste it. So I have no idea whether these are real well-fitted masks for the Secret Service agents, but their lives depend on that. This was completely unnecessary. His physician should have said no.

BLITZER: Well, Dr. Compton-Phillips, what do you think?

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CHIEF CLINICAL OFFICER, PROVIDENCE HEALTH SYSTEM: I totally agree. I think you're absolutely right. You know, those N-95 masks we use them medically and they have to -- you have to actually breathe through the filter material. And the reason why the fit testing you just heard about is so important is if they don't fit, if you have gaps, air can leak in from the sides.

And so rather than going through the filter, you actually inhale the virus, and that's the risk. And so, you know, for a president that says blue lives matter, here he has his own protective detail and he's putting them at risk so that he can go out and wave. Really concerning.

BLITZER: It's very concerning indeed. Dr. Reiner, earlier on CNN you pointed out that the president right now is the only human on the planet to have received this combination of drugs. He's now getting the experimental antibody cocktail treatment Remdesivir and now doctors have added the steroid dexamethasone to his treatment plan.

How worried should we be that the doctors feel all of this is necessary? Because clearly they wouldn't be doing it if he didn't have some serious problems and potential complications.

REINER: Yes, in medicine, you don't throw the kitchen sink at a patient with an abundance of caution. You sometimes throw it with an abundance of panic, sometimes when there's nothing else to lose. So yes, I think the president might be the only patient on the planet ever to receive this particular combination of medicines. So what we learned today is that he was -- begun on dexamethasone steroid on Friday.

That was omitted -- shamelessly omitted from the briefing yesterday by Dr. Conley. We know that dexamethasone does reduce the risk of mortality. That comes from data from a trial called the Recovery Trial. But to show you what the stakes are, the patients in that trial who received dexamethasone and derived a benefit still had a 23 percent 28-day mortality rate. So almost a quarter of the patients treated with dexamethasone were dead by a month out.

So the only conclusion one can make from this triple therapy is that the president's physicians feel that he's in grave danger.

BLITZER: Dr. Compton-Phillips, I want you to listen to a couple of the comments from earlier in the day. This is Dr. Sean Conley, the president's personal physician at the White House. Also the communications director. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONLEY: I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude that the team, the president, his course of illness has had. I didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction. And in doing so, you know, it came off that we're trying to hide something which wasn't necessarily true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And now listen to something the White House communications director, Alyssa Farah, later said on FOX News. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALYSSA FARAH, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It's a common medical practice that you want to convey confidence and you want to raise the spirits of the person you're treating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

FARAH: I know this president. I don't know that he needs his spirits raised. But I think it's actually a very common medical practice to do that. So if anything, the doctor was giving a really strong and confident viewpoint --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Well, what's your reaction, Dr. Compton-Phillips, to that explanation for misleading the American public?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Yes. That is not an explanation that is common medical practice at all from any valid clinician that I know. Doctors are taught -- you know, first of all, we work for our patients. Right? And so if a patient says I don't want you to say this, you can't say it. But you should say, rather than skirting around it or obfuscating, you know, making things up, you just say, I can't answer that question based on what my patient wants me to say.

And the president certainly deserves his patient privacy just like everybody does. That said, we need to be honest, we need to be up front, and you always want to be hopeful where there's hope. But you don't mislead by painting an overly rosy picture. So not common practice.

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BLITZER: And he's not just any patient. He's the president of the United States with enormous responsibilities as we all know.

Dr. Reiner, in the absence of a complete medical picture presented, you've said the president likely -- and we hope he doesn't, but likely has pneumonia. What gives you that suspicion?

REINER: Yes, today at the briefing when asked what the CT showed, the -- Dr. Conley said the CT showed findings -- expected findings. Well, if the answer is not the CT was normal, the expected findings in a patient who has just received triple therapy -- triple experimental therapy for COVID-19 is pneumonia. This is a respiratory pathogen. So by saying the CT showed expected findings in a patient who, again, the physician said had had two drops in his pulse oxygenation. So he's saying that the president had pneumonia.

There's an important point to be made here, which is we actually don't know when the president contracted this virus. We only know when he tested positive. It's incredibly important for the White House to tell us when his last negative test was. They've said all along throughout this year that the president is tested daily. I doubt that. So now we need to know when the president tested negative.

He is presenting like somebody a week into their course. A week into the course is when people tend to get sick and need to be hospitalized, not a day after turning positive. Particularly if he was tested negative on Wednesday. So we need to know when he tested positive. My suspicion is that he's been positive for several days which would mean he hasn't been tested for several days.

BLITZER: And that's very worrisome. And I don't know why the White House or the physicians simply can't tell us when the last test he took that showed he was negative.

Dr. Reiner, thank you so much as usual. Don't go too far away. We're going to come back to you.

Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, thanks to you as well.

Sources meanwhile are telling CNN that President Trump is furious with the White House chief of staff Mark Meadows after he contradicted the rather rosy picture painted by the president's doctors. So what does that tell us about the White House handling of this crisis?

The former Defense secretary, the former White House chief of staff, Leon Panetta, he's standing by live. We will discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BLITZER: As the president of the United States battles coronavirus at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, the White House has failed to provide a clear picture of the president's condition. As I mentioned this evening, the president briefly left Walter Reed in a small motorcade to drive by his supporters, to wave to them, outside the hospital and then to drive right back towards the hospital. He's back at Walter Reed right now.

I'm joined by the former White House chief of staff to President Clinton, the former Defense secretary under President Obama, Leon Panetta.

Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us. What do you make of the president's surprise photo-op, this little drive that he -- he didn't alert the White House travel pool to that? They just went on a little drive around the block to wave to his supporters.

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER OBAMA: Well, it raises a lot of concerns because this is the president of the United States who has got a very serious illness, COVID-19. He obviously has some serious symptoms as a result of that. I can't understand why he isn't in the hospital, kept there, in order to be cared for, and that somebody allowed him to get into a car and started driving around.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense. Somebody has got to take charge of that situation in order to make sure that the president's health care comes first.

BLITZER: Well, it's a military hospital. He's the commander-in-chief. If he says I'm going for a little ride, do they have any choice?

PANETTA: Well, you know, I think this is a situation where frankly the chief of staff and others have to be there to try to say to the president, look, this is not a time for you to be driving around. This is a time for you to get good care so that you can take care of this problem, recover and be able to resume your full duties as president of the United States. Somebody has to tell him that. whether it's a doctor, whether it's a chief of staff.

The problem with this president is nobody is willing to stand up and tell him what needs to be done. And that's a dangerous situation.

BLITZER: Speaking of the White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, as you know, he contradicted what the president's doctors told the public yesterday. Then the White House said he was just being transparent even though his comments were off the record. What does all this tell you in terms of the inner workings of this White House during this enormous crisis that's unfolding?

PANETTA: We've known for a long time that this White House has been chaotic in terms of how they present facts to the American people, how they present the truth and the untruths to the American people. I just think that at this moment where a president of the United States is ill and incapacitated as a result of that illness, that they have to understand that there are national security implications here.

And that it's very important to make sure that the president, yes, carries on the duties of the presidency, but at the same time, presents the truth to the American people about the status of his health. It is incredibly important that they be honest about this situation because with conspiracy theorists, with disinformation, trolls operating these days, we need to know the truth for his sake and for the country's sake.

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BLITZER: Should the White House be briefing the leadership of the House and the Senate about the condition of the president given that, for example, the national security stakes right now?

PANETTA: Absolutely. The leadership of the Congress should be fully briefed as to the president's status. The American people should be fully briefed as to the president's status on a regular basis. What we've had these last few days is the doctors saying one thing, others saying something else. It creates disinformation, it creates a great deal of confusion as to exactly what is the status.

Somebody has got to take control and try to provide regular briefings, not only to the American people, but to others that are involved with regards to our national security issues. This is a critical moment. I don't think we ought to kid around. This is a critical moment for the United States. We're facing a lot of crisis in this country, from the pandemic to a recession, to issues about racial equality, issues about our election.

Leadership was under challenge to begin with. But now to have the president of the United States ill and at Walter Reed, this is a critical moment for the United States. And it ought to be treated as such.

BLITZER: Certainly is, indeed. Leon Panetta, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for all of your service to our country over these many years. We appreciate it very much.

PANETTA: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, after the president's photo-op outside the Walter reed hospital, a former Secret Service agent tells us why it may have been very risky for those two agents inside the vehicle. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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BLITZER: President Trump hospitalized at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center outside Washington, D.C., in Bethesda, Maryland.

Just a short time ago, he surprised people gathered outside the hospital with a very brief, personal appearance, riding by them in an SUV and then waving at them. Of course, the President is being treated at Walter Reed for

coronavirus. He is infected with COVID-19. As you can see in that picture, by the way, the President is not alone in that vehicle. At least two other people are there, both wearing masks and other protective gear.

Let's discuss with Jonathan Wackrow, he is our CNN law enforcement analyst, also a former Secret Service agent. Jonathan is joining us on the phone.

So, these other people in the car, in the SUV, we assume, Jonathan, they are Secret Service agents. Clearly, you will do your duty as an agent, but what do you -- what do these agents think about being asked to participate in what clearly is a political stunt?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via phone): Well, Wolf, thank you for having me on, and first of all, what the agents are thinking right now in the shot we're looking at them driving in the car, is that they're just focused on the mission.

They're focused on getting the President from Point "A" to Point "B" safely. They are putting their safety and security off to the side to ensure that the President and the Office of the Presidency are safe.

But, Wolf, this goes to the point that I've been saying all weekend is that actions have consequences. And when we think about this image of the detail leader and the driver of this vehicle, they have families.

So there is a second and third order of consequence here where these agents are now exposed and their families could be potentially exposed.

So this is greater than just one individual. So this movement, even though it was, you know, relatively short, does directly expose these individuals to this deadly virus and in turn, can potentially expose their families and others.

So again, you know, every action that the President is taking has a consequence. But, you know for the agents themselves, they are mission-driven and they are focused on the duty on hand.

BLITZER: You know, I spent seven years as CNN's White House correspondent and I dealt very closely with the Secret Service details. The agents, they already are asked to take so many risks, Jonathan, as you and I know.

Would you expect in this particular case right now, to see any of them resign over the risks like this to go to a presidential rally, a campaign rally, to deal with coronavirus potentially when you have large crowds, no social distancing and very few folks wearing masks.

WACKROW: Well, Wolf, I don't expect anybody to resign. I mean, I think what it will do is it will further deteriorate the morale of the agency where they feel that their role is potentially marginalized because they have no advocate, they have no one that is looking to protect them. But you know, again, the Secret Service is an institution and the

institution is there to not only protect the President, but it's the Presidency and that's what every agent really seeks to protect is, it is the democracy of the United States. It's our process. It's the political leadership, whether they are Republican or Democrat.

So this is a moment in time, it will pass. But trying to get through this moment is obviously very challenging for the agents that have to endure it.

BLITZER: It certainly is. The "New York Times," Jonathan reported that at least 11 people tested positive in August for COVID-19 at the Secret Service Training Center. This is putting new strains on agents right now. What can you tell us about this?

WACKROW: Well, listen, and what we've seen is, it's been widely reported that through this crisis, dozens of Secret Service agents have been impacted, some have been hospitalized.

This is a ripple effect. It's a ripple effect on the manpower that is available for the Secret Service to execute, not only its protective mission, but also its criminal investigative mission.

[19:35:28]

WACKROW: The agency can be constrained. The more agents and officers that are out sick due to this virus and contracting the virus has a ripple effect. It has a consequence on the way that they can effectively execute their dual mission.

BLITZER: Talk about the SUV, the presidential vehicle. We hear that it is medically sealed against anything that might get inside. But if the President is infected with the coronavirus, how safe is it inside that car for two other individuals even if they are wearing masks and other protective equipment?

WACKROW: Well, listen, it's a confined space, and I just refer back to what we've heard for months from Dr. Sanjay Gupta which is this virus, the rate of exposure is predicated upon time and distance.

The more time that you spend with somebody that is infected with the virus at close distance, it increases your risk of being exposed. Look at these images, they are a feet from each other.

So there is a high probability that these two individuals would be exposed to the virus.

BLITZER: And I wonder if they're going to have to go into quarantine now for 14 days as a result of this close encounter inside that vehicle with the President.

Jonathan Wackrow, thank you so much for joining us. Once again, thanks for all of your service to our country over the years. We appreciate it very much.

WACKROW: Thanks, Wolf. BLITZER: Coming up, the White House insists the President is still in

control, but as we learn more details about the medications he is taking, when should power be transferred to the Vice President, Mike Pence?

The former Vice President Dick Cheney's doctor, he is standing by to weigh in. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:41:14]

BLITZER: There's more breaking news coming into THE SITUATION ROOM. The former Vice President and the Democratic presidential nominee, Joe Biden has tested negative today for the coronavirus. The Biden campaign has said it would be announcing the results of the test every day.

Still to be decided what the Vice President or his running mate, Kamala Harris, for that matter, will be doing about the upcoming debates. Senator Harris is scheduled to debate Vice President Mike Pence this coming Wednesday night. We'll monitor that closely.

Here's an important question right now given the fact the President is in the hospital, when do you need to take power from a president of the United States? It's a very thorny issue that is in the spotlight as the President is hospitalized with COVID-19.

The 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution allows for it and it has been used in recent history, twice under President George W. Bush, power was transferred to Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Bush went under anesthesia.

I'm joined by CNN's chief political correspondent, Dana Bash and CNN medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner is back with us. Again by the way, he was Vice President Cheney's physician. Dana, does today's publicity stunt driving around the premises of the Walter Reed Hospital bring up questions about the President's judgment -- judgment right now?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I am trying to figure out how to answer that question. Yes. But I'm not so sure that there is much of a difference on the judgment question between what we saw now and what we would have seen if he did not have coronavirus.

So the whole question of whether or not he can serve is a very legitimate one if he really is incapacitated from this virus or anything else. But what we saw here is vintage Donald Trump. This is the kind of thing that people knew that he liked to do when he was elected President of the United States. That's him.

BLITZER: Dr. Reiner, let's talk about this potential transfer of power, how it might play out?

And you were there, you watched how it played out in the Bush White House. Based on what we've seen and what we've been told about the President's condition right now, seeing him today, for that matter, do you think power should have been transferred, obviously temporarily to, the Vice President? Do you think it should have been transferred at any point so far?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's hard to know, Wolf. The 25th Amendment which was ratified in the mid '60s, most people think it was a reaction to the assassination of John Kennedy, but I think it was more a reaction to the heart attack 10 years earlier and prolonged disability of President Eisenhower.

So, the first section deals with the death of the President, the Vice President takes over. The second one deals with the death of the Vice President, the President appoints a new one. Section 3 which George W. Bush invoked twice is when the President voluntarily relinquishes power of the presidency and then takes it back.

Section 4 which has never been invoked is when the power is taken involuntarily from the President either because he is incapacitated or because a majority of the Cabinet and the Vice President feel that he is incapable of fulfilling the duties.

Presumably the President's physician would have to be involved and I don't have high confidence that Dr. Conley has the standing to basically initiate these proceedings or it would have to come from the Vice President and I don't see that happening.

But let's think of what's happened in the last couple of days. We know from Dr. Conley that the President has had two episodes where his blood oxygen level has dropped to concerning levels. When your blood oxygen drops, you don't think so well.

[19:45:10]

REINER: We also know now that the President is on high doses of steroids, that's the dexamethasone. And anyone who has taken steroids know they make you a little crazy sometimes, and an older person, particularly one with pneumonia can have difficulty processing on steroids.

So I would have a very low threshold to consider asking the President about invoking Section 3 and temporarily giving power to the Vice President.

This is not a joke, and if the President suddenly gets sicker during the night or his blood oxygenation drops, there needs to be a Commander-in-Chief at all times. So this is a real discussion.

BLITZER: Yes, and I asked the questions precisely because of that, because the President is taking these three very powerful drugs and so many other coronavirus patients have said over these past several months that they felt during the course of their treatment, they weren't thinking as cogently as they normally would and that's potentially a problem.

But Dana, the optics of transferring power, does President Trump fear, though, it could potentially make him look weak and we're talking, what, a month before the election?

BASH: Absolutely. Just in covering President Trump and knowing him and talking to people around him all the time, including today, it would take so much -- I can't even think of something that it would take for the President to voluntarily say that he is going to transfer power over -- just because he's on medication.

You know, the whole notion of strength versus weakness is inherent to who he is. It's his whole DNA. It's his brand being strong and not weak, and that is one of the reasons why we had such a confusing message from his own doctor yesterday and today.

In fact, his doctor basically admitted it at his press conference today. So it is very hard to see this President doing what George W. Bush did for example, and, you know, the handful of other times it's happened voluntarily.

BLITZER: You know, he tested positive. We got the word very late Thursday night, Dr. Reiner, you were on CNN at the time, around 1:00 a.m. It was actually Friday morning. How long will he be contagious, shall we say, and don't you get sicker a week or even two weeks after you test positive?

REINER: Right. So most people are contagious for about a week to ten days. But, again, we don't know when he tested positive. He might very well be towards the end of his sort of infectious period if he was originally positive, you know, a week ago which is why the White House has to answer this question.

There's no national security interest that would prohibit them from telling us the last time the President was tested negative. I think what is getting in their way is the fact is they haven't been testing him every day, and to tell us when he last tested negative will prove that point and it might be very embarrassing when we find out that he hasn't been tested in many days.

We need to know that answer because it impacts exactly the question that you asked and it helps us to understand whether the worst is sort of behind us. If he has been positive for a week and now his pulse oxygen is getting better and maybe his x-ray is getting better, ye, he might be on the road to recovery.

If he tested positive for the first time on Thursday and was negative on Wednesday and Tuesday, oh, no, then the worst is yet to come. Then the worst is later this week.

BLITZER: Yes. That's an important point, too.

REINER: We should note that they need to disclose us.

BLITZER: They should tell us that. I don't know why they refuse to do so.

Dr. Reiner, thanks again. Dana, I know you're going to be coming back. Stand by. We are going to have much more on the President's hospitalization just ahead. Also, we're following another major story this hour. New York City's

coronavirus fight across nine neighborhoods and the Mayor is proposing new lockdowns that could start this week. We'll have the latest developments when we come back.

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BLITZER: Much more on the President's hospitalization coming up.

Troubling news out of New York City right now, after such notable success in flattening the curve. Cases of coronavirus are now on the rise again and now the mayor, Bill de Blasio is proposing closing down schools and nonessential businesses in at least some parts of New York City to try to slow down this new surge.

CNN's Evan McMorris-Santoro is joining us right now. Evan, give us details on what the mayor is actually proposing.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you say, this is really the first big step back this city has experienced in its long journey forward battling against this disease.

And what the mayor is proposing is shutting down schools and nonessential businesses in nine zip codes where the infection rate has been above three percent for seven consecutive days.

In 11 other zip codes near those nine, he is proposing closing down gyms and pools, and indoor dining, which just reopened here.

Now, as I said, these are proposals. He needs the governor to sign off on it. We haven't heard from the Governor officially yet, but he did say in a statement before the mayor spoke today that he is prepared to step in to close down businesses if local governments cannot get those restrictions obeyed -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Evan, thanks. We will stay in touch with you.

[19:55:09]

BLITZER: Coming up, amid contradicting messages about his condition, President Trump now says he has learned a lot about the coronavirus, but instead of isolating, the President actually used his motorcade for a photo-op. We will have details when we come back.

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