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More Than 22 Million Votes Cast In 45 States And D.C.; Trump Goes On Rally Blitz As 10 States Break COVID-19 Records; Trump Could Face Legal Reckoning Once He Leaves Office; Trump Refuses To Denounce QAnon Conspiracy Theories; Europe Seeing Rise In New COVID-19 Infections; Italy Reports Record New Cases As Second Wave Grips Europe. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 17, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:09]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I am Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

It's the homestretch of the 2020 election here in the United States, with just 17 days to go until Election Day. And even though the President is claiming it's the homestretch of the coronavirus pandemic, he is wrong.

More than 69,000 Americans were infected just yesterday across the country with experts now warning, it could get a whole lot worse in the weeks and months ahead.

Right now, 10 states are reporting their highest single day coronavirus case totals since the start of the pandemic. And Michigan and Wisconsin are just two of the states reporting dramatic surges in new infections.

The President today is in both of those states. He is holding a rally this hour in Michigan, headed to Wisconsin later this evening. It's the sixth day of rally since he was diagnosed with coronavirus.

He has been downplaying the dangers of the virus and is also threatening to actually lock up his political opponents, even suggesting last night he would leave the United States if he loses.

Let's get right to Michigan. Our senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns is on the scene for us.

Joe, Michigan has seen record numbers of COVID cases. Do the attendees at tonight's rally seem to be concerned about that at all? We know what a battleground state Michigan is.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right, a full house here at the Muskegon Airport, Wolf. And I can tell you this, if you look at the head on camera that is recording the President right now you'll probably see a lot of people who are wearing masks, but in the crowd at large and it's a large crowd, you don't see that many people wearing masks. They're very sparse.

And there is no social distancing, of course. That's an issue too, especially because here in this state, yesterday, we had 2,000 new cases of coronavirus; today, about 1800. The numbers are simply not good.

Another thing that happened here today, the President did mention Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. Now, they've had words. These two really have a history.

The President has been highly critical of her because of the restrictions she has placed on the state having to do with coronavirus. When the President mentioned her today, there was also a chant from the crowd that many of us find familiar, something we heard harking all the way back to 2016. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You've got to get your governor to open up your state, okay?

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

TRUMP: And get your schools open. Get your schools open. The schools have to be open, right?

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

AUDIENCE: (Chanting "Lock her up.")

TRUMP: Lock them all up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Now in a vacuum, that's seemingly harmless rhetoric, but you have to remember that very recently, 13 individuals were arrested in a plot to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer. So that makes it much more serious in that context -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, and that followed a tweet from the President, in which he said, "Liberate Michigan." And also earlier in the week, he said, Governor Whitmer is behaving like a dictator. He used that word, "dictator."

We will much more on this coming up. Joe Johns on the scene for us. Thank you very much from Michigan.

Let's head over to another key battleground state, Wisconsin, where a crowd is now waiting to see the President for what will be his second political campaign rally of the night. Jeremy Diamond is on the ground for us.

So, Jeremy, with just 17 days to go before Election Day here in the United States, and already more than 22 million Americans have already voted, early voting going on. What is President Trump's closing message to the swing state voters? JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you're

hearing a lot of what we hear from the President typically on the campaign trail. You hear a lot of the red meat that he likes to throw out there for his audience as Joe was just talking about.

What you're also hearing from the President in this final stretch of the campaign is to try and essentially convince voters, to convince Americans that what they are seeing and what is happening in this country somehow is not happening and what I'm talking about here specifically, Wolf, is the surge in cases of coronavirus that is happening right now in most states in the United States.

Across the country, cases up on average about 30 percent up from over the last two weeks. The President every day in the last week has tried to spread misinformation about mask wearing and he is also pointing to a surge in cases in Europe, even though the situation in the United States in terms of number of cases per capita, in terms of number of deaths per capita is far, far worse.

[18:05:25]

DIAMOND: And so, Wolf, the President seems to have made the gamble that even as voters are more concerned about the coronavirus than any other issue, that the only way that he thinks that he can convince people to vote for him and try and save his reelection prospects is to convince people that the situation is not as bad as it really is, Wolf.

And nowhere is that message more acute than if you are in the State of Wisconsin, which is experiencing one of the worst spikes anywhere in the country right now, and it is certainly concerning as you arrive at a rally like this, where you see several thousand people, Wolf, packed closely together. No social distancing is happening here whatsoever, and most people, Wolf, are not wearing masks.

BLITZER: Yes, Wisconsin is going through a very, very horrible situation right now. The President will be heading from Michigan to Wisconsin later tonight.

Jeremy Diamond on the scene for us. Thank you very much.

Meanwhile, the Surgeon General of the United States, Jerome Adams is warning that Wisconsin is way too red and he is not talking about politics, he is talking about the rising COVID positivity rate.

Wisconsin is not alone. Look at this. It's one of 10 states that reported their highest number yet of new COVID cases on Friday.

Let's discuss this and more with CNN medical analyst, the former Baltimore Health Commissioner Dr. Leana Wen and Dr. Peter Hotez, the vaccine expert and Dean of the School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor University.

Dr. Hotez, overall, there's way too much red across the United States. The numbers are awful. How concerned are you about the next few weeks and months when you see first of all these large gatherings with limited mask wearing and virtually no social distancing?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN OF THE SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Wolf, what is happening now is my heart is breaking because I know what's going to follow which are the permanent injuries and deaths.

What we're heading towards very quickly, maybe by tonight or tomorrow is 70,000 new cases per day and then we'll head to 80,000 new cases per day.

If you remember, Dr. Fauci's apocalyptic scenario where he said we're going -- we could reach 100,000 new cases per day. I think we're going to head now finally towards that mark as we progress through the fall and winter, colder months, and it is happening right where the President is holding the rallies up in Wisconsin, Michigan, the northern Midwest, going into Montana, the Dakotas.

So this is absolutely devastating. We are about to enter the worst part of our COVID-19 epidemic which has already been so devastating for the American people.

BLITZER: You know, you're making a really important point, and Dr. Wen, when you look at the overall case numbers, you can see there was a dip in numbers at the end of August, but since then, they've started tracking a major league.

Just take a look at the rise in cases and what's going on this week here in the United States, and we'll put that graphic back up on the screen.

Monday, there were 41,000. Tuesday 52,000. Wednesday 59,000. Thursday 63,000. Yesterday, Friday 69,000 confirmed coronavirus cases in the United States. So those are so awful. Tell us what's going on?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Wolf, I agree with Dr. Hotez that all of these numbers indicate that we are trending in the wrong direction. This is exactly where we did not want to be headed into the winter.

And I think what's happening now is a confluence of factors. We have reopening that was done after Memorial Day. We had a big surge after Memorial Day and at that point, we saw major surges in the South and the West, the Sunbelt. Then we saw surges in the Midwest, the upper Midwest, while these other areas never plateaued, they never reached a low enough level of infection.

Now, there are essentially raging infections out of control in multiple parts of the country. But I think that at this point, we need to say that there is yes, there is a lot that the Federal government can and should have done and should still be doing now. But in the absence of that, there is still a lot that we, as individuals can be doing. Starting with something as basic as wearing masks, but also avoiding gatherings, practicing social distancing. We can make a difference in our communities and also protect ourselves and our loved ones, too. BLITZER: Yes, and the President keeps suggesting we are going in the

right direction, that it is disappearing, one of the words he used in recent days.

Dr. Hotez I know you and your team are working on one of the possible vaccines. You've been focusing in on coronavirus like SARS for more than a decade. The Federal program Operation Warp Speed claims it will be able to deliver 300 million doses of a safe and effective COVID-19 vaccine maybe by the end of the year, do you really think that's possible?

[18:10:06]

HOTEZ: Well, hopefully about the end of the year, Wolf, maybe by the end of November, we'll know whether any of the three vaccines that are in later stage Phase 3 trials: the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine, the Moderna mRNA vaccine, and the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine, whether any of them are actually working, and are safe.

And once we get that signal, then we can start begin releasing it to the public, possibly through emergency use authorization, so the F.D.A. has done a good job of late in making certain that these vaccines still reach a very high standard, even though it's not quite the same as full approval, I think it'll closely approximate it. And then we can begin releasing it.

Now, 300 million doses is a lot, of course, but the way I like to think of it is remember, every year we release 100 million doses of flu vaccine, and we do it over a very short period of time, over several months. So this is a little more complicated, especially if it's one of the mRNA vaccines that is shown to work, because it requires that deep, deep freeze in the case of the Pfizer one, minus 94 degrees Fahrenheit, so that will complicate it.

And now, they've put the U.S. Military out in front to help in distribution. We've never done that before. General Perna seems to have a good understanding of material and distribution from his experiences as an Army General. So we have some unknowns.

Using the U.S. Military, we haven't done that before, and 300 million is not 100 million and that deep freeze, but overall, I have some optimism. And I'm excited to finally see some vaccine being released and to get some virus neutralizing antibodies, and all of us to -- especially as the Federal government has not been willing to embark on any kind of meaningful national control program, that's all we have -- we'll have at this point, is the vaccine.

BLITZER: And I just want to point out with Dr. Fauci, Dr. Wen, has told me over the past few weeks that several of these potential vaccines and we hope, they're all going to work or they're all going to be safe and effective. But some of them might require not one dose, but two doses, let's say a month or four weeks apart.

So if you have 300 million available, that's really good for 150 million people if you need two doses. And he also says, Dr. Wen, that it would be great if they were 60 or 70 percent effective. That means what? That 30 percent of those who get the two doses, let's say, it's not going to make much of a difference. Is that what I'm hearing?

WEN: Yes, I think we need to see the vaccine approval process as the beginning, not as the end point, because there still will be many more steps that are involved in distribution in manufacturing, especially if there are two doses, you might lose people given the second dose.

And even after this vaccine is actually given to people, it may still beam as you said, Wolf, 60 to 70 percent effective, which means that the vaccine alone is not going to be our savior. We will also continue to have these measures, including mask wearing and social distancing that will probably continue in order for us to reduce as much harm as possible.

And so there's a long road ahead of us. But I think right now, we need to focus on getting past this winter, because otherwise this could be the deadliest winter in our recent history. But there are things that we can do in order to prevent that from happening.

BLITZER: And one of the things everyone could do it I did it to myself this past week, get a flu shot. It's really important for everyone to go out there and get a flu shot because this combination of the regular flu season with the coronavirus that could make things even worse than they already are.

You know, Dr. Hotez, Europe is also hitting record numbers right now. Some regions are imposing new curfews, partial lockdowns, is that what it's going to take to get this under control?

HOTEZ: Yes, it may be. One of the things I'm worried about, Wolf, is that this is happening in a very difficult period in American life. The numbers are going to rise steeply in November, December and January, depending on the outcome of the election on November 3, this may be a lame duck Executive Branch of the Federal government.

How do we ensure that we still have leadership in place in order to help provide those directives and advice from the C.D.C.? So there's a combination of factors that makes me very worried that the numbers will be rising steeply, how engaged the Federal government will be during these next few months is unclear.

And I'm worried about the mental health of the country. People are going to get scared. They are going to get upset and maybe even depressed. This is a normal reaction to a stressful situation.

So I think we really need to figure out how we're going to step up mental healthcare in this country over the next few months and provide access to that and advise people how to do social distancing, who to do social distancing with. We're getting a lot of communication and hand holding from the Federal government.

I'm a little worried that it may not be there. So a lot will fall to the governors. It's going to be a tough time.

[18:15:05]

BLITZER: And even if there is God-willing, a safe and effective vaccine that comes up, let's say by the end of this year, and we begin to start getting it in major numbers next year, Dr. Fauci has also told me in recent weeks, we should all plan on wearing masks for much of next year at a minimum, because it's going to be just to be on the safe side of things.

Dr. Wen, thank you so much. Dr. Hotez, thanks to you as well. Thanks to both of you for what you're doing for the American public, and indeed for the world.

Making up for lost time. President Trump is now in overdrive with several rallies yesterday, two more today, trying to close the gap with Joe Biden with only 17 days left in the campaign.

Stay with us. Lots of news unfolding right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Only 17 days until this election ends, at least at the ballot box, but early voting is off to a resounding start with more than 22 million votes already cast in 45 states, as well as here in Washington, D.C. and take a look at the numbers in these five states compared to this point back in 2016.

[18:20:14]

BLITZER: Illinois is seeing a fourfold increase in mail and in-person voting. President Trump is now turning his attention to some of these very states, even though they are normally solid Republican strongholds.

Our senior political commentator, David Axelrod is joining us right now. So what does it tell you, David, that some normally red or Republican leaning states are also seeing a dramatic surge in early voting?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think there's going to be heavy voting everywhere. We've seen indications of that for some time. The turnout in the midterm elections was quite heavy, and it was heavy in some Republican areas as well as Democratic strongholds.

And then you look at polling and the interest that people are reporting in this election is a record high. So you know, I've said for some time, I think we're going to have over 150 million people voting and it may, on a percentage basis, be the most participated in election we've seen since 1960.

BLITZER: Wow. That's major, indeed. You know, the map included Georgia and North Carolina, David. I want to show our viewers the President's travel schedule from yesterday right into next week.

We see Georgia and North Carolina, not to mention Arizona. These would normally be sort of firewalls for a Republican incumbent President. Does he gain ground by going there clearly with the clock ticking, time running out? AXELROD: Well, first of all, let's point out what it means. Those

states are very competitive. Georgia, a state he won by five points last time. Biden is a shade ahead in polling. In North Carolina Biden is ahead by a few points in polling averages.

The President is playing defense all over the country. He went to Des Moines, Iowa, a state that he won by nine points last time. He has been to Ohio State that he also went by nine points last time. These are all bad signs when you are playing defense this late in the campaign. Does it help him to go? I mean, in the sense that it stirs excitement among his supporters, yes.

The problem is what the President does when he goes there. The things that he says when he goes there. When you go to these places and tell people that we're rounding the corner on the virus or you open up in some bizarre way on the Biden family and call them a criminal enterprise and say that they should be locked up. You're not helping yourself there. You're only exacerbating your problem.

And I'm sure it's exasperating to his campaign team, because they don't know what he is going to do when he gets on that platform, and it isn't always very helpful.

BLITZER: He was very active on Twitter today. David, at one point, he posted a tweet saying "Biden is a national security threat." He is talking -- we're talking about the former Vice President of the United States, and he is saying Biden is a national security threat.

There you see the tweet right there. It's not a retweet. This is the President, a presidential statement. When you see that what's your reaction?

AXELROD: Well, my reaction is that he is a guy who projects. I mean, there have been many questions about the President's own approach to national security and to classified information. You know, when you said yesterday that Biden's family was a criminal enterprise, it is only the President whose family enterprise is being investigated by local authorities in New York for the way they've done their business.

So it's really -- it's really peculiar, and I'm telling you, it does not help him.

If you are running a rational campaign, you look at the polling, he still gets good -- you know, some good marks on the economy, and he would be -- you'd be driving in that direction and asking people who is best equipped to rebuild the economy to try and make that case. I think a lot of Republicans wish he would do that.

But instead, he is a super spreader of conspiracy theories, and then he gets into these strange side fights like he did today with Ben Sasse, a senator from Nebraska, a Republican who had been critical of him.

BLITZER: Hold on for a moment. Hold on for a moment. I'm going to play a clip. Here is the Republican senator from Nebraska, Ben Sasse, speaking about the incumbent Republican President of the United States.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): I'm now looking at the plus possibility of a Republican blood bath in the Senate, and that's why I've never been on the Trump train. It's why I didn't agree to serve on his re-election committee, and it's why I'm not campaigning for him.

I think we are staring down the barrel of a blue tsunami.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's your reaction when you hear Senator Ben Sasse make those comments and he has gone way, way further in criticizing the President.

AXELROD: Now in fairness, he did not support the President in 2016, but he has been very careful about where he intervenes and what he says. The fact that he is speaking out so boldly now, he really backed up the truck, Wolf, if you listened to the whole thing.

[18:25:07]

AXELROD: He went on for minutes and minutes and minutes on a conference call with 17,000 supporters. He is sophisticated enough to know that that was not a private conversation. So he wanted people to hear what he was saying.

And I think he reflects the thinking of a lot of Republicans right now that this is going in the wrong direction, and the President is headed for a defeat, and he could take a lot of Republicans down with him. And you hear that privately from Republican Senator Sasse who said publicly what many of them are saying privately.

BLITZER: Yes, and the President on Twitter today really went after Senator Ben Sasse. At one point, he called him on Twitter, stupid.

All right, David Axelrod, thank you very, very much.

As President Trump sees his re-election in clear jeopardy. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUDIENCE: (Chanting "Lock her up.")

TRUMP: Lock them all up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He is now once again calling for his rivals to be locked up. What's he talking about? We'll discuss when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:32] BLITZER: Seventeen days left in the presidential campaign here in the

United States and the stakes could not be higher for President Trump. It's not just his second term that's on the line, an election loss potentially could mean he would also lose some of the legal protections afforded by the presidency, making him vulnerable, potentially, to a number of serious investigations and lawsuits that are already underway.

Let's bring in our Chief Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin. He's joining us now. His important new book is entitled, by the way, True Crimes and Misdemeanors: The Investigation of Donald Trump. There you see the book cover.

Jeffrey, the President said something really striking last night, watch this listen. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I shouldn't joke because you know what? Running against the worst candidate in the history of presidential politics puts pressure on me. Could you imagine if I lose, my whole life, what am I going to do? I'm going to say I lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics. I'm not going to feel so good, maybe I'll have to leave the country. I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You got some laughter there. He was making a joke, but you think he is worried about these potential legal proceedings? I mean, I don't think he would seriously consider leaving the United States to avoid potential punishment, but he does face some serious legal problems if he's defeated, it makes it easier for the district attorney in New York, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and others to go after him.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. One of the things the President has been particularly successful with during his tenure in office has been putting off these investigations of his personal life, whether these are personal injury lawsuits for sexual harassment by Jean Carroll and others. And of course, the criminal investigation from the Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance.

Even though Cyrus Vance won in the Supreme Court in June, he hasn't been able to get these records yet. All of those protections that the President has used will end if he leaves office in January, in which case he'll just be an ordinary target of an investigation and an ordinary defendant in civil cases where he'll have to defend himself and we'll see whether he wins or loses.

BLITZER: Tell us about some historical precedent for the prosecution of a former American president.

TOOBIN: Well, the most famous possible prosecution was of Richard Nixon who was at great legal jeopardy in the Watergate cover up trial. But shortly after Gerald Ford took office, Gerald Ford issued a pre emptive pardon of Richard Nixon, which ended his criminal liability, the possibility of any sort of criminal prosecution.

I think one thing we can say pretty much for sure is that Joe Biden, if he wins, is not going to be pardoning Donald Trump. So any sort of criminal investigation will proceed and in any event a federal pardon from the President wouldn't cover a state investigation, like the one that's going on in New York. So Trump will have to face these cases on his own if any case is brought.

BLITZER: Well, politically and potentially legally, what would it mean if an ex-President of the United States were to be prosecuted? Would that start a cycle of former presidents facing prosecution as soon as the opposing party, let's say, were to take power?

TOOBIN: Well, see, that's one of the problems with this whole subject and my guess is, it's an educated guess but it's still just a guess, is that Joe Biden's Justice Department, of course, if Biden wins will not engage in investigation of Donald Trump. The Mueller investigation found significant evidence that the President committed obstruction of justice. That case could be prosecuted.

But I think Biden and his team know that if the United States Department of Justice starts investigating or prosecuting Donald Trump, that's the only story in America that dominates the Biden presidency. And I think Biden has a lot of other things he preferred to spend his time on and his political capital on than the investigation of Donald Trump.

So if there's going to be a criminal investigation, it's going to come out of the states, especially New York.

[18:35:03]

BLITZER: Can we simply assume, Jeffrey, that if he's reelected, he doesn't have to worry at all about any of these potential criminal investigations?

TOOBIN: I don't know about at all. I mean, it is true that the United States Department of Justice policy, which forbids indictments of sitting presidents, it's a policy. It's not a law. But Robert Muller felt bound by it. That doesn't apply to the states. So it is theoretically possible that the Manhattan district attorney could indict Donald Trump, even if he was president.

But I think realistically, the chances for his being prosecuted and certainly for his ability to keep civil cases at bay is enormously helped by getting reelected. If he loses, all of those protections are gone.

BLITZER: Yes, that's a really significant. We're seeing a clear pattern emerge in the President's rallies, especially last night and today, watch and listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm telling you that Biden family and others, but that Biden family is corrupt. It's a corrupt family. And with me and my kids - let me tell you, my kids - I'll tell you

something. It is fair to lock them up. You should lock them up. Lock up the Bidens. Lock up Hillary. Lock them up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So what's your reaction when you see that where he's threatening his political opponent?

TOOBIN: I think we've gotten so used to the things that Donald Trump says that we lose the ability to be outraged. But there are few more outrageous things that he has said as President than he wants to lock up his political opponents. This is something that has not been set in American political history.

One difference between American democracy in authoritarian countries is that politics is not used as an instrument of prosecution. You didn't hear Dwight Eisenhower saying Adlai Stevenson should be locked up or John Kennedy saying that Richard Nixon should be locked up or Ronald Reagan saying that Walter Mondale should be locked up.

It's just something that was completely outside the realm of what's acceptable in American politics. I certainly hope we return to that someday, because it's really pernicious and it's a betrayal of what American democracy has stood for. And unfortunately, the sheer repetition of the lock them up chants and the lock them up statements by the President have sort of deadened us to just how outrageous it really is.

BLITZER: It certainly is totally outrageous. So Jeffrey Toobin well said. Thank you very, very much. President Trump is one to usually tout his ratings, but Thursday's dueling townhall with Joe Biden didn't deliver those numbers, despite being broadcast on several television networks, so we'll have more on that just ahead. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:42:24]

BLITZER: During this week's a town hall, President Trump said he didn't know anything at all about the QAnon conspiracy theory but he has repeated QAnon base claims with his own social media accounts and at his rallies that draw vocal believers. CNN said Gary Tuchman talked to some of them in Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You have the QAnon shirt and one of the things QAnon believes in is there's this conspiracy theory of satanic pedophilia, do you people even that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, thank you.

TUCHMAN: You do?

Trump has not criticized the conspiracy QAnon, you say you believe in theories like this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes, sir, a hundred percent.

TUCHMAN: Do you think he has your back by not criticizing it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I really do. Yes.

TUCHMAN: Do you think he should have denounced QAnon?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

TUCHMAN: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because why should he.

TUCHMAN: Because they believe in crazy stuff, a pedophile ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that's what you guys try to make us believe, crazy stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Brian Stelter is joining us now. He's the host of CNN's RELIABLE SOURCES. He's also out with a brand new best-selling book entitled Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth. Brian, thanks for joining us.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

BLITZER: So what do you make of the President's rhetoric when it comes to QAnon?

STELTER: QAnon is an actual hoax and a dangerous folks. It's already been linked to violence in the United States. And by having the President say he doesn't know what it's about and by saying, well, I hear they're very opposed to pedophilia as if anybody supports pedophilia, he's giving permission to his supporters to go Google it, search it, look it up, support it and buy into this concept.

It is really disturbing that a virtual cult, that's what QAnon is, it's a virtual cult that's been labeled by the FBI as a potential terrorism risk is something the President doesn't forthrightly and very clearly denounce. But instead, he tiptoes because he knows many of his supporters are also QAnon believers.

I think we need to keep an eye on this, Wolf. It's going to continue to be a problem in the final stretch of the campaign.

BLITZER: I think you're right. The President also refused to do, as we know, what was called for a virtual head-to-head debate with Joe Biden this past week.

STELTER: Debate, yes. BLITZER: And then scheduled a competing town hall. His campaign

manager Jason Miller predicted they beat Biden in a metric that really, as we all know, seriously matters to the President. We're talking about television ratings, but that's not what happened.

STELTER: Yes.

BLITZER: Tell us more.

STELTER: This was a shock to people at ABC and NBC and even at the Biden campaign, because Trump and Biden were head-to-head. There was an assumption Trump would prevail in the ratings race, but here are the actual ratings. ABC's town hall with Biden had about a 14 million viewers. The Trump Town Hall wasn't Not able to surpass that even though it was broadcast on three different channels. You see Biden ahead of Trump.

[18:45:06]

So what does that mean? Is it a sign of Trump fatigue? I suspect it probably is.

There was a great piece in Politico recently by Tim Alberta. He quoted a Trump supporter saying, look, I love the President, I support the President, but even I'm tired of the President. I wish he wouldn't make so much news and be out in front so often.

So I think that the idea of Trump fatigue is real and it might be showing up in the ratings.

BLITZER: The President today is also tweeting an attack against the moderator of this coming week's presidential debate, Kristen Welker of NBC News, who's an excellent, excellent reporter and journalist calling her, according to the President, terrible and unfair. What was your reaction?

STELTER: This is the best example and the worst example of the President working the reps ahead of time. He does this before every major event, but we still should point it out and call it out for what it is. He's trying to work the rest in order to get favorable treatment ahead of the next debate, but I think it's a good sign that he says he's going to go to the next debate. It's disappointing that there wasn't a debate last Thursday, the American people lost out.

So at least he says he is going to show up, but he's challenging and calling out and criticizing this moderator for no good reason based on New York Post hit job. I think, Wolf, obviously both candidates deserve fairness and fair treatment of this debate, but there is no reason to believe that Welker is going to be unfair to the President.

BLITZER: Yes. She's a really excellent journalist. All right. Brian Stelter, thank you very much.

STELTER: Thanks.

BLITZER: And to our viewers, an important note, tune in tomorrow morning for RELIABLE SOURCES with Brian Stelter 11 am Eastern always, always important information there.

After a chaotic first debate, a presidential health crisis a controversial debate cancellation and competing town halls, Joe Biden and Donald Trump face off one last time. The final presidential debate is coming and special live coverage starts Thursday 7 pm Eastern right after THE SITUATION ROOM.

Meanwhile, Europe's first epicenter is seeing a major spike in coronavirus cases right now. Italy is hitting new records as the second wave of the virus grips Europe. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

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[18:51:29]

BLITZER: We're following some breaking news just coming on THE SITUATION ROOM, the University of Florida's head football coach has tested positive for coronavirus. Dan Mullen revealed his diagnosis on Twitter. He says he's experiencing mild symptoms and is self- isolating. The Florida Gators were supposed to play LSU today, but their matchup is now postponed until December after at least 21 Team members tested positive. Mullen says everyone is recovering well. We wish everyone of course a speedy recovery.

New coronavirus infections are rising across Europe. Right now European nations which had sharply reduced infection rates are earlier this year with strict lockdowns are now seeing their numbers surge once again as measures were relaxed. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Italy where nearly 11,000 new cases were reported just today. That's a record there, Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it is fourth day in a row, Italy has reported record-high daily increases in the number of new coronavirus cases, numbers far higher than we saw earlier this year when Italy was the European epicenter of the pandemic. Nonetheless, the number of deaths, daily deaths, remained relatively low still in the double digits.

Now, we're in a rainy Naples today, where the region's Governor has imposed new restrictions closing down schools and universities. And earlier today we had a chance to speak with the region's Senior Infectious Disease Specialist who told us that the region is taking a much more aggressive proactive approach to testing all of this in the hopes of slowing down this rather disturbing new surge in the number of new cases, Wolf.

BLITZER: Ben Wedeman reporting from Italy. In England, meanwhile, the British Prime Minister Boris Johnson says the situation in the City of Manchester is grave, but he's facing resistance from Manchester's Mayor. CNN Salma Abdelaziz explains. Salma.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Wolf, the Mayor of Manchester is in an extraordinary standoff with Prime Minister Boris Johnson. The mayor has essentially so far refused to raise the COVID alert level of the city to very high, the top tier. The Mayor's argument is, A, that he disagrees with the Prime Minister's strategy. He says that small limited regional lockdowns will not work and he is advocating for a nationwide lockdown instead.

The second part of his argument is that if Prime Minister Boris Johnson insists on his strategy, this is what the mayor says, then he needs to provide the economic package necessary to support businesses. Now, we've spoken to one local MP who says he expects talks between the authorities of Manchester and the government of Prime Minister Boris Johnson to resume on Monday. But while all of this political volume goes on, the infection rate continues to rise at current rates. Manchester will run out of hospital beds in a matter of weeks, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Salma Abdelaziz, thank you very much. In China, a relatively small coronavirus outbreak has led to mass testings, testing of millions of people. CNN correspondent Selina Wang has more. Selina.

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, China has tested more than 10 million people for COVID-19 in less than a week. This testing blitz was in response to just a dozen locally transmitted cases that were reported last weekend in Qingdao, the northeastern city in China.

They found that the cluster is linked to dock workers were treated at a local hospital. The room where they got the CT scans wasn't disinfected properly which led to more infections.

[18:55:05]

Two local officials in Qingdao have already been fired over this latest outbreak. Before this latest flare up, China hadn't reported a single locally transmitted case since mid-August. We have seen China use this playbook before with clusters found in Beijing, Xinjiang, Dalian and Wuhan where the city goes into wartime mode with mass testing, contact tracing and restrictions.

Beijing is especially concerned about this particular outbreak, even just a handful of cases and Qingdao since this is coming right after China's Golden Week holiday when more than half a billion people in China were traveling at the same time, Wolf.

BLITZER: Selina Wang reporting for us, thank you. President Trump is headed to Wisconsin this hour for another political campaign rally despite Wisconsin now reporting a record spike in coronavirus cases. We're going there next. We'll be right back.

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