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The Situation Room
U.S. Nears 221,000 Deaths And Tops 8.2 Million Cases As Coronavirus Second Wave Surges; Thirty-two Million Early Votes Cast Two Weeks Before Election; Trump & Biden In Tough Battle For 270 Electoral Votes; Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) Is Interviewed About The New Economic Stimulus Package; Pelosi Hopeful For Stimulus Deal By End Of Week As McConnell Suggests Little Appetite Before Election; Miami Beach Mayor: Florida Gov. Pursuing "Herd Immunity" Strategy; Around 60,000 Injected In Chinese Vaccine Trials. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 20, 2020 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: May his memory and then memories of all those lost in this horrible pandemic, be a blessing.
Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I will see you tomorrow.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM and we're following breaking news.
The coronavirus death toll here in the United States now nearing 221,000 people with more than 8.2 million confirmed cases, as the second wave of the pandemic washes across the United States.
Also breaking President Trump heading to the key battleground state of Pennsylvania, as he and Joe Biden battle to secure a path to 270 electoral votes. That's what's needed to win the presidency with just two weeks, two weeks left in the race, and both candidates are set to square off at a final debate in just two days.
The President saying he may change his strategy. And the Biden advisor telling CNN the former vice president is ready for President Trump to, "bully and deflect" on the debate stage. It should be lively.
Let's begin this hour with our White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. She's already in Erie, Pennsylvania.
Kaitlan the President is holding another rally where you are in another key battleground state where the coronavirus is surging.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.
And before the President left to come here already scheduled to leave in the next few minutes, he was at the White House where he was supposed to be taping an interview with "60 Minutes" because they're doing a sit down with the President, the Vice President and of course Joe Biden and Senator Kamala Harris as well. But we are told there is apparently some drama happening at the White House as that interview was underway.
And we're told by sources that after about 45 minutes, the President abruptly ended the interview and did not return for what was supposed to be a scheduled walk and talk session with the vice president that he was going to tape later on. And instead, Mike Pence taped his own interview and they did not appear together on camera.
After clearly something happened behind the scenes during this interview because then the President tweeted out this video of Lesley Stahl, the woman who interviewed him for "60 Minutes" criticizing her, Wolf, for not wearing a mask he said after their interview was over. Though, of course, this is a President who has regularly questioned the use of mask and the benefits of them. And he's on his way here to a rally where, we should note, many of the people in attendance are not wearing masks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I'm going to Erie, Pennsylvania today which is -- which I love.
COLLINS (voice-over): Tonight, President Trump will rally supporters in the key battleground state of Pennsylvania, where his poll numbers have dropped as coronavirus cases have surged.
TRUMP: We're in the middle of a battle that we have to win.
COLLINS: First Lady Melania Trump was supposed to join Trump in Pennsylvania for her first public appearance since getting coronavirus but she cancelled hours beforehand because of what our chief of staff said was a lingering cough.
TRUMP: The rallies are rallies like in history.
COLLINS: Despite signs the U.S. is headed toward another coronavirus peak, the President has continued to hold large rallies while attacking Dr. Anthony Fauci following his interview with "60 Minutes."
TRUMP: But he did say something that we kept him off television. And yet we allowed him to do "60 Minutes" the other night. He couldn't do without our approval.
So, how do we keep him off television but by the way, do "60 Minutes." Look, he's a nice guy. The only thing I say is he's a little bit sometimes not a team player.
COLLINS: Trump and Fauci rarely come face to face anymore and the Director of the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Francis Collins, says the president is mainly getting his COVID-19 updates from other sources.
DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH: I think the President primarily is getting his information from the vice president, from Dr. Atlas.
COLLINS: Trump's trip to Pennsylvania comes one day after a deadlocked Supreme Court let a ruling stand that would allow Pennsylvania to count mail in ballots up to three days after Election Day. A major win for Democrats that Trump criticized today while his third pick for the Supreme Court awaits a confirmation vote.
TRUMP: We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election is over. We got a strange ruling from the Supreme Court yesterday. That was very strange.
COLLINS: In the final days before the election, President Trump is attempting to use the power of the federal government to benefit him by calling on Attorney General Bill Barr to launch an investigation into Biden.
TRUMP: He's got to act and he's got to act fast. He's got to appoint somebody. This is major corruption, and this has to be known about before the election.
COLLINS: Without basis, Trump now regularly labels his political opponent a criminal.
TRUMP: And as far as I'm concerned, the Biden family is a criminal enterprise.
COLLINS: The President says he'll still show up in Nashville Thursday for the next presidential debate after the commission that organizes them announced that both candidates microphones will be muted for parts of the debate in hopes of making it more coherent than the last one.
[17:05:11]
TRUMP: He made a statement about the military. You said I said something about the military.
COLLINS: Now at the beginning of each segment, Trump and Biden will have two minutes to answer the question, while the others audio feed is turned off.
TRUMP: There's nothing fair about this debate. But that's OK.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Now, Wolf, in that same interview just this morning, the President said he would like to have a larger coronavirus relief bill than what even Democrats have offered as they are going back and forth with the White House trying to negotiate. But our Capitol Hill team is now told that during the senate lunch today, that Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell indicated there was very little appetite for any kind of a big coronavirus stimulus bill being passed before the election, even as the President this morning sounded confident he could get Republicans on board.
Right now, based off that lunch a few hours later, it does not sound like they are on the same page with the President when it comes to a next coronavirus relief package. Wolf.
BLITZER: And so many millions of Americans are suffering right now. They need help.
All right, Kaitlan in Erie, Pennsylvania for us, so we'll get back to you.
Let's get some more on the breaking pandemic news. Our National Correspondent Erica Hill is working on the story for us from New York today.
Erica, the country appears to be in the grip of this dreaded second wave of the virus.
ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it doesn't look good Wolf, to put it mildly. In fact, a number of states setting records all the wrong ones. Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, just a short time ago called the numbers in his state grim.
Hospitalizations there have just hit a rate, the highest rate since the pandemic began. He said everything is going in the wrong direction.
And as I mentioned, Wolf, Ohio is not the only state setting these kinds of records.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HILL (voice-over): The dreaded second wave now washing over the U.S.
GOV. J.B. PRITZKER, (D) ILLINOIS: Nearly every region in the state has seen an increase in COVID related hospitalizations over the last week.
HILL: Illinois among the 42 states reporting a rise in hospitalizations, 14 hitting new peaks.
It's not just hospital setting records. Nationwide, the virus is surging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we're all real nervous about what could be coming.
HILL: Thirty-one states reporting a rise in new cases over the past week, just one, Hawaii, seen a decline.
DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDRENS HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER DIRECTOR: Over the next five or six months, I think up through February or March of next year, we are heading into the worst part of this pandemic for this country.
HILL: New case numbers are typically lower on Mondays. This week, the U.S. added more than 58,000 topping a Monday record set three months ago.
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIR. UNIV. OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY: For the first time in many areas, we're seeing over half the cases having no recognized risk exposure, meaning they didn't know somebody that was infected. So it shows you how prevalent or how common this virus transmission is in our communities. HILL: That silence spread, fueling new concern and advice about the holidays.
DR. LEANA WEN, FORMER BALTIMORE HEALTH COMMISSIONER: It's unnatural for us to think all those people that we love and trust could also be carrying the virus. But this is a silent killer.
HILL: The head of the National Institutes of Health, the latest expert to announce his own family won't be gathering.
F. COLLINS: For the first time in 27 years, there will be no family Thanksgiving. It is just not safe to take that kind of chance.
HILL: But staying safe over the next several months can be lonely.
DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: There's going to be a huge impact on mental health. You're going to get sad, you're going to get scared, you're going to get depressed. This is a normal response to a very stressful situation.
HILL: Channeling that stress into exercise, meditation or virtual gatherings can help.
And there's some encouraging news. A new study finds ventilation including open windows, spacing, desk shields and hand washing, greatly reduce the spread in classrooms. Hopefully allowing more scenes like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning. How are you?
HILL: A bright spot amid an uncertain future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: And, Wolf, just some more information on how the American public is viewing this. There were a lot of questions about what would happen after the President's diagnosis of COVID-19.
Well, a new poll out from Axios-Ipsos finds that in the wake of the President's COVID-19 diagnosis, 37 percent of respondents said they're actually less likely to trust the President when it comes to the virus, 60 percent said more likely, 46 percent remain unchanged. So overall, Wolf, not much of a boost for the President.
BLITZER: Yes. All right, Erica, thank you very much. Erica Hill in New York.
Let's get some more on all of this. Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us.
Sanjay, the former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb is warning that the United States in his words only a week away from a rapid acceleration or rapid acceleration of the virus. How does the situation now here in the U.S. compare, for example, in the situation in Europe right now? What are the signs for the next few weeks? DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a model worth looking at, Wolf.
[17:10:01]
You remember going back to April we can show the trend lines between what was happening in the United States and the European Union. Remember the beginning there -- and if you can tell the beginning there at the end of March, the yellow line just a little bit in front of the orange line. We are watching Italy at that point, you may remember, and we were still -- the numbers are still low in the United States. But the worry was that we would start to trend as we were seeing in Europe, and we certainly did.
The E.U. was able to bring their numbers down for a period of time. And then now in the -- that's significant second wave.
But again, now look at the right side of the graph, Wolf, the yellow line again, just above the orange line a little bit earlier. We're heading in the same direction, Wolf. That's where, I think, Dr. Gottlieb is -- that's what he's referring to. A lot of people have sort of said this.
See what's happening the E.U., look how long predates what's happening here. And you can anticipate that same sort of pattern here. Because, you know, many of the same things are happening here in terms of those case rates.
Quickly, Wolf, I'll just point out as well, it's one thing the numbers of newly infected people, but it's obviously the hospitalizations and deaths that are so tragic, hospitalizations are a truer measure in some way of the impact of this. And we know in many states around the country, hospitalizations are at the highest that they've been throughout this pandemic.
And we know going into flu season, going into cooler season, it's going to get a little worse, Wolf.
BLITZER: It may not just be a little worse, it may be a whole lot worse. We hope not. But it's --
GUPTA: Yes.
BLITZER: -- the fear is there. As you heard in the report that Erica reported, NIH Director Francis Collins is saying he won't be getting together with his own family for Thanksgiving this year. It's the first time they won't be together in 27 years. For most Americans will gatherings for the holidays, be simply too dangerous this year?
GUPTA: I think so sadly, Wolf. I think that is the case. I mean, we've gone through the same decision through with our own family. My parents living in Florida, they very much wanted to see us and the grandkids, but this year is going to be a wash on that sort of stuff.
I think next year, we'll look forward to celebrating in earnest but it's just too tough. I mean, we'll be inside. My parents are vulnerable by given their age. So, you know, it'd be hard.
Plus, it's family. And you know, what, are you going to maintain the physical distance with family? How do you do that?
As Michael Osterholm said, one way to think about it is that, you know, you're going to be sharing air, right? And when you're sharing air in an indoor location, it's hard to be outside because of the weather, you're more likely to possibly transmit the virus.
So, we're not doing it. I think, you know, the best guidance would be this year to probably, you know, not do this and wait till next year when we are in better position.
BLITZER: Yes. So, so sad.
Dr. Fauci is also saying that the U.S. doesn't necessarily need to lock down again even though these new trends are so concerning.
If we're not heading for a lockdown, what should we be doing to get through these next few weeks and months?
GUPTA: You know, Wolf, this has been one of the most befuddling things. I mean, there are simple public health measures, the same people who say, you know, we absolutely cannot lock down. Many of them are people who say we will also not follow the basic public health measures.
Let me give you the example of Scottsdale Arizona, because people always say, show me how this could actually work. We can show Scottsdale. We know when Scottsdale came out of stay at home orders, there was a significant increase in the overall number of infection, 151 percent increase after stay at home orders were lifted. We're talking between June 1 and June 15. That was a significant surge.
But Wolf, it's that second line, 75 percent drop following these basic prevention efforts. And this was over about a month, three weeks or so. Masks, limiting public events. And certain business closures, specifically ones where you get a lot of people clustering indoors, like bars, because, you know, you're drinking, you can't wear a mask indoors in a situation like that. But Wolf, 75 percent decrease in overall COVID-19 cases with those measures. That's huge.
I mean, that's not a vaccine, that's no therapeutic. That is the same stuff we've been talking about for, you know, seven, eight months now. And I'm going to keep giving you these examples of things that work because hopefully it inspires people to actually make a difference here.
BLITZER: Yes, wearing a mask, social distancing, easy steps to do and will save thousands, thousands of lives in the coming weeks and months.
Sanjay, thank you very much.
Up next the path to 270. We'll take a closer look at where President Trump and Joe Biden stand in their battle to win enough electoral college votes to claim victory in two weeks.
Plus, the new rule that will make this week's presidential debate, two days from now, very different from the last.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:19:10]
BLITZER: With the presidential election exactly two weeks away and the final debate just two nights away, more than 32 million early ballots have already been cast, as President Trump and Joe Biden battle for the 270 electoral college votes needed to win the presidency.
Let's dig deeper with our Political Director David Chalian. So David, where does the state by state race stand right now?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: The all-important battle for 270 electoral votes, this is our current outlook of the Electoral College map, Wolf.
Now, this is not a prediction of what it'll look like two weeks from now. This is just sort of a snapshot of where the race stands at the moment. Advantage Joe Biden, we have him at 290 votes that states that are either solidly or leaning in his direction. He's obviously over that threshold of 270. And President Trump down at 163.
But I want to show you, Wolf, just how little Joe Biden needs to do in terms of converting states that Hillary Clinton lost to actually win this race. He doesn't even -- he has a nice cushion already. He doesn't need all of this.
[17:20:10]
Take a look. Let me give Arizona, right now leaning in Joe Biden's direction to Donald Trump. He had two rallies there yesterday.
I'm going to give him Arizona for the purpose of this exercise. I'll even give President Trump right now a state he's behind in the polls, Wisconsin, but one of those surprise states that he won last time around.
And now I'm going to give the President, Wolf, every battleground toss upstate, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Ohio, and Iowa. I've given him all the toss up states and some of those blue leaning states in Wisconsin and Arizona. Now, Joe Biden, all he needs is to win this congressional district up in Maine, the second congressional district, they award their electoral college votes by district, boom.
So just look at that map. Joe Biden only has to flip Pennsylvania, Michigan, and the Nebraska and Maine electoral votes. And he's a 270. He's president. It's not a heavy lift from his substantial area of strength in the map right now.
BLITZER: And we only have two weeks to go. Two weeks, though, could be a long time.
David, are there any places where President Trump is on offense trying to take a 2016 Clinton state away from Biden?
CHALIAN: There are. You see and this is what you should watch on election night to see if he's have any success. Right now, he's behind in those states. And it is mostly defense, I just showed you, it's mostly defense.
But yes, take a look at Nevada right now leaning Joe Biden's direction. Let's give that to Donald Trump. Sorry, I'm assigning a Democrat. Let's give that to Donald Trump in Nevada, OK.
He's also playing in Arizona. That was a state he won. So let's assume he's able to pull that back in this quarter.
Minnesota is a place he's playing offense that Clinton won in 2016 and New Hampshire. So I've just given him New Hampshire, Minnesota, Nevada. He's behind in those states right now. Hillary Clinton won them. And I have Arizona coming to his back into his fold.
Look at how much work he still has to do. He's at 194. So again, he would have to run the table, basically, to get over to 270 at that point.
So yes, he's playing offense in some places, but he's not close in those places right now, Wolf. It's very much a defensive map for Donald Trump.
BLITZER: Certainly is. All right, thanks very much, David Chalian.
Let's get some more on this. Our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger is with us. And our CNN Political Commentator Bakari Sellers is with us. He's the author, by the way of the new book, "My Vanishing Country." There you see it.
You know, Gloria, the President is heading to the battleground state of Pennsylvania, he's going to be speaking at a rally later tonight.
He narrowly won that state in 2016. But now, that's where he trails Joe Biden the most. So, what does that say about his path? The President's path to 270?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, as David was just saying, it's you know, he's playing defense right now. He's down nine points in Pennsylvania.
And, you know, the, the easiest path for him would be to say, well, nothing is easy, as David points out. But what if he were to keep those blue states that he won, that he took away from Hillary Clinton last time around? Well, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, those were the three states that were real surprises in the last election. And he's trailing in all of those states substantially.
And so, this is a very difficult for him. This is not saying that it is impossible, it is not impossible for him. But Joe Biden has so many more paths to victory than Donald Trump does right now, which is why he's in the state of Pennsylvania two weeks before the election, trying to flip a state back to his column in which he now trails substantially.
BLITZER: Yes, he does.
You know, Bakari thanks to this U.S. Supreme Court ruling this week, Pennsylvania will count mail in ballots received up to three days after Election Day. Big picture.
We know Democrats prefer to vote by mail Republicans prefer to vote in person. So how will this influence the results that we will start to see on election night?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, what if it turns it from Election Day to election week or weeks. I think though, however, to both David and Gloria's point here, you know, Joe Biden has many ways to the White House.
The fundamentals of this race, though, are drastically different than 2016. And I have to say that for my Democrats who are proverbial breadwinners, all my friends on the left we had this case I.D. (ph) from 2016. The fundamentals are so different.
There's no credible third party who left leaning voters can vote for like Jill Stein. We pray that there's no Comey (ph) type incident 11 days before an election which changes the trajectory of a race. So things are vastly different.
[17:25:01]
But Wolf, I can tell you this directly that we are all watching two states with Pennsylvania now being able to count ballots on three days after the race. Democrats are watching Florida and Ohio and a little bit of North Carolina.
The reason being is because of Joe Biden is able to pull off Florida, Ohio or North Carolina, this races effectively over. All you have to do is go back to David Chalian's map. If Donald Trump does not win all three of those states, if he does not sweep all of those states that count their ballots on election night, he has no path to the White House.
BLITZER: Yes. If he loses Florida, his path to the White House is really, really going to be limited.
You know, Gloria, you write at an excellent new column on cnn.com that the Trump reset, as it's called, will never really come about. Does that apply to Thursday's second and final presidential debate, 48 hours from now?
BORGER: Sure.
You can go through training with him all over again. I don't know how much he's going to do. I don't know how much debate prep he's got left in him and say stop interrupting and the mics are going to shut off and behave a little differently. And Donald Trump is still going to do what Donald Trump is going to do. There is no resetting Donald Trump. We have learned that over the past four years. And I was talking to one of his biographers today who said to me, look, resetting him is like -- he looks at it like the death penalty. Because if he resets, that means that he's done something wrong. And he can never admit that he has done anything wrong in the past, because then he cannot be the best at everything, which is what he thinks he is.
And he believes as he told us that he had a fabulous debate, that he defeated him in the debate, and that Joe Biden should be afraid of him in this next debate. So they can prep him all they want. But what you're going to get is Donald Trump.
BLITZER: You think the Biden folks, that the vice president, former vice president, Bakari, is ready for what the President is about to unleashed in that debate going after Hunter Biden probably repeatedly?
SELLERS: Yes. I mean, he's going to go extremely low. I just don't know if Joe Biden knows what to expect.
I mean, Donald Trump, if his mic is muted, can literally walk across stage and try to take some time from Joe Biden's microphone. Nobody knows what's going to happen in this election or, excuse me, or in this debate. But Joe Biden's going to be prepared.
Donald Trump has everything to gain out of this. I mean, he's the one who needs it. Joe Biden doesn't need it. And I don't think this is going to have any effect on November 3.
BLITZER: Well, watch it together with all of you. Bakari, thank you. Gloria, thanks to you as well.
There's more breaking news. We're following talks on a new economic stimulus package are going down to the wire right now. We're just getting new information from some of the key players. I'll talk about that and more with Congressman Ro Khanna. There you see him. He's standing by up on Capitol Hill.
We've got lots to discuss, lots at steak right now. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:32:52]
BLITZER: We're following breaking news. In the last-minute push for a new economic stimulus package, according to multiple sources who were in the room during today's Senate Republican lunch, the Leader Mitch McConnell suggested there's little appetite for a deal before the election in two weeks. Joining us now to discuss, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. Congressman, thank you so much for joining us.
The Majority Leader Mitch McConnell throwing cold water on a deal pointing to what he called logistical hurdles with so little time to go before Election Day. So, where does this leave the Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the House Democrats right now who are trying to come up with a deal with the White House, with the Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, Mitch McConnell has made it clear to the American people where the obstacle is. He doesn't want this to come for a vote. He's saying he doesn't have the votes to clear a filibuster. As Speaker Pelosi and Mnuchin are coming closer and closer to a deal. The real obstacle in question is, is McConnell going to continue to have a rift with Trump or is he going to put this for a vote so that the American people can get relief?
BLITZER: You heard the President, he was doing an interview on Fox this morning in which he said, if there's a deal between the House Democrats and the White House, Steve Mnuchin, for example, Mark Meadows, the White House Chief of Staff, the President will support it, and then he'll make sure that the Senate Republicans support it as well. Do you buy that?
KHANNA: Well, I'm dubious, because why can't you just call McConnell and tell him that McConnell will be able to deliver the votes? I mean, if he really was that confident, he wouldn't let McConnell put his entire presidency at risk. The negotiations between the Speaker and Mnuchin are going well, they've narrowed their differences. Mnuchin has made key concessions to the Speaker on national testing. He's made key concessions on state and local aid.
I believe the Speaker will get a deal. The whole thing is in McConnell's hands, and it's shocking to me after Trump has done every single thing McConnell wants with judges, he can't get McConnell to do something that his presidency rides on and that the country needs.
BLITZER: Yes, the President insists he'll get it done. We shall see. The House Speaker seems rather upbeat right now, she says the White House, in her words, has come a long way with more scientific language in this deal on fighting the coronavirus.
[17:35:06]
You previously urged her to accept the White House offer of $1.8 trillion, a lot of money for the needy people out there. But was she right to hold out as she has?
KHANNA: She has gotten a better deal. I have urged her to make a deal, but I think she deserves tremendous credit. The deal is much better than it was a week ago. She has gotten more aid for children. She has gotten more language on testing. She's going to get more aid for state and local government. I think she has shown her formidable skills as a negotiator. Why she's leader of the caucus.
Our caucus is united behind her. The disarray is with the Senate Republicans in the White House.
BLITZER: Bottom line right now, how important is it? If there's no deal between now and November 3rd, two weeks from today, could there be a deal during the lame-duck session, irrespective of whoever wins the presidency? Or is it going to have to wait until February or March, a new house and a new Senate? Because the stakes for so many millions of Americans out there, as you and I know, are enormous?
KHANNA: Wolf, the stakes are incredible. I mean, this is not a political game. People are losing their houses, they are running out of their 401(k)s, they can't put food on the table. I believe we have to do something to get a deal every single day before the election ideally, if not the first day after lame-duck. Every day, it's our moral obligation to make this the highest priority.
So, I will continue to work on that. And I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic, and McConnell says, yes, we will get this deal done before the election.
BLITZER: Yes, a lot will depend on how much the President is ready to squeeze. Not only Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader but other Republicans. You're going to need 60 votes to break a filibuster in the Senate, 47 Democrats presumably if the House passes, this would go along but then you're going to need 13 Republicans. I suspect there will be 13 Republicans, it could be very, very significant.
Congressman Ro Khanna of California, we shall see as you and I know, the stakes really are enormous. Thanks so much for joining us.
KHANNA: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Coming up, Florida's Governor accused of pursuing what's called a herd immunity strategy to fight the pandemic. I'll talk about that and more with the Mayor of Miami Beach, Dan Gelber, he standing by live. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:41:49]
BLITZER: Florida's Governor is facing lots of criticism for his controversial handling of the coronavirus pandemic in his state. The Miami Beach Mayor Dan Gelber is joining us right now. Mayor Gelber, thank you so much for joining us. And you've actually accused the Governor Ron DeSantis of pursuing a so-called herd immunity strategy.
In other words, letting the virus spread through the community while trying to protect the more vulnerable people in the community like seniors. Explain why you made that accusation and why you think that would be such a potentially dangerous policy?
MAYOR DAN GELBER (D), MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: Well, first of all, it's really not an accusation. The Governor late last month held a press conference for two hours. And the two -- among the two guests or three guests were the authors of what's called the Great Barrington Declaration, which is the statement of really a group of people that I think are pursuing a fringe theory that the best way to deal with this virus is to allow it to spread throughout the community at least allow it to spread through most of the community while protecting those who were at highest risk.
That's who he had in the next day. He totally opened up everything and he even went so far as to prevent local governments like mine from implementing and enforcing our mask requirements on individuals. And we, of course, have given 1,000 people mask citations. We can't do that anymore. So he opened up absolutely everything, reduced social distancing requirements and didn't allow us to enforce mask mandates, which is exactly what the Great Barrington Declaration would say you should do and the experts he met would say, you should do.
BLITZER: These so-called experts, I should say. Dr. Fauci has strongly warned against pursuing this so-called herd immunity strategy, but we do know that Dr. Scott Atlas, who the President is brought into the Coronavirus Task Force, if it still exists, has advocated for that policy. Does Dr. Atlas have the ear of Governor DeSantis based on everything you know?
GELBER: Of course, he does. He was here talking about this very point with our Governor. Dr. Fauci has not been down here talking with our Governor. Dr. Atlas has, the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration have. And, of course, Dr. Fauci talked about this approach from the -- from really these outliers and said that it's really going to cause incredible harm, because the idea that you can allow it to spread throughout the community to give everybody, you know, immunity except for the most vulnerable is absurd, because you can't protect the most vulnerable.
There are over a third of our society. There are seniors, there people with asthma, diabetes, people who are overweight, and you can't protect them. So the result is going to be, as Dr. Fauci and all the mainstream scientists and doctors have said, is really incredible danger to these vulnerable communities. And that just makes no sense, but it's what we're not doing in Florida.
BLITZER; How devastating could a herd immunity strategy specifically be for the senior citizens in Miami Beach, indeed across Florida, because you have a very, very large elderly retired population down there?
GELBER: Well, we asked -- I asked some of our own doctors and scientists who we meet with every week, what it would do in our county.
[17:45:05]
And Dade County has had a lot of the virus with the second leading county of the 3,000 counties in the country, with infections. We've had 3,500 deaths and obviously many more thousands hospitalized. They believe that a, conservatively, it would add at least 14,000 or 15,000 more deaths, which would mean, by the way, that it would become the leading cause of death in our county, more than every other cause of death, potentially combined. More than, you know, heart disease, cancer, pneumonia, gunshots, homicides, everything combined. And that's startling.
So this is a very dangerous path. And I worry very much that this -- that our state in our county is a tinder, and that the Governor is lighting it. I hope we can stop that but we shouldn't have to protect ourselves from our own government. BLITZER: If the situation, God forbid, worsens dramatically down there where you are, are you hopeful the Governor will change his mind and allow you to impose some new restrictions like mandating masks?
GELBER: You know, I -- look, I've asked him to reconsider this approach, especially since at the beginning, he was letting local government deliver the really difficult medicine of these kinds of restrictions. But I -- but I'm not sure he can be convinced.
It's possible this is an election eve strategy, because the White House has embraced the same kind of approach. And it may just be trying to get people happy with the White House so that, you know, they'll think that this is the end of the virus which, of course, it's not.
So maybe after the Election Day, he'll reconsider. I hope we don't have a spike.
BLITZER: Yes.
GELBER: We got an uptick, but I hope we don't have a spike because, you know, nobody can tolerate that again.
BLITZER: I hope you don't have a spike too. Mayor Gelber, thank you so much for joining us.
GELBER: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, coming up, the British are about to try a very risky experiment. Volunteers will knowingly be infected with the coronavirus to test an experimental vaccine.
And later, new drama over at the White House as President Trump abruptly ends an interview for CBS's 60 Minutes. We'll tell you what happened.
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[17:52:41]
BLITZER: In global coronavirus headlines, China now says nearly 60,000 people have been injected with trial vaccines and claims there have been no serious adverse reactions. Let's go to CNN's David Culver. David, what are you seeing?
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we're in the Yiwu city, which is about four-hour drive outside of Shanghai. The reason we're here is because this is one of the first places where China is releasing the COVID-19 vaccine, one of many that they have in phase three trials. And you can see folks are gathering around this community hospital. A lot of them are going through that one entrance, getting their temperature checked, and then trying to inquire a bit more as to how they can be part of this.
We learned over the weekend they had several people receive the vaccine, however, one hospital worker telling us today they have just run out. Folks here standing by for when new supplies come in. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, David Culver, reporting for us, thank you.
In a risky move, volunteers in Britain are going to be exposed to the live coronavirus to test for a possible vaccine. CNN's Phil Black is in London for us. Phil, tell us more.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's a controversial idea. The British government has announced it wants to pay for volunteers to be exposed to the coronavirus. This London hospital will host human challenge trials where young healthy people will receive a potential vaccine, then to test that vaccine, they will later be deliberately dosed with the virus. The government believes these trials could help efficiently identify the most promising vaccines under development around the world.
Critics say challenge trials are limited because the volunteers have to be young and healthy to minimize the risks and they don't best represent the people in the community who most desperately need an effective vaccine. But the trials will still be risky and ethically challenging because there is no guaranteed treatment for COVID-19. Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Phil Black reporting for us, thank you very much.
Meanwhile, Ireland just recorded its highest daily coronavirus death toll since May. And in a desperate effort to slow the virus, it's about to start a second lockdown. CNN's Nima Elbagir is monitoring the situation for us from London. Nima, what's the latest?
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, in a move that the Irish Prime Minister Micheal Martin said he recognized it would bring disappointment and despair.
[17:55:00]
Ireland is set to return to the highest tier of coronavirus restrictions, tier 5. From midnight on Wednesday, Ireland will become the first European country to return for a second time to lockdown. They're shutting down most of the economy, all non-essential retail. They're banning travel of beyond a 5-kilometer limit. And they're banning gatherings of two households indoors.
It was a move that was first called for by the country's Chief Medical Officer two weeks ago. But Martin at the time said it would have an unacceptable impact on the economy, while it seems that the unacceptable is the only way forward. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Nima, thank you very much.
Coming up, just two weeks before the election, President Trump walked out of an interview with 60 Minutes and skips a joint taping with the Vice President Mike Pence. We're getting new information, standby.
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BLITZER: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. We're following the surging second wave of the coronavirus.
