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The Situation Room

Trump, Biden Storm Campaign Trail As Pandemic Grows Worse; "Washington Post" Reports, Trump Privately Said To Donors It Will Be Tough For Republicans To Keep Senate; Inside A Dune Buggy Rally With Wealthy Trump Supporters; Polls Show A Tight Race In Battleground Ohio; Keeping Russia Honest On Vaccine Development. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 24, 2020 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

There are only ten days left for President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden to make their case to the American people. And part of that case is how they will end the national nightmare, the coronavirus pandemic. Both were out there on the campaign trail today. But while Biden is pitching his plan, the president is still insisting the virus will go away and that this is more about the news media than the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I told you, you turn on television, like COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, a plane goes down, 500 people dead, they don't talk about it. COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID.

By the way, on November 4th, you won't hear about it anymore. So COVID, COVID, please don't go and vote, COVID.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Of course, the inconvenient truth is the virus is not going away. In fact, the pandemic is getting worse here in the United States. The Johns Hopkins University reported 83,757 new cases of the coronavirus in the U.S. just yesterday. This is the highest number of new confirmed cases reported in a single day since the pandemic began early this year. 943 Americans, by the way, died on Friday from COVID- 19.

All the rallies in the world will not make this pandemic go away. And some of them actually, given what's going on at these rallies, could make it a whole lot worse. President Trump is moments away from taking the stage in Waukesha, Wisconsin, a state the president nearly one last time around.

Jeremy Diamond is on the scene for us. Jeremy, Wisconsin, is certainly feeling the wrath of the new coronavirus surge. What's the latest?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is, Wolf. I mean, listen, yesterday we saw across the United States a record number of new cases. That was also reflected here in Wisconsin which saw a record number of new cases in a single day, just yesterday, with up more than 4,500 cases. This is a state that's averaging nearly 4,000 cases a day.

Hospitalizations are also on the rise, Wolf. If you look right now, about 1,200 people in Wisconsin are currently hospitalized with coronavirus. About a month ago, that number was only at about 300, Wolf. So, really, an exponential rise in coronavirus cases.

And yet despite that, the president is holding another rally in the state. We were here last week when he had a rally, and now, again, the president rallying, thousands of people who are here.

There are slightly more people who are wearing masks than what we've seen a previously but still a majority of the people are not wearing masks. And that is because the president of the United States continues to downplay the importance of mask wearing, he continues to downplay the pandemic and lie about the surge in cases we're seeing.

Listen to the president earlier today when he talks about on how he compares the coronavirus crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And you know what, on November 4th, you're not going to hear the news. CNN, all they talk about, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID. If a plane goes down, with 500 people, they don't talk about it. All they talk because they're trying to scare everybody. You have to live your life and you have to get out, you have to be vigilant, be careful, socially distance. Yes, get too close, put the mask on. Put it on. You had lots of different things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And, Wolf, when you hear the president compare the coronavirus crisis to a plane crash with 500 people dying, not only would we obviously cover a plane crash with 500 people dying but right now, we're in a situation where nearly two 500-person planes are crashing every single day in the United States. In fact if you use the president's metrics, 500 people in a plane crash, we have lost 449 planes since the beginning of this coronavirus crisis here in the United States.

And yet despite that, Wolf, you hear the president continue to downplay this pandemic, including right here in the state of Wisconsin, which as we said, is experiencing a surge in cases and is, of course, also a crucial battle ground state. The president won this state by fewer than 23,000 votes in 2016 and obviously he's looking to capture the state once again as part of his path to 270 Electoral College votes. Wolf?

[20:05:00] BLITZER: Yes. And the president says the news media is not talking about deaths. Sadly, we are talking about deaths. There have been so many deaths, right now, more than 224,000 Americans have lost their lives over this past several months. Jeremy Diamond in Waukesha, Wisconsin for us, thank you.

The former president, Barack Obama, stumping for Joe Biden in a truly critical battleground state of Florida today, taking direct aim at President Trump during a drive-in campaign rally.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is following the Biden campaign for us. She is in North Miami.

Arlette, to put it simply, President Obama did not mince any words at all. So what did we hear today from the former president of the U.S. with just ten days to go?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, President Obama laid it all out on the line here in Florida telling voters here that they helped deliver Florida for him twice in 2008 and 2012 and asking them to do the same Joe Biden in November. The former president also saying that if Biden wins Florida, the election is essentially over.

And while the former president vouched for his former vice president, he also took aim at President Trump, criticizing his handling of the coronavirus pandemic and also slamming the president's behavior, saying that it's not normal for a president to behave that way in office.

And President Obama also took aim at President Trump over that 60 Minutes interview he taped earlier this week. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: He was asked, what's your priority in your second term? And let me say, I've run for president, Miami, so I just want you to know, it's a good idea to have an answer to this question. It's a good idea if you're running for re-election to say, here is what I want to accomplish. What did Trump say? He got mad and walked out of the interview. He thought the questions were too tough, too tough.

Miami, listen. If he can't answer a tough question like what would you like to do in your second term, then it's our job to make sure he doesn't get a second term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And President Obama was also trying to appeal to Hispanic voters in the Miami area, pushing back on President Trump and Republicans' attempts to paint Joe Biden as a socialist. The former president called that garbage and said that Biden is not a secret socialist at all.

And one of the really key messages that you heard from Obama here today in Florida, is urging their supporters to get out and make plans to vote early. More than five million votes have been cast here in the state of Florida alone so far with just ten days to go until the election.

And the Biden campaign really starting to turn to that phase of focusing on turnouts in these critical battleground states. The Biden campaign feels like President Obama can help with some key constituencies, like African-American voters, Latinos and young voters with just ten days to go. Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes, he certainly can, he's still got it. And I think he's right. If President Trump doesn't carry Florida, it's almost certainly going to be the end of his presidency. He's not going to get re- elected, Florida, Florida, Florida, so important.

Arlette Saenz, reporting for us. Thank you.

Joining us now, CNN Contributor Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, an Epidemiologist and former Detroit Health Commissioner, also with us CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Seema Yasmin, a former Disease Detective with the CDC.

As much as the president wants to focus on his re-election bid, he simply can't escape the fact that it's all playing out against the backdrop of a very, very deadly pandemic, a pandemic that's only getting worse here in the United States, well over 83,000 new confirmed cases just reported yesterday by the Johns Hopkins University as the highest number here in this country since the pandemic began.

I want both of you to take a look at this moment from a press conference with the Illinois director of public health. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. NGOZI EZIKE, DIRECTOR, ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Since yesterday, we lost an additional 31 lives for a total of 9,418 deaths. These are people who started with us in 2020 and won't be with us at the Thanksgiving table.

To date we are reporting, 3,874 new cases for a total of 364,033 confirmed cases since the start of this pandemic. Excuse me, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Dr. Ngozi Ezike, getting very, very emotional, totally understandable. Dr. El-Sayed, you were Detroit's health commissioner. When you see that, when you hear the pain in her voice, what's your reaction?

DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Public health professionals have been working around the clock to try and lasso this pandemic down, and all they're seeing is a spike right now as we head into the winter months.

[20:10:05]

That is so disheartening. And anytime somebody in your community suffers, you feel it.

Now, when you're quoting numbers in the thousands and tens of thousands, you're going to feel it harder. And it's just a stark contrast to what we're seeing out of this president who thinks that somehow cable news coverage of the equivalent of 449 jumbo jet crashes in the context of this pandemic somehow is overblown.

That contrast really should teach you something and tell you something about the failure of simple humanity and empathy at the top. And, you know, that has left state health commissioner and local city health commissioners trying to shuffle to make up for the failed federal leadership.

And so I feel deeply for her. I understand exactly where she's coming from and I think Americans do too.

BLITZER: Dr. Yasmin, let's listen to a little bit more from that press conference. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EZIKE: And I'm desperate to find a message that will work. I'm looking for someone to tell me what the message is so that we can do what it takes to turn this around. The virus has caused this. And instead pitting one group against another, we need to get that and fight against the virus. And we can't do that.

We have some tools to do that. We don't have a cure yet. We don't have a vaccine yet but we have a mask and we're asking people to use that. And I don't know what else we can say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Dr. Yasmin, so what's the bottom line here? What will finally make people across the country realize how serious all this is? Clearly, that message will not be coming from the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Clearly, it won't, Wolf. In fact, what we've gotten from him is so much misinformation and disinformation. I really hope that the emotion in her words and the humanity in her message is what resonates with people, because that's a public health leader that we can trust. She's talking about, in very real terms, we don't have a cure. That's honest. But we do have things that work, things as simple as a mask.

And, Wolf, you and I have talked over the last seven months, so many times about the University of Washington studies that show that if 90 to 95 percent of Americans were to do that simple thing of wearing a mask and wearing it diligently, we'd save tens of thousands of lives.

And that's what's at stake here. We're approaching a death toll in America of a quarter of a million people that we've lost to this virus. There are projections that show a terrible scenario that by the end of February next year, we could have lost half a million Americans to this pandemic, more than the death toll from the second world war.

It comes down to something quite simple, physical distancing, hand hygiene, mask wearing, which I'm sure people are tired of hearing about at this point, but it really is what can protect us while we don't have a cure, we don't have a vaccine. And, unfortunately, we have some public officials who are peddling misinformation.

BLITZER: Yes. Well, you're so right.

You know, and Dr. El-Sayed, 34 states are reporting a rise in their confirmed case counts just yesterday, as we've been reporting more than 83,000 new confirmed cases across the United States, the highest number yet since the beginning of the pandemic. Dr. El-Sayed, what would you say to someone watching right now in one of those states where cases are spiking, what should they be doing to stay safe, to keep their loved ones safe, to keep their friends safe right now?

EL-SAYED: This is a scary time. But, fortunately, there are things we can do, right? This is a function of the choices that we make. Number one, we've got -- as the Dr. Yasmin said, we've got to be wearing our masks, the most important public health intervention any of us can do.

And I get it, masks are so annoying. But, you know, after a certain point on the day you get tired, you got sweat in your face. But if it means protecting your love ones, if it means protecting yourself, it means protecting your community and taking this on, then I think it's worth it.

The second point I'll make is just that, look, I know that right now we're headed into the holidays. And there are a lot of things that folks who want to do together, but if you can do it outside, even if it's a little bit cold. And if you can, make sure that, you know, there's fewer people there and you're socially distanced and maybe this time it's worth not going.

And the last thing I'll say is this. We've got a choice about what kind of future we want. We've got a choice about what the next couple of months would look like. I live in a one of those states where the numbers are setting record, but we've got a choice. And so, I'm asking everybody to do what they can to protect themselves, their love ones, their family members and the people in their community.

We can do this. We are Americans. When we come together there's nothing that we can't take on. This is a choice that we have to make. And I believe deeply that we can make it and make the right decision.

BLITZER: Yes. And Dr. Fauci and Dr. Francis Collins, the head of NIH, both say this week they're, sadly, not going to be spending time with Thanksgiving dinner with their family out of concern. You got to be safe. You got to be very, very careful. Right now, so many other families across the country are going to, unfortunately, sadly, avoid these traditional Thanksgiving dinners at the end of November.

[20:15:03]

Dr. Yasmin, Dr. El-Sayed, thanks to both. Thanks to both of you for what you are doing as well. We really appreciate it.

EL-SAYED: Thank you Wolf.

BLITZER: A new report tonight suggests the president is ditching some Republican senators fighting for re-election. His bleak assessment of the GOP's prospect for keeping the majority in the U.S. Senate, that's next.

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BLITZER: Tonight, with only ten days left in the election, a new report suggest that President Trump is actually ditching some of his fellow Republicans in the Senate. The Washington Post is reporting that the president is offering a bleak assessment of the GOP's ability to keep its majority in Senate.

Here is The Post quoting the president. Let me read from the article. We'll put it up on the screen. I think the Senate is tough actually. The Senate is very tough, the president said at a fundraiser Thursday at the Nashville Marriott. According to an attendee there are a couple of senators that can't really get involved in.

[20:20:01]

I just can't do it. You lose your soul if you do. I can't help some of them. I don't want to help some of them, close quote.

Joining us now, CNN Senior Political Commentator, David Axelrod, host of The Axe Files podcast, former Senior Adviser to former President Barack Obama. David, thanks for joining us.

Do you think the president is looking solely at political math or is this about loyalty to him?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think everything is always about loyalty to him, so I think that's certainly an element of it, because you see several senators have been distancing themselves from him.

Susan Collins, obviously, in Maine who refused to endorse him. Martha McSally refused to answer a question as to whether she was proud of her support for him. And even John Cornyn, who is part of the leadership in the Senate and has a closer than expected race in Texas, has now begun criticize the president's handling of the coronavirus (INAUDIBLE), we know that from Nebraska. And that disturbs the president. There's no doubt about it.

And so it's a little bit of a case of you are breaking up with me, no, I'm breaking up with you. So I think there's an element of that.

But I also think that there is another reason for it, which is that if the president's sending a signal to these donors with whom he spoke that don't expect to have a Senate as a hedge against Biden. If what you're thinking is that if Biden gets elected, it's not a tragedy because you've got a Republican Senate, you're not going to have a Republican Senate. So you better make sure that I get re-elected. So I think it's both strategic and the president's own pension for pushing back against people who distance himself from him.

BLITZER: Very interesting indeed. As you know, David, Senate Republicans will likely confirm the president's third U.S. Supreme Court pick on Monday. But there's no deal on an economic stimulus package for so many suffering Americans and there likely won't be before the election. Do you believe that's adding to the president's pessimism about control of the Senate?

AXELROD: Well, I don't know but I'm sure he is irritated with the Senate. Because Republican senators have indicated that they do not want to vote on a stimulus before the election. This has been the position of Senator McConnell.

And even though the president likes to blame Nancy Pelosi for the stalled state of negotiations, it has been the Republicans in the Senate who have be balking at any kind of large stimulus. And I'm sure he's frustrated about it because it probably would help the president if he signed a stimulus package before the election and the Senate is standing in his way.

BLITZER: Joe Biden spent at least part of the day campaigning in Pennsylvania, a state that the president won back in 2016. But Biden is up right now seven points in the CNN poll of polls. There you see the numbers. 51-44.

Is it smart for him to spend precious campaign time there when this so many other battle ground states in play right now? And how much reliability are those polls showing given the example of what occurred four years ago?

AXELROD: Yes, yes. Well, look, I think that the three states that are most critical to him here are Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Those are the states that really delivered the presidency to Donald Trump by very narrow margins four years ago. They're states of particular strength for Biden. He is a native of Pennsylvania. He has always done well in these northern industrial states. And so I think it's smart to buckle down there.

One of the mistakes Hillary Clinton made in 2016 was not to campaign in some of these states, Wisconsin, most notably, and so I don't think Biden wants to make the same mistakes. But he is using his surrogates in a very strategic way. President Obama was down in Florida today. Florida is so important to Biden, because he can make it at a very short election night if he can carry Florida.

And Florida is a state where all the ballots, Wolf, will be counted on election night. They count their absentee ballots in real-time, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. And we're not sure we're going to get a verdict from them for several days. So Florida is important, and Barack Obama's important to him in Florida where minority voters may make the difference, particularly in that Miami-Dade area where President Obama was campaigning today.

So it seems to me the Biden campaign are being very strategic about how their dividing up their big guns here.

BLITZER: And you agree, very quickly, that if President Trump loses Florida, it's over for him, right?

AXELROD: Over. No Republican has won in 96 years without carrying the state of Florida.

BLITZER: Yes. He desperately needs Florida. All right, David Axelrod, thank you very, very much.

You've seen the Trump boat parades, you've seen the caravans.

[20:25:01]

Up next, CNN takes you inside one of these unofficial Trump events. We're going to find out who takes part and where their passionate support for the president actually comes from. You'll want to see these, stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: You might have seen them where you live, the boat parades, the car caravans and even the - buggy rallies in support of President Trump.

So what's behind these very public and very passionate displays of support for the president? CNN's Elle Reeve took a ride with one group to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like alpha males.

[20:30:00]

I think President Trump is an Alpha male. Whenever I watch the news, it seems like they're bagging on Trump. They make it sound like nobody's going to vote for him. But we feel like we all need to get together just to show people that, hey, there are people that are going to vote for him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Dunes and Deplorables Let Freedom Ride Trump rally protests. It was unfurling a 30-foot by 50-foot American flag, having everybody gather around, play the national anthem, and just be able to be with a bunch of friends and families.

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Unofficial Trump events like this have been happening all over the country, boat parades, car caravans, bike parades, what attendees have in common is disposable income to spend on fun. While Trump's working-class supporters have gotten lots of attention, in 2016, a third of his voters made more than $100,000 a year. In fact, support for Trump is particularly strong among white voters who have high incomes for their area, the locally rich.

PAUL VELUSCEK, TRUMP SUPPORTER: The people on the left that really think we're deplorable, think we're deplorable. If hanging out with families, bringing your kids out and having a good time is deplorable, then I guess we'll take it.

REEVE: I went for a ride in the dunes with Eric Nelson, who's been riding motorcycles since he was 14. Eric drove two hours to come to the rally.

ERIC NELSON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Hopefully you heard her scream.

REEVE: Yes. That's what the mikes for.

NELSON: The reason we're here supporting Trump is because we believe that Trump will help us be able to keep the money that we make and let us be able to work as hard as we want and not give our money away.

People like Nancy Pelosi can, you know, get her funding through this given money to people that aren't willing to work for it. I worked for it all my life. I had to work to put myself through college, so I can get a job and do what I enjoy, which is an activity like this and spend, you know, 15, $20,000 on toys because I choose to.

VELUSCEK: He really is for your hard -working people. Do I think he's racist? No. I think he's racist against lazy people.

REEVE: The rally was mostly men. That's no surprise given national polls. Men are much more likely to support Trump than women. And what these men said they like about Trump was that he's a guy who's just like them.

NELSON: He's not a politician. He's one of us. Yeah, he's one of us on steroids because he runs a great big business and makes a lot more money than we do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can be crass, but we didn't hire him as a president. We hired him because he was a businessperson, and that's what America needed because our country was starting to tank.

REEVE: But then part of his job being like a moral leader?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe so.

REEVE: You don't think so?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. He says things that upsets people, and we just don't care. And we think he's helping all those people because they don't fully understand what's going on.

REEVE: Elle Reeve, CNN, Winchester Bay, Oregon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Elle Reeve, thank you very much for that report.

The president of the United States, he's been out there campaigning today, including in Ohio. It's really pivotal state that voted for him back in 2016 in the state no president since 1960 is won the White House without. But now, 10 days out, the polls show a rather close race. Our own John King, he's at the magic wall for an in depth look when we come back.

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[20:35:27]

BLITZER: Ohio is one of three states that President Trump actually campaigned in today holding another rally, few masks, no social distancing, even though Ohio just posted a record high of new coronavirus cases for the third straight day. With polls showing Ohio a toss-up right now, how will the race play out in the crew -- play out in the coming days?

CNN's John King is at the magic wall and he breaks it down for us.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: No Republican in modern times has won the White House without winning Ohio. So, it is absolutely essential to the President's comeback strategy. So, what can we learn from the 2016 map as we watch for the results to come in 2020? One of the most interesting things we saw very early, the polls close early here. In southern Ohio, these small counties, one of the first things we saw in 2016 was the source of President Trump's white working-class rural support.

Look at the margins he ran up in these little counties along the southern Ohio border, 70 percent here, 66 percent here, 76 percent there. That was the first sign that President Trump was overperforming. Even Mitt Romney running it up in Ohio, we'll watch for that in 2020. Is the Trump base solid or some of those white working-class voters defecting to Joe Biden?

Other big things to watch for Democrats the most important part turn voters out in the city is African-American turnout high in Cleveland. Can Joe Biden get a bigger margin in Cuyahoga County than Hillary Clinton did? Something else to watch, what about the suburbs? Donald Trump narrowly carried the suburbs back in 2016, including here, pretty big margin in Lake County. These are the suburbs just to the north east of Cleveland. Can Joe Biden turn this blue or at least make it more competitive if he wants to win in Ohio? Lake County outside of Cleveland, we'll tell you a lot about where the suburbs are in 2021.

One more big test I want to show you down here, Stark County. Former Vice President Biden went here after the first presidential debate. Why you might ask right look at the margins back in 2016. Why would Joe Biden go to a place Donald Trump won by such a lopsided margin? Well, this is one of the so-called pivot counties, Stark County. If you go back, here's the 2012 race. It was for Barack Obama. If you go back to 2008, it was for Barack Obama, pivot counties voted twice for Obama and then flipped to Donald Trump in 2016.

So, on election night, watch southern Ohio, watch Cleveland and the suburbs, watch Stark County. If it is red, maybe Trump has a comeback in Ohio. If it is blue, Joe Biden is on his way to the White House.

BLITZER: Ohio, Ohio, Ohio. John King, thank you very much.

For more on this and more, I'm joined by the former governor of Ohio John Kasich, a Republican who has endorsed Joe Biden. Governor, thanks so much for joining us. I want to talk about Ohio. in a second, but I want to play a little clip. The president, he just landed in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He's going to be giving a speech later tonight in Wisconsin and he was asked by a reporter, if he felt that the Republicans would able to -- would be able to hold the majority in the U.S. Senate. Listen to this.

[20:40:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are your -- do you think you'll hold the Senate in the election?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I hope to hold the Senate. We do. I think from a presidential standpoint, we're winning a lot of states, including this one. I think we're doing very well here. The crowd is certainly enthusiastic. I hope that we do. I think we're going to take back the House, because people are tired of Nancy Pelosi. I think we'll take back the House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Governor Kasich, what do you think?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR COMMENTATOR: First of all, there's no way, Wolf, that the Republicans are going to take back the House. Secondly, look, I'm doing this as just giving you my analysis, OK? This is not any I might have endorsed Biden, but that's not what I'm doing here tonight. He's also not going to win Wisconsin, he's not going to win Minnesota, he's not going to win Michigan.

And in Ohio, it is amazing. It's amazing that it is closed as it is. And if it wasn't, he wouldn't have been in Circleville today. A little town just south of Columbus. So, think about Ohio, Wolf, as a hockey stick, you know, that western part of the state, along with the southern part of the state, and you heard a lot of this from John King. In the southern part of the state, they have to have a very big turnout for Trump to win. Because the reason down in the southern part of the state is there aren't as many people down there. Western side of the state will give him a good numbers, but his challenge is the rest of the state, you know, the middle, and here in Columbus in Central Ohio.

And I think John hit on a very important point, and that is in Cleveland, the African-American turnout, will the African-American voters come out? It's almost -- in some respects, not the same, not quite the same as Philadelphia, Philadelphia kind of runs the state of Pennsylvania and a lot of respects, and it's about the African- American turnout. That's why you saw Barack Obama appearing there at a speech. He also delivered his speech for the convention in Philadelphia.

So, when you look at Cleveland, you know, is the African-American turnout going to be there? It's all in Ohio going to be about turnout. And frankly, you know, it's sort of shocking that it's this close. And we're just a few days away. And the President is now visiting states that he shouldn't have to visit, they should be in his column, and they're actually not.

BLITZER: Ohio is, you know, better than most, right now, is in the middle of one of the country's worst COVID spikes. Will that be a deciding factor in these final 10 days? Because the president, in all of his campaign speeches today, he's continuing and it's hard to believe to downplay this very deadly pandemic.

KASICH: Well, Wolf, as you know, the virus itself is as our seniors very, very concerned, and when he -- when he has rallies like this, and they don't wear masks, and he tries to downplay it, it doesn't help him with our seniors. It also doesn't help when he attacks Biden as being too old, because the seniors don't like to be thought of that way.

But the other problem that Donald Trump has in Ohio, and we saw this in the 2018 election, the suburbs, he doesn't do well in the suburbs. I mean, here in Central Ohio, there is a real fear among Republicans that there's going to be a tsunami coming and so that's the suburbs.

But beyond the suburbs, there's great concern there that he's losing that support as well. So, you have the western side of the state that's going to give him strong support, the southern part of the state that's going to give him strong support. The question is, does the rest of the state -- did those people vote in great numbers and what happens in the rest of the state?

And, you know, early voting is unbelievable and overwhelming here. So, I call it too close to call. I was saying that I thought Donald Trump would win. You know, I kind of think he still will, but I wouldn't bet any money on that. I think it's possible that Joe Biden could win Ohio.

BLITZER: He still attracts huge crowds at these rallies, even though they're dangerous and people aren't wearing masks and there's no social distancing. But the crowds are very large, very enthusiastic as they were four years ago, and it turned out that they were indicative of very narrow winds in several key battleground states.

KASICH: I think, Wolf, you have to be very, very careful when you look at crowds. I remember being with Mitt Romney, down in the Western part of the state, the crowd was enormous, the enthusiasm through the roof, and I remember leaving that night thinking you know what, I think he's going to win. Well, he didn't.

So, it's very difficult to judge where we are. You got to look at the polling and the polling from legitimate pollsters. And right now, they're saying right now in this state is too close to call. So, yes, I will say that his supporters and you had a piece on just, you know, a couple minutes ago. His supporters are strong and they're loud. The question is, how many of them are there at the end of the day?

[20:45:11]

BLITZER: We will find out in 10 days indeed, very close in Ohio right now. Governor Kasich, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

KASICH: I'll see you very soon again, Wolf. Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

On tomorrow's CNN Original Series, "First Ladies," we explore how Eleanor Roosevelt's desolate childhood, so the scenes of a life devoted to standing up for the poor and the dispossessed. By the time that Eleanor Roosevelt reached the White House, she was at the forefront of efforts to ease the suffering caused by the Great Depression and a leader for the campaign for civil rights and that made her a target. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Ku Klux Klan, they eventually put a price on her head, $25,000 if you could kill Eleanor Roosevelt. So, this was criticism on steroids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We ask every citizen to immediately report any information regarding espionage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But Eleanor's most powerful opponent is the head of the FBI.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first entry into her FBI file by J. Edgar Hoover who hated her guts, is her support for civil rights, that for him is the most un-American.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The file is about 3,500 pages long. It could fill a whole file cabinet top to bottom. The earliest document in it is from 1924. Every word on behalf of justice for black people was considered communist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Be sure to tune in for the "First Ladies," that airs tomorrow night 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Russia initially said it has already developed a vaccine for the coronavirus, but now it seems Russia is lagging behind Western vaccine makers. We have new information. We'll share it with you when we come back.

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[20:50:58]

BLITZER: As countries around the world race to develop a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine, CNN is learning that Russia, despite appearing to be first, may actually be behind Western vaccine makers. CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Wolf. When the Russians certified their vaccine, Sputnik V, in the summer of this year without that vaccine, actually going through the main phase three trials for safety and efficacy, they were essentially trying to show that Russia was ahead of the international competition as far as vaccine making is concerned.

Now, the Russians actually have entered those phase three trials, but the data shows that they're actually pretty far behind a lot of the big Western vaccine makers, and that Russian vaccine is still only available to a tiny fraction of the population in this country.

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PLEITGEN: As Russia deals with a major spike in new coronavirus infections, despite having already approved two vaccines for emergency use, the head of the Gamaleya Institute in charge of the development of the most prominent vaccine, Sputnik V, tells us it could take up to a year for the majority of Russians to get shots as production sites are still in the process of going online.

ALEXANDER GINTSBURG, HEAD OF GAMALEYA INSTITUTE: The planned capacity of these four sites by the next year should reach about five million doses per month, which will allow 70 percent of our population to be vaccinated with this vaccine within nine, 10, to a maximum of 12 months.

PLEITGEN: Russia certified the Sputnik V vaccine with great fanfare in August, after testing it in only a few dozen people. The move hailed as a major PR victory for Vladimir Putin as Russia claims to be outpacing Western pharma firms.

But in current large phase three trials, Sputnik V is lagging well behind Western vaccine candidates, Sputnik V's makers telling CNN only about 6,000 participants have so far received the two doses necessary to achieve complete immunization and start collecting data, compared to almost 30,000 in some large Western trials.

All this as Russian state T.V. is trashing the U.K.'s vaccine candidate calling it quote a monkey vaccine, despite the fact that Russia itself has made a deal to produce this very vaccine under license. The head of Russia's Direct Investment Fund, which is bankrolling Sputnik V claiming Moscow's vaccine is superior because it uses so called human adenovirus technology.

KIRILL DMITRIEV, RUSSIA'S DIRECT INVESTMENT FUND: So, we decided to choose something already existing, something already safe, something already proven, and many people on the West -- on the west fail to think about this.

PLEITGEN: But even the Sputnik vaccines instruction say it's only indicated for people 18 to 60 and not for people with some allergies and illnesses, leaving out older age groups and people with health conditions some of the most vulnerable to severe cases of COVID-19.

The head of the Gamaleya Institute told CNN the vaccine simply hasn't been tested in older people, but he believes the elderly and people with pre-existing conditions can still take it.

[20:55:03] GINTSBURG: With many chronic diseases, in particular people with diabetes, it is not just that it is carried out, it is prescribed to vaccinate people because these are risk groups that need to be protected, obese people, people with cardiac diseases, these are all chronic diseases as we know you need to vaccinate.

PLEITGEN: Russia says it will soon ramp up production of Sputnik V to vaccinate more medical workers and other high-risk groups. A move Konstantin Chumakov, a top vaccine expert at the Global Virus Network called dangerously risky.

KONSTANTIN CHUMAKOV, GLOBAL VIRUS NETWORK: So -- and I think that there is a reason why they call it the Russian roulette, this is exactly it.

PLEITGEN: One Russian who isn't taking the Sputnik V vaccine, so far, is the President Vladimir Putin. His spokesman telling CNN Putin is quote, thinking about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: And, Wolf, on Friday, we asked the Kremlin once again whether or not Vladimir Putin had taken that vaccine and they confirmed that he still has not. Spokesman for the Kremlin saying that once the Russian president does take the vaccine, he himself will inform the public, so we're waiting to see when that will happen. Wolf.

BLITZER: Very interesting indeed. Fred Pleitgen in Moscow for us. Fred, thank you very much.

The president of United States out on the campaign trail, today, once again, downplaying, yes, downplaying the severity of the coronavirus pandemic. This despite a new record of new daily cases of the coronavirus in this country, more than 83,000 confirmed coronavirus cases on Friday. That's a record. We're live on the campaign trail when we come back.

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